Related
And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical. people argue against it because it doesn't have functions they don't use in practice but as excuses for various reasons.
For Example:
-Multitasking.
I may be a new WM user, I do use multitasking, but ONLY because applications in WM takes ages to load. Like EBPocket that I simply leave it running in the background all the time, because it takes like 2 minutes to load. IF it starts instantly, like iPhone apps, there is no reason for me to have it running in the background. At the end of the day, how often do you truly have to use multitasking? 2 other simple features will eliminate the need of multitasking almost completely: saving previous state before quitting and instant launch.
Plus, I think some obvious multitasking support exists in may devices, like music playback in the background. Maybe your third-party program won't work like that in WM7, but why do you need one anyway if the default one doesn't suck in the first place?
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close, they hurt my eyes.
respect to your efforts, but the facts are clear, you don't have what it takes to make a commercial and professional UI, Or you'd be making one right now.
Seriously, You can't make a nice UI with a few Photoshop Layer Styles, it takes a lot more than that. There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance. If you can make the Iphone UI as good as it is, and have all the new features you want, you might as well talk to Apple for a nice new job.
-Marketplace
So far, the only useful and working apps I have been able to find are:
Google Maps
EBPocket
Opera Mobile 10
Yea... that's about it.... and both of them are available on the iPhone.
Oh actually, I'm sorry. there are a huge number of other useful things, like file managers, registry tweakers, bug fixes abd ect....
But wait, why on earth should we use these anyway? Maybe it's cause most WM devices have problems and we have to fix them in place of the developers?
The WM systems to me, is just a big pile of mess. When I download a program, not only do I NOT know if it will work, I don't know if it is compatible with my other stuffs, I don't know what side effects it will have (which WM programs tend to have a lot), and I don't even know my device will boot after I install it.
The problem is clear, individual developers can't make quality apps in general. The variety in WM devices, versions, and simple difficulty in developing makes this worse. Most Apps are not finger friendly, they don't support large screen, they don't support gestures, and they mostly don't support anything but internet and the CPU itself.
So,do you have to do everything on your phone painfully. Or do you want to do the most common ones perfectly?
jacobgong said:
And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
jacobgong said:
people argue against it because it doesn't have functions they don't use in practice but as excuses for various reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you really enjoy talking out of your ass.
People use these functions. They really do. I'm sorry that you're such a brain-dead moron that you can't figure out how to get more out of your phone than the blatantly obvious, I really am, but just because you're a vegetable doesn't mean we all are.
jacobgong said:
-Multitasking.
I may be a new WM user, I do use multitasking, but ONLY because applications in WM takes ages to load. Like EBPocket that I simply leave it running in the background all the time, because it takes like 2 minutes to load. IF it starts instantly, like iPhone apps, there is no reason for me to have it running in the background. At the end of the day, how often do you truly have to use multitasking? 2 other simple features will eliminate the need of multitasking almost completely: saving previous state before quitting and instant launch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
jacobgong said:
Plus, I think some obvious multitasking support exists in may devices, like music playback in the background. Maybe your third-party program won't work like that in WM7, but why do you need one anyway if the default one doesn't suck in the first place?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you.
jacobgong said:
-Marketplace
So far, the only useful and working apps I have been able to find are:
Google Maps
EBPocket
Opera Mobile 10
Yea... that's about it.... and both of them are available on the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
jacobgong said:
Oh actually, I'm sorry. there are a huge number of other useful things, like file managers, registry tweakers, bug fixes abd ect....
But wait, why on earth should we use these anyway? Maybe it's cause most WM devices have problems and we have to fix them in place of the developers?
The WM systems to me, is just a big pile of mess. When I download a program, not only do I NOT know if it will work, I don't know if it is compatible with my other stuffs, I don't know what side effects it will have (which WM programs tend to have a lot), and I don't even know my device will boot after I install it.
The problem is clear, individual developers can't make quality apps in general. The variety in WM devices, versions, and simple difficulty in developing makes this worse. Most Apps are not finger friendly, they don't support large screen, they don't support gestures, and they mostly don't support anything but internet and the CPU itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
jacobgong said:
So,do you have to do everything on your phone painfully. Or do you want to do the most common ones perfectly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
both of yalls post were to long to read cuz its late, but im for wp7 also
wm7 is going to kill this community i think
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close, they hurt my eyes.
respect to your efforts, but the facts are clear, you don't have what it takes to make a commercial and professional UI, Or you'd be making one right now.
Seriously, You can't make a nice UI with a few Photoshop Layer Styles, it takes a lot more than that. There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance. If you can make the Iphone UI as good as it is, and have all the new features you want, you might as well talk to Apple for a nice new job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to interrupt.. but have you even heard of Max Manilla, Max Sense or TouchXprience?? if not I would be more than glad to direct you to their forums!!
I am looking forward to WP7
WP7 certainly looks like a lovely interface and i am quite excited about it. I have enjoyed my WM6.x phone over the last few years - but I will be happy to step into the more consumer focused model that Microsoft has put forward.
Fa7my said:
Sorry to interrupt.. but have you even heard glad to direct you to their forums!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, I have.
they may look fancy but they obviously lack a lot of polishing.
Spike15 said:
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
I guess you really enjoy talking out of your ass.
People use these functions. They really do. I'm sorry that you're such a brain-dead moron that you can't figure out how to get more out of your phone than the blatantly obvious, I really am, but just because you're a vegetable doesn't mean we all are.
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you.
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post kills, but much of it is true
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really, I never thought about governments and evil corporations or anything like that. It's your freedom if you think arguing about such things make you more free and intelligent.
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I know what Multitasking means, I run a quad-core 8-thread Intel Xeon desktop. I never said it's entirely not used, it's just really not that useful because even the example you gave me is a very rare case, which shows how often you really use it, not very.
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what made WM6.5 fail, thinking a phone OS is the same as a Desktop OS. it's not. the Phone is an appliance, not a general purpose electronic computer.
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realize that "except" will be impossible, but I don't need it to be possible because the WM7 UI is a lot better than anything we've ever had. if nobody was able to make anything close to it, I don't expect anything better to be made any time soon.
and you are free to show me which of you freedom tweakers have made anything better than the HTC Sence/iPhone OS/HTC Android triple screen UI.
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do I really care? the fact is the iPhone Safari browser browses the web better than a freakin netbook, it's a lot more fluid with multi-touch zoom and all that. Unlike Opera 10 on WM lags all the time and shows blanks when you zoom and pan.
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you didn't know, writing programs before the existence of operating systems was a pain in the ass, cause you can't use languages like C
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the FaceBook app is there, because it makes it easier to access Facebook. If I try to access it with the web browser not only is it slow, laggy, power intensive. it's not optimized for finger use.
It's people like you who made the WM6.5 stylus and big battery a necessity.
as for the file syncing thing, yea I hate to have a syncing software like iTunes or whatever, I will hope it still works like thumbdrive drag and drop.
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opera 10 is no longer BETA, and nothing changed. you can keep dreaming about an iPhone Safari level browser.
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customization doesn't just have to do with looking good.
As you say...
There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customization allows the user to make this trade off, and choose for example a more functional user interface that impressionable consumers would find less attractive.
jacobgong you are obviously an iPhone fan, ie. you belong to the market share (iphone users) to which microsoft is focusing on with WP7.
Welcome to the microsoft world! So glad they managed to grab you! This means their strategy is actually working!
I am also for WP7. Who would say no to a silverlight/xna based GUI for our beloved WM OS? No multitasking/No Copy-paste etc. only applies to the GUI and the apps written for it.
This is actually a merge of worlds. MS is going to give us developers an opportunity to create apps for ex-iphone users like my friend jacobgong, if they manage to grab that share... And as I can see, they are already doing great!
This is good news.
jacobgong said:
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close
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Click to collapse
LOL
This said after "And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical."
LOL!!!
You made my day, man. As a nerd who lives for customization and for what we "can" do rather than what the unwashed masses "do" do (hurhur, doodoo), I died a little bit inside. XD Let my phone look like it's from the '70s! More nerd points! It can do a heck of a lot more than yours (okay, I have no idea what you use), and that's all that matters to me. Cool, eh? At least it's more "practical" than your line of reasoning!
Spike15, well said. Making masses into vegetables. As i see it, Queen gave masses high school education, enough earnings to have a holiday in Spain, buy few pints on the weekend and go to a football match, beyond that nobody as of vegetable masses likes Mr. jacobgong dont know where is Russia to say the least
jacobgong said:
Opera 10 is no longer BETA, and nothing changed. you can keep dreaming about an iPhone Safari level browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well and your dream will be to get Adobe Flash support on the iPhone, which will never happen. And a browser without flash is just 50%. So you are forced to use a crappy app for youtube etc. And for you to know: your such beloved Safari browser is insecure as hell. Just google "Safari vulnerabilities" and you will see. So go away and shove that ugly thing up your arse.
hi all members i very like it on this forums
I am also for WP7. Who would say no to a silverlight/xna based GUI for our beloved WM OS? No multitasking/No Copy-paste etc. only applies to the GUI and the apps written for it.
http://m.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/apple-granted-patent-on-using-apps-during-calls/17407
Title says it all. This is getting out of control.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
The people I'm upset are are the idiots granting the patents
Something I've been able to do since I've had the blackberry.
All this **** they are patenting is so trivial to technology that I think other companies never bothered. Soon enough they will patent pooping with a smart phone and we'll all be doomed.
Other articles clearly state it's the exact arrangement of techniques and interface that would be defensible, not merely multitasking. Someone would have to copy pretty much the exact full layout and procedure for it, not merely multitasking. Not reason to get worried beyond Apple likely going after anyone who's copied their interface too tightly. So outside of maybe Meizu, no major worries.
It's frigging ridiculous with all these companies suing each other. Half the time they are partners anyway-for example, Samsung supplies chips for the ipad-so I think a lot of this is driven by lawyers, who are the only ones who always win regardless of how the rulings go.
So yet again Apple takes something everyone has been doing for a long time and slaps a patent on it.
Hold down something to bring up a menu, select the program/function, switch. Repeat to return to previous or different program.
Everybody take a deep breath this isn't what you think it is...
It is actually for changing the interface of the app you are using while in a call (adding a notification bar at the top), not just changing to an app while in a call.
From what I understand is that Android doesn't have to even think about this since you can see the notification bar almost all the time and is a part of the OS no the App anyway and that's what Android generally uses.
Really what Apple patented it was the ability to screw with an app's interface while on a call.
lifyre said:
Everybody take a deep breath this isn't what you think it is...
Really what Apple patented it was the ability to screw with an app's interface while on a call.
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Click to collapse
Exactly, from the article:
"modifying the corresponding application user interface to include a switch application icon that is not displayed in the corresponding application user interface when there is no ongoing phone call"
Either display the switch icon outside of the second UI or have the second UI include the switch icon all the time - at least two ways to design around this patent, and as others have said unless the interface is copied exactly, there shouldn't be any issues... I hate it when articles summarize an issued patent using the broadest interpretation possible based on some part of the title...
I like to browse or use apps while on a call, by simply hitting the home button. Apple is specifically doing this to go after android and the companies who make android phones. We should be worried and oppose.
phatmanxxl said:
I like to browse or use apps while on a call, by simply hitting the home button. Apple is specifically doing this to go after android and the companies who make android phones. We should be worried and oppose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that were the case, their patent would reflect that. It doesn't. It's nothing like how Android does it.
Just like the patent they got on being able to tap on a phone number from an email message and dial it. I was able to do that with my Treo well before the iPhone was even a glimmer in Steve's eyes.
It's just stupid they are getting these. I thought any prior work voids these things?
They call this one the 'we finally figured out how to do this too!' patent.
Time for google go bust out some moto patents and force apple to remove cellphone functionality from the iphone.
'youre a barista... you bariste for a living...' love that commercial...
If it's that easy to get patents, maybe Google should play Apples silly game and put a patent on answering the phone.
Like I said innoff topic, its like Coke suing Pepsi for using carbonated water, and Coke winning. When carbonated drinks were around before both products were ever produced. Epic fail with this patent system. Its lost its purpose.
When the patent office has a display honoring Steve Jobs, obviously impartiality does not exist.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Good one! But true! Im losing respect for apple in general. They arent really all that innovative. They're kinda like P Diddy, they just remix tech instead of creating new!
Sent from my MB855 using XDA Premium App
NickDG said:
Just like the patent they got on being able to tap on a phone number from an email message and dial it. I was able to do that with my Treo well before the iPhone was even a glimmer in Steve's eyes.
It's just stupid they are getting these. I thought any prior work voids these things?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The patent in question was filed by Apple in 1996, before your Treo was a glimmer in Handspring's eyes. I made the same point you did elsewhere and got corrected. The patent's age makes it valid, but others have pointed out it should still count as an obvious function.
Apple so badly wants to be the best they're trying to cripple the competition. Apple and the fanboys claim to be "best in the world", but they're trying to be #1 by default instead of #1 by design. If you're the best prove it, don't cry to the teacher saying that someone else is stealing your science project. Buncha damn crybaby apple fanboys. I still think it's funny that they're not messing with google, just the hardware manufacturers.
I still don't understand why apple is getting away with the drop down notification, clearly an android feature. Im afraid that Apple might try and patent that as well if Google sits on their hands.
phatmanxxl said:
I still don't understand why apple is getting away with the drop down notification, clearly an android feature. Im afraid that Apple might try and patent that as well if Google sits on their hands.
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Click to collapse
Can Google even patent an open source project. Google has open sourced Android, Apple could literally rip off the whole OS.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?
lapucele said:
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James
Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.
lapucele said:
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just thought I'd mention as I only heard yesterday, but the newest edition of the app store for Apple is called AppCake for Apple. Apparently Apple is now going about systematically shutting down every 3rd party non-apple owned store including the non so legitimate suppliers of of Apple after market hardware products. That means everyone with anything that connects to an apple product that isn't apple or made by apple is a target. Geeese they don't let up do they? Developers mention that Apple will never be able to shut them down :silly: that they can and will do what they like with their iDevices cause they own them.
Oh and other thing to look out for if you go to Apple/iTunes, is this company Lodsys who are world renowned for being patent trolls who are systematically targeting individual developers for breaches in copy right for, get this......'in app purchasing' they claim that they invented it and are now suing several developers from iTunes (them personally) for using the iTunes supplied SDK for in app purchasing. Apple is doing the right thing and trying to defend these developers but the World IP org and US patents office can't do a god damned thing about it until things hurry up and get pushed through a ballot of senators to have groups like them shut down. Until then they are working their best and fastest with trying to sue as many people as they can! Unfortunately for most its a loosing battle as they don't have the money or resources to fight these bastards so they end up paying up. In an new interview I heard one company claimed it was cheeper to settle for 100K out of court than what it was to commit to defending them selves even though this group targeting them was 100% wrong.
But not meaning to scare you...or anything just keeping you filled in. Me personally I would write them a letter saying 4 words on one line followed by 4 words on a second line "Go f*%# your self" "See you in court" and go seek one of my dad's barrister friends to do it no win no fee. Screw that. I would be flaunting that I have in app purchasing sayin come at me bro
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/04/app-developers-lodsys-back
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/hey-patent-trolls-pick-someone-your-own-size
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/...t-patent-trolls-and-not-going-take-it-anymore
Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.
out of ideas said:
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Research and Understanding
Yes that is exactly what I am saying. To run Apple in a VM is in breach of their TOS and Usage policy. It also entitles them to seek prosecution also; so not just a ban from iTunes. Going by Apples past history I wouldn't put it past them? Although now with Tim Cook in charge of things I think Apple is going about things a bit more differently now? For better or worse (people had their opinions of Steve Jobs - personally I disliked him but did appreciate his success and achievements for what they stacked up to be, personal opinions aside it takes a great person to do such) Apple is starting to become a bit more valued in collaborations as this is what Tim Cook always wanted working for Apple that he was never able to have whilst Steve was the master of the helm. Tim Cook was more about getting the job done and sharing. Steve's ongoing vendetta litigations were not Tim Cooks choice and/or advice. He didn't want such things from what I have read? More recently his involvement in legal matters has been observed as retracted and no confronting; he has proceeded to do these actions as part of Steve Jobs dying wishes and nothing more.
As far as I can tell he wants to nothing more than to get things out of the way and over and done with so that he and his company can move on.
My thoughts on this as an observer in the mobile tech industry is that I think Apple has dropped the ball a bit, and it is probably far too little far too late. However with a company with that much money behind it? There's only speculations about what holds in the future of Apple? They are certainly not going away or going to fall in to ruins that's for certain.
What I mean is that, yes there has been a heap of legal stuff seen by Apple and most of it very negative, but my feeling is that this won't be the case here on into the future, so the likelihood of facing a court for breach of Terms of Use are likely to be very small. I am sure that editing a build.prop is considered a breach of Google's TOS for use of a device in their Playstore?
Suggestions
My suggestion is to give it a try I have had some issues setting up my VM but have got all the necessary resources including all the software. I have just become too busy and it is not high on the priority list at the moment. I wanted to try gain an understanding of how Apple detects it's visitors. I mean iTunes is cross platform Windows and Mac (There is no release for Ubuntu or Linux AFAIK? only Wine type hacks) I know when I visit the iTunes webpage I am automatically prompted to download a Windows installer package. So they must have some form of automatic detection? Being that the likes of Virtualbox uses a shared internet connection I would speculate that you would need to choose the correct adapter settings so that your VM is seen to be a running physical machine and not a able to be identified as a shared connection or virtualised connection?
I didn't get this far as my installation has many issues. I still have the VM though for future interest. Feel free to PM me if you give it a try and don't succeed and I am happy to share what things I discovered in my problem solving.
Understanding Limitations for Cross Platform Mobile Development
As for the porting to OS's I believe there are many offerings around now that provide developers with a cross platform arrangement. Essentially only the UI resources need to change and then that plugs into a framework structure for your application to run in. You compile the code individual applications that are specific to the platform but you ARE able to develop your main code independent of the platforms. Languages such as Flex or Rubi on rails are going to be your best bet from my research?
Things You Should Consider
1. Single code repository
2. Individual application frameworks - compilation of application runtime for independent OS type
3. Limitations are stipulated and governed by what is allow at the lowest possible denominator. i.e. You can only build code into your single code repository that can accessed by the functionality of both(or all) platforms. What I mean is that there is no use building a single code repository that uses a function that is limited on one platform and not the other, another example is restrictions dictated to you by the likes of such companies like Apple. They have a strict guidelines and what is potentially available to you may not be in its context. Just because certain functionality is available to you in the Apple platform and you have even seen it in use on Apple devices does not necessarily mean that you can build and release it. In it's context Apple may not like what you are doing with your app and not approve it.
Your single point of code and it entirety has just shrunk in functionality to both devices now. So be careful and Anticipate what you might think the outcome is for your Application facing such scrutinisation and what it could possibly mean for your project as a whole?
On this note I have heard of developers making scripts and add-ons for their said central repository that allows them to restrict things ats compile time. For instance having greyed out selections in menus and a toast like notification to users like "Sorry this functionality is only available to Android users" and things like that.
Hope this helps contribute towards people considering on such ventures. Do your research. Find out what types of apps have been rejected from being published and find the reasons for why?
lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will check it in next week
I'm Curious....I have a Fire TV with Kodi and love it. Thinking of getting another…BUT can/will Amazon send out an update that will stop a Kodi from functioning on a Fire TV Box?? Don't want to waste money on another if it's destined to fail.
Thanks
I'm curious about this as well. It kind of boggles my mind that a simple exploit can give you access to everything.
If you are not rooted, Amazon can do whatever they want with firmware updates. It is their ecosystem. However, as long as they allow sideloaded applications (which if they want development of apps, they have to allow) Kodi can continue to be sideloaded.
That said, what "exploit" is the previous poster referring to?
Yes they can.. Would they. highly unlikely..
Lots of people asking this question now that kodi has been removed from app store. I actually understand amazon removing the app (don't like it) but it makes sense. They do after all, sell media and having that app in their store is a little like Starbucks advertising the special deals Dunkin Donuts is currently offering. But most people who know better than I do don't think you need to worry about kodi no longer working.
Btw--Ive never been clear about the rules regarding android. Its basically Linux which has always been open source. From what I gather that means you can modify it however you like but you need to leave it open. The word "open" must be interpreted very liberally because when you look at AFTV it runs android but it seems pretty well locked down to me. But I can't really comment on it. If anyone can share some good info on the legal reasons behind it, please do so.
It seems to me the vast innovation here was started by the public. And technology in general is a government subsidized industry. The pentagon uses tax dollars usually in the name of "security" and over decades develop things that go from very undesirable even by big business then get polished up and made into consumer products. Often times its just handed over to big business. This isn't really a commentary on capitalism. Im just taking a look at how we get from the public funding and/or the public actively developing tech to the point where people here can't even mess around with a product they paid for? I don't know that it makes sense but you certainly can argue its profoundly unfair.
Thank you for all the answers and im sorry for what I have caused!!! I love the Fire TV... I don't personally care if its Android 4, 4.4 etc.. As long as it works for Kodi im happy!
Ok everyone,
Thread cleaned....
As you all can see almost all posts have been removed. The OP asked a rather simple question. It wasn't an open invitation to rant and rave about assorted topics ranging from Kodi to your displeasure with xda-developers.com and what you think this website is personally not doing for you. In addition to all kinds of other off-topic nonsense. Also, it's still a mystery why some people can't have a discussion without it turning into personal attacks and flaming. Some of the posts removed were downright awful and disgusting.
This isn't the streets. This is a private website where rules and respect for one another apply. If any of you have trouble following the rules as they were laid out here, please find a new website to frequent.
Regards...
I've posted a response here after the fact - that mentioned again, that the moderators here are also cleaning any evidence of a political standing against the crisis facilitated by Amazons move, to retract the most frequently used open source media player from their store and engaging in a smear campaign against "ownership of device" interests. Which translates to - users rights to use a file player on a device they own. And in this process harmed my standing more than any of the slanderous comments that spiraled out of control here before.
The response got deleted subsequently, without any indication or even a comment as to why.
The political statement, I'd like to repeat, was -
Amazon crossed a line here. The company violated the trust relationship they had established in regards to their early adopters. They used their monopoly on distribution within their device infrastructure to remove a legal competitor and started a public smear campaign against him, based on a lie. Use and even heavily (ab)use the Fire TV you have already bought, if you have to, but stop recommending it to your peers and parents. There are cheaper, more up to date, more potent TV boxes on the horizon ( http://goo.gl/z1n9fj ), from companies that arent primarily interested in making this a fight about licensing and subscription models, chained to the hardware itself. Following a standing, where no user should be allowed to use a media player on a device they have bought from them anymore.
Amazons anti competitive move came unprovoked and is aimed at removing common ground between users of their product and company interests. They changed their position, it is time to change yours.
Background information can be found here: http://www.aftvnews.com/amazon-apps...piracy-while-google-play-store-approves-kodi/
Please do not censor political speech. The original post had more room for positional nuance and argumental flashing out of positions, and frankly was a better posting - this one is more concise.
When people are reduced to a state of waiting and worrying - structurally this cant be accepted as normal.
https://kateheddleston.com/blog/how-our-engineering-environments-are-killing-diversity-introduction
@harlekinrains: return your device and go away if you hate it that much
That way nothing could be learned from it. You dont hate the product. You hate the entity that killed of the common ground principle and mounted a campaign against the normal use of open source video player software on their device.
This is a pivotal moment. We have to be able to talk about it.
Oh get off it. This is not a pivotal moment for anything. You are straight up delusional.
You are wrong. I'll explain again.
The company just killed off the only remaining public sign, that they honor the silent agreement, that users have to be able to use video player software on the device, by banning the most commonly used open source media center from their entire distrubution infrastructure. And moreso - openly declaring it illegal, on their grounds, without giving any explanations.
Remember there is no independent judicial system to aid the consumer in the case of this being anti competitive behavior.
In technology and business relations, we refer to those important public facing signs as "canaries in the colemine". Killing them is considered to be an aggressive act, because you are eliminating the signs of there being a common interest you, as the company, care to honor as well.
Thats what activates people like me.
Because the issue we suddenly are facing is, that we do not get any more public indications of policy changes, before they can go into effect.
If you proclaim "Amazon will still honor other agreements, because they really have to...." you are proclaiming this, totally blind and only out of trust. This is what characterizes a dependency.
Remember - Amazon themselves didnt allow for Kodi to be installed on the Fire TV through their infrastructure. This already wasnt normal as far as Android distribution agreements are concerned. What they did now is to publicly position themselves against it (the most commonly used open source media player software out there).
Now you get these threads popping up with people being more and more uncertain, because they are confronted with conflicting proposals what they should be allowed to use on hardware they bought. This is a new and recent development, which is why we have to talk about it now.
And the way to address it, is not to calm them down - but to explain to them, that all bets are off, and we simply dont know anymore if, or when Amazon will retaliate further.
Because there is no public sign of mutual recognition left and their last move already was unprecedented, and hostile - and was executed without any prior provocation.
You can see that something is very "off", by the fact that even the companies "product bloggers" are taking an open stance against this move.
It is my opinion that whoever removed the Kodi app didn't understand the purpose. And Amazon will go the way of reinstating it (vs. removing every other media app that can play an internet link) once there is enough feedback and it gets the attention of a manager somewhere.
It is also my opinion that you are delusional in the depth of your concern over this app removal and the FireTV in general. There are far more concerning issues in life to be angry about. A media streaming device is not worth your emotions. Which is why this is the most I have ever, and will ever write about this. I am here to help contribute by answering questions and learn from the developers. You made a great contribution in one of your posts. You are obviously capable. Stick to that and check your soapbox at the door.
There are lots of other hardware options out there to put Kodi on, there always will be. There are many other media center applications on the Amazon app store. Nothing is "pivotal" about Kodi not being listed now. I put my money where I want. No one is forcing me to do anything. So no, I am not wrong. Because it is my opinion and choice. Nothing you can say will change my opinion on this. Especially coming from you.
Lastly, I assume this will all get deleted again and I hope so. This has nothing to do with the question from the OP. Kodi was never even a compatible app for the FireTV in the App Store. It always had to be sideloaded. So Amazon has changed nothing regarding the usage on the FireTV. And they won't be doing anything further in the future to stop it from being sideloaded either.
Edit: Don't reply to me. I am not going to respond to you. You keep editing your prior post over and over. You are obviously too emotional about this topic and I don't engage with people that are crazy.
You might be right.
But I dont care about opinions (*hm* double entendre.. ), I need coverage. And we are starting to get it right now.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/17/bezos_bozos_swing_ban_hammer_at_media_player/
@aftvnews, we still might need you later. Start thinking allegiances.
I take internet/consumer rights VERY seriously but its hard to get worked up here. I was sort of annoyed by the abrupt tone of the note amazon sent to team kodi but this changes almost nothing for aftv. Maybe some tablet or fire phone users are upset?
Imho this is team kodi's fight. And i would support them if they choose to better educate amazon.
Thread closed.
Certain people or particular person can't seem to stop with the long-winded rants (spam). Please either take your grievances to Amazon.com or Google+. No one here can provide you with the "help" that you need.
Regards...
Let me start by stating that this is not an app request!!!
I just want to know if anybody has this port working on a fire tv stick 4k, and if so, then how did you compile it? On the stick itself?
I've compiled it for my linux pc and on my phone and am loving it, but the tv is where this game belongs.
For those unaware,
https://github.com/VDavid003/sm64-port-android/tree/master
https://github.com/VDavid003/sm64AndroidBuilder
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ffJ8Gs50UkM
redminote8txda said:
Let me start by stating that this is not an app request!!!
I just want to know if anybody has this port working on a fire tv stick 4k, and if so, then how did you compile it? On the stick itself?
I've compiled it for my linux pc and on my phone and am loving it, but the tv is where this game belongs.
For those unaware,
https://github.com/VDavid003/sm64-port-android/tree/master
https://github.com/VDavid003/sm64AndroidBuilder
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ffJ8Gs50UkM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just use an n64 emulator. It'll work.
dladz said:
Just use an n64 emulator. It'll work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rather have it native. Widescreen.
TimmyP said:
Rather have it native. Widescreen.
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Hmmm I'd rather have it in 4K with upscaled graphics with a proper controller.
Which is what emulation allows...
Lol how do you think the app works?? It's an emulator locked down, they're probably making money from from ads off the back of someone else's work done on an emulator and a game that's clearly copyright material, lol.
In short to answer your question : I wouldn't use a single game emulator when I can have a better experience with an emulator.
TimmyP said:
LOL. It is a NATIVE PORT. The code for the ACTUAL GAME was decompiled.
.
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That's not how it works and yes it is against copyright to copy ANY Nintendo game..
This also shouldn't be in the fire TV stick section as this is to do with hacking and apps, not fire TV .
You can't talk to people like this on XDA either.
Your post has been reported.
THREAD CLEANED
@TimmyP
Please check your PM!
So now let's get back to a non-violent communication, shall we?!
Cheers,
mrjuniork (Forum Moderator)
Sorry, it was kinda patronizing.
Mario64 has been decompiled in secret by brute force methods, and is natively available for all platforms. Some hacking group did this, most likely because they knew Nintendo was, yet again, reselling roms.
And to that other newb? Yeah, thats how it works. Go ahead and report that Gladz. Idgaf.
There are Windows, Android, Linux, IOS, Switch, etc ports.
To OP: Yes, the Android build runs on my FS4k.
And here ya go: A whole subreddit dedicated to Mario64 PC port:
https://old.reddit.com/r/mario64pcport/
Sorry I insulted you Gladz. Doesnt make you any less incorrect. This completely destroys emulation.
My game is seamlessly modded and has graphics comparable to SMG in 4k. All coins are in 3d. Trees in 3d. All character models are smooth and updated. Textures enhanced with neural networks. Makes what just came to Switch seem laughable by comparison.
Here is my old cleaned post XDA!
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LOL. It is a NATIVE PORT. The code for the ACTUAL GAME was decompiled.
You can use supermario64pcbuilder and compile a Windows port and it pulls it straight from github, as long as you have a legal rom and own the game.
If fully supports xbox 360 controllers, 4k, widescreen, different camera controls, texture packs, new models, new animations... AND ITS ALL NATIVE!
So let me ask you... How do YOU THINK IT WORKS? ...
PS: Ill clarify... This is a ONE TIME DEAL that is FAR BETTER than emulation. Super Mario 64... is on PC! (and Android and IOS and Switch(this version))
...
...
Double PS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMbm-qOCZdI
Mods for the NATIVE PC VERSION OF MARIO 64.
mod edit
dladz said:
That's not how it works and yes it is against copyright to copy ANY Nintendo game..
This also shouldn't be in the fire TV stick section as this is to do with hacking and apps, not fire TV .
You can't talk to people like this on XDA either.
Your post has been reported.
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LOL ?... Yea it is sorta unheard of, getting or decompiling the entire source of a commercial game besides something like Doom, but yea it would be wise to actually follow the links and check things out before attacking someone. Sorta the purpose of github anyways.. people don't throw up compiled code - and among devs it is very frowned upon to either steal code, invalidate licenses or add ads. There wouldn't be much tolerance for any of that behavior on github. If someone forks a project or steals code without properly staying within bounds of the license then I imagine it would be pretty easy to get that taken care of - at least on github.
Also from what I have heard, the original source code of mario 64 was leaked, BUT like what @TimmyP was saying this is a full decompile of the source code and took probably several contributors a VERY long time to go through and cleanup and make it recompile. They also DO NOT distribute any of the asset files that are not actual code, so as far as the legalities of it.. it would appear they are in the clear and how you obtain image, and audio assets is none of their business.
(lets just hope they are secretly working on OOT, because what 2 games could you possibly want native code to? These would probably be my top 2 choices, and we got one already)
glitchbit said:
LOL ?... Yea it is sorta unheard of, getting or decompiling the entire source of a commercial game besides something like Doom, but yea it would be wise to actually follow the links and check things out before attacking someone. Sorta the purpose of github anyways.. people don't throw up compiled code - and among devs it is very frowned upon to either steal code, invalidate licenses or add ads. There wouldn't be much tolerance for any of that behavior on github. If someone forks a project or steals code without properly staying within bounds of the license then I imagine it would be pretty easy to get that taken care of - at least on github.
Also from what I have heard, the original source code of mario 64 was leaked, BUT like what @TimmyP was saying this is a full decompile of the source code and took probably several contributors a VERY long time to go through and cleanup and make it recompile. They also DO NOT distribute any of the asset files that are not actual code, so as far as the legalities of it.. it would appear they are in the clear and how you obtain image, and audio assets is none of their business.
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Right ok, I did have a look and I am a gamer so yes having a game ported is great on all sides..
So to be clear, this ROM would be natively running on android? Great.. so no emulation, no other encoded system, just android?
Clever what they've done with the ROM insertion, as that would be copyright infringement.
Nintendo don't allow copies even if you own the original.. which sucks and I'm not sure how that's legal but it's Nintendo, so much doesn't make sense with them.
It was ported to pc first and since then you've been able to compile it for a lot of devices, some are reporting that this port works better native on the switch than the official Nintendo release.
The port itself is not piracy, compiling for android is not piracy, sharing a finished apk would be piracy
This port is awesome on so many levels, one of them is the possibility of mods, and there are already a good number of mods available.
So back to my original question, anyone got this working on a fire tv stick 4k? @TimmyP you say :"To OP: Yes, the Android build runs on my FS4k." So how did you get it to work? Did you compile on the stick?
dladz said:
Right ok, I did have a look and I am a gamer so yes having a game ported is great on all sides..
So to be clear, this ROM would be natively running on android? Great.. so no emulation, no other encoded system, just android?
Clever what they've done with the ROM insertion, as that would be copyright infringement.
Nintendo don't allow copies even if you own the original.. which sucks and I'm not sure how that's legal but it's Nintendo, so much doesn't make sense with them.
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It may be a gray area, but you really can't say it is illegal. Of course Nintendo would contend otherwise and at times it is necessary for companies to take things to court just to ensure their copyrights remain valid - regardless of what the judgement or out come may be. Think Xerox vs copying machine. Regardless if you have the ability to replicate something for your personal use then that's been fairly well upheld in courts, VCR, VHS, DVRs - it's not illegal to make a copy, but distribution or mass distribution certainly.
Where this gets murky is that they are not redistributing the finalized rom, nor any of its assets. They are not even sharing the original variable names of the various functions (beyond coincidence). The only literal thing they are redistributing are the binary numbers and similar logic - but even that may differ some since this is a decompile - not the original source and who really know how it comes back out after the original code was written. Compilers create all sorts of optimizations and I would assume some of that may actually be dumped back out into the decompile as it will not possibly be a perfect replica.
Regardless of the fact that the source code may differ the final product does come out to be the same - but again - that is only the case with the proper assets and audio and in all reality someone could literally create replacements for all of those things and you could end up with a final product that has no clearly copyrighted material in it at all.
All I am saying is it doesn't really matter how much you think this is or isn't legal - the way the team has gone about this has not been blatantly or obviously illegal nor the way they have released it. We could even get into conversations about IBM v Compaq too, and again there were and are ways to recreate somethings without it being illegal. It's at the very least a gray area, but you really can't say much more than that.
glitchbit said:
It may be a gray area, but you really can't say it is illegal. Of course Nintendo would contend otherwise and at times it is necessary for companies to take things to court just to ensure their copyrights remain valid - regardless of what the judgement or out come may be. Think Xerox vs copying machine. Regardless if you have the ability to replicate something for your personal use then that's been fairly well upheld in courts, VCR, VHS, DVRs - it's not illegal to make a copy, but distribution or mass distribution certainly.
Where this gets murky is that they are not redistributing the finalized rom, nor any of its assets. They are not even sharing the original variable names of the various functions (beyond coincidence). The only literal thing they are redistributing are the binary numbers and similar logic - but even that may differ some since this is a decompile - not the original source and who really know how it comes back out after the original code was written. Compilers create all sorts of optimizations and I would assume some of that may actually be dumped back out into the decompile as it will not possibly be a perfect replica.
Regardless of the fact that the source code may differ the final product does come out to be the same - but again - that is only the case with the proper assets and audio and in all reality someone could literally create replacements for all of those things and you could end up with a final product that has no clearly copyrighted material in it at all.
All I am saying is it doesn't really matter how much you think this is or isn't legal - the way the team has gone about this has not been blatantly or obviously illegal nor the way they have released it. We could even get into conversations about IBM v Compaq too, and again there were and are ways to recreate somethings without it being illegal. It's at the very least a gray area, but you really can't say much more than that.
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Yea it's not what I think! Nothing to do with me at all..Nintendo are quite unique in what they state in their copyright terms..
As I've said before. I am a gamer and I do like emulation, I've used literally every single console/ computer out there and my computing history goes back to the early 80s so I know a thing or two about it.
You might want to have a read of this..like I said not me, this is nintendo.
Source: https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp
"Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?
There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet."
Nintendo's lawyers have already attacked videos of Mario 64 and websites for downloads.
So yep, this isn't my opinion dude. This is Nintendo's.
All I'm saying is be careful what you're doing here, merely talking about getting Mario working on a device would be enough for XDA to get some lawyers contacting them.
You do what you will, that's the last I'll say on the matter, I'm not a mod so it's not my responsibility.
On a personal note, I bought Mario 64 back when it was released and completed it up to Yoshi on the roof, it's a good game..and I like the idea of a native android version, I can just understand their legal standpoint, regardless if you have not distributed the game, the process available Nintendo will see as an infringement.
As per your second to last paragraph, if it's running Mario or anything similar, then infringement avoidance is impossible..
Essentially the problem is intent.
I disagree with it. But Nintendo's stance is plain as day,, read the content
dladz said:
Yea it's not what I think! Nothing to do with me at all..Nintendo are quite unique in what they state in their copyright terms..
Source: https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp
"Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?
There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet."
Nintendo's lawyers have already attacked videos of Mario 64 and websites for downloads.
So yep, this isn't my opinion dude. This is Nintendo's.
All I'm saying is be careful what you're doing here, merely talking about getting Mario working on a device would be enough for XDA to get some lawyers contacting them.
You do what you will, that's the last I'll say on the matter, I'm not a mod so it's not my responsibility.
As per your second to last paragraph, if it's running Mario or anything similar, then infringement avoidance is impossible..
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Removed a few bits as there's a lot that wasn't really addressable. We're talking about the same company that said renting their video games was and should be illegal and fought it in court. Wouldn't allow instruction manuals to be included with copies the rental store owned (copy or original). They also tried to be the only supplier for chips of cartridges and forcing publishers to gamble with a minimum order of 10,000 cartridges for their new game - no wonder you had 3rd parties hacking their way around it and making their own cartridges.
There's law, agreements and what's enforceable - and many companies have a lot of things in their agreements that are not remotely enforceable or following any existing or future law. A company can say a pear is an orange in their agreement if they want to, but it doesn't make it true, nor the person that has to "agree" to it to believe it either.
XDA is safe as long as they do not link to or promote stolen content - the site isn't going to get contacted by Nintendo or Microsoft for linking to an incomplete re-implementation of Mario 64 any more than Microsoft can go after XDA for linking to ReactOS because they re-implemented particular APIs.. Hell Oracle tried going after Goolge too and failed - fortunately one of the judges took an actual programming course and learned what APIs meant and were so he could properly rule in Google's favor at the end of the day. Granted many judges would have likely not bothered like he did.
glitchbit said:
Removed a few bits as there's a lot that wasn't really addressable. We're talking about the same company that said renting their video games was and should be illegal and fought it in court. Wouldn't allow instruction manuals to be included with copies the rental store owned (copy or original). They also tried to be the only supplier for chips of cartridges and forcing publishers to gamble with a minimum order of 10,000 cartridges for their new game - no wonder you had 3rd parties hacking their way around it and making their own cartridges.
There's law, agreements and what's enforceable - and many companies have a lot of things in their agreements that are not remotely enforceable or following any existing or future law. A company can say a pear is an orange in their agreement if they want to, but it doesn't make it true, nor the person that has to "agree" to it to believe it either.
XDA is safe as long as they do not link to or promote stolen content - the site isn't going to get contacted by Nintendo or Microsoft for linking to an incomplete re-implementation of Mario 64 any more than Microsoft can go after XDA for linking to ReactOS because they re-implemented particular APIs.. Hell Oracle tried going after Goolge too and failed - fortunately one of the judges took an actual programming course and learned what APIs meant and were so he could properly rule in Google's favor at the end of the day. Granted many judges would have likely not bothered like he did.
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Like I said I don't like it. But that's their standpoint pal.
I personally think it's a matter of time.
On another note, I think the firestick will struggle to run this game..even if it's implemented in the right way..
Just reading the xda news here.
Sounds amazing, compiling shouldn't be a problem
Github link here.
Now I need a legit copy