Related
It suddenly occurred to me that the main reason HTC has locked our handsets is that they don't want to deal with bogus warranty claims and the labor costs thereof. You unlock your G2's NAND, you fry your handset by overclocking too high or doing something else stupid to brick it, and then say "HURR DURR I DUNNO HOW IT GOT THAT WAY." Then they have to expend resources to determine whether or not you screwed it up.
So, what if we paid them in advance for that labor? What if we sent in our handset to have it factory un-write-protected for, say, $20-$50? Would you agree to this kind of deal?
Hell no.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Hell no all phones that I pay full price for should come completely unlocked. Let's face it these new phones are full blown computers these days. You would expect to buy a computer and have to pay extra for the right to add or delete software would you? The only way I would expect this would be if you got special pricing with a contract stateing that you are not allowed to do such things.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
shortlived said:
Hell no all phones that I pay full price for should come completely unlocked. Let's face it these new phones are full blown computers these days. You would expect to buy a computer and have to pay extra for the right to add or delete software would you? The only way I would expect this would be if you got special pricing with a contract stateing that you are not allowed to do such things.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Should" and "will" are two very different things. HTC incurs much more risk with a handset than Toshiba or Dell do with a computer -- for one thing, you can't "brick" a computer. The recovery process with a computer is significantly more standardized and easy to perform than on a smartphone. Computers don't include cellular hardware that is a jealously guarded secret from the user, that has to be accessed with binary blob drivers, that can become irreversibly software-busted if you screw up a software update.
Should there be a standardized cell phone recovery/imaging system so that it's not possible to brick ANY cell phone that uses it? Absolutely. Go develop it. No manufacturer will use it. It's not in their financial interests to do so.
If, however, enough people were to make it clear to a company like HTC that we as hobbyists were willing to incur risk and sign away our right to demand that HTC fix our mistakes... something might start to get through the cracks.
This of course ignores the fact that manufacturers and carriers like to be able to put crapware on our phones that we can't remove... but it's a start.
I think it's a fair question because so many people tool around, brick their phones and try to get a free replacement somehow. So, I'm not mad at these companies for locking their stuff down. I would not pay extra, but I would jump ship to any company that offers an unlocked phone. I think that would send the best message.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
no i wouldnt pay but i would allow them to black list my imei in trade for them unlocking the nand.
Now for the people that dont understand what im saying. I am saying that HTC should make a software for unlocking the nand but before it unlocks it reads your imei and sends it to them so they know who unlocked and who didnt
I already paid them right? Why would I have to do it again. Maybe it should be the other way around and you can buy a nand locked phone for extra $$. But let say for a lower cost than insurance?
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Yes I agree however I blame the people who don't read instructions and try to turn in they're phone. Just pay for insurance and pay the full deductable or don't try changing anything. But that's just a pipe dream. Too many people just don't read enough before doing stuff.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Would you pay nike money so you could were your shoes after you bought them from the mall. Why would I pay you to give me acsess to my own phone it should come that way
xile6 said:
no i wouldnt pay but i would allow them to black list my imei in trade for them unlocking the nand.
Now for the people that dont understand what im saying. I am saying that HTC should make a software for unlocking the nand but before it unlocks it reads your imei and sends it to them so they know who unlocked and who didnt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would rather have this as well. I already paid for the phone. It is mine. If they are worried about me making bogus warranty claims, then I should be able to opt-out and get full access to my device in return.
The imei number idea I kind of like. Instead of 'blacklisting', let me sign a release of liability where I register my serial number and by doing so waiver any liability from that point on
Sent from deep inside my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
hell no, we won't go! Hell no, we won't go!! Hell no, we won't go!!! Hell no, we won't go!!!!
So when your phone legitimately fails due to a hardware issue you can pay full price for a new one? Why would anyone opt for this? That's not even legally feasible. It would violate lemon laws all over the place.
I would be willing to up to $40 so long as there were guaranteed to be tons of ROMS, themes, recovery options, etc... I want my G1 development back!
Only because I'm inpatient however, and sick of waiting for full root and custom recovery. Basically anyone who pledged in the fun money for dev's thread would be saying yes.
gravis86 said:
I would rather have this as well. I already paid for the phone. It is mine. If they are worried about me making bogus warranty claims, then I should be able to opt-out and get full access to my device in return.
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Click to collapse
That is precisely what we do when we agree to "root/unlock" our phones. Essentially voiding our warranty, people who do it accept and understand the risks. HTC, make a legal agreement and we'll all accept it in return you let us Nand unlock!!!
Thanks.
*HOPE A HTC REPRESENTATIVE READS THIS**
Ya, if I didn't pay full price for the phone. Nand locked=discounted price, nand unlocked=full price-- warranty includes movable parts only
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
shortlived said:
Hell no all phones that I pay full price for should come completely unlocked. Let's face it these new phones are full blown computers these days. You would expect to buy a computer and have to pay extra for the right to add or delete software would you? The only way I would expect this would be if you got special pricing with a contract stateing that you are not allowed to do such things.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/18/intel-wants-to-charge-50-to-unlock-stuff-your-cpu-can-already-d/
*EDIT*
I forgot to add, this is completely ridiculous.. I want my G2 fully unlocked asap, including SIM unlocked.
My Bounty is already up. If HTC wants to take it to unlock our phones. They can
Simunlock i can do for you heheh
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
I'd bet fewer than 10% of users root their phones, figure a 10% brick rate among those people and that's 1%. Now ask yourself what percentage of people phisically break their phones? Having said that, one thing is controllable the other isn't .
BTW....HELL NO!!!
When they swapped my fascinate for an incredible 2, they didn't include a Global SIM and i will be traveling out of the country for like 5 days this weekend, anyway...
i walked into a Verizon store yesterday and shortly after, a guy offered to help me, i told him that i have the inc2 which is global and needed the global SIM card for it, he replied that my phone wasn't a global phone, that i needed to call a 1-800 for them to send me one, i insisted that my phone was global and after 4 times insisting to him he said "wait" walked to one of the demo inc2 and looked at the specs and features, he said "oh ok so it is a Global phone"
then i asked again, so what about that global SIM card i need, he then called another associate and asked him about the SIM, the other associate replied, "but you need a global phone for that, the country that you're going uses GSM and you need a GSM phone, yours is CDMA" at that point i just gave up talking to both of them and left, aparently they don't know the very phones they sell.
Hahah what tards.
Snakehn said:
When they swapped my fascinate for an incredible 2, they didn't include a Global SIM and i will be traveling out of the country for like 5 days this weekend, anyway...
i walked into a Verizon store yesterday and shortly after, a guy offered to help me, i told him that i have the inc2 which is global and needed the global SIM card for it, he replied that my phone wasn't a global phone, that i needed to call a 1-800 for them to send me one, i insisted that my phone was global and after 4 times insisting to him he said "wait" walked to one of the demo inc2 and looked at the specs and features, he said "oh ok so it is a Global phone"
then i asked again, so what about that global SIM card i need, he then called another associate and asked him about the SIM, the other associate replied, "but you need a global phone for that, the country that you're going uses GSM and you need a GSM phone, yours is CDMA" at that point i just gave up talking to both of them and left, aparently they don't know the very phones they sell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha wow nice story. I personally think Verzion people are only hired to sell phones not know them or at least that's how I try to justify their ignorance. If you really want to get anything done you kinda have to call Verizon I'm sure they can set something up. Alternatively you can visit another store just make sure you report it to Verizon they give you free stuff and you might end up with a new phone.
The sales people at the stores are a giant mixed bag. The guy I bought my I2 from wasn't highly knowledgeable about the technology, but he knew the devices well enough to sell them, and was actually somewhat eager to hear some of my insights.
I've had worse luck with talking to people at the call centers.
You can just call Verizon and get an unlock code and use the sim of your choice from that country
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App
bradsinram said:
You can just call Verizon and get an unlock code and use the sim of your choice from that country
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
yeah that's what i ended up doing.
Ha! I usually end up more knowledgable about the devices than the sales reps at my local store too (and that's not sayin much!) but this time around, when I bought my I2, I actually had a guy who recognized MIUI on my INC 1 that my daughter was inheriting from me. He gave me a nod and advised that if I ever have trouble, make sure I unroot before bringing the phone in....I said "yeah, gotcha "
new to verizon and the local corp. store has been really good. I did go to an "authorized retailer" once and they were retarded. My wife wanted to try the iphone4 since she had never had one and they told me that iphones didn't sell so they didn't stock them. They also told me that android was the only mobile OS that was good.
I laughed at them.
Apparently, they don't get much profit off the iphones, otherwise they would have had them.
Your story reminds me of this:
http://youtu.be/nYk0dQrz3uc
XD
nrfitchett4 said:
new to verizon and the local corp. store has been really good. I did go to an "authorized retailer" once and they were retarded. My wife wanted to try the iphone4 since she had never had one and they told me that iphones didn't sell so they didn't stock them. They also told me that android was the only mobile OS that was good.
I laughed at them.
Apparently, they don't get much profit off the iphones, otherwise they would have had them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as I am an Android fanboy, I'll still admit that iOS is a good mobile platform. The only two I'll really bash is Windows mobile and Blackberry OS. I haven't really messed with WebOS to really form an opinion about it.
As an employee of an Indirect sales location, I LOVE when people who frequent this site come in and try to "one-up" on phone knowledge. They may know certain phones better than me but as an avid android fanboy I play with all of them and check up into every phones forum just to see how its doing (root,ROMs,themes,reviews) The best way to find out if an associate knows what they are talking about ask them what real world Mbps they can get on 3g/4g and see the response.
It's usually a blank stare...
The ones here were thoroughly convinced that the Tbolt sim was compatible with global and vise versa with the Inc2. I walked out of the store while he was in mid sentence.
Another rep at a Verizon kiosk in the mall told me any Verizon phone will automatically convert to 4G OTA as soon as it comes out for us.
Store reps are idiots. Usually helpful and nice but they're dumb.
If I hear one more of those guys tell me I should download a task killer I'm going to burn the store down
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
Hey, not all of us store reps are uneducated about the products we sell... but most are . I'l admit, I do enjoy when someone who knows at least a little bit about Android and just Verizon stuff in general comes in, but y'all'd really be surprised at how uneducated some of the people that come in are.
"What's an iPhone?"
In the middle of a city. True story.
Rule of thumb: if a rep knows what XDA is, he's not totally clueless. My regional manager likes to say there are three kinds of reps: sharks, techies and customer service. The sharks are the people that rock at sales, but don't know or care much about what they sell. The customer service makes sure all the customers stay happy and have their problems resolved. The techies make sure the other two stay out of trouble. There's a reason why 50+ reps in my area have me on their speed-dial, sadly.
Personally, I only buy phones from vz's site. Most of the Verizon stores are franchise's and are dumb people just selling phones.
I'm sure their are a few of you that now what your talking about, but its few.
06stang said:
Store reps are idiots. Usually helpful and nice but they're dumb.
If I hear one more of those guys tell me I should download a task killer I'm going to burn the store down
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a co worker and that's all she keeps doing. I keep telling her to root her phone and install a rom. However, she has had bad experiences with windows phones and is afraid. I keep telling her Android is different. The developers actually are very knowledgeable and create really great stuff. Hopefully, one day I can convince her. She has a t-moble LG G2x.
nrfitchett4 said:
Apparently, they don't get much profit off the iphones, otherwise they would have had them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I work for Best Buy, we make about $15 off of each iPhone we sell... its pretty crappy. But what we don't make on the phone we make on the teenage girls who have to have a different case for each outfit they wear.
Someone mentioned call center troubles...I had a Droid 2 and I was just complaining to try and get them to authorize an early upgrade. I said it was slow...the lady on the phone told me that she's sure I can swap out the processor for a faster one from eBay. I gave up with phone support after that. LOL.
And here is where you say "cool story bro"...
Sent from my ADR6350
Snakehn said:
When they swapped my fascinate for an incredible 2, they didn't include a Global SIM and i will be traveling out of the country for like 5 days this weekend, anyway...
i walked into a Verizon store yesterday and shortly after, a guy offered to help me, i told him that i have the inc2 which is global and needed the global SIM card for it, he replied that my phone wasn't a global phone, that i needed to call a 1-800 for them to send me one, i insisted that my phone was global and after 4 times insisting to him he said "wait" walked to one of the demo inc2 and looked at the specs and features, he said "oh ok so it is a Global phone"
then i asked again, so what about that global SIM card i need, he then called another associate and asked him about the SIM, the other associate replied, "but you need a global phone for that, the country that you're going uses GSM and you need a GSM phone, yours is CDMA" at that point i just gave up talking to both of them and left, aparently they don't know the very phones they sell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently most of these Verizon techs are clueless about the Inc2.. When I had convinced the tech over the phone to let me trade phones rather than do yet another warrenty claim on my Samsung Fascinate, he told me my options, and stated explicitly that the Droid Pro was the global phone. Then of course I looked up reviews and found out the Inc2 was a global phone as well.
So a nice feature I was getting that I had no idea about, because the tech apparently didn't know either.
im sure some of the customers are pretty uneducated, but i have yet to meet a store rep who actually knows their products or makes an earnest effort to help when i have a legitimate problem. i only go into the stores if i absolutely have to, it's always been a pretty awful experience lately. i've been with them for about 10 years, and i like my incredible II well enough, but I really regret going with them this time around. I think I have about one more bad experience in me before i call it a day, pay the etf and sign up with sprint.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
I've been long time iOS dev/user but I'm considering jumping ship and getting the Note 2. I'm a Verizon user though and I'm not really interested in switching carriers right now. My concern is that since I see that the S3 from Verizon had a locked bootloader, is it likely that the Note 2 will as well? I'm sure no one knows, because it's not been released yet, but maybe...just maybe...some nice Verizon tester might spill the beans before release :fingers-crossed:
I'm no dev but I have a vzw gs3 that shipped with a locked bootloader and thanks to an African Canadian sock monkey its unlocked now! with as popular as the note was and the fact that it'll finally be coming to big red I would imagine another sock monkey would grace us *fingers crossed*
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
If it comes locked, I have confidence that someone at XDA will get it unlocked or work around it.
mcsenerd said:
I've been long time iOS dev/user but I'm considering jumping ship and getting the Note 2. I'm a Verizon user though and I'm not really interested in switching carriers right now. My concern is that since I see that the S3 from Verizon had a locked bootloader, is it likely that the Note 2 will as well? I'm sure no one knows, because it's not been released yet, but maybe...just maybe...some nice Verizon tester might spill the beans before release :fingers-crossed:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
verizon likes to use the locked bootloader, i dont think they do this just to be difficult, i think it more effectively separates the people who want to try stuff but have zero clue what they are doing from ruining their phone (sometimes) by hozing a rom load.
i am no expert, but i anyone can google a rom, and anyone can load cwm or twrp (usually) and root a phone... by adding an extra step before you can load roms it forces people to either a: read long post with step by step instructions to do it properely, or dl a tool to do it for them, at which point they will also usually find tools and instructions not to hose their phone when loading roms...
is it annoying? sure... but its not the end of the world...
With Verizon, they don't really want you to own your phone. They want to make it difficult to remove all the crap they load onto it so that they can make extra money from selling devices. That's why they fought so hard against selling the Galaxy Nexus and pushed everyone to the Droid Razr.
lnxbz said:
With Verizon, they don't really want you to own your phone. They want to make it difficult to remove all the crap they load onto it so that they can make extra money from selling devices. That's why they fought so hard against selling the Galaxy Nexus and pushed everyone to the Droid Razr.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't Verizon lost a case against a customer on installing wifi ethering app? That was a good day for consumers.
yes the bootloader will be locked
http://briefmobile.com/exclusive-verizon-samsung-galaxy-note-2-bootloader-locked
littleguevara said:
yes the bootloader will be locked
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Click to collapse
That's disappointing even if not entirely unexpected. I'm sure that it will be worked around in due time, but I do wish it wasn't an unnecessary roadblock there in the first place. Although, I will say that Apple's been pretty successful in squashing the jailbreakers on the A5 and up devices thus far. Done right...it's not always so easy to break through against crap like this.
someone0 said:
Didn't Verizon lost a case against a customer on installing wifi ethering app? That was a good day for consumers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that the FCC ruled that blocking tethering on the LTE bands is a violation of the requirements for them. Not sure how likely that will stop Verizon though.
ronaldheld said:
If it comes locked, I have confidence that someone at XDA will get it unlocked or work around it.
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Click to collapse
this is the wrong way around it IMHO. vote with your money: don't buy, do switch carriers.
sometimes i wish hackers stopped hacking locked bootloaders and iphones. people should start taking responsibility for their purchase decisions. awww u bought that locked phone?? well, throw it out the window when u r finished paying for it and next time around try choosing better! if people stopped buying they would stop locking.
Lanchon said:
this is the wrong way around it IMHO. vote with your money: don't buy, do switch carriers.
sometimes i wish hackers stopped hacking locked bootloaders and iphones. people should start taking responsibility for their purchase decisions. awww u bought that locked phone?? well, throw it out the window when u r finished paying for it and next time around try choosing better! if people stopped buying they would stop locking.
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Click to collapse
Well, if you buy something you should own it, right. At least that's the idea. To me, at least locking the bootloader on open platform is wrong. If the carrier want to lock it, do it on iPhone and Windows phone. But I do agree that you should vote with your money AND VOICE. Let other people know about it too. Company like Verizon not gonna change if you aren't being vocal about it. But seriously, don't hope that XDA will just can unlock anything. If you go look for Motorola Photon 4G and you unlock the bootloader, you will break 4G. It have been out for over a year now and have still have no complete unlock.
someone0 said:
Well, if you buy something you should own it, right. At least that's the idea. To me, at least locking the bootloader on open platform is wrong. If the carrier want to lock it, do it on iPhone and Windows phone. But I do agree that you should vote with your money AND VOICE. Let other people know about it too. Company like Verizon not gonna change if you aren't being vocal about it. But seriously, don't hope that XDA will just can unlock anything. If you go look for Motorola Photon 4G and you unlock the bootloader, you will break 4G. It have been out for over a year now and have still have no complete unlock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the thing. Most people buy it under contract, and the court ruling in 1998 treats this subsidization like a loan. You don't own the device until the contractual agreement is met whether by termination fee or by completing the contract. They also said there has to be a diminishing return on the termination fee which we have now on all carriers.
Sometimes theres not much choice, if i want the note 2 and don't want to be stuck on 2g or no service than I HAVE to pick verizon or buy a new home somewhere else... Ill pick verizon and xda to unlock instead of moving my family
Sent from my MB870 using xda app-developers app
You don't have to choose Verizon. You can just not have service which affects Verizon's bottom line which in turn affects their choices. This will affect all carriers. Make them work harder for your money.
By percentage those of use who will "strike" until we get an unlocked bootloader are too small economically to make a difference, IMO.
Which is why there are so few choices to begin with for decent service, in almost every city you have choices, out in the boonies we just don't have providers.
Sent from my MB870 using xda app-developers app
If you're considering it, maybe do it before then!
http://mashable.com/2013/01/23/unlocking-cellphones-illegal/
They can take their "laws" and shove'em. Might as well openly tell us they are doing as told to do so by the rich companies. At the end of the day people will still do it and most likely users on craigslist will end up making more money by unlocking them for users. =s
vanberge said:
If you're considering it, maybe do it before then!
http://mashable.com/2013/01/23/unlocking-cellphones-illegal/
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Click to collapse
but that's only for flashing phones to diff. carriers not unlocking bootloaders or rooting phones no?
luisrod03 said:
but that's only for flashing phones to diff. carriers not unlocking bootloaders or rooting phones no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct. Rooting is still legal.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
(Note that unlocking is different from "jailbreaking," which opens the phone up for running additional software and remains legal for smartphones.)
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app
Making things like this illegal will just make people do it more. When the government steps in an says no you cannot do something to something you have purchased then that becomes a major issue. As far as I am concerned once you enter a contract the phone is yours to do with what you want. If you break that contract then there is an ETF. If you refuse to pay the ETF then the carrier must go after you VIA other channels. It would be the same as leasing a car and then not paying on it but while you owned it you repainted it. LOL
this is just dumb.
all thats going to result from this is that you can charge allot more when unlocking a phone on craigslist or something like that. **** i used to charge 20 bucks to unlock iphones before i got tired of handling icrap
remember laws are meant to be broken so who cares what they come up with... besides this goes back to the arguments many have had on this forum and other ones ...
if i bought the device with my money that i earned the device is mine and i can do whatever i want to do with it . if i put sprint phone on verizon and i pay my bill then im not stealing or anything like that yeah its not "right" or what they want us to do but $hit many of the things carriers do to us the consumers aint right either... as long as your doing this things for your personal device and not for stalking or in any way affect or hurt someone else who cares what the law says.....
oh and to those who follow the rules to the T and dont like my statement dont even bother replying ...
Ma$etas said:
remember laws are meant to be broken so who cares what they come up with... besides this goes back to the arguments many have had on this forum and other ones ...
if i bought the device with my money that i earned the device is mine and i can do whatever i want to do with it . if i put sprint phone on verizon and i pay my bill then im not stealing or anything like that yeah its not "right" or what they want us to do but $hit many of the things carriers do to us the consumers aint right either... as long as your doing this things for your personal device and not for stalking or in any way affect or hurt someone else who cares what the law says.....
oh and to those who follow the rules to the T and dont like my statement dont even bother replying ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like your statement!!! I IGNORE rules to the T.:beer::beer::beer::screwy::sly:
Pp.
Transmitted from another galaxy with a Jellybean infused P-5113 full of Unicorn porn.
Lasted I checked I bought my phone with my money and I will do whatever I want to do with it. Government can go stick it up their butts.
Can you even use this phone on another carrier? If so, what are the adverse consequences of unlocking it now?
I dont think the reasoning behind the law is to stop individual users, but to be able to stop stores/phiscal locations that unlock phones. There's about a bazillion phone stores that you literally can walk in and have a phone unlocked and activated.
bobturismo said:
I dont think the reasoning behind the law is to stop individual users, but to be able to stop stores/phiscal locations that unlock phones. There's about a bazillion phone stores that you literally can walk in and have a phone unlocked and activated.
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Click to collapse
If the carrier allows you to bring your own device the government needs to stay the hell out of it. This is just one more law to generate revenue that will be next to impossible to fully enforce, just like drug laws. There's more damn drugs imported to this country and on the streets than there was when the "war on drugs" began. Land of the free my ass, if the person is hurting no one other than themselves thats their choice. Just like you should be able to do whatever the fork you want with your device that you paid for and no one should be able to say boo about it. What's next? Gonna say I can't install linux on my PC cuz it shipped with windoze? Guess where you can stick your "laws"?
I like to break stuff!
Not only is the company making money off you when you sign the contract, they're making money when you buy a phone from them. They're pissed off because they're not getting any money for the device. Greed pure and simple. Another bit of proof that large companies have the government in their pockets. They tell the politicians to make laws that protect the company's interests. I say screw those companies and stop doing business with them. Let your money do the talking and voting.
The revolving door. Smh
Sorry but it makes sense to me... in some areas. I bought my E4GT used with a clean ESN and had it flashed to Cricket. $250 total investment (including flash and porting my existing number over), and I pay less than $60 a month. I don't get 4g but I'm always around WiFi anyway, so it's a sweet deal. But...
A few years back, my old BlackBerry on Sprint was stolen. The jackhole that took it most likely walked into a Cricket store and had it flashed and activated the same day without issue.
Also, who's to stop a contract Sprint customer from reporting a phone stolen, paying a deductible for a nice replacement, then selling the "stolen" phone on Craigslist (with a clearly advertised bad ESN for Cricket/Boost/Metro only) for a handsome profit? It only takes a few to spoil the bunch, but this is actually pretty common.
But if I buy a clean and clear phone outright LEGALLY, shouldn't I have the right to flash it to whatever carrier is compatible? There really should be some kind of middle ground, where only clean ESN phones can be legally flashed. I can see some good intentions here, but as usual, Uncle Sam goes about it in a really dumb way, bending everybody over while smiling and trying to convince us it's for the best
Trolling from my Cricket-flashed Galaxy S2 E4GT using Tapatalk 2
Im sure CDMA has long gone bee shafted. This is more as the shaft to GSM American users. Guess american businesses will lose more cash at the end of day with users either preferring to buy international unlocked phones or going the "breaking the law" route. Who is there to enforce it? And how.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Anyone able to offer a tutorial so I can unlock my phone today before it's illegal? No joke either I really want to do this before it's illegal.
It's a E4GT on Sprint wanting to flash to Metro in the Bay Area.
Zspy1985 said:
Anyone able to offer a tutorial so I can unlock my phone today before it's illegal? No joke either I really want to do this before it's illegal.
It's a E4GT on Sprint wanting to flash to Metro in the Bay Area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming you got a sprint e4gt why even ask? This applies to GSM devices when they mean unlock, they mean unlock it network wise ATT/T-Mobile vice versa.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Yes. I believe ESN swapping is still considered illegal.
But you can still unlock your gsm phone legally, you just have to ask the carrier first. Just tell them you are going oversees
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
As part of my pledge not to buy devices that aren't unlockable, I returned my phone today. Even though I was one of the lucky ones who managed to unlock it, on principle, I won't pay for devices that I can't take ownership of the software on. I did get half of my restocking fee waived; here's how I did it.
First off, before you even begin trying to convince someone else that you're right, you have to convince yourself. After all, if you don't think you're right, how do you expect anyone else to take your point of view? Luckily, if you choose to return this device because it isn't what was advertised, you are right. The reason why I expect to be able to return the phone is that it simply isn't the same device that I bought. When I bought the device, on day 1, it was an HTC One -- like every other HTC One, it was factory-unlockable. Any device that anybody calls an HTC One, until then, was an unlockable phone. And, indeed, on day 1, it was -- up until Verizon removed the feature that I purchased on, around 24 hours later.
So, just like it would be if you bought an HTC One, and instead it was made out of cheap polycarbonate (sorry, SGS4 fanboys!) instead of aluminum, you bought something that was different than you were expecting to buy. (When someone sells you something that's not what you got in a way that affects its value or utility, that means that it's "materially different"; that is to say, it's different in a way that caused you to do something different than you otherwise would have.) In that case, you're right to return the device, and obviously you shouldn't pay fees to someone who sold you something materially different than what you thought you were buying.
Now that you're convinced that you shouldn't pay a restocking fee, how do you do it?
I walked into a Verizon Wireless store (in my case, the one on San Tomas Expy., in Santa Clara, CA), and clearly told the man at the door -- the manager -- what my problem is, and what I'd like. I told him that I'd like to return the device, and why I felt that I should be refunded, without going into much detail. He agreed, and said that I'd have to call customer service to have the fee waived and applied as a credit, but that he'd be happy to help in any way he could. He suggested that I call *611 first to make sure that I'd get it waived, and then he'd process it; so, I did.
It got somewhat more hairy there. The person who initially answered my call to *611 said that she wouldn't be able to do anything, and under no circumstances would she be able to refund my restocking fee. I expected this, and you should too: the first-level drones can't do anything for you (but you should be polite to them anyway). She offered to transfer me to a "customer satisfaction representative", which I happily accepted.
We went back and forth a few times. One of the things that they will tell you is that once you return the phone, they can't sell it as new anymore; you can respond by saying that you understand that it doesn't have as much value to them, but that it simply doesn't work for your purposes, and that they have an obligation to refund you for something that's materially different from what they advertised. They may have to speak to the store manager; that's okay, let them. Be patient and polite, but firm.
They may begin offering compromises. At this point, it's up to you. For instance, I was offered a $10 credit; I decided that wasn't good enough. You can remind the person on the phone of how long you've been a customer, if you have that sort of status -- again, be polite, but firm. I was eventually offered a refund of half of the restocking fee, which I took (applied as a credit to my account).
But, if that's not good enough for you, you don't have to take it. Depending on how much you value your time, you have other opportunities. You can talk to your credit card issuer; again, be patient and polite. (If you're talking to an issuer, don't use the word "unlock", since they can very easily confuse it with a SIM unlock. Be perfectly clear -- refer to the feature as "the HTCDev feature", or "custom software support".) They may be willing to refund your money, and then they'll work it out with Verizon Wireless later.
If you have *way* too much free time, you could even use small claims court. Again, remember that phrase, "materially different" -- it is! You don't need a lawyer to go to small claims court (and, indeed, in many small claims courts, lawyers aren't allowed!).
tl;dr: Yes, it's possible to return your One with either no restocking fee or a reduced restocking fee. You shouldn't settle for a phone that you don't control -- as the EFF says, 'you own it, you pwn it'. If it bothers you, you should put your money where your mouth is, and return it -- then, but a phone that's unlockable.
joshua_ said:
As part of my pledge not to buy devices that aren't unlockable, I returned my phone today. Even though I was one of the lucky ones who managed to unlock it, on principle, I won't pay for devices that I can't take ownership of the software on. I did get half of my restocking fee waived; here's how I did it.
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Click to collapse
Wait, are you saying that you were able to return your bootloader unlocked/tampered phone? How did you get them to do that? I'm only asking because I am in the exact same situation as you and potentially thinking about getting the Moto X coming out this week. *flamesuit for that phone* lol
They let you unlock it via the HTC site, for a day at least. I feel that would still allow you to return it. The warranty is voided but there is nothing that stated you cannot return it. I'd think based on that you'd have a great argument too return it.
sent from my blue police box flying through time.....
Syn Ack said:
Wait, are you saying that you were able to return your bootloader unlocked/tampered phone? How did you get them to do that? I'm only asking because I am in the exact same situation as you and potentially thinking about getting the Moto X coming out this week. *flamesuit for that phone* lol
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Click to collapse
They don't check.
I exchanged my unlocked One for another and then unlocked that one as well.
Well you weren't really "duped" per say. Its not like Verizon's like "Hey come check out the HTC One!!! Its boot loader unlocked!!!"
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
karn101 said:
They don't check.
I exchanged my unlocked One for another and then unlocked that one as well.
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Click to collapse
So you managed to get and unlock two phones in less than the 24 hours we had to unlock the phone?
Sent from my locked Verizon HTC One
crazyg0od33 said:
So you managed to get and unlock two phones in less than the 24 hours we had to unlock the phone?
Sent from my locked Verizon HTC One
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Click to collapse
Yes. First one had a dead pixel. Jumped on the train and went through the rain to the store because I knew HTCDEV would be locked down. Exhanged it, double and triple checked the new one. Ran home and unlocked it again.
karn101 said:
Yes. First one had a dead pixel. Jumped on the train and went through the rain to the store because I knew HTCDEV would be locked down. Exhanged it, double and triple checked the new one. Ran home and unlocked it again.
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Click to collapse
wow thats fast AND lucky haha
Syn Ack said:
Wait, are you saying that you were able to return your bootloader unlocked/tampered phone? How did you get them to do that? I'm only asking because I am in the exact same situation as you and potentially thinking about getting the Moto X coming out this week. *flamesuit for that phone* lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I did was put a stock recovery on it, put it in the box, and bring it back to the store. (I sure didn't relock it first, since it would still say tampered, and then if they rejected it, I'd have a phone that both said "tampered" *and* was locked. ****ty situation!)
Usually I would feel bad about bringing a phone back to the store that said "tampered", or otherwise that I had modified in such a way that they couldn't do their normal reconditioning process on it. In this case, they screwed me; it's on them.
antp121 said:
Well you weren't really "duped" per say. Its not like Verizon's like "Hey come check out the HTC One!!! Its boot loader unlocked!!!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, but they did say "Come check out the HTC One" -- not, "the HTC One Minus", or "the HTC One, Almost", or "the HTC One-like". Different people look for different features; again, think about what it would be if the Verizon HTC One was made out of polycarb, instead of aluminum. I don't care, as long as the fit and finish is still as good, but I can imagine that someone out there would -- and it wouldn't be an HTC One.
You make a good point that I should clarify, though. They don't have to explicitly advertise something -- the important bit is what a reasonable person would be lead to believe.
joshua_ said:
All I did was put a stock recovery on it, put it in the box, and bring it back to the store. (I sure didn't relock it first, since it would still say tampered, and then if they rejected it, I'd have a phone that both said "tampered" *and* was locked. ****ty situation!)
Usually I would feel bad about bringing a phone back to the store that said "tampered", or otherwise that I had modified in such a way that they couldn't do their normal reconditioning process on it. In this case, they screwed me; it's on them.
No, but they did say "Come check out the HTC One" -- not, "the HTC One Minus", or "the HTC One, Almost", or "the HTC One-like". Different people look for different features; again, think about what it would be if the Verizon HTC One was made out of polycarb, instead of aluminum. I don't care, as long as the fit and finish is still as good, but I can imagine that someone out there would -- and it wouldn't be an HTC One.
You make a good point that I should clarify, though. They don't have to explicitly advertise something -- the important bit is what a reasonable person would be lead to believe.
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Click to collapse
Yes but an unlocked bootloader is not a feature and is definitely not promised. Its like someone saying that vzw One is not the same because of the logos on the back. Tbh I don't think you should've gotten a discounted restocking fee because of the bootloader. I think the fee is bs to begin with but this does not count as legitimate reason. You say a reasonable person would be lead to believe but that's basically assuming and making inferences with data going against your claims. Have any Verizon devices been unlockable in the past? Very few with less and less with the passing time. Not trying to flame you I just don't like people complaining about buying a locked device with expectations higher than they should be lol
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
antp121 said:
Yes but an unlocked bootloader is not a feature and is definitely not promised. Its like someone saying that vzw One is not the same because of the logos on the back. Tbh I don't think you should've gotten a discounted restocking fee because of the bootloader. I think the fee is bs to begin with but this does not count as legitimate reason. You say a reasonable person would be lead to believe but that's basically assuming and making inferences with data going against your claims. Have any Verizon devices been unlockable in the past? Very few with less and less with the passing time. Not trying to flame you I just don't like people complaining about buying a locked device with expectations higher than they should be lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good points.
I'd argue that it *is* a real feature -- it's something that you care about, and that I care about, and that most of us care about, to be sure! Being able to control and verify the software running on my device is very valuable to me.
This is not just a hypothetical -- I *did* buy the device because when I bought it, it was unlockable. I checked XDA, and it was unlockable on HTCDev; there exist other Verizon devices (like my Thunderbolt!) that are unlockable on HTCDev, and my current phone -- the Galaxy Nexus -- is also an unlockable device. So it's not unheardof to have an unlockable Verizon phone, though I will grant you that it is getting more rare with time.
I don't think I would have complained if it were not unlockable on day 1. Everybody checks before they buy; I think your argument was that "if you don't check, you're not a reasonable person" -- and that sure is true. What idiot *doesn't* go on XDA first before they buy a phone? The thing that got me is that I bought it with the ultimately reasonable expectation that it'd stay an unlockable device. Even though my device was unlocked, an unlocked device without a community is basically as good as a locked device.
So you're totally right. If I had bought a locked device, and expected it to be unlockable, then I'd be an idiot. But for those of you who got screwed on day 1 -- or bought the device with the reasonable expectation that it'd be unlockable, and then it wasn't -- you probably have a real case.
Whistle whistle whistle...
joshua_ said:
Good points.
I'd argue that it *is* a real feature -- it's something that you care about, and that I care about, and that most of us care about, to be sure! Being able to control and verify the software running on my device is very valuable to me.
This is not just a hypothetical -- I *did* buy the device because when I bought it, it was unlockable. I checked XDA, and it was unlockable on HTCDev; there exist other Verizon devices (like my Thunderbolt!) that are unlockable on HTCDev, and my current phone -- the Galaxy Nexus -- is also an unlockable device. So it's not unheardof to have an unlockable Verizon phone, though I will grant you that it is getting more rare with time.
I don't think I would have complained if it were not unlockable on day 1. Everybody checks before they buy; I think your argument was that "if you don't check, you're not a reasonable person" -- and that sure is true. What idiot *doesn't* go on XDA first before they buy a phone? The thing that got me is that I bought it with the ultimately reasonable expectation that it'd stay an unlockable device. Even though my device was unlocked, an unlocked device without a community is basically as good as a locked device.
So you're totally right. If I had bought a locked device, and expected it to be unlockable, then I'd be an idiot. But for those of you who got screwed on day 1 -- or bought the device with the reasonable expectation that it'd be unlockable, and then it wasn't -- you probably have a real case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree almost 100% however, I still wouldn't consider an unlockable bootloader as a "feature". It was pretty dumb vzw locking it up day 1, but once again, that happened with the Rezound, inc 4g lte and the Droid DNA iirc. They all were unlockable for a short amount of time before Verizon pulled the plug. Its just a matter of time before either:
A) HTC finds it in their hearts to reopen htcdev for vzw skus (highly unlikey)
B) some genius finds an exploit.
The unlocking of the bootloader is very important to me but I've learned to have VERY low expectations with anything verizon gets their hands on haha
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
antp121 said:
I agree almost 100% however, I still wouldn't consider an unlockable bootloader as a "feature". It was pretty dumb vzw locking it up day 1, but once again, that happened with the Rezound, inc 4g lte and the Droid DNA iirc. They all were unlockable for a short amount of time before Verizon pulled the plug. Its just a matter of time before either:
A) HTC finds it in their hearts to reopen htcdev for vzw skus (highly unlikey)
B) some genius finds an exploit.
The unlocking of the bootloader is very important to me but I've learned to have VERY low expectations with anything verizon gets their hands on haha
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
#blameant
At what point did they promise "you'd own the software" or an unlocked bootloader... I know I'm going to get a lot of **** for this but seriously get off your high-horse and stop trying to manipulate the system. When you get screwed over that's one thing. Nowhere does it say that you can root, rom, or unlock a device. It's assumed risk...
---------- Post added at 05:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 AM ----------
joshua_ said:
Good points.
I'd argue that it *is* a real feature -- it's something that you care about, and that I care about, and that most of us care about, to be sure! Being able to control and verify the software running on my device is very valuable to me.
This is not just a hypothetical -- I *did* buy the device because when I bought it, it was unlockable. I checked XDA, and it was unlockable on HTCDev; there exist other Verizon devices (like my Thunderbolt!) that are unlockable on HTCDev, and my current phone -- the Galaxy Nexus -- is also an unlockable device. So it's not unheardof to have an unlockable Verizon phone, though I will grant you that it is getting more rare with time.
I don't think I would have complained if it were not unlockable on day 1. Everybody checks before they buy; I think your argument was that "if you don't check, you're not a reasonable person" -- and that sure is true. What idiot *doesn't* go on XDA first before they buy a phone? The thing that got me is that I bought it with the ultimately reasonable expectation that it'd stay an unlockable device. Even though my device was unlocked, an unlocked device without a community is basically as good as a locked device.
So you're totally right. If I had bought a locked device, and expected it to be unlockable, then I'd be an idiot. But for those of you who got screwed on day 1 -- or bought the device with the reasonable expectation that it'd be unlockable, and then it wasn't -- you probably have a real case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so based on you "PERSONAL' preferences you are mad cause they didn't meet them. You knew there was a risk of this... If not you seriously need to rethink what to expect. Saying that I could argue that fact that I wish my phone could kill people cause it's important to me...
---------- Post added at 05:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 AM ----------
antp121 said:
I agree almost 100% however, I still wouldn't consider an unlockable bootloader as a "feature". It was pretty dumb vzw locking it up day 1, but once again, that happened with the Rezound, inc 4g lte and the Droid DNA iirc. They all were unlockable for a short amount of time before Verizon pulled the plug. Its just a matter of time before either:
A) HTC finds it in their hearts to reopen htcdev for vzw skus (highly unlikey)
B) some genius finds an exploit.
The unlocking of the bootloader is very important to me but I've learned to have VERY low expectations with anything verizon gets their hands on haha
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post right here is 100% accurate. And obviously someone who understands the truth behind this.
A "reasonable" person knows that Verizon loves to lock their boot loaders up tight.
You got lucky to get the fee waived or partially waived. Nobody should expect to get theirs waived for this reason.
I'm keeping my One. I have faith in our devs and know that I'll soon be able to unlock.
Sent from my HTC One.
Bottom line is that in retail you can get what you want if you are willing to be their fly in the ointment (or PITA). As illustrated by the OP, you can be a nuisance, even without being rude, and get your way.
I personally would pay the restocking fee instead of dealing with the hastle of haggling over it. Not worth my time and stress. But hats off to those that can stick to their guns and get a refund. I just hope I'm not behind you in line cause we'll be here forever
Sent using xda app-developers app
Wow, you got duped. I've never paid restocking. And they've never had to get permission from corporate to do it. The manager on site can waive your restocking fee and if they feel they will lose business if they don't waive it, they will.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4