Develop Bugs

Touch Pro 2 or iPhone 3GS?

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I have been a long time Windows Mobile user and I've had the SX66, Dopod, Kaiser and I've bought a Tilt2 from eBay (haven't received it yet).
I'm thinking of switching to an iphone mainly because of the amount of good software it has; There are apps to manage wordpress blogs, joomla admin apps, sugarcrm applications to manage customer relations. It seems that it can get a lot more done on the iPhone than the Windows Mobile.
On the Windows Mobile platform, you tend to fiddle with ROM updates, setting up your device so that "hopefully" this time it will work fast and smooth only to discover you need another ROM flash to fix new things.
Software has been disappointing on the Windows Mobile platform, but maybe the Marketplace will change all that...I know I might get a different opinion, so what would you have to say being a Windows Mobile user?

Most of the so-called "good software" that the iPhone has is a replacement for webpages.
The Facebook iPhone app? http://m.facebook.com.
Manage a WordPress blog? Correct me if I'm wrong (which I doubt, I administer my own WordPress) but doesn't WordPress have a WebGUI you should be able to access from your phone's web browser?
The best thing about the Windows Mobile platform is that it's Windows. Microsoft doesn't try and lock down development, they don't try and lock down the apps that you can run, they don't try and lock down fiddling with the OS. You don't have to hope and pray it's in the appstore, because anything that's written for WM you can just drag-and-drop to your phone, run the *.CAB, and it's installed.
There's also the freedom from iTunes (which is the biggest PoS piece of software ever).
WM6.5 has an intuitive, speedy, and finger-friendly interface. There's really no reason to buy an iPhone over a Touch Pro 2 at this point, beyond wanting to be "trendy" (which makes you an idiot, btw).
EDIT: You say you can get "a lot more done" on an iPhone. But how when you can't run simultaneous apps?

Spike15 said:
There's really no reason to buy an iPhone over a Touch Pro 2 at this point, beyond wanting to be "trendy" (which makes you an idiot, btw).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about the fact that it has hugely much more powerful hardware, a capacitive touch screen, better games, and better sound quality when playing music? Or the fact that it has a far superior and much more intuitive UI? Don't get me wrong, I own a TP2, and the iPhone was one of the options I rejected when choosing what to buy; but really, both are excellent devices. The TP2 is aimed more at business users with multimedia an afterthought, while the iPhone is primarily a multimedia device with business use an afterthought; but both are very good at what they do.

It all depends on what kind of person you are and what's important to you..
The iPhone has it's advantages. It is easy to use out of the box, and has a lot of apps for it. The TP2 is close, but not quite there yet. There are less apps and still lots of "old Windows Mobile" holdbacks like small menus (ie. the left and right menus on the menu bar).
The iPhone's screen, being a capacitive screen, is also much more responsive than the TP2's resistive screens. However, the TP2's screen has a higher resolution and IMHO looks much nicer.
What is basically comes down to is, how much do you want to customize your phone?
If you want to change anything about the basic way the iPhone works, you can't. From what I understand, you can't even change the background on your home screen. This may not be the case for jailbroken phones, I'm not sure.
If some kind of snazzy new way of navigating comes out for the iPhone 4G or whatever, you can't upgrade to it. This is not the case for Windows Mobile phones. When WM6.5 came out, I know people that have flashed it to their old HTC touch pro phones. Yes, it takes some technical know-how, but once you do it you can get almost a brand new phone out of it.
The iPhone's browser is better than Opera, but it's pretty close now. And when a new browser comes out, you can use it on your TP2, whereas with Apply you are stuck with what Apple allows you to have.
I recently bought a Tilt2 for myself and an iPhone for my wife. I am technical, she is not. I care if my phone won't turn on using a specific button, she does not. So there you have it..
Now Android, that's a whole other ballgame

if you are a WM user and even consider of a iphone just go with the Iphone i have neve consider iphone ever...yes i have tried it and know the ends and out of the iphone more than more iphone user but WM is much better.

I am surprise to find that you can run WM6.5 and most likely WM7 on old device like Blue Angel, Prophet etc.
I'll just pretend to argue for a moment:
- It could also mean that the platform itself did not evolve much.
- Platform couldn't evolve much because the software are holding back evolution.
- There are too many Windows Mobile devices, means more QA time to ensure it works on the common hardware / resolutions etc. and less time for innovations.
iPhone; one device, Appstore does the final QA process so that it at least have a good looking icon.
I seriously hope that the Marketplace changes all that in the future, is everyone happy with the window mobile apps and games at this point?

edmondt said:
I am surprise to find that you can run WM6.5 and most likely WM7 on old device like Blue Angel, Prophet etc.
I'll just pretend to argue for a moment:
- It could also mean that the platform itself did not evolve much.
- Platform couldn't evolve much because the software are holding back evolution.
- There are too many Windows Mobile devices, means more QA time to ensure it works on the common hardware / resolutions etc. and less time for innovations.
iPhone; one device, Appstore does the final QA process so that it at least have a good looking icon.
I seriously hope that the Marketplace changes all that in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can run Windows 7 on a 10-year-old PC.
Your "argument" is total trash.

Spike15 said:
I can run Windows 7 on a 10-year-old PC.
Your "argument" is total trash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you mean?

edmondt said:
I am surprise to find that you can run WM6.5 and most likely WM7 on old device like Blue Angel, Prophet etc.
I'll just pretend to argue for a moment:
- It could also mean that the platform itself did not evolve much.
- Platform couldn't evolve much because the software are holding back evolution.
- There are too many Windows Mobile devices, means more QA time to ensure it works on the common hardware / resolutions etc. and less time for innovations.
iPhone; one device, Appstore does the final QA process so that it at least have a good looking icon.
I seriously hope that the Marketplace changes all that in the future, is everyone happy with the window mobile apps and games at this point?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
edmondt said:
How do you mean?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your argument is based around the fact that the newer Windows Mobile OSes can be made to run on older hardware, and supposing that because of that, the platform [Windows Mobile] hasn't evolved that much.
This [your argument] is fallacious because 10 years ago the de facto operating system standard was Windows 98, Windows ME, perhaps Windows 2000.
I recently took a PC from this era, and installed Windows 7 on it. Windows 7 runs slower on this PC than it does on a more modern PC, granted, but it still runs acceptably.
Your argument, therefore, is trash, since most (all?) of the phones we're dealing with in this context, are not so ridiculously old, and therefore it is very plausible that they run a newer OS quite well.

I read this in someone signature today and it is sooooooooo true and fits this thread...
Windows Mobile = Freedom
Apple iPhone = Fascism
I'd give credit but can't remember who...
Basically, if you want someone telling you how your phone should look, operate and preform, go with the iPhone... If you want the freedom to tinker and play with settings, layouts and preformance, Windows Mobile all the way...
Both have the ability to be plug and play devices... If this is how you plan to use it, as is, then go iPhone... As you stated, There are way more apps available to the iPhone user... But look out... Some of Microsoft recent developments show that there may still be some fight left in them... With the recent release of MarketPlace, the highly anticipated release of Windows Mobile 7 and Zune integration, it seems they are trying to spark up some competition by following in Apples footsteps...
Microsoft knows they have fallen way behind in the Mobile Phone market, especially when windows mobile is being referred to as a Legacy OS... Now it's time to take action...
Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do...
So, is it the Red Pill or the Blue Pill...? Choose wisely...!!!

Spike15 said:
Your argument is based around the fact that the newer Windows Mobile OSes can be made to run on older hardware, and supposing that because of that, the platform [Windows Mobile] hasn't evolved that much.
This [your argument] is fallacious because 10 years ago the de facto operating system standard was Windows 98, Windows ME, perhaps Windows 2000.
I recently took a PC from this era, and installed Windows 7 on it. Windows 7 runs slower on this PC than it does on a more modern PC, granted, but it still runs acceptably.
Your argument, therefore, is trash, since most (all?) of the phones we're dealing with in this context, are not so ridiculously old, and therefore it is very plausible that they run a newer OS quite well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You also have to consider that just because it is newer does not necessarily mean it requires more power. Development can improve power and performance, but do not forget that development can improve efficiency as well.

I will also note that I got my tp2 yesterday. Third windows mobile phone after a Mogul and a TP1. The TP2 is -VERY- similar to the tp1, which I expected, being that they have the same OS. I will have to concur with everything that has been said defining the differences so far in this thread.
I am a manager at a sprint store and -ALWAYS- describe windows mobile phones as the free-est (is that a word?) experience out of any phone I have owned. The countless modifications you can perform overwhelm any other smartphone I have owned [iPhone, Palm Pre, HTC Hero(which rocks too)] There is almost no limit to what you can customize in your WinMo device.
This also has its drawbacks. People who want a cookie cutter, out of the box, cool device should stick to an iPhone or a Palm Pre. Those who have the know-how and the desire to tweak their device should lean toward a windows mobile device. Apples and Oranges imo.
Good luck, I know you will enjoy whichever device you decide to use.

I've been a WinMo man since 2005, when I got my Dell Axim. When the Axim was obviously dying, I decided to be open-minded and gave the iPhone a try (borrowing it from a friend) before settling on HTC TP2.
I have to say I really liked iPhone for its consistency. You only need a finger a button, and after a couple of minutes you've figured out when to use which. Graphics performance is outstanding: you drag a picture or map and it stays glued to your finger without any sign of jerkiness. And generally, everything works the way it's supposed to.
By contrast, with TP2 there is no such consistency. You start off with your finger and after a while get annoyed and pull the stylus out, then after a minute you realize you need a keyboard and pull out that one too. Then you get bored of landscape mode and shove the keyboard in, then you put the stylus back in only to pull it out a minute later (iPhone is much easier to operate with one hand than TP2). And of course it takes a lot of effort to make many things run the way the're supposed to.
Ultimately, I got TP2 for many reasons: I didn't want to be a slave to Apple, I didn't want to be a slave to iTunes, and the fact that AT&T network sucks didn't help. There is so much more you can do with Windows Mobile: with a little patience, you can customize almost anything. There is a wealth of free applications that offer really important functionality, and it doesn't feel like somebody is trying to control every one of your steps.
So I just have to agree with the others: for a lay user iPhone is the better choice but if you are technically inclined WinMo devices are more interesting and offer way more opportunities.

NilRecurring said:
I have to say I really liked iPhone for its consistency. You only need a finger a button, and after a couple of minutes you've figured out when to use which. Graphics performance is outstanding: you drag a picture or map and it stays glued to your finger without any sign of jerkiness. And generally, everything works the way it's supposed to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must have better hand-eye co-ordination than everyone, but I never pull out the stylus unless I'm hand-writing notes ( :3 ) or I'm using regedit.
The only time I miss buttons is when I'm trying to select a new artist / song from the list in Windows Media Player while driving.
And seriously, when you're watching the road and operating a touchscreen out of the corner of your eyes...the icons could be the size of Texas...you'd still miss...

NilRecurring said:
By contrast, with TP2 there is no such consistency. You start off with your finger and after a while get annoyed and pull the stylus out, then after a minute you realize you need a keyboard and pull out that one too. Then you get bored of landscape mode and shove the keyboard in, then you put the stylus back in only to pull it out a minute later (iPhone is much easier to operate with one hand than TP2). And of course it takes a lot of effort to make many things run the way the're supposed to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prefer to think of the stylus and keyboard as advantages. Texting/reading emails/writing emails while driving is a terrible idea. Like most terrible ideas, I have done it before. A lot. Having used a Mogul and Touch Pro before a Palm Pre, an iPhone, a Hero and a Samsung Moment, I find myself reaching for the stylus occasionally for the increased accuracy. I cannot stand even the most intuitive touch screen keyboard. I hate the Mogul, Touch Pro, Touch Pro 2, iPhone, Hero and Instinct virtual keyboards equally. Having to slide out the keyboard? I am grateful that this advanced, useful and stylish equipment allows me that convenience.

warrenmrogers said:
I am grateful that this advanced, useful and stylish equipment allows me that convenience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am equally grateful.
However, I'm enraged that the HD2 won't offer this...
>_>

i've been using winmo devices since 2004 when i bought a motorola mpx200 and i've been using windows since 3.1, i've used every windows in both platforms until then. the thing i can say about windows in general is it is evolving indeed. you can't even compare a win 3.1 or even 95 with xp or especially with 7 imo and same goes for wm 2003 and 6.5.
saying windows isn't evolving based on it can be run by older devices is just dumb (no offence intended) being a former computer science engineering student i can say that the most important thing our instructors were telling us was when you programme improve your coding to require less ram and cpu power and modulate. especially win 7 does this perfectly. so it is basicly good programming rather than a not evolving platform.
about iphone vs tp2, i prefer tp2. i've used my friends' iphone 2g and 3g (i even jailbreaked and unbricked 2g actually and tried to teach how to use the 3g to the other one so you can say i tampered with both of them for a pretty good time) i truly hated both of them. i am not saying this because i want to trash iphone i understand why some people may like it but it is just no good for me. simple example: when i went into the settings i was like "what this is it??" and no multitasking? thanks but no thanks.
let's return to good programming and not evolving issue for iphone. iphone 2g os was ~250 mb, our HTC wm6.5 is what 175 mb custom roms are 130-140 mb. the nice things iphone does are because of its larger os. what apple is doing is just putting an enormous os to a phone and expecting their fast cpu to be able to handle it. i don't know about 3g s but the others weren't handling it so much imo. that's why it has no multitasking i guess, because it is barely handling the os.
and not evolving? let's take a look at iphone history. what's is the difference between 2g-3g and 3g s again? i am so glad it can now copy-paste and take videos btw (can't remember how long i've been doing these with a winmo phone). maybe even some day apple releases a 3g-sx or something and iphone users can even use video call
conclusion is you may like iphone i don't iphone has its advantages tp2 has its own but let's not be silly by saying win platform is not evolving because it can be run by older devices especially when iphone's "evolving" is well known

Why do these iPhone/Touch Pro2 comparisons keep coming up? They each have their advantages and disadvantages just like the Macs and PCs. This is a TouchPro2 forum, so obviously the bias will be towards the TouchPro2. There are numerous threads already on this. You like to play games, get the iPhone. You want your phone for business, get the TouchPro2.

One thing I really miss on TP2 is scroll buttons I had on my Axim. Now, iPhone doesn't have them either, but I found its finger scrolling works much better than on TP2. I often view pages in landscape just to make use of page up/page down buttons. I tried VolDPad to configure the volume buttons for scrolling but it's very buggy and the volume buttons are not too comfortable for scrolling anyway. BTW, what I liked best about myTouch was the trackball (you don't know what you're missing until you've tried it), but that's for another discussion.

warrenmrogers said:
I am a manager at a sprint store and -ALWAYS- describe windows mobile phones as the free-est (is that a word?) experience out of any phone I have owned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Compared to Apple, Microsoft is much more open and less intrusive. Apple has already become an evil empire, and Google seems to be going there.

Windows Phone 7 Series unleashed !!!!!! Its live!!!!

Yeah windows phone 7 is now reality its shown i mean is being showing right now....
Awesome
[16/2/2010] Hello, All as you all might have know that there are different hubs in Windows Phone 7 series. So what do you think about this hub idea? To what extent did you liked it, Share your thoughs opinions etc... Those people who dont know what is this hub, here is a quick intro :
"Windows Phone 7 Series creates an unrivaled set of integrated experiences on a phone through Windows Phone hubs. Hubs bring together related content from the Web, applications and services into a single view to simplify common tasks. Windows Phone 7 Series includes six hubs built on specific themes reflecting activities that matter most to people."
There are total 6 hubs namely:
1. People
2. Pictures
3. Games
4. Music + Video
5. Marketplace
6. Office
Also what is you opinion about the new marketplace hub for windows phone 7 series, its looking great here.
Latest update via techz.in
4:08PM Everything not explained today will be available on the MIX next month, might be more exicting than the MWC2010.
4:08PM David Christopher from AT&T is now talking about how he thinks Windows Phone will be great and how AT&T will help launching Windows Phone 7.
4:10PM Now Olaf Swantee from Orange on stage. Orange released the first ever smartphone to run Windows Mobile in the US.
4:12PM “Windows Phone 7 will not be just a product, but this is a whole new way to work with our partners.”
4:14PM Steve Ballmer is now talking about how ‘7′ might be their lucky number. Windows 7 was great and he hopes that Windows Phone 7 is just as great, or even better.
4:15PM “Windows Phone 7 Series will be available this holiday season, 2010.”
4:16PM “And with that, I want to wrap up. We hope you enjoy the conference.”
4:17PM Now time for questions, trying to keep up with those, but will be difficult!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Questions on the conference:
Question: “Other developers provide free software, will Microsoft ever stop charging a license fee?”
Answer: We are a software company, not a hardware provider. We sell software, not the hardware, that’s our business model. (Short: No)
Question: “If you want to provide consistency to the device, how are you gong to allow partners to differentiate themselves?”
Answer: Consistency in the OS can coexist with different applications in the operation. Partners will be able to divers themselves by making different applications to add in the operating system. (Steve Ballmer) I got that same question when we went from Dos to Windows, we brought more consistency and people thought it wouldn’t allow partners to differentiate themselves. Look now, how many different PC’s are sold, not one of them is equal!
Question: “Will you support Flash 10.1 in any way on Windows Phone 7?”
Answer: Out of the box Windows Phone 7 will not support Flash. (Steve Ballmer) WE have NO OBJECTION against Flash, it’s just that it’s not ready.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For those who cant stream it live coz of slow internet can read Live minute to minute coverage here.

Well as I can see, no multitasking, no cab installation, even no file explorer.... that thing is just for the consumers.

very bad ...they have should included all this in the current windows mobile...

Nice Iphone

What about the windows 7 OS? This looks like "project pink" which I really dont care about.

So, all rumors are correct. You also have to use the Zune software. Well, as for the interface, it's better than iPhone.

Lots of disappointments
Anywyas now Steve Ballmer is back on stage..

I think I gonna stay a long time on wm6.5

ceesheim said:
I think I gonna stay a long time on wm6.5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 Although i will be sticked with wm 6.5.3 i really wish that we keep getting some new builds but microsoft may stop as wm 7 announced

But why are so dissapointed? I haven't heard anything about lack of multitasking or any other restriction when comparing to WM 6.5? Did I miss something?

Good times. I think the worst thing that can happen here is for purist (us) to leap to conclusions about what the new OS does and doesn't do without any valid information to support it. This OS is still 5-7 months away from hitting your ear and its not like they demo'd the device in its entirety yet. So instead of saying "No this No that..." or "oh its like the Iphone" lets wait and see. You've waited this long, no point in jumping ship till we see what this phone can really do. I own a Zune HD and I'm extremely happy with it....this OS looks similar so expect it to take full advantage of those snapdragons and Tegra chipsets. Don't sell M$ short yet...The Iphone and Android proved how its possible to run a tightly integrated App store, WM6+ showed how its possible for the end user to run its own app store (this site as well as others) its a fine line M$ has to walk with 7 and its all about pleasing the majority. Plus think of things this way; why do we need 10 different lock screen apps, 9 music player apps, 15 Contacts apps, 100 Homescreen replacement apps, 5 calendar Apps, 10000 basic Tweak apps...etc? Its because Winmo was bland, terrible white screens, slow loading, and generally outdated and plain ugly. This doesn't look to be the case now. If M$ gets it right (which its looking like they are going for gold) then you won't need it.
To prove the point...(and I hate to mention it but) the Iphone, simple UI and it just works, so now the user only has to focus on what Apps do they feel like downloading as opposed to (us) who have to think or find apps that replace basic system functions and screens. The Moral is, when you do it right the user doesn't have to focus on making it functional only making it personal. That seems to be the route M$ is taking here. We'll see when all is said and done. But lets just be objective about this whole thing...we wanted change we got it, now we gotta see if its worth it
~style~

Actually you are right in questioning that point. It hasn't been mentioned at all! Furthermore because the tiles are 'live', some form of multitasking must be present, since 'Hubs' can be added later it is safe to assume those 'Hubs' will also be capable of having updated tiles. It can just be that there is a central 'update service' where you need to register your application to and so it will udate, but it can also be there is some form of multitasking.
Also there has been completely nothing about restrictions compared to Windows Mobile. Even more than that, when at the end questions where asked Steve Ballmer answered about the ability to develop applications for it.
So without further information I see absolutely nothing that restricts this operating system more than WinMo 6.5.x.
pilgrim011 said:
But why are so dissapointed? I haven't heard anything about lack of multitasking or any other restriction when comparing to WM 6.5? Did I miss something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can like the interface or hate it, but nothing has been mentioned about developing applications or anything.
This is a sum of what we do know:
- New UI
- Zune Software Integrated
- Live Tiles
- 'Hubs' that connect to multiple sites
- You can develop applications for it (and maybe 3rd party 'Hubs')
Here is what we don't know:
- Nothing about multi-tasking
- Nothing about applications on the device
Here is what we expect:
- Applications from WinMo 6.5.x will not work, as mentioned 'a new set of tools for developing will be ready for our partners soon'.

jagan2 said:
+1 Although i will be sticked with wm 6.5.3 i really wish that we keep getting some new builds but microsoft may stop as wm 7 announced
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 although 6.5.5,
NO, of course I'm gonna try 7 series........... (BMW ;-)

style1 said:
Good times. I think the worst thing that can happen here is for purist (us) to leap to conclusions about what the new OS does and doesn't do without any valid information to support it. This OS is still 5-7 months away from hitting your ear and its not like they demo'd the device in its entirety yet. So instead of saying "No this No that..." or "oh its like the Iphone" lets wait and see. You've waited this long, no point in jumping ship till we see what this phone can really do. I own a Zune HD and I'm extremely happy with it....this OS looks similar so expect it to take full advantage of those snapdragons and Tegra chipsets. Don't sell M$ short yet...The Iphone and Android proved how its possible to run a tightly integrated App store, WM6+ showed how its possible for the end user to run its own app store (this site as well as others) its a fine line M$ has to walk with 7 and its all about pleasing the majority. Plus think of things this way; why do we need 10 different lock screen apps, 9 music player apps, 15 Contacts apps, 100 Homescreen replacement apps, 5 calendar Apps, 10000 basic Tweak apps...etc? Its because Winmo was bland, terrible white screens, slow loading, and generally outdated and plain ugly. This doesn't look to be the case now. If M$ gets it right (which its looking like they are going for gold) then you won't need it.
To prove the point...(and I hate to mention it but) the Iphone, simple UI and it just works, so now the user only has to focus on what Apps do they feel like downloading as opposed to (us) who have to think or find apps that replace basic system functions and screens. The Moral is, when you do it right the user doesn't have to focus on making it functional only making it personal. That seems to be the route M$ is taking here. We'll see when all is said and done. But lets just be objective about this whole thing...we wanted change we got it, now we gotta see if its worth it
~style~
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this sounds so iphonish! Of course we WANT to change it even if it's already working properly. if I want a simply but working UI then I can switch back to my old Nokia phone with a proprietary UI on which you can't even change colors.....
Sure MS need to look at the mass market and introduce a new user experience, but hopefully they still leave their OS customizeable like before (or even further)
Besides that I'm very curious about the prof./business edition of WM 7. Because business people won't need all this facebook, zune, xbox fanciness....

WM7 looks pretty nice, looking forward for the new devices. I love my ZuneHD, now with phone... Amazing

We have to wait for more info. What I heard in that presentation is that WM6.5 will be developped side by side with WM7, don't know for how long. So I can assume that WM6.5 will be the bussiness version and WM7 iPhone version. If this is the case I will stick to 6.5 too. Facebook and other social networks and what I saw in presentations are useless for me. SenseUI already integrates mails with SMS and agenda and this is all I need so far.

style1 said:
Good times. I think the worst thing that can happen here is for purist (us) to leap to conclusions about what the new OS does and doesn't do without any valid information to support it. This OS is still 5-7 months away from hitting your ear and its not like they demo'd the device in its entirety yet. So instead of saying "No this No that..." or "oh its like the Iphone" lets wait and see. You've waited this long, no point in jumping ship till we see what this phone can really do. I own a Zune HD and I'm extremely happy with it....this OS looks similar so expect it to take full advantage of those snapdragons and Tegra chipsets. Don't sell M$ short yet...The Iphone and Android proved how its possible to run a tightly integrated App store, WM6+ showed how its possible for the end user to run its own app store (this site as well as others) its a fine line M$ has to walk with 7 and its all about pleasing the majority. Plus think of things this way; why do we need 10 different lock screen apps, 9 music player apps, 15 Contacts apps, 100 Homescreen replacement apps, 5 calendar Apps, 10000 basic Tweak apps...etc? Its because Winmo was bland, terrible white screens, slow loading, and generally outdated and plain ugly. This doesn't look to be the case now. If M$ gets it right (which its looking like they are going for gold) then you won't need it.
To prove the point...(and I hate to mention it but) the Iphone, simple UI and it just works, so now the user only has to focus on what Apps do they feel like downloading as opposed to (us) who have to think or find apps that replace basic system functions and screens. The Moral is, when you do it right the user doesn't have to focus on making it functional only making it personal. That seems to be the route M$ is taking here. We'll see when all is said and done. But lets just be objective about this whole thing...we wanted change we got it, now we gotta see if its worth it
~style~
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We need all of those things because each of is different. Granted you are righ that this in part to the lack of updating of WiMo but we are all individuals. Each of us have our own preference of what we want out of our devices and forums like this fufill these needs. For example, I may like the pure power of the HD2 but hate the homescreen. There are options out there like WAD, Homescreen++, andriokid amoung others. My point is that we all dont want to be in put the box that "this phone will do everything you want" becuase the fact of the matter is that can never happen. So give us power and we will take it from there.

Each and every feature of wp (Windows Phone) 7 is rocking. I was only disappointed of the lack of multitasking but after a good explaination by kilzone i can now show more love to wp 7 . Great ui now the phone will be more than for calling.

i the the day the first picture and think... "Oh no its a Zune" :-(
I hope the Professional Edition will look like a Phone.

ladies and gentleman... the Microsoft iPhone. social-centric UI for newbies, no customizations, no old appz...
holy crap
android here I come

Windows Mobile 7 Hands on

Hey Guys
Video and Piccies
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7-series-hands-on-and-impressions/
http://www.slashgear.com/windows-phone-7-series-hands-on-1573973/
It doesn't look to be more hardware challenging than sense + wm 6.5.3 .... I wonder if they changed the boot-loader requirements much

Well... I thing it's time to give a try to "you know who... Harry".... (iphone) LOL. First impresion, i don't like WM7.

I can't believe that they haven't had a leak of it yet
and if all apps are restricted, android here i come

I can't post links for some stupid reason, but there is a REALLY long video demo on channel 9. It is called:
First-Look-Windows-Phone-7-Series-Hands-on-Demo
just got to "channel9 do msdn dot com" and search for the above.

windows 7
goodbye winmo,hello android,have used winmo for ever,but microsoft have shot themselves in the head this time,instead of the foot as usual.
you can forget cooking roms etc for 7 series,ms are going to lock up os so that folk cannot "improve" the software,ms is bored with htc making them look stupid.
looks almost as if ms have given up on rest of the world and are looking to survive with american market.
a bing hardware button !!,there are only 15 people in the world who use bing and they all work for ms.
x-box and zune support intergrated,cor that should please a few dozen more folk.
this was meant to be the start of great new things,apple etc must be laughing them selves stupid.
series 7 to go up against iphone, winmo 6.5 for enterprise.
looks like most of the rumours of a two os system etc where right..

Note how he skips questions on prompts for lockscreen.
Also how he skips out on showing any of the day to day features and how they will look.
The rep in the slashgear vid also avoids all relevant questions.
TBH consumers and certain sites bemoaned WM6.5 for crippling devices like the HD2 and TG01....yet now they are all upset that this is too simple. It is a phone for noddy.
Guys in the media, make up your mind!!!
I hope XDA can come to the rescue of this pos. eye candy only goes so far, but it offers no nutrition that we can use daily.
This is not looking one iota like a business capable device.

Terribly disappointed with Win Phone 7. It's a regular person OS. Completely built around Social Networking with very little appeal to the business user and with ZERO appeal to us tweakers and hackers.
I hate the all text interface. Looks like i'll be sticking with 6.5 for a long time to come.

Time to start saving funds... to buy a new baby capable for WP7S
Hey flar!!! make this **** A News on the XDA portal!!!!
new era for XDA developers! hope all the big masters are now thinking DAMN! this is freaking cool!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdDAeyy1H0A

wow what a waste of RD money. Still very slow and lagging. Looks nothing more then a UI upgrade over wmo6.
I am off to the next google phone!!

Interesting thoughts, but I disagree. Apple isn't laughing. WinMo7 looks aimed straight at Apple’s consumer-dependent heart. So Microsoft is tightening down platform constraints and cooking ROMs may become a thing of the past...when it comes to market share, so what?
Lack of development transparency at the OS level hasn't hurt Apple’s market share. Frankly, it has helped Apple build a tightly integrated consumer appliance that doesn't water itself down by pandering to corner contingent s of users. Apple has proven that extending the platform through application development and NOT allowing customizing the platform is the current recipe for success. WinMo7 is co=opting this recipe, but still allowing far more development flexibility than Apple does.
Realize that the real play in Mobile is about the consumer experience…this is why your complaints about Bing, Zune, etc. don’t make any sense. These functions are usage enablers, just like Google Maps and the iTunes are on the iPhone. No one cares about the brand; they care what they can do with the device. If I can do everything as slickly on a WinMo7 device that I can do an iPhone, do I really care if I am using Google or Bing? End-to-end, WinMo7 is going right at the core of the iPhone consumer value prop, while providing a more open platform that far more robust than the iPhone and still enables all of the Enterprise scenarios with ActiveSync and Exchange Policy integration
Sure, WinMo7 is no Android; in terms of open source code or ROM customization, Android will be the new king. But WinMo7 doesn't need to be and if anything, WinMo 6.5 has proved that an open platform isn't the ultimate deciding factor for the success of a mobile platform.
While Android will be the most flexible platform moving forward, this doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the ultimate market winner...The only markets this kind of platform is guaranteed to win are those of corner case users like a ROM chef or open source code guru.
tleaf100 said:
goodbye winmo,hello android,have used winmo for ever,but microsoft have shot themselves in the head this time,instead of the foot as usual.
you can forget cooking roms etc for 7 series,ms are going to lock up os so that folk cannot "improve" the software,ms is bored with htc making them look stupid.
looks almost as if ms have given up on rest of the world and are looking to survive with american market.
a bing hardware button !!,there are only 15 people in the world who use bing and they all work for ms.
x-box and zune support intergrated,cor that should please a few dozen more folk.
this was meant to be the start of great new things,apple etc must be laughing them selves stupid.
series 7 to go up against iphone, winmo 6.5 for enterprise.
looks like most of the rumours of a two os system etc where right..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

very good post, thanks a lot!
I'm sure, MS will have success with 7.
kenikh said:
Interesting thoughts, but I disagree. Apple isn't laughing. WinMo7 looks aimed straight at Apple’s consumer-dependent heart. So Microsoft is tightening down platform constraints and cooking ROMs may become a thing of the past...when it comes to market share, so what?
Lack of development transparency at the OS level hasn't hurt Apple’s market share. Frankly, it has helped Apple build a tightly integrated consumer appliance that doesn't water itself down by pandering to corner contingent s of users. Apple has proven that extending the platform through application development and NOT allowing customizing the platform is the current recipe for success. WinMo7 is co=opting this recipe, but still allowing far more development flexibility than Apple does.
Realize that the real play in Mobile is about the consumer experience…this is why your complaints about Bing, Zune, etc. don’t make any sense. These functions are usage enablers, just like Google Maps and the iTunes are on the iPhone. No one cares about the brand; they care what they can do with the device. If I can do everything as slickly on a WinMo7 device that I can do an iPhone, do I really care if I am using Google or Bing? End-to-end, WinMo7 is going right at the core of the iPhone consumer value prop, while providing a more open platform that far more robust than the iPhone and still enables all of the Enterprise scenarios with ActiveSync and Exchange Policy integration
Sure, WinMo7 is no Android; in terms of open source code or ROM customization, Android will be the new king. But WinMo7 doesn't need to be and if anything, WinMo 6.5 has proved that an open platform isn't the ultimate deciding factor for the success of a mobile platform.
While Android will be the most flexible platform moving forward, this doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the ultimate market winner...The only markets this kind of platform is guaranteed to win are those of corner case users like a ROM chef or open source code guru.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

kenikh said:
Sure, WinMo7 is no Android; in terms of open source code or ROM customization, Android will be the new king. But WinMo7 doesn't need to be and if anything, WinMo 6.5 has proved that an open platform isn't the ultimate deciding factor for the success of a mobile platform. While Android will be the most flexible platform moving forward, this doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the ultimate market winner...The only markets this kind of platform is guaranteed to win are those of corner case users like a ROM chef or open source code guru.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta agree with this.
I Personally dont know what to say about winmob 7. First time viewing the video was a SHOCK. It was soo radically different from what im used to looking at on 6.5 and 6.5.3.
It was nothing like sense either.
I wont say if I hate it or like it yet till I use it, or a zune HD since its nothing like anything Iv used.
It appears as if the business user focus is gone, but perhaps they will show somehow bring it back when they further demo it nxt month.
I will say one thing about winmobil 7, after years of using 6,6.1,6.5 I feel more comfortable using android then win7.
I feel windows Mobil 7 will be wm6.5's successor only in name.

I don't understand what y'all are talking about saying that this will not work for business users?!?! Microsoft is going to have functionality for all of its core business functions (i.e. word, excel, powerpoint, exchange, etc...). Am I to understand that just because a phone has the capability to appeal to the business persons life not just their work, means that it is not business capable?
Is there anything saying that the UI of a, "business" phone has to be bland, boring and lacking any modern interface? Does it have to look like windows 98?
Anyways, sign me up for the pre-order of this thing! I hope the Dell Mini 5 comes with WMSS!!!

Am I the only one who also doesnt give a frazzle about social networking?
I prefer real life updates from people who can be bothered to text or call me and engage in conversation, and I do likewise.
I must be too old fashioned...wait, I'm 23....sign me up to the care home!
Reason why i didnt think it was a business capable device was because it seemed to be so slim on features...and hell we cannot even see the settings screens, or have a way to set someone's callerID picture????
I did notice a mention of 'policies' so perhaps that is the way for XDA to get around WMP7 and its protections.
But yes, most people have depressingly low levels of intelligence and cannot be bothered to find anything like XDA or tract technical waters. Hence iphone, and WMP7 and every other dumbass idea will get market traction.
And it gets traction because it LOOKS finished. WM6.5 never looked finished because even if you made it look perfect you would still know of something else to tweak.
With iphone and WMP7 the philsophy to get market acceptance is simply to lock it down so that people learn to accept what they have whatever it is, to look at the visuals, give up wanting to tweak/personalise/fix, and use the phone....
oh wait...that's almost commendable
Basically - give someone something unfixable and in time they will learn to love it

Ouch. Frankly... that hurts.
I'm not at all a fan of that kind of mashup UI. It looks just like a big non-appealing mess to me. I love Sense, and to me that's what it should have been. W7P seems to be all about a very limited set of tasks aggregated around social networking and stuff that I don't give a damn about.
And to add to it,
http://www.osnews.com/story/22877/Microsoft_Unveils_Windows_Phone_7_Series said:
Screen resolution, aspect ratio, CPU speed, memory, you name it; it's all mandated by Microsoft. Even the button configuration: Start, back, search. That's it. No deviations. Speaking of deviations - no more custom UIs, Microsoft doesn't allow them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So we have no hope of actually getting something different. Sigh...
They didn't even talk or show about the app concept, only core functionality, so it's hard to see what we can expect. So far, it seems that it won't be soon that I'll move away from WM6.5, except that...
http://www.osnews.com/story/22877/Microsoft_Unveils_Windows_Phone_7_Series said:
Windows Phone 7 Series is a clean break. There is no backwards compatibility at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sucks VERY VERY badly. Firstly, the ~8 years of WM development and the great apps it has led to are LOST. Start from scratch again. We're again in the situation with a "dead" platform stuck with limited core funtionality for 2 years until developers start putting out interesting stuff for it.
But where it sucks even more, is that from today on WM6.5 is pretty much dead. Who's going to continue developing apps for something that will disappear in 6 months? So those who will decide to stay with WM6.5 will have to do with what they have now...
I also can't help but feel sorry for some at this point, like Schaps who's about to release something great after years of development... 3 months before the whole platform is wiped.
W7P sucks.
Hopefully by the time I need a new phone android will be mature enough, seeing as after 2 years it only just begins getting decent apps...

this winmo 7 is a s**t!!

As a user of a ZuneHD I am extremely excited about WMP7. The UI on the ZuneHD seems a little strange at first, but once you use it you'll be amazed at how efficient it really is. I think this also bodes well for App development for the ZuneHD.
As far as business use, apparently many of you did not watch the entire keynote this morning. They demonstrated how WMP7 can integrate both your business and personal data while still providing indication of which area the data belongs to. There is also an entire "hub" dedicated to business apps like Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.
For me, this is much much better than anything I expected.

People kept complaining about how little Windows Mobile has changed over the years. I'm glad the new OS turned out like this. Great change compared to the drab legacy that has been dragging on. Also I'm a huge fan of the lack of gloss in the UI and heavy text stylization. Love the Zune HD inspired design and I'm glad I didn't get a Zune HD, so that now I can get a WP7S phone next year.
Also to those worried about settings, page, give the guys a break. They announced the freaking thing TODAY. Over time, we'll see more of WP7.

WoW...everyone is quick to judge !????
I'm a PC..haha...no seriously. Looking at what has come into light in the pulic domain is a fantastic idea / product / OS (yes okay its a zune with phone features).
Everyone who likes windows mobile will have to change thier ways....just like they did with the OS platform like windows 95 / 98 / 2000 / XP / Vista and now Windows 7 and now its the mobile sides turn.
Out with the old 5.0, 6.0, 6.1, 6.5 etc, in with the new....and its a good thing its totally different.
people here may complain that "OH NO...no more TouchFLO".....so WHAT ! my fav company is HTC, and yes there will be an interface which HTC will develop (well they already have...hehe)....just hold on to your pants people....its going to be SUPER ....we just saw the OS and thats it.....MIX10 show will provide you all the details and whats to offer...hello Killer Apps!
What you see in all the videos is an unfinished OS product...there is a reason for this; Samsung, LG, ACER, HTC etc will all have thier input and style, however the base functions stay the same...(Zune, Pictures, XboX,
I can tell you the Phone Dialer (man its ugly) , that WILL change. TXT messages, that will change and some other things....which everyone will see very soon
in the words of a wise guy: http://www.moviesoundclips.net/movies1/transformers/shallow.wav

+ Que PPC said:
Time to start saving funds... to buy a new baby capable for WP7S
Hey flar!!! make this **** A News on the XDA portal!!!!
new era for XDA developers! hope all the big masters are now thinking DAMN! this is freaking cool!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdDAeyy1H0A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read some of the other WM7 threads, well.... not so much "cool", but rather there is a big feeling of disappointment. As I said in a different post, it looks as if a Zune and an Ipod gave birth to.... this thing. If you have the urgent need to let the world know that you are in the middle of taking a big dump, then this is the phone for you

Microsoft to WinMo 6.5 devices: You want WinPho 7? You can’t handle WinPho 7!

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Earlier this week we told you guys that Windows Mobile 6.5 was going to stick around after Windows Phone 7 hits the masses. It would even take on a new name — Windows Phone Classic. With everyone sticking around and playing nice at this party, you’d think that maybe current WinMo 6.5 handsets might get a little Windows Phone 7 love. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Microsoft Mobile Communications Business Director Aaron Woodman told CNET Asia, “I don’t know if any Windows Mobile 6.5 device today meets those specifications.” It sounds like your average Microsoft move: if you want the new software, you’ll also have to get new hardware because your old junk just isn’t gonna cut it, baby.
The new handsets are getting primo parts such as Qualcomm’s 1GHz Snapdragon processor (no Tegra, sorry). WinPho 7, being a fresh OS and more intensive than its predecessors, will undoubtedly need hardware resources that most 6.5 devices just don’t have, but don’t fret. Unlike everyone staying on Windows XP when Vista came out, upgrading to WinPho 7 out of WinMo 6.5 is definitely a move in the right direction. WinMo 6.5 is going to stick around for enterprise and developing countries, so unless you’re tied to the OS for those reasons, I’m sure you wouldn’t mind ditching your current 6.5 handset for a shiny new WinPho 7 device when it comes out.
​

Q&A: Microsoft on Windows Phone 7 Series
CNET Asia
BARCELONA--You didn't hear? Microsoft has at long last announced the Windows Phone 7 Series at Mobile World Congress. Forget whatever impressions you have of the current Windows Mobile operating system as the new 7 Series is unlike anything we've seen. The user interface has been completely reworked to feature live tiles, panoramic screens and enhanced gaming and music experiences. Microsoft knew it had to deliver something with pow at the annual mobile tradeshow, and it did deliver. While the first devices aren't expected until the year-end holiday season, there's still a lot to know about the new software.
The new Windows Phone 7 Series interface looks nothing like its predecessors'.
We sat down with the director of Mobile Communications Business, Aaron Woodman, the general manager for Asia in the Mobile Communications Business, Natasha Kwan, and the head of Mobile Services, Manish Ladha, to discuss everything, from the software to hardware and services.
Windows Phone 7 Series
What is the Windows Phone 7 Series and is there a particular significance with the number 7 or the new naming convention? Do you think the new name will confuse users?
Woodman: There were four big pieces of news yesterday [Monday]. The biggest was Windows Phone 7 Series and all the changes in the product around smart designs, integrated experiences and the Windows Phone hubs. The second was we brought Xbox Live and Zune to Windows Phone for the first time and we will take that internationally. The third was about a specific set of partners, mobile operators and OEMs that have committed to be early launch partners. The last piece of news was on the Q4 holiday time frame launch in time for the seasonal push.
We started changing the brand strategy with Windows Mobile (WM) 6.5. We announced the new brand as Windows Phone and the OS will remain consistent in terms of naming structure, which is Windows Mobile 6.5. That actually was significant for us because it was really the first time we wanted to market software directly to consumers. So we started Windows Phone and we really shipped two products--MyPhone and Windows Marketplace--which helped us start to have a direct relationship with the customer. That was a big step because prior to that, we simply shipped the operating system, while the OEMs and mobile operators had a relationship with the customer. So WM6.5 was a very small incremental step to start that process.
Windows Phone 7 Series is us front center trying to interact with the customers to solve their needs and ultimately taking accountability. I don't think it's confusing. I think it's a change. There are a lot of changes and this is just one of many. In terms of 7, there is no particular significance around 7. There is particular emphasis on Series knowing that we're going to have a selection of phones running a single version of the product.
What took Microsoft so long to publicly announce Windows Phone 7 Series?
Aaron Woodman: I don't know whether I would say it took us so long to announce it. We started to see a pretty significant change in the market place three or four years ago and that was driven by three things. The first was customer expectations. Customers have changed pretty dramatically over the last few years. If you looked at the prices of phones and data plans in the late 1990s and early 2000s, it was the businesses that could afford those. There wasn't a lot of end-consumers out there and usage of the product.
The second was technology--what was fundamentally possible on the device and at what price points. We started to see processors, chipsets and price points of data plans come down pretty dramatically. The third was competition. There are two types of competitors. Vertical competitors are people who have the ability to achieve quality entirely because they have the software and can achieve economies of scale to drive down component prices. And also people integrating data.
These three things came together at a time which brought a lot of emphasis on how we had to change to be competitive. That change started over two years ago with a shift in leadership. The result was a strategy behind the 7 Series. There are not a lot of companies that have the ability to step back from what I would argue was a successful strategy in the mobile phone space. Today, we still sell a ton of phones.
So I don't feel late with it. I always wished I had more innovations sooner, but I think we definitely stepped back, took our time and were willing to make some pretty dramatic changes.
Dramatic it is, since the interface is unlike anything we've seen before. But how do you intend to keep up with the competition since the first devices on the new OS aren't expected until Q4 2010?
Woodman: I think we have a very unique perspective on the business. What we've seen is that most of our competition focuses on just bringing applications to the forefront. They use a very classic design language that we pioneered with a lot of our work on the desktop. Our perspective puts us into a different place because we focus much more on the customer end of the tasks and the ability to complete what you want to do. We fully expect apps to participate in that new design language. That perspective, I would argue, is quite unique to the marketplace today, and that's what results in such a different look and feel of the product. And then we brought some differentiation that I would argue most phone or phone software providers simply don't have. Xbox Live is a social game backbone with a community of over 23 million. That's not something Nokia and Apple has. They need to have a partner to do that and that makes it more difficult to do deep integration.
I would also argue that the search engine and data behind that allows us to do a very unique implementation of things like maps, search and results. If you look at the competition, there is only one provider which has that same product and that's Google. If you look at the music space, we have the PC desktop software and the ability to think about the rich integration between the PC and the phone, and the only one that kind of does that today is Apple. If you start to add these pieces together, you can identify unique competitors like MyPhone, MobileMe and Ovi. As a whole , there are very few people who have these assets. What I can say about our competitors is that they are very respectful and have great products, but I feel very good about my ability to differentiate both in the short and long term.
Why would anyone want to buy a 7 Series device over an iPhone, Android, Nokia or a BlackBerry?
Woodman: I think there are two reasons, and probably the biggest reason is that people will be drawn to the design. I really do think that's the case when you start focusing on things like the task rather than the applications. I think people will be drawn to the fact that they are able to see their information quickly, easily and in a readable fashion. Also, we thought about the design in terms of the motion and transitions where you see things fly in and out in a very dynamic fashion.
The second thing people will be drawn to is the idea of taking the most common tasks and bringing them together. People are a great example where today you really get fragmented in the people experience. And we start to see some people do some very, very lightweight integration of social networking. We think we are going to deliver that in a way that is going to be quite unique.
What operating system does Windows Phone 7 Series run on? Is there a name for it?
Woodman: There's product brand and product line. The brand is Windows Phone and Windows Phone 7 Series is the product line. The OS will be Windows Phone OS 7.
Are the codes different from the current CE codes?
Woodman: Yes, all the software was revisited when we built Windows Phone 7 Series. Nobody felt like an incremental change was going to get us to a point where we felt we would be competitive over the next several years. Across the board, I don't think anyone felt restrained to stay inside our current development model. We'll come back again and talk about that at MIX (a Microsoft Web design/development event) in March.
How can manufacturers differentiate their products?
Aaron Woodman: You'll see mobile operators and OEMs bring differentiation into the software experience through unique access to some tools. That said, you won't see any user experience on top of Windows Phone 7 Series. You won't see any skinning and those sort of things. There is so much fragmentation where the ecosystem is kind of butting heads against the same innovation. You won't see any opportunity for any OEM or third-party app developer to take over the user experience.
Hardware
What has Microsoft done since the acquisition of Danger? Are there any developments on that front and what are the company's plans for Danger?
Woodman: What I will tell you is that the number one thing we got from Danger is really about people and their expertise in the mobile phone space. You'll see a lot of benefits here as we start to think about how to structure hardware and work with hardware partners.
Can you give a straight answer on whether Microsoft will release a consumer phone line?
Woodman: Just answer this straight? [Exasperated laughter] The answer is, I don't really know. And the reason I don't know is we have mobile as a strategy as a company and I will tell you the company is not aggressive in that marketplace. If we felt like there was an opportunity to do something really compelling and different, we would do it. That said, Microsoft has a partner-driven model and we believe in the benefits of partnerships.
What are the hardware specifications Microsoft is laying out for OEMs?
Woodman: We will provide the OS primarily to software developers in March. Every 7 Series device will have a Qualcomm chip. It will be touch-based. There won't be any non-touch, but that's not saying there won't be any keyboard devices, so they will all be touch and capacitive. There is a single aspect ratio. It will have Wi-Fi and GPS and other services which we will talk about soon.
Can the users of the current Windows Mobile software upgrade to the new one when it comes out?
Woodman: I don't know if any Windows Mobile 6.5 device today meets those specifications.
How many 7 Series devices can users expect this year?
Woodman: A billion! No, I don't know. You saw the announcement of the OEMs and it's really up to them in terms of how many devices they release in the different markets.
Windows Mobile 6.x
What happens now to Windows Mobile 6.5, or even 6.5.3? Are you going to completely phase out the current WinMo or will it continue with a different proposition?
Woodman: We don't have a specific timeline for Windows Mobile 6.5. It still has a lot of demand and value for both OEMs and customers today. The reality is that demand will determine the lifespan of Windows Mobile 6.5. So as long as OEMs and customers find value there, we'll continue to support and sell the product.
Are there going to be new devices coming out this year?
Kwan: Yes. When we announced Windows Mobile 6.5 in October last year, we said we will continue to have updates. WM6.5.3 is an update in terms of added feature functionality. In the WM6 platform, there were a lot of legacy applications that were written with the stylus in mind. So we have the magnifier to enhance the touch experience for these apps. We also anticipate 14 new devices out in Asia in the next six months.
Are the target user groups of Windows Mobile 6.5, 6.5.3 and Windows Phone 7 Series different?
Kwan: The target audience is similar. Internally, we call it the life maximizer, but that's really about the 23-35 age group. We are talking about a group of people who are actually quite settled in what they do. They are confident people. They have a lot of priorities to juggle at work and in personal lives. Yet, they also want their phone to be able to help them obtain information to make their decision.
With Windows Phone 7 Series, we have built the OS from the ground up. We really want to take a lot of accountability in the user experience. We want to ensure that we build greater quality and consistency with the phone and have an integrated experience. For WM6.5, it is going to be the platform where we allow OEM partners to continue to have their unique user interfaces. It is also a platform today where a lot of enterprise business apps are being built. More and more, we are seeing that the phone is critical for a lot of these enterprise apps. That's where WM6.5 continues to hold a lot of strength in a managed enterprise environment.
Services
Will the entire suite of Live services be available on Windows Phone 7 Series?
Ladha: We will continue to provide the existing experience even as we go into the 7 Series. It's not really classified as Windows Live, but within the People Hub, there will be updates coming from Windows Live or Facebook. Essentially, it's getting all your communication in one place.
Will there be Live services specific to 7 Series?
Ladha: Xbox Live and Zune are new to Windows Phone 7 Series. On WM6.5, you have Marketplace and MyPhone, and that will continue on for the 7 Series.
...

...
What kind of gaming experience can users look forward to on the 7 Series devices? And what do developers have to look out for?
Ladha: That's still evolving and we will be discussing that in the next conference. You can see your avatars on your Windows Phones. You will get the same experience as on the Xbox, but this question of which games and to what extent is still being defined.
Assuming I have an Xbox and some games, do I have to repurchase the games to play on the handset?
Ladha: The actual mechanics in terms of which games and the payment process will be disclosed at a later stage.
Which version of the IE browser is it?
Ladha: The IE browser on the 7 Series is not really IE7 or IE8 from the PC but is built specifically for the mobile device. Previously, on WM6.5, we had Pocket IE, so it's an evolution of that. But it also has a lot of elements from the IE7 and IE8 in terms of the experience.
What is the name of this IE browser?
Ladha: We are not disclosing that right now.
It was said during the press conference that every 7 Series device is a Zune. Does that mean there won't be anymore dedicated Zune media players?
Ladha: We won't be commenting on that right now. Each and every 7 Series device will have the entire Zune experience in terms of playback and user interface currently available on the Zune HD.
What's the portfolio of Live services?
Ladha: Hotmail, Messenger and Photos are the more popular ones. There's also Spaces, but it's not that prominent. SkyDrive is a very popular service on the PC. However, we have a similar service which is called MyPhone.
It seems there's some duplication of services. Does Microsoft plan to combine them moving forward?
Ladha: I won't call it duplication of features. It's just that on the phone, there is no Windows Live SkyDrive for mobile. Instead, it's MyPhone. So it's ultimately performing the same actions.

my opinion
just microsoft's illusions for forcing people to buying new crapgadgets just for playing with new os.

Sina™ said:
my opinion
microsoft's illusions for forcing people to buying new crapgadgets just for playing with new os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and that will only work with the help of those users who wana change from iphone or symbian and move to winmo7. i doubt power users of android and winmo 6.5.x will prefer much of this new limited environment of winmo7.
with what they think they r providing will be gr8 for end user. i can assure that winmo7 is gonna fall like vista.
winmo 5-6.5.x has never been a sexy OS. it only worked cause most of its users know its power of customization. thats the reason winmo has been living for soo long. without that i doubt they'll b able to sustain much. i may be turned out wrong but this is what i strongly feel.

that's a good news.
microsoft will fail again & people will switch to android or iphone.
but what if xda devs fail to port android to wm 6.xx devices?

Sina™ said:
that's a good news.
microsoft will fail again & people will switch to android or iphone.
but what if xda devs fail to port android to wm 6.xx devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i doubt xda will fail at portin androind. sooner or later they will. like they have done for hd and tp2.

That's right, WP7 might not for power user ... if and only if it is quite limited in terms of customization / tweaking, just like iPhone.
But, it is early to tell that WP7 will fail.
Why?
Because power user is much more limited in terms of numbers compared to regular users.
And dont forget people JUMPING platform from iPhone, Nokia, BB, Android, others to WP7 ... just to try something new or they think it is more attractive.
You cannot rule that out.
Mr. Makk said:
and that will only work with the help of those users who wana change from iphone or symbian and move to winmo7. i doubt power users of android and winmo 6.5.x will prefer much of this new limited environment of winmo7.
with what they think they r providing will be gr8 for end user. i can assure that winmo7 is gonna fall like vista.
winmo 5-6.5.x has never been a sexy OS. it only worked cause most of its users know its power of customization. thats the reason winmo has been living for soo long. without that i doubt they'll b able to sustain much. i may be turned out wrong but this is what i strongly feel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Buying a phone should not be enforcement.
I feel sorry for you if you were forced to buy a phone / gadget
There are choices as you said, iPhone, Android, Nokia, upcoming MeeGo or even Bada OS.
Sina™ said:
my opinion
just microsoft's illusions for forcing people to buying new crapgadgets just for playing with new os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

i dont want new gadgets every year, i want strong 3rd party support like iphone.

Wp7 vs android vs iphone vs...

We have been getting off topic in the advanrtages of WP7 or andriod and iphone. So let's take the discussion to one thread with an all out brawl between the three
With the recent announcement from apple I think Microsoft will have no choice but to throw everything they have at WP7 coming out the gates in order to compete. I think Apple's annoucement of a gamer community was a real low blow and Microsoft's xbox live offering but atleast xbox live can span platforms for right now that keeps an advantage.
vangrieg said:
Me, I love to see things escalating in this market - it just smells great phones! Redmond must be pissed off now - I suspect Apple just stole their show. I suspected something like iPhone's new approach to multitasking in WP7, there are hints this was the plan. I don't feel like its the end of the world for them, they have a lot of patience and recently decided to invest a billion dollars into their mobile platform. Let's not forget that there are advantages and disadvantages to being the first mover, and Microsoft has a lot of information about where others succeeded and failed. Remember XBox? they came late to the party Sony was ruling, but it's all different now.
As regards Android, I wouldn't expect dramatic changes from this side now. It's a successful platform, there's no sense of urgency, and Google usually dramatically reduces investment after initial rapid development. Political issues will prevent platform unification and radical changes in their policies towards OEMs, and there's just too much talk about freedom and openness and all that to reverse the course even a little bit. Especially given that not everyone even sees dangers here.
It's going to be a great year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with all of that. The more competition there is out there the harder all the companies have to work and that is always a plus for the consumer. I predict alot more out of WP7 just because of these announcements from Apple. As far as google goes, the platform is already so open what more can they add? It's about to the point where the only thing they can do is take things away.

I agree. I strongly disapprove of Apple, but this was a slick move. As far as multitasking goes; I always thought Microsoft would probably bring multitasking in an update down the road. My guess is now they are just going to haul ass and get it out with the release. But I still don;t think it will be full 100% multitasking, more like iPhone OS 4.
A big worry I have is that Microsoft will now hurry along with things trying to make WP7 better, and rush it too much. But they still definitely have time to fix some things.
I also agree about Android. My guess is that most of what is done with Android will be done through OEM's and carriers. If phones like the Droid get advertised for the phone's specific qualities, I think Android will continue to see success. Android apps are really picking up, as is the number of devs.
So yeah, when it comes down to it we the consumers will likely have a good (but with some possible pains) year.

Google have already announced that they are slowing down development of the core OS as it's stable, and will concentrate on applications. The whole point of the platform is being a showcase for Google services, and I'm sure we will not only see new apps for Android itself but also ports to other platforms.

Well I don't think Microsoft need to push full multitasking anyway. I believe get letting some services run like how iPhone 4.0 is going to do it is a great way to do it. Why have the whole app run in the background when you just need what you don't actually have to look at run. This could be great for navigation. Still give you turn by turn in the background without have to show the map when you want to look at something else.
I don't think Microsoft will rush a broken SO out the door this time. They've come a long way and Windows 7 prove it. By far, the most complete and stable OS to hit the market for them. I bet they make sure WP7 does the same.

vangrieg said:
Google have already announced that they are slowing down development of the core OS as it's stable, and will concentrate on applications. The whole point of the platform is being a showcase for Google services, and I'm sure we will not only see new apps for Android itself but also ports to other platforms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen some TV's will be powered by android in the future. I think spreading across platforms is really what Google was looking for.

Kloc said:
Well I don't think Microsoft need to push full multitasking anyway. I believe get letting some services run like how iPhone 4.0 is going to do it is a great way to do it. Why have the whole app run in the background when you just need what you don't actually have to look at run. This could be great for navigation. Still give you turn by turn in the background without have to show the map when you want to look at something else.
I don't think Microsoft will rush a broken SO out the door this time. They've come a long way and Windows 7 prove it. By far, the most complete and stable OS to hit the market for them. I bet they make sure WP7 does the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I don't think you're trending MS correctly...XP was great and stable for it's time but it was a fixed version of windows 98. Windows 7 is a fixed version of Vista. MS usually needs a meh product to build upon to actually make a good one, or sometimes 2 meh projects like IE 7 & 8...but IE 9 looks pretty good so far if they can get it out the door within the year anyway.
You could make the arguement that the precedessor of wp7 is the Zune though...but MS is bringing that Zune experience and intregrating it with phone services, it's a way bigger conceptual step than 98 -> XP or Vista -> 7. We'll see how this all plays out as far as stability is concerned though.
I've seen some TV's will be powered by android in the future. I think spreading across platforms is really what Google was looking for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That much is obvious...it's google's business model...produce free stuff, get people to use it...get as much data as you can from the user through their auto-opt-in policies to better target you with Ads. TV is a good market for google to target custom ads to users. But it's this same philosophy that causes me to dislike Google. However, I think that I'd preferr if Google showed me commercials I'm interested in rather than just watching whatever crap commericals the networks felt like showing me...but that's way way in the future, when set-top boxes are more just internet DRM'd devices.

gom99 said:
Well I don't think you're trending MS correctly...XP was great and stable for it's time but it was a fixed version of windows 98. Windows 7 is a fixed version of Vista.
MS usually needs a meh product to build upon to actually make a good one, or sometimes 2 meh projects like IE 7 & 8...but IE 9 looks pretty good so far if they can get it out the door within the year anyway.
You could make the arguement that the precedessor of wp7 is the Zune though...but MS is bringing that Zune experience and intregrating it with phone services. We'll see how this all plays out as far as stability is concerned though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see what you're saying. What I'm trying to put across is that MS is realizing that usability and fluidity is what the market is going towards and away from strict functionality. They are focusing more on ways to make sure programs released for their OS work better because usually when software doesn't work now a days especially on a phone OS the user contributes it to being a bad phone and not just bad software. I think they understand this now and are going to make it happen right out the gate and not have to learn from past mistakes like they did with previous platforms. Of course they'll have to add on to WP7 in their next iterations and we will probably say that's what WP7 should have looked like to begin with but we will continue to say that to anything with an update that adds features. I liked Vista when I used it more so then XP and now I like 7 even better. As long as they are taking strides forward I'm a happy camper along for the ride.

gom99 said:
Well I don't think you're trending MS correctly...XP was great and stable for it's time but it was a fixed version of windows 98. Windows 7 is a fixed version of Vista. MS usually needs a meh product to build upon to actually make a good one, or sometimes 2 meh projects like IE 7 & 8...but IE 9 looks pretty good so far if they can get it out the door within the year anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love it when people who have no idea what they're talking about, try and talk anyway.
1. There were three versions of Windows between Windows 98 and XP: Windows 98 Second Edition, Windows ME, and Windows 2000. Windows 2000 was an exemplary OS, Windows 98SE was a good OS (9.x kernel made everything it touched subpar imo), and Windows ME was a pathetic OS.
2. Vista was fine. The only reason Vista was terrible was because people plugged XP (XP was NT5.1, for reference) drivers into Vista (Vista was NT6.0) and then gnashed their teeth when the OS didn't work properly.
Major kernel revision, you should be praising M$ that the drivers worked at all.
And then there was the fact that Vista was a very forward-thinking OS, and the average consumer-grade hardware at the time wasn't built to maximize Vista's potential. Once your hardware was adequate, Vista out-performed XP. Sure 7 is better than Vista, but that's not the point.
3. IE8 is a good browser. I use it on some of my PCs, and I have no complaints. Obviously there is some issue with standards compliance, but IE8 is a step in the right direction. If the web developers know how to properly take advantage of IE8's doctype sniffing, it's very close to standards complaint. There are a few things it doesn't implement, but for the most part it's pretty good.

Spike15 said:
I love it when people who have no idea what they're talking about, try and talk anyway.
1. There were three versions of Windows between Windows 98 and XP: Windows 98 Second Edition, Windows ME, and Windows 2000. Windows 2000 was an exemplary OS, Windows 98SE was a good OS (9.x kernel made everything it touched subpar imo), and Windows ME was a pathetic OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sigh, if you're going to insult me at least do it correctly.
Windows 2000 was a replacement for Windows NT so it was more business related than general consumer related. Instead of Windows 2000 replacing Windows 98 they released Windows 98 2nd Edition. Yes Windows ME was supposed to replace 98 but it was a failure, but that's just another one of MSes blunders on the way to XP.
XP united the fragmentation of the 2000 line and the ME line. But yes, I guess you're right XP was built from things they learned in 2000, failures of ME, and things people liked from their flagship consumer product at the time which was 98.
Spike15 said:
2. Vista was fine. The only reason Vista was terrible was because people plugged XP (XP was NT5.1, for reference) drivers into Vista (Vista was NT6.0) and then gnashed their teeth when the OS didn't work properly.
Major kernel revision, you should be praising M$ that the drivers worked at all.
And then there was the fact that Vista was a very forward-thinking OS, and the average consumer-grade hardware at the time wasn't built to maximize Vista's potential. Once your hardware was adequate, Vista out-performed XP. Sure 7 is better than Vista, but that's not the point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vista bombed because MS didn't coordinate well with driver manufacturers and it was a buggy launch. And it was a fairly big shift from XP, the shift from vista to 7 is less significant, vista drivers tend to work fine in 7 where as that's not the case in xp -> vista.
Also Vista was a fairly bloated OS. It's memory consumption of core services was higher than windows 7. I can't even imagine Vista running on a netbook.
Vista eventually became a pretty good experience a few months down the line, but it's reputation was sown in, and it was still bloated.
Spike15 said:
3. IE8 is a good browser. I use it on s
ome of my PCs, and I have no complaints. Obviously there is some issue with standards compliance, but IE8 is a step in the right direction. If the web developers know how to properly take advantage of IE8's doctype sniffing, it's very close to standards complaint. There are a few things it doesn't implement, but for the most part it's pretty good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The differences in browsers isn't as significant to the time when ie6 became very dated and things like opera and ff were clearly better for a time. Things are a bit closer, but IE8's javascript support is pretty lacking if you look at benchmarks.
ie9 looks to be much faster than ie8 and it's adding more hardware support for GPUs. Also if ie9 adopts Pivot's zooming scroll bar, that will be an amazing feature.

gom99 said:
Sigh, if you're going to insult me at least do it correctly.
Windows 2000 was a replacement for Windows NT so it was more business related than general consumer related. Instead of Windows 2000 replacing Windows 98 they released Windows 98 2nd Edition. Yes Windows ME was supposed to replace 98 but it was a failure, but that's just another one of MSes blunders on the way to XP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows 2000 was the beginning of the end of Windows 9.x. Sure they released ME after 2000, but 2000 was really the end of Microsoft's dedication to 9.x (as evidenced by ME's performance...).
The only reason that it took so long for the market to shift was because driver manufacturers were deeply entrenched in 9.x and didn't want to develop for the new model that NT presented (which was a lot more restrictive since Windows NT was actually a proper, multi-user, hybrid kernel operating system rather than a single-user, monolithic kernel operating system which allow most (all?) drivers to run in kernel mode.
Windows ME failed (or, at least that's the story) for roughly the same reason. It was an attempt at reforming the Windows 9.x driver model, but instead people just stuck Windows 98SE drivers in it.
I've seen quite a few consumer desktops that were sold with Windows 2000. They're not so plentiful, but they exist, and most of the people who had them swear by them.
gom99 said:
XP united the fragmentation of the 2000 line and the ME line. But yes, I guess you're right XP was built from things they learned in 2000, failures of ME, and things people liked from their flagship consumer product at the time which was 98.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's not really much different between XP and 2000.
gom99 said:
Vista bombed because MS didn't coordinate well with driver manufacturers and it was a buggy launch. And it was a fairly big shift from XP, the shift from vista to 7 is less significant, vista drivers tend to work fine in 7 where as that's not the case in xp -> vista.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While what you're saying about driver manufacturers may be true, I disagree that Vista was a "buggy launch". I replaced XP with Vista (64-bit at that!) the moment it went gold, and never looked back...never had any serious problems with performance or compatibility either.
Now, I have to quantify that. I was running a new PC that was relatively top-of-the-line with hardware from big name manufacturers. Therefore, the driver support was good and the hardware was of the calibre that Vista was designed to capitalize on.
I ran Vista until Windows 7 RC, and in that time had 4 crashes:
3 BSoDs from nVidia drivers (graphics drivers still run in kernel mode... : ( )
1 full system lock-up from a hard drive crash (!)
You can't blame those on the operating system.
gom99 said:
The differences in browsers isn't as significant to the time when ie6 became very dated and things like opera and ff were clearly better for a time. Things are a bit closer, but IE8's javascript support is pretty lacking if you look at benchmarks.
ie9 looks to be much faster than ie8 and it's adding more hardware support for GPUs. Also if ie9 adopts Pivot's zooming scroll bar, that will be an amazing feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll admit that I'm psyched about IE9 -- Microsoft looks like they're fully throwing themselves behind their browser for the first time since IE4 or 5.
As for IE8's JavaScript benchmarks, I don't consider poor benchmarking (and I'll admit that it's poor benchmarking) a lack of support per se. It's still lamentable, but IE in general has a lot more compatibility code than other browsers...trying to maintain/achieve standards compliance while still fully supporting "quirks" mode...
-_-

Spike15 said:
Windows 2000 was the beginning of the end of Windows 9.x. Sure they released ME after 2000, but 2000 was really the end of Microsoft's dedication to 9.x (as evidenced by ME's performance...).
...
There's not really much different between XP and 2000.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I don't know about beginning of the end, since it was meant to run parrallel. Originally they wanted 2000 to replace 98, but it wasn't "there" for consumers yet, so it just replaced NT.
And the differences between 2000 and XP have to do with the consumer items packaged allong with XP as well as full support for things like gaming and such. Since XP was the merger of consumer and business users.
Spike15 said:
While what you're saying about driver manufacturers may be true, I disagree that Vista was a "buggy launch". I replaced XP with Vista (64-bit at that!) the moment it went gold, and never looked back...never had any serious problems with performance or compatibility either.
Now, I have to quantify that. I was running a new PC that was relatively top-of-the-line with hardware from big name manufacturers. Therefore, the driver support was good and the hardware was of the calibre that Vista was designed to capitalize on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even with a top of the line computer if you had the nvidia chipset on your mb, getting Vista at launch was not a good ordeal. The nvidia chipset is no small isolated chipset either. Not every single hardware configuration failed, and some machines did have a good experience with Vista at launch. But a significant portion did not, which cause a bad stigma for Vista.
On top of that, it took significantly more memory just to run a barebones version than XP. I forget the hard numbers, but I think Windows 7 takes half as much ram as vista did.
Spike15 said:
I'll admit that I'm psyched about IE9 -- Microsoft looks like they're fully throwing themselves behind their browser for the first time since IE4 or 5.
As for IE8's JavaScript benchmarks, I don't consider poor benchmarking (and I'll admit that it's poor benchmarking) a lack of support per se. It's still lamentable, but IE in general has a lot more compatibility code than other browsers...trying to maintain/achieve standards compliance while still fully supporting "quirks" mode...
-_-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IE9's success will be determined by how quickly they can release it. Firefox is already working on hardware acceleration too. IE is playing catchup as far as javascript, html5, and css standards are concerened. But if they can get that worked out, and get their hardware acceleration worked out. Extra features with a more pivot like style, and get it out of the door by the end of the year, they'll have a really good product at a really good time.

gom99 said:
Even with a top of the line computer if you had the nvidia chipset on your mb, getting Vista at launch was not a good ordeal. The nvidia chipset is no small isolated chipset either. Not every single hardware configuration failed, and some machines did have a good experience with Vista at launch. But a significant portion did not, which cause a bad stigma for Vista.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had an nVidia chipset, as I had in most of my PCs up until my last one (Intel chipset -- core i7 x58 system), and I had no problems other than those specified.
I think that with operating systems like these though, the first major kernel revision obviously is not going to do as well as the second. With the first you have a major change under the hood, and the end user doesn't really understand why they can't just stuff in their old drivers and be good to go.
Plus, hardware manufacturers are still learning how to properly code for the new model.
Once the second revision comes out, everyone has it figured out. It's not really a fault of the operating system manufacturer, but more a necessary evil of the way things work.

Spike15 said:
I had an nVidia chipset, as I had in most of my PCs up until my last one (Intel chipset -- core i7 x58 system), and I had no problems other than those specified.
I think that with operating systems like these though, the first major kernel revision obviously is not going to do as well as the second. With the first you have a major change under the hood, and the end user doesn't really understand why they can't just stuff in their old drivers and be good to go.
Plus, hardware manufacturers are still learning how to properly code for the new model.
Once the second revision comes out, everyone has it figured out. It's not really a fault of the operating system manufacturer, but more a necessary evil of the way things work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/new...it-paints-picture-of-buggy-nvidia-drivers.ars

M$ didn't coordinate with Driver manufacturers?!?! Come on!! It came out in beta MONTHS before the OS was even released ANYONE could download and try it. The manufacturers are lazy, simple. Is it no surprise that W7 has taken off, because the drivers for vista dont need much change so therefore manufacturers will do it but a large kernel change and manufacturers twiddle their thumbs and blame M$.
I used Vista for years and never had a problem.
Back to the phones!
In order of greatness
Android > iPhone > WM6.5 > WM6.1 > WP7
Android has the best mix of features with eye candy, and WM6.x is... well... windows 3.1 on a phone.

Jamoflaw said:
M$ didn't coordinate with Driver manufacturers?!?! Come on!! It came out in beta MONTHS before the OS was even released ANYONE could download and try it. The manufacturers are lazy, simple. Is it no surprise that W7 has taken off, because the drivers for vista dont need much change so therefore manufacturers will do it but a large kernel change and manufacturers twiddle their thumbs and blame M$.
I used Vista for years and never had a problem.
Back to the phones!
In order of greatness
Android > iPhone > WM6.5 > WM6.1 > WP7
Android has the best mix of features with eye candy, and WM6.x is... well... windows 3.1 on a phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're putting the iphone that high really? Why do you like it? It's fluid sure but its like a fisher price toy in terms of what you can do with it. It's a program launcher with apps. The next release does look better with all the things they are adding but as of now it sucks if you have any ounce of nerd in you.
I'm not sure where WP7 sits as of now because it's not out yet but I've used Android and I currently use WM 6.1 here's my line-up.
WM 6.x>Android>iPhone

Kloc said:
You're putting the iphone that high really? Why do you like it? It's fluid sure but its like a fisher price toy in terms of what you can do with it. It's a program launcher with apps. The next release does look better with all the things they are adding but as of now it sucks if you have any ounce of nerd in you.
I'm not sure where WP7 sits as of now because it's not out yet but I've used Android and I currently use WM 6.1 here's my line-up.
WM 6.x>Android>iPhone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to preface that ranking saying "for advanced users". Even just looking at the side-by-side they have on engadget...wm 6.5 dominates that considering that a few of their "facts" are just taking into account wm 6.5 stock.
But I do like that the iphone added some nice features, even though some of them are hypocritical, but that's apple for you. From what Jobs was saying, I thought Folders were too complicated, and people just liked swiping their fingers through 100 applications.

I wouldn't put iPhone > WM6.5. They're different, though iPhone keeps getting better, WM6.5 not.
Android, of course, beats them all.
Android >> iPhone = WM6.5 > WM6.1 = WP7
Since this thread is going too off-topic, I want to have my own, for my comparison. See here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=6132000#post6132000
Sethos II said:
Here's my comparison between WP7, iPhone OS, Android and WM6.5!
It's been about time that somebody did it.
It's a work in progress, I will add and update things.
Feel free to post your comments, I will consider them for updates to the chart.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

gom99 said:
Well I don't think you're trending MS correctly...XP was great and stable for it's time but it was a fixed version of windows 98. Windows 7 is a fixed version of Vista. MS usually needs a meh product to build upon to actually make a good one, or sometimes 2 meh projects like IE 7 & 8...but IE 9 looks pretty good so far if they can get it out the door within the year anyway.
You could make the arguement that the precedessor of wp7 is the Zune though...but MS is bringing that Zune experience and intregrating it with phone services, it's a way bigger conceptual step than 98 -> XP or Vista -> 7. We'll see how this all plays out as far as stability is concerned though.
That much is obvious...it's google's business model...produce free stuff, get people to use it...get as much data as you can from the user through their auto-opt-in policies to better target you with Ads. TV is a good market for google to target custom ads to users. But it's this same philosophy that causes me to dislike Google. However, I think that I'd preferr if Google showed me commercials I'm interested in rather than just watching whatever crap commericals the networks felt like showing me...but that's way way in the future, when set-top boxes are more just internet DRM'd devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A fixed version of win 98 ?? They dont even run the same file system. They are so different. XP was built off of 2000

ilmar72 said:
A fixed version of win 98 ?? They dont even run the same file system. They are so different. XP was built off of 2000
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Multi-user" and "hybrid kernel" would've been the two biggest changes I would've selected for "they don't even [...]", but to each his or her own...

Spike15 said:
"Multi-user" and "hybrid kernel" would've been the two biggest changes I would've selected for "they don't even [...]", but to each his or her own...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd have to go with you on that one. Win ME and below use hybrid 16/32 kernal while NT+ uses 32. That's a pretty significant change.