Develop Bugs

FYI: Unlocking a cell phone becomes illegal on 1/26/13

If you're considering it, maybe do it before then!
http://mashable.com/2013/01/23/unlocking-cellphones-illegal/

They can take their "laws" and shove'em. Might as well openly tell us they are doing as told to do so by the rich companies. At the end of the day people will still do it and most likely users on craigslist will end up making more money by unlocking them for users. =s

vanberge said:
If you're considering it, maybe do it before then!
http://mashable.com/2013/01/23/unlocking-cellphones-illegal/
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but that's only for flashing phones to diff. carriers not unlocking bootloaders or rooting phones no?

luisrod03 said:
but that's only for flashing phones to diff. carriers not unlocking bootloaders or rooting phones no?
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Correct. Rooting is still legal.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

(Note that unlocking is different from "jailbreaking," which opens the phone up for running additional software and remains legal for smartphones.)
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app

Making things like this illegal will just make people do it more. When the government steps in an says no you cannot do something to something you have purchased then that becomes a major issue. As far as I am concerned once you enter a contract the phone is yours to do with what you want. If you break that contract then there is an ETF. If you refuse to pay the ETF then the carrier must go after you VIA other channels. It would be the same as leasing a car and then not paying on it but while you owned it you repainted it. LOL
this is just dumb.

all thats going to result from this is that you can charge allot more when unlocking a phone on craigslist or something like that. **** i used to charge 20 bucks to unlock iphones before i got tired of handling icrap

remember laws are meant to be broken so who cares what they come up with... besides this goes back to the arguments many have had on this forum and other ones ...
if i bought the device with my money that i earned the device is mine and i can do whatever i want to do with it . if i put sprint phone on verizon and i pay my bill then im not stealing or anything like that yeah its not "right" or what they want us to do but $hit many of the things carriers do to us the consumers aint right either... as long as your doing this things for your personal device and not for stalking or in any way affect or hurt someone else who cares what the law says.....
oh and to those who follow the rules to the T and dont like my statement dont even bother replying ...

Ma$etas said:
remember laws are meant to be broken so who cares what they come up with... besides this goes back to the arguments many have had on this forum and other ones ...
if i bought the device with my money that i earned the device is mine and i can do whatever i want to do with it . if i put sprint phone on verizon and i pay my bill then im not stealing or anything like that yeah its not "right" or what they want us to do but $hit many of the things carriers do to us the consumers aint right either... as long as your doing this things for your personal device and not for stalking or in any way affect or hurt someone else who cares what the law says.....
oh and to those who follow the rules to the T and dont like my statement dont even bother replying ...
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I like your statement!!! I IGNORE rules to the T.:beer::beer::beer::screwy::sly:
Pp.
Transmitted from another galaxy with a Jellybean infused P-5113 full of Unicorn porn.

Lasted I checked I bought my phone with my money and I will do whatever I want to do with it. Government can go stick it up their butts.

Can you even use this phone on another carrier? If so, what are the adverse consequences of unlocking it now?

I dont think the reasoning behind the law is to stop individual users, but to be able to stop stores/phiscal locations that unlock phones. There's about a bazillion phone stores that you literally can walk in and have a phone unlocked and activated.

bobturismo said:
I dont think the reasoning behind the law is to stop individual users, but to be able to stop stores/phiscal locations that unlock phones. There's about a bazillion phone stores that you literally can walk in and have a phone unlocked and activated.
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If the carrier allows you to bring your own device the government needs to stay the hell out of it. This is just one more law to generate revenue that will be next to impossible to fully enforce, just like drug laws. There's more damn drugs imported to this country and on the streets than there was when the "war on drugs" began. Land of the free my ass, if the person is hurting no one other than themselves thats their choice. Just like you should be able to do whatever the fork you want with your device that you paid for and no one should be able to say boo about it. What's next? Gonna say I can't install linux on my PC cuz it shipped with windoze? Guess where you can stick your "laws"?
I like to break stuff!

Not only is the company making money off you when you sign the contract, they're making money when you buy a phone from them. They're pissed off because they're not getting any money for the device. Greed pure and simple. Another bit of proof that large companies have the government in their pockets. They tell the politicians to make laws that protect the company's interests. I say screw those companies and stop doing business with them. Let your money do the talking and voting.

The revolving door. Smh

Sorry but it makes sense to me... in some areas. I bought my E4GT used with a clean ESN and had it flashed to Cricket. $250 total investment (including flash and porting my existing number over), and I pay less than $60 a month. I don't get 4g but I'm always around WiFi anyway, so it's a sweet deal. But...
A few years back, my old BlackBerry on Sprint was stolen. The jackhole that took it most likely walked into a Cricket store and had it flashed and activated the same day without issue.
Also, who's to stop a contract Sprint customer from reporting a phone stolen, paying a deductible for a nice replacement, then selling the "stolen" phone on Craigslist (with a clearly advertised bad ESN for Cricket/Boost/Metro only) for a handsome profit? It only takes a few to spoil the bunch, but this is actually pretty common.
But if I buy a clean and clear phone outright LEGALLY, shouldn't I have the right to flash it to whatever carrier is compatible? There really should be some kind of middle ground, where only clean ESN phones can be legally flashed. I can see some good intentions here, but as usual, Uncle Sam goes about it in a really dumb way, bending everybody over while smiling and trying to convince us it's for the best
Trolling from my Cricket-flashed Galaxy S2 E4GT using Tapatalk 2

Im sure CDMA has long gone bee shafted. This is more as the shaft to GSM American users. Guess american businesses will lose more cash at the end of day with users either preferring to buy international unlocked phones or going the "breaking the law" route. Who is there to enforce it? And how.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Anyone able to offer a tutorial so I can unlock my phone today before it's illegal? No joke either I really want to do this before it's illegal.
It's a E4GT on Sprint wanting to flash to Metro in the Bay Area.

Zspy1985 said:
Anyone able to offer a tutorial so I can unlock my phone today before it's illegal? No joke either I really want to do this before it's illegal.
It's a E4GT on Sprint wanting to flash to Metro in the Bay Area.
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Assuming you got a sprint e4gt why even ask? This applies to GSM devices when they mean unlock, they mean unlock it network wise ATT/T-Mobile vice versa.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Yes. I believe ESN swapping is still considered illegal.
But you can still unlock your gsm phone legally, you just have to ask the carrier first. Just tell them you are going oversees
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

No more unlocking phone

What is this crap. http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...king-of-smartphones-becomes-illegal-saturday/

Not a fan of this

Heres my thoughts. Everybody will ***** and complain about this, but nobody will do anything about it. They will not tell us what we can and cant do with OUR own property. Sure, its now illegal to unlock our phones. The solution is simple, stop buying phones from all the carriers! Everybody stop buying phones and watch them all crumble without us. If everybody is not willing to stick together and make a stand....then dont ***** about the problem.
Sent from my SGH-I747M

While this still does suck you guys do realize this just means carrier unlocking right? Like unlocking so you can use an att phone in tmobile and vice versa. Plus it doesn't sound like it applies if you buy an unlocked phone or get the code from your carrier.
Sent via carrier pigeon...

Already a thread on this.... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2116859
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda premium

So much for America " the land of the free"

"Free," as in market and due rights. No one said anything about manufacturers property.
Am I the only person in America who never goes to the AT&T store besides when I initially buy my phone? If it breaks, I fix it. It there's cellular issues or internal problems I go online and send it in. People are too dependent on the actual carriers. This is why they enact such measures like this because they know a majority of Americans see no other choice but to be subjected to such laws. From home if I unlock my phone I guarantee AT&T can't detect it and since I never go in to the store, they can't deny insurance that I never buy or warranties I always break after flashing the my phones an hour after I receive them.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

Mr Patchy Patch said:
Heres my thoughts. Everybody will ***** and complain about this, but nobody will do anything about it. They will not tell us what we can and cant do with OUR own property. Sure, its now illegal to unlock our phones. The solution is simple, stop buying phones from all the carriers! Everybody stop buying phones and watch them all crumble without us. If everybody is not willing to stick together and make a stand....then dont ***** about the problem.
Sent from my SGH-I747M
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As soon as Google releases an LTE-compliant Nexus (or X Phone, or whatever else they may call it in the future), I will never purchase another carrier/OEM-branded phone again. In fact, I am seriously considering holding on to my S3 until such a phone comes out. LTE is becoming more and more ubiquitous, so it's only a matter of time until an unlocked, unbranded stock Android phone comes out that supports it. After all, the Nexus 4 has LTE capability (not an LTE antenna, though), and some crafty tinkerers managed to get it to connect to LTE.

There is a similar thread over on the TMo side (which is what I have), but I posted this in there.
It is NOT going to be illegal for you to unlock your phone. It WILL be if you do it without the permission of your carrier. That means that T-Mobile and AT&T will have to do it for you. For Verizon (and Maybe Sprint but not sure), there is an FCC requirement that any devices utilizing 700MHz for LTE cannot be locked.

Woody said:
There is a similar thread over on the TMo side (which is what I have), but I posted this in there.
It is NOT going to be illegal for you to unlock your phone. It WILL be if you do it without the permission of your carrier. That means that T-Mobile and AT&T will have to do it for you. For Verizon (and Maybe Sprint but not sure), there is an FCC requirement that any devices utilizing 700MHz for LTE cannot be locked.
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This fact alone doesn't make it any less BS. We, not the carriers, are the rightful owners of the phone. As such, the decision of what we want to do with our phone should be made by us, not the carriers. Why should we get permission from the carrier to unlock the phone? If, for instance, I buy a Chevrolet, should I be legally required to obtain permission from General Motors before using another manufacturer's parts?

Don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from and it is BS. But from what I have read on this, it is for phone that are purchased under contract (subsidies). In that case, most people do not own the phone. It is more of a lease until you pay it off at the end. Once the phone is paid off, then you can unlock at will.
As for your Chevy example, let me play devil's advocate. You buy a Chevy and while you don't specifically have to ask them for permission to use a Ford gear shifter, your warranty probably states that only factory supplied or authorized materials can be used, otherwise you void the warranty upon installation. You intall the Ford gear shifter and somehow that destroys your transmission and shreds the gears. Is this covered by GM? They will probably say no because you installed an after-market device that caused the problem.

Woody said:
Don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from and it is BS. But from what I have read on this, it is for phone that are purchased under contract (subsidies). In that case, most people do not own the phone. It is more of a lease until you pay it off at the end. Once the phone is paid off, then you can unlock at will.
As for your Chevy example, let me play devil's advocate. You buy a Chevy and while you don't specifically have to ask them for permission to use a Ford gear shifter, your warranty probably states that only factory supplied or authorized materials can be used, otherwise you void the warranty upon installation. You intall the Ford gear shifter and somehow that destroys your transmission and shreds the gears. Is this covered by GM? They will probably say no because you installed an after-market device that caused the problem.
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I just found the article linked below, which states that only phones purchased after January 26, 2013 will be affected by the new law. In other words, we are not affected by this law.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/25/tech/mobile/smartphone-unlocking-illegal/index.html?hpt=hp_t4
I'd be interested in looking into the logistics behind ownership of subsidized phones. I was always under the impression that a phone subsidy was an incentive to entice customers to sign a two year contract; after all, we are charged an early termination fee if we break the contract early, yet the device is ours to keep. Moreover, there's no formal lease agreement.
I completely agree with your analogy, but it's more applicable to rooting, rather than unlocking. From what I understand, rooting a phone automatically voids its warranty, regardless of manufacturer. Unlocking a phone, on the other hand, never voided the warranty. After all, no additional software is installed as part of the unlock process.

Woody said:
Don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from and it is BS. But from what I have read on this, it is for phone that are purchased under contract (subsidies). In that case, most people do not own the phone. It is more of a lease until you pay it off at the end. Once the phone is paid off, then you can unlock at will.
As for your Chevy example, let me play devil's advocate. You buy a Chevy and while you don't specifically have to ask them for permission to use a Ford gear shifter, your warranty probably states that only factory supplied or authorized materials can be used, otherwise you void the warranty upon installation. You intall the Ford gear shifter and somehow that destroys your transmission and shreds the gears. Is this covered by GM? They will probably say no because you installed an after-market device that caused the problem.
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I've heard even if you buy a phone outright from a provider the law is still upheld even though you bought it out of contract.
---------- Post added at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------
kgbkny said:
I just found the article linked below, which states that only phones purchased after January 26, 2013 will be affected by the new law. In other words, we are not affected by this law.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/25/tech/mobile/smartphone-unlocking-illegal/index.html?hpt=hp_t4
I'd be interested in looking into the logistics behind ownership of subsidized phones. I was always under the impression that a phone subsidy was an incentive to entice customers to sign a two year contract; after all, we are charged an early termination fee if we break the contract early, yet the device is ours to keep. Moreover, there's no formal lease agreement.
I completely agree with your analogy, but it's more applicable to rooting, rather than unlocking. From what I understand, rooting a phone automatically voids its warranty, regardless of manufacturer. Unlocking a phone, on the other hand, never voided the warranty. After all, no additional software is installed as part of the unlock process.
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I am also curious of they will void the warranty now if a phone is unlocked...
there is no way to relock it either so you'd be screwed

Well I feel like if you buy a phone out right and pay full retail or whatever not the 199.999 2yr contract price then you should be able to do what ever you want to it.
Its like nike saying ok you bought our air max's you can only wear nike socks with them don't let us catch you wear reebok or adidas socks.

dligon said:
Well I feel like if you buy a phone out right and pay full retail or whatever not the 199.999 2yr contract price then you should be able to do what ever you want to it.
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And you can. If you buy it outright from ATT then they can unlock it for you. You just can't take it down to Unlock City and have them do it.
Now if ATT refuses to unlock it, then there is just cause for you to file a non-compliance complaint against them.

Woody said:
And you can. If you buy it outright from ATT then they can unlock it for you. You just can't take it down to Unlock City and have them do it.
Now if ATT refuses to unlock it, then there is just cause for you to file a non-compliance complaint against them.
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do they actually have to by law if you buy it outright?

Probably not by law but it is your property (once paid off) and if you don't have a contract then there should be no ties that bind. Now if you are using THEIR service/bandwidth they can enforce certain criteria based on services rendered.
Anyone can file a complaint, it is just hard to determine where and to whom it would be most effective.
Edit: I think I might get a copy of this law in the morning and read it on the pooper. I have a legal background so I can decipher some legalese. Anyone got a link? Not to another news source, but the actual law.

Woody said:
Probably not by law but it is your property (once paid off) and if you don't have a contract then there should be no ties that bind. Now if you are using THEIR service/bandwidth they can enforce certain criteria based on services rendered.
Anyone can file a complaint, it is just hard to determine where and to whom it would be most effective.
Edit: I think I might get a copy of this law in the morning and read it on the pooper. I have a legal background so I can decipher some legalese. Anyone got a link? Not to another news source, but the actual law.
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I wonder if they could charge you a fee to unlock after you buying it outright

Woody said:
And you can. If you buy it outright from ATT then they can unlock it for you. You just can't take it down to Unlock City and have them do it.
Now if ATT refuses to unlock it, then there is just cause for you to file a non-compliance complaint against them.
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Well att, tmo, probably would honor unlocking the phones. Verizon you may have trouble with as always

Ill never buy a carrier branded phone again

On returning the device and getting (at least some of) your restocking fee waived

As part of my pledge not to buy devices that aren't unlockable, I returned my phone today. Even though I was one of the lucky ones who managed to unlock it, on principle, I won't pay for devices that I can't take ownership of the software on. I did get half of my restocking fee waived; here's how I did it.
First off, before you even begin trying to convince someone else that you're right, you have to convince yourself. After all, if you don't think you're right, how do you expect anyone else to take your point of view? Luckily, if you choose to return this device because it isn't what was advertised, you are right. The reason why I expect to be able to return the phone is that it simply isn't the same device that I bought. When I bought the device, on day 1, it was an HTC One -- like every other HTC One, it was factory-unlockable. Any device that anybody calls an HTC One, until then, was an unlockable phone. And, indeed, on day 1, it was -- up until Verizon removed the feature that I purchased on, around 24 hours later.
So, just like it would be if you bought an HTC One, and instead it was made out of cheap polycarbonate (sorry, SGS4 fanboys!) instead of aluminum, you bought something that was different than you were expecting to buy. (When someone sells you something that's not what you got in a way that affects its value or utility, that means that it's "materially different"; that is to say, it's different in a way that caused you to do something different than you otherwise would have.) In that case, you're right to return the device, and obviously you shouldn't pay fees to someone who sold you something materially different than what you thought you were buying.
Now that you're convinced that you shouldn't pay a restocking fee, how do you do it?
I walked into a Verizon Wireless store (in my case, the one on San Tomas Expy., in Santa Clara, CA), and clearly told the man at the door -- the manager -- what my problem is, and what I'd like. I told him that I'd like to return the device, and why I felt that I should be refunded, without going into much detail. He agreed, and said that I'd have to call customer service to have the fee waived and applied as a credit, but that he'd be happy to help in any way he could. He suggested that I call *611 first to make sure that I'd get it waived, and then he'd process it; so, I did.
It got somewhat more hairy there. The person who initially answered my call to *611 said that she wouldn't be able to do anything, and under no circumstances would she be able to refund my restocking fee. I expected this, and you should too: the first-level drones can't do anything for you (but you should be polite to them anyway). She offered to transfer me to a "customer satisfaction representative", which I happily accepted.
We went back and forth a few times. One of the things that they will tell you is that once you return the phone, they can't sell it as new anymore; you can respond by saying that you understand that it doesn't have as much value to them, but that it simply doesn't work for your purposes, and that they have an obligation to refund you for something that's materially different from what they advertised. They may have to speak to the store manager; that's okay, let them. Be patient and polite, but firm.
They may begin offering compromises. At this point, it's up to you. For instance, I was offered a $10 credit; I decided that wasn't good enough. You can remind the person on the phone of how long you've been a customer, if you have that sort of status -- again, be polite, but firm. I was eventually offered a refund of half of the restocking fee, which I took (applied as a credit to my account).
But, if that's not good enough for you, you don't have to take it. Depending on how much you value your time, you have other opportunities. You can talk to your credit card issuer; again, be patient and polite. (If you're talking to an issuer, don't use the word "unlock", since they can very easily confuse it with a SIM unlock. Be perfectly clear -- refer to the feature as "the HTCDev feature", or "custom software support".) They may be willing to refund your money, and then they'll work it out with Verizon Wireless later.
If you have *way* too much free time, you could even use small claims court. Again, remember that phrase, "materially different" -- it is! You don't need a lawyer to go to small claims court (and, indeed, in many small claims courts, lawyers aren't allowed!).
tl;dr: Yes, it's possible to return your One with either no restocking fee or a reduced restocking fee. You shouldn't settle for a phone that you don't control -- as the EFF says, 'you own it, you pwn it'. If it bothers you, you should put your money where your mouth is, and return it -- then, but a phone that's unlockable.

joshua_ said:
As part of my pledge not to buy devices that aren't unlockable, I returned my phone today. Even though I was one of the lucky ones who managed to unlock it, on principle, I won't pay for devices that I can't take ownership of the software on. I did get half of my restocking fee waived; here's how I did it.
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Wait, are you saying that you were able to return your bootloader unlocked/tampered phone? How did you get them to do that? I'm only asking because I am in the exact same situation as you and potentially thinking about getting the Moto X coming out this week. *flamesuit for that phone* lol

They let you unlock it via the HTC site, for a day at least. I feel that would still allow you to return it. The warranty is voided but there is nothing that stated you cannot return it. I'd think based on that you'd have a great argument too return it.
sent from my blue police box flying through time.....

Syn Ack said:
Wait, are you saying that you were able to return your bootloader unlocked/tampered phone? How did you get them to do that? I'm only asking because I am in the exact same situation as you and potentially thinking about getting the Moto X coming out this week. *flamesuit for that phone* lol
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They don't check.
I exchanged my unlocked One for another and then unlocked that one as well.

Well you weren't really "duped" per say. Its not like Verizon's like "Hey come check out the HTC One!!! Its boot loader unlocked!!!"
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

karn101 said:
They don't check.
I exchanged my unlocked One for another and then unlocked that one as well.
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So you managed to get and unlock two phones in less than the 24 hours we had to unlock the phone?
Sent from my locked Verizon HTC One

crazyg0od33 said:
So you managed to get and unlock two phones in less than the 24 hours we had to unlock the phone?
Sent from my locked Verizon HTC One
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Yes. First one had a dead pixel. Jumped on the train and went through the rain to the store because I knew HTCDEV would be locked down. Exhanged it, double and triple checked the new one. Ran home and unlocked it again.

karn101 said:
Yes. First one had a dead pixel. Jumped on the train and went through the rain to the store because I knew HTCDEV would be locked down. Exhanged it, double and triple checked the new one. Ran home and unlocked it again.
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wow thats fast AND lucky haha

Syn Ack said:
Wait, are you saying that you were able to return your bootloader unlocked/tampered phone? How did you get them to do that? I'm only asking because I am in the exact same situation as you and potentially thinking about getting the Moto X coming out this week. *flamesuit for that phone* lol
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All I did was put a stock recovery on it, put it in the box, and bring it back to the store. (I sure didn't relock it first, since it would still say tampered, and then if they rejected it, I'd have a phone that both said "tampered" *and* was locked. ****ty situation!)
Usually I would feel bad about bringing a phone back to the store that said "tampered", or otherwise that I had modified in such a way that they couldn't do their normal reconditioning process on it. In this case, they screwed me; it's on them.
antp121 said:
Well you weren't really "duped" per say. Its not like Verizon's like "Hey come check out the HTC One!!! Its boot loader unlocked!!!"
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No, but they did say "Come check out the HTC One" -- not, "the HTC One Minus", or "the HTC One, Almost", or "the HTC One-like". Different people look for different features; again, think about what it would be if the Verizon HTC One was made out of polycarb, instead of aluminum. I don't care, as long as the fit and finish is still as good, but I can imagine that someone out there would -- and it wouldn't be an HTC One.
You make a good point that I should clarify, though. They don't have to explicitly advertise something -- the important bit is what a reasonable person would be lead to believe.

joshua_ said:
All I did was put a stock recovery on it, put it in the box, and bring it back to the store. (I sure didn't relock it first, since it would still say tampered, and then if they rejected it, I'd have a phone that both said "tampered" *and* was locked. ****ty situation!)
Usually I would feel bad about bringing a phone back to the store that said "tampered", or otherwise that I had modified in such a way that they couldn't do their normal reconditioning process on it. In this case, they screwed me; it's on them.
No, but they did say "Come check out the HTC One" -- not, "the HTC One Minus", or "the HTC One, Almost", or "the HTC One-like". Different people look for different features; again, think about what it would be if the Verizon HTC One was made out of polycarb, instead of aluminum. I don't care, as long as the fit and finish is still as good, but I can imagine that someone out there would -- and it wouldn't be an HTC One.
You make a good point that I should clarify, though. They don't have to explicitly advertise something -- the important bit is what a reasonable person would be lead to believe.
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Yes but an unlocked bootloader is not a feature and is definitely not promised. Its like someone saying that vzw One is not the same because of the logos on the back. Tbh I don't think you should've gotten a discounted restocking fee because of the bootloader. I think the fee is bs to begin with but this does not count as legitimate reason. You say a reasonable person would be lead to believe but that's basically assuming and making inferences with data going against your claims. Have any Verizon devices been unlockable in the past? Very few with less and less with the passing time. Not trying to flame you I just don't like people complaining about buying a locked device with expectations higher than they should be lol
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

antp121 said:
Yes but an unlocked bootloader is not a feature and is definitely not promised. Its like someone saying that vzw One is not the same because of the logos on the back. Tbh I don't think you should've gotten a discounted restocking fee because of the bootloader. I think the fee is bs to begin with but this does not count as legitimate reason. You say a reasonable person would be lead to believe but that's basically assuming and making inferences with data going against your claims. Have any Verizon devices been unlockable in the past? Very few with less and less with the passing time. Not trying to flame you I just don't like people complaining about buying a locked device with expectations higher than they should be lol
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Good points.
I'd argue that it *is* a real feature -- it's something that you care about, and that I care about, and that most of us care about, to be sure! Being able to control and verify the software running on my device is very valuable to me.
This is not just a hypothetical -- I *did* buy the device because when I bought it, it was unlockable. I checked XDA, and it was unlockable on HTCDev; there exist other Verizon devices (like my Thunderbolt!) that are unlockable on HTCDev, and my current phone -- the Galaxy Nexus -- is also an unlockable device. So it's not unheardof to have an unlockable Verizon phone, though I will grant you that it is getting more rare with time.
I don't think I would have complained if it were not unlockable on day 1. Everybody checks before they buy; I think your argument was that "if you don't check, you're not a reasonable person" -- and that sure is true. What idiot *doesn't* go on XDA first before they buy a phone? The thing that got me is that I bought it with the ultimately reasonable expectation that it'd stay an unlockable device. Even though my device was unlocked, an unlocked device without a community is basically as good as a locked device.
So you're totally right. If I had bought a locked device, and expected it to be unlockable, then I'd be an idiot. But for those of you who got screwed on day 1 -- or bought the device with the reasonable expectation that it'd be unlockable, and then it wasn't -- you probably have a real case.

Whistle whistle whistle...

joshua_ said:
Good points.
I'd argue that it *is* a real feature -- it's something that you care about, and that I care about, and that most of us care about, to be sure! Being able to control and verify the software running on my device is very valuable to me.
This is not just a hypothetical -- I *did* buy the device because when I bought it, it was unlockable. I checked XDA, and it was unlockable on HTCDev; there exist other Verizon devices (like my Thunderbolt!) that are unlockable on HTCDev, and my current phone -- the Galaxy Nexus -- is also an unlockable device. So it's not unheardof to have an unlockable Verizon phone, though I will grant you that it is getting more rare with time.
I don't think I would have complained if it were not unlockable on day 1. Everybody checks before they buy; I think your argument was that "if you don't check, you're not a reasonable person" -- and that sure is true. What idiot *doesn't* go on XDA first before they buy a phone? The thing that got me is that I bought it with the ultimately reasonable expectation that it'd stay an unlockable device. Even though my device was unlocked, an unlocked device without a community is basically as good as a locked device.
So you're totally right. If I had bought a locked device, and expected it to be unlockable, then I'd be an idiot. But for those of you who got screwed on day 1 -- or bought the device with the reasonable expectation that it'd be unlockable, and then it wasn't -- you probably have a real case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree almost 100% however, I still wouldn't consider an unlockable bootloader as a "feature". It was pretty dumb vzw locking it up day 1, but once again, that happened with the Rezound, inc 4g lte and the Droid DNA iirc. They all were unlockable for a short amount of time before Verizon pulled the plug. Its just a matter of time before either:
A) HTC finds it in their hearts to reopen htcdev for vzw skus (highly unlikey)
B) some genius finds an exploit.
The unlocking of the bootloader is very important to me but I've learned to have VERY low expectations with anything verizon gets their hands on haha
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

antp121 said:
I agree almost 100% however, I still wouldn't consider an unlockable bootloader as a "feature". It was pretty dumb vzw locking it up day 1, but once again, that happened with the Rezound, inc 4g lte and the Droid DNA iirc. They all were unlockable for a short amount of time before Verizon pulled the plug. Its just a matter of time before either:
A) HTC finds it in their hearts to reopen htcdev for vzw skus (highly unlikey)
B) some genius finds an exploit.
The unlocking of the bootloader is very important to me but I've learned to have VERY low expectations with anything verizon gets their hands on haha
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
#blameant

At what point did they promise "you'd own the software" or an unlocked bootloader... I know I'm going to get a lot of **** for this but seriously get off your high-horse and stop trying to manipulate the system. When you get screwed over that's one thing. Nowhere does it say that you can root, rom, or unlock a device. It's assumed risk...
---------- Post added at 05:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 AM ----------
joshua_ said:
Good points.
I'd argue that it *is* a real feature -- it's something that you care about, and that I care about, and that most of us care about, to be sure! Being able to control and verify the software running on my device is very valuable to me.
This is not just a hypothetical -- I *did* buy the device because when I bought it, it was unlockable. I checked XDA, and it was unlockable on HTCDev; there exist other Verizon devices (like my Thunderbolt!) that are unlockable on HTCDev, and my current phone -- the Galaxy Nexus -- is also an unlockable device. So it's not unheardof to have an unlockable Verizon phone, though I will grant you that it is getting more rare with time.
I don't think I would have complained if it were not unlockable on day 1. Everybody checks before they buy; I think your argument was that "if you don't check, you're not a reasonable person" -- and that sure is true. What idiot *doesn't* go on XDA first before they buy a phone? The thing that got me is that I bought it with the ultimately reasonable expectation that it'd stay an unlockable device. Even though my device was unlocked, an unlocked device without a community is basically as good as a locked device.
So you're totally right. If I had bought a locked device, and expected it to be unlockable, then I'd be an idiot. But for those of you who got screwed on day 1 -- or bought the device with the reasonable expectation that it'd be unlockable, and then it wasn't -- you probably have a real case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so based on you "PERSONAL' preferences you are mad cause they didn't meet them. You knew there was a risk of this... If not you seriously need to rethink what to expect. Saying that I could argue that fact that I wish my phone could kill people cause it's important to me...
---------- Post added at 05:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 AM ----------
antp121 said:
I agree almost 100% however, I still wouldn't consider an unlockable bootloader as a "feature". It was pretty dumb vzw locking it up day 1, but once again, that happened with the Rezound, inc 4g lte and the Droid DNA iirc. They all were unlockable for a short amount of time before Verizon pulled the plug. Its just a matter of time before either:
A) HTC finds it in their hearts to reopen htcdev for vzw skus (highly unlikey)
B) some genius finds an exploit.
The unlocking of the bootloader is very important to me but I've learned to have VERY low expectations with anything verizon gets their hands on haha
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post right here is 100% accurate. And obviously someone who understands the truth behind this.

A "reasonable" person knows that Verizon loves to lock their boot loaders up tight.
You got lucky to get the fee waived or partially waived. Nobody should expect to get theirs waived for this reason.
I'm keeping my One. I have faith in our devs and know that I'll soon be able to unlock.
Sent from my HTC One.

Bottom line is that in retail you can get what you want if you are willing to be their fly in the ointment (or PITA). As illustrated by the OP, you can be a nuisance, even without being rude, and get your way.
I personally would pay the restocking fee instead of dealing with the hastle of haggling over it. Not worth my time and stress. But hats off to those that can stick to their guns and get a refund. I just hope I'm not behind you in line cause we'll be here forever
Sent using xda app-developers app

Wow, you got duped. I've never paid restocking. And they've never had to get permission from corporate to do it. The manager on site can waive your restocking fee and if they feel they will lose business if they don't waive it, they will.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4

I wish Google would put the screws to large scale mobile carriers

Title sums rant.
Android is Google's operating system, and its not like the majority of developers here are interested in what they can change on their iOS devices.
When people realize the vast improvement their device can take without the added congestion of what mobile networks think you want/are contractually obligated to bloat YOUR phone/device with, they take a different stance on Android completely (at least, I do), and will not move to another operating system UNLESS this hogwash of carrier vs. customer continues.
We purchase the phone, we OWN the phone, as long as we're not doing anything illegal, such as stealing or tampering with Verizon's physical property, WE should be able to customize the software however we want. We're not BUYING the 'software' when we're buying a phone, I'm not choosing to purchase the entire Android experience in its entirety, with absolutely no modified software guaranteed, I'm not choosing to buy the integrated "spy" software or asking for my mobile service provider to collect all this 'anonymous' data so that they can just throw me advertisements or hope I'll ever be interested in paying $2.99 a month for visual voice mail. When you buy a desktop computer, you have the option of removing all of the software components and installing your own on your physical hardware.
Isn't what Verizon is doing technically monopolizing the mobile software industry by forcing a device owner to use specific software that they will not remove? Why not just offer a 'developer edition' line right alongside of the stock phone for a premium? There are already several devices on their network that have exploits and custom software installed on them, so any inclination that their 'security' is at risk, and therefore they forbid unlocked bootloaders is a flat lie, OR wouldn't they be compelled to suspend or terminate service to all those accounts? Why do they get the option to decide which users are allowed to 'break the law' or 'terms of contract?'
I think the only way this issue can ever get resolved is if the software vendor in Google puts its foot into it and demands all carriers allow for an unlocked bootloader. Maybe we all collectively as Google customers should voice our concerns in that direction. Anyone else agree?

+1
Sent from my phone using an app

+2
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk 4

+3
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using xda app-developers app

True.
HTC needs Verizon but Verizon needs Android.
Google should start saying this is an open platform leave it alone. With 80% android market share Verizon would have to conform.

I agree, but I think people grossly overestimate the power of this community. If every single one of us stopped buying phones to try and force Google's hand, that would be a loss of like... less than a percent to Google and the manufacturers. The fact is that the very vast majority does not care about unlocked boot loaders and roms and root and s-off. So... I think we will be dealing with these issues indefinitely.
Sent from my HTC One.

Google is still the company that needs to lay down the law. They make money off of root apps and apps developed on rooted phones, they should be upset that Verizon impliments all these restrictions.

The only thing I disagree with is the term own. Unless you buy it outright you lease it until your contract is up.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using xda app-developers app

cstrife999 said:
The only thing I disagree with is the term own. Unless you buy it outright you lease it until your contract is up.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I had the option of paying $199.99 at a subsidized rate but was forced to have my phone locked down or could pay full price for an unlocked version, I'd be paying full price almost every time, with that infrequent time being that the phone already had an exploit.

rmaccamr said:
If I had the option of paying $199.99 at a subsidized rate but was forced to have my phone locked down or could pay full price for an unlocked version, I'd be paying full price almost every time, with that infrequent time being that the phone already had an exploit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea. Sales of the gs4 and one gpe editions were pretty decent based on this principal. Same for the nexus 4 which just dropped the 8gb model to 200... Off contract...
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using xda app-developers app

I hear ya, I dont understand it either, and the fact that HTC made the phone but has to listen to Verizon in removing the ability to unlock the bootloader? People have already unlocked the phone and its obvious that the phone still can be unlocked but Verizon is allowed to tell HTC what to do with their phone that is also on every other carrier and can be unlocked?
Its a bunch of bull and I wish I could leave Verizon but they unfortunately have the best coverage for me and I get the biggest discount from my job, so I would lose even more if I switched. At least the One is a fantastic phone even with it not being rooted and I cant say that too much about many other phones

+1

lets see what will do?

+1
Sent from my SCH-I605 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

+1
Sent from my One using xda app-developers app

Well said, but sadly it is true that both of them will be making money with or without us. The majority of smartphone users barely scratch the surface of what their phones are capable of, even before rooting or jailbreaking. A good amount of people I work with don't even have phones linked to google accounts. Just phone calls and aol mail for them. And they are rocking $300 smartphones with data packages and all.

cstrife999 said:
The only thing I disagree with is the term own. Unless you buy it outright you lease it until your contract is up.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^ This.

cstrife999 said:
The only thing I disagree with is the term own. Unless you buy it outright you lease it until your contract is up.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You aren't leasing a phone. You are getting a subsidized price on the equipment by agreeing to stay with the company for terms of the contact. You own it. You aren't leasing it. You are not obligated to stay with them. You pay a term fee if you decide to leave to make up for the subsidy.
Sent from my HTCOneVZW using Tapatalk

That's the double-edges sword of open software like Android. The exact same rights that allow us to modify Android to be the way we want it gives carriers the ability to load up their bloatware and lock it down. I think it would be a bad idea for Google to mandate anything simply because it goes against the entire concept of Android being so open. Also it would motivate carriers to find alternatives. As huge as it is in the mobile market, the truth is most people who bought their Android phones bought them because they looked good and had neat features. If those features happen to have the name "Android", "Windows", "Ubuntu", or anything else attached to them makes no difference whatsoever.
If we want this to change we need to directly petition Verizon to stop locking things down. If they don't change their ways we need to be willing to leave them for another carrier and tell them why we're leaving on our way out the door. The reality though - as has been mentioned already - is that we're a very small part of Verizon's user base and don't really have much of a voice. Verizon currently has about 120,000,000 subscribers (Thanks for the correction josh995) in the U.S. (source) The entirety of the XDA Developers user base is 5,426,190, which obviously isn't all Verizon subscribers. We have to count on them taking the concerns of the enthusiasts into account more than casual users. Sure, we're the guys and gals that are more likely to brick our phones and make shady warranty claims, but we're also the guys and gals that buy phones at full price because we want the latest and greatest. We're also the ones that others come to for advice on phones and carriers.
tl;dr - Google shouldn't do anything about this, we need to make ourselves heard by the carriers directly.

I couldn't agree more. I still have my Verizon Galaxy nexus and will always cherish it. Its ridiculous how difficult unlocking the bootloader has become on Verizon devices. If I didn't have my grandfather data plan I'd be with a different carrier yesterday
Sent from my One using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Unlocking bootloader! blacklisted/lost/not paid from Sprint/T-Mobile

Hello everyone, let's share information and experience here to find a way to unlock the bootloader on these phones

yashkoff said:
Hello everyone, let's share information and experience here to find a way to unlock the bootloader on these phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure your going to get people to help you with a potentially stolen phone. Not saying or implying you did steal it
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

jmtjr278 said:
I'm not sure your going to get people to help you with a potentially stolen phone. Not saying or implying you did steal it
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are mistaken, almost all phones that are considered stolen or lost were actually simply not paid. The first owner uses the phone for several months, and then, in order not to pay, he begins to trick ... He writes a statement that his phone was stolen, but in fact he is selling his phone to buy used phones. Further, the seller of used phones sells these phones via the Internet site (without describing what problems he has). And what’s the result? A poor guy from Africa bought himself such a phone and got into a bad situation, he cannot use it, although he paid money for it. I just want to find help for such people with their bad phones.

There are basically two choices.
1) Get the service provider to unlock the phone. If it has been blacklisted, they are never going to unlock it. Better move on to option 2.....
2) Use some sort of third party SIM card "unlocking" service. These are notoriously risky. Some may work, but many do not. Personally I cannot give any recommendations because I have never used a service like that.

sic0048 said:
There are basically two choices.
1) Get the service provider to unlock the phone. If it has been blacklisted, they are never going to unlock it. Better move on to option 2.....
2) Use some sort of third party SIM card "unlocking" service. These are notoriously risky. Some may work, but many do not. Personally I cannot give any recommendations because I have never used a service like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is something most people do not know about a black listed phone.. If the original owner say, did not fully pay for it, then sold it anyway.. The new owner has to pay all fees including late fees, past due monthly bills in order to have the phone removed from the black list.. How do I know? Because it happened to me once.

doubledragon5 said:
Here is something most people do not know about a black listed phone.. If the original owner say, did not fully pay for it, then sold it anyway.. The new owner has to pay all fees including late fees, past due monthly bills in order to have the phone removed from the black list.. How do I know? Because it happened to me once.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
flashing in edl mode, just how?