Develop Bugs

A few questions... (Android! Omnia!)

* Mod EDIT *
Thread closed until moderation team has had an opportunity to properly review as a result of soliciting donations.
Hey everyone,
As you may all know, there’s a fairly large demand to put Android on the Omnia. After researching it myself, I decided since no one else is doing it I’ll take the incentive and give it my best shot. Don’t get too excited, since I may not get very far. But before I begin, there’re three questions I have to ask:
*NOTE: I own a Verizon i910 Omnia*
1. How do I extract the bootloader, kernel, and rom from the device? I’ve tried all sorts of rom kitchens and utilities and the things I get are either useless or work but only with i900 roms I downloaded and therefore not very helpful.
2. I need to disassemble WM’s device drivers (for the screen, touchscreen, buttons to start), and port them to a custom Linux kernel (that’s what Android will be placed on top of). What software do you recommend (for disassembling WM drivers for ARM in PE format)? A day’s worth of google searching turned up little to nothing.
3. This will involve flashing my one and only Omnia with bootloaders, kernels, and roms that, in all likelihood, will brick my device as I test it. I read in certain places something about a “jtag” cable. Can I use this to flash data directly to the chips without any kind of software running on the phone? If so, what kind of information can you provide? I don’t really care about my warranty, considering what I’m going to do to it To rephrase the question, what options (besides returning the phone) do I have to recover it if it gets bricked?
If anyone wants to offer their support I’d really appreciate it. I need people experienced with the inner workings of a WM device and also people experienced in Linux, specifically device drivers.

it would be great if you could install the Android OS. but i think we need to wait for the official drivers for Android, even if they would be released by Samsung. i start thinking it is impossible.

I honestly doubt Samsung will go the extra mile for a single product (even one as awesome as the Omnia) and port an entirely different operating system to just one of their products. This is one we're gonna have to do ourself. It is possible to do, I'm just stuck right now because I don't know how to dump the i910's rom, which contains all the device drivers I need to make a full-featured port of Android possible. This is what I need help with. It's really not that impossible, it just takes a bit of work.
Mods, could you move this thread to "development and hacking"? It would probably be seen by the people I want it to be seen by there. Thanks.

hey..dude.. checkup this from this group of ppl @
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=431329
may be u can join ..

Hey Guys, I've got an Omnia as well and really really want Android on it. Although I am unable to script. I thought of a way to contribute a bit as well. I set up a website to raise money for the first person or organisation that pulls it off to run Android on the Omnia.
Have a look here:
I chipped in a €100 myself as well to make a start. I hope you guys can contribute some money as well so that it motivates the developers even more.
For the developers out there: "We know you can do it!"
* Mod EDIT *
Link Removed

How can an project be real. If Basics are unknown?
Qualcomm, QCT Tools, Firmware structure etc...
For study:
http://www.4shared.com/file/108584795/bb49ee52/I900_090226.html
Big thanx to barisyalcin.
For Android on Omnia. Good Luck.
The way is the Destination.
Best Regards

Why even bother installing a shell?
the android on the omnia only installs a shell compound, it does not actually convert the omnia into a full fledged Android phone.
I would just scrap it and pick up an actual android phone.

Interest in hacking the kin

I think that we really need to build some interest in hacking this kin phone. It appears that there are very few who post but there are a lot more viewing. I decided to create this poll so that maybe we can show it to some skilled mobile hackers letting them know that this phone is not dead and has amazing potential. I encourage everyone who reads this to vote in the poll. without every single person showing interest we may never get anywhere. So don't just read this but sign up and vote. Show your support!!! Lets generate some interest. Vote now and then go spread the word.

I'm interested in seeing the phone get hacked so that all its minor annoyances can be fixed but:
1. do not have the kin twom phone (eyeing to get one)
2. suck at programming
I tend not to post because I am letting the experts (who have the phone and skills to hack the phone) post their progress and such.
I been preying/stalking former Kin phone developers out on LinkedIn as johnkussack suggested but no one has replied back to add me as a contact so that I could send them private msgs asking for their help.

Maybe if we could also start calling Microsoft/Sharp/Verizon. If we have enough interest maybe we could persuade them. Maybe one of us could just get lucky with talking to a "certain" individual who is willing to give some information out. Someone mentioned on another post that Verizon was willing to give out the rom with permission from Sharp. It might also help to remember the person you talk to so that you can call them often and develop somewhat of a "friendship". Any convincing people here?

theres actually some good progress in ideas, but no progress in actually succsesfully hacking it. We just need time.

Modestmuse said:
theres actually some good progress in ideas, but no progress in actually succsesfully hacking it. We just need time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Time and Information to be exact.

I would love to see this thing hacked
It has such great hardware for (now a feature phone). 8mp camera, 720p video recording, 600mhz Tegra processor, 256mb of RAM, and 8 gb of storage. Those are low-end (atleast on the processor and ram side of things) smartphone specs. If someone got android or hacked the actual Kin OS, it would be amazing. Honestly, I have to wonder if Microsoft (since they gave up on the phone) would hand over any info on it. I highly doubt it but eh you never know.

10...
I think this is why we dont have any serious phone hackers helping out.

http: // w w w.crunchgear. com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Zune-HD.png
Has anyone tried this?
Hook up your kin and see if it is recognized by windows phone connector?
it can recognize zune HD so why not kin?
and if it doesnt recognize kin we could make a driver...
any thought?

kintwom said:
10...
I think this is why we dont have any serious phone hackers helping out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If no one makes if for "fun", no one makes it for recognition, and if no one does for money, you are allowed to begin to suspect what the Kin status is.

Why would you want to hack the Kin2. this guy i work with has one. He absolutly hates it. I would have to agree with him. I tried to use it for a couple mins and gave up.

jwalts27 said:
Why would you want to hack the Kin2. this guy i work with has one. He absolutly hates it. I would have to agree with him. I tried to use it for a couple mins and gave up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason we want to hack it is because the only that sucks about it is the OS. It has great hardware and could be an excellent feature phone if it were programmed better. Just one thought, look at the how smooth the interface and touch movement is in the zune portion of the phone. It is much smoother than the actual OS. Basically, Microsoft did a poor job with the OS and so the hardware is not being utilized to its full potential. That is why we are trying to optimize it.

mcdietz said:
The reason we want to hack it is because the only that sucks about it is the OS. It has great hardware and could be an excellent feature phone if it were programmed better. Just one thought, look at the how smooth the interface and touch movement is in the zune portion of the phone. It is much smoother than the actual OS. Basically, Microsoft did a poor job with the OS and so the hardware is not being utilized to its full potential. That is why we are trying to optimize it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly, the poor OS development ended up it not using its full processor potential, its like they had a deadline to make it, and they werent finished....

Petition to make Wave 1/2/3 source code open source - collecting ideas

Hi everyone,
I started this on Sammobile yesterday (where it is already a sticky). Also, german site Badania has wrote about it now, too. The petition is not started yet, this is only for collecting ideas and knowing about your opinions. Recently there was some 'news' saying that the Wave 3 source code was made open source, which turned out to be untrue (the file released by Samsung was only 130kB big). Big letdown for many of us, and Wave 1/2 source codes were not even mentioned.
The current situation
The thing is, at least the Wave 1/2 users desperately need an open source release to continue enjoying their devices. Both devices are great hardware, they have a big community and developers willing to put in some ellbow grease, but, we don't have the means to fix certain stuff, only Samsung has. You might think about the trouble upgrading Samsung Apps and the trouble with push and SHP in general that many Wave users have experienced in the last few weeks and months. You might think about all the small annoyances that you users ask us CFW developers to fix everyday (but we can't). You may also think of the BadaDroid project, and the tons of work put into developing a working modem driver, still with nothing to show to the public until now.
The last official Wave 1 FW is from July (with little to none improvements over the January XXLA1 release), the last official Wave 2 FW is even older. Some of you think (and with a reason) that Samsung themselves are not willing to do any more updates or fixes for these two devices. They have, more or less officialy, abandoned these devices and are not willing to put in any more work. We, as a community, on the other hand are willing to work on these - without pay even -, but our hands and feet are bound behind our backs due to the Wave 1/2 being closed source. Don't be fooled by our recent successes (design changes, ported chinese keyboard and quickpanel) - reverse engineering is like stumbling through the dark in an unknown environment, and eventually we will come to a standstill. With Bada being closed source, we will always lag behind the likes of Android.
Samsung themselves are no strangers to the idea of openness. They plan to make Tizen an open source project, they also develop highly succesfull Android devices and they also did at least say that they are interested in releasing the Wave 3 source code. Also, they are just now planning a big company image overhaul, with a new logo and a new policy of more openness. But, if nothing is done, they will just forget about the 'old' Wave 1/2 devices - guaranteed.
So, what now?
This is where you, the users, the developers, the mods, the bloggers, everyone in the Bada community come in. I've been playing around for a while with the idea of starting a petition for exactly this: To ask Samsung to release in full the Wave 1/2/3 (or for even more Wave devices) source codes. But wait, don't rush things now!
We need a big, coordinated effort, spanning all the Bada sites around the globe.
We need the petition to operate from a site that's easy to use for everyone (that means no complicated signup and no shady stuff), and we need the petition's text to be multi-lingual, translated in all the languages of all Bada countries: german, turkish, azerbaijani, arabic, polish, czech, french, italian, spanish, and a lot that I have forgotten about. We need a great, short text (not as long as this one) for the petition, so that everyone knows even from a quick glance the why's and the uses of such a petition.
We also need supporters, people willinng to spread the word on other sites, especially the big ones such as XDA or Bada-Turkiye, but also the smaller ones. We need every voice, and we need as many people in this as possible.
We need to give Samsung the choice to either publicly let down thousands of customers, or just, finally, give us the source code that we have been waiting for for so long.
Further proceeding - my suggestion
Now, this is what I suggest now:
Don't rush things - we should be collecting ideas for at least a week until we even think about actually starting a petition.
If you're willing to support this case, spread the word or even find more supporters, let us know here.
Double points if you're also a member of some non-english-speaking Bada community .
If you have any additional ideas or concerns, also let us know - this is what this thread is for, to collect ideas and coordinate this.
We need a good short english text for the petition itself (I may come up with something later myself).
We need translations for this text in as many languages as possible. And, no, I'm not thinking about Google translations, but about the good old manual ones.
Looking forward to your opinions!

Big sorry.
But this petition can only Santa Claus make true...
1.
Samsung is not alone patent holder...
Wave 1-3 use Qualcomm Hardware AND Software...
So Qualcomm patents affected...
Nearly same stuff is in hundrets of devices from other manufacturer too, because also Qualcomm...
Not only Qualcomm... think about Quram...
Security and Compression Algos...
2.
Place holder...
Best Regards

i agree this Samsung release the source code wave 1 2 3

Maybe we should think about making the petition not only about Samsung, but also about Qualcomm and Quram. Hopes for Modem drivers and the like might be slim, but chances are we'll get a step forward, at least being able to do something more. I think Bada libraries source codes are well within the realm of possibility, and we could already do a lot with them.
Also... what else could we do now, hoping to keep the Wave 1/2 development alive?
BTW: Christmas might also be a good time to make our wishes come true .

http://www.change.org/petitions/samsung-we-want-a-good-working-bada-for-all-devices#
Why not continue this petition...
with 1,435 supporters
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best Regards

adfree said:
http://www.change.org/petitions/samsung-we-want-a-good-working-bada-for-all-devices#
Why not continue this petition...
Best Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be a good thing, but - I don't think that we will get Samsung to fix it themselves, and the petitions text is not clear about alternatives such as open sourcing. I think it's a different thing.

Hi Guys...
I am a writer from Badaforums.net.
1 month back,we planed to file petition for open source bada and we got good response.
but,after sometime we dropped the plan as we needed some reliable(and known) person to file the petition.
we have a draft ready for the petition...if u want,u all can have a look at this...
we can use this to file petition if u want...I can give the text file(only to reliable person)...
link is as below :
http ://www.badaforums.net/forums/announces/petition-request-samsung-support-bada-update-t7183.html (Refer Image)
Regards,
WaveGuru

Nice...
You mean the attached one?
I hope, it is okay, that I added your portal as Supprter at our article as official supporter...

Taxidriver05 said:
Nice...
You mean the attached one?
I hope, it is okay, that I added your portal as Supprter at our article as official supporter...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes,its OK.
I don't remember whether this is the final draft or not(have to search my machine ) ,but we can use the final one.
but,before that we need to gather support from all sites.
and BTW,Badaforums is not my portal...i am just writer of that forum
Regards,
WaveGuru

waveguru said:
Hi Guys...
I am a writer from Badaforums.net.
1 month back,we planed to file petition for open source bada and we got good response.
but,after sometime we dropped the plan as we needed some reliable(and known) person to file the petition.
we have a draft ready for the petition...if u want,u all can have a look at this...
we can use this to file petition if u want...I can give the text file(only to reliable person)...
link is as below :
http ://www.badaforums.net/forums/announces/petition-request-samsung-support-bada-update-t7183.html (Refer Image)
Regards,
WaveGuru
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice! I would, however, suggest to make this a bit shorter. People seem to be too lazy to read these times . Also, set the accent on the Open Source release and include Qualcomm in the petitions recipients list. Although this may sound pessimistic, I'm amost sure that Samsung themselves won't do any development or OS updates for the Wave 1/2 (and smaller Waves) themselves.

I guess I should give some more details. Also, for those too lazy too read the whole text: Just jump to the paragraph that answers your question.
What is this about?
We want to ask Samsung to release the source codes for the Wave 1/2/3 firmwares and Qualcomm to release the accompanying hardware drivers (the Qualcomm part is an additional proposal by me).
Why is this important? / Why should I promote this or participate?
For me personally, this is something of a last hope, especially for the Wave 1/2 devices. I should know being a CFW developer myself: With what we got now, we just don't get far, and there's tons of stuff that we just can't fix (because we don't know how it works, because we can't do any changes... etc). Also, think about the BadaDroid project, which will likely get a big boost from a source code release (modem driver, anyone?). Without the open sourcing we will eventually come to standstill, and that point is not too far in the future.
Why now? / How is this different from earlier petitions?
First of all: This is the first petition specifically made to ask Samsung to release the source code. Now is a good time for this, because Samsung is planning a complete brand makeover over thenext few weeks and months. With this brand makeover comes a new policy of openness, which can only be good for this petition to reach its goal.
"The Wave 3 Bada OS is already open source." / "They'll release anyways because of Open Source Tizen."
I can assure you, it is not. Although this news was on several big Bada news site during the last two weeks, the news turned out to be untrue. The file provided by Samsung is only 130kB big and contains something, but not the Wave 3 source code. It is worse for the Wave 1 and Wave 2 devices, cause these two will be just forgotten about if we don't act. Remember, Tizen is only planned for the Wave 3, and I'm not even sure if that is official.
"This won't work."
Of course, you won't have any guarantees this will work, even if you participate or promote this. The alternative - doing nothing of the like and just hoping for the best - won't most likely do you any good either (read the second paragraph for my personal opinion). Also, we're open to suggestions on how to do this the best way. We want the whole Bada community in this, and we want to listen to your opinions and proposals.
We already have supporters such as german site Badania.de, czech site mojebada.cz, US based site badaforums.net and we're in good hopes of getting even more of the big and smaller ones to support us. This is planned to be a big global effort.
"The modem driver is owned by Qualcomm, not Samsung."
So, you're interested in BadaDroid development specifically? That's right, and that's also the reason why I'm suggesting to add Qualcomm to the petitions recipient list.

Quram algorithms sourcecode is what they sell, so they won't publish it.
Qualcomm AMSS sourcecode - forget it.
Parts of Samsung SHP source - maybe, but from my experience with Samsung HQ I wouldn't count on much. ;P

If we all want to start with this petition,we have to start early and with full proof plan.
but,we will need support from whole bada community and many sites.
I am ready to help...with my blogging and ideas...
Regards,
WaveGuru

We of badaos.net (Iranian Bada forum) are ready to sign the petition. Our forum has 20,000 users (about 3000 active)

Thanks everyone for their support!
Waveguru and nip_miniw, can we add you to the list of official supporters? Maybe also your sites (badaforums.net and badaos.net)? And, don't think wrong if it has gotten a little bit silent here, we're still working on this! But, we also still need more supporters.
If you're willing to help, post here, please.

Rebellos said:
Quram algorithms sourcecode is what they sell, so they won't publish it.
Qualcomm AMSS sourcecode - forget it.
Parts of Samsung SHP source - maybe, but from my experience with Samsung HQ I wouldn't count on much. ;P
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're 100% right about the Quram (QMG images, anyone?) source codes, and probably about the Qualcomm AMSS source code, too. But, with your new low level BadaDroid modem driver - would we even need the Qualcomm source anymore? Also, for the rest, I think anything will help, right?

k8500 said:
Thanks everyone for their support!
Waveguru and nip_miniw, can we add you to the list of official supporters? Maybe also your sites (badaforums.net and badaos.net)? And, don't think wrong if it has gotten a little bit silent here, we're still working on this! But, we also still need more supporters.
If you're willing to help, post here, please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I can help too,,
I have a little group named BadaIL, we rleased 5 roms until today..
what can I do?

k8500 said:
Thanks everyone for their support!
Waveguru and nip_miniw, can we add you to the list of official supporters? Maybe also your sites (badaforums.net and badaos.net)? And, don't think wrong if it has gotten a little bit silent here, we're still working on this! But, we also still need more supporters.
If you're willing to help, post here, please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What should we do as an official supporter?

k8500 said:
Thanks everyone for their support!
Waveguru and nip_miniw, can we add you to the list of official supporters? Maybe also your sites (badaforums.net and badaos.net)? And, don't think wrong if it has gotten a little bit silent here, we're still working on this! But, we also still need more supporters.
If you're willing to help, post here, please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi k8500,
I am ready to help u all.I also have a plan in place.if you want,we can discuss this over PM.
but,I believe that making Bada as an open source should be one of the thing in petition.
we should also need to ask Samsung to provide us bugfree bada...as current bada firmware is not bugfree.
if we can't play HD games with current firmware...if we need to switch off our wave every time to clear ram...then its Samsung DUTY to provide us bugfree OS which they promised.
As many said that this will not change anything... Samsung will not do this...
It will be Samsung's decision whether they want to provide their customer bug free product or not ...but as a customer...as a money payer...I want to try to make Samsung realize that what they are doing is not RIGHT.
Thanks and Regards,
WaveGuru

I think...
At first we need an overview, who will officially support this petition...
We (badaNIA) will definitely do so...
Need name of plattform and contact infos...

Anyone tried j2objc yet?

Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.

lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?

lapucele said:
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James

Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.

lapucele said:
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just thought I'd mention as I only heard yesterday, but the newest edition of the app store for Apple is called AppCake for Apple. Apparently Apple is now going about systematically shutting down every 3rd party non-apple owned store including the non so legitimate suppliers of of Apple after market hardware products. That means everyone with anything that connects to an apple product that isn't apple or made by apple is a target. Geeese they don't let up do they? Developers mention that Apple will never be able to shut them down :silly: that they can and will do what they like with their iDevices cause they own them.
Oh and other thing to look out for if you go to Apple/iTunes, is this company Lodsys who are world renowned for being patent trolls who are systematically targeting individual developers for breaches in copy right for, get this......'in app purchasing' they claim that they invented it and are now suing several developers from iTunes (them personally) for using the iTunes supplied SDK for in app purchasing. Apple is doing the right thing and trying to defend these developers but the World IP org and US patents office can't do a god damned thing about it until things hurry up and get pushed through a ballot of senators to have groups like them shut down. Until then they are working their best and fastest with trying to sue as many people as they can! Unfortunately for most its a loosing battle as they don't have the money or resources to fight these bastards so they end up paying up. In an new interview I heard one company claimed it was cheeper to settle for 100K out of court than what it was to commit to defending them selves even though this group targeting them was 100% wrong.
But not meaning to scare you...or anything just keeping you filled in. Me personally I would write them a letter saying 4 words on one line followed by 4 words on a second line "Go f*%# your self" "See you in court" and go seek one of my dad's barrister friends to do it no win no fee. Screw that. I would be flaunting that I have in app purchasing sayin come at me bro
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/04/app-developers-lodsys-back
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/hey-patent-trolls-pick-someone-your-own-size
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/...t-patent-trolls-and-not-going-take-it-anymore

Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.

out of ideas said:
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Research and Understanding
Yes that is exactly what I am saying. To run Apple in a VM is in breach of their TOS and Usage policy. It also entitles them to seek prosecution also; so not just a ban from iTunes. Going by Apples past history I wouldn't put it past them? Although now with Tim Cook in charge of things I think Apple is going about things a bit more differently now? For better or worse (people had their opinions of Steve Jobs - personally I disliked him but did appreciate his success and achievements for what they stacked up to be, personal opinions aside it takes a great person to do such) Apple is starting to become a bit more valued in collaborations as this is what Tim Cook always wanted working for Apple that he was never able to have whilst Steve was the master of the helm. Tim Cook was more about getting the job done and sharing. Steve's ongoing vendetta litigations were not Tim Cooks choice and/or advice. He didn't want such things from what I have read? More recently his involvement in legal matters has been observed as retracted and no confronting; he has proceeded to do these actions as part of Steve Jobs dying wishes and nothing more.
As far as I can tell he wants to nothing more than to get things out of the way and over and done with so that he and his company can move on.
My thoughts on this as an observer in the mobile tech industry is that I think Apple has dropped the ball a bit, and it is probably far too little far too late. However with a company with that much money behind it? There's only speculations about what holds in the future of Apple? They are certainly not going away or going to fall in to ruins that's for certain.
What I mean is that, yes there has been a heap of legal stuff seen by Apple and most of it very negative, but my feeling is that this won't be the case here on into the future, so the likelihood of facing a court for breach of Terms of Use are likely to be very small. I am sure that editing a build.prop is considered a breach of Google's TOS for use of a device in their Playstore?
Suggestions
My suggestion is to give it a try I have had some issues setting up my VM but have got all the necessary resources including all the software. I have just become too busy and it is not high on the priority list at the moment. I wanted to try gain an understanding of how Apple detects it's visitors. I mean iTunes is cross platform Windows and Mac (There is no release for Ubuntu or Linux AFAIK? only Wine type hacks) I know when I visit the iTunes webpage I am automatically prompted to download a Windows installer package. So they must have some form of automatic detection? Being that the likes of Virtualbox uses a shared internet connection I would speculate that you would need to choose the correct adapter settings so that your VM is seen to be a running physical machine and not a able to be identified as a shared connection or virtualised connection?
I didn't get this far as my installation has many issues. I still have the VM though for future interest. Feel free to PM me if you give it a try and don't succeed and I am happy to share what things I discovered in my problem solving.
Understanding Limitations for Cross Platform Mobile Development
As for the porting to OS's I believe there are many offerings around now that provide developers with a cross platform arrangement. Essentially only the UI resources need to change and then that plugs into a framework structure for your application to run in. You compile the code individual applications that are specific to the platform but you ARE able to develop your main code independent of the platforms. Languages such as Flex or Rubi on rails are going to be your best bet from my research?
Things You Should Consider
1. Single code repository
2. Individual application frameworks - compilation of application runtime for independent OS type
3. Limitations are stipulated and governed by what is allow at the lowest possible denominator. i.e. You can only build code into your single code repository that can accessed by the functionality of both(or all) platforms. What I mean is that there is no use building a single code repository that uses a function that is limited on one platform and not the other, another example is restrictions dictated to you by the likes of such companies like Apple. They have a strict guidelines and what is potentially available to you may not be in its context. Just because certain functionality is available to you in the Apple platform and you have even seen it in use on Apple devices does not necessarily mean that you can build and release it. In it's context Apple may not like what you are doing with your app and not approve it.
Your single point of code and it entirety has just shrunk in functionality to both devices now. So be careful and Anticipate what you might think the outcome is for your Application facing such scrutinisation and what it could possibly mean for your project as a whole?
On this note I have heard of developers making scripts and add-ons for their said central repository that allows them to restrict things ats compile time. For instance having greyed out selections in menus and a toast like notification to users like "Sorry this functionality is only available to Android users" and things like that.
Hope this helps contribute towards people considering on such ventures. Do your research. Find out what types of apps have been rejected from being published and find the reasons for why?

lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
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I will check it in next week

We all need to band together on this

The nvidia shield tv, the most powerful android device available, which has root, twrp, and custom roms available, along with tons of support keeps failing to get its own proper forum. The discussion page we currently have is unacceptable. There is tons of people doing development on other sites as well that have no proper place to post it. Please everyone, take a few minutes a day, and request that we get a proper forum added for this device.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1660354

I agree. Thank you for taking the time to remind us about this.

More than anything, this device is missing developer support. It seems that a lot of people didnt want to see this happen. Google for one, with the restrictive OS, how easy it could have been to include an option to switch between regular Android and the mode thats been stripped of or had so many classic Android functions hidden. It blows my mind the hdmi blocks, drm, and other capabilities that get removed for the sole purpose of corporate greed. I know I'm not supposed to rant here, so consider this a rally to Nvidia TV owners to let others know how awesome of a device this could be and so hopefully the user/developer base can grow and get some proper treatment from the cable companies and others who refuse to support powerful devices like this

You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.

zelendel said:
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
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Why do other Android TV devices have a proper forum then? Maybe devs would take the device seriously, if XDA took the device seriously. I would understand that argument if it wasn't proven to be untrue with the various other forums that have been created for other tv boxes.
- Nexus Player (Android TV)
- Amazon Fire TV (Fire OS - Even more limited than Android TV)
- Mad Catz Mojo
- Ouya
Just to name a few...
I'm not trying to start a problem. It just seems like we're presented with a different argument ever other day stating why the device doesn't have or deserve a proper forum. Not too long ago, the argument was the lack of interest. Then it was the lack of development, even though we currently have custom AOSP and CyanogenMod ports, Root, TWRP and Ubuntu.
If you search for the device in the device search, you will find not one, but two separate "places" to create topics for this device. One isn't a forum. It's just a list of threads that use the shield-tv tag. If a thread is created here, it will actually post in the Android Development and Hacking > Miscellaneous Android Development forum.
The other is a sub-forum of Android TV and Stick Computers. It isn't a proper forum and it is also buried. The device isn't listed in devdb, so there's no way to add projects.
There is active interest in the device and there are a ton of users. At the moment we're using nVidia's website/forums, but we'd prefer to use XDA. Why not give in to demand? You could make a lot of XDA users happy.

zelendel said:
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
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The joke is on you and I don't care that my response will get on your nerves. You were better off keeping it hush hush than to fail at manipulative excuses.

zelendel said:
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
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Click to collapse
@ 1. So just because the shield is tied to a wallsocket and uses an external screen it is not entitled to a forum? That's a rather peculiar argument....?
@ 2. I don't think you understand the Nvidia Shield Android TV, it is just as moddable as any Android device...
And last but certainly not least you claim people don't have interest while we have proved this by the community development for the device so far. BTW the interest in the device might be bigger than you think. For instance on the Nvidia forums there are already over 10k comments in the shield tv subsection, this is over 25% of the shield portable's total comments and over 20% of the shield tablet's total comment. Considering the device is only available for a short period and is only available in the US, this means public interest is huge!
So in other words, please come up with better arguments or just add one device forum, how much harm can it possibly do?

That would be a game changer for this thing.... ... I'm in!!!!!!!!!!

Look guys. I'm just offering up ideas. The mods don't add the forums the admins do. You have asked in to proper forum and now it's up to them. They may or may not decide to give it a forum. Why or why not is their choice.
As for your statements. Just ask Linus what he thinks of Nvidia? Not the best to work with on an open source project.
The 10k posts? While might seem alot is not a whole lot on a site that sees that many every few hours.
If interest is deemed bug enough then it will get a forum. If not then it won't. No point in making thread after thread about it really.

didn't know..
XDA is some kind of mafia... I thought it's free and open, really sad.

They have proper forums for the Moto 360! A watch forum??? Give me a break. Android wear is even more restrictive then Android TV!
I think XDA admins have a bug up there arse about Nvidia. Pure and simple. If it was AMD they would already have everything.
Stop defending them.

I too, would like to register my interest for such a forum.

While I am a newcomer, I would like to register my support for this movement too. It would be nice to have singular outlet to use.

zizika said:
XDA is some kind of mafia... I thought it's free and open, really sad.
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XDA is a privately owned, membership based site.... Just to correct you.
And the Admin here decide things like forum sections.
Perhaps they'll add a full section, perhaps not. Getting angry about it isn't going to help at all.
As said, if developers are actually holding back work because of a lack of a full forum, they are only making you guys suffer. Seems a little backwards.
Let's remain respectful everyone, please.
Darth
Forum Moderator

The Nexus Q has it's own forum here and NOT the Nvidia Shield Console? That's just stupid.

zelendel said:
Look guys. I'm just offering up ideas. The mods don't add the forums the admins do. You have asked in to proper forum and now it's up to them. They may or may not decide to give it a forum. Why or why not is their choice.
As for your statements. Just ask Linus what he thinks of Nvidia? Not the best to work with on an open source project.
The 10k posts? While might seem alot is not a whole lot on a site that sees that many every few hours.
If interest is deemed bug enough then it will get a forum. If not then it won't. No point in making thread after thread about it really.
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I knew somebody was gonna say something like this. Linus Torvalds made that comment about Nvidia years ago while thwy were developing software for proprietary devices. Nvidia has already made it known how thwy feel about their Android devices. "Once you buy it its yours" and all the drivers and images are provided on their developer website so.... I still manage to find what Im looking for anyway so I can really not care very much less but this really seems like a major shrug off for some ridiculous and arbitrary reasons. Im surprised

ElwOOd_CbGp said:
I knew somebody was gonna say something like this. Linus Torvalds made that comment about Nvidia years ago while thwy were developing proprietary processors. Nvidia has already made it known how thwy feel about their Android devices. "Once you buy it its yours". I still manage to find what Im looking for anyway so I can really not care very much less but this really seems like a shrug off for some ridiculous and arbitrary reasons and Im surprised
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And it still holds true. Due to lack of any proper documentation it is really difficult to develop for these devices. Why do you think only a few even use their stuff and they had to look at other options. Yeah it's users. Do what you will with it. Doesn't mean they will help you along with it.

zelendel said:
And it still holds true. Due to lack of any proper documentation it is really difficult to develop for these devices. Why do you think only a few even use their stuff and they had to look at other options. Yeah it's users. Do what you will with it. Doesn't mean they will help you along with it.
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All the more reason for hackers to teach them a lesson? How many manufacturers post steps to unlock bootloader on their own website and encourage tinkering with their ROMs making most all source code available? Sounds more like someone has an axe to grind and doesn't care how juvenile it may look. I personally can't wait for more ROMs to get released (including CMs) while making those who want to curb down the development, look foolish. I am half surprised discussion about evil nVidia is not banned already
,

loonix said:
All the more reason for hackers to teach them a lesson? How many manufacturers post steps to unlock bootloader on their own website and encourage tinkering with their ROMs making most all source code available? Sounds more like someone has an axe to grind and doesn't care how juvenile it may look. I personally can't wait for more ROMs to get released (including CMs) while making those who want to curb down the development, look foolish. I am half surprised discussion about evil nVidia is not banned already
,
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More then you think. Why do you think Qualcomm devices are so popular among modders? Because there is all the proper documentation for working with the chip. Same reason that mediatech and exynos chip are not popular. As for unlocking the bootloader. Heck most oem show you how to do it.
As for CM. I would wish that on my worst enemy.
Now if people want to develop for it then do it. Having a forum or not will not bring more or less development.

I'm amazed that this is even an argument. A forum that generates revenues from page views doesn't want its users to have a place to view one of it's valued devices. Baffling really. Someone definitely is bitter about something. What harm is there in creating a section?