Develop Bugs

Game over, Microsoft said HD2 is not upgradeable to WP7S

http://apcmag.com/microsoft-no-windows-phone-7-upgrade-for-windows-mobile-6x-devices.htm
Owners of HTC’s highly-praised HD2 touchscreen smartphone will be unable to upgrade the device to Microsoft’s new Windows Phone 7 software when the OS is released towards the end of the year.
Despite the HD2 meeting many of the criteria laid down in Microsoft’s ‘Chassis 1’ spec – including a 1GHz Qualcomm processor, high-res capacitive touch display, 5 megapixel camera and 3.5mm headphone jack – the phone will be ruled out for the simple reason that it has five buttons instead of the three mandated for all Windows Phone 7 devices.
That’s the official line from Microsoft, at any rate. Natasha Kwan, General Manager for Microsoft’s Mobile Communications Business in the Asia-Pacific region, told APC that the HD2 “doesn’t qualify because it doesn’t have the three buttons”.
At least officially, but un-officially I would bet that some gurus from XDA-dev will make it happen ... when the WP7S is available end of this year. They should be able to get the ROM and port it to HD2. That's my feeling.
And there is still hope this will be negated on the next MIX10 .... Microsoft will say "That's not true, HD2 is upgradeable to WP7S and here is the beta ROM you can put and test"

This .. its just... don't have words 4 this..
Now its all up to the devs..

That well and truly Sux ....
But i have very little to worry about
We're at XDA's !!!!!!!!

gogol said:
At least officially, but un-officially I would bet that some gurus from XDA-dev will make it happen ... when the WP7S is available end of this year. They should be able to get the ROM and port it to HD2. That's my feeling.
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Click to collapse
Well, as has been pointed out in many other threads, producing a cooked ROM based on a new CE kernel is a completely different proposition from porting between different versions of WM5 and 6. Whether we see a cooked HD2 ROM based on WP7 is pretty much entirely dependent on three things:
1) There needs to be a beta WP7 ROM for the HD2 produced by Microsoft and/or HTC. (Evidence that this exists is strong, but not absolutely conclusive).
2) The beta version has to be recent enough that there is no change to the driver architecture between it and the released version.
3) The beta has to be leaked.
IMO, the last of those is not by any means guaranteed this time round.

I hardly think that because the HD2 has 2 extra buttons this would prevent WP7S from running on it! Seriously, who are they trying to kid?

Hmm, there's some more stuff in the linked article that the original poster doesn't quote:
There could be more to this than just the sin of having two buttons too many, however: Tony Wilkinson, Business Operations Director for Microsoft Australia, told APC that “there are some hardware components that the HD doesn’t have”.
We’re not sure what those are because Microsoft has not revealed its complete recipe for Windows Phone 7 devices – that’s due to take place at this month’s MIX developer conference in Las Vegas – but we’ve heard that a pixel-pushing graphics chip might be on the checklist.
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Click to collapse
Assuming that it's not just a matter of buttons, I'd say that makes even an unofficial HD2 port a bit less likely, but we'll see.

Completely understood.
We could wait that ROM anyway, whether leaked or come from official WP7S phone later this year or God knows where.
There are many amazing things which were unthinkable done by XDA devs here. They just too many to mention here ... HTC Kaiser missing drivers, WM6.5 on <insert HTC devices>, Android on WM, etc.
Even if it could not be done, but having HOPE is not a bad thing ...
However, certainly, this could potentially put a halt on HD2 sales.
Shasarak said:
Well, as has been pointed out in many other threads, producing a cooked ROM based on a new CE kernel is a completely different proposition from porting between different versions of WM5 and 6. Whether we see a cooked HD2 ROM based on WP7 is pretty much entirely dependent on three things:
1) There needs to be a beta WP7 ROM for the HD2 produced by Microsoft and/or HTC. (Evidence that this exists is strong, but not absolutely conclusive).
2) The beta version has to be recent enough that there is no change to the driver architecture between it and the released version.
3) The beta has to be leaked.
IMO, the last of those is not by any means guaranteed this time round.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Ruudfood said:
I hardly think that because the HD2 has 2 extra buttons this would prevent WP7S from running on it! Seriously, who are they trying to kid?
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Click to collapse
It could certainly be enough to prevent an official WP7 upgrade for the HD2, and we now have word from an actual Microsoft representative which suggeststhat this is indeed the case.
That reminds me, where's Freyberry? He owes a number of people a grovelling apology for insulting them when they suggested that the buttons on the HD2 might have an impact on WP7 availability....
gogol said:
Even if it could not be done, but having HOPE is not a bad thing ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having hope is a bad thing if anyone buys an HD2 because of that hope, only to have it proven unrealistic.
gogol said:
We could wait that ROM anyway, whether leaked or come from official WP7S phone later this year or God knows where.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A ROM from an official WP7S phone almost certainly wouldn't be adequate. Unless every single hardware component in it is identical to the HD2, you would still have no way of getting hold of the necessary drivers. So if, say, the camera in this phone wasn't the same as the one in the HD2, then it would be impossible to make a cooked WP7 HD2 ROM from it in which the camera works. The only way you could do it is if there is a group of official WP7S phones which between them contain every single component in the HD2 - not just the chipset but the camera, proximity sensor, touchscreen, everything.

I bet the "5 buttons" reason is a bad excuse to not having to reveal more info prior to MIX.
My guess that this reason is BS because of the announcement of LG's first WP7 phone, this is taken from the article about it on neowin:
The device sports a QWERTY slide-out keyboard as well as a touch screen and the three standard Windows Phone 7 prescribed buttons: back, home and search. Other buttons include power, camera and volume controls.
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source:
http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-reveals-first-windows-phone-7-series-handset-from-lg
Obviously this phone has more buttons than the HD2 and will be running WP7.

Shasarak said:
It could certainly be enough to prevent an official WP7 upgrade for the HD2, and we now have word from an actual Microsoft representative which suggeststhat this is indeed the case.
That reminds me, where's Freyberry? He owes a number of people a grovelling apology for insulting them when they suggested that the buttons on the HD2 might have an impact on WP7 availability....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No comment on this he he he
Shasarak said:
Having hope is a bad thing if anyone buys an HD2 because of that hope, only to have it proven unrealistic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct, but I also said:
However, certainly, this could potentially put a halt on HD2 sales.
What I mean with hope is for "current owner" of HD2
Shasarak said:
A ROM from an official WP7S phone almost certainly wouldn't be adequate. Unless every single hardware component in it is identical to the HD2, you would still have no way of getting hold of the necessary drivers. So if, say, the camera in this phone wasn't the same as the one in the HD2, then it would be impossible to make a cooked WP7 HD2 ROM from it in which the camera works. The only way you could do it is if there is a group of official WP7S phones which between them contain every single component in the HD2 - not just the chipset but the camera, proximity sensor, touchscreen, everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fully understand. But do you think all the hardware components would be exactly different?
Learning from past experience, most if not all past devices still have the same hardware components. That's why XDA can still port WM6.5 to some of old devices.
Why would suddenly the hardware is now totally differents?
Even if it is new hardware component, I would think it will be backward compatible with the old hardware.
Well, it could be that the new OS requires to use "new drivers format" for that "old hardware" (HD2) ...
That is quite obvious.
So, either the new WP7S devices are still using most the same hardware components, which means the WP7S drivers will be somehow backward compatible with old hardware.
Or, some super clever XDA dev will create new drivers for HD2 using new device driver format of WP7S. This sounds impossible, but .... who knows?

I won't believe any article until MIX. Especially an article which doesn't mention the HD2 in the quote
I see the words "current phones" and "HD", but no HD2 in there. But hey, I'm clutching at straws now really!
gogol said:
Or, some super clever XDA dev will create new drivers for HD2 using new device driver format of WP7S. This sounds impossible, but .... who knows?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
New kernel, relatively new architecture will mean that it will be effectively like porting HD2 to Android...only with zero documentation.

reverse-engineering drivers? just look at the problems present in android-development... ^^ the problem is you need exact (!) specifications of the hardware to start with - and that's closed-source. even after that it's not easy.
but even IF some magician would pull this off, i have learned one thing with the x1: not having an official firmware adapted to the OS you want to use deprives you of a stable base, it will always be patchwork at best. (and i'm talking 6.1 -> 6.5 here, where the difference isn't that big)

I was going to buy a touch hd2 for 425 off craigslist with the complete idea that this phone would be wp7s. Seeing that it won't has left me stay with my reliable tp2...
its a shame actually I wanted the hd2 to be wp7s for obvious reasons

If this is true I will sell my hd2 soon!
I mean the buttons... its nothing but a lie, its not the true reason!
They could have told more early that the HD2 wont get an upgrade they just didnt because they want to sell it!
Then the "russian twitter" thing was only marketing to sell a phone with dead OS..
But I still don't realy believe this.. windows [email protected] told that "there 'may' be information next month".. well it is " next month" but the hd2 wasnt mentioned directly as far as I can see..
Cheers

If the buttons are the culprit, I bet the problem isn't the extra buttons, but lack of the Search button. Sure the Home one could be remapped, but what about consistency, ease of use for consumers etc.?

Blade0rz said:
I won't believe any article until MIX. Especially an article which doesn't mention the HD2 in the quote
I see the words "current phones" and "HD", but no HD2 in there. But hey, I'm clutching at straws now really!
New kernel, relatively new architecture will mean that it will be effectively like porting HD2 to Android...only with zero documentation.
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Agreed, it looks like nothing is set in stone yet:
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010...-because-of-hardware-buttons-dont-be-so-sure/

chris5932 said:
I mean the buttons... its nothing but a lie, its not the true reason!
They could have told more early that the HD2 wont get an upgrade they just didnt because they want to sell it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be a good reason for HTC not to offer the upgrade, but I don't see how Microsoft sells more WP7 licences by not allowing the HD2 to be upgraded. From Microsoft's perspective what matters is getting an absolutely consistent look-and-feel across all WP7 phones. So I find it plausible that Microsoft might refuse to sell HTC any licences to install WP7 on HD2's, given the lack of a search button.

I'm not giving up hope yet though. They've already announced the button requirement. If the HD2 was going to be disqualified for this reason why not say so? I don't think this is over. She's all the way on the other side of the planet from Redmond and most likely less 'in the know' just for this reason. Just this Saturday a much more knowledgeable MS rep said 'Wait for MIX' in regards to the HD2 getting an upgrade.
The statement leads me to believe that the MS rep in a far flung region is just interpreting the 3 button requirement to automatically mean that MS won't allow any current devices to get the upgrade and not them having actual info that the HD2 will specifically not get the upgrade. That and MS will need to get some sort of hardware in devs hands before official availability. An emulator is nice and all but real hardware is key. The HD2 is supposedly launching here in the States right after MIX. Coincidence? Maybe I'm just grasping at straws but fingers crossed nonetheless.
Shasarak said:
Well, as has been pointed out in many other threads, producing a cooked ROM based on a new CE kernel is a completely different proposition from porting between different versions of WM5 and 6. Whether we see a cooked HD2 ROM based on WP7 is pretty much entirely dependent on three things:
1) There needs to be a beta WP7 ROM for the HD2 produced by Microsoft and/or HTC. (Evidence that this exists is strong, but not absolutely conclusive).
2) The beta version has to be recent enough that there is no change to the driver architecture between it and the released version.
3) The beta has to be leaked.
IMO, the last of those is not by any means guaranteed this time round.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're making some assumptions that aren't fair to make at this point in time. If the hardware is nearly identical to the HD2 (which it will be) why would it need an entirely new bootloader as compared to other WP7 devices? #2 (and therefore 3 as well) doesn't even make sense as they're developing this on CE. It's not like they're going to change CE versions mid-dev. The driver architecture won't change. MS has stated that they're doing all the driver dev, not the OEMs. As long as the HD2 matches the chassis specs, there's no reason it will need different drivers. The only thing that concerns me is the bootloader as it's my understanding that it's unique per device and likely a WM6 bootloader won't be able to boot WP7.

Shasarak said:
That would be a good reason for HTC not to offer the upgrade, but I don't see how Microsoft sells more WP7 licences by not allowing the HD2 to be upgraded. From Microsoft's perspective what matters is getting an absolutely consistent look-and-feel across all WP7 phones. So I find it plausible that Microsoft might refuse to sell HTC any licences to install WP7 on HD2's, given the lack of a search button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I agree with most ppl here.. lets just wait til MIX..
There are severall things said that fight each other!
MS:"info for hd2 may next month","no upgrade for WinM 6.X phones"
HTC:"HD2 is able to run WP7's",
HTC twitter:"HD2 will get an upgrade" ..
I think the chances are still as before the article but make ur own guess.
Cheers

I wonder if microsoft is using some sort of qualcomm system on chip like there new MSM7x30 soc. As microsoft is only letting snapdragon devices, im sure they have a certain gpu that they have to use so the performance is the same on all handsets. so a SOC would make sense and that might be why the hd2 does not meet the specs.
Also i dont think the hd2 has 4 point multi touch.
Also i think microsoft wont let them upgrade as they wont 3 buttons only on the front so to let the hd2 have a upgrade on to wm7 makes a mockery of wm7 requirements.

Windows Phone 7 WILL NOT be supported on ANY current WinMo Phones

Yes, that's correct. Windows Phone 7 will NOT be officially supported on anything that is currently on the market. Microsoft has repeatedly stated this. It has rather high end specs that very few phones on the market can even support. In addition, Microsoft has a very firm mandate on things such as having the 3, and only 3, buttons on the front of the device.
So will someone here be able to port WP7 to a current device, unofficially? It depends on which device. Does your phone have a Snapdragon CPU? If the answer is no then there is very, and I mean very, little chance of your phone ever seeing WP7. There's a few reasons but the first and foremost being that all of the binaries are compiled with the ARMv7 instruction set. So basically the only phones (that I know of) are the HTC HD2, Acer neotouch, and Toshiba TG01. The most likely is the HD2 which is actively being worked on by Da_G and probably some other people. Several Android phones also sport the snapdragon but we've yet to see an android phone with WM6 running on it so I doubt we'll see WP7 on one either. So I won't straight up rule out other phones from getting some sort of WP7 hack but it's extremely unlikely. If it somehow does, expect the performance to be extremely crappy. There's a reason MS set the requirements to what they did.
Mods: please sticky.

Stickied. WP7/CE6/(future CE7) is quite the different ball game from WM2003/WM5/WM6/WM6.5/CE5/CE5.x...
There's also the LG Expo which runs QSD/ARMv7, so is a possible target.
The major hurdle with porting is that our current devices contain Radio ROMs, Drivers, and Bootloaders which all target the CE5.x platform. CE6+ is a different beast on a low level (in a good way, there are major improvements across the board which required breaking API compatibility - these improvements have been long overdue)
With access to whitepapers documenting the hardware's interface(s) and initialization routines, Platform Builder for WP7, and a good bit of time it's certainly possible to bring any platform supporting ARMv7 up to WP7. However such information/software is not public, so it's up to the OEM to either develop this (not at all likely) or release the requisite platform BSP (also not at all likely) to enable anyone to port their devices to WP7.
There are other possible methods such as emulation, but the amount of work involved would outweigh the end result by a good margin. The OEMs major concerns with porting ROMs is the sharing of 3rd party software to which they are not authorized to license distribution (for example, HTC licenses WM from MSFT, and also licenses a number of other technologies such as swype)
One possible solution for this in an ideal world is for Qualcomm to license HTC to distribute a binary-only driver solution, similar to Nvidias driver license on *nix. Combining that with HTC's own OEM specific binary-only libraries, would give us a bare-bones Platform BSP. This would contain only technologies owned by Qualcomm and HTC. They could then release this bare bones, binary-only, pre-linking BSP, and we could, on our end, combine it with the WP7 Platform Builder, and come out with a completely stock WP7 ROM.
This would allow us to constantly update the OS version, add our own 3rd party software as needed, and eliminate the need to use "cooking" tools to build a ROM (instead we could use MSFT's own PB or a derivative of such)
In this situation there wouldn't be any licensing issues outside of Qualcomm and HTC's own IP. Will they ever do this? I doubt it. But it would be very, very nice! It would satisfy the OEM's requirement that we don't redistribute 3rd party software, and satisfy our own needs to tweak our phones to perfection. Note that Qualcomm/HTC is interchangable with any SoC developer and any OEM. Rather than Qualcomm/HTC it could be Texas Instruments/Samsung, or xxxx/yyyy
Of course there are some other snags with this (WP7 Platform Builder is not publicly available), but one can dream right?
Side note, for more info on what a BSP is from the horses mouth, look here.

Da_G, respecting all the tries that have been made till now, if ever Windows Phone 7 would be ported it would be on very certain device - like lg expo or hd2, as per the hardware requirements. it would be better to buy a windows phone 7 device than buying and porting wp7 on the above devices.
microsoft is trying to create a hype for windows phone 7, and is in the news though not much. almost all windows mobile OEMs are making wp7 devices. if an OEM is making a device with high end specs, it won't port its own software(ui) on the buggy windows mobile, but will buy license for let's say android or why not wp7. we have seen how the OEM tried hard to optimise windows mobile 6.1 and 6.5 on snapdragon. windows mobile still got the future but with limited hardware..

I am one of many owners of an HD2.
Who will lose is the MS.
Will lose many WM7 ambassadors..... will a HD2 owner, buy a new WM7 device ?.......no!.......we will port the HD2 to Android, and become one more Droid embassador.
This is the business of MS in the world of smartphones.....a no upgrade SO\Device seller.

Why would you swap to Android? When you need a new phone, a WP7 would make a good replacement for any Windows Mobile device.

Windcape said:
Why would you swap to Android? When you need a new phone, a WP7 would make a good replacement for any Windows Mobile device.
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Click to collapse
Because its Android....its open source, its just better ok, dont question!
i think the issue is that the HD2 is more than capable of doing a lot more than it currently does and i for one have an issue with upgrading phones because of software, if i want an upgrade its for hardware reasons so naturally if other OS's can be ported to the HD2 then it will sustain my device a bit longer. until its no longer able to run what i want it to run.

Android phones are as open source as iPhones are (Android OS, and Darwin OS is open source, most of the rest is closed-source modifications).
Anyway, I don't think it's Microsoft's choice if HD2 get WP7 or not, but HTCs. And HTC look forward to a large profit margin by selling extra much hardware this year, so obviously they wouldn't want to upgrade HD2 -- at least not the first six months.

Windcape said:
Why would you swap to Android? When you need a new phone, a WP7 would make a good replacement for any Windows Mobile device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because I paid well for it,a shortly time, and i dont want to spend more money, to bought a new Device, always MS upgrade the OS....opposite of the top devices with Android or iphone.
was my mistake, I can not blame anyone else, I was naive in thinking that it would take a WM7 upgrade due to good specs of HD2.
my mistake.
But I will not throw out my HD2

For the iPhone you get a upgrade for a small price, for Android you're completely relying on the mercy of your manufacturer. And the less you pay, the less chance in hell there is you get a update, special for Android phones.
You're being naive if you think Android is any different here.

3 buttons is a must? Nog sure if that could be true... some manufacturers would be left out/give up themselves because of this constraint.
7 for phones... MSFT is losing smartphones market share. Trust me... they will make it available for the... gen pop

Is this suppose to be news? I though everyone knew by now that WM7 will not be supporting current Winmo phones....

It's not meant to be news, it's meant to stop people asking will WP7 be ported to my TP2/Diamond2/(insert current wm phone name here) question

Does this mean WP7 can only be for snapdragon and not OMAP, hummingbird, tegra 2 and all the other arm cpu's out there?

ari-free said:
Does this mean WP7 can only be for snapdragon and not OMAP, hummingbird, tegra 2 and all the other arm cpu's out there?
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Click to collapse
Little is officially known about this however it's believed that at first only Snapdragon will be supported. But with Samsung being a partner and other companies certainly wanting choice, it won't last forever. Samsung devices very well may have a Hummingbird but Samsung would just have to develop more of the drivers whereas MSFT is developing everything for Snapdragon.

I just assumed older arm cpu's wouldn't be supported. But only snapdragon? ugh...
I'm not a big fan of HTC because they insist on using snapdragons in their supposedly high end phones.
btw Samsung will probably not use hummingbird in future phones because Apple bought out intrinsity. But I can't imagine them wanting to use snapdragon...they'd probably want to use the OMAP4 which has the same powerVR GPU, the SGX540. OMAP3's cpu is actually better than hummingbird so I don't think anyone will be crying over the Apple acquisition.

In my opinion, HTC could disable a couple of the buttons on my HD2 if it made it applicable for WP7. Though, on the other hand, I see as much reason to upgrade to WP7 as to go for an iPhone. I'd rather iPuke my iGuts out. WP7 looks iAweful and I think it iSucks pretty bad.
I understand Microsoft's rationale for making the specs as strict as they have, as this is the sole reason iPoo...iPhone is so stable. There's simply no room for flawed drivers, and there's only one "option"

ari-free said:
I just assumed older arm cpu's wouldn't be supported. But only snapdragon? ugh...
I'm not a big fan of HTC because they insist on using snapdragons in their supposedly high end phones.
btw Samsung will probably not use hummingbird in future phones because Apple bought out intrinsity. But I can't imagine them wanting to use snapdragon...they'd probably want to use the OMAP4 which has the same powerVR GPU, the SGX540. OMAP3's cpu is actually better than hummingbird so I don't think anyone will be crying over the Apple acquisition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought Samsung owned/designed Hummingbird?
But at any rate, MSFT will likely open it up later on. They're just keeping it simple for now. Not enough of a difference to start writing/testing drivers for all these different platforms.

tiwas said:
In my opinion, HTC could disable a couple of the buttons on my HD2 if it made it applicable for WP7.
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Click to collapse
Having seen videos on how the camera button works, you can now understand why you cant just bodge WP7 onto a HD2.

DMAND said:
Having seen videos on how the camera button works, you can now understand why you cant just bodge WP7 onto a HD2.
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Their internal test devices didn't have hardware camera buttons.

Yes but all retail ones will, one that require half presses for focusing which none of the hd2 buttons could be forced to do if I'm correct.

WinMo 7 on my EVO?

Before I get boo'd off the stage, just hear me out.
I'm new to the whole cell phone modding scene as the EVO is the first nice phone I've ever had. When I get a new product, I'm the type of person that's going to customize it any way possible, even at the risk of breaking it (gotta love those high risk behaviors).
So my question is, what is the likelihood of seeing an unofficial WinMo7 flash for the EVO? Is this just way beyond the technical capabilities of anyone on the modding scene without access to internal specs? Are there any other phones that this type of thing has been done on to provide a frame of reference?
Don't get me wrong, I love Android and I've been very supportive of the products and developers on the marketplace. I'd just really like the option to flash WinMo7 if I wanted to.
And hey, at least I didn't say iOS4 right?

Considering that WM7 is about 4-6 months out from even being released, it is probably a little silly to be talking about this right now.

Housoft said:
Before I get boo'd off the stage, just hear me out.
I'm new to the whole cell phone modding scene as the EVO is the first nice phone I've ever had. When I get a new product, I'm the type of person that's going to customize it any way possible, even at the risk of breaking it (gotta love those high risk behaviors).
So my question is, what is the likelihood of seeing an unofficial WinMo7 flash for the EVO? Is this just way beyond the technical capabilities of anyone on the modding scene without access to internal specs? Are there any other phones that this type of thing has been done on to provide a frame of reference?
Don't get me wrong, I love Android and I've been very supportive of the products and developers on the marketplace. I'd just really like the option to flash WinMo7 if I wanted to.
And hey, at least I didn't say iOS4 right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
chances are damn near nil. winmo7 is not open source, so there will be no code available to get the kernel up and running. no kernel --> no talky talky between software and hardware.

You have a better chance of being struck by lightening twice in the same spot.

MrDSL said:
You have a better chance of being struck by lightening twice in the same spot.
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Click to collapse
Or seeing WinMo 6.x on the EVO

timothydonohue said:
chances are damn near nil. winmo7 is not open source, so there will be no code available to get the kernel up and running. no kernel --> no talky talky between software and hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This confuses me... windows mobile 6.x isn't open source either, but people found all sorts of ways to mix and match hardware and software installs. Devices that stopped getting updated at WM5 ended up with user based ROMs for 6.0, 6.1 and 6.5 years later.

Thank you for the valid responses I'm just trying to wrap my head around the cell phone scene so the input was much appreciated.
To the others, well, thank you for trolling. Who woulda thought that a legitimate question located in the legitimate forum would be so ridiculously stupid, amirite?

ok i will be the first
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

there is the OS Licensing cost.
as i understand it, Android is free (more free beer than free speech but that's a different thread). Microsoft is not ever free.
hence, if you hack android you're a potential nerd...if you hack windows you're a potential criminal.
kinda the same reason we don't put the apple os on devices...it's closed source.
oh yeah...and then there is the most important question... why would you want to defile your EVO like that?

Junon said:
This confuses me... windows mobile 6.x isn't open source either, but people found all sorts of ways to mix and match hardware and software installs. Devices that stopped getting updated at WM5 ended up with user based ROMs for 6.0, 6.1 and 6.5 years later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interfacing an OS to hardware is all about drivers. On top of that, the software must be compiled with the correct instruction set for the CPU. This is why upgrading to a newer Win Mobile can be possible, but not Android to Win.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

SharkUW said:
Interfacing an OS to hardware is all about drivers. On top of that, the software must be compiled with the correct instruction set for the CPU. This is why upgrading to a newer Win Mobile can be possible, but not Android to Win.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not correct. WinMo7 is using ARM instructions just the same as WinMo6, WinMo5, 2003, Android, and everyone else unless you know something I don't.
Even further WinMo7 will most likely run on Snapdragon chips... so we can pull the necessary drivers from other systems.
The only thing that would be needed is either a haRET style bootloader but for WinMo or a dual bootloader that can load either WinMo7 or Android.

Porting Android to Wave (Replace Bada)

Has anyone tried it yet, what was the outcome?
Is it possible?
Please share your ideas, views and suggestions here.

I think i read somewhere about it, but the project is not continue, unfortunatelly :/
search, maybe you'll find something

Hey Abhishek...
Why do you need to create another thread...??
There are two ongoing threads on the same topic... And if you are interested please head on to those to find out the info about porting android on bada..
Dont create unnecessary threads.... I suggest delete this... or after sometime all we will see in the Bada Section is useless threads....

*facepalm*
Read other topics WWW.ANDROIDPORT.NEt there is the wavedroid project.

Go away and come back when you have some progress for us wavedroid.

Still wondering if wavedroid is a money making exercise or a genuine attempt at getting Android over. The delays don't help the impression this is an exercise being led by folks more eager than actually having the skills to accomplish the task.
I'll be the first to eat my hat if this ever comes to fruition, but I won't be donating anything to something that at this point seems to have only updates on various delays.
Hows this for an interesting post on the JetDroid website...
Not sure why you need the expensive software, it is nice and would help but 95% of the works is already completed for you guys.
To start:
Look for phones with same hardware then use that parts from their android and put the parts into a custom version. You can reuse the /sbin and /system folders from the android sdk virtual machine or if you want better performance use the /sbin and /system of a similar hardware phone android version and just add your init , init.rc , zimage and package this into a rom or dual boot like we do.
CPU:
The wave / Samsung-Intrinsity S5PC110 cpu is much more supported than our s3c6410 and used even by Apple so look at idroid , samsung crespo , HTC 4G android , samsung i9000 for sources for your android files to start from.
Screen:
The screen is possibly the same as S8000 or Spica, wave 3.3" the rest is in other samsung opensource files you just need to mix and match parts.
Obstacles:
The biggest problem might be the cpu and screen + andreno or powervx or Mali display driver but android.so will work until you get to the video driver.
Camera:
Camera is in M910 samsung opensource files / other 5MP camera, there is only a few 5MP camera from that samsung uses so might need to work on the code if you can not find it from a same camera android phone version that is already working.
Now make a good WaveDroid version:
Once you have all this and have it working then you can build a clean custom version of android optmized for your phone. CM for HTC 4G phones might work with almost no or little changes possibly just in the kernel.
The samsung opensource website has the SCH-W850 / SPH-W8500 / SPH-W8550 , this could share some hardware with Samsung Wave as well, similar number codes. Look for a recent code release nov/dec 2010 or later.
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After reading that, I felt I could almost make an android port myself lol. Clearly there are some very knowledgeable and experienced persons out there.
What really bugs me is the Wavedroid folks have been asking for money for months, yet have shown not a shred of proof they have accomplished anything. Secondly, folks have been asking (rightfully so), why you have not implemented a Paypal widget so people can see just how much money you have raised so far. I know you are using illegal software and thus don't want to let everyone into your inner circle to see the progress, but you have shown and proved absolutely nothing. There are more doubts than positive feelings at the moment.

Please don't let this thread grow to one of two-three pages which is worth nothing, there is already another one just for this purpose

Android port is stuck because programmers dont have any programm to edit the bootloader of wave,so they can not do the port...
If anyone knows any free programm to edit ARM 7 files (like IDA 5.7) please give it to them.
But if nobody knows any programm for this case the have to wait until they have enough money form donations to buy the IDA 5.7
(sorry for my english)

This is outrageous, the fact that you need commercial tools to do what your looking to do clearly denotes your level of incompetence. Look at idroid. i didnt see them asking people for money to buy tools?? And i would say that Apple did a much better job locking down the i range then samsung did with the Wave. If you have stumbled at the starting block just forfeit the race.
Prove to us that you know what the f**k your doing and then you can have your donations.
Generally i supported this project, but then you asked for money. Money changes everything.

sabianadmin said:
This is outrageous, the fact that you need commercial tools to do what your looking to do clearly denotes your level of incompetence. Look at idroid. i didnt see them asking people for money to buy tools?? And i would say that Apple did a much better job locking down the i range then samsung did with the Wave. If you have stumbled at the starting block just forfeit the race.
Prove to us that you know what the f**k your doing and then you can have your donations.
Generally i supported this project, but then you asked for money. Money changes everything.
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I agree with U

Asking for money, without providing any scrap of proof that anything is even going on, is what irks people here. Not even a simply paypal donation widget exists so folks can see what the $ count is too.
Too many red flags on this one. I know I'm not the first to ask for proof, or even just something other than "we are working it, it'll be done soooooon, give us all your moneys roflwtflolbbq"
So many other android ports happened without need for this software. And also may I point out what seems total ineptitude on the wavedroid team's part. The Galaxy S contains pretty much the identical hardware as the Wave does. In fact you find me a phone that has identical hardware, one running android, the other something else, and tell me we already have as near an android phone as you're going to get. Compared to other port projects, this should have been done in a weekend to be honest.
wavedroid are bogus, and will accomplish nothing just like all the so called Android to Wave projects and groups previously.

I agree with sabian. I don't know a **** about how difficult or easy is this, but i'm pretty sure that there are good developers around here. Why couldn't you start a new project?

I aggre with you guys,it is very odd that they ask for money without doing anythink...
I just posted that if you know any free software that works with ARM7 files it would be good to inform then...
But they have a very good reason to ask for money because if they can not edit the bootloader they can not load anythink else from bada...if they do that the project it would be almost done because wave and galaxy s have similar hardware so with some fixes to scripts they will have a very good androidport to wave..

Interest in hacking the kin

I think that we really need to build some interest in hacking this kin phone. It appears that there are very few who post but there are a lot more viewing. I decided to create this poll so that maybe we can show it to some skilled mobile hackers letting them know that this phone is not dead and has amazing potential. I encourage everyone who reads this to vote in the poll. without every single person showing interest we may never get anywhere. So don't just read this but sign up and vote. Show your support!!! Lets generate some interest. Vote now and then go spread the word.

I'm interested in seeing the phone get hacked so that all its minor annoyances can be fixed but:
1. do not have the kin twom phone (eyeing to get one)
2. suck at programming
I tend not to post because I am letting the experts (who have the phone and skills to hack the phone) post their progress and such.
I been preying/stalking former Kin phone developers out on LinkedIn as johnkussack suggested but no one has replied back to add me as a contact so that I could send them private msgs asking for their help.

Maybe if we could also start calling Microsoft/Sharp/Verizon. If we have enough interest maybe we could persuade them. Maybe one of us could just get lucky with talking to a "certain" individual who is willing to give some information out. Someone mentioned on another post that Verizon was willing to give out the rom with permission from Sharp. It might also help to remember the person you talk to so that you can call them often and develop somewhat of a "friendship". Any convincing people here?

theres actually some good progress in ideas, but no progress in actually succsesfully hacking it. We just need time.

Modestmuse said:
theres actually some good progress in ideas, but no progress in actually succsesfully hacking it. We just need time.
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Time and Information to be exact.

I would love to see this thing hacked
It has such great hardware for (now a feature phone). 8mp camera, 720p video recording, 600mhz Tegra processor, 256mb of RAM, and 8 gb of storage. Those are low-end (atleast on the processor and ram side of things) smartphone specs. If someone got android or hacked the actual Kin OS, it would be amazing. Honestly, I have to wonder if Microsoft (since they gave up on the phone) would hand over any info on it. I highly doubt it but eh you never know.

10...
I think this is why we dont have any serious phone hackers helping out.

http: // w w w.crunchgear. com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Zune-HD.png
Has anyone tried this?
Hook up your kin and see if it is recognized by windows phone connector?
it can recognize zune HD so why not kin?
and if it doesnt recognize kin we could make a driver...
any thought?

kintwom said:
10...
I think this is why we dont have any serious phone hackers helping out.
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If no one makes if for "fun", no one makes it for recognition, and if no one does for money, you are allowed to begin to suspect what the Kin status is.

Why would you want to hack the Kin2. this guy i work with has one. He absolutly hates it. I would have to agree with him. I tried to use it for a couple mins and gave up.

jwalts27 said:
Why would you want to hack the Kin2. this guy i work with has one. He absolutly hates it. I would have to agree with him. I tried to use it for a couple mins and gave up.
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The reason we want to hack it is because the only that sucks about it is the OS. It has great hardware and could be an excellent feature phone if it were programmed better. Just one thought, look at the how smooth the interface and touch movement is in the zune portion of the phone. It is much smoother than the actual OS. Basically, Microsoft did a poor job with the OS and so the hardware is not being utilized to its full potential. That is why we are trying to optimize it.

mcdietz said:
The reason we want to hack it is because the only that sucks about it is the OS. It has great hardware and could be an excellent feature phone if it were programmed better. Just one thought, look at the how smooth the interface and touch movement is in the zune portion of the phone. It is much smoother than the actual OS. Basically, Microsoft did a poor job with the OS and so the hardware is not being utilized to its full potential. That is why we are trying to optimize it.
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exactly, the poor OS development ended up it not using its full processor potential, its like they had a deadline to make it, and they werent finished....