44con - Windows Phone 7 - Windows Phone 7 General

If you guys are interested in hacking Windows Phone 7, you may be interested in a security conference called #44con that will be running in September.
There is going to be an awesome talk by Alex Plaskett of MWR on Windows Phone 7 security.
In the interests of full disclosure, I work with Alex at MWR and MWR are also sponsoring the event; however even if I didn't and we weren't - I'd still be shouting about it and wouldn't miss it!
Check it out - the technical track is pretty awesome.
Just google 44con

Hacking as in running homebrew XNA/Silverlight, homebrew native COM DLLs, or homebrew native executables?

Windows Pwn 7 OEM - Owned Every Mobile?
This is the synopsis of the talk:
Windows Pwn 7 OEM - Owned Every Mobile?
Thinking about buying a Windows Phone 7 Phone? You need to see this. The talk will aim to provide an introduction into the Windows Phone 7 (WP7) security model to allow security professionals and application developers understand the unique platform security features offered. Currently very little public information is available about Windows Phone 7 OS security preventing adequate determination of the risk exposed by WP7 devices.
The ever increasing challenges and stages of exploitation an attacker has to overcome to achieve full compromise will be discussed. The talk will outline the implementation of these security features and will demonstrate weaknesses and vulnerabilities an attacker could use to bypass the multiple levels of platform security.
A number of OEM manufacturer weaknesses, "features?" will be discussed and a demonstration of how these "features" can be abused in conjunction with conventional exploits to achieve full compromise of the phone will be performed. The talk will demonstrate how OEM phone manufacturers can weaken the security posture of an otherwise strong granular security model and also demonstrate how targeted attacks can be made which leverage this OEM .functionality. to compromise sensitive information.
Biography
Alex is a security consultant at MWR InfoSecurity and has a passion for bug hunting and exploit Development. Alex has previously identified a number of serious vulnerabilities in IBM software (Lotus Domino, WebSphere MQ) and is currently interested in embedded systems security.

nmonkee said:
A number of OEM manufacturer weaknesses
<skipped>
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This guy, Alex, seems like already read all XDA WP7 hack forums

nmonkee said:
This is the synopsis of the talk:Biography
...
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Sounds juicy. I am will be anticipating the talk.

Hm just found out about Alex talks at 44con and Bluehat 2011. Any chance that his slides could be published? Or was anyone of you there and could summarize it a little bit? I am curious to know if he mentioned something brand new or if its something known to the OEM DLL files everybody is using thanks to the XDA forum

If anyone is interested in the slides:
http://labs.mwrinfosecurity.com/files/Publications/mwri_wp7-bluehat-technical_2011-11-08.pdf
Here are 2 vulns:
http://labs.mwrinfosecurity.com/advisories/samsung_omnia_directory_traversal/
http://labs.mwrinfosecurity.com/advisories/htc_kernel_read_write_vulnerability/
Maybe it's interesting for someone..

Thx, I've seen the slides a few days ago. Pretty deep stuff. However, he still needed to combine several exploits to get TCB access. I guess thats somewhat the same thing Heathcliff tried for his Root Tools Further research in OEM vulnerabilities could prove interesting, especially after the recent HTC update that was combined with the Mango Update 7720.

Related

backwords compatible?

Hey Guys,
just starting a new threat to look for info and ideas about the next subject:
I am going to get a new phone in the next few months. Probable looking for an HTC with WP7.
I dont know if I will like it and I am wondering if these new phones could be flashed back to WM6.5.
Of course I would be willing to help with all kinds of WP7 ideas an tests, even though I am not a developper myself.
So, the statement for the new threat:
--Would it be possible/worhty to make 6.5 roms for WP7 hardware?--
Possible, sure. Likely, no. WM6.5 is, for most intents and purposes, dead. Highly unlikely that anyone puts in the time and effort needed to hack the bootloader, etc of specific devices in order to backport the old OS.
Sander101077 said:
Hey Guys,
just starting a new threat to look for info and ideas about the next subject:
I am going to get a new phone in the next few months. Probable looking for an HTC with WP7.
I dont know if I will like it and I am wondering if these new phones could be flashed back to WM6.5.
Of course I would be willing to help with all kinds of WP7 ideas an tests, even though I am not a developper myself.
So, the statement for the new threat:
--Would it be possible/worhty to make 6.5 roms for WP7 hardware?--
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think u can buy a 6.5phone now
If you're looking for backwards compatibility Windows Embedded Handheld 7 (based on WM6.x) is scheduled for the second half of 2011.
I've been following the conversations backstage and I don't think WM6.5 is dead at all. WP7 has a lot of shortcomings when it comes to business use. No copy/paste, less customization, etc. In fact, it is a dumb smartphone which is more geared for the iphone type consumer...those who would gladly trade endless customization and features for simplicity. Those who look at phones as fashion accessories and toys rather than something designed to get work done more efficiently. Sadly, the market for this is much much larger than the market for serious smart devices. Steve Jobs figured this out which is why the iphone is such a big hit, but most of us here have been looking at these folks going "wow, you can copy/paste now? Neat. I've been doing that for years!".
I had a list at one point which detailed all the things that WP7 does NOT do that 6.5 does and I can tell you that enterprise customers will not accept WP7 as a replacement to WM6.x. Many large companies out here are Microsoft partners with exchange servers, sharepoint, Office suitefor all employees and as a matter of IT support, they only support Windows Mobile so that their IT departments only have to manage MS products. If hey were to cut off SM6.x entirely while rolling out WP7, purchasing departments across the country would make a huge shift to blackberry. I'm certain that this is why RIM decided to go forward with plans for a new OS and why HP purchased Palm with their WebOS. They are both counting on MS doing this.
However, through conversations with various insiders at MS, it appears these fears are unfounded. Windows 6.5 is expected to continue being developed even into next year with possible future upgrades to the OS itself. WP7 will not support skins such as the HTC Sense interface, and because of the business users with business devices - particularly full qwerty devices like the Treo, Glisten, etc - they do expect to continue development.
I have heard rumors that there is actually a long development cycle planned for WM which involves the next iteration of Windows Mobile which will be renamed Windows 7 Professional. This would be in line with MS and their way of doing things and matches up nicely with Windows 7 and Windows Phone 7. I don't know how much of this part is true and how much is just rumors floating around backstage, but it makes a lot of sense.
kfreels said:
I've been following the conversations backstage and I don't think WM6.5 is dead at all.
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..not dead....dying. The next iteration of 'WM' is BASED on 6.5.x and then in 2011 a version (based on WP7) with XNA and silverlight support is due.
Here's some info on the next 'WM' release....~note...this is not a 'WP' release so doesn't fall under the 'Windows Phone' umbrella, it's a new version of Windows Mobile - Embedded and it;s backwards compatible.
http://www.fiercemobilecontent.com/press-releases/microsoft-outlines-commitment-future-enterprise-handheld-devices
..also mentioned here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=6917106&posted=1#post6917106
Moving to General .
I will delete this post with in a week or two, so it doesn't clutter.
kfreels said:
WP7 has a lot of shortcomings when it comes to business use. No copy/paste.
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God, I'm so tired of hearing this. There will be copy&paste, they said it often enough...
I had a list at one point which detailed all the things that WP7 does NOT do that 6.5 does and I can tell you that enterprise customers will not accept WP7 as a replacement to WM6.x. Many large companies out here are Microsoft partners with exchange servers, sharepoint, Office suitefor all employees and as a matter of IT support, they only support Windows Mobile so that their IT departments only have to manage MS products.
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All the products you name (Office, Sharepoint, Exchange) are natively supported by WP7. Have you seen ANY WP7 demo video lately?

[Q] NoDo and the Next 'Chevron'

So now that the HTC Arrive has come out (with NoDo installed on it), how long till someone gets one an takes a crack at 'jailbreaking' it like ChevronWP7 did before?
My apologies to ~~Tito~~ for misplacing my thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=12252216#post12252216).
Will be more careful in the future.
you do realize that the release isn't even a week old right? matter of fact make that 3-days. On top of that, the official release for NoDo hasn't even been release.
An old article but I thought it was relivant.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/new-windows-phone-7-jailbreak-in-the-pipeline/11047
Soon we will have another tool to jailbreak our WP7s.. This is suppose to be much more reliable becasue it does not allow Microsoft to re lock the device.
"The tool also allows users to manage their applications, explore devices, create device backups, add ring-tones and sync favorites."
I cant wait to download!!!!
Schaps told us on his page that he will NOT include his jailbreak tool...
Because I was bored getting hundreds of emails from people asking me to send them WP Device Manager so they can continue to use pirated applications, and because there will be a short term solution for homebrews, I decided not to include my jailbreak tool. I respect other developers and I don’t want to be responsible for piracy, I’ve been contacted by Brandon Watson from Microsoft and I wish to be involved in the official homebrew support on Windows Phone.
found on touchxperience.com
Well, the less piracy a OS has the more developers will be inclined to develop for it. If you were going to sell your software and new that on one platform it was very difficult to pirate your software, you would be more inclined to support that platform.
that's not necessarily true, there are other factors beside piracy that a developer considers such as # of users, incentive, etc, in fact i have never heard a dev quote piracy as a concern
but anyway, unlock does not have to mean piracy, it's just business and a way of overprotection to keep the os tight and closed - in fact with chevron we've seen more innovations from our own community than from microsoft, one of the biggest being the instant multitasking
cyclical said:
Well, the less piracy a OS has the more developers will be inclined to develop for it. If you were going to sell your software and new that on one platform it was very difficult to pirate your software, you would be more inclined to support that platform.
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that is just wrong windows as an OS has got to have more software combined then Linux and Apple, also I havent even taken into account the fact that the IPHONE is basically a pirating device, the term "jail break" originally comes from the iphone so I dont know what you are smoking when you say piracy would reduce the amount of developers on a platform.
you need to stop drinking that developer kool-aid my friend
Julien's tool has web server code in it, so it's reasonable to assume he was going to attempt a similar trick that we employed in Chevron. (i.e. No, he likely doesn't have anything that will work either.)

Looking for help to hack WP7; as an alternative to ChevronWP7

I'm looking for people who are experienced phone hackers to start a new community project; as an alternative to ChevronWP7, which no longer works on the 'NoDo' update, and it seems that the ChevronWP7 team was either sold out, or encountered legal trouble. The need for a new hacking team is clearly visible. We need an alternative to ChevronWP7! Anyone with me?
IDWMaster said:
I'm looking for people who are experienced phone hackers to start a new community project; as an alternative to ChevronWP7, which no longer works on the 'NoDo' update, and it seems that the ChevronWP7 team was either sold out, or encountered legal trouble. The need for a new hacking team is clearly visible. We need an alternative to ChevronWP7! Anyone with me?
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while the intent of the posting is good, in general the argument is lol
chevron was not bought out and as far as legal trouble goes, none of that. In fact, microsoft has taken a very positive stance on development and hacking - even going as far as speaking on ppcgeeks about it
domineus said:
while the intent of the posting is good, in general the argument is lol
chevron was not bought out and as far as legal trouble goes, none of that. In fact, microsoft has taken a very positive stance on development and hacking - even going as far as speaking on ppcgeeks about it
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True, but looking at this problem from a business stance; why would Microsoft want to allow homebrew development on their platform, and how do we know that they will honor their word? There hasn't been a single post from the ChevronWP7 team since January, and Microsoft hasn't mentioned a word about it since then either. How can we be sure that Microsoft hasn't used a "legal muscle", and settled the legal matters behind the scenes, while keeping it secret to the public?
IDWMaster said:
True, but looking at this problem from a business stance; why would Microsoft want to allow homebrew development on their platform, and how do we know that they will honor their word? There hasn't been a single post from the ChevronWP7 team since January, and Microsoft hasn't mentioned a word about it since then either. How can we be sure that Microsoft hasn't used a "legal muscle", and settled the legal matters behind the scenes, while keeping it secret to the public?
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as far as group chevron is still working
and I still talk to chris and rafael (less of him) on twitter frequently. Chevron team is not hard to find and generally pretty talkative and helpful. Microsoft seems to understand the power that homebrew does have on development and while we don't know specifically the plans of it, I think by not taking an apple, google, or sony stance, it will only benefit them.
As far as the conspiracy theory, chevron members are still working so don't worry
domineus said:
as far as group chevron is still working
and I still talk to chris and rafael (less of him) on twitter frequently. Chevron team is not hard to find and generally pretty talkative and helpful. Microsoft seems to understand the power that homebrew does have on development and while we don't know specifically the plans of it, I think by not taking an apple, google, or sony stance, it will only benefit them.
As far as the conspiracy theory, chevron members are still working so don't worry
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That's good to know
chevron has been compromised
sure microsoft plays nice, the best they can do is accept that such things as piracy and homebrew exist. and thats what they did.
i mean cmon, they gave them guys tshirts.
did they offer them jobs? why are these guys not working for the dev team already if they have not done something big and special.
as far as i know the chevron unlock was a rather simple hack.
they used the official developer unlock application
wiresharked the data which is send to and from ms when u unlock the phone.
they noticed that the unlock is done by some simple registry entry
you then spoof the ms dev server and send the reg strings to your phone.
and bang, phone was unlocked...
now i dont know how they got the certificate which is needed.
maybe we need a new one.
did anyone actually try to install the old certificate on the nodo ?
i just wonder, will the official developer unlock for $99 allow me to side-load apps? i really want them LG Apps back!
but hey, do you really think microsoft will allow homebrew or better said, side-loading?
you homebrew already with the sdk if you registered
and side-loading? will be called piracy sooner or later
Unreliable
With all due respect, and they did break new ground, this application did not have the bugs worked out. Just read through the hundreds of posts on their site and you will find that half the posters had communications issues and could not unlock, and the devs do not appear to have a handle on the issues nor were they responsive to those issues. This app needs lots of work before it can be considered usable for the vast majority of people who would want to use it. Rework it completely would be my suggestion.
being realistic even users were having issues legitimately registering their devices with windows phone developer...even the sprint arrive has that same issue...
All you need to do is to find a new way to edit the registry keys. LG phones can do this natively. WP7 unlocks are by far the easiest of any device OS.

I Miss You Guys.

The new hardware needed to come out months ago.
bmstrong said:
The new hardware needed to come out months ago.
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You know, I felt the same way and got rid of my Samsung Focus back in March. A couple weeks ago, I decided to give the HTC HD7S a try. I did this in part because I received the Mango Beta 2 invite.
I love this device. The missing front camera, on the WP7 platform, is of no consequence to me. It will be at least another 12 months before this functionality really matters. Hopefully by then, a real standard for video chat will emerge.
I am very happy to have come back to WP7 and the apps have been coming in at a good rate. The only app I wish WP7 would get is Words With Friends. I am somewhat addicted to it. Luckily, I have an iPhone for work and an Acer Iconia Tablet so I get my fix on either of those devices.
I cannot discuss Mango features because of the NDA I signed, but there are plenty of discussions to follow here on XDA. I will say, the Mango update is what is going to keep me on this platform.
naplesbill said:
I did this in part because I received the Mango Beta 2 invite.
<skipped>
I cannot discuss Mango features because of the NDA I signed
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WTF? What NDA you signed that you "can't discuss Mango features"? A lot of web blogs/forums (including XDA!) are already discussing Mango features. It's free info
sensboston said:
WTF? What NDA you signed that you "can't discuss Mango features"? A lot of web blogs/forums (including XDA!) are already discussing Mango features. It's free info
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I obtained Mango through official channels. So, just because others are talking about it and it's features doesn't mean I should ignore the agreement I signed. Whether or not it will cause me problems is irrelevent. Everything I have seen on the web has been by people who obtained Mango unofficially.
You should have noticed that I said there was plenty of information on the beta features already posted on XDA.
This is off-topic from this thread anyway. I have principles that I live by, and abiding by an agreement is one of them. If Microsoft were to post that it is ok to discuss the beta software publicly, then it would be ok for me to discuss it.
naplesbill said:
I obtained Mango through official channels.
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Complete BS! XDA have a bunch WP7 developers who obtained the Mango update through official channels Did you read NDA properly? More - where are lot of MS employee blogs on the web who's already discussing Mango's features, providing a source code etc. etc.
You know, man, you just trying to looks more than you really are (like an MS subcontractor who's got some parts of WP7 source code ). I have a business contacts with the real Microsoft WP7 developers - not a tech-support but PM's and devs who really wrote a code but these guys never said "NDA" word, just keep silence about unannounced features.
P.S. And, of course, all XDA devs will be terribly upset about the lack of your comments!
sensboston said:
Complete BS! XDA have a bunch WP7 developers who obtained the Mango update through official channels Did you read NDA properly? More - where are lot of MS employee blogs on the web who's already discussing Mango's features, providing a source code etc. etc.
You know, man, you just trying to looks more than you really are (like an MS subcontractor who's got some parts of WP7 source code ). I have a business contacts with the real Microsoft WP7 developers - not a tech-support but PM's and devs who really wrote a code but these guys never said "NDA" word, just keep silence about unannounced features.
P.S. And, of course, all XDA devs will be terribly upset about the lack of your comments!
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I have no idea what you are going on about. I could care less what you think. I would suggest disengaging in this childish behavior. Here are the confidentiality terms (straight from the "Acceptance Conditions" for the beta):
microsoft said:
(c) Confidentiality. The Windows Phone (including the software embedded on the Windows Phone and associated services) and any other Deliverables are confidential to Microsoft, its licensors and its suppliers. Please see Section 7 below for requirements pertaining to Confidential Information (as defined below in Section 7).
7. Confidentiality
(a) Confidential Information.All Deliverables, including their existence and features, are proprietary and confidential to Microsoft, its licensors and its suppliers (“Confidential Information”).
(1) Use. You may not disclose Confidential Information or your opinion of the Confidential Information to third parties. You may disclose Confidential Information only to your employees or contractors who need to know the information. You must have written agreements with them which are substantially similar to the terms of this Agreement. You agree to be responsible for the actions of your contractors and any breach of this Agreement by your contractors will be deemed a breach by you.
(2) Exclusions. You may disclose Confidential Information in response to a judicial or governmental order. You must first give written notice to Microsoft to allow it to seek a protective order or otherwise protect the information. Confidential Information does not include information that
• becomes publicly known through no wrongful act;
• you received from a third party who did not breach confidentiality obligations to Microsoft, its licensors or its suppliers; or
• you developed independently.
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So, since I am not a lawyer, and presumably neither are you, I do not know at what point a feature of the software is no longer considered confidential. As such, I choose not to talk about it. If you have a problem understanding this logic, it is not my problem and there is absolutely no need for your condescending attitude about it.
Finally, NDA is just a term used to describe confidentiality. Non-Disclosure is confidentiality.
naplesbill said:
I have no idea what you are going on about. I could care less what you think. I would suggest disengaging in this childish behavior. Here are the confidentiality terms (straight from the "Acceptance Conditions" for the beta):
So, since I am not a lawyer, and presumably neither are you, I do not know at what point a feature of the software is no longer considered confidential. As such, I choose not to talk about it. If you have a problem understanding this logic, it is not my problem and there is absolutely no need for your condescending attitude about it.
Finally, NDA is just a term used to describe confidentiality. Non-Disclosure is confidentiality.
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Well said. The larger point I was trying to make is that despite my SGS2 I miss WP7. It's unique. I just want them to hurry up with the new hardware.
bmstrong said:
Well said. The larger point I was trying to make is that despite my SGS2 I miss WP7. It's unique. I just want them to hurry up with the new hardware.
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I was using the Motorla Atrix, and I actually liked the hardware and docking options. The problem for me is that I get very frustrated with Android and it's inconsistencies. With the hardware in the Atrix you would expect perfectly fluid UI transitions. The reality is that sometimes it still gets jittery.
With that in mind, I decided to give the HD7S a try and I truly enjoy this device much more than any other phone I have had. It really doesn't matter how many cores and how much memory a device has. What matters to me is how efficiently and effectively the device performs when using it.
Also, nothing personal but, I have put Samsung at the bottom of my list of devices. I have had the Captivate, Fascinate (work phone), and the Focus. None of them had adequate GPS performance and both the Android versions barely, if ever, had GPS signals at all. The Focus was also erratic but at least it had a signal more than it didn't. It just seems like Samsung doesn't care about GPS.
How is the SGS2 GPS? Have they finally provided a working GPS? I will see where devices stand after the Holidays. I will keep using the HD7S until then.
Has anyone tried the htc arrive? I was thinking about getting this phone, switching from android. And now that mango can be put on it, I think it sound pretty good.
The good thing about WP7 is when you get it you feel to give it away for lacking lots of features. Once you use it and read about the future updates, you become passionate towards it.
I have trophy which I bought for 600$. I feel now it was worthy to be bought.
Sent from my 7 Trophy using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
bricky23 said:
Has anyone tried the htc arrive? I was thinking about getting this phone, switching from android. And now that mango can be put on it, I think it sound pretty good.
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Yep I've got it on monday, but it is the european version called 7 Pro, it differs only in having other network frequencys. It is a bit thick(15mm ~ 0,59") and quite heavy(185g) but very well built and the keyboard is really superb. Battery life is also quite good because it has a 1500mAh battery. Camera takes decent pics.
I miss my Omnia 7.
I went crazy happy that Samsung finally found a fix for the call issue and network problems. I went equally frustrated when it turned out there not using HTC standards, and forced to send my phone in for the firmware update :-( I love my Omnia 7, thruly a masterpice, but Samsung just had to be stupid, it amazes me that a company can screw things up this bad and still be in the game.
ATM stuck with a Galaxy Spica with Android till there finished and i still aftet all years find Android lacking, lagging and being a mystery for why so many love it.
Anyways, will have to endure, and a company doing service is gonna test that endurance. It's hard to grasp that 1 single device can be so importent, and so. ... amazing. Metro makes all other OS obsolete, its a new and better way to interact with all increasing data out there. Sure, all phones can have tons of apps and in the end execute tge same feat more or less. But QP is changing how, and its a pleasure being a part of this journey.
The best part for all of us that use one phone, and only could afford 1, getting it early, and aftet 6 months we get a patch basicly giving us a new phone and prolonging life for all first WP owners. I think to few have given it a thought that these first wave devices will have a unussual long life spann.
Well, enough of my rant, and if i stop posting on XDA i have died from missing my phone.
naplesbill said:
I obtained Mango through official channels. So, just because others are talking about it and it's features doesn't mean I should ignore the agreement I signed. Whether or not it will cause me problems is irrelevent. Everything I have seen on the web has been by people who obtained Mango unofficially.
You should have noticed that I said there was plenty of information on the beta features already posted on XDA.
This is off-topic from this thread anyway. I have principles that I live by, and abiding by an agreement is one of them. If Microsoft were to post that it is ok to discuss the beta software publicly, then it would be ok for me to discuss it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, I really admire your principles and is a good example that you are stating here (at least to me) please see my atrix NDA thread if you share this XDA can be in problems and obviously you.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1056714
Let's get back on topic.

Windows 10 Mobile more dead than alive

How you guys enjoying upside-down camera in Skype app (after latest update)? :laugh:
Are you still waiting for "WP internals 2.2"? Are you necromancers (or necrophils)? :laugh:
So, trust me (to a man who has and used WP much earlier than you heard about it), WP/W10M platform is almost dead, and damn M$ do everything to kill it (even hardware isn't too outdated). Best we can do, is to sell these damn handsets on eBay (while they cost at least a few bucks). I predict, this summer you'll not be able to sell L-950/Xl even for a $50!
Will be glad to hear any real-life arguments about latest M$ "bugdate"... BTW, if you really enjoy upside-down camera in Skype - please do not reply...
As i said in reddit, gonna quote myself.
The Microsoft CEO has no clue on what to do. Maybe Satya has some aces up his sleeve but at this point i serously doubt it. Like when you are watching The voice and you're waiting for Jesus Christ to come down and blow your head off... but Jesus Christ doesn't come.
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Still happy for what my Lumia is....just a companion
The death of platform forced me (a complete Windows user without any other platform) to use my laptop most of times. For example, using Word for college work and some websites like my college one dosen't load properly on my Lumia 730. That times, when most of my friends use their phones for those tasks, I take out my trusty laptop. Even for Spotify, I hate the Mobile app but the desktop app and web works fine. So for me, the phone is just a companion not more than that at all, like others who use phones and iPads for little work.
Waiting for Surface Phone to change that and I want it to be more productive than Android/iOS.
ops
this is zambi
not dead
i hope my 950XL works one year more no (big) problems, camera is excellent...
btw... is easy to get back to AU and have less problems
dxdy said:
i hope my 950XL works one year more no (big) problems, camera is excellent...
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I thought so but looks like M$ have a different plan Skype is a primary functionality (at least for me). What bug we should expect next? Impossibility to make phone calls or send SMS?
dxdy said:
btw... is easy to get back to AU and have less problems
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Click to collapse
This will not solve Skype issue. And w/o updates many apps become non-working...
But the worst news is: this showstopper means - there is ABSOLUTELY NO QUALITY ASSURANCE for releases, nobody at M$ testing/care about W10M releases! What if student-intern or outsourced contractor from Bangalore, India will add a rootkit/troyan/malicious code to the next release?!
W10M become very dangerous OS, it's not safe to use it anymore...
No, it isn't dead. In fact, Microsoft released the new build 15254.158 a few days ago.
mikevespa said:
No, it isn't dead. In fact, Microsoft released the new build 15254.158 a few days ago.
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That's a security patch... meltdown protection and other stuff... It's not like a new version of the os with features.
Sensoboston, i wat to buy your 950 xl. Detail on PM.
@augustinionut, I don't have XL. 950 only. And I'll sell 'em (we have 2) on eBay only.
I have no skype problems.
I just turned my head upside down
I suggest to the moderator of this forum, to close this thread, because it's useless and misleading. W10M is still supported and updated!
If you don't like W10M anymore, just don't use it!
mikevespa said:
I suggest to the moderator of this forum, to close this thread, because it's useless and misleading. W10M is still supported and updated!
If you don't like W10M anymore, just don't use it!
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No reason to close the thread honestly, if you have evidence that it is supported and updated, then post up and let's get a real conversation going. Prove the OP wrong and let's see what MS is doing that you like, or could do better.
We can keep an eye out but I haven't seen anything in this thread that would warrant it being closed.
Windows 10 Mobile really IS more dead than alive.
If I remember correctly MS promised to backport new APIs to W10M, so it could use new or updated UWP apps. This seems like just another broken promise.
As Microsoft has removed Windows 10 Mobile from the Windows 10 SDK, this is the last nail in the coffin.
"Without presence of Mobile in the SDK, no new apps can be developed, and developers can’t update their apps anymore."
"As PC moves on, Mobile has got stuck on Redstone 2. So if a developer wants to update his UWP app, he has to split it into two versions, one for Mobile and the other for rest."
"Microsoft has already stopped updating many of their apps, and it is a matter of time before other developers follow suit."
Source: https://www.windowslatest.com/2017/12/29/mentions-windows-10-mobile-removed-windows-10-sdk/
The PRODUCT_MOBILE_CORE definition is no longer needed because the core is the same and shared among PC, mobile, XBOX, HoloLens and IoT
mikevespa said:
The PRODUCT_MOBILE_CORE definition is no longer needed because the core is the same and shared among PC, mobile, XBOX, HoloLens and IoT
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Source?
DECEMBER 2015 - Build 11082
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/12/16/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-11082/
This includes the changes that have also been going out as cumulative updates through Windows Update on your PCs running the Windows 10 November Update as well as on phones running Windows 10 too. We’re also working on some structural improvements to OneCore, which is the shared core of Windows across devices. Essentially, OneCore is the heart of Windows, and these improvements to OneCore make building Windows across PC, tablet, phone, IoT, Hololens and Xbox more efficient. We’re doing some code refactoring and other engineering work to make sure OneCore is optimally structured for teams to start checking in new features and improvements in the new year."
JANUARY 2016 - Build 11099
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsex...ncing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-11099/
"this build does not include big noticeable changes or new features yet. Our focus through the holidays was on structural improvements to OneCore, which is the shared core of Windows across devices. The code refactoring and other engineering work we’ve been doing to optimize OneCore is nearing the point where we will be ready for teams to begin checking in new features and improvements. It will still be a few builds before any really noticeable changes show up, depending on when teams begin lighting up new features in their areas. We’re excited for Insiders to use this build to validate the work we’ve been doing to OneCore, so give this build a try and let us know of any issues you run into via the Windows Feedback app."
AUGUST 2016 - Anniversary Update
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsex...indows-10-insider-preview-build-14901-for-pc/
"We are focusing on making some structural improvements to OneCore which is the shared “heart” of Windows across PC, tablet, phone, IoT, Hololens and Xbox. We’re doing some code refactoring and other engineering work to make sure OneCore is optimally structured for teams to start checking in new features and improvements in a few months. As a result, these builds may include more bugs and other issues that could be slightly more painful for some people to live with"
APRIL 2017
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsex...er-preview-build-16176-pc-build-15204-mobile/
"We are also releasing Windows 10 Mobile Insider Preview Build 15204 to Insiders in the Fast ring. As we release new builds from our Development Branch for PC, we will also be doing the same for Windows 10 Mobile just like we have been in the past. However, Windows Insiders will likely notice some minor differences. The biggest difference being that the build number and branch won’t match the builds we will be releasing for PC. This is a result of more work we’re doing to converge code into OneCore – the heart of Windows across PC, tablet, phone, IoT, HoloLens, Xbox and more as we continue to develop new improvements for Windows 10 Mobile and our enterprise customers."
mikevespa said:
APRIL 2017
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...-15204-mobile/
"We are also releasing Windows 10 Mobile Insider Preview Build 15204 to Insiders in the Fast ring. As we release new builds from our Development Branch for PC, we will also be doing the same for Windows 10 Mobile just like we have been in the past. However, Windows Insiders will likely notice some minor differences. The biggest difference being that the build number and branch won’t match the builds we will be releasing for PC.
This is a result of more work we’re doing to converge code into OneCore – the heart of Windows across PC, tablet, phone, IoT, HoloLens, Xbox and more as we continue to develop new improvements for Windows 10 Mobile and our enterprise customers."
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Your info is from when Windows Mobile 10 was pulled out of Windows 10 "main" branch with the "feature2" branch and was basically frozen at Redstone 2. Which of course means that any further development and improvements of OneCore from there on will never reach W10M. Just like other parts of the OS will never get updated, W10M is stuck with Edge version 40 and won't get any new Cortana features.
W10M has not been part of the OneCore development since it was left behind in "feature2".
That's the reason why Microsoft said they would backport some APIs from Redstone 3 (Fall Creators Update) and Redstone 4 to W10M "feature2" / Redstone 2. But the question now is if they changed their minds, when they are already removing W10M from the Windows 10 SDK.
BTW, the "PRODUCT_MOBILE_CORE" definition has nothing to do with OneCore / Windows kernel. It's a definition in the GetProductInfo function which tells a program which product type of Windows it's running on. "_CORE" in this case is just used for basic / consumer editions, like "PRODUCT_CORE" is used for Windows 10 Home and "PRODUCT_PROFESSIONAL" is used for Windows 10 Pro. There even was a "PRODUCT_MOBILE_ENTERPRISE" for Windows 10 Mobile Enterprise.
sensboston said:
How you guys enjoying upside-down camera in Skype app (after latest update)? :laugh:
Are you still waiting for "WP internals 2.2"? Are you necromancers (or necrophils)? :laugh:
So, trust me (to a man who has and used WP much earlier than you heard about it), WP/W10M platform is almost dead, and damn M$ do everything to kill it (even hardware isn't too outdated). Best we can do, is to sell these damn handsets on eBay (while they cost at least a few bucks). I predict, this summer you'll not be able to sell L-950/Xl even for a $50!
Will be glad to hear any real-life arguments about latest M$ "bugdate"... BTW, if you really enjoy upside-down camera in Skype - please do not reply...
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It is in ones perspective.
From a consumer standpoint the Devices dropped off and the OS is crawling along instead of running with the other builds like before. Unfortunately W10M is heading to a dead end. Fortunately for me it has no bearing either way. My phone calls still work, email, data, wifi etc. No need to move to something else, or declare my device obsolete. Ya Microsoft is not officially supporting W10M with no builds and features, but it is still supported with patches and such. For me to have a 4 year old device (in some cases) still running the latest and greatest Microsoft has to offer is fine by me. We all have different needs. If it aint working for you then it is fine to find what you need that does work. I personally really enjoy the basic functionality out of the box of the Lumias. Plus it is easy and cheap to find parts if something fixable on them breaks
From a developer standpoint, I bet this feels like a shot in the foot though from Microsoft in some ways. They basically drove off all their developers by not pushing out newer mobile devices or ways to make the Windows OS stick on phones. But maybe that was their plan since 2015...That is the way I see it anyway
nate0 said:
My phone calls still work, email, data, wifi etc.
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But what do you do with a Skype, may I ask you? Do you do acrobatic stunts and meet other people via Skype on your head?
I believe, my 9 yo "dumb phone" from Motorola still can receive phone calls, emails etc. (but I never tried since 2010) if I'll find working and active "big" SIM-card. But this definitely not a point! My point is: Lumia 950 (handset costs me about $650 - via 2 years contract extension with AT&T) become unusable for most common tasks. I can't use Skype, I can't control quadcopter with it, I can't even unlock a bicycle from VBikes company! And can't do a lot of other things...
And, finally, I'm really tired from the usual L-950 customers "prayer": "But the camera is outstanding!" No, sir, nothing outstanding for the current times.

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