Develop Bugs

Windows Phone 7... WTF

Anyone seen the article at PPCGeeks.com about Windows Phone 7??
I cant believe the crap Microsoft is trying to pull...
-At the Mobile World Congress event on February 15th, 2010, Windows Phone 7 will be unveilved, although at this time plans are only to unveil the user interface of the new platform . Specific indepth functionality of the device will most likely not be shown.
-The User Interface is based upon codename “METRO”. It will be very similar to the Zune HD User Interface with a complete revamp of the “Start” screen. The UI is “Very Clean”, “Soulful” and “Alive”
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.
-Marketplace will now support “try before you buy” as well as an API
-No NETCF backwards compatibility. This means the original rumor of no backward compatibility for applications holds to be true. That being said, there are high hopes of porting the NetCF to the newer platform easily.
-Microsoft is confident that devices will be ready by September 2010
-Full Zune Integration
-Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
-Full XBOX Gaming Integration (Gamer tag, achievements, friends, avatars, merchandising, etc)
-Full support for social networking
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Looks like I will be making my next phone purchase based on WinMo6 and Android... Prob wont ever go to WinMo7...

i wouldnt believe any rumors that come out until microsoft confirms it. there have been so many different rumors from respectable sources and they all contradict each other. who to believe? no one

I don't want an iPhone from my Windows phone!

lol. I may use Android but I was looking at WM and thinking "That is a way better work phone than a Blackberry." but after reading those new rumors I am starting to doubt that.
I hope they are wrong since we don't need another iFail on the market but I can tell you one thing. HTC won't stand for that. They will mask all the ugly with their gorgeous HTC SENSE.

Yes but if u read that
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
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So? I think we will see, because HD2 is running with sense, and i don't thing that official update to WM 7 will be something like that.

Oh whatever!...
honestly, why are you surprised?
Look at the success of the other companies and OS's who use similar strategies.
Lock down the device = enhanced and specific support for hardware, and etc., specifically hardware.
ZuneHD is a perfect example. I thought about getting one (for about 5 minutes) because of that sweet'n'sexy little tegra chip. MS couldn't have made that run as smooth & efficiently on a CE5.x base.
I will probably not get one of these phones either (unless they've not leaked some amazing feature like a free MS Surface Table with purchase of every WinPhone7, haha).
Though, I do wish MS the best of luck trying to deliver Proprietary content and software in a prettier way than Apple. I mean lets face it: Apple tends to slap handcuffs on it's customers and they still wanna dance. Hope MS's mobile department has been talking to the Xbox360's marketing Dept.

-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device
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One of the many things I love about my phone is that I can change interfaces, get unique interfaces, and duplicate other phone's interfaces. lets hope this is only one version of Windows 7. It looks they are taking the iphone direction - make the phone idiot proof and lock it down

Haha sounds like someone is making fun of us and posts all that sucks on the iPhone OS:
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not
enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.

WM7
Hmm.. I see Microsoft Iphone

Well if that is true then I will be staying with winmo 6.1/6.5 and Android forever The HD2 is such a powerful beast, I hope Android will be fully ported to it...
Imagine dual booting WM6.5 & Android on the HD2 with it's powerful cpu & large clear capacitive screen!! Then WinMO 7 can go and die a slow death, I wouldn't care

UGH
I fear the future also, as many do. (of the wm os) Microsoft ~ Windows Mobile has a niche for getting things wrong pretty much all the time. I read a rather creditable article that the new sync software was to be the Zune software? WTF my Zune syncs wrong almost all the time especially this last time and the other last time...UGH I fear the future of Windows Mobile and hope they get there heads out of there A$$ and step it up. I've had to call Zune support multiple times and also have to yet to date. (again ugh)
~Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.....?????
~DJyoSNOW~
~PLUR~ Peace Love Unity Respect

If it becomes true, then I will stick on WM 6.5 on the HD2. However, things may change, it could be fake, it could be hackable.

this looks fake... in fact i agree that someone listed all the things that suck on the iphone and wrote "windows phone 7" all over it.
these points look like from an US-centered point of view. i mean - marketplace?! it's crap all over the world and nearly empty, EXCEPT in the US. zune?! it has been released only where? exactly, again the US.
no OEM-gui allowed? if that were to be true, htc would've already announced to stop making winmo-phones.
nah, this is fake...

Just a Rumor
We still need to wait and see, this is a rumor. I think most people on here would not stand for an Iphone like OS and would move to android instead if Windows did that. I kinda believe they will have a duel os model and this description would fit the model for the media targeted devices. A professional-like version would keep alot of what we love alive and give us some of what we are hoping for.

Look what Apple did and how successful they are with those iPhone and iPod Touch.
But I doubt it is true, those rumors are (at least half of them) fake .

omg!!! no multi-task..

I don't think Microsoft will do this.
They must be crazy to.. If they do this, the 'enthusiast' users (the people currently still holding up Windows Mobile on their hands) will drop the new OS and MS would have to start all over again. Why would users choose for their OS while there are no advantages any longer?
Maybe this is the spec of some limited media/Zune version of the OS, not the PRO version, if these are actually true.
Might aswell be some bashing done by an iPhone/Andoid fanboy that got picked up further down the pipe.

I don't believe all of it. I think those are just rumors from the anti-MS people.
If MS ever wanted to make Windows to be like a MAC OS, they would have done it long ago. I don't think they will do such thing in the Mobile branch neither.
I would think(hope) it will be something like:
Windows Phone = Windows 7 Home (for the grandpas)
Windows Phone Pro = Windows 7 Ultimate/Pro (for the enthusiasts/geeks)

i doubt that there is not going to be any Multi-Tasking. thats what "Windows" is all about. probably all BS

OndraSter said:
Look what Apple did and how successful they are with those iPhone and iPod Touch.
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Yep, but just take a look why ppl are still sticking with the pretty outdated windows mobile. Because of an open system, not this closed sh*t. Seriously, why should anybody pick Windows Mobile 7 with the same shortcomings as the iPhone, when the iPhone got perfected for 4 years prior to the new MS OS ... with a whole more of useful apps.
But since android is a nice alternative with lots of customization-options and multitasking, I don't really care about MS f*cking up Windows Mobile 7. Would be nice if they didn't though ...

Windows Phone 7 – Released To Manufacturing

Today is the day that the Windows Phone team has been driving towards, and we’re very excited to say that we’ve reached the biggest milestone for our internal team – the release to manufacturing (RTM) of Windows Phone 7! While the final integration of Windows Phone 7 with our partners’ hardware, software, and networks is underway, the work of our internal engineering team is largely complete.
Windows Phone 7 is the most thoroughly tested mobile platform Microsoft has ever released. We had nearly ten thousand devices running automated tests daily, over a half million hours of active self-hosting use, over three and a half million hours of stress test passes, and eight and a half million hours of fully automated test passes. We’ve had thousands of independent software vendors and early adopters testing our software and giving us great feedback. We are ready.
I last posted on this blog when we reached the Technical Preview milestone, and we’ve received some great feedback since then which we’ve been able to respond to and improve the smart design throughout the OS. For example, folks loved the Facebook integration in the People Hub, but they also wanted ways to filter their contacts so only the Facebook friends they really know will show up in their contact list – we’ve added support for that. We’ve also made it easy to “like” a post right from the People Hub, or quickly post a message to someone’s Facebook wall directly.
This has been one of the most incredible product development efforts I’ve ever been a part of. Today’s milestone is exciting not just because of what we’ll deliver to customers later this year, but how it sets us up for success over the long term in the mobile space… we’re really just getting started.
We reached today’s milestone because of the tremendous efforts of the entire team including our partners, early adopters, and independent software developers providing feedback. I want to send a huge THANK YOU to this extended team– we couldn’t have done it without you!
by Terry Myerson
Windows Phone Blog
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_...indows-phone-7-released-to-manufacturing.aspx

To general!
~~Tito~~

They're listening, that's great news by itself.

If they want to get this right they better be listening.

I wonder how long it will take them to move to silverlight 4 so they can get the clipboard support. Also I wonder how long before we'll see ie9 integrated into there as well.

Here's what I want to see:
1. HTML5
2. Silverlight/Flash in browser (I know flash is planned)
3. Copy/Paste
4. 3rd Party Multitasking
5. Thumb Drive Support even if it's restricted access to what's viewable.

Kloc said:
1. HTML5
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I don't understand why people want this so bad recently. I can't think of a single site that even has a html5 version yet alone HTML5 only. Not that I'm saying they shouldn't use it...but it's hardly on my radar of things to care about.

Just because it's the newest standard and it won't be long before sites are implementing it. I've looked at the docs and it has some pretty cool stuff built-in. I'd just like to see MS stay up with the lastest and greatest.

Kloc said:
Just because it's the newest standard and it won't be long before sites are implementing it. I've looked at the docs and it has some pretty cool stuff built-in. I'd just like to see MS stay up with the lastest and greatest.
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I think it'll be a rather long time (5-10 yrs) before anyone major decides to really make a site really dependent on HTML5/CSS3. The reality is it takes a long time for people to migrate to newer technologies ie. a decade later and we're supporting IE6 and XP. I can see using it as an enhancement for people capable of viewing that content. But you still want your site to be designed for non-HTML5 content if you want to appeal to everyone.
From a web development point of view, you're also stepping into a mindfield as browser compatiblity is concerned.

gom99 said:
I think it'll be a rather long time (5-10 yrs) before anyone major decides to really make a site really dependent on HTML5/CSS3. The reality is it takes a long time for people to migrate to newer technologies ie. a decade later and we're supporting IE6 and XP. I can see using it as an enhancement for people capable of viewing that content. But you still want your site to be designed for non-HTML5 content if you want to appeal to everyone.
From a web development point of view, you're also stepping into a mindfield as browser compatiblity is concerned.
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Honestly I don't really care all that much. It's just because the iphone has it

Kloc said:
Honestly I don't really care all that much. It's just because the iphone has it
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lol yea, it's never a good idea to give Jobs something to make a snarky comment at one of his conferences. He's such a whiney brat . I don't think I've seen a single conference where he hasn't had some kind of underhanded remark to make.

I still want to know what the MS excuse de jour is for making WP7 incompatible with existing devices, especially since their site pushes some pricy Windows phones. If this oversight can't be fixed, they ought to give away or discount replacement phones.

piaqt said:
I still want to know what the MS excuse de jour is for making WP7 incompatible with existing devices, especially since their site pushes some pricy Windows phones. If this oversight can't be fixed, they ought to give away or discount replacement phones.
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It's not really an excuse. If you sat down and thought about it you'd come up with the answer. If you made it for the devices today you'd be making it for older hardware and you'd have to limit what your OS could do based on the crop of current windows phones (aside from the hd2 they're pretty slow).
By setting it's requirements MS ensures that they provide a certain baseline experience to their end users. By having a standard for minimum buttons you're making it easy for consumers to pick up any wp7 regardless of what maker and have a consistent experience.
It's not an oversight. I don't see why they need discount replacement phones, this would be a carrier decision anyway...kind of like a cash for klunkers program.

piaqt said:
I still want to know what the MS excuse de jour is for making WP7 incompatible with existing devices, especially since their site pushes some pricy Windows phones. If this oversight can't be fixed, they ought to give away or discount replacement phones.
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It's a fresh start and they really needed it. They decided to make a baseline and all the window's phone out today don't meet the requirements. I think this is a good move by MS. If you can't afford to buy a new phone then just used your 6.5 device until you can. If they had made them all upgradable we would still have the bad fragmentation that Windows Mobile has today. I'm sure there will be cheaper model, heavily subsidizes devices that will hit the market so you'll have your chance.

wwweeeeee.
Singing ....
gimmi gimmi gimmi my phone after midnight, plz wont somebody give me there Win Phone 7 away.
Gimmi gimmi gimmi a 5 inch display, duel core and without a delay" =)))
*gaahh*
...i just got to sing again =)
....and they where singing, by by foul fruit goodbye, calld on Jobs but the call got hanged up lost connection somehow...

definately a good sign for microsoft...as of right now the road seems bright
we shall see though...

HD2?
So do I understand it correctly? Even no windows mobile 7 for the HD2? I'd assume that the HD2 does meet the hardware requirements.

msportel77 said:
So do I understand it correctly? Even no windows mobile 7 for the HD2? I'd assume that the HD2 does meet the hardware requerements.
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Nope the HD2 does not have the right hardware buttons. It's probably the only device that may be possible to get ported to WP7 by us here though.

msportel77 said:
So do I understand it correctly? Even no windows mobile 7 for the HD2? I'd assume that the HD2 does meet the hardware requerements.
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No it doesn't... it has 5 buttons in the front of the device ... not the 3 standart displacement required by MS...

Kloc said:
Here's what I want to see:
1. HTML5
2. Silverlight/Flash in browser (I know flash is planned)
3. Copy/Paste
4. 3rd Party Multitasking
5. Thumb Drive Support even if it's restricted access to what's viewable.
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Click to collapse
I consign all of those things lol.

7.8 Features

So basically what we are going to get is just the "new" start screen? nothing else? like maps powered by nokia, skype integration?

I would love to know too. Almost sold my Lumia already, but I dont know which phone I get instead it. I'll keep it for a while.
Guess we will know in a few days, no one knows it right now.

Paul Thurrott has a write-up about this here:
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windowsphone75/windows-phone-78-preview-143476

Wait.. No multitasking? Nor Skype integrated!?!?

Seems like MS is doing everything to loose these 1-2% of the smartphones market...

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1722502

I wont buy another windows phone anymore! I liked windows phone so much, but microsoft disappoint me with no updates for first generation devices. If the old phones would also get the new kernel, app-compability and skype-integration, then would it be enough. But Microsoft is ****ing stupid and dropps the little amount of windows phone users in only one day!

luizmeme said:
So basically what we are going to get is just the "new" start screen? nothing else? like maps powered by nokia, skype integration?
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I just contacted the WinPhoneSupport:
http://www.twitter.com/WinPhoneSupport/status/215556734205435904
@WinPhoneSupport: @ChrisK91 The only thing announced for 7.8 is the change of the start screen. ^EB
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ruyzalim said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1722502
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It's a stupid marketing bull**** from MS guy... This Belfiore guy wrote:
Windows Phone 8 is a generation shift in technology, which means that it will not run on existing hardware. BUT we care deeply about our existing customers and want to keep their phones fresh, so we’re providing the new Start screen in this new update.
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It's a complete bull****! "shift in technology"... He should try Galaxy S III first!
But the facts are:
- MS just made stupidest decision in a years. Probably next 5 month WP7 sales will fall to 0.
- also, I'm expecting the app developers (as I am) will stop developing new stuff for "outdated" WP7 platform;
- it's a painful blow to manufacturers, especially to Nokia! Who will buy "gorgeous Lumia 900" now if it become outdated old piece of hardware so shortly? Check ebay in few days - Lumia 900 price will be bellow $200...
- and, finally, the most important thing: Microsoft has lost the trust and loyalty of customers. Who will spend money for "brand new" WP8 if next year they will announce WP9?
So, my conclusion: it's a very good time to sell MS stocks right now! Don't wait and risk your money...

freddx said:
I wont buy another windows phone anymore! I liked windows phone so much, but microsoft disappoint me with no updates for first generation devices. If the old phones would also get the new kernel, app-compability and skype-integration, then would it be enough. But Microsoft is ****ing stupid and dropps the little amount of windows phone users in only one day!
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Calm down... Don't you know what a kernel change means? It's like installing linux over windows on your PC. The OEM would start from scratch, rewrite every driver on the device (cpu, gpu, display, buttons, touch, accelerometer, compass, bluetooth, wlan... And the list goes on forever), that would take about 9 months at least. The OEM would loose more money than it would get.

jessenic said:
Calm down... Don't you know what a kernel change means? It's like installing linux over windows on your PC. The OEM would start from scratch, rewrite every driver on the device (cpu, gpu, display, buttons, touch, accelerometer, compass, bluetooth, wlan... And the list goes on forever), that would take about 9 months at least. The OEM would loose more money than it would get.
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Sorry I was in rage....but an update with more features would be nice The "old" hardware can do more than only a new start screen. Apple even gives a iOS6 lite to the 3Gs and all appstore-apps are compatible...

sensboston said:
It's a stupid marketing bull**** from MS guy... This Belfiore guy wrote:
It's a complete bull****! "shift in technology"... He should try Galaxy S III first!
But the facts are:
- MS just made stupidest decision in a years. Probably next 5 month WP7 sales will fall to 0.
- also, I'm expecting the app developers (as I am) will stop developing new stuff for "outdated" WP7 platform;
- it's a painful blow to manufacturers, especially to Nokia! Who will buy "gorgeous Lumia 900" now if it become outdated old piece of hardware so shortly? Check ebay in few days - Lumia 900 price will be bellow $200...
- and, finally, the most important thing: Microsoft has lost the trust and loyalty of customers. Who will spend money for "brand new" WP8 if next year they will announce WP9?
So, my conclusion: it's a very good time to sell MS stocks right now! Don't wait and risk your money...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You shouldn't sell MS stocks right now, because of one developer summit. Of course, there are a lot of disappointed users (including me) about the way MS took. But I don't think that every point in your list is valid. I doubt that WP7 sales will drop to 0. There are a lot of people buying phones based on feel. However I guess the WP7 sales will decrease in the coming months. At least the sales of new expensive devices like the Titan or Lumia 900. I also expect the prices of current handsets to drop over a few days.
Microsofts course could harm Nokia, I totally agree. When they made Nokia Drive available to every device, Nokia lost a unique selling point. One of the reasons why I bought a Lumia 800 was the free navigation. I'm expecting that Nokia's stock will drop even further in the coming days, if there aren't any new announcements that "improve" the current situation.
I also get that developers will target new phones. However how do you develop for Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8? Most likely with C# and the .Net framework. And guess what? You can run .Net based Apps on Windows Phone 7 as well. But at first I was also skeptical about this question and asked it in a Nokia Conversations discussion. The answer of a Nokia employee is attached.
the most important thing: Microsoft has lost the trust and loyalty of customers.
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I totally agree. However they can gain (at least my) trust back by providing not only the new start screen, but other improvements as well. The rumored new notification system comes to mind.
All in all I guess this announcement did not resolve the current update situation. In a nutshell MS stated that WP8 will be based on a new kernel and that this new kernel won't come to existing devices. Most of the new announcements were hardware related. One of the software things is the start screen, and this one is coming in Windows Phone 7.8. Did did not say, that this start screen is the only thing in this update. As stated above, MS should release (and continue releasing) updates that add WP8 functionality to WP7.
jessenic said:
Calm down... Don't you know what a kernel change means? It's like installing linux over windows on your PC. The OEM would start from scratch, rewrite every driver on the device (cpu, gpu, display, buttons, touch, accelerometer, compass, bluetooth, wlan... And the list goes on forever), that would take about 9 months at least. The OEM would loose more money than it would get.
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Click to collapse
Well it's of course expensive. But if Microsoft stays coherent with the kernel they could most likely reuse the code in the future. But I think the problem is hardware related. On one side there are the NFC features. Also the SecureBoot can't be integrated (at least AFAIK) only software vise. They have special hardware requirements and current phones don't meet them. Then again, the current CPUs are very fast and can run the Windows Phone 7.8 experience.

Chris, you are optimistic guy (and it's OK!) but I believe we do have more points for pessimism now...
What's happened - it's not a hardware-related but just marketing (read - stupid marketing!) issue. Microsoft is copying Apple's strategy now (probably they planned to sell own MS handsets) but without Steve Jobs magic it's hopeless...
MS public persons explanations - it's a bull****, don't trust 'em! It's like a "4 GB limitation of x86 OS'es" (what is an outrageous lie). I'm 99% sure it's happened because of two reasons:
- they want to "save" (he-he) some money for dropping old handsets support ;
- but the primary reason (I think so): they want to sell their own handsets
Also, unsuccessful WP7 marketing campaign during last two years should open our eyes...
I'd like to be optimistic but...

@sensbottom: let me correct your two mistakes there:
a) 4GB is really limit of 32bit operating systems. PAE requires the applications to support it => almost none do.
b) Supporting another system takes more money than upgrading them to the same one. Long term.

@OndaTer, first of all, I'm sensboston (Boston - it's a city on the East cost of US)
Second, read this: http://www.unawave.de/windows-7-tipps/32-bit-ram-barrier.html?lang=EN You may google for more if you want...
Third, what do you mean by "another system"? What "another" system? WP8 devices will have same CPU (arm) as current handsets; of course, adding support of current handsets should cost some money! But loosing the trust (finally) is much more expensive, you'll see it by the end of this month (even week). Just mark today's MS stock price...

Sorry, I always read it that way
a) Yes, it is called PAE, which is exactly what I wrote. Read it again! It is NOT possible to address >4GB with 32bit addresses. PAE uses 36bit addressing, but the application HAS to be compiled to be able to support the extra space!
b) "It is more money consuming (long term) to work on 7.8 line and 8.0+ line."
// I mean - application itself has only 4GB virtual space. Yes, the rest of the system can move the base of each application and thus use >4GB RAM. But note that also drivers must support it and that's why it is usually targetted at servers and it is disabled on desktops!
// ah I see what you mean - I thought that they removed it after SP2 or SP3 of XP (the issues with driver compatibility with PAE enabled).

sensboston said:
Chris, you are optimistic guy (and it's OK!) but I believe we do have more points for pessimism now...
What's happened - it's not a hardware-related but just marketing (read - stupid marketing!) issue. Microsoft is copying Apple's strategy now (probably they planned to sell own MS handsets) but without Steve Jobs magic it's hopeless...
MS public persons explanations - it's a bull****, don't trust 'em! It's like a "4 GB limitation of x86 OS'es" (what is an outrageous lie). I'm 99% sure it's happened because of two reasons:
- they want to "save" (he-he) some money for dropping old handsets support ;
- but the primary reason (I think so): they want to sell their own handsets
Also, unsuccessful WP7 marketing campaign during last two years should open our eyes...
I'd like to be optimistic but...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, we don't really have a choice here. I cannot return my phone and I have to live with it until 2013. At the moment we should wait what Microsoft announces about the 7.8 update. The Nokia Conversations Post mentioned multiple changes in the Windows Phone 7.8 update. They also reassured that they will stay committed to delivering updates. And it's not like that our phones will suddenly stop to work. Everything will be as integrated as before.

ChrisKringel said:
Well, we don't really have a choice here. I cannot return my phone and I have to live with it until 2013. At the moment we should wait what Microsoft announces about the 7.8 update. The Nokia Conversations Post mentioned multiple changes in the Windows Phone 7.8 update. They also reassured that they will stay committed to delivering updates. And it's not like that our phones will suddenly stop to work. Everything will be as integrated as before.
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THIS!
Im a little annoyed that my titan wont get the full WP8 update but im sure it will still get some new features! they've only shown WP8 once so far at a dev summit and people are saying they are going to sell there phones its mad! also i dont get people complaining that there first gen phones are getting WP8! they will be 2 years old!!! You are getting a update like apple would basically so stop complaining! If you were on android you would be out in the cold with a two year old handset most likely

WP 7.5 lacks a lot of features and we're going to be left out just like that.
This is just great. It's been like 6 months since I bought my phone and it's already outdated. Thank you MS. My phone is now nothing but a brick!

luizmeme said:
WP 7.5 lacks a lot of features and we're going to be left out just like that.
This is just great. It's been like 6 months since I bought my phone and it's already outdated. Thank you MS. My phone is now nothing but a brick!
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ok your getting a WP7.8 update arent you? you dont know what thats going to contain yet! also by the time this comes out your phone will actually be 12 months old almost and oh yes last time i checked the phone isnt suddenly going to stop working is it!

Reminder: Don't expect the 8.1 Preview to behave.

It's a beta! It's buggy, it's slow (at least on a Surface RT).
If you use your tablet daily, stay away from this thing. Wait for the full release.

SilverHedgehog said:
It's a beta! It's buggy, it's slow (at least on a Surface RT).
If you use your tablet daily, stay away from this thing. Wait for the full release.
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expecting bumps. so far it's good and I am not experiencing any hiccups yet. I very much like the changes.
cheers

Well, I found it rather buggy - though considering how I use it, I'm rather surprised how well it works in 8.0. Still, a warning might be a good idea - I'm sick of people attacking companies when beta software is behaving like beta software.

It's also so limited in terms of the number of devices and regions it will actually install in, I rather get the impression it was a real rush job to try and show that improvements are at least coming at some point.

SilverHedgehog said:
It's a beta! It's buggy, it's slow (at least on a Surface RT).
If you use your tablet daily, stay away from this thing. Wait for the full release.
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I don`t stand by you .I think the RT 8.1 is perfect。The experience on my surface RT is nice

seven7xiaoyang said:
I don`t stand by you .I think the RT 8.1 is perfect。The experience on my surface RT is nice
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I second that.. My Surface is faster and smoother now. Especially with IE11. I have no more lags or getting the Browser to freeze. I love it!

I have the 8.1 Preview on my Surface RT and it seems fine. I wouldn't caution anybody against it based on what I've seen so far.
Tk

ToddKlindt said:
I have the 8.1 Preview on my Surface RT and it seems fine. I wouldn't caution anybody against it based on what I've seen so far.
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Jailbreak. 'Nuff said.

Using Spotify crashes the browser - worked perfectly in 8.0.

A reminder to all who find bugs: PLEASE report them to MS! This is our last chance to ask Microsoft to fix things while the software is in development. Once it ships and gets handed off to a maintenance team, changes will be much slower to arrive.
Note: while the continued restriction on running our own desktop apps is not strictly a bug, this is also a good time to complain to MS about that; it's a very easy policy for them to change, if they decide it would be worth it!

So far my experience with windows rt. 8.1 is very nice. I like the outlook 2013, the keyboard and the response time of the tablet.

GoodDayToDie said:
A reminder to all who find bugs: PLEASE report them to MS! This is our last chance to ask Microsoft to fix things while the software is in development. Once it ships and gets handed off to a maintenance team, changes will be much slower to arrive.
Note: while the continued restriction on running our own desktop apps is not strictly a bug, this is also a good time to complain to MS about that; it's a very easy policy for them to change, if they decide it would be worth it!
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You need to read up on win32 vs. RT as well as some basic application architecture, then you will see why your complaint isn't valid.
Just because it has a pretty desktop and a run box doesn't mean apps magically work... Code for winform apps has to be compiled for arm vs x86/x64 to function and that just isn't going to happen. Explorer is there for a shim/stopgap.. By win9, will likely be gone for good.
This is like winnt on alpha and 2008 on titanium all over again... Except its now in the hands of consumers that don't understand what's going on under the covers.
MS should have never put a traditional desktop/explorer in RT and just finished the port of apps to modernui because its confusing to the average user.
Just think if apple had a shortcut in iOS to give you a macosx desktop that didn't run Mac apps..
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

@libbycm: Despite being here even longer than I have, you appear to have no idea who you're talking to *or* what you're talking about.
I maintain the Ported Apps thread for RT, and have ported a few of them myself (and should get back into it with something more realistic than Chrome, which I still hope to get working Some Day Soon Now). I am quite *personally* familiar with the requirements of porting, the difficulties of working around missing functionality (almost all of which, it should be noted, is missing by design and not neccessity), and the realities of what an ARM processor can and cannot do.
First of all, .NET apps (including WinForms ones and even once that use COM or P/Invoke to system libraries) work just fine, no recompile needed. That's a pretty small portion of the overall Windows software ecosystem, of course, but it's a growing one and also it's one that would be seen as worth targeting by more developers if they saw an actual benefit to architecture-independent toolchains on Windows.
Second, and related to the first, .NET is far from the only architecture-independent language. Java (though IKVM, though .NET) kind of works on RT already; it wouldn't take much to make a serious platform worthy of an official port. Same for Python, and we already have Perl. Yeah, that's still miniscule next to the bulk of legacy x86 code, but it would nonetheless make RT a far more popular platform (for example, many of the Windows bittorrent clients are either Java or Python code, and some very popular games are written in those languages).
Third, even with the crippled tools that we have cobbled together to do our porting, and despite the fact that it's all done on our own time, we've managed a fair number of native ports already. There'd be far more if it weren't for the fact that we can't port closed-source programs (and many open-source ones don't happily compile under MSVC, which is the only RT-targeting compiler we have right now). Already, a growing number of programs are natively available on x64 - after all, it's just a drop-down selection and another click on "Build" in Visual Studio. Well, the same is true of RT. It wouldn't get legacy software, but there's no reason that *new* software released in the last half year - even proprietary commercial stuff - couldn't support RT. After all, it's more customer base for almost no additional work (supporting x64 is sometimes actually more work than supported ARM; at least ARM uses the same-width pointers as x86).
Fourth, legacy code is - by its very nature - older code and generally suitable for running on less-powerful systems. You mentioned Apple... but you failed to mention that when Apple went from 68k CPUs to PowerPC CPUs, and then from PPC to x86, they used mostly-transparent emulation layers to bridge those gaps. Yeah, the code ran slower, but it ran well enough for most purposes. Yeah, ARM is *less* powerful than x86, not more powerful (although you could argue that the same is true for some use cases when going from a G5 to a first-gen Core Duo), but we've also gotten better at this emulation thing. When Apple did it before, they hired the best folks in the business, and pushed the entire field of CPU emulation forward with their need to make it work. When Microsoft declined to do that, one guy on XDA took it upon himself, in his free time, with only a partial toolchain and no access to Windows internals, hacking on open-source pieces, and built a transparent emulation layer for RT. Microsoft's Windows application compatibility team almost certainly loses more man-hours in one day's bathroom breaks than @mamaich has been able to spend on that project to date, and yet some of those very same people who pushed the whole industry forward at Apple, doing things like inventing what is today called dynamic recompilation, now work at Microsoft. They have the expertise to make it work if they'd wanted to.
Fifth, Windows on Itanium failed (mostly; it's still being used, just not developed) because Itaniums were targeted specifically at the enterprise market but weren't very good even there; there's plenty of software for that instruction set in the aforementioned market. Alpha (never mind Windows on Alpha, which I actually know people who used and worked on) failed because DEC wanted outrageous sums of money for it, seeking high-end margins instead of embracing the commodity market. Had they done otherwise, they might even still exist as a company today. NT on MIPS and PPC was similarly niche, targeting brand new (and poorly-merketed) segments that didn't have great penetration in the ecosystem (NT for PPC was a server/workstation OS, not a MacOS alternative). Unlike all those achitectures, though, ARM is well established in the consumer market for commodity computers, and its market share there is growing. If Microsoft is serious about succeeding with RT (and I think they are), they should look at the success story in that market... and it's not Apple anymore. Despite Apple's huge first-mover advantage with the consumer market, Android is rolling over them. Yet Microsoft seems determined to repeat many of Apple's mistakes, despite having precious few of its advantages. They need to make themselves a better Android, not a me-too Apple clone.
Sixth, while Microsoft has made no secret of their desire to move to WinRT, I don't really forsee them having much more success with that than with their prior effort to move people to .NET; lots of small developers will go, but the big programs that are the movers and shakers of the Windows world will stick with the vastly more powerful, flexible, and (frankly) useful Win32 API. Porting an app to RT is a hell of a lot harder than porting x86 native code to ARM, though...

Windows Phone 10 is dead because Microsoft wanted that way

There is nobody responsible for Windows Phone 10 on Microsoft. The WP10 has been abandoned for 1 year and as you have seen by recent news and pages about WP10, it's pretty dead by now.
Nobody is fixing bugs not even critical bugs. They just want to have a great 3D experience with WP10. Oh come on Microsoft, really? 3D apps and the critical stuff dead or not working.
I think that the WP10 manager is just playing gold everyday and waiting for it to die. I don't know if it's Dona Sarkar or another person, but my opinion is that she is just a pretty face to keep everybody fooled about the destiny of the WP10 project. To die, because it's been on coma for a long time now. It's like a joke, but a sad one.
So, I'm out of Windows Insider Preview for Windows Phone 10 and reset the phone to have a working version.
I'm still on insider preview for Windows 10 desktop because this one is being taken seriously and it has been great reporting stuff and helping build the future of Windows. Desktop, not mobile.
Remember Nokia? It's back with Android and with amazing smartphones. Nokia 6 will sell like hot cakes and so Nokia 5 and 3. Also I'm buying the flagship Nokia 8 or 9. Yes, two Android Nokia.

find something interesting to do in life... who cares which phone you buy next... is your choice...

adevel said:
There is nobody responsible for Windows Phone 10 on Microsoft. The WP10 has been abandoned for 1 year and as you have seen by recent news and pages about WP10, it's pretty dead by now.
Nobody is fixing bugs not even critical bugs. They just want to have a great 3D experience with WP10. Oh come on Microsoft, really? 3D apps and the critical stuff dead or not working.
I think that the WP10 manager is just playing gold everyday and waiting for it to die. I don't know if it's Dona Sarkar or another person, but my opinion is that she is just a pretty face to keep everybody fooled about the destiny of the WP10 project. To die, because it's been on coma for a long time now. It's like a joke, but a sad one.
So, I'm out of Windows Insider Preview for Windows Phone 10 and reset the phone to have a working version.
I'm still on insider preview for Windows 10 desktop because this one is being taken seriously and it has been great reporting stuff and helping build the future of Windows. Desktop, not mobile.
Remember Nokia? It's back with Android and with amazing smartphones. Nokia 6 will sell like hot cakes and so Nokia 5 and 3. Also I'm buying the flagship Nokia 8 or 9. Yes, two Android Nokia.
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gooooo, bundyyyy!!!!!

Don't think so
I just joined about 2 weeks ago the windows 10 mobile family with a L640 DS. Let me tell you that it is very interesting, companies like gamelfot, for example, are not taking into account opinions like yours, they are still making apps for the system and very good ones. There are others that are developing apps that are exclusive for windows 10 M. I am coming from an Android device that had all the development in the world, you can look for it, Xiaomi Redmi 2 Prime and I just gave it to my wife. You would say, you missed it, or you are crazy, but in fact, will all the tweaks that I have found here in xda with advanced users help, I might say, not comming back to android any future soon. Yes, MS may have delays on fixing bugs or getting updates, but they still do it. For me, W10M is not dead, does not have a good position in market, it is true, but if you look at the good apps in the store, they sometimes have just 2 reviews, out of 1000 downloads. So you can ask.. is it really MS fault?? Or users fault?? W10 M have received 2 updates within the last month.. how many does android get?? 1 in.... IDK 1 year??? Be realistic of what you think and what you believe... and yes, android has still fragmentation even in 7.1.2.. It is just my opinion.. even if pages like wcentral or others try to kill the system, which as I have read, have been doing it for a while now, they have not been able to.. idk what is the bad thing that they turn around about it... just be happy.. if you will change devices.. it is ok.. everyone should be happy with what they have or what they want.. just do not try to let people think the same way than you do right now.. not every one needs to know when or why you change your device

adevel said:
Windows Phone 10 is dead because Microsoft wanted that way
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That is old news, and why Windows 10 Mobile is only current. Microsoft does not just do things for any reason. It is by plan. Now if that plan turns out to be bad, then it was still by design and plan that they do what they do. Like all things in life there is bad with good. I am not certain anyone knows the complete end goal for Microsoft or why they had to disappoint. I have hunch you have no clue either...
I am curious as to why did you post this here? There are many social media forums that you could get more discussion out of with topics like this.

Jemec26 said:
...There are others that are developing apps that are exclusive for windows 10 M.
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Name at least three
I use HP Elite x3 and totally love it, but I'm also capable of seeing the real world in which W10M is on deathbed

Nickolas_Shelomov said:
Name at least three
I use HP Elite x3 and totally love it, but I'm also capable of seeing the real world in which W10M is on deathbed
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Rudy Huyn is a big developer, Game troopers and I cannot recall several others developers that just work on that platform

Jemec26 said:
Rudy Huyn is a big developer, Game troopers and I cannot recall several others developers that just work on that platform
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Latest news that i got after searching "Rudy Huyn" are from 2015
Based on the info on their website,Game troopers released ONE game on W10M, so yeah ONE exclusive for os is really a significant amount

The new Nokia isn't like the old one at all. Those new phones they produced barely match the old Nokia phones quality. One thing I like about Nokia was its unrivaled PureView technology. But that technology belongs to Microsoft now and they've already killed Lumia. So, no more smartphone with exclusive camera technology unless they're willing to buy their old technologies back

The thing is though, is that Microsoft is so tight lipped about it all that we do not know and will not know till they say or show something for it. Andromeda devices are the future??? Who knows until Microsoft shows it...

nate0 said:
The thing is though, is that Microsoft is so tight lipped about it all that we do not know and will not know till they say or show something for it. Andromeda devices are the future??? Who knows until Microsoft shows it...
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my opinion is like that: if microsoft doesn't care bout their devices, why they forbid andromeda project? i mean, if they don't care(and it's quite obvious that this is the case), why not open up the source code so those, who DO care will make smth good for all w10m fans, like andromeda reborn or smth? Microsoft will lose nothing in such case, and i mean nothing. But this can potentially help them to get rid of remaining devices so they will return at least some of the spent money to use it in future projects + a lot of people would be grateful for such gesture.

windows phone never die ...
microsoft worked on it since 2003 and our problem its not new windows phone hardwares has stopped at 2011 by htc and started again with nokia windows 10 mobile has something android and ios cant have we can acces xbox store on w10 store . why microsoft is a lazy company ? he cant ban our access ?
do you thinked why microsoft bring appx for pc ? new generation of apps ? no its all for mobile we just need to wait for hardware transform(surface phone) ...
when it happens we can open pc appxs on mobile some good appx we can open by hardware transform (surface phone) :
roblox - kodi and many pc apps thats not available for us

Only time will tell at this point. I get tons more out of W10M then I do on Andoid device. And a heck of lot more out of a W10M phone than a iOS device, that is for sure.

nate0 said:
Only time will tell at this point. I get tons more out of W10M then I do on Andoid device. And a heck of lot more out of a W10M phone than a iOS device, that is for sure.
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Just curious, what do you "get out of W10M" that's not possible with Android?

Even though I can alter the system to the way I need I cannot say it offers everything but from the customizing standpoint it is close to what I get from an Android device minus the boot loader unlocking.
I guess I am picky on what I look for or how productive I am. There is simplicity in the UI with no clutter. Android is a busy OS, and easily out performs all others in the way of notifying you of everything. It sometimes can take more than 2 steps extra to do the same thing I would on a Windows 10M device. I cannot stand the Gboard or any other OEM VKB for that matter. I have always liked the Windows 8.0/10 Virtual Keyboard. I spend most my time on Email, the camera, messaging, and forum reading. I do all of those fluidly (for me) and quickly. On android it seems apps and OS developers are all veering down their own path. Some, apps follow a standard outline others don't. It could take me months of hunting for apps that all fit my day to day usage with out stumbling through each one each time I use them for it to be at par with how I use like an Elite X3 or 950 XL. But that is just me I suppose. I need no social apps, or special apps for doing what I want while away from my PC so I feel no app pressure from my end. On top of that newer apps are coming along slowly but surely. Plus it is a pc plus a phone in my hand if I use continuum. So without rambling on much more those are some ways.

nate0 said:
Even though I can alter the system to the way I need I cannot say it offers everything but from the customizing standpoint it is close to what I get from an Android device minus the boot loader unlocking.
I guess I am picky on what I look for or how productive I am. There is simplicity in the UI with no clutter. Android is a busy OS, and easily out performs all others in the way of notifying you of everything. It sometimes can take more than 2 steps extra to do the same thing I would on a Windows 10M device. I cannot stand the Gboard or any other OEM VKB for that matter. I have always liked the Windows 8.0/10 Virtual Keyboard. I spend most my time on Email, the camera, messaging, and forum reading. I do all of those fluidly (for me) and quickly. On android it seems apps and OS developers are all veering down their own path. Some, apps follow a standard outline others don't. It could take me months of hunting for apps that all fit my day to day usage with out stumbling through each one each time I use them for it to be at par with how I use like an Elite X3 or 950 XL. But that is just me I suppose. I need no social apps, or special apps for doing what I want while away from my PC so I feel no app pressure from my end. On top of that newer apps are coming along slowly but surely. Plus it is a pc plus a phone in my hand if I use continuum. So without rambling on much more those are some ways.
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Thanks for your opinions. I have used phones with Windows Phone / Windows Mobile as work phones since the very first "Pocket PC 2002" devices.
For private use I have Android.
I am trying really hard to like my 950 XL enough to keep using it as my work phone but I have finally give up and will replace it with an Android device. Mainly because I am a heavy MS user, and the MS echo system with Office apps, OneDrive, Outlook, To-Do etc. is so much better on Android. And there are so many things that worked well in WP8.1 that are worse on W10M. I loved the keyboard in WP8.1, in W10M it is not nearly as good.
I don't think it's fair to say that W10M in any way is close to Android when it comes to customization. How do you customize W10M to get night mode or to fix the broken bluetooth audio (since MS doesn't care about these)?
WP8.1 had a fast and fluid UI but W10M on my 950 XL feels slower then my Nexus 6P. There is irritating animations and waiting times everywhere and browsing the Store is so slow compared to Play Store on Android or the store on WP8.1. And multitasking is not working well at all.
The Microsoft Arrow launcher on Android is so much better then the W10M start screen. It gives you great overview from your Outlook calendar and mail and it's widgets are better in every way compared to the "live tiles". It has smart features and are customizable which lets you do tasks directly from the start screen instead of launching apps.
I use both devices daily and the only thing I like better on my 950 XL vs the Nexus 6P is the camera button. Otherwise I can't think of any task or anything that's faster/easier done on the 950 XL. The Edge web browser is clearly slower and more buggy compared to Chrome/Firefox. In general apps load slower and need reloading more often. Etc.
Even if I don't care about the apps (I use my Nexus 6P for apps) I sadly can't find any reason to keep using my 950 XL with it's abandoned OS. For the time being, Android is clearly the way to go if you want to use Microsoft's services in the best way.

dape16 said:
Thanks for your opinions. I have used phones with Windows Phone / Windows Mobile as work phones since the very first "Pocket PC 2002" devices.
For private use I have Android.
I am trying really hard to like my 950 XL enough to keep using it as my work phone but I have finally give up and will replace it with an Android device. Mainly because I am a heavy MS user, and the MS echo system with Office apps, OneDrive, Outlook, To-Do etc. is so much better on Android. And there are so many things that worked well in WP8.1 that are worse on W10M. I loved the keyboard in WP8.1, in W10M it is not nearly as good.
I don't think it's fair to say that W10M in any way is close to Android when it comes to customization. How do you customize W10M to get night mode or to fix the broken bluetooth audio (since MS doesn't care about these)?
WP8.1 had a fast and fluid UI but W10M on my 950 XL feels slower then my Nexus 6P. There is irritating animations and waiting times everywhere and browsing the Store is so slow compared to Play Store on Android or the store on WP8.1. And multitasking is not working well at all.
The Microsoft Arrow launcher on Android is so much better then the W10M start screen. It gives you great overview from your Outlook calendar and mail and it's widgets are better in every way compared to the "live tiles". It has smart features and are customizable which lets you do tasks directly from the start screen instead of launching apps.
I use both devices daily and the only thing I like better on my 950 XL vs the Nexus 6P is the camera button. Otherwise I can't think of any task or anything that's faster/easier done on the 950 XL. The Edge web browser is clearly slower and more buggy compared to Chrome/Firefox. In general apps load slower and need reloading more often. Etc.
Even if I don't care about the apps (I use my Nexus 6P for apps) I sadly can't find any reason to keep using my 950 XL with it's abandoned OS. For the time being, Android is clearly the way to go if you want to use Microsoft's services in the best way.
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To each his own. That is why there are choices...and why there are more than several other OS platforms to choose from for what we need.