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I have been a long time Windows Mobile user and I've had the SX66, Dopod, Kaiser and I've bought a Tilt2 from eBay (haven't received it yet).
I'm thinking of switching to an iphone mainly because of the amount of good software it has; There are apps to manage wordpress blogs, joomla admin apps, sugarcrm applications to manage customer relations. It seems that it can get a lot more done on the iPhone than the Windows Mobile.
On the Windows Mobile platform, you tend to fiddle with ROM updates, setting up your device so that "hopefully" this time it will work fast and smooth only to discover you need another ROM flash to fix new things.
Software has been disappointing on the Windows Mobile platform, but maybe the Marketplace will change all that...I know I might get a different opinion, so what would you have to say being a Windows Mobile user?
Most of the so-called "good software" that the iPhone has is a replacement for webpages.
The Facebook iPhone app? http://m.facebook.com.
Manage a WordPress blog? Correct me if I'm wrong (which I doubt, I administer my own WordPress) but doesn't WordPress have a WebGUI you should be able to access from your phone's web browser?
The best thing about the Windows Mobile platform is that it's Windows. Microsoft doesn't try and lock down development, they don't try and lock down the apps that you can run, they don't try and lock down fiddling with the OS. You don't have to hope and pray it's in the appstore, because anything that's written for WM you can just drag-and-drop to your phone, run the *.CAB, and it's installed.
There's also the freedom from iTunes (which is the biggest PoS piece of software ever).
WM6.5 has an intuitive, speedy, and finger-friendly interface. There's really no reason to buy an iPhone over a Touch Pro 2 at this point, beyond wanting to be "trendy" (which makes you an idiot, btw).
EDIT: You say you can get "a lot more done" on an iPhone. But how when you can't run simultaneous apps?
Spike15 said:
There's really no reason to buy an iPhone over a Touch Pro 2 at this point, beyond wanting to be "trendy" (which makes you an idiot, btw).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about the fact that it has hugely much more powerful hardware, a capacitive touch screen, better games, and better sound quality when playing music? Or the fact that it has a far superior and much more intuitive UI? Don't get me wrong, I own a TP2, and the iPhone was one of the options I rejected when choosing what to buy; but really, both are excellent devices. The TP2 is aimed more at business users with multimedia an afterthought, while the iPhone is primarily a multimedia device with business use an afterthought; but both are very good at what they do.
It all depends on what kind of person you are and what's important to you..
The iPhone has it's advantages. It is easy to use out of the box, and has a lot of apps for it. The TP2 is close, but not quite there yet. There are less apps and still lots of "old Windows Mobile" holdbacks like small menus (ie. the left and right menus on the menu bar).
The iPhone's screen, being a capacitive screen, is also much more responsive than the TP2's resistive screens. However, the TP2's screen has a higher resolution and IMHO looks much nicer.
What is basically comes down to is, how much do you want to customize your phone?
If you want to change anything about the basic way the iPhone works, you can't. From what I understand, you can't even change the background on your home screen. This may not be the case for jailbroken phones, I'm not sure.
If some kind of snazzy new way of navigating comes out for the iPhone 4G or whatever, you can't upgrade to it. This is not the case for Windows Mobile phones. When WM6.5 came out, I know people that have flashed it to their old HTC touch pro phones. Yes, it takes some technical know-how, but once you do it you can get almost a brand new phone out of it.
The iPhone's browser is better than Opera, but it's pretty close now. And when a new browser comes out, you can use it on your TP2, whereas with Apply you are stuck with what Apple allows you to have.
I recently bought a Tilt2 for myself and an iPhone for my wife. I am technical, she is not. I care if my phone won't turn on using a specific button, she does not. So there you have it..
Now Android, that's a whole other ballgame
if you are a WM user and even consider of a iphone just go with the Iphone i have neve consider iphone ever...yes i have tried it and know the ends and out of the iphone more than more iphone user but WM is much better.
I am surprise to find that you can run WM6.5 and most likely WM7 on old device like Blue Angel, Prophet etc.
I'll just pretend to argue for a moment:
- It could also mean that the platform itself did not evolve much.
- Platform couldn't evolve much because the software are holding back evolution.
- There are too many Windows Mobile devices, means more QA time to ensure it works on the common hardware / resolutions etc. and less time for innovations.
iPhone; one device, Appstore does the final QA process so that it at least have a good looking icon.
I seriously hope that the Marketplace changes all that in the future, is everyone happy with the window mobile apps and games at this point?
edmondt said:
I am surprise to find that you can run WM6.5 and most likely WM7 on old device like Blue Angel, Prophet etc.
I'll just pretend to argue for a moment:
- It could also mean that the platform itself did not evolve much.
- Platform couldn't evolve much because the software are holding back evolution.
- There are too many Windows Mobile devices, means more QA time to ensure it works on the common hardware / resolutions etc. and less time for innovations.
iPhone; one device, Appstore does the final QA process so that it at least have a good looking icon.
I seriously hope that the Marketplace changes all that in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can run Windows 7 on a 10-year-old PC.
Your "argument" is total trash.
Spike15 said:
I can run Windows 7 on a 10-year-old PC.
Your "argument" is total trash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you mean?
edmondt said:
I am surprise to find that you can run WM6.5 and most likely WM7 on old device like Blue Angel, Prophet etc.
I'll just pretend to argue for a moment:
- It could also mean that the platform itself did not evolve much.
- Platform couldn't evolve much because the software are holding back evolution.
- There are too many Windows Mobile devices, means more QA time to ensure it works on the common hardware / resolutions etc. and less time for innovations.
iPhone; one device, Appstore does the final QA process so that it at least have a good looking icon.
I seriously hope that the Marketplace changes all that in the future, is everyone happy with the window mobile apps and games at this point?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
edmondt said:
How do you mean?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your argument is based around the fact that the newer Windows Mobile OSes can be made to run on older hardware, and supposing that because of that, the platform [Windows Mobile] hasn't evolved that much.
This [your argument] is fallacious because 10 years ago the de facto operating system standard was Windows 98, Windows ME, perhaps Windows 2000.
I recently took a PC from this era, and installed Windows 7 on it. Windows 7 runs slower on this PC than it does on a more modern PC, granted, but it still runs acceptably.
Your argument, therefore, is trash, since most (all?) of the phones we're dealing with in this context, are not so ridiculously old, and therefore it is very plausible that they run a newer OS quite well.
I read this in someone signature today and it is sooooooooo true and fits this thread...
Windows Mobile = Freedom
Apple iPhone = Fascism
I'd give credit but can't remember who...
Basically, if you want someone telling you how your phone should look, operate and preform, go with the iPhone... If you want the freedom to tinker and play with settings, layouts and preformance, Windows Mobile all the way...
Both have the ability to be plug and play devices... If this is how you plan to use it, as is, then go iPhone... As you stated, There are way more apps available to the iPhone user... But look out... Some of Microsoft recent developments show that there may still be some fight left in them... With the recent release of MarketPlace, the highly anticipated release of Windows Mobile 7 and Zune integration, it seems they are trying to spark up some competition by following in Apples footsteps...
Microsoft knows they have fallen way behind in the Mobile Phone market, especially when windows mobile is being referred to as a Legacy OS... Now it's time to take action...
Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do...
So, is it the Red Pill or the Blue Pill...? Choose wisely...!!!
Spike15 said:
Your argument is based around the fact that the newer Windows Mobile OSes can be made to run on older hardware, and supposing that because of that, the platform [Windows Mobile] hasn't evolved that much.
This [your argument] is fallacious because 10 years ago the de facto operating system standard was Windows 98, Windows ME, perhaps Windows 2000.
I recently took a PC from this era, and installed Windows 7 on it. Windows 7 runs slower on this PC than it does on a more modern PC, granted, but it still runs acceptably.
Your argument, therefore, is trash, since most (all?) of the phones we're dealing with in this context, are not so ridiculously old, and therefore it is very plausible that they run a newer OS quite well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You also have to consider that just because it is newer does not necessarily mean it requires more power. Development can improve power and performance, but do not forget that development can improve efficiency as well.
I will also note that I got my tp2 yesterday. Third windows mobile phone after a Mogul and a TP1. The TP2 is -VERY- similar to the tp1, which I expected, being that they have the same OS. I will have to concur with everything that has been said defining the differences so far in this thread.
I am a manager at a sprint store and -ALWAYS- describe windows mobile phones as the free-est (is that a word?) experience out of any phone I have owned. The countless modifications you can perform overwhelm any other smartphone I have owned [iPhone, Palm Pre, HTC Hero(which rocks too)] There is almost no limit to what you can customize in your WinMo device.
This also has its drawbacks. People who want a cookie cutter, out of the box, cool device should stick to an iPhone or a Palm Pre. Those who have the know-how and the desire to tweak their device should lean toward a windows mobile device. Apples and Oranges imo.
Good luck, I know you will enjoy whichever device you decide to use.
I've been a WinMo man since 2005, when I got my Dell Axim. When the Axim was obviously dying, I decided to be open-minded and gave the iPhone a try (borrowing it from a friend) before settling on HTC TP2.
I have to say I really liked iPhone for its consistency. You only need a finger a button, and after a couple of minutes you've figured out when to use which. Graphics performance is outstanding: you drag a picture or map and it stays glued to your finger without any sign of jerkiness. And generally, everything works the way it's supposed to.
By contrast, with TP2 there is no such consistency. You start off with your finger and after a while get annoyed and pull the stylus out, then after a minute you realize you need a keyboard and pull out that one too. Then you get bored of landscape mode and shove the keyboard in, then you put the stylus back in only to pull it out a minute later (iPhone is much easier to operate with one hand than TP2). And of course it takes a lot of effort to make many things run the way the're supposed to.
Ultimately, I got TP2 for many reasons: I didn't want to be a slave to Apple, I didn't want to be a slave to iTunes, and the fact that AT&T network sucks didn't help. There is so much more you can do with Windows Mobile: with a little patience, you can customize almost anything. There is a wealth of free applications that offer really important functionality, and it doesn't feel like somebody is trying to control every one of your steps.
So I just have to agree with the others: for a lay user iPhone is the better choice but if you are technically inclined WinMo devices are more interesting and offer way more opportunities.
NilRecurring said:
I have to say I really liked iPhone for its consistency. You only need a finger a button, and after a couple of minutes you've figured out when to use which. Graphics performance is outstanding: you drag a picture or map and it stays glued to your finger without any sign of jerkiness. And generally, everything works the way it's supposed to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must have better hand-eye co-ordination than everyone, but I never pull out the stylus unless I'm hand-writing notes ( :3 ) or I'm using regedit.
The only time I miss buttons is when I'm trying to select a new artist / song from the list in Windows Media Player while driving.
And seriously, when you're watching the road and operating a touchscreen out of the corner of your eyes...the icons could be the size of Texas...you'd still miss...
NilRecurring said:
By contrast, with TP2 there is no such consistency. You start off with your finger and after a while get annoyed and pull the stylus out, then after a minute you realize you need a keyboard and pull out that one too. Then you get bored of landscape mode and shove the keyboard in, then you put the stylus back in only to pull it out a minute later (iPhone is much easier to operate with one hand than TP2). And of course it takes a lot of effort to make many things run the way the're supposed to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prefer to think of the stylus and keyboard as advantages. Texting/reading emails/writing emails while driving is a terrible idea. Like most terrible ideas, I have done it before. A lot. Having used a Mogul and Touch Pro before a Palm Pre, an iPhone, a Hero and a Samsung Moment, I find myself reaching for the stylus occasionally for the increased accuracy. I cannot stand even the most intuitive touch screen keyboard. I hate the Mogul, Touch Pro, Touch Pro 2, iPhone, Hero and Instinct virtual keyboards equally. Having to slide out the keyboard? I am grateful that this advanced, useful and stylish equipment allows me that convenience.
warrenmrogers said:
I am grateful that this advanced, useful and stylish equipment allows me that convenience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am equally grateful.
However, I'm enraged that the HD2 won't offer this...
>_>
i've been using winmo devices since 2004 when i bought a motorola mpx200 and i've been using windows since 3.1, i've used every windows in both platforms until then. the thing i can say about windows in general is it is evolving indeed. you can't even compare a win 3.1 or even 95 with xp or especially with 7 imo and same goes for wm 2003 and 6.5.
saying windows isn't evolving based on it can be run by older devices is just dumb (no offence intended) being a former computer science engineering student i can say that the most important thing our instructors were telling us was when you programme improve your coding to require less ram and cpu power and modulate. especially win 7 does this perfectly. so it is basicly good programming rather than a not evolving platform.
about iphone vs tp2, i prefer tp2. i've used my friends' iphone 2g and 3g (i even jailbreaked and unbricked 2g actually and tried to teach how to use the 3g to the other one so you can say i tampered with both of them for a pretty good time) i truly hated both of them. i am not saying this because i want to trash iphone i understand why some people may like it but it is just no good for me. simple example: when i went into the settings i was like "what this is it??" and no multitasking? thanks but no thanks.
let's return to good programming and not evolving issue for iphone. iphone 2g os was ~250 mb, our HTC wm6.5 is what 175 mb custom roms are 130-140 mb. the nice things iphone does are because of its larger os. what apple is doing is just putting an enormous os to a phone and expecting their fast cpu to be able to handle it. i don't know about 3g s but the others weren't handling it so much imo. that's why it has no multitasking i guess, because it is barely handling the os.
and not evolving? let's take a look at iphone history. what's is the difference between 2g-3g and 3g s again? i am so glad it can now copy-paste and take videos btw (can't remember how long i've been doing these with a winmo phone). maybe even some day apple releases a 3g-sx or something and iphone users can even use video call
conclusion is you may like iphone i don't iphone has its advantages tp2 has its own but let's not be silly by saying win platform is not evolving because it can be run by older devices especially when iphone's "evolving" is well known
Why do these iPhone/Touch Pro2 comparisons keep coming up? They each have their advantages and disadvantages just like the Macs and PCs. This is a TouchPro2 forum, so obviously the bias will be towards the TouchPro2. There are numerous threads already on this. You like to play games, get the iPhone. You want your phone for business, get the TouchPro2.
One thing I really miss on TP2 is scroll buttons I had on my Axim. Now, iPhone doesn't have them either, but I found its finger scrolling works much better than on TP2. I often view pages in landscape just to make use of page up/page down buttons. I tried VolDPad to configure the volume buttons for scrolling but it's very buggy and the volume buttons are not too comfortable for scrolling anyway. BTW, what I liked best about myTouch was the trackball (you don't know what you're missing until you've tried it), but that's for another discussion.
warrenmrogers said:
I am a manager at a sprint store and -ALWAYS- describe windows mobile phones as the free-est (is that a word?) experience out of any phone I have owned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Compared to Apple, Microsoft is much more open and less intrusive. Apple has already become an evil empire, and Google seems to be going there.
Related
Yeah windows phone 7 is now reality its shown i mean is being showing right now....
Awesome
[16/2/2010] Hello, All as you all might have know that there are different hubs in Windows Phone 7 series. So what do you think about this hub idea? To what extent did you liked it, Share your thoughs opinions etc... Those people who dont know what is this hub, here is a quick intro :
"Windows Phone 7 Series creates an unrivaled set of integrated experiences on a phone through Windows Phone hubs. Hubs bring together related content from the Web, applications and services into a single view to simplify common tasks. Windows Phone 7 Series includes six hubs built on specific themes reflecting activities that matter most to people."
There are total 6 hubs namely:
1. People
2. Pictures
3. Games
4. Music + Video
5. Marketplace
6. Office
Also what is you opinion about the new marketplace hub for windows phone 7 series, its looking great here.
Latest update via techz.in
4:08PM Everything not explained today will be available on the MIX next month, might be more exicting than the MWC2010.
4:08PM David Christopher from AT&T is now talking about how he thinks Windows Phone will be great and how AT&T will help launching Windows Phone 7.
4:10PM Now Olaf Swantee from Orange on stage. Orange released the first ever smartphone to run Windows Mobile in the US.
4:12PM “Windows Phone 7 will not be just a product, but this is a whole new way to work with our partners.”
4:14PM Steve Ballmer is now talking about how ‘7′ might be their lucky number. Windows 7 was great and he hopes that Windows Phone 7 is just as great, or even better.
4:15PM “Windows Phone 7 Series will be available this holiday season, 2010.”
4:16PM “And with that, I want to wrap up. We hope you enjoy the conference.”
4:17PM Now time for questions, trying to keep up with those, but will be difficult!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Questions on the conference:
Question: “Other developers provide free software, will Microsoft ever stop charging a license fee?”
Answer: We are a software company, not a hardware provider. We sell software, not the hardware, that’s our business model. (Short: No)
Question: “If you want to provide consistency to the device, how are you gong to allow partners to differentiate themselves?”
Answer: Consistency in the OS can coexist with different applications in the operation. Partners will be able to divers themselves by making different applications to add in the operating system. (Steve Ballmer) I got that same question when we went from Dos to Windows, we brought more consistency and people thought it wouldn’t allow partners to differentiate themselves. Look now, how many different PC’s are sold, not one of them is equal!
Question: “Will you support Flash 10.1 in any way on Windows Phone 7?”
Answer: Out of the box Windows Phone 7 will not support Flash. (Steve Ballmer) WE have NO OBJECTION against Flash, it’s just that it’s not ready.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For those who cant stream it live coz of slow internet can read Live minute to minute coverage here.
Well as I can see, no multitasking, no cab installation, even no file explorer.... that thing is just for the consumers.
very bad ...they have should included all this in the current windows mobile...
Nice Iphone
What about the windows 7 OS? This looks like "project pink" which I really dont care about.
So, all rumors are correct. You also have to use the Zune software. Well, as for the interface, it's better than iPhone.
Lots of disappointments
Anywyas now Steve Ballmer is back on stage..
I think I gonna stay a long time on wm6.5
ceesheim said:
I think I gonna stay a long time on wm6.5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 Although i will be sticked with wm 6.5.3 i really wish that we keep getting some new builds but microsoft may stop as wm 7 announced
But why are so dissapointed? I haven't heard anything about lack of multitasking or any other restriction when comparing to WM 6.5? Did I miss something?
Good times. I think the worst thing that can happen here is for purist (us) to leap to conclusions about what the new OS does and doesn't do without any valid information to support it. This OS is still 5-7 months away from hitting your ear and its not like they demo'd the device in its entirety yet. So instead of saying "No this No that..." or "oh its like the Iphone" lets wait and see. You've waited this long, no point in jumping ship till we see what this phone can really do. I own a Zune HD and I'm extremely happy with it....this OS looks similar so expect it to take full advantage of those snapdragons and Tegra chipsets. Don't sell M$ short yet...The Iphone and Android proved how its possible to run a tightly integrated App store, WM6+ showed how its possible for the end user to run its own app store (this site as well as others) its a fine line M$ has to walk with 7 and its all about pleasing the majority. Plus think of things this way; why do we need 10 different lock screen apps, 9 music player apps, 15 Contacts apps, 100 Homescreen replacement apps, 5 calendar Apps, 10000 basic Tweak apps...etc? Its because Winmo was bland, terrible white screens, slow loading, and generally outdated and plain ugly. This doesn't look to be the case now. If M$ gets it right (which its looking like they are going for gold) then you won't need it.
To prove the point...(and I hate to mention it but) the Iphone, simple UI and it just works, so now the user only has to focus on what Apps do they feel like downloading as opposed to (us) who have to think or find apps that replace basic system functions and screens. The Moral is, when you do it right the user doesn't have to focus on making it functional only making it personal. That seems to be the route M$ is taking here. We'll see when all is said and done. But lets just be objective about this whole thing...we wanted change we got it, now we gotta see if its worth it
~style~
Actually you are right in questioning that point. It hasn't been mentioned at all! Furthermore because the tiles are 'live', some form of multitasking must be present, since 'Hubs' can be added later it is safe to assume those 'Hubs' will also be capable of having updated tiles. It can just be that there is a central 'update service' where you need to register your application to and so it will udate, but it can also be there is some form of multitasking.
Also there has been completely nothing about restrictions compared to Windows Mobile. Even more than that, when at the end questions where asked Steve Ballmer answered about the ability to develop applications for it.
So without further information I see absolutely nothing that restricts this operating system more than WinMo 6.5.x.
pilgrim011 said:
But why are so dissapointed? I haven't heard anything about lack of multitasking or any other restriction when comparing to WM 6.5? Did I miss something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can like the interface or hate it, but nothing has been mentioned about developing applications or anything.
This is a sum of what we do know:
- New UI
- Zune Software Integrated
- Live Tiles
- 'Hubs' that connect to multiple sites
- You can develop applications for it (and maybe 3rd party 'Hubs')
Here is what we don't know:
- Nothing about multi-tasking
- Nothing about applications on the device
Here is what we expect:
- Applications from WinMo 6.5.x will not work, as mentioned 'a new set of tools for developing will be ready for our partners soon'.
jagan2 said:
+1 Although i will be sticked with wm 6.5.3 i really wish that we keep getting some new builds but microsoft may stop as wm 7 announced
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 although 6.5.5,
NO, of course I'm gonna try 7 series........... (BMW ;-)
style1 said:
Good times. I think the worst thing that can happen here is for purist (us) to leap to conclusions about what the new OS does and doesn't do without any valid information to support it. This OS is still 5-7 months away from hitting your ear and its not like they demo'd the device in its entirety yet. So instead of saying "No this No that..." or "oh its like the Iphone" lets wait and see. You've waited this long, no point in jumping ship till we see what this phone can really do. I own a Zune HD and I'm extremely happy with it....this OS looks similar so expect it to take full advantage of those snapdragons and Tegra chipsets. Don't sell M$ short yet...The Iphone and Android proved how its possible to run a tightly integrated App store, WM6+ showed how its possible for the end user to run its own app store (this site as well as others) its a fine line M$ has to walk with 7 and its all about pleasing the majority. Plus think of things this way; why do we need 10 different lock screen apps, 9 music player apps, 15 Contacts apps, 100 Homescreen replacement apps, 5 calendar Apps, 10000 basic Tweak apps...etc? Its because Winmo was bland, terrible white screens, slow loading, and generally outdated and plain ugly. This doesn't look to be the case now. If M$ gets it right (which its looking like they are going for gold) then you won't need it.
To prove the point...(and I hate to mention it but) the Iphone, simple UI and it just works, so now the user only has to focus on what Apps do they feel like downloading as opposed to (us) who have to think or find apps that replace basic system functions and screens. The Moral is, when you do it right the user doesn't have to focus on making it functional only making it personal. That seems to be the route M$ is taking here. We'll see when all is said and done. But lets just be objective about this whole thing...we wanted change we got it, now we gotta see if its worth it
~style~
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this sounds so iphonish! Of course we WANT to change it even if it's already working properly. if I want a simply but working UI then I can switch back to my old Nokia phone with a proprietary UI on which you can't even change colors.....
Sure MS need to look at the mass market and introduce a new user experience, but hopefully they still leave their OS customizeable like before (or even further)
Besides that I'm very curious about the prof./business edition of WM 7. Because business people won't need all this facebook, zune, xbox fanciness....
WM7 looks pretty nice, looking forward for the new devices. I love my ZuneHD, now with phone... Amazing
We have to wait for more info. What I heard in that presentation is that WM6.5 will be developped side by side with WM7, don't know for how long. So I can assume that WM6.5 will be the bussiness version and WM7 iPhone version. If this is the case I will stick to 6.5 too. Facebook and other social networks and what I saw in presentations are useless for me. SenseUI already integrates mails with SMS and agenda and this is all I need so far.
style1 said:
Good times. I think the worst thing that can happen here is for purist (us) to leap to conclusions about what the new OS does and doesn't do without any valid information to support it. This OS is still 5-7 months away from hitting your ear and its not like they demo'd the device in its entirety yet. So instead of saying "No this No that..." or "oh its like the Iphone" lets wait and see. You've waited this long, no point in jumping ship till we see what this phone can really do. I own a Zune HD and I'm extremely happy with it....this OS looks similar so expect it to take full advantage of those snapdragons and Tegra chipsets. Don't sell M$ short yet...The Iphone and Android proved how its possible to run a tightly integrated App store, WM6+ showed how its possible for the end user to run its own app store (this site as well as others) its a fine line M$ has to walk with 7 and its all about pleasing the majority. Plus think of things this way; why do we need 10 different lock screen apps, 9 music player apps, 15 Contacts apps, 100 Homescreen replacement apps, 5 calendar Apps, 10000 basic Tweak apps...etc? Its because Winmo was bland, terrible white screens, slow loading, and generally outdated and plain ugly. This doesn't look to be the case now. If M$ gets it right (which its looking like they are going for gold) then you won't need it.
To prove the point...(and I hate to mention it but) the Iphone, simple UI and it just works, so now the user only has to focus on what Apps do they feel like downloading as opposed to (us) who have to think or find apps that replace basic system functions and screens. The Moral is, when you do it right the user doesn't have to focus on making it functional only making it personal. That seems to be the route M$ is taking here. We'll see when all is said and done. But lets just be objective about this whole thing...we wanted change we got it, now we gotta see if its worth it
~style~
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We need all of those things because each of is different. Granted you are righ that this in part to the lack of updating of WiMo but we are all individuals. Each of us have our own preference of what we want out of our devices and forums like this fufill these needs. For example, I may like the pure power of the HD2 but hate the homescreen. There are options out there like WAD, Homescreen++, andriokid amoung others. My point is that we all dont want to be in put the box that "this phone will do everything you want" becuase the fact of the matter is that can never happen. So give us power and we will take it from there.
Each and every feature of wp (Windows Phone) 7 is rocking. I was only disappointed of the lack of multitasking but after a good explaination by kilzone i can now show more love to wp 7 . Great ui now the phone will be more than for calling.
i the the day the first picture and think... "Oh no its a Zune" :-(
I hope the Professional Edition will look like a Phone.
ladies and gentleman... the Microsoft iPhone. social-centric UI for newbies, no customizations, no old appz...
holy crap
android here I come
Pocketnow.com has a great story on Windows "Phone" 7 and details about what happened to Windows "Mobile" 7, codenamed Photon.
I think it's worth a read. I can add a little detail: Photon has been killed about 18 months ago. That's how long development of Windows Phone 7 took them. 18 months. And that's why the Windows Phone 7 they've shown at MWC looks so unfinished: Because it is.
Photon was the original Windows Mobile 7 project. An evolution of Windows Mobile 6. They were hard at work back then, trying to make Windows Mobile 7 competitive to iPhone OS. Windows Mobile 7 was originally planned to be released in mid 2009.
But at some point, they dumped the whole project and decided to start from scratch. Photon was dead. And Windows "Mobile" was doomed, making way for Windows "Phone". Instead of Photon, they released Windows Mobile 6.5 in mid 2009, a stop gap release to give them more time to finish their new Windows Phone 7 project.
Well, we all know how that turned out.
I personally think that they've made a mistake. I think Windows Mobile 7 (Photon) would have been competitive, as it essentially would have solved all of Windows Mobile's problems, but preserving the power of Windows Mobile, the reason we use and like it.
Windows Phone 7 will instead be much more closed and remove a great proportion of the power user features, that were the reason for us not to move on to other platforms, like the iPhone.
But what do I know? Windows Mobile 7 wouldn't have been much different from other platforms, like Android and iPhone OS. Sure, it would have had much more power user features, but it would have been centered around applications, like the others. It would certainly have gained a significant market share, but no dominance. With Windows Phone 7, instead, Microsoft is aiming higher.
But that also means a lot of risk. It means Windows Phone 7 might fail completely. In the end, it will come down to how good they are at getting developers excited about their new platform. That's where Palm failed, despite having a very compelling platform with webOS. Microsoft might fail the same way, though they have a much better starting position than Palm (more money, more resources, better developing tools).
In my opinions, they've taken too much risk while desperately trying to create something different from their competitors' app-centric platforms. As Engadget said it: Being different does not necessarily mean making a difference. If they can make a difference, they might dominate the smartphone market some time, like they dominate the desktop OS market. But if they fail to make a difference... well, Windows Phone might fall into oblivion, like Palm's webOS.
I like the Windows Phone 7 UI. I like it a lot. See my take on the interface quoted at the bottom of this post.
But Windows Phone 7 is very similar to Vista: Just like they killed the "Longhorn" project, they killed "Photon", and started from scratch. And just like Vista, what they're going to release by the end of 2010 will be an unfinished product.
They're trying to make you think that 7 is their lucky number, but actually, it might turn out that it's not, and Windows Phone 7 is just like Windows 6 (Vista).
Also, Windows Phone 7 is not that different from Palm's webOS: When the Palm Pre was released, webOS was a nice looking mobile OS, but lacking features and refinements. And lacking third party applications. Expect the same to happen with Windows Phone 7.
Here's the Pocketnow story: http://pocketnow.com/thought/thoughts-on-windows-phone-7-series-btw-photon-is-dead
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In short: This is easily and by far the best and most well thought through UI I've ever seen. Ever.
I particularly like
- the ability to pin pretty much everything to the first page (but unlike Sense, as many things as you want), whether it's contacts, programs or whatever
- the things you pin to the first page not being static, but also showing information - a very clever way to bring together the iPhone's icon-based home screen with Windows Mobile's information based home screen.
- the navigation through the pages, with the text on top going out of the screen to show you that there's more you can discover by swiping left/right
- the panorama backgrounds on all the screens (cover arts in music, a random picture in photos etc.)
- the ability for third party developers to integrate their stuff (like additional social networks or streaming services) into the hubs (I hope there will be a lot of freedom for third parties to do so!).
- the seamless integration of all kinds of services in general, whether it's Exchange, Windows Live (finally!!), Facebook...
I also particularly like that some good concepts from previous Windows Mobile versions have been preserved:
- long press menus
- softkeys
- quick search through any list (in WM6.5, it was the keyboard icon, now it's the required search button)
Those enable a consistent UI throughout all applications, contrary to the mess you find on the iPhone, where important buttons like "back" are in different places depending on the application you're in.
OK, enough of the praise, here's what I do NOT like:
- The all applications list: That should be a grid, cause there's lots of wasted space there.
- There seems to be no easy way to get to the music controls while music is playing in the background.
- Apparently there is no easy way to switch between running applications, this seems to work much like WM6.5, with the back button taking you to the application you used before. This is a mess, the back button should open some kind of task switcher instead.
Will that awesome UI be enough to keep me from buying an Android device? Well, ONLY if I get all the important applications from the beginning, like for example satellite navigation (TomTom, Copilot...) and ONLY if there are no restrictions on how I use my device - give me multitasking, unlimited access to the file system and registry, let companies develop competing applications (like browsers) etc.
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Great writeup...it's obvious that in order to attain mass market share MS needs to develop an interface that just works straight out of the box. It has to work for all ages which is something Apple have done with the iPhone..simple and attractive with a huge incentive to keep ones interest high through their ever growing appstore. If they can get it right first time and with the enthusiasm from application developers they may well be onto a winner but the win may not come immediately.However, they need to make every step count along the way and the longer they take the bigger the gap to the lead.
I also believe MS may leave at least one door unlocked to get their OS to do what powerusers expect from it.
From what I've seen of the WP7 interface so far it looks pretty neat and I'm definately looking forward to it hopefully landing on my HD2 soon.
Uh... link's dead.
aussiebum said:
Uh... link's dead.
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Click to collapse
Apparently pocketnow is in the process of moving to a new server and that article is on the new server. I can't see it either.
Microsoft is MASSIVELY different than Palm. In size, skills, and especially developer support and tools.
WebOS is a great OS but like you said, it's main failure is developer support. First, it's partially their fault due to the architecture. Until recently, you couldn't really write "native" apps using their SDK (people hacked it long ago but that's another story). Basically you were limited to little more than a web page with increased access to the phone. Meh. Also, WebOS has very minimal market penetration. Until recently it was only available on the US's #3 carrier and only later on select carriers abroad. Why develop software for a device that hardly anyone has? Apple was (as they always seem to do) able to drum up a large amout of support with very little reason to show for it. Microsoft will have a much more compelling story than Apple did with it's iPhone but will lack Apple's "it" factor (Jobs' RDF).
Palm is tiny. They don't have the money and patience like MS does to sustain a long, battle for the hearts and minds of phone users everywhere. Just look at what MS did with the Xbox. They didn't turn a profit on that unit until well into the Xbox 360. But did MS quit after the original Xbox was a failure? No, they tried harder. And now look.
Palm doesn't have the devloper tools. Yea, they can write plugins for Eclipse but they lack the ability to write extensive APIs and integrate them into Visual Studio. Do not underestimate the power of .net (figuratively and literally). Silverlight is fantastic as is XNA. If I can make a 'game' (although it sucked lol) anyone can.
No guts no glory. Microsoft is playing for keeps. I have no doubt that WP7 or WP8 will be successful.
FYI, Windows 7 is really Windows 6.1. And just like Longhorn, Photon was likely destined to be a failure. Vista was a necessary step to get to 7. The hatred for Vista is largely unfounded and 7 really is just Vista with the complaints fixed and a bit more modern UI.
We still don't know the story on app compat. It's running WinCE and it will support silverlight (.net) so there's little reason, other than wanting a complete clean break, that most old apps won't work. WinCE uses cab installs just like WM (because it is CE). I can write one app and deploy it to a bare WinCE 6.0 system or to WM6.5 (CE5). Maybe they will allow old stuff, maybe they won't. We won't know til next month. They very well may not have made this decision yet.
At one time the iPhone had 0 apps and WM had a **** ton. How long did it take for iPhone to build up a huge base of devs? I'm expecting a pretty solid selection of apps written for WP7 right from launch. Microsoft already has a lot of the key stuff onboard. I've got something in mind and will likely be doing one myself (something I started for WM6).
I agree.
I wouldn't worry about WP7 apps' database like the iPhone people will get interest in it, its potential is great when it comes to the new UI (the only thing we know for sure).
About the Photon project, why do you think that it's dead?
It seems that M$ is willing to keep the old branch of Windows Mobile by renaming it to Windows Phone Classic. Perhaps Photon is the final evolution of Windows Phone Classic. I don't think, IF they keep on developping, that they are going to stop to this current bad look and poor customization of WM6.5.3.
I don't think Windows Phone 7 was supposed to be WM6.1, if it was the OS would be ready a long time ago.
I apologize for my poor english, i hope you understand my thought.
X-On said:
About the Photon project, why do you think that it's dead?
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I have been told by peole inside Microsoft that WM6.5 will live on for no longer than two years, more likely only 18 months from now. I've heard no word that there would be a successor.
freyberry said:
I have been told by peole inside Microsoft that WM6.5 will live on for no longer than two years, more likely only 18 months from now. I've heard no word that there would be a successor.
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Due to the limited versions numbers left between 6.5 and 7 it's not really assumed they will keep it going for too long. after 6.5.3 is gonna be officially released (this month?) my guess it that they're only fixing bugs and make it run on few more devices. in 1-2 years I don't think anymore OEMS will demand it and there'll be not a lot of phones with CPUs less than 1Ghz and such and they'll all run WP7. For MS it doesn't really make sense to keep it going any longer.....
WM6.5.x will be Windows Phone Starter Edition according to the latest rumors
Win_XP said:
WM6.5.x will be Windows Phone Starter Edition according to the latest rumors
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Actually it's 'Windows Phone Classic'
source
Any chance of a Photon leak? Would be nice project for Xda Dev.
some screens ...
dark_sith said:
Any chance of a Photon leak? Would be nice project for Xda Dev.
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We had old alpha versions. It was very unfinished, slow and buggy.
Cotulla has posted its screenshots above.
I think Photon looked good. They should at least have finished the work on it and released it instead of WM6.5.
Let those 1000 developers work on Windows Phone OS 7.0 and another 500 work on Photon, release Photon in mid 2009 as WM6.5 and Windows Phone OS 7.0 a year later.
That would have been perfect. Ah I'm dreaming...
Mamaich, any chance you could have another look at that dev document, whether third party applications get paused when sent to the background?
(i.e. whether or not developers are allowed to write programs like GPS tracking tools or FTP clients that can do their work in the background)
freyberry said:
Mamaich, any chance you could have another look at that dev document, whether third party applications get paused when sent to the background?
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There is no such info in the docs I have. These are OEM docs, they have lots of information on WinPhone kernel, and only brief info on user apps.
I personally like WinPhone 7 kernel. It supports lots of different sensors, hardware accelerated Direct3D API (no OpenGL ES), multi-touch, almost all drivers are split in MDD+PDD model simplifying BSP development and ROM updates, redesigned security model.
Obviously we will hack WinPhone7 to enable running native apps (similar to "rooting" Androids that we have to do to install features like VPN client), and publish our own "native mode SDKs" here on XDA.
mamaich said:
There is no such info in the docs I have. These are OEM docs, they have lots of information on WinPhone kernel, and only brief info on user apps.
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Thanks a lot. We will have to wait, then.
Obviously, WP7 will be hacked and we will be able to develop native and multitasking applications. But I seriously hope that big, important applications like GPS navigation programs won't be restricted from running in the background... I'll contact MS concerning that issue
If MS continue with the Photon project, it would be more of the same.They would continue to loss marketshare. It may be technically more advanced for the WM powerusers. Unfortunately, it is a small minority for the market. the fact that Apple could sell their dump phone (1st iPhone) in millions and continue to do so well tells us what appeals to the the mass market. MS really has no choice but to follow the path they are doing now if they are to remain relevant to the mobile space. Yes, it is risky but the alternative is certain to fail.
freyberry said:
Thanks a lot. We will have to wait, then.
Obviously, WP7 will be hacked and we will be able to develop native and multitasking applications. But I seriously hope that big, important applications like GPS navigation programs won't be restricted from running in the background... I'll contact MS concerning that issue
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I assume that Navigation programs would belong to that type of application that would receive a multitasking permission by MS.... If that story about the permissions is true!? But looking at the already exisiting Designed for Windows Mobile or Marketplace submission handbook this pretty much fits in with MS's way of handling 3rd party applications.
from the picture. are thet from Windows "Mobile" 7 ?
I like these UI. Microsoft should place these UI to WM6.x if WM7 was killed
MrWhisper said:
from the picture. are thet from Windows "Mobile" 7 ?
I like these UI. Microsoft should place these UI to WM6.x if WM7 was killed
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Click to collapse
Me only like other screenshots I've seen with the new bottom bar (battery and signal indication + start button in the middle. I don't know if it's even real. Whatever, I'm gonna make it happen on WM 6.5.x! I already managed to change look of the taskbar. the bottom bar will be next project.
RustyGrom said:
Apparently pocketnow is in the process of moving to a new server and that article is on the new server. I can't see it either.
Microsoft is MASSIVELY different than Palm. In size, skills, and especially developer support and tools.
WebOS is a great OS but like you said, it's main failure is developer support. First, it's partially their fault due to the architecture. Until recently, you couldn't really write "native" apps using their SDK (people hacked it long ago but that's another story). Basically you were limited to little more than a web page with increased access to the phone. Meh. Also, WebOS has very minimal market penetration. Until recently it was only available on the US's #3 carrier and only later on select carriers abroad. Why develop software for a device that hardly anyone has? Apple was (as they always seem to do) able to drum up a large amout of support with very little reason to show for it. Microsoft will have a much more compelling story than Apple did with it's iPhone but will lack Apple's "it" factor (Jobs' RDF).
Palm is tiny. They don't have the money and patience like MS does to sustain a long, battle for the hearts and minds of phone users everywhere. Just look at what MS did with the Xbox. They didn't turn a profit on that unit until well into the Xbox 360. But did MS quit after the original Xbox was a failure? No, they tried harder. And now look.
Palm doesn't have the devloper tools. Yea, they can write plugins for Eclipse but they lack the ability to write extensive APIs and integrate them into Visual Studio. Do not underestimate the power of .net (figuratively and literally). Silverlight is fantastic as is XNA. If I can make a 'game' (although it sucked lol) anyone can.
No guts no glory. Microsoft is playing for keeps. I have no doubt that WP7 or WP8 will be successful.
FYI, Windows 7 is really Windows 6.1. And just like Longhorn, Photon was likely destined to be a failure. Vista was a necessary step to get to 7. The hatred for Vista is largely unfounded and 7 really is just Vista with the complaints fixed and a bit more modern UI.
We still don't know the story on app compat. It's running WinCE and it will support silverlight (.net) so there's little reason, other than wanting a complete clean break, that most old apps won't work. WinCE uses cab installs just like WM (because it is CE). I can write one app and deploy it to a bare WinCE 6.0 system or to WM6.5 (CE5). Maybe they will allow old stuff, maybe they won't. We won't know til next month. They very well may not have made this decision yet.
At one time the iPhone had 0 apps and WM had a **** ton. How long did it take for iPhone to build up a huge base of devs? I'm expecting a pretty solid selection of apps written for WP7 right from launch. Microsoft already has a lot of the key stuff onboard. I've got something in mind and will likely be doing one myself (something I started for WM6).
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Click to collapse
I have to agree with all of the above, as well as my HD2, I have a Palm Pre and whilst I watched the WP7S presentation from MWC, I kept thinking - "that's like the Pre" Palm did a great job with the user interface on WebOS - it blows away the iPhone and Winmo for ease of use, but they did release an unfinished product (although they have managed to put a reasonable spin on the ongoing development by pitching "new features" into the mix every couple of months - things that should have been there day1).
MS are huge in comparison to Palm and provided they do not get bogged down with "big corp intertia", my guess is that the new OS will lauch complete with all bells and whistles intact.
why they don't do it? ipad as iphone os... many slate are coming with android... why not a wp7 slate? i think it should be awesome, don't you?
I'm sure it will happen. By MS? I wouldn't bet on it, but there's nothing stopping MS's official partners from making a device. C-Motech made a Windows Mobile 6.5 tablet last year. If it does happen it will probably be anywhere between 5-8 inches since the highest resolution possible is only 800x480
Blue Ice K4 said:
why they don't do it? ipad as iphone os... many slate are coming with android... why not a wp7 slate? i think it should be awesome, don't you?
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Click to collapse
Maybe HP Slate will comes with WebOS from Palm, I guess you already know that HP bought PALM
4 main OS's
Out of the 4 main OS's of choice Android,iPhone,WebOS & WP7 I personally think WebOS & WP7 would be the best tablet experience to have on a device with w 7"+ screen size.
I really don't understand what everyone's hang up is with having a phone OS on a tablet.
It's bd enough that we have to endure the closed phone OS ecosystem on phones, why would you want to move that to the tablet realm?
What happened to all the people maligning the iPad because it ran a phone OS?
Spike15 said:
I really don't understand what everyone's hang up is with having a phone OS on a tablet.
It's bd enough that we have to endure the closed phone OS ecosystem on phones, why would you want to move that to the tablet realm?
What happened to all the people maligning the iPad because it ran a phone OS?
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more people are buying into the "what it does, it does really well" talking point. I don't know how many times I've read that, and heard it by ipad owners. Real tablets need another year or 2 to get the right hardware to use a real OS well at acceptable battery life, weight, and performance.
The HP Touchsmart is a step in the right direction. We're at like 1st & Goal for a real tablet envisioned like 10 years ago.
gom99 said:
more people are buying into the "what it does, it does really well" talking point.
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Which is kind of ridiculous because the point of the evolution of the computer is that it enables you to do more and more with one device.
This single-minded design ethos just restricts the customer further and further, and the fragmentation of operating systems is going to ensure that development is spread between all of them, rather than focussed on one of them (alternatively you're just going to see one rise to dominance and all the others will fade away).
Having a desktop OS on a tablet allows you to leverage the design and development work that's already gone into that operating system.
I see a lot of people/sites talking about how HP -- in their supposed killing of the Windows 7 Slate -- wants to own both the hardware and the software. I think these companies really need to take a more in-depth look at that business model -- the only company it's worked for is Apple, and it's arguable whether or not that's because Apple actually makes it work, or because Apple has their reality distortion field at full power.
Besides, if you've ever used an HP OEM PC that hasn't been formatted, you know just what a terrible idea it is having HP responsible for any kind of software development...
Spike15 said:
Besides, if you've ever used an HP OEM PC that hasn't been formatted, you know just what a terrible idea it is having HP responsible for any kind of software development...
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That's actually true about every OEM out there.
vangrieg said:
That's actually true about every OEM out there.
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I know, I was just citing HP as a specific example because they're rumoured to be killing off the Windows 7 Slate in favour of using an in house OS (WebOS).
The fact that companies are looking to own the OS and the hardware just sooms like a quality-sacrificing money-grab to me.
HP is a hardware company, and they make really good hardware. Microsoft is a software company, and they make really good software. There's a reason that they keep out of each others' markets, and that's because they would compromise the quality of the finished product. Great HP hardware running crappy HP software wouldn't amount to anything...
Spike15 said:
The fact that companies are looking to own the OS and the hardware just sooms like a quality-sacrificing money-grab to me.
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Click to collapse
They have tons of ambitions usually, and within big corporations like HP it's impossible to say that something they make sucks. So at the end of the day even if they may know they're bad at software they'll never acknowledge it, which sooner or later leads to bad decisions. They have reality distortion fields of their own.
Anyway, HP isn't a company that knows how to focus on anything. So I would expect to see different tablets from them, their acquisition of Palm doesn't mean much in this respect.
gom99 said:
Real tablets need another year or 2 to get the right hardware to use a real OS well at acceptable battery life, weight, and performance.
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Everyone seems to forget that tablet laptops with tablet versions of Windows XP/Vista/7 have been available for years. And yes they have acceptable battery life, weight, and performance.
Anyone who ever mentions "Laptop Replacement" and iPad in the same sentence should be required to look up the Lenovo Thinkpad X200 multi-touch tablet. Heavier and more expensive? Sure. But you only need one! No need lug that useless laptop around with you for every occasion that you might want to type something a bit longer than a web address or a text message, or every time your iPad fails at some trivial task that any 10 year old computer could easily perform.
But of course the iPad is not about features is it, it is about ease of use, and "doing what it does really well".
So what are these things that the iPad does "really well", compared to a laptop or desktop computer? Is Mobile Safari on the iPad really any easier to use than any desktop web browser? What about watching movies and listening to music (was this ever difficult)? Well it's optimized for touch input you say! But really, with 1024x768 and above screens, the difference between a finger and a mouse pointer is pretty close to being insignificant.
And lets not forget that Windows 7 came with multi-touch friendly features built in well before the iPad was even announced.
But of course no one knows this.
Anyway, I had a point, before I got sidetracked ranting about the iPad (I really need to work on this). My point was, tablet computers running the Windows operating system already exist, are available for a price no more than an average laptop, are optimized for multi-touch, and are easy to use, fast, and extremely powerful.
Pick one up, or at least check one out, and you'll forget that you ever thought you wanted to own an over-sized phone.
and you'll forget that you ever thought you wanted to own an over-sized phone.
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Click to collapse
It's not even an oversized phone, cause it can't make phone calls. It's just an oversized music player.
MooGoo said:
And lets not forget that Windows 7 came with multi-touch friendly features built in well before the iPad was even announced.
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I saw this when Windows 7 was released and was totally psyched for Windows 7 multi-touch tablets.
I had the fortune of grabbing a tablet that my Uncle was trying out for work back in the early 2000s, one of the old school HP or Compaq ones that only worked with the stylus and ran XP Tablet Edition. I was reading an eBook version of Angels and Demons, and it was love at first sight.
Ever since I've wanted a modern tablet, but there really hasn't been anything.
MooGoo said:
My point was, tablet computers running the Windows operating system already exist, are available for a price no more than an average laptop, are optimized for multi-touch, and are easy to use, fast, and extremely powerful.
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Click to collapse
I've been thinking of picking up a convertible ultra-portable (most likely the HP EliteBook 2730p if I go that route) and I'm just mostly concerned about the increased weight. I want a tablet to fill a very specific niche (replacing and enhancing the functionality of a book) and I don't need 3.3 pounds worth of keyboard et cetera to do that...
i think that we are already ready at hardware specs to make a slate with real os onboard... 5 hours aren't so bad...
but did you think wath can mean using windows 7, also with multitouch pack, ONLY with fingers and... on a 9" screen? don't forget that if os has touch optimization... the apps don't, if they weren't already designed... try to think about web surfing with firefox without touch optimization like form management and with menus not finger and friendly... now think all the others apps... i think we'll go crazy after few minutes
i think that mobile os are not better, but they are build to be finger friendly (unless winmo6 hehehe) and the experience with that is completely different and awesome respect a real os only with finger gesture, unless somebody develop an entire ui for win7 and sw start to have a finger friendly design and gestures...
different are the tablet pc, with keyboard and touchpad, in that case you can switch and having always the best input device method available.
bye!
Blue Ice K4 said:
but did you think wath can mean using windows 7, also with multitouch pack, ONLY with fingers and... on a 9" screen? don't forget that if os has touch optimization... the apps don't, if they weren't already designed... try to think about web surfing with firefox without touch optimization like form management and with menus not finger and friendly... now think all the others apps... i think we'll go crazy after few minutes
i think that mobile os are not better, but they are build to be finger friendly (unless winmo6 hehehe) and the experience with that is completely different and awesome respect a real os only with finger gesture, unless somebody develop an entire ui for win7 and sw start to have a finger friendly design and gestures...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm so tired of people preaching "finger friendliness". It seems in order to be "finger friendly" to these people, the entire screen needs to be occupied with just one giant button.
Do you all have Parkinson's?
dont worry, i haven't parkinson...
i just want a device where i dont want to touch twice the button because the first time i didn't aimed well the touch.
i just want a device where the apps doesn't require a keyboard.
i just want a device where there are apps...
what do you want to do with a slate? a device without keyboard and 9" screen...
internet, mail, youtube, movies, gps, mp3, chat, skype, videocall, games and others "mobile apps"... at this moment all these thing can be made with a mobile os with a best experience; with win7 they could be made, but there aren't all (games for example) and the experience it's surely poor respect to a mobile os...
Spike15 said:
I'm so tired of people preaching "finger friendliness". It seems in order to be "finger friendly" to these people, the entire screen needs to be occupied with just one giant button.
Do you all have Parkinson's?
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Click to collapse
OMG YOU READ MY MIIIIIIIIIIIIIND.
Finger friendliness does not require super sized UI elements. An operating system that has a finger controlled touchscreen as one of its input devices, can be programed so that, on detection of finger input, the areas of activation for common control elements such as buttons, check boxes, scrollbars, links etc, would be expanded, and thus not require precise placement as would be the case with a mouse pointer. You can already see this kind of finger adaptation on decent mobile web browsers such as the one built into Android which can accurately detect clicks on links even on a completely zoomed out web page (Opera Mobile 10 on the other hand could barely detect a click if the entire screen was a link...sigh)
This same finger awareness could be used to detect presses within scrollable areas to enable finger drag scrolling, just as TouchFlo originally did for WinMo.
And on the off chance you are presented with some nightmare of overlapping buttons, then the ability to zoom in the entire screen (Magnifier in Windows 7) can be used to compensate.
In short, no UI redesign should be necessary for finger control of most computer applications. Of course there will be exceptions, games in particular, many of which will get patched, some needing significant redesign.
That is the one thing the iPad offers that thus far is unique. It is the only significant platform for large format touch screen applications. Apple's trick this time around was to outsource their trademark innovation almost entirely to 3rd party developers. So far seems to be working.
Blue Ice K4 said:
i just want a device where i dont want to touch twice the button because the first time i didn't aimed well the touch.
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Click to collapse
Then learn to not suck so much at touchscreens.
That's like saying you want a keyboard that you don't have to learn to type on. Every interface paradigm is going to have somewhat of a learning curve.
Blue Ice K4 said:
i just want a device where the apps doesn't require a keyboard.
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Click to collapse
What are you talking about? Until they take speech recognition (or something else esoteric) to the next level, all apps that require any kind of input of text are going to require a keyboard, which onscreen or hardware.
Blue Ice K4 said:
i just want a device where there are apps...
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Click to collapse
And there are no "apps" for Windows 7?
You're just coming off as stupid. Your beyond-atrocious grammar doesn't help matters.
Blue Ice K4 said:
what do you want to do with a slate? a device without keyboard and 9" screen...
internet, mail, youtube, movies, gps, mp3, chat, skype, videocall, games
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you talking about?
The only thing in that list that I can't see myself doing easily on Windows 7 is GPS. There's probably some kind of GPS software for Windows, but I can't name any off the top-of-my-head, so I'll have to acquiensce that point.
As for the rest:
Internet: I love how people just throw "internet" around. What exactly are you referring to? "Internet" refers to "inter-network" and is therefore any situation wherein hosts on separate networks communicate.
The HP Slate has 3G and WiFi, so I think this qualifies.
Perhaps you were referring to "web browsing", which would be using a browser to view pages on the internet via HTTP. What's wrong with doing that in Windows 7? Does everyone not know that Windows 7 has built in multi-touch capability? You can get an HP Slate with Windows 7 and fire up IE and browse by touching links, pinch to zoom...it even has more robust multi-touch support that iPhone OS, being that it supports right-click and rotate multi-touch gestures.
Click here and scroll down to "Gestures" to see just how robust multi-touch support in Windows 7 really is...for clarity's sake, all those gestures emulate calls that already exist in Windows, so an application doesn't need to be multi-touch aware for you to be able to use multi-touch to zoom in it.
Mail: Why not? I think this point actually exemplifies what Windows 7-based tablets have over other operating systems. Look at all the crying that Android users do because Android doesn't have native support for Exchange.
Get a Windows 7 tablet, throw Outlook 2007/2010 on there, how much money says I have the best Exchange support available, plus support for all the connectors etc. and built-in POP3/IMAP4 support Outlook has.
If you're going for a touchscreen device, and you want to do mail, you'd have to be stupid not to go with Windows.
YouTube: Flash support (HP actually released a video that was devoted to nothing more than Adobe discussing AIR and Flash on the Slate) and Internet Explorer? How could that get any better?
Movies: I keep coming back to this whole "it is Windows" argument, and you're going to see that be a recurring theme. This is what really makes a Windows 7-based tablet special -- the fact that you can just run Windows software on it. This is why fragmenting the mobile OS market is bad, because your support isn't all consolidated on one platform.
You want to watch movies? I'm pretty sure Windows 7 ships with WMP12, and that, that has built-in DivX support. If that's not good enough for you, I'm sure you can use the WiFi/3G connection (or plug in a thumbdrive!) and install VLC media player.
Plus the Slate has graphics acceleration support for viewing 1080p movies!
Again: What more do you want?
GPS: I already acquiesced on this one.
MP3: Gee doesn't WMP come with Windows 7? Pretty sure that's been playing MP3s since...
...since...
...it came out in 1998?
And again, it is Windows! Don't like the built-in media player, get VLC or WinAmp or...
Chat: I'm pretty sure all the major IM clients are available for Windows. If you want to use a lot of IM protocols at once, I'm pretty sure things like Trillian and Pidgin are available for Windows!
Skype: See "Chat".
Videocall: See "Chat".
Games:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Dear God!
Blue Ice K4 said:
"mobile apps"... at this moment all these thing can be made with a mobile os with a best experience
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the record, "mobile apps" are people reinventing the wheel. They have a Facebook website, they have a Mobile Facebook website, so instead of leveraging that, and the fact that HTML/CSS/JavaScript is a relative standard, they make an app that's specific to each platform.
With Windows 7-based tablets, existing Windows development can be leveraged upon. Rather than redeveloping the entire application they can just build in the multi-touch features that are built into Windows. There's no hacking, to third-party garbage, this is a Windows-based device leveraging built-in Windows functionality.
Blue Ice K4 said:
the experience it's surely poor respect to a mobile os...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All these myraid "mobile os[es] [sic]" do is fragment the market to the point where developers cannot have their application on every platform. When you buy a tablet buying some funky OS, like WebOS (for example) or some funky custom distro of Linux, do you really think some developer is going to get you an app before Windows 7.
No, because by targeting the Windows 7 tablet, the developer can simultaneously target the desktop audience.
Which is far bigger than the mobile audience, and will be most likely indefinitely.
i have a prototype tablet my company has been developing and all i can say is windows7 on it is amazing plus all the features you have in your cell phone can be implemented in these tablets with windows 7. i think apple did another FU customer with the ipad. tablets are not toys but products to be used in an educational or work manner then in between play. i think everyone wants an ipad like tablet as over the years there has been a degradation of intelligence. if you want eye candy use your phone. if you want functionality use your tablet.
HackMimic said:
if you want eye candy use your phone. if you want functionality use your tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or you could just use a phone with WinMo or Android.
Does anyone think that the iPhone os and Android have helped kill the "smartfone"?
It seems these os's are intended for mainstream use, kind of like the symbian os a few years back where kid's, mom's and dad's used a nokia or even a motorola. While the business or tech heads used windows mobile for PC-like functionality.
Microsoft have dumbed down their w7 phone software to the point my grandmother, or 10 yr old brother could and would be sold one of these (as long as he had cash lol), in hope to compete against these new mainstream os's that are extreamly competitive already and not the business or tech-head market the os seemed to be initially intended for.
It seems the software design is focused on people updating their facebook status or tweeting that they are taking a dump, and not really using them for work purposes at all.
With windows phone 7 am i going to be able to work with basic word, excel and pdf docs? Will I be able to use remote desktop or setup multiple outlook email accounts? Will alot of the programs i use on pc be available in windows 7 phone format? I cant seem to find much info, all the reviews ive seen seem to concentrate on its "social networking features", or show its "image gallery" and uninspired UI.
A smartfone is suppose to be a mobile phone offering advanced capabilities. The iPhone and Android have pretty much become mainstream os's, so i personally wouldnt call them advanced devices, they are simply the 2009-10 standard device, a touchscreen multimedia phone with 3g connections. And windows 7 phone looks like its the same. I think Apple and Google have taken 2 steps forward and microsoft have taken 1 back. Leaving us with no real advanced mobile phone or os as they are all now on par, with android looking the most positive of these mainstream os's.
So if its not aimed at the business or hi-tech market, what are we going to buy? I wonder if we will all be trying to hack the windows mobile 6.5 os onto these new devices in the near future to get some multitasking business features and PC-like functionality back? Im sure it would run great on the new hardware hehe.
You are quite right IMHO, but there is simple reason for that.
MS was targetting PocketPC platform, giving "full PC in your pocket"-like experience. This was for techs, administrators, but not for teenagers eagerly wanting to touch their phones without stylus, browsing internet, having thousands of animations AND HAVING IT SIMPLE. With Apple and later Google coming out with platform that actually allows you to simply and naturally touch the screen with your finger without using stylus, do simple things simple way (and disabling the hard things, because why would teenager need eg PuTTY right, for security and having out of box experience "it works" without installing ton of software, going through registry etc), MS's sales are slowly moving towards 0. And now, MS is targetting those teenagers, giving them all Facebook integrated in contacts, with simple UI and powerful base for making rich applications and games.
That part is good, that MS restarted whole Phone experience, giving minimal requirements so no more sluggish phones (just look on even HD2, needing patching driver for GPU and so on), creating whole UI rendered on DirectX, having new kernel, thus having it all like.. superfast.
On the other hand, they locked it down as hell. No teenager (except me ) wants to go through registry, they just want to have ton of apps on marketplace, and ton of games they can play. No manual googling for stuff, direct access from phone with cool UI. That's it.
I wanted to say something more, but I forgot what I wanted lol.
// ohh remembered:
Let's skip the definition "Smartphone is PocketPC without touchscreen", and say how do I feel difference between Smartphone and PocketPC.
I see smartphone as being something stupid with some internal APIs, integration option. (iOS, Android)
And I see PocketPC as being full PC in my pocket. Because of screen size, CPU power, RAM etc, it ofc has to be redesigned a lot. But the main idea "do what you want anyhow you want" must be there. It isn't in case of Smartphone (WinMo, partially Android).
No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.
krjcook said:
No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. The OSs might have been dumbed down, but at the core, it's all what applications you use to run on them. I am way more productive with my iPhone than I ever have been an other smartphone before then, and I will be with WP7 more so with it's amazing Office integrations
can you elaborate on the office integrations? Are there new office features that we havent seen on mw6.5?
If you are more productive on your iPhone than on wm6.5 are you using it for business/pc-like features or for social multimedia use?
Im just disapointed that they seem to have locked down the device, dumbed the UI to a point it actually looks like a really bad skinning attempt to conserve ram lol. The first pics i saw of the w7phone i thought must have been someones photoshop attempt at a joke. I lol'd then got a look of concern on my face as I realised they were real pics.
They are trying to enter into a mainstream teenage market already accomodated by the iPhone and now android. Leaving the traditional "pc in your pocket-business user" market with a void.
I personally dont tweet, dont use facebook, and would never use a xbox live service while im taking notes on my device in a meeting. I regularly work on my home/work pc through remote desktop. Use the calendar to set appointments, browse multiple websites at once and generally run 2-3 apps at the same time. I regularly use word and excel, and always sync my business/personal emails from by pc each morning.
I suppose the question is will wm7 be right for me? I would have preferred them to concentrate on new touch friendly business applications, handwriting recognition and smarter gui, not concentrate on social networks and games which make it seem to much like a teenagers phone. If these features i need are there that will be great and ill consider it. If not I think ill have to look into being converted into an androidian and lay my pc in my pocket to rest in a safe place as one of the last of its kind
Many of us wonder how it will be.
From the sales point of view, you have to simplify and make more eye candy
to increase your sales 10 or 100 times.
Just count how many Communicators Nokia sold, or HTC TyTn II's
and compare to iPhone.
But it's possible that following the smartphone's expansion
users beeing more conscious will want more functionality
which will be brought back........
I'm very happy with better cameras and screens though.
And hardware became so strong too.
So not all is lost.
THE ONLY QUESTION is if Microsoft is willing to bring all those missing things
or not........................
I pray for the resurrection of the PPC!
If I had this
Vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mej7sf4uonI
If it was the shape and size of the HD2, I would be in love again!
Yes it would appar that MS is moving to a more of a "walled garden" approach
yeah that sony in hd2 form factor would be great, i was hoping the tp3 would have been a similar device. Bring back the ppc! hehe.
anhyeuemmaimai said:
"walled garden"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Otherwise known as prison
devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More like safety. I'll keep my guaranteed updates through one provider thank you very much.
I dont see why you are complaining about the path that manufacturers are going today.
It is easy to know WHY they make advanced devices simpler to use, (to get a broader consumer base).
And I must admit I will miss the usability of winmo, but when you think about it, who uses the original UI of that OS? It's all skinned for eyecandy and simplicity to the end user.
So I would like you to see the bright side of this: The HTC TP2 will cost next to nothing very soon (well its darn right cheap already!). And it seems it has all you need!
For taking notes who needs 1ghz, right?
So I consider it a win-win situation for you, cheap phones with the functionality you require
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App
The concerns are understandable, but I wouldn't say MS is abandoning the business user. In fact, I would state they are allowing the business user to encompass the newer business model also which includes facebook, twitter and other social mediums. Since you don't use either (directed to the OP) you may have missed that nearly every large corporation has a Facebook page and many are using Twitter to stay in touch with their user base.
The business model of marketing has changed dramatically in the last 5 years and I wouldn't give the credit to either the Iphone or Android, but to the social marketing that occurs with mediums such as Myspace, Facebook, Twitter, etc... I must admit that I fought being a part of these as did many of my friends (ages 35-42), but truth is they work great when it comes to actually being in contact with each other and for a business, it's customer base. Word of mouth has always been the true back bone of these businesses growing and these social mediums all take word of mouth and expand it's power by the millionth.
I applaud MS for actually creating a brand new ui and os to take advantage of both. If you are really concerned with your ability to be productive on the machine look at the many videos we've seen so far. You still have outlook, the office suite, etc... I am unsure if remote desktop will remain available but I believe it will in WP7.
The people who are left out are us nerds. The systems are lockdowned for now on and we get left out the loop, but we buy less phones than the clones do even if we are the reason these things work out properly with all of our experimenting, rom chefs and willingingness to beta test any and everything that comes our way.
ok, so I'm enjoying my Desire's speed and stability compared to my WiMo HTC Touch HD. I can still use Word and Excell and synchronize email and calendars, etc. But there is one thing I am missing: handwriting recognition. Now people will tell me to use Swype (which I am) but it's still not the same thing. With the stylus and handwriting recognition I used to sit in meetings and take notes for real. Now it somehow does not work as well and I also feel a little like a joke swyping. I am not much of a poking-through-the-registry kind of guy but I did like having complete access to the file system, being able to move any file where I wanted it, and so on. But I guess this is just the way this world goes. IN the meantime, I am sticking with android for now. It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.
^ I can agree to that. Not the swype part though, its fast as hell.
If i had to choose between windows mobile 6 or wp7, i have already made my decision
I will surely choose wp7, not because wm 6 is bad, but because wp7 works fluid. And I need my daily amount of eyecandy
tudork said:
It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.
addicus said:
Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol
Grassy
devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you mean a court yard. One which you can freely enter or freely leave. Seriously if the first thing that pops into your head when thing of walled gardens are prisons...I'd talk to someone about that...
I think most people complaining now are not thinking long term.
Yes the OS is simpler and 'less' business and PPC focused. But. Think of it like this.
Start with simple yet powerful OS with enough feature to hook some power-users and easy enough for the average consumer to pick it up.
Now this is where the strategy plays out over the years to come. You train you base customer with update that over time make the OS more powerful and more feature rich much like PPC that they don't even know they're using a smartphone because you have "trained" them.
Sound familiar. It was the iPhone tactic from when it was released. Everyone knows the feature the iPhone4 has now could have existed years ago but they are "training" their user base.
Analogy time: If someone handed you an Indie car (PPC) and said race it you would be so confused by all the buttons and controls and not know how to handle it effectively.
But.
If they handed you a Suzuki Swift (WP7 (No idea why I thought of this car: P)) and said they will teach you to drive you'll have no worries buying from them again and buying a slightly (updates) more powerful car next time.
chaoscentral said:
I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a writer/musician so I copy and paste words a lot. I also copy/paste links, etc... when I am sending them out to people on twitter/facebook.
If you look at my previous posts I am been a regular basher of WP7 for last 4 months.. but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels. I dont even have the Nodo update yet on my phone, but I still love this phone more than anything other I have ever used. Great piece of technology, Zune Pass, Marketplace and all Microsoft services run very smooth and just perfect.
I love how quickly I can switch back from Application to another with such a ease. Its great for Multi-tasking. Microsoft has also added little things which makes its very comfortable to use, like when I plug out the earphones, the music player automatically stops and dosents star blaring in phone speakers.
The proximity sensors on Samsung Omnia 7 works great with no fail. So no more of me accidentally taping on screen while on call.. its very handy, every touch phone should have it.
Everything on Windows Phone is smooth and bug free.
It has made buying so easy by billing it straight to my AtnT bill, that I no longer bother to get a 'crack' file and just buy the software if I like the trial. Gone is the software piracy problem, it will kill websites like ppcwarez...
Listening, exploring and buying music is such a nice experience, nothing like that exists in Windows Mobile and could not have been implemented using that platform.
Microsoft did a great work on Windows Phone and I have found new respect for people working their. Congratulations and Thank You.
PS - If only I could disable the Search Button sometimes and had a little longer battery life it would be great.
The shiny will wear off soon enough.
Both have their place, but WM is a bit more flexible and more universally useful ATM, especially an HTC Sense WM device like the HD2.
IMO.
what i liked about windows mobile is whats preventing me from saying wp7 is better.
I know the ui is much more smoother and lag free but i miss being able to wifi tether, use my device as a usb mass storage device, and being able to download albums, rar files, and everything from the web to my storage card on the go and update my library all without the use of a computer, i dont like how wp7 is dependent upon the computer like the iphone is. And i like being able to use the file explorer on windows mobile to manage my files.
i love wp7 and im getting one as soon as verizon launches it but those are some key features that are slightly holding wp7 back
deadwrong03 said:
what i liked about windows mobile is whats preventing me from saying wp7 is better.
I know the ui is much more smoother and lag free but i miss being able to wifi tether, use my device as a usb mass storage device, and being able to download albums, rar files, and everything from the web to my storage card on the go and update my library all without the use of a computer, i dont like how wp7 is dependent upon the computer like the iphone is. And i like being able to use the file explorer on windows mobile to manage my files.
i love wp7 and im getting one as soon as verizon launches it but those are some key features that are slightly holding wp7 back
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you need to remember one thing, Microsoft has upgraded WM 6.5 though several years. So what do you expect on the OS that has just been published for about few months?
Now is time for Microsoft to listen to their user and consider about it. Mango Update look quite bright to me...
Purple11 said:
If you look at my previous posts I am been a regular basher of WP7 for last 4 months.. but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you haven't OWNED a android phone or a current iphone.
Purple11 said:
I dont even have the Nodo update yet on my phone, but I still love this phone more than anything other I have ever used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You state in another post you have been using a 4 or 5 year old winmo phone followed by an old clamshell for 1 year.
Purple11 said:
Great piece of technology, Zune Pass, Marketplace and all Microsoft services run very smooth and just perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure this time? I'ld hate for you to change your mind AGAIN
Purple11 said:
I love how quickly I can switch back from Application to another with such a ease. Its great for Multi-tasking. Microsoft has also added little things which makes its very comfortable to use, like when I plug out the earphones, the music player automatically stops and dosents star blaring in phone speakers.
The proximity sensors on Samsung Omnia 7 works great with no fail. So no more of me accidentally taping on screen while on call.. its very handy, every touch phone should have it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most modern smart phones have working proximity sensors and music player/headset settings
Purple11 said:
Everything on Windows Phone is smooth and bug free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you consider a half finished operating system bug free... by all means
Purple11 said:
It has made buying so easy by billing it straight to my AtnT bill, that I no longer bother to get a 'crack' file and just buy the software if I like the trial. Gone is the software piracy problem, it will kill websites like ppcwarez...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PRAISE THE LORD, he has seen the light, The sinner has been redeemed. WP7 Set him straight and it can work for you too. Nothing more heartwarming than a indecisive ex pirate leech turn over a new leaf simply beacuse he is too lazy/unable to find cracked software for his device. MOAR MORAL LESSONS PLEASE
Purple11 said:
Listening, exploring and buying music is such a nice experience, nothing like that exists in Windows Mobile and could not have been implemented using that platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your educated opinion. No way were there ever marketplaces for Winmo...... Except for the fact theree was. And yes installing .cab files was so difficult, If you were inept.
Purple11 said:
Microsoft did a great work on Windows Phone and I have found new respect for people working their. Congratulations and Thank You.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How heartwarming. well WP7 fanbois your stuck with it now. Try show it an iphone, it'll prob fall in love with that and leave you guys alone.
Purple11 said:
PS - If only I could disable the Search Button sometimes and had a little longer battery life it would be great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BUT U SAYD NO BUGZ LOLZ :cry
hungry81 said:
But you haven't OWNED a android phone or a current iphone.
You state in another post you have been using a 4 or 5 year old winmo phone followed by an old clamshell for 1 year.
Are you sure this time? I'ld hate for you to change your mind AGAIN
Most modern smart phones have working proximity sensors and music player/headset settings
if you consider a half finished operating system bug free... by all means
PRAISE THE LORD, he has seen the light, The sinner has been redeemed. WP7 Set him straight and it can work for you too. Nothing more heartwarming than a indecisive ex pirate leech turn over a new leaf simply beacuse he is too lazy/unable to find cracked software for his device. MOAR MORAL LESSONS PLEASE
Thanks for your educated opinion. No way were there ever marketplaces for Winmo...... Except for the fact theree was. And yes installing .cab files was so difficult, If you were inept.
How heartwarming. well WP7 fanbois your stuck with it now. try show it an iphone itll prob fall in love with that and leave you guys alone.
BUT U SAYD NO BUGZ LOLZ :cry
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha it was fun to read.
Purple11 said:
...but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed... I saw YouTube vids on the first looks at WP7 and thought it looked dull and boring, but after flashing my HD2, the phone is now slick, smooth, alive... I notice everything I do is quicker...
I show my iGroan and Haemorrhoid mates the bing search, pizza, pick a store, get directions... Blows them away!
hungry81 is right in what he's saying.
If you make a new OS, its all about to add new stuff, and update the old stuff, but without quitting anything!!!!
Like windows did, take a look at it, in Win7 we actually have DOS, and the very old win95 Theme, with a very good backward compatibility.
Thats a good job, and I was hoping that microsoft would go on with this positive actitude in mobile devices.
But no, they quit almost everything, everything that made WM so great and different from any other dumbass users OS like Iphone and Blackberry.
And you can't say that's only because the system is new, because as I read in this forum, WP7 is based on windows CE like WM, so nothing revolutionary.
you absolutely can't give props to the marketplace!
With my WM, I go to the internet site or eMule and download every App I need, without having problems to find them with very much good freeware.
With the Marketplace, almost every App has a price, maybe little, but I don't like to pay for something that in the previous platform was for free.
So why does WP7 fail in almost every aspect??? I'm shure, its because they want to stop piracy, so they quit almost every bridge to it (I can't find any other explanation).
No filesystem, no registry editor, no custom setups and even no flash in IE.
Now the biggest question: why do I own a WP7???? The answer is, because Iphone is to expensive and It sucks even more, Blackberry and nokia are not made for such multimedia, and Android, its more like a fashion, maybe its here today but not tomorrow, and WM 6,5 is no longer supported by new apps.
I hope, WP7 will start to live, will get better, and more user-friendly with better Apps support, downloadable directly from the internet site.
My biggest fear, is that what happened to WM, will happen to our main computer, in Windows 8
XxAndrexX said:
hungry81 is right in what he's saying.
If you make a new OS, its all about to add new stuff, and update the old stuff, but without quitting anything!!!!
Like windows did, take a look at it, in Win7 we actually have DOS, and the very old win95 Theme, with a very good backward compatibility.
Thats a good job, and I was hoping that microsoft would go on with this positive actitude in mobile devices.
But no, they quit almost everything, everything that made WM so great and different from any other dumbass users OS like Iphone and Blackberry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what happens to companies that make products that have all these wonderful features that nerds/geeks/techies love but no one else does?
I guess it is to be expected on a geek website that many members are upset with Windows Mobile going from a toolbox to a box of crayons, but somewhere along the way you should be forward-thinking enough to see it had to be done.
When it all boils down to it, in general iOS is better than all the other mobile OSes. Not because it can be more or do more, but because it is the most popular. Imagine if iOS came on several different handsets. So it is not for every specific person but in general it is well suited for most people.
Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'. Microsoft moved on, and I think everyone else should. Some people come into the Windows Mobile forum on a daily basis only intent on bashing the system. Microsoft wants Windows Phone to be the next iOS, not the next Android. Restrictions down to the number of physical buttons, no intended removable storage, and Zune dependent.
And you know the writing is on the wall for Android. What happens when more and more new devices come out with locked bootloaders? What happens when Google starts to tighten up the controls in the system? Business is about being a copycat. 10% innovation, 90% follow the leader.
nicksti said:
You know what happens to companies that make products that have all these wonderful features that nerds/geeks/techies love but no one else does?
I guess it is to be expected on a geek website that many members are upset with Windows Mobile going from a toolbox to a box of crayons, but somewhere along the way you should be forward-thinking enough to see it had to be done.
When it all boils down to it, in general iOS is better than all the other mobile OSes. Not because it can be more or do more, but because it is the most popular. Imagine if iOS came on several different handsets. So it is not for every specific person but in general it is well suited for most people.
Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'. Microsoft moved on, and I think everyone else should. Some people come into the Windows Mobile forum on a daily basis only intent on bashing the system. Microsoft wants Windows Phone to be the next iOS, not the next Android. Restrictions down to the number of physical buttons, no intended removable storage, and Zune dependent.
And you know the writing is on the wall for Android. What happens when more and more new devices come out with locked bootloaders? What happens when Google starts to tighten up the controls in the system? Business is about being a copycat. 10% innovation, 90% follow the leader.
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Click to collapse
hey man you got me wrong. Read accurately.
Microsoft HAD to move to that "innovating" platform, but without quitting the old one.
giving some kind of connection to the old windows mobile options.
So everyone would be happy, the new bunch of stupid IOS-cloned users, and the old freaky nerds
but I'm shure, its for some anti-piracy reason...
One of the reasons why this WP7 is not selling so well
Is it is limited in many areas.
another thing that I didn't mention, is that everyone is saying that WP7 is so easy to use.
I don't like that interface.
I'll tell you why.
I updated from WM6.1 to WM6.5 and I must say, I hated that start menu so much that I went back to WM6.1
Ok, perhaps it's fingerfriendly, for some unsensible fingers.
but I had a hard and frustrating time, finding my apps and setups.
That's because there is no folder rule, something that made so popular windows OS
Same problem has Iphone and Android, and finally WP7.
It may be easy to use if yo have less than 10 apps, but imagine having 30 apps and scrolling like a fool to find your app, that's mixed with the other phone icons.
I'm not an Apps fan, and I always try to have less apps than possible.
But I like it organized, with some folder-gerachy.
Android its scary, its desktop is full of apps icons one time I was 5 minutes searching for the Cam without finding anything. so I let it.
I know everyone is thinking the same, and I don't know why there's people who say that WP7 is cool and the new wave of mobile-OS are the future.
Maybe they have to give a sense to their spent money, or to the fact, that possibly there will be no go back to previous cool features and improvements of WM6.1
doministry said:
One of the reasons why this WP7 is not selling so well
Is it is limited in many areas.
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Click to collapse
I dont think so, I think the reason why maybe its not selling so well is simply because many people are afraid to switch to their trusted Android or Iphone platform to something which is relativly new. But trust me, once they Windows Phone 7 Interface they will never go back.. I have never owned one Iphone or Android phone, but all my friends have them and they all borrow it to me for weeks because I am more tech saavy than them and I load usefull apps for them , so I pretty much know and have tested Iphone and Android at length.. but WP7 is nothing like that..
All my friends who borrowed me their Android and Iphones before now see my WP7 and the smoothness in WP7 and they all just want to instantly switch.. One just need to see it for more than 20 mins in a showroom and actually use the device for a week to see how good WP7 is compared to WM6.5, Iphone or Android.
argentocruz said:
.. Blows them away!
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My WP totally blows all my Iphone and Android users.. they are like 'WTF!!?? This is so nice.:
Lol at this thread... OP, you're entirely right, and it is a wonderful OS. It can only improve from here.
And at the usual people I won't even call by name... Go get some sun on your skins.
The King has no clothes on, http://tinyurl.com/687omad
I sold my WP7 for £300 poor poor beta OS, dual booting my HD2, WM6.5 and Android Gingerbread best of both worlds.
rhory said:
I sold my WP7 for £300
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man, you are a lucky guy........or have you LOST 300????
XxAndrexX said:
another thing that I didn't mention, is that everyone is saying that WP7 is so easy to use.
I don't like that interface.
I'll tell you why.
I updated from WM6.1 to WM6.5 and I must say, I hated that start menu so much that I went back to WM6.1
Ok, perhaps it's fingerfriendly, for some unsensible fingers.
but I had a hard and frustrating time, finding my apps and setups.
That's because there is no folder rule, something that made so popular windows OS
Same problem has Iphone and Android, and finally WP7.
It may be easy to use if yo have less than 10 apps, but imagine having 30 apps and scrolling like a fool to find your app, that's mixed with the other phone icons.
I'm not an Apps fan, and I always try to have less apps than possible.
But I like it organized, with some folder-gerachy.
Android its scary, its desktop is full of apps icons one time I was 5 minutes searching for the Cam without finding anything. so I let it.
I know everyone is thinking the same, and I don't know why there's people who say that WP7 is cool and the new wave of mobile-OS are the future.
Maybe they have to give a sense to their spent money, or to the fact, that possibly there will be no go back to previous cool features and improvements of WM6.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Android supports folders.
Purple11 said:
I dont think so, I think the reason why maybe its not selling so well is simply because many people are afraid to switch to their trusted Android or Iphone platform to something which is relativly new. But trust me, once they Windows Phone 7 Interface they will never go back.. I have never owned one Iphone or Android phone, but all my friends have them and they all borrow it to me for weeks because I am more tech saavy than them and I load usefull apps for them , so I pretty much know and have tested Iphone and Android at length.. but WP7 is nothing like that..
All my friends who borrowed me their Android and Iphones before now see my WP7 and the smoothness in WP7 and they all just want to instantly switch.. One just need to see it for more than 20 mins in a showroom and actually use the device for a week to see how good WP7 is compared to WM6.5, Iphone or Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well definitely there will be many users loving WP7 look and feel.
For me it was opposite - I fell in love once I unboxed it but after 3 months I was having enough of limitations plus honestly UI of WP7 is dead boring after 3 months, some tiles are so horribly unappealing. It seems sometimes like a sketch not finished UI.
But this is taste and individual feeling. Many users will catch it. People I know were not appealed at all. So it's very individual.
And I have no idea in what sense WP7 is "so good" compared to Android or iOS.
I didn't find any real reason.
doministry said:
Well definitely there will be many users loving WP7 look and feel.
For me it was opposite - I fell in love once I unboxed it but after 3 months I was having enough of limitations plus honestly UI of WP7 is dead boring after 3 months, some tiles are so horribly unappealing. It seems sometimes like a sketch not finished UI.
But this is taste and individual feeling. Many users will catch it. People I know were not appealed at all. So it's very individual.
And I have no idea in what sense WP7 is "so good" compared to Android or iOS.
I didn't find any real reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is little if any innovation in WP7. People Hub as already done in TouchWiz. All of the Social integration is pretty much same ole same ole. Apple already had GameCenter. Apple has iPod (i.e. Zune) and you could get All-You-Can-Eat music from services like Rhapsody on other platforms.
Office isn't innovative because ThinkFree and other apps have comparable functionality and integration in other platforms. Also, Office has been in Windows Mobile since 2002 or so... The functionality of Outlook/Office going from WM to WP7 has actually been downgraded quite a lot. For example, WP7 doesn't support Exchange Tasks and the calendar is, IMO, worse...
Nothing great about Push Notifications which are worse and more volatile than any other platform that offers them.
Tiles and Live Tiles are just Widgets with a different look and feel.
Microsoft didn't really innovate any much moving from WM to WP7, and the base OS is still Windows CE. They used Silverlight as a way to decouple the UX from the base OS, but they released it before it was finished (hence why there are 1.5k APIs keeping apps off the platform coming with Mango).
How well WP7 does depends solely on how Android and iOS develop going into the future.
Nokia will help MS but Google has way more manufacturers and Apple will continue to do well building their own handset. Also, with Nokia somewhat abandoning Symbian a lot of their users will jump to Android because WP7 does not have functionality on par with BB/WM/Symbian to allow them to migrade decently form Symbian to WP7. Nokia cannot do that without reworking a bit of the OS and I doubt Microsoft will want them to diverge so far from the reference implementation.
I think in 2010 they lost bigtime because they didn't live up to the hype. The carriers still have as much control over WP7 as they do with Android, and their update system is still only on par with Android and much worse than iOS. In addition, the launch hardware is rather poor and with the i5 coming out soon after Mango, and Android Manufacturers pushing the button (not to mention Google making some pretty good changes in their OS latesly - free Voice/Video Chat in Google Talk?! We don't even have a WLM and it's not slated to even come with Mango!) it will be hard for them to persuade switches. In addition to that, the pitiful state of RTM WP7 has already made them a laughing stock on many tech blogs and among users. They should have waited, IMO.
People who have Android phones won't tell their friends to get WP7 devices because of Google Talk/Services. People with iOS devices will likely push that. People with Blackberries will recommend Blackberries because of BBM, etc. People with WP7 devices are generally on the fence and many are lamenting the purchase. The OS is so functionally thin, and even will still be compared to iOS/Android with Mango, that it's really hard to enjoy it. Android Manufacturers are already getting better with Updates (Samsung leading the pack, suprisingly), so that is already no longer a reason to go with WP7...
A good smartphone will not make you feel like you are hampered because you upgraded from a different OS, and a good smartphone will not force you to double fist two smartphones because it's lacking in so much functionality as to be unusable without a different device to fill in the gaps.
WM had usability issues, but it was a complete smartphone OS.
And BTW, it had nothing to do with it having a decade of development. Even from day one it was never possible to call WM functionally thin compared to anything on the market (Symbian, Blackberry, Palm, etc.). The actual phones/devices running it was a different story.
And as a business user WP7 is practically useless. It isn't even worth consideration. I'd get a Blackberry or Symbian Anna device, instead...