Related
Well, if HTC won't do it, someone needs to... I want to see if it can be done. Can we create our own ATi Imageon Drivers for the MSM7200/7500?
step 1: Find out which Imageon is in there...
Here's the official list
I just hope it's not some custom job!
Think it's worth a go?
^^Bump^^
This definitely needs to be done. I wish I had the know how to develop this but unfortunately I don't.
you should really try posting this somewhere else, like maybe in the development and hacking forum, since the vogue is not the only device that suffers from this.
this is really a great idea in my opinion, and im sure there are those out there that know how to get it done!
Would be awesome, but it seems like it would be a huge undertaking. I'd imagine that Qualcomm has it locked in some way, preventing it's use if the license to use that component wasn't purchased as part of the hardware platform. I really have no idea though. I'll keep hoping : )
A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step... we have a ton of talent here, HTC and Qualcomm don't seem to want to release it... I think that it might be time to start building our own.
Post copied to development and hacking but I quoted first post of this thread to give proper credit for the idea.
I remember reading somewhere that there is actually a $2000 (and growing) cash prize for the msm 7xxx drivers. Totally support the idea.
yep... I think it's up to 7 grand now.
I'm going to wait until the end of March before I start anything.
Draiko said:
yep... I think it's up to 7 grand now.
I'm going to wait until the end of March before I start anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well if anyone could point me to link i willing to offer 200 to play quake on my phone
problem is that writing device drivers is the hardest program one can get into
the driver is limited to a very tiny mem footprint and must never be alowed to crash
even if the memory it's using is lost on the heap
and one needs access to alot of whitepapirs from the hardware maker
which is prob why htc did such a poor job writing then driver themselfs
because they were too cheap to pay qualcomm for it
Rudegar said:
problem is that writing device drivers is the hardest program one can get into
the driver is limited to a very tiny mem footprint and must never be alowed to crash
even if the memory it's using is lost on the heap
and one needs access to alot of whitepapirs from the hardware maker
which is prob why htc did such a poor job writing then driver themselfs
because they were too cheap to pay qualcomm for it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not supposed to rain on parade day...
I used to write assembly language device drivers for embedded real-time systems. Doing so requires a high level of knowledge, experience and documentation WRT:
1. Dev & testing tools and environment
2. The target hardware (detailed doc)
3. The target OS kernel and driver hooks
4. System-level programming mind-set (different from app dev)
Quite interesting and rewarding if you have the above - quite difficult, bordering on 'not gonna happen' if you don't.
Sincere best wishes to those who give it a shot!
My entire impetus for this thread was to start gathering people with the skills and talent needed to tackle driver construction. If open-source maniacs can do it, we can too. I have some experience with assembly... the tricky part is going to be finding out the specific commands, paths, and function calls for the embedded hardware. There's going to be a LOT of trial and error involved.
I'm starting to look for the Windows CE DDK right now. Come April 1st, if there is no word from HTC, Qualcomm, or Sprint on this driver issue, I'm going to round up as many capable people as I can and try to hammer this out.
Something that might shed some more light on the entire driver issue... Uh oh
Big Uh oh...
if this ever comes together fully it will be really cool but i still dont get why SE didnt include drivers in the first place??
comeradealexi said:
if this ever comes together fully it will be really cool but i still dont get why SE didnt include drivers in the first place??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As posted before, they probably bought it at a cheaper price by having the drivers restricted. If they were to pay full price then maybe the driver would have been included. It's kind of what Palm did back in the day when they could have spent the extra $.05 for a higher quality speaker but didn't on the Palm III series. I'm pretty sure this is a cost cutting technique used by most electronics manufacturers.
if im paying £500 for a device why not stick $0.5 on the bill! thats a shame
Damn right. I agree with all you guys.
The fact that I cannot get graphics hardware acceleration from a 500 USD+ device is absolutely ridiculous.
I love my Xperia X1, but in hindsight, I would've NEVER supported any product like this had I known it was the case.
Shame on HTC and Sony for swindling their customer from the "rich, multimedia experience" they promise so much.
Bastard Sony/HTC.
well boot android and youll have more qualcomm support..since they own the gpu chip msm7xxx devices uses now, thats what chipset all official android handsets use, even non htc android phones.
ajclai08 said:
well boot android and youll have more qualcomm support..since they own the gpu chip msm7xxx devices uses now, thats what chipset all official android handsets use, even non htc android phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and thus, there is driver support natively in android for us?
If that's true, what's stopping us from reverse-engineering the android driver and building a WinMo driver?
If we had a starting point, it's feasible--but without a starting point (or white papers), it's impossible.
i completely agree with this we have waited enough for the garbage companies to put out. Ive gone through three HTC phones already with graphics Acceleration turned OFF... WTF!!!
* Mod EDIT *
Thread closed until moderation team has had an opportunity to properly review as a result of soliciting donations.
Hey everyone,
As you may all know, there’s a fairly large demand to put Android on the Omnia. After researching it myself, I decided since no one else is doing it I’ll take the incentive and give it my best shot. Don’t get too excited, since I may not get very far. But before I begin, there’re three questions I have to ask:
*NOTE: I own a Verizon i910 Omnia*
1. How do I extract the bootloader, kernel, and rom from the device? I’ve tried all sorts of rom kitchens and utilities and the things I get are either useless or work but only with i900 roms I downloaded and therefore not very helpful.
2. I need to disassemble WM’s device drivers (for the screen, touchscreen, buttons to start), and port them to a custom Linux kernel (that’s what Android will be placed on top of). What software do you recommend (for disassembling WM drivers for ARM in PE format)? A day’s worth of google searching turned up little to nothing.
3. This will involve flashing my one and only Omnia with bootloaders, kernels, and roms that, in all likelihood, will brick my device as I test it. I read in certain places something about a “jtag” cable. Can I use this to flash data directly to the chips without any kind of software running on the phone? If so, what kind of information can you provide? I don’t really care about my warranty, considering what I’m going to do to it To rephrase the question, what options (besides returning the phone) do I have to recover it if it gets bricked?
If anyone wants to offer their support I’d really appreciate it. I need people experienced with the inner workings of a WM device and also people experienced in Linux, specifically device drivers.
it would be great if you could install the Android OS. but i think we need to wait for the official drivers for Android, even if they would be released by Samsung. i start thinking it is impossible.
I honestly doubt Samsung will go the extra mile for a single product (even one as awesome as the Omnia) and port an entirely different operating system to just one of their products. This is one we're gonna have to do ourself. It is possible to do, I'm just stuck right now because I don't know how to dump the i910's rom, which contains all the device drivers I need to make a full-featured port of Android possible. This is what I need help with. It's really not that impossible, it just takes a bit of work.
Mods, could you move this thread to "development and hacking"? It would probably be seen by the people I want it to be seen by there. Thanks.
hey..dude.. checkup this from this group of ppl @
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=431329
may be u can join ..
Hey Guys, I've got an Omnia as well and really really want Android on it. Although I am unable to script. I thought of a way to contribute a bit as well. I set up a website to raise money for the first person or organisation that pulls it off to run Android on the Omnia.
Have a look here:
I chipped in a €100 myself as well to make a start. I hope you guys can contribute some money as well so that it motivates the developers even more.
For the developers out there: "We know you can do it!"
* Mod EDIT *
Link Removed
How can an project be real. If Basics are unknown?
Qualcomm, QCT Tools, Firmware structure etc...
For study:
http://www.4shared.com/file/108584795/bb49ee52/I900_090226.html
Big thanx to barisyalcin.
For Android on Omnia. Good Luck.
The way is the Destination.
Best Regards
Why even bother installing a shell?
the android on the omnia only installs a shell compound, it does not actually convert the omnia into a full fledged Android phone.
I would just scrap it and pick up an actual android phone.
Saw you could find an ARM platform that did not have secureboot forced on. Assuming the peripherals are similar (i.e. the included drivers work), shouldn't windows rt boot on that hardware?
Once you got it to boot without secureboot enabled on the hardware, shouldn't it be trivial to do some binary slicing and dicing to cut the signature checking out of the kernel?
It seems too easy. Where does my line of though fail?
In theory, yes. "Trivial" is hardly accurate, but it would be relatively easy. Of course, on hardware without Secure Boot enabled, you wouldn't need to do that in the first place; there are ways to disable the signature checks at boot time (but Secure Boot blocks them).
In practice, good look finding anything that *isn't* a Windows RT tablet but which has firmware Windows RT can run on. ARM isn't much like x86, where everything is designed to be compatible with everything else. Even relatively simple ports of open-source OSes (Linux, including Android, for example) are difficult and typically fraught with driver issues. RT is not open source, and is targeted at very specific hardware. Frankly, I would give poor odds of success. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try, if you get the opportunity, but don't hold your breath or expect somebody to do it for you just because it's "easy".
GoodDayToDie said:
In theory, yes. "Trivial" is hardly accurate, but it would be relatively easy. Of course, on hardware without Secure Boot enabled, you wouldn't need to do that in the first place; there are ways to disable the signature checks at boot time (but Secure Boot blocks them).
In practice, good look finding anything that *isn't* a Windows RT tablet but which has firmware Windows RT can run on. ARM isn't much like x86, where everything is designed to be compatible with everything else. Even relatively simple ports of open-source OSes (Linux, including Android, for example) are difficult and typically fraught with driver issues. RT is not open source, and is targeted at very specific hardware. Frankly, I would give poor odds of success. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try, if you get the opportunity, but don't hold your breath or expect somebody to do it for you just because it's "easy".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah, I'm the hardware guy. This hairbrained idea is all on me.
From what I see, RT uses class drivers where it can, to keep function as generic and widely supported as possible. That should help with a good bit of it. Far as the rest, there are a LOT of drivers for it out there between windows phone and windows RT and not that much ARM hardware that is a suitable factor. That should help narrow it down a lot.
I'm gonna make an order from china and warm up my heat gun...
Good luck! Let us know.
BTW, not sure how useful WP8 drivers will be. Even leaving aside the fact that most tablets won't have much phone hardware (possibly some, though) the kernel is pretty different. They're both technically NT 6.2 (or 6.3) and so drivers may be compatible at the ABI layer, don't be too sure. The phone kernel is very slimmed down and missing a lot of stuff. Win32k.sys, for example, only has about 1/3 the entry points that it does on the desktop (or on RT).
GoodDayToDie said:
Good luck! Let us know.
BTW, not sure how useful WP8 drivers will be. Even leaving aside the fact that most tablets won't have much phone hardware (possibly some, though) the kernel is pretty different. They're both technically NT 6.2 (or 6.3) and so drivers may be compatible at the ABI layer, don't be too sure. The phone kernel is very slimmed down and missing a lot of stuff. Win32k.sys, for example, only has about 1/3 the entry points that it does on the desktop (or on RT).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If RT has more entry points than WP (and the drivers don't use to WP-unique parts of the kernel), then they should plug in fine. At least as far as that goes. I would expect the other way around (RT driver on WP, assuming signing is turned off) would not have a chance of working though. It is POSSIBLE that something as simple as the Bluetooth HID binaries would work, given that WP already has more BT support and HID support. But I wouldn't spend the time on anything more complex than that, going that way.
I never used Linux never knew anyone who has. What can you run on Linux game wise? Can you play any Windows games on Linux? What is the newest version of Linux? How do you buy computer parts to make a Linux computer? All I ever seen is Windows logo on parts. Whats the advantages compared to Windows? How does one get it one a computer does if come on a disk or flash someplace?
Thank you
Rbohannon89 said:
I never used Linux never knew anyone who has. What can you run on Linux game wise? Can you play any Windows games on Linux? What is the newest version of Linux? How do you buy computer parts to make a Linux computer? All I ever seen is Windows logo on parts. Whats the advantages compared to Windows? How does one get it one a computer does if come on a disk or flash someplace? Thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't used Linux directly in quite a long time but, the following threads may be helpful in understanding it a bit better. Don't be afraid to ask for some member guidance within one of them too.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1459153
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2723240
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3300596
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3530696
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2885245
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1076138
There's others out there but, this will give you a good start...
Good Luck!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I DO NOT provide support via PM unless asked/requested by myself. PLEASE keep it in the threads where everyone can share.
I looked at them but that didn't answer any my question.
There is Steam on Linux. And lot of games are available on Linux. You can't play all windows games on Linux .
http://store.steampowered.com/linux
Windows is like an LTS OS if compared to Linux.
So Ubuntu 16.04 is a safe.
Some OS are updated on daily basis like Arch , Debian.
Some every 6 months like Linux Mint & Ubuntu ,
Linux runs on everything. So basically , as long as you have a computing device.
As far as custom Linux PC is concerned, checkout System76.
https://system76.com/
There are nice builds and they come with good support.
karandpr said:
There is Steam on Linux. And lot of games are available on Linux. You can't play all windows games on Linux .
http://store.steampowered.com/linux
Windows is like an LTS OS if compared to Linux.
So Ubuntu 16.04 is a safe.
Some OS are updated on daily basis like Arch , Debian.
Some every 6 months like Linux Mint & Ubuntu ,
Linux runs on everything. So basically , as long as you have a computing device.
As far as custom Linux PC is concerned, checkout System76.
https://system76.com/
There are nice builds and they come with good support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is the advantages and disadvantages in having linux? Also what do most people use it for everyday personal use?
Rbohannon89 said:
What is the advantages and disadvantages in having linux? Also what do most people use it for everyday personal use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Linux just works. Windows has lot of software. Mac is really optimized.
People use Linux to devlop software mostly. Cos it's has great support for development and most servers run on linux.
Windows is still for people who want variety of software and games.
karandpr said:
Linux just works. Windows has lot of software. Mac is really optimized.
People use Linux to devlop software mostly. Cos it's has great support for development and most servers run on linux.
Windows is still for people who want variety of software and games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So can I can play Windows games somehow? I'm only asking cause I'm thinking of buying a older laptop to experiment with and always curious about Linux. Wanted to play with Linux and learn it. Thanks for the response.
Rbohannon89 said:
So can I can play Windows games somehow? I'm only asking cause I'm thinking of buying a older laptop to experiment with and always curious about Linux. Wanted to play with Linux and learn it. Thanks for the response.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are lot of steam games for linux . Older games can be played using Wine or Crossover...
Don't expect to play newer games due to graphics card limitations. (DirectX and Video graphics drivers cause issues.)
Rbohannon89 said:
So can I can play Windows games somehow? I'm only asking cause I'm thinking of buying a older laptop to experiment with and always curious about Linux. Wanted to play with Linux and learn it. Thanks for the response.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An older laptop would be a good way to start. Since it's an older laptop I don't imagine there will be an expectation to play new games on it, Windows or otherwise. Still, remains a great way to dip in and and look at Linux's potential.
Also, the make and model of the laptop can determine how well it is suited for Linux (you have mentioned the Windows stickers earlier - especially recently manufacturers have been making it difficult to allow the switch to Linux), can do a web search with 'linux' in the search, or a distribution. e.g. ...
Code:
linux support lenovo t420
debian support lenovo t420
Lenovo, HP, and Dell are big names that appear to play nice (and System76 makes PC's for Linux). Others, can be like rolling the dice.
And when I hint at a difficult time, it's usually the wi-fi, sometimes the trackpad, maybe sound, rarely something very important like video.
Not saying this to discourage, only to suggest research when it comes to any equipment, old or new. Hopefully the toughest thing would be deciding which distribution to choose - I'm enough of an old fogey to stick to versioned, long-term releases like Debian and avoid the bleeding edge "rolling releases" provide.
Hope this helps.
Oh (looking back to the first post), advantages (which are in the eye of the beholder since they can potentially hold a disadvantage):
Free (as in freedom). I like to be able to vote with my dollar, even though Linux users are rarely obligated to pay for software. This is a philosophical reason, and one can go deep down that rabbit hole, what I like is, nothing is hidden from the public eye since the software is often accompanied by source code, on request. Which makes it difficult for say, a search assistant to send unknown data back to the mother ship.
Variety of experience. If you don't like an application, a windows manager, heck even the init process, you can replace it with something else or even write your own.
Support for older hardware. Often the method to revive a five to ten (sometimes quite older - I occasionally run an up-to-date Linux-powered laptop from 2002 with very satisfactory results) year old device for a new life.
Thank you so much for the replies. What kind of hardware and era should I look for to make a smart decision to what kind of laptop to get? From someone who has never ever used linux or even seen it only used windows how hard is the learning curb? Can I load it on the the pc and just go for it or will I be massively confused?
Rbohannon89 said:
Thank you so much for the replies. What kind of hardware and era should I look for to make a smart decision to what kind of laptop to get? From someone who has never ever used linux or even seen it only used windows how hard is the learning curb? Can I load it on the the pc and just go for it or will I be massively confused?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would go for a once-mid-to-high-end laptop of about six years old (newer run but still holding the Windows 7 stickers), from a vendor I noted before. It does not guarantee complete compatibility so you would still want to cross reference the model number.
I am not a fan of "chiclet" keyboards (I have enough difficulty typing on laptop keyboards) and have fond memories of the IBM ThinkPads (I used to own the popular 600X) that I maintain one of the final bastions before Lenovo took design tips from Apple (by the way, I hear MacBooks can have reasonable compatibility as well, though there would be an extra premium there).
For a laptop longevity perspective (the second thing to look for), a "flagship" laptop from a vendor (especially from Apple or Lenovo) means better access to (and thus generally less expensive) spare parts. To identify this on the Lenovo side, it would mean part of the "T" or "X" lineup (both are business grade; the X models just have a smaller footprint). For what it's worth, business-grade HP laptops are the "ProBook" series.
From what I understand, the learning curve is not that difficult. There have been people who knew nothing about computers that learned Linux quite easily. The challenge for a Windows user trying Linux becomes "un-learning" specific workflow to make way for new ways of doing things. Apologies I can only be general - me trying to share my experience with the learning curve is difficult since that transition was about two decades ago and Microsoft drastically changed the typical user's workflow three times between the early 1990's of my first computer and the year 2000 (MS-DOS -> Windows 3.1 -> Windows 95 -> NT5) that makes the transition from Windows 7 to 8 to 10 look like a food fight. The first year I was quite reliant on a guru (I was in the expectation to accelerate my knowledge for an upcoming project) until I was directed to not use that as a crutch. A bit sad to say, that moment I was told to "RTFM" for a simple problem was when I really started to learn.
But I would definitely not dive into the deep end (as they say) by wiping your main computer for Linux. For starters, even with decent backups (which you should be doing anyway), your data can be inaccessible (installing Linux on a fully set up PC means losing all your personal files there, and if your backup tool to other media is done by a Windows program, Linux may not support restoring that data).
It is also a quick way to become frustrated when hitting even a small roadblock. I would not use "confused" as asked above for this phenomenon. When you combine the impact of the problem with the time in which you would need it resolved by, it can create a sort of desperation on a forum when the answer could have been glaring back without realizing it. Depending on how well documented the issue's solution is (and when a problem that prevents the achievement of a deadline occours on short notice, blind spots tend to happen to even the best of us), would-be readers get frustrated as well and may criticize the lack of research. An exaggerated XDA example of this is when someone flashes a ROM on their daily driver, without any backups first, without wiping anything, and then frantic that their only phone has app force closures every five seconds - and the plane for their two week trip leaves in six hours. In short, a dedicated device to play on means you set the pace on how you want to learn.
A dedicated laptop would be the better way to go. For a no-cost (no additional hardware to buy) demo of Linux, can try a live CD (will also determine how your hardware can interact with Linux) or maintain a persistent instance through an install in Oracle VirtualBox or VMWare (which Linux will work even if your hardware does not play with Linux). Much further away from recommended territory we have the "cold turkey" method (gripes noted in previous two paragraphs), and finally - for a reason - dual-boot (which has to opportunity to hose one or both operating systems at any given moment - including your data - for as something as simple as a Windows Update).
This turned out to be longer than expected, but I hope this helps.
So it's been about 20 I don't know it's been about since 1997 that I played the Linux or Kali nethunter I was wondering if these are possible put on my smg900v or piece of crap that's the original smart phone from Samsung I don't remember the name but it still on Android Jelly Bean I believe was interested if I could take my two older phones and wipe the OS completely and make them nothing but Linux because I used to have a lot of fun with that we used to stay up and drink beers and play on it you know and then it went away in 2008 and I haven't had a cell phone in years because my work gave me one any advice would be appreciated but my youngest son would probably really be interested in it are you having dyslexia try to get him in anything also I found back in the day where they used to convert that phone to be 2G but I can't find anything but the source code and I don't know how to completely enter source code into an Android phone I had a computer I can do it on the computer but not a phone
averydiablo said:
So it's been about 20 I don't know it's been about since 1997 that I played the Linux or Kali nethunter I was wondering if these are possible put on my smg900v or piece of crap that's the original smart phone from Samsung I don't remember the name but it still on Android Jelly Bean I believe was interested if I could take my two older phones and wipe the OS completely and make them nothing but Linux because I used to have a lot of fun with that we used to stay up and drink beers and play on it you know and then it went away in 2008 and I haven't had a cell phone in years because my work gave me one any advice would be appreciated but my youngest son would probably really be interested in it are you having dyslexia try to get him in anything also I found back in the day where they used to convert that phone to be 2G but I can't find anything but the source code and I don't know how to completely enter source code into an Android phone I had a computer I can do it on the computer but not a phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The closest thing you can do is run linux with chroot.
Here is a good post to get you started.
https://www.xda-developers.com/guid...a-gnulinux-environment-on-any-android-device/
Hardware/software wise, open schematics, binary blob free?
Pretty much not open at all.
I believe it lacks mainline support, needs blobs (and they only exist for Android, so you need to use libhybris for other operating systems to work), and I'm not aware of schematics or freely licensed designs or anything of that sort.
You can unlock the bootloader, you can flash another OS to it. It's maybe on-par with a OnePlus phone in that sense, but quite a bit worse off in terms of popularity and community support.
The MediaTek SoC I think is the root of a lot of the issues. I think MediaTek devices tend to be hard to support. MediaTek themselves are probably rather anti-freedom.
The device and Planet Computers have been a pretty big disappointment in general. My Gemini collects dust at this point and is running a rather old Android version. The need of the specialized MediaTek flashing tool is quite a bother as well. Since I've got an Android and Debian dualboot on the thing, I can no longer get OTA updates for Android, and I haven't got the tool set up and working on any computers anymore.
If you don't already have a Gemini, I would suggest instead looking into the PinePhone. They're working on a keyboard addon, and it's already a lot more free than the Gemini. I run postmarketOS on a PinePhone and it's most of what I wanted out of the Gemini already, despite the rough edges.
If you do have a Gemini already, I think our best bet is someone very dedicated choosing to reverse-engineer the thing. Considering the hardware issues with the keyboard, it would take a lot to make this thing usable. If someone were willing to put in the work to make a replacement keyboard, they'd probably be better off hacking on a different device altogether. The Gemini is just e-waste at this point.
If you were interested in trying to get mainline support for it and such, it may be worth working with some of the postmarketOS guys. There's a page for the Gemini on their wiki, but support so far isn't great. Only one person is marked as owning it / working on it, and there haven't been any updates in a while. It also is replying on libhybris, which would ideally be avoided in favor of getting proper support working.