Develop Bugs

Apple does push the edge!

http://9to5mac.com/2011/10/03/co-founder-of-siri-assistant-is-a-world-changing-event-interview/

That is a lot of bluster. We'll see if it lives up to that hype.

It's SKYNET!!! Kill it with fire before it takes over!!!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Pffft. It's all talk until I see a working copy released which doesn't suck.
... and when it happens, I will name mine "Jane."

Well sure..we'll see. I remember reading about siri when they bought it and was pretty intrigued about the prospects for smartphone use.
It wouldn't surprise me if we see it on the I5.... And yeah it would be another apple game changer... 1 that would have the rest of the industry take a long time to catch up on given that apple owns technology.
All I know is they better have a keyboard on board!

Apple will change the way humans interact with electronic devices
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lol, hyperbole

rockky said:
Well sure..we'll see. I remember reading about siri when they bought it and was pretty intrigued about the prospects for smartphone use.
It wouldn't surprise me if we see it on the I5.... And yeah it would be another apple game changer... 1 that would have the rest of the industry take a long time to catch up on given that apple owns technology.
All I know is they better have a keyboard on board!
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I cant do anything with a iphone its to small much less use the keyboard

What's so new about this Android has it since like forever? May be for dumb ppl who still think Iphone4 has 4G?

Usually on HTC there's a 30% chance you'll get rational exchanges when Apple's in the mix looks like this one hits that mark lol. If Siri (ever researched it?) were hotly rumored to be on the Nexus Prime, it'd be the dominant buzz topic on HTC, guarantee it...he'll were hot and bothered over device credit transactions...
Ok.. back to the google+ android circles on this one...there's at least an appreciation for the technology and it's smartphone implications.

Yikes!.... Umm... All smartphones utilize Vliingo...not even similar. Need....thread...deleted...
QUOTE=digweed4me;18091587]What's so new about this Android has it since like forever? May be for dumb ppl who still think Iphone4 has 4G?[/QUOTE]

"This is real AI..."
Sorry, but no. The sheer amount of stored data required to actually accomplish a true "AI" won't be fitting in a smartphone anytime soon, and until someone has an always-on, 10+mb downlink network as a normal mobile broadband connection, it certainly won't be cloud based either. This will be nothing more than very very good speach-initiated actions.
On a related note, don't be surprised if ICS also beefs up it's speech control. It's been a long time since pico tts was implemented, and now with the standard amount of storage space in smart phones they can afford to inject a bigger database.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Using voice for a phone is a gimmick.. I've owned many smartphones and never felt the need for it.

Apple is going to add voice recognition and navigation, two things google perfected years ago, and the tech journalists are going to get all hot over Apple's innovation. The end.
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kingsway8605 said:
Apple is going to add voice recognition and navigation, two things google perfected years ago, and the tech journalists are going to get all hot over Apple's innovation. The end.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
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The sad thing is I can totally see that being the case. /smh

Why is this even posted here? If I wanted to read iPhone threads, I'd go to an iPhone forum.
In before I get flamed. And yeah, "if you don't like the thread, don't open it" .... whatever.

Is this a joke? Siri? Voice recognition with included internet search compatibility? Wow!!! Amazing!!! Not. Apple will be able to spin it as a ground breaking development to the idiot masses although this technology already exists and all that's different is more integration with voice command. On top of that it's boring and not as useful as they like to make it look. If this is all Apple's got it's pathetic. I don't even feel like responding to Apples non sense any longer is warranted. Let them sue everyone on the planet, they know their days are numbered and see the writing on the wall way better than I can.
---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:35 PM ----------
cds0699 said:
Why is this even posted here? If I wanted to read iPhone threads, I'd go to an iPhone forum.
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Agreed, posting some Apple crap voice recognition search utility on an ET4G Android forum on XDA Developers must be a joke. I think it's a joke unless its another retarded fanboy that doesn't know any better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPPcTN5sdX4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Notice the date of the posted video was August 11, 2010
Apple its so cutting edge ::rolls eyes::
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App

kingsway8605 said:
Apple is going to add voice recognition and navigation, two things google perfected years ago, and the tech journalists are going to get all hot over Apple's innovation. The end.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
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Agreed, and then Apple's going to sue everyone who has voice recognition claiming it belongs to them. I'm wondering, have they ever tried suing Applebee's? Isn't there an apple in their sign too?
Apple be gone!
And whoever posted about this post being here in our ET forum, I agree, can a moderator move this Crapple junk out for the trash truck to pick up? Surely there's a "lawsuits-r-us" or "lawsuits-r-apple" website somewhere that this can be rejected into.

Siri on WP7. Lets make it happen...

Siri cracked to work on Android, WP7!
Is there anyone here that would like to tackle this?

JamesDax said:
Siri cracked to work on Android, WP7!
Is there anyone here that would like to tackle this?
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interesting read, would be a cool homebrew tool to have

I am sure that there would not be to much code to handle but you would require an iphone 4S for the use of the application as every request is bound to your iPhones UUID and Apple will much likely ban the UUID if it is used on somewhat, lets say 1000 devices

Massacre aunt moffet thanksgiving steering the gulf war approximate deliberation pain quest.
This message sent to you by microsoft windows phone seven point five siri-like live beta

ohgood said:
Massacre aunt moffet thanksgiving steering the gulf war approximate deliberation pain quest.
This message sent to you by microsoft windows phone seven point five siri-like live beta
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muahaha lol great

Am i the only one that doesn't care about siri? Other than showing off to other people, what use does it have?
I admit the reminder feature is pretty efficient but other than that, why can't you press the search key and type your question?
especially since you're probably going to have to ask your question multiple times for it to get it right.

Nah, lets not. Not interested in that feature at all.

karan1203 said:
Am i the only one that doesn't care about siri? Other than showing off to other people, what use does it have?
I admit the reminder feature is pretty efficient but other than that, why can't you press the search key and type your question?
especially since you're probably going to have to ask your question multiple times for it to get it right.
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Stupid name too (siri). Same with iPhone, iPad, isuck, etc. 90% of the itards probably don't even know what the i means.
Sent from my Windows Phone Mango Focus using Board Express

Not impressed
I actually got to play with siri on a friends iPhone yesterday and I was really not that impressed, its cool and all but it couldn't pick up certain nick names in contact lists that my WP7 could (we have common friends so some of our contacts match)
There are other things its clearly superior at, but for me at least I use the speech to text function for work while driving and I need it to be accurate or I will be ripping my hair out.

I'm confused - I thought Siri was just a copy of the voice commands already available on Android and WP7? That's what I keep hearing - that is doesn't add anything new, it's just a rip-off, it doesn't work well, our voice commands work better anyway etc etc.
So what exactly is the point of porting it?

The "new" Features are that Siri is a chatbot combined with Voice Recognition Software. You can ask siri if you would need an umbrella and it interprets that question as "will it rain today", checks up the weather for your Location and tells you that it wont rain trough the sentence lets say "no, you can safely let your umbrella at home."
There also is the fun part of it - that most chatbots do have aswell. If you ask Siri if it wants to marry you, it will tell you that its single user license does not allow marriage or partnership with human beeings.
Thats all the fuzz about it

It's the chatbot function that I'm intrested in. I like the idea of the device understanding your input and responding intelligently. I know it's just fluff but I like fluff so sue me. lol
As far as voice recognition and speech to text functions I'm perfectly happy with what WP devices can do.

As far as i need, i'd add the "navigate to somewhere" voice command only in order to start either bing maps or 5$ navigation turn by turn app

suoko said:
As far as i need, i'd add the "navigate to somewhere" voice command only in order to start either bing maps or 5$ navigation turn by turn app
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Here is my social observation for the day:
It is amazing when we watch SciFi movies that depict a society where man interacts with machine on a personal level and we leave with a sense of disbelieve remarking "oh, that would never happen!" only to see it unfold in our society today.
Fifteen years ago if you wanted to get into contact with someone you called them on the telephone. The telephone was the natural progression to sending a written message, whether it be by carrier pidgeon or US Postal Service. Facebook chat is not a natural progression. Yes, it is more efficient, but if we were all about efficiency we would never be taking reading material into the restroom. We would not spend 4 hours inside a building, playing terrible music at deafening volumes, paying $6 for watered down alcoholic beverages to meet what is likely to be an incompatible mate.
Why on earth would someone prefer to say "Do I need my Umbrella today?" as opposed to simply saying "Weather" or clicking on the weather icon/app/widget? Are we so distance from human interaction that we need to make friends with our phones?
Life must really suck when the highlight of the day includes asking a phone for a good knock-knock joke.

Because "Do I need an umbrella today?" is more natural than yelling "Weather" at someone. Saying just "Weather" is jerky and weird. Saying "Siri, weather" might make more sense in public since someone will most likely understand you are talking to your device. But we are encouraged to not prelude with "Siri", we are encouraged to talk to it like a human, because it's what we already know.

Exactly. People tend to think in conversational thought fragments, even when not speaking. The appeal of Siri is that you don't need to make any conscious distinction between how you naturally think and speak, and the command syntax required by the device. They are one and the same.
Sorry if that "sucks" for some people but, well, that's life.

karan1203 said:
Am i the only one that doesn't care about siri? Other than showing off to other people, what use does it have?
I admit the reminder feature is pretty efficient but other than that, why can't you press the search key and type your question?
especially since you're probably going to have to ask your question multiple times for it to get it right.
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It has a lot of use. You obviously have not used it for any decent amount of time, or been around someone who does.
Also, Siri's voice recognition accuracy is beyond what preceeding offerings provided. It uses the best of Nuance.

While I think it's a "cool" feature, I wouldn't see myself using full sentences with my phone. The reason I love WinPhone so much is because of the ease of one glance, one word ("answer"/"ignore") and easy search. Though, having an option of both worlds would be great, if TellMe acted identically to Siri, you'd be seeing greatly different reactions here, and I mean towards the negative spectrum.
I have to agree with nick in that I prefer to say "Weather" or "WeatherLive" than to have to ask questions. I currently answer my phone with my voice, I honestly don't care if I look crazy to my surroundings lol. Siri, while amazingly cool because it brings HAL into your world, is more of a marketing ploy than an actual feature, like having it say it was at the spa when the servers disastrously crashed. There was a thread that made comparisons to Kinect when it came out, and people criticized Kinect because it did the same thing (or was capable of it) but used short-words rather than a conversation approach, which I thought was crazy.

(remove offensive quoted material)
RoboDad, my attempt at humour may have been misplaced; I did not intend to offend. The Apple ads are portraying the iPhone as a companion, just like Fiya is suggesting. When a phone becomes a companion then I believe we have extreme societal issues. I already believe the social networking era is a plague.
I get the point about naturally speaking to the phone to simulate regular conversation, but for the exact same reason I do not want to have to say "I'm making a left turn at the next intersection" to have my car turn on the appropriate indicator light, is the exact same reason why I do not want to say "Precious, will I be able to play golf on saturday?"
Is there substance in asking a phone to marry its user? Or if one needs an umbrella? Is asking for an umbrella vs what the weather is like (so rain is the only type of inclimental weather?) an effective question?
Android - Swipe to unlock. Look at weather widget. Oh I need an umbrella.
Windows Phone - Swipe to unlock. Look at weather tile. Oh I need an umbrella.
Seems to me like its another play with your phone addon. If someone wants a phone that they can socially interact with autonomously then Siri makes sense. To me the idea is nonsense.
And how am I supposed to start a conversation with the pretty girl in the sexy jogging outfit that does laps in the park every morning at 5:30am while I am on the bench drinking a beer?
"Think it will rain tomorrow?"
"Go ask Siri you creep!"

''go ask SIRI, you creep...''
What's all the hype with SIRI? How come this feature ( really old) became mother of all trolls in one overnight?
The big step everybody is praising is not the IoS but the Apple servers that do the ''contextual'' recognition. The app itself just relays some bits to the servers...and articulates the answer back to the iEars...
Afaik, FBI and Homeland Sec had this contextual recognition running for millions of calls a decade ago...just like XP Tablet Edition was running then, InkSeine -from MS also- had gestures in 2006.
Siri is just the latest item on the ''newly invented, breaktrought, blah-blah-blah'' list, preceded by out-of-this-world ( some prefer to call them miracles) features: touchscreen, swipe-to-unlock, camera on the phone, front camera on a phone, videocall, 3G,....

The Google and Apple battle gets uglier

Before I give my opinion, I must admit that my opinions may not hold true legally. I know little more than DMV laws. Nor am I a tech expert, insider or historian. I will be wrong on some facts, but I believe that my overall analysis will stand true.
Apple isn't really hitting Google as hard as some may think.
Google and apple are 2 forces that have an inverse success relationship. This we all know. They compete over the same market. This was from day 1, heck, even before then (depending on how you judge when day 1 was).
This is a fact that hasn't gone unseen to them both. They choose 2 tactics to deal with that issue. Apple chose to gain fame and sales through marketing, and got patents on all that's under the sun. A tactic that may look ugly, but money doesn't care.
Google, on the other hand, doesn't look perfect either. They gave ALL the freedom to developers, and opened the platform up. This protects them from apple, to a degree, because they aren't accountable for the actions of others. This gave their platform an advantage over the legal system and the rights of others.
I dislike apple, and like google, but that's not worth a thing. Google's tactics are healthier towards the market. Apple kills development... Outside apple itself.
The thing is, apple can continue to harm the android platform, and never kill it, ever. This is because android is open, and devs and manufacturers will always adjust.
Google, on the other hand, only needs one hit on ios, One injunction, and apple is dead in the water. Apple has, in many senses, only one device (the iphone and ipad are not that different). If they can stop the iphone OR the ipad, they don't need to settle, they can keep devices off the market for weeks, months or even permanently (if it's a hardware issue).
Keep in mind that most apple devices are produced BEFORE THE FIRST PIECE IS SOLD. So once google stops a device, apple's sales stop for a year (or so). apple can throw all what it made in the sea, or ship them overseas.
Also keep in mind, that most development and it's financial backing (as in app sales), is within US borders. This means IOS will effectively die.
BUT
What's hard to believe, is that both parties needed the existence of each other. In this case, each of them needed a competitor (though they each wanted the bigger piece of the pie). Economics says that competition creates demand, and in some cases vice versa. Ex: look at Pepsi and coke. They gained by competing, through keeping the other soda manufacturers out. The war between these two tech giants helped them sell devices.
Part of the reason that the current situation got so ugly, is that the market has a new competitor, a crappy one too (apple and Google's wet dream). Microsoft has taken apple's closed stance. This allows for the existence of google, not apple, as it is a more direct competition with the latter. Microsoft also gains if it remains in the market with Android, even as a weaker party, because it gets so much money off most android manufacturers (through licensing settlements) .
This whole situation is a move to drive apple out of the market. Apple's is clawing everyone cause it knows that it's being choked. Apple will not hold back any card that will keep it alive, even suing a search engine for searching for stuff.
THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING.
Am I right?
------------------------------------
Sent from my banned Galaxy Nexus

If Google gets that patent for the notification center then apple will be surely in the cesspool.

It's all been dramatized to elicit blog clicks. Nothing will be the end or death or ruin of either of them, they'll just posture enough and setup a convincing enough legal threat by building precedent with these little cases until they're forced into some sort of cross licensing deal. It's business, not politics, or religion. Don't believe the hype.

Well patent for notification center will be an exact stop point for Apple because they have only few devices that uses same OS. It's not the same as Android where one condition applies to a minority of devices.
Apple is destined to die anyway. Their biggest innovation in the last few years was providing more density to their devices as I've said in another thread.

Djabolic said:
Apple is destined to die anyway. Their biggest innovation in the last few years was providing more density to their devices as I've said in another thread.
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Apple's not going anywhere. Part of their genius is convincing their idiot users that the Apple logo is all the innovation they need to look for.

1cewolf said:
Apple's not going anywhere. Part of their genius is convincing their idiot users that the Apple logo is all the innovation they need to look for.
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And that is the core of apple. Misleading when they use the full shiny apple when in reality it should be a picture of a rotten core.
butter and jelly please...

Google just being quite. thats all. They wanted all the crApple and its user just use their Google product only. If only they dont have that, Apple would be long gone. Most technology used in Apple, are from Google(i think so...). and if Samsung, HTC and others join forces and stating each of their patent used by Apple, its done. the thing is, other companies actually wanted a healthy competition, which is totally different than how Apple see it, cuz they are out of ideas and forgot how to innovate!

I have yet to understand why Google hasn't sued apple back. For example, one of apples newest features is from android. The feature in which when you receive a call you can reply back with a text stating "i am driving" for instance. Meanwhile, the apple notification Center was biggest steal ever. Finally, they sued amazon for calling their store the App store. App store is just to generic they honestly can't have a patent on that....
It is as if i sued a grocery store because i have a patent on the word grocery store so they can't call themselves grocery store.
Samsung Galaxy s2 Nuclear Rocket - Embryo 3.2 [UCLE2 BASE]
iPhone 4S - Gave it away, not cool enough
iPhone 3GS - Went for a Swim
Dog - Custom Rom [Golden Retriever] [BEAR2 BASE]

LuffyPSP said:
Google just being quite. thats all. They wanted all the crApple and its user just use their Google product only. If only they dont have that, Apple would be long gone. Most technology used in Apple, are from Google(i think so...). and if Samsung, HTC and others join forces and stating each of their patent used by Apple, its done. the thing is, other companies actually wanted a healthy competition, which is totally different than how Apple see it, cuz they are out of ideas and forgot how to innovate!
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the idea of joining forces may seem childish to some, but a quick look at the Rockstar Consortium should change their minds. The problem with that idea is that apple is not their #1 competitor, other android manufacturers are. Google is the only party that can lead a case against apple (on software at least), and Google has been holding back since the start.
My guess is that, that's about to change

1cewolf said:
Apple's not going anywhere. Part of their genius is convincing their idiot users that the Apple logo is all the innovation they need to look for.
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I still have some hope left in me about the next generations will be smarter than the current zombie-like society.

Djabolic said:
I still have some hope left in me about the next generations will be smarter than the current zombie-like society.
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I don't. A co-worker of mine has a college aged daughter who went to an orientation where they were doing some kind of ice breaker game. Anyway, the student gathered around in a circle and they would ask these student something and depending on the answer they would step in the circle. So they asked "whoever didn't have an iPhone step in the circle" and she was the only one to step inside. She felt so bad she's going to buy an iPhone just to be like everyone else. Peer pressure at it's finest

Geo411m said:
I don't. A co-worker of mine has a college aged daughter who went to an orientation where they were doing some kind of ice breaker game. Anyway, the student gathered around in a circle and they would ask these student something and depending on the answer they would step in the circle. So they asked "whoever didn't have an iPhone step in the circle" and she was the only one to step inside. She felt so bad she's going to buy an iPhone just to be like everyone else. Peer pressure at it's finest
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Bet she comes back to the light.
butter and jelly please...

Djabolic said:
If Google gets that patent for the notification center then apple will be surely in the cesspool.
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Click to collapse
At this rate apple will file for it and get it
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex

Geo411m said:
I don't. A co-worker of mine has a college aged daughter who went to an orientation where they were doing some kind of ice breaker game. Anyway, the student gathered around in a circle and they would ask these student something and depending on the answer they would step in the circle. So they asked "whoever didn't have an iPhone step in the circle" and she was the only one to step inside. She felt so bad she's going to buy an iPhone just to be like everyone else. Peer pressure at it's finest
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Yeah two of my gf's ladies friends only bought iPhones because "everyone has one" I lol'ed and said well more people have android. Then the most painful thing I have done with a phone and that's including rooting. I had to set a mp3 as ringtone for one of her friends iphone.....dear god I didn't think I was going to be able to do it
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2

BrianDigital said:
Yeah two of my gf's ladies friends only bought iPhones because "everyone has one" I lol'ed and said well more people have android. Then the most painful thing I have done with a phone and that's including rooting. I had to set a mp3 as ringtone for one of her friends iphone.....dear god I didn't think I was going to be able to do it
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2
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Yes adding media outside of iTunes sucks. And god forbid you have to use a different computer than the one the iPhone was originally synced on.

i agree with many points. but in my opinion google isn´t so much interested in producing and selling mobile phones. it´s more to keep people related to google itself. the search, email, chat, google+ etc... and i think there´s much more. the accounts and usage of them are important for google itself. the hardware developers samsung htc etc... they sell phones to make money with hardware, google with android and google products. i think android would be enough for supply and demand, because that´s the competition of the hardware-manufacturers (samsung, htc, etc...). i think the mainreasons is the market to keep android alive. as u see with nexus7, google isn´t interested in selling hardware, just to get their software sold. 200$ isn´t much for the hardware. google wants to sell the hardware a) to get as many people to google b) to ace apple out of the market. google makes money with selling software over their market. and with the new market, tv, movies and more. on the other hand, if more people get android, less will stay with apple.
may be, google will become monopolist on the market. dunno, dislike apple and me as customer, i profit from google products. as in op, the policy is more friendly of google than apple.
(sry for may bad english in some cases )

Anthonok said:
At this rate apple will file for it and get it
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex
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One would hope our patent system isn't so broken that Apple could file now and get it before Google who filed for it years ago.

adrynalyne said:
One would hope our patent system isn't so broken that Apple could file now and get it before Google who filed for it years ago.
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Money goes a long way.
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex

Anthonok said:
Money goes a long way.
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex
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That may be, but that sort of blatant corruption would be very visible.

adrynalyne said:
That may be, but that sort of blatant corruption would be very visible.
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They just got the patent for water damage detection and the shape of the macbook air... aka just a thin "wedge" shape... and something extremely similar to Google glass.
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex

Apple wins Samsung lawsuit in US, ridicilous but....

Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
As now this whole thing probably gets deeper with appeals and most likely Google will have to get more involved. What do you think, the 2 biggest are fighting together could this actually a good thing for WP camp, especially Nokia since they are the main manufacturer in the WP camp?

Loco5150 said:
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
As now this whole thing probably gets deeper with appeals and most likely Google will have to get more involved. What do you think, the 2 biggest are fighting together could this actually a good thing for WP camp, especially Nokia since they are the main manufacturer in the WP camp?
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This has no benefit to WP whatsoever, 1B for samsung is like two pieces of paper, and they won't pay it, they'll appeal as usual.
So, nope Nokia and WP will need something else to shine.

apple will get, ohhhh , about what they get for 3 months worth of new activstions on iPhones. Samsung will keep on pummeling us with incredible phones.
Nokia? no benefit. unless it bumps the stock price (taking profits time) for the folks that are raping it daily.

This most likely will end with sales ban for some devices, also Apple will go after other Android manufacturers. Bloomberg also reports that Samsung will most likely have to delay some new devices so they have time to change things so they will not do the same thing again.
All this might be helping the smaller guy. But for the record I hope the appeals court will change this verdict. Also that they void Apple's ridicilous and vague patents that never should have been rewarded anyway.

Loco5150 said:
This most likely will end with sales ban for some devices, also Apple will go after other Android manufacturers. Bloomberg also reports that Samsung will most likely have to delay some new devices so they have time to change things so they will not do the same thing again.
All this might be helping the smaller guy. But for the record I hope the appeals court will change this verdict. Also that they void Apple's ridicilous and vague patents that never should have been rewarded anyway.
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but those rounded corners are apples' genius!
the whole thing is stupid anyway. if you can't win in sales, sic lawyers on the competition.
remember sco?

ohgood said:
but those rounded corners are apples' genius!
the whole thing is stupid anyway. if you can't win in sales, sic lawyers on the competition.
remember sco?
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wasnt the rectangle with rounded corners thrown out though?
as to the topic, It could be good for WP, the whole android model is starting to look a bit dodgy, potentially, manufactures might start to say its not worth the hassle and since google has made it perfectly clear they are on their own it makes for a juicy target!
MS and Apple have cross licence agreements going back decades and as such are by and large protected from this stupidity, but lets be clear on something here, its neither apple or Samsung that should be attacked because of these daft patent wars, its the people in the patent office that should be shot, if Apple are awarded a patent for a box with a button in the middle then it is perfectly within its rights to uphold that patent.
its stupid, but I don't hold the companies to blame, every single one of us would jump through hoops to make 2.7B USD regardless of how stupid it is and how marginal it is, if there was a chance we'd go for it, and its the patent office that sets up these chances.

Well it's just about some patents regarding pinch to zoom, double tap and bounce scroll. All of the other competitors were paying already for using those patented features, Samsung wasn't because it's a scumbag company which is only able to make good internals and displays slapping them into fugly plastic bodies with no personality whatsoever, and therefore keeps copying the competition to make up for the above mentioned weak points. Paying for anything doesn't appeal to them, they much prefer stealing instead. Don't get me wrong, I still think that these things should be under FRAND, but law is there to be respected or reformed, acting like it didn't exist and getting into such kind of trials just in order to spare a few bucks is just being a lame and disrespectful scumbag company. At least in this case, justice was done. Now let's reform this patent bull**** system.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Having owned a device from every smartphone platform except BB and Android I think Android is the platform that tends to borrow the most from everyone else.
Samsung is a cloning company, they make things for people. So it should come as no surprise that they are good at lifting other peoples ideas.
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
I think iOS has fallen behind the times and so my move to Windows Phone, but we all owe Apple for making multitouch and finger based touchscreen devices mainstream. It's something Samsing would never have done, their top selling phones before the iPhone were mostly dumbphones.

dazza9075 said:
wasnt the rectangle with rounded corners thrown out though?
as to the topic, It could be good for WP, the whole android model is starting to look a bit dodgy, potentially, manufactures might start to say its not worth the hassle and since google has made it perfectly clear they are on their own it makes for a juicy target!
MS and Apple have cross licence agreements going back decades and as such are by and large protected from this stupidity, but lets be clear on something here, its neither apple or Samsung that should be attacked because of these daft patent wars, its the people in the patent office that should be shot, if Apple are awarded a patent for a box with a button in the middle then it is perfectly within its rights to uphold that patent.
its stupid, but I don't hold the companies to blame, every single one of us would jump through hoops to make 2.7B USD regardless of how stupid it is and how marginal it is, if there was a chance we'd go for it, and its the patent office that sets up these chances.
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I was being silly about the round corners. the patent system is broken, but that's another story /thread.
so long as the android devices are selling better than the iPhone, I doubt manufacturers will think of it as dodgy.
manufacturers only care about selling phones... they'll do whatever is needed to keel doing that, inuding paying pennies to the apple gods to do so. passing on expenses is economics 101. (sad really)
---------- Post added at 05:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 AM ----------
gilesjuk said:
Having owned a device from every smartphone platform except BB and Android I think Android is the platform that tends to borrow the most from everyone else.
Samsung is a cloning company, they make things for people. So it should come as no surprise that they are good at lifting other peoples ideas.
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
I think iOS has fallen behind the times and so my move to Windows Phone, but we all owe Apple for making multitouch and finger based touchscreen devices mainstream. It's something Samsing would never have done, their top selling phones before the iPhone were mostly dumbphones.
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its not much of a struggle to think of very good, very impressive samsung devices of late. the s3 and even s2 are selling (and reselling) like hotcakes. look at your local craigslist , the most desired phones are back and forth between ihpone 4s and s3/s2. I would expect some kind of shattering ideals cpu and display by Christmas from them also.
clones? yes, everyone is making a slab of glass phone. its what sells now. Nokia, Samsung, HTC, LG (are they still making phones) , everyone is on the slab of glass bandwagon.

ohgood said:
its not much of a struggle to think of very good, very impressive samsung devices of late. the s3 and even s2 are selling (and reselling) like hotcakes.
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Yes, but they're basically "me too" products. They've taken their existing product and added hundreds of features and bigger screen etc.
The sad thing is Apple is now stuck in this cycle of just adding a few more features, nicer screen and camera.
What I was saying was when did Samsung ever release a product that totally changed the market? It seems to me that Apple has released the devices that changed the computing industry the most. Mam, iMac, iPod and iPhone, iPad. While they may not have invented all the technology they used it still takes a lot of guts to release a different product.
The sad thing is how Microsoft laughed at the iPhone and then scrambled to release their own comparable platform (3 years later!).
I couldn't care less for Google, they're even worse than Microsoft for copying. At least when Microsoft look at a rival and release their version it is usually better in many ways, cheaper and not much less in quality. Google's stuff tends to be very low quality and poorly supported. Even devices they have had made for them were badly made (Nexus 7).

gilesjuk said:
Yes, but they're basically "me too" products. They've taken their existing product and added hundreds of features and bigger screen etc.
The sad thing is Apple is now stuck in this cycle of just adding a few more features, nicer screen and camera.
What I was saying was when did Samsung ever release a product that totally changed the market? It seems to me that Apple has released the devices that changed the computing industry the most. Mam, iMac, iPod and iPhone, iPad. While they may not have invented all the technology they used it still takes a lot of guts to release a different product.
The sad thing is how Microsoft laughed at the iPhone and then scrambled to release their own comparable platform (3 years later!).
I couldn't care less for Google, they're even worse than Microsoft for copying. At least when Microsoft look at a rival and release their version it is usually better in many ways, cheaper and not much less in quality. Google's stuff tends to be very low quality and poorly supported. Even devices they have had made for them were badly made (Nexus 7).
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ahhh, misunderstood you. I see now.
can't think of anything revolutoonary since the mouse really. voice input is neat, but the keyboard and mouse still own.

Loco5150 said:
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
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Err... This jury had people with legal knowledge and at least one engineer with a patent of their own. It was probably the most knowledgeable jury I've seen... ever.
vnvman said:
Well it's just about some patents regarding pinch to zoom, double tap and bounce scroll. All of the other competitors were paying already for using those patented features, Samsung wasn't because it's a scumbag company which is only able to make good internals and displays slapping them into fugly plastic bodies with no personality whatsoever, and therefore keeps copying the competition to make up for the above mentioned weak points.
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You said it brother.
gilesjuk said:
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
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Nope. Samsung Note. At first I thought it sounded redonkulous. The build quality sucks compared to the Lumia 900 but the screen size definitely caught on with a certain segment of the population. The iphone 4s' screen is pathetic. No way around that. I'm not saying I would cruise around with a note in my pocket but it definitely explores a space. If the iphone 4s was the final word on smartphone screens we would be stuck in the stone ages. People crow about the iphone apps but I can't see those things God damn it! That screen is tiny.

sitizenx said:
Err... This jury had people with legal knowledge and at least one engineer with a patent of their own. It was probably the most knowledgeable jury I've seen... ever.
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Yup, one person that that has some knowledge on patents. Not enough in my opinion. Even if it was the "most knowledgeable jury", that does not mean that it is qualified to handle the matter.
Now why I started the whole topic. Apple has now asked sales ban for 8 Samsung devices in the US. I would expect we will see a lot more of this in the near future.
And yes Samsung keeps copying things, hell yes that happens in every business all the time. But you know what, so does Apple. They are just better at it. They basically steal because they are able to make the consumer think they actually invented these things. They did not invent mp3 player or a touch screen phone, they just copied it and made it better.

Loco5150 said:
Apple has now asked sales ban for 8 Samsung devices in the US. I would expect we will see a lot more of this in the near future.
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proof that the USA is in need of a rethink of (not just) its patent system.
they want the sales ban to get some of their sales percentage back, not because of patent infringement. its a lie covering inadequacies. pitiful.

The law ask "are the products similar "? Thats all it ask, and the obvious answer is...
Everybody said it before the original Galaxy S was released,"boy that thing looks a lot like the iPhone". Every reviewer, just YouTube it. The icons and bounce scroll sealed it.
Dont hate the player(Apple), hate the game(patent system).
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

So here we go... Now Apple is seeking sales ban for new Samsung devices, inluding Galaxy S III and Galaxy Note.

Apple stop it already

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/28/tech/innovation/google-apple-patents/
Apple just give up the IPHONE sucks deal with it.

They won a big one, so it's going to continue. There's not much discussion left other than Apple is abusing the Patent system.

Overstew said:
They won a big one, so it's going to continue. There's not much discussion left other than Apple is abusing the Patent system.
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I agree with you on this one, they are taking advantage of the patenting system, here's the kicker though. They are applying for and securing patents and until the actual inventors or idea makers actually patent and secure patenting rights, Apple will continue to patent other peoples ideas and secure them as their own.
Not only is this abuse of patenting, it's also that juries are awarding them the win. Anyone is able to patent an idea, even if it's not their own, as long as there is not already a patent issued for that idea. Apple is taking the legal route and patenting ideas, not only that but they are awarded the patent. A patent is there for you to take action upon your patent being violated.
I look at it as if Apple is saying the only way they can compete is to put other companies at bay by suing them for their patent infringements. Patenting "rounded corners" is absurd, period. Apple wasn't the first company to come up with rounded corners, they are the first to patent the design though, so thus it became their patent.
I think there are some things that should be protected by patents, I think a lot of modifiers and developers should take the time to patent their designs and mods in order to protect their ideas and hard work. Think of the pull down notification bar, who do you think came up with that idea? Probably not the person who holds the patent on it! I say in order to have an open and free market there should be something that are un-patentable. One thing that shouldn't be patented, I saw on Shark Tank and Mark Cuban said it was the most ridiculous patent ever and that those kind of patents are what is crippling the free and open market, that patent was adding a hole in a pocket so that headphones can connect to a device and thus allowing the user to plug their headphones into a device without needing to thread it up and under the closing flap... what a load of crap!
Apple, if you're so innovative and so bleeding edge, do you really need to sue your competition into bankruptcy or even to the point where they have to pay royalties because you patented something that you didn't even come up with on your own? To me, Apple isn't so much a technology innovator as it is a technology stealer (not saying that haven't had any innovations though)
This whole suing thing frustrates me, yet they have the legal right to do so because they secured the patent on ideas that they got from someone else. I am not saying Apple didn't come up with something on their complete own, although it would be hard pressed to come up with those things... I mean come on, they couldn't even come up with their own company name, they stole that from The Beatles owned Apple Records... gimme a break!
Oh and let's not start on Intellectual Property either, patenting ideas without having any prototypes!
Okay I will now step down from my soapbox, thanks for allowing me to rant
for your reading pleasure http://www.businessinsider.com/how-ios-5-copied-android-2012-5?op=1

Samsung just sold them $7B in CPU's. They wanted a quick way to get some money back and carriers aren't going to be willing to subsidize the production of their devices anymore when they can make real money off Android devices (especially SAmsung.)

elephant007 said:
I agree with you on this one, they are taking advantage of the patenting system, here's the kicker though. They are applying for and securing patents and until the actual inventors or idea makers actually patent and secure patenting rights, Apple will continue to patent other peoples ideas and secure them as their own.
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This right here is a fine example of the Patent System and it's vulnerability. It shouldn't be allowed to be patented if the Technology already exists.
elephant007 said:
Not only is this abuse of patenting, it's also that juries are awarding them the win. Anyone is able to patent an idea, even if it's not their own, as long as there is not already a patent issued for that idea. Apple is taking the legal route and patenting ideas, not only that be they are awarded the patent. A patent is there for you to take action upon your patent being violated.
I look at it as if Apple is saying the only way they can compete is to put other companies at bay by suing them for their patent infringements. Patenting "rounded corners" is absurd, period. Apple wasn't the first company to come up with rounded corners, they are the first to patent the design though, so thus it because their patent.
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This is correct. Apple is losing Market share, and it's showing. They are choosing to claim that Samsung (and other manufacturers) are 100% ripping Apple off, which isn't necessarily the case. If I recall, Samsung didn't own most of the Market share until after the S2 (which wasn't a complete ripoff of Iphone). One can argue the software icons are alike, but Apple's point is that Samsung products are "Too similar" and "confuse customers into thinking they're buying Apple products." This is absolutely ridiculous. Just the fact that they have patented the shape of the device makes my stomach twist. The thing about innovation (at least for most part) is taking someone's brilliant idea, and making it better. Look at how far the wheel's got.
elephant007 said:
I think there are some things that should be protected by patents, I think a lot of modifiers and developers should take the time to patent their designs and mods in order to protect their ideas and hard work. Think of the pull down notification bar, who do you think came up with that idea? Probably not the person who holds the patent on it! I say in order to have an open and free market there should be something that are un-patentable. One thing that shouldn't be patented, I saw on Shark Tank and Mark Cuban said it was the most ridiculous patent ever and that those kind of patents are what is crippling the free and open market, that patent was adding a hole in a pocket so that headphones can connect to a device and thus allowing the user to plug their headphones into a device without needing to thread it up and under the closing flap... what a load of crap!
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Apple is playing the victim in court but you're absolutely right, Apple saw the notification bar and implemented it because it's not patented. This, I would be fine with, but when they go and complain about someone else using their work for design then they go to court. It's all about who's got what in writing at this point.
elephant007 said:
Apple, if you're so innovative and so bleeding edge, do you really need to sue your competition into bankruptcy or even to the point where they have to pay royalties because you patented something that you didn't even come up with on your own? To me, Apple isn't so much a technology innovator as it is a technology stealer (not saying that you haven't had any innovations though)
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I love this part of your reply.
elephant007 said:
This whole suing thing frustrates me, yet they have the legal right to do so because they secured the patent on ideas that they got from someone else. I am not saying Apple didn't come up with something on their complete own, although it would be hard pressed to come up with those things... I mean come on, they couldn't even come up with their own company name, they stole that from The Beatles owned Apple Records... gimme a break!
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Well, hopefully with the Motorola/Google vs Apple lawsuits, things might change. "If you sue me and win, I'll sue you and win." It'll be a never ending circle until they agree upon some sort of agreement like Microsoft has with Apple.
elephant007 said:
Oh and let's not start on Intellectual Property either, patenting ideas without having any prototypes!
Okay I will now step down from my soapbox, thanks for allowing me to rant
for your reading pleasure http://www.businessinsider.com/how-ios-5-copied-android-2012-5?op=1
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I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this and it's great how similar it is to mine.

http://www.appy-geek.com/Web/ArticleMobile.aspx?regionid=1&articleid=4121798
Apple just give up the IPHONE sucks deal with it.

Check this one out
http://www.appy-geek.com/Web/ArticleMobile.aspx?regionid=1&articleid=4121798
Apple just give up the IPHONE sucks deal with it.

blackdragon79 said:
http://www.appy-geek.com/Web/ArticleMobile.aspx?regionid=1&articleid=4121798
Apple just give up the IPHONE sucks deal with it.
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Lol. This is the result of Apple telling everyone that Samsung's products are basically Apples. They've implanted into people's minds that Samsung = Apple, but Samsung < Apple in terms of $$$. So People <3 Samsung > Apple.

This is going into a ridicoulus childrens feud, were you do me harm then I'll harm you yada yada bs...
If this continues we might see a similiar outcome as the one in South Korea, where BOTH Apple and Samsung are facing a limited time ban on their respective products.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19364875
A direct qoute from the judge proceeding the ruling
"There are lots of external design similarities between the iPhone and Galaxy S, such as rounded corners and large screens... but these similarities had been documented in previous products," a judge at the Seoul Central District Court was quoted as saying by the Reuters news agency.
"Given that it's very limited to make big design changes in touchscreen based mobile products in general... and the defendant [Samsung] differentiated its products with three buttons in the front and adopted different designs in camera and [on the] side, the two products have a different look,"
If only the CA jury had this insight and ruled the verdict in the same way, things would of come differently and had given Apple a wake up call and big slap in the face.

The Jury Blew it
A self-proclaimed "expert" pretty much decided the case and the rest of the jury went along for the ride.
Groklaw has a nice little article on it.

GPLLL said:
A self-proclaimed "expert" pretty much decided the case and the rest of the jury went along for the ride.
Groklaw has a nice little article on it.
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Doesn't that fall under conflict of interest and over rules the decision? Not sure how the court system works or anything, but in other cases this alone would go for an over rule and/or appeal.

Overstew said:
....Apple's point is that Samsung products are "Too similar" and "confuse customers into thinking they're buying Apple products...
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I have heard that this is what Apple is claiming, if I was an iPhone user that statement would speak volumes to me as to who Apple really views iPhone users... as idiots
I know not all iPhone users are pure idiots, Apple's statement sure makes their thoughts of their users known
Just so everyone knows I'm not bashing iPhone users, all phones have some users that are idiots too! HAHA

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