Related
So I was thinking, after a error I received when updating my MCE PC.
In regards of PC when microsoft issues an update of windows 7 they do not have to think to much about hardware it is running on as drivers are done by manufacturer, ATI, Nvidia, intel or other. If they ever release a driver via windows update, any other driver the same, if all goes tits up you can go to safe mode and roll back drivers.
Now in case of WM6.5 drivers or other updates were downloaded from phone manufacturers website so they knew best how to mod it for their hardware and if all went tits up you could do a hard reset. Only good, tested mods went in to rom update.
Now with wp7, if I understand correctly, updates will become part of the original rom as there is no rom flashing by user. It has to be like that as if that would not be the case then hard reset could make the phone broken for hours until all your updates were up. So what if microsoft screws up and gets it wrong on their server and lets say HTC downloads a update for LG? It will screw up the phone and hard reset will not help. It does happen for PC's. With time there will be plenty more hardware out there so mistakes will be more likely. All you need is touch screen drivers to be buggy and phone might boot up but no access to it at all.
Who will take the blame for that? At first it will go back to seller on warranty but if there was a mass problem they would say no.
Look at apple, they release an OS update it is permanent. As they only have like 4 phones to deal with it is easy to test it. With time there will be plenty of wp7 models, just look at wm6.5.
How are we protected from that not happening?
Pretty sure updates are tested extensively by microsoft as well as the carriers.
How would WP7 be different than any other mobile OS in this regard?
i think desktop to phone comparison isn't really correct. with windows phone, MS knows what phones are being made and therefore can keep a proper database of these phones. why? well MS provides keys which get built straight into the memory of the phone (the issue with the HTC HD2 not working with WP7). so you won't just get any joe blogs install windows phone 7 on whatever they feel like it (as you do with wm6.5/android). so therefore, it's very rare that you'll get issues where the phone gets incorrect software not intended for it as MS can manage it properly on their servers, as well as pull anything that were rolled out straight off the phone (e.g. if an app misbehaves but somehow makes it through to marketplace, they can send a command to uninstall the app [same as iOS/Android]).
greener88 said:
Pretty sure updates are tested extensively by microsoft as well as the carriers.
How would WP7 be different than any other mobile OS in this regard?
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On WM6.5 updates are seperate little programs, patches, if one does not work well with your phone or certain app you hard reset and not install it next time.
With WM7 all goes in, updates rom image and you are stuck.
The Gate Keeper said:
i think desktop to phone comparison isn't really correct. with windows phone, MS knows what phones are being made and therefore can keep a proper database of these phones. why? well MS provides keys which get built straight into the memory of the phone (the issue with the HTC HD2 not working with WP7). so you won't just get any joe blogs install windows phone 7 on whatever they feel like it (as you do with wm6.5/android). so therefore, it's very rare that you'll get issues where the phone gets incorrect software not intended for it as MS can manage it properly on their servers, as well as pull anything that were rolled out straight off the phone (e.g. if an app misbehaves but somehow makes it through to marketplace, they can send a command to uninstall the app [same as iOS/Android]).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can compare with desktop, in case of desktop and WM6.5 you could select what to install, also you could always revert back if there were issues. With 6.5 by hard reset and reinstall minus not working app, on PC by rolling back the system.
As said above in WM7 when it is in it is in (that is if I got the info right).
In regards of keys, all you need is typing error. In regards of not working apps there is few that work on some WP7 phones and not others. Mistakes and half finished apps happen. I feel the same will happen with WP7 updates. Probably not now but look 2 years down the line where there will be 100's differant phone models.
Who will test all the updates, not MS and when update is out it is out. If the phone does not boot command to uninstall is not going to help. Especially that we are talking OS update. Apple can not send a command to rollback iphone 3gs from new-est os to one below.
Uh perfect example is apple where first release of iphone 4 os to 3gs did not work to well on all handsets, it was quite slow and they had to make another update. All users that did do it were stuck.
At the end we are talking MS, they do make mistakes. They do a lot of them on normal PC updates where patch does not work as expected.
I think you are mistaken. Every official update that has ever been done on my winmo phones was a full new OS and radio. Complete with hard reset.
nrfitchett4 said:
I think you are mistaken. Every official update that has ever been done on my winmo phones was a full new OS and radio. Complete with hard reset.
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No that is 6.5, wm7 will be more like PC, no rom updating just small patches integrated in to rom via windows update.
ruscik said:
On WM6.5 updates are seperate little programs, patches, if one does not work well with your phone or certain app you hard reset and not install it next time.
With WM7 all goes in, updates rom image and you are stuck.
You can compare with desktop, in case of desktop and WM6.5 you could select what to install, also you could always revert back if there were issues. With 6.5 by hard reset and reinstall minus not working app, on PC by rolling back the system.
As said above in WM7 when it is in it is in (that is if I got the info right).
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ruscik said:
No that is 6.5, wm7 will be more like PC, no rom updating just small patches integrated in to rom via windows update.
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Click to collapse
that was the same on wm6.5 and after a hardreset the update was still there (not working on custom rom's because they ripped the modules )
but MS didn't used it allot , Da_g has a whole thread of it explaining how cooks could use it to update there rom's from there own servers and .cert .
but a lot of cooks won't use this because you cannot protect your rom's any more
and ofcourse not cool for us ORD dud's
Microsoft specify the CPU and chipset to be used by every manufacturer, it is part of the specifications they have to adhere to to be granted a licence to use the WP7 OS.
Therefore the update should never brick the phone, as if it works on one it will work on all. That was kinda the whole point. It's a solution that sits in between the ass-crack tightness of Apple and the Grandma looseness of Android. I call it the Kylie zone.
Jim Coleman said:
Microsoft specify the CPU and chipset to be used by every manufacturer, it is part of the specifications they have to adhere to to be granted a licence to use the WP7 OS.
Therefore the update should never brick the phone, as if it works on one it will work on all. That was kinda the whole point. It's a solution that sits in between the ass-crack tightness of Apple and the Grandma looseness of Android. I call it the Kylie zone.
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Click to collapse
The Kylie zone
On that screens are not the same so here is one, then touch panel on screen, charging units or even sound output sockets. There is a lot. With time also chipsets/CPU will change. Like for example snapdragon 1.5ghz that is somewhere near to come out.
Ceesheim ok so it is there but not used. However you could always revert back to stock rom in 6.5 (unless total brick where bootloader not working) by means of download and flash. For WP7 we do not have that and there is no word about it ever being there officially. So if you brick via update you have to send it for repair.
I suspet MS did not use it to much for the same reason I am thinking off. Look at how many differnat devices there are for 6.5 with hardware ranging from identical to completly different.
I guess time will tell how it will all work, general idea is sound it is just that I do not feel comfortable with fact that if a update screws up my device I have to send it for warranty or shell out for repair.
ruscik said:
The Kylie zone
On that screens are not the same so here is one, then touch panel on screen, charging units or even sound output sockets. There is a lot. With time also chipsets/CPU will change. Like for example snapdragon 1.5ghz that is somewhere near to come out.
Ceesheim ok so it is there but not used. However you could always revert back to stock rom in 6.5 (unless total brick where bootloader not working) by means of download and flash. For WP7 we do not have that and there is no word about it ever being there officially. So if you brick via update you have to send it for repair.
I suspet MS did not use it to much for the same reason I am thinking off. Look at how many differnat devices there are for 6.5 with hardware ranging from identical to completly different.
I guess time will tell how it will all work, general idea is sound it is just that I do not feel comfortable with fact that if a update screws up my device I have to send it for warranty or shell out for repair.
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we can revert back by flashing a new stock rom ( look at http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=783 all the roms there can be used )
there are a lot of people who did that with a phone that had a demo rom (shop phones ) and after flashing a new rom al was working normal .
I'm sure we'll all be totally fine. The bootloader will stay intact, so even if you screw up the normal update. You could always flash the old rom on top with the bootloader still intact.
The only way your idea would work is if the bootloader itself got messed up in the process.
And in 6.5 you couldn't update your HTC Diamond 2 with the normal Diamond, or HD2 firmware. There are checks at the beginning to make sure this is for this exact phone. And in some cases, the checks even implemented being locked down to the region. We only were able to put whatever ROM we wanted to put on our phones when we totally took off that protection. And even then I believe you wouldn't have been able to put a ROM that wasn't meant for the phone on there.
ceesheim said:
we can revert back by flashing a new stock rom ( look at http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=783 all the roms there can be used )
there are a lot of people who did that with a phone that had a demo rom (shop phones ) and after flashing a new rom al was working normal .
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Uh did not see that. Good then.
I am using the Focus and I used the Cheveronupdate tool like as soon as it came out, I have just done a 3min search to see what this update does for the focus. Has anyone else had this occur recently?
And the Update PR stunt (note)
I guess the generic MS saying it will prevent your phone from updating is now proven false as well, granted I don't know if this update has done anything yet since I am on step 7 of it creating a backup file.
ATT Focus
I also used the Chevron Updater and updated to 7390. I received a notification via Zune for the standard update last night and tried to update. Went through all steps and then I got an error 80180005 for which I could find no explanation, but the update failed. I then plugged my USB cable to the back USB ports on my laptop and the installation succeeded and changed the bootloader number, firmware and radio software numbers. These numbers were NOT CHANGED with the NoDo update from the CXhevron Updater method.
This is the Samsung firmware update.
I also unlocked my phone using Chevron to update to NOdO weeks ago but am yet to see the samsung firmware update.
buffalosolja42 said:
I guess the generic MS saying it will prevent your phone from updating is now proven false as well, granted I don't know if this update has done anything yet since I am on step 7 of it creating a backup file.
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Click to collapse
Not quite the case.
@BrandonWatson said:
@Strider_Aus our guidance remains - Walshed phones will not update past NoDo (specififcally build 7390)
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Click to collapse
well mine went through
without a hitch yes OS revision numbers didn't change and I am not sure about firmware. Can't tell you that I see any difference right now.
capacitive buttons should be less sensitive, and dont work if you press the screen on a different place at the same time (for gaming or video playback etc, accidently hitting back button, it should be disabled now)
camera should auto default to anti-shake setting ON.
screen should be responsive even on a soft surface (pillow)
this is what I read, not sure, can people confirm this? Is this also for the omnia7? Mine is at the store for repair but these things were some annoying things and will be nice if they are fixed on the omnia as well.
I installed the release version of Mango today, and all of the apps that would take advantage of the compass report there is no compass. When I run the diagnosis tool, I can see there's a compass (not particularly accurate, but it's there). Is this expected? I thought with Mango the support for the compass API would be in.
The diagnosis tool is from Samsung, and has always had support for the compass. If other apps are reporting that no compass is present, it means you didn't get the latest Samsung firmware when you upgraded to Mango.
The easiest way to test it is the Compass 7 app. I have that on my Focus, and it works fine. The implementation of the app is non-intuitive (the needle moves around a stationary compass to indicate your current heading, rather than pointing to north).
Sadness. My phone doesn't work with Compass 7, and now I have no idea why I didn't get the firmware or what to do about it.
The first thing I would try is to restore NoDo on your phone and go through the update again. During the Mango update, the information block should note that the Samsung update is bundled with it (at the bottom of the block of text).
BTW, did you use the disconnect trick, or did you receive the update notice?
I used the disconnect trick. I can easily go back to Nodo and just wait for it to update me without the disconnect trick if you think that'll make a difference.
It is a tough call. I wouldn't want to give up Mango after seeing how much it adds to my phone, but it realistically it shouldn't be more than a week or two until you get the notice. The problem is, I just don't see how the disconnect trick could explain what happened to you.
Focus Rev 1.3
My ATT Focus was updated to Mango and I have the compass enabled, using Compass 7. As a poster mentioned, it is counter intuitive but it works. When I upgraded from 7390, I forced the update using the disconnect method and got all of the updates, including one defined as Samsung (the final one). Worked for me.
Compass
Just to report I have a Samsung Focus Ver. 1.3 that I upgraded to Mango Sept. 27. I just downloaded compass 7 and it worked just fine. I simply followed the directions to calibrate it and it found North.
Running a samsung focus 1.3 and ive hard reset 2 times and reinstalled mango and never got the samsung update. No compass for me
JamesAllen said:
My ATT Focus was updated to Mango and I have the compass enabled, using Compass 7. As a poster mentioned, it is counter intuitive but it works. When I upgraded from 7390, I forced the update using the disconnect method and got all of the updates, including one defined as Samsung (the final one). Worked for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did the samsung update change your firmware version?
if so, which versions you had before the update and now?
how many fps you get on the speed reading test?
thanks
i can install compass 7 but its not pointing north, i have the compass option on the diagnosis menu, the X,Y,Z values change, but the compass doesnt.... is this normal?
RoboDad said:
The problem is, I just don't see how the disconnect trick could explain what happened to you.
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I have a vague suspicion that I unbranded my phone in the past to get NoDo. Sadly, I'm having trouble remembering exactly what I did, and forum search is currently down.
I'm fairly confident the Samsung Focus / Omnia 7 doesn't have a compass.
From my own testing, any Mango compass APIs are reporting are inaccurate.
My Focus most definitely has a compass. Even before Mango the Samsung Diagnosis app contained a test menu that had a compass selection, and it worked very accurately. And since Mango, I have tried three different Mango-specific compass apps from the marketplace, and all of them correctly pointed north.
Set HKLM/System/Platform/DeviceTargetingInfo/MobileOperator to "000-88" without quotes of course. You possibly unbranded it and set it to empty which won't work. Also try the network pull trick.
fed44 said:
Set HKLM/System/Platform/DeviceTargetingInfo/MobileOperator to "000-88" without quotes of course. You possibly unbranded it and set it to empty which won't work. Also try the network pull trick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to, but my device became locked after I did the registry change and upgraded.
So I popped an old rom onto the Focus to take me back to NoDo unbranded, and then did all the upgrades again. I FINALLY got the Samsung firmware upgrade that came out around NoDo, and sure enough my navigation now works. I've also noticed (though without much sampling) that my Bluetooth audio to my car no longer occasionally cuts out. I'm curious if I'll see other improvements, but I'm delighted so far.
This is an issue for my Focus. The compasses in the market don't work worth a flip. The needle barely moves and never points in the proper direction.
weird....Kitendo Lab Compass works just fine but Outdoor Navigation said it can not use the digital compass chip at this moment.
Outdoor Navigation still hasn't been updated to Mango, so it can't use the compass.
i finally got my focus working as a compass
i have a focus rev 1.3 with all of the updates
os 7.10.7720.68
firmware 2103.11.8.1
and the compass just did not work.
in the Samsung diag i did not see any numbers moving and none of the app i loaded would calibrate or work at all.
i finally did a help chat with Samsung and they did not have much helpful to say, but they had me remove the battery for a little while and the boot the phone again. and after that i could see that the compass was working, although very out of calibration. it took a while to get the movements right to calibrate it, but now it seems to be working with several compass app i have tried.
i hope this helps. i was very frustrated for a couple of weeks until i got it working about half an hour ago.
I posted this to the Arrive forum, but wanted to see if anyone else with an HTC phone is having problems.
I have the Arrive, as does my wife and my friend. All three of us have the Mango update. The HTC Compass, as well as SkyMaps, and Compass 7, all programs that use the compass APIs are not working. The compass shows pointing to the right, or not pointing anywhere near North.
Anyone else having this problem?
cyclical said:
I posted this to the Arrive forum, but wanted to see if anyone else with an HTC phone is having problems.
I have the Arrive, as does my wife and my friend. All three of us have the Mango update. The HTC Compass, as well as SkyMaps, and Compass 7, all programs that use the compass APIs are not working. The compass shows pointing to the right, or not pointing anywhere near North.
Anyone else having this problem?
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Click to collapse
Just testing the HTC Compass on my HD7 and it works :-\ Did it ever work?
yeah worked on my Arrive while it was on NoDo
Worked for me before the official update. I had the mango beta working and the compass was jittery, but worked. Now it just sits there...
HD7
Then your phone doesn't have all available updates with all drivers. After the mango update zune pops out another update with a new boot loader and hardware drivers. After this the compass should work.
HTC Compass
Use this working compass on Mango
No, even the HTC compass doesn't work on my HTC Mozart (Mango).
i use this compass on mango and it works perfect
Only htc_compass works fine, other app say: no compass
Sent from my HTC 7 Pro using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
My hd7 compass doesn't work after mango update
I've try more than three application that use compass and ell given
that my device doesn't support compass
please help to get it work
If your compass does not work, then as someone said above, you do not have all the drivers necessary. You not only need Windows Phone Mango, you also need the appropriate update from your phone manufacturer (HTC, Samsung, whoever). This second update will provide your phone with the necessary drivers.
If you didn't get the alert for it after the Mango update was complete, try checking again, or it may simply have yet to be pushed to your phone and is taking some extra time to show up for you.
Its like running Windows without the proper drivers for your video card or whatever. You need the real drivers from the manufacturer in order to take advantage of all that your hardware has to offer.
Well its been a few weeks and I haven't gotten any additional driver pushes from HTC for my Arrive or my wifes.
Having same problem on my Omnia 7, all apps show "Compass interference".. :/
Other posts here also say the same thing and its not just HTC, its Samsung, Dell etc and reading the other posts it seems the manufacturers are not going to post new drivers.
Only devices shipped from the manufacturer with Mango factory loaded seem to be the only ones with working compass (bit like the built in wifi router is only on new mango devices)
We need a developer to try and extract the drivers from a factory Mango device and turn this into a cab so we can update our devices.
dr_strangetrick said:
Other posts here also say the same thing and its not just HTC, its Samsung, Dell etc and reading the other posts it seems the manufacturers are not going to post new drivers.
Only devices shipped from the manufacturer with Mango factory loaded seem to be the only ones with working compass (bit like the built in wifi router is only on new mango devices)
We need a developer to try and extract the drivers from a factory Mango device and turn this into a cab so we can update our devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its annoying, as the compass worked just fine under NoDo.
Nodo does not have compass support, there were no apps in the marketplace with compass features.
HTC had their own compass app which worked directly with the hardware, now Mango has been released this includes the compass api and as such Microsoft have removed the HTC compass application from the marketplace and we have a multitude of alternative compass apps.
Fingers crossed someone can produce a fix for us.
Got a replacement 7 Pro from HTC which was still on NoDo. Just had 3 software updates to bring it up to Mango, and the compass now works!
HTC Compass is still available in the HTC marketplace. Skymap Free triggered a "figure of 8" calibration routine which I'd not seen before. After that, HTC Compass, Compass VO, Mango Compass and Skymap Free "point to sky" all work OK.
These definitely didn't work under Mango on my last 7 Pro so perhaps
a) there is a change in the firmware, or
b) updating from RTM misses out the drivers
c) triggering the calibration routine is key to enabling the API?
updating from RTM misses out the drivers
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Other threads have just started to notice that the 'official' update works whereas users who 'tricked' Zune to download Mango are the ones suffering now as they would have just dowloaded the Mango software only update.
Microsoft do not supply the hardware drivers so they have the latest software but as forced the download it looks like Zune is ignoring the manufacturers update (possibly because it thinks its already been done)
These updates have literally only just started to come through and I suspect someone will post them.
dr_strangetrick said:
Other threads have just started to notice that the 'official' update works whereas users who 'tricked' Zune to download Mango are the ones suffering now as they would have just dowloaded the Mango software only update.
Microsoft do not supply the hardware drivers so they have the latest software but as forced the download it looks like Zune is ignoring the manufacturers update (possibly because it thinks its already been done)
These updates have literally only just started to come through and I suspect someone will post them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I forced mango update onto my phone and recieved the updated firmware as well. Just like many others did. So no, you're wrong here.
dr_strangetrick said:
Nodo does not have compass support, there were no apps in the marketplace with compass features.
HTC had their own compass app which worked directly with the hardware, now Mango has been released this includes the compass api and as such Microsoft have removed the HTC compass application from the marketplace and we have a multitude of alternative compass apps.
Fingers crossed someone can produce a fix for us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HTC Compass app was removed from the marketplace for a few days, but it is available for download for HTC phones again. However, that APP also does not work directly with the phone any longer after Mango.
I've a Win Jr LTE phone & the update ran while I was out, despite telling it not to run updates without my express permission - it has now screwed up touchscreen so the phone is entirely unusable. Does anyone have any suggestions?
NB: telling me to "do a hard reset & lose everything" is NOT a suggestion I want to hear, since its not a viable option in this case, since backup on the phone hasn't worked since I got it on multiple cards & via onedrive.
I can't use browser or keyboard, anything with controls at bottom of screen is useless, there (of course) is no obvious way of re calibrating touch screen so the phone is effectively useless.
Apologies if in wrong place but the site doesn't seem to do anything other than lag, or make choices for me I didn't select.
I would strongly recommend NOT installing this (version ends. 67) as it appears as buggy as usual Microsoft efforts and has been bricking some phones completely I have since found out.
Jemma
the issue is known (by now, think it wasnt the prior cause otherwise the device should not have received the update). the problem is somehow the os uses a wrong resolution 540X960 instead of 480X854 which ****s up the touch
two options: opt in into release-preview-ring of the insiderprogram and get the .82. maybe it already fixed the problem. second option: going back...
use external display application on your pc or pair a bluetooth mouse/keyboard if its impossible to reach the insider options (be ware: if you havent signed up as insider before it may take up to 24hrs till you will find new builds)
Yeah, I had guessed it must be something like that, because the touchscreen reacts differently from one side to other and from top to bottom.
It's frustrating though because I can remember screw ups like this from Microsoft 20 years ago and they're still making same elementary mistakes, and it's not as if specs for these phones are hard to find or there's unknown multitudes of windows 10 phones out there, like with Android..
Windows 10 honestly has the potential to be excellent but if someone with 20 years IT engineering experience can't fix it for herself because the tools just aren't there then what hope non technical people? And they are just the people who will give Windows 10 traction.
Has anyone managed to find any files that set environment variables like in android?
PS if someone builds an equivalent of the Nokia E7 running Android or Windows 10 let me know, I'll happily bite their hands off, much prefer a good hardware kbd.
im pretty sure there is no way on the blu devices to interop it and made registry editing possible (should be an easy task to modify the setting for the screen resolution). you could sideloading vcreg after activating dev mode, but im pretty sure it wont be able to write reg values and cant research atm where the value for the resolution is stored
vcreg works only on Lumia
I've tried the feedback and the insider updates and I can't get to either of them because of the screen. Is it possible someone could put this up on feedback for me as I'm sure I'm not the only person with this issue.. Microsoft would only have to release a very small patch fix to solve this issue..
Thanks in advance