Develop Bugs

Copyright issues - A_C's S2U2 probem

Hi all,
I'm just a junior member and have no autual authority in the XDA-Developers Community so I hope this is the right place to put this thread. Moderators, please move it if I've got that wrong. I've just read this thread in the Development and Hacking forum:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=425167
and it raised some concerns in my mind which could present some fairly serious threats to the nature of this forum (i.e. developers' willingness to get involved). Here's a copy of what I posted, entitled "We NEED to see the bigger picture":
OK, I have read through this thread fairly quickly and I have some observations and some suggestions to make. Let me say that I am more of a “user” than a developer but I have made a few very small contributions on XDA-Developers. Please check my stats if you want to. Let me also say that I always look at the “bigger picture” in these situations.
Unfortunately what has happened to A_C over S2U2 is a consequence of capitalism. Businesses exist for the purpose of making money and extending their business. It is not so much a matter of trust or character but that the very purpose of a business is to make money and nothing else. The situation we’ve been presented with does however raise some concerning issues.
There are technicalities and more technicalities which people will continue to use to make money out of products and items of value they did not produce themselves. I don’t think anything we can say to businesses will prevent them doing this. For all the arguments we can present, they will have others and there would be little we can do to stop them TRYING to use freely developed software in this way. Businesses will have more money than we have to promote “their” products, and as we’ve already seen, unless we have a pro-bono lawyer, they will have more money for to defend their business and sales through the law and search engine optimisation (which is a very big business by the way!).
The point I am trying to make is that while this may be an isolated incident right now, there’s nothing to stop this happening again and again. We may well have “lost” A_C despite all the genuine and heart felt encouragement directed towards him so it seems to me that if we want to protect what we have, an environment where developers feel free to develop software for themselves and “us” with our support, we need to do more. What can we do?
We do have two critical factors on our side:
1) Community
2) Technical Expertise
Community - A community has a much greater power to change it’s destiny than any one individual – as demonstrated by the unfortunate situation A_C finds himself in. If we all pull together, or even just those of us more committed to this community, we will be able to overcome much more than we currently realise.
Technical Expertise – As stated above, I am not a developer but I am convinced that there is more technical ability available to this community than many software businesses could pay for with their entire budget, or even turnover.
I believe we must make use of these two strengths or suffer the consequences.
My basic suggestion is that a working group is set up from developers who contribute to this community with the sole purpose of writing a code which can be inserted into any ROM or software which clearly states that the software/ROM has been developed free of charge, and that if the “customer” has paid for it then they should ask for a refund and contact XDA-Developers to report the licence violation and receive the full free version of the software. Once developed this code can then be made available, with instructions, to any new developers who start to submit work to the community so that they don’t fall foul of the same experience as A_C.
Additionally could this code be hard coded into the software/ROM so that unscrupulous software sales companies can’t take it out (I.E. not just a .gif or .jpg splash that can be changed or removed)?
As this is a forum, the next step would be for people to share their views on these suggestions and we’ll see what happens!
Best wishes to A_C – hope you’re not feeling too bad.
I’m going to post this in the general forum as a new thread if there’s not one there already.
andrew-in-woking
I hope that this thread will engender some constructive discussion and lead to a better community for all of us.
Best wishes,
andrew-in-woking

the problem with adding code, is that it adds bulk. the classic example is Cubase audio software, where it is estimated that 50% of cpu power can be wasted in it constantly checking it's protection; and even this has been cracked by geniuses, though i think they have since 'retired' from the scene. anyway, i digress. with space at a premium with phones, getting into copy protection, nag screens, etc. is removing that space. plus from own experience and feedback from users, nag screens and reporting fraud options will get ignored. as 9 times out of 10 they have seeked the software out through unscrupulous sources. add to that, a developer has spent months streamlining their code, only to bolt on some fugly security, kinda depressing.
i dont think there is or will ever be a clear cut solution to copyright im afraid, i mean, look at windows lol.

I had no idea this was happening. Thanks for the heads up.

badaas said:
the problem with adding code, is that it adds bulk...
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I think the OP's suggestion is a good one. It doesn't need to be anything complicated or over the top. Simply text in the About screen will suffice.
I.e.
Help>>About>>"Widget v.1.xx, Developed on XDA-Forums as FREEWARE - If you've paid for this please report the seller to the proper authorities"

i think adding in the freeware statement would be a plus i think if A_C decided to add it in down at the buttom when you first start up S2U2 where it states what verison this is and A_C name would be a good time to have it scroll. If there were some way to have it keep marqueeing while the program is running or for it to do it when the screen wakes up i think as users of A_C's product it wouldn't affect me seeing this because the programs are just that great

Help me understand Google's new policies, implemented Mar 1.

A lot of people are buzzing about changes to Google's privacy policies. From my understanding, they pool all of your Google things together to make the Google experience a little more streamlined. I looked at my Google dashboard and saw no surprises, and am completely fine with everything I saw there. A lot of sited like Gizmodo, Washington Post, etc, are claiming that this is a downward move for Google, and that it portrays corporate evil. They claim (and users who post in comments) that they're going to rid themselves of everything Google... why?
Am I missing something?
I love Google, I love their free services, I love their phones, I love Android. I can't just quit it all like these websites are saying people should.
Now, I don't fall in line with others or follow, for lack of a better term, but I feel like I'm missing something very large.
Google has access to my searches. Emails. Contacts.
Google can see my phones, what apps I download, where I am via Google Maps, etc.
Google knows who I am as a human.
This doesn't bother me, but I feel like it should. Please tell me what I'm missing, and tell me why its bad that they have access to all these things. Because right now I'm OK with that fact. Who am I? Why am I so important to them that they're looking at me out of the millions and millions of other people using their services, all equal with me?
Please help me understand this.
Sent from a yakju GSGN

Immediately following your post, I went to Gizmodo to read their article about Google's privacy changes (Google's Broken Promise: The End of "Don't Be Evil").
Being an occasional Gizmodo reader, I was surprised to see the moderator's reaction to the comments below the article. He used some pretty foul language and insults, very unbecoming of a Gizmodo employee.
Most of the commenters' quips seem to be questioning the sensationalism of the article, usually defending Google's stance. The majority of the comments are actually just backlash against the moderator, who in turn threatened bans against commenters whose opinions collided with his own.
I'm a die-hard Lifehacker fan... but it seems the Gawker network needs to clean house and hire some professionals.

PolyOlefin said:
I'm a die-hard Lifehacker fan... but it seems the Gawker network needs to clean house and hire some professionals.
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I agree. I do enjoy reading some Gawker sites, but they're getting really *****y and obnoxious lately.

So to the subject, should we be worried?

ztm.000 said:
So to the subject, should we be worried?
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Doesn't this fall to a matter of trust?
Admittedly, I'm firmly in the Google camp when compared to the spectrum of its competitors. However, I'm also innately suspicious of corporate business, as their loyalty to profit trumps any consideration for their users/employees (Google is better than most).
They explicitly state they're not selling your information to third-parties; it's being used to improve their own services, which any company would do. Facebook is doing similar things, but people aren't going to abandon Facebook. As long as Google remains an anonymizing proxy between myself and other companies, I'm fine with it.
Ultimately, the average user doesn't have anything worth keeping secret from Google's algorithms. What's that? Google's ad-targeting you for dog collars because you posted a YouTube video of your basset hound swimming in a pool? Nobody cares.
In a Big Brother, "1984" sense, I suppose you could argue it's a slippery slope. Again, doesn't it boil down to individual trust? There are certain companies I trust more than others, and Google ranks pretty high on my list.
Am I being naive? Is my bias keeping their transgressions out of the light? Perhaps we need a Google-hater to weigh in for some perspective.

ztm.000 said:
So to the subject, should we be worried?
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I don't know, should you? Do you care that data Google took from you in Gmail is now being used while you're using Chrome? Because that's all that is changing.
They're not taking any additional data.
They're not removing anything.
They're taking what they already did, and applying it to all aspects of your Google accounts. IE: you'll see more similar ad's.
APOCALYPSE NIGH! Gizmodo is a joke.

I don't think we need to be worried.
Question is, what does Google want from us, our money they just want to sell us products. By combining data from all different Google services, they are just trying to create a profile for me, that will help them better identify what I may need, and try to sell it to us.
The problem lies with the fact that the aggregated data may become too incriminating if one has something to hide. But for me, the only fear is with that data being hacked and sold to those who like to operate above the law.
So is Google back to being evil? Nope, they never were. But they have a lot if power, and with great power, comes great responsibility.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App

To sum it up, Google is simply taking all the information it already has of you throughout its services (Gmail, G+, YouTube, etc) and letting these services share this information between themselves.
Google is probably the only company I trust with my privacy. I suggest you take a look at Google's Policies & Principles page, where they list the new (and current) policy and how it affects you. Don't be afraid to read it, they're not hiding behind legal mumbo jumbo, they make it very easy to read and understand.
I'm pretty sure all of these sites are making a huge deal out of this because Google has consistently been pumping out successful services one after the other, and they're using this policy change to:
1) Get pageviews, and thus money, and
2) Its "fun" to try and see the "perfect kid around the block" fail.
Also, Gawker Media f* sucks and has for a very long time now.

We are not in position to point fingers and take positions. Nothing we know (at least for sure) about what google do with our data.
We just cant forget one thing: When the product is free, YOU are the product.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App

Google could be a government front for a division of project echelon and I wouldn't care. I love their products and they give everything away for free with the exception of adwords. Win win for consumers when a company raises the bar and doesn't charge you for it.

The Google’s Broken Promise: The End of "Don’t Be Evil" article reminds me why I only ever visit Gizmodo a handful of times a year.
I don't care what Google do with my info if I'm honest, as long as they aren't selling it, and I'm not getting my inbox spammed with 100's of 'Canadian Pharmacy' e-mails I really couldn't give a ****.

Wow, I read article heading this morning and was saddened by the fact that Google had "gone Evil". I often skim the titles in my RSS feed (which includes Giz) when I've only got 10 minutes during breakfast to read the news.
After reading this thread, then that thread with its comments, I've lost a lot of respect for Gizmodo and its moderators. What sensationalist garbage. The authors never say what has even "changed" in the privacy policy, only that it was rewritten and the sharing of personal data between Google services is emphasized. Honestly, I had assumed that all of Google's services would be running the same ad targeting code anyway.
As one commenter in the Giz thread mentions, take a look at Facebook. Now that is scary. A network that defaults to public sharing whenever they roll out a new feature? I've lost count of the number of times I had to log on to Facebook specifically to check my privacy settings. Even so, I've erased as much of my personal information as possible, messing up my own experience, simply because I don't trust that Facebook cares even a little bit about me.
Yes, Google's a public company, and has first loyalty to its shareholders. However, it does that by cultivating a user base that trusts it. If they wreck that by sharing users' data with third parties or messing up search results (cough cough, get it together guys), they could see their entire company go down in flames. And that wouldn't be profitable at all.

Some of the editors in Gizmodo are terrible apple fan boys. I remember one article of one of them where he wrote that he had 2 ipads and how fantastic they were. He also said he had an android tablet that he claims gave him such a bad user experience that he had even forgotten where it was...
So many of these "news" websites are run by trendy hipster people that have no other choice than loathe Apple.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

PolyOlefin said:
Immediately following your post, I went to Gizmodo to read their article about Google's privacy changes (Google's Broken Promise: The End of "Don't Be Evil").
Being an occasional Gizmodo reader, I was surprised to see the moderator's reaction to the comments below the article. He used some pretty foul language and insults, very unbecoming of a Gizmodo employee.
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Gizmodo has always been an unprofessional, sensationalist blog. I intentionally quit reading after the iPhone 4 "stolen phone" debacle. It's like a bunch of high schoolers started a blog together.
As to the subject, if you don't see why you should be concerned, then don't worry about it. Everyone has different beliefs about privacy. Personally, I'm not very concerned about whatever data Google has, but I can understand why others do.

The End of "Don’t Be Evil"

blackdub370 said:
The End of "Don’t Be Evil"
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If you read this thread, you would see that we're actually about The End of The End of "Don't Be Evil"

Google knows my name
Google knows my screen names
Google knows my location
Google knows my devices
Google knows my home
Google sees my conversations
Google sees my emails
Google sees my search history
Google sees what I type
Google hears my voice
Google sees my face..........
Google now takes (what they already know) emails/gtalk and enhances my searches (which they already see), then can narrow it down by my location (which they already have).....
I fail to see a problem. Guys (not you... mostly opponents) we signed up for this when we entered the digital age. Our info is out there and have signed up to give it out. Quit *****ing and go live in your hole for the rest of your life. Here's a fact:
I opened my gmail, yahoo and Hotmail accounts at roughly the same time. Yahoo has become completely unusable due to spam, I'm obviously some Saudi Princes relative on Hotmail...... but gmail is spam free... there's a reason for it. I trust Google, I have to.
But I know there's a price for free service. 20 years ago we all had AAA subscriptions because we wanted the maps. Those maps we paid for didn't have street view, and we couldn't ask the map where the nearest restaurant was. We don't pay for these services... they are available for us for free.......
That's just my. 02
Sent from my CM9 TouchPad

I have absolutely no issue with this. I think it's obvious that Gizmodo wrote this article in this way to be an alarmist. It was designed to get readers and that's exactly what it did. In the end though, the article is really a POS.

Not sure why anyone, especially android fans, read gizmodo anymore. Check out the verge. They have much better and much less biased editors and writers.

lucasmalaguti said:
We are not in position to point fingers and take positions. Nothing we know (at least for sure) about what google do with our data.
We just cant forget one thing: When the product is free, YOU are the product.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
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I don't disagree with you, but you are essentially describing the Internet as a whole.

Apps - A Coordinated Effort?

We all know one of the biggest gripes about Windows Phone is the lack of a few key apps. I know that I frequently contact a few companies to let them know that I am looking forward to a Windows Phone version of their existing apps and I’m sure others do as well. So companies get a smattering of requests from some users here and there.
Just wondering if perhaps we focus on one or a few particular apps at a time with many people emailing, tweeting, comments on Facebook etc in a sustained way to let them see that there is actual interest from a large number of users in the Windows Phone community. Who knows, maybe if there is enough noise, some of them will rethink their stand.
Not sure if this is the right place for this, but seemed like good place to see what people think.
Thoughts?

Bad idea. Software business works by different way. No one cares about your tweets or fb posts or forum noise - it's just a children game.

I agree that it may not make a difference, however companies often do actually listen to what people are saying. If it sounds like there is a demand, some companies who have been on the fence, may well pull the trigger and make something happen.
I've had luck getting companies to do things when I ask publicly that they wouldn't do when I asked privately. So it seems like getting more people asking publicly may well help in some instances.

willp2 said:
I agree that it may not make a difference, however companies often do actually listen to what people are saying. If it sounds like there is a demand, some companies who have been on the fence, may well pull the trigger and make something happen.
I've had luck getting companies to do things when I ask publicly that they wouldn't do when I asked privately. So it seems like getting more people asking publicly may well help in some instances.
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Other than XDA, if you also post this on WPCentral forum, you will get much much much better and enthusiastic response for such requests. There is a list of app-requests somwhere in this forum too, if you wanted a place to pick apps-in-demand from.

I'm afraid you are mistaken. Companies are "listening" their marketing stuff, investors and personal CEO/chairman opinions. Neither facebook posts nor tweets can change company budget, marketing strategy or development roadmap. In fact, the most companies are controlled by the intelligent and informed people, so you may be sure they already knew about WP7 platform
P.S. Let me guess: you've never worked in software industry, don't you?

Thanks for the comments on WPCentral forum, good point. More regular users over there.
sensboston - You made my point exactly. Companies are listening to marketing staff, investors and personal CEO/chairman opinions. Those people, especially the marketing types pay attention to what the outside world is saying. If they see noise about a particular topic, it gets their attention.
For instance, if that company releases a new version of an app that has big problems, they'll hear about it first from all those social sources and they will generally try to react quickly to quite down the noise.
Not that it matters or even relevant to what I'm talking about here, but I've been in the software industry for over 20 years.

willp2 said:
For instance, if that company releases a new version of an app that has big problems, they'll hear about it first from all those social sources and they will generally try to react quickly to quite down the noise.
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It's a completely different case. Yes, I agree - huge noise/rumors about critical bug in popular app/software can push (some) companies to force fix or workaround immediately (good example is a Nokia representatives, who's - I believe - are monitoring XDA forums daily)
But porting app to the different platform (especially to WP7!) is very complicated. Most primary titles are written on C++ and uses native code/API calls. "Porting" C++ code to C#/Silverlight isn't just "porting"; it's much more close to complete rewrite. Also WP7 platform support means an additional tier of Q&A and etc. and so on (if you are really worked more than 20 years in industry you can easily extend these requirements).
100 or even 1000 facebook posts and forum requests can't show you a real app demand but statistics can. Unfortunately WP7 market share currently is too small (at the end of 2011 it was about 2%).

I thought there was a similar thread already, but if not then perhaps we can do that. I heard a company saying, they'll port it to windows phone if they enough demands.

I do get that it's not a trivial task.
Again I was really just getting at the many companies who are already considering moving to Windows Phone but are on the fence.
As we know more and more apps are being ported every week so many companies already have been thinking about, planning or are already doing it. In some cases a little public pressure may at least confirm to them that people are interested and perhaps move things along.
lamborg - sorry if someone else already brought this up in another thread, I did search around first.

willp2 said:
I do get that it's not a trivial task.
Again I was really just getting at the many companies who are already considering moving to Windows Phone but are on the fence.
As we know more and more apps are being ported every week so many companies already have been thinking about, planning or are already doing it. In some cases a little public pressure may at least confirm to them that people are interested and perhaps move things along.
lamborg - sorry if someone else already brought this up in another thread, I did search around first.
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I am not sure either but I think I have seen a similar thread, Anyway, if that cannot be found.
BTW it was I think Draw Something which said about the enough demand.

Maybe try crowd funding
Maybe this is an area where crowd funding could help.
I mean, people can make noise about want for a particular WP7 app as much as they like, but at the end of the day somebody has to pay for development, in some way, either directly or indirectly.
A successful crowd funding campaign for an app would probably prove much more that there really is demand than just so many Facebook postings.
Of course there is also the danger that such a campaign fails miserably and shows that there isn't real demand, just a very vocal but small minority wanting the app...

rbrunner7 said:
Maybe this is an area where crowd funding could help.
I mean, people can make noise about want for a particular WP7 app as much as they like, but at the end of the day somebody has to pay for development, in some way, either directly or indirectly.
A successful crowd funding campaign for an app would probably prove much more that there really is demand than just so many Facebook postings.
Of course there is also the danger that such a campaign fails miserably and shows that there isn't real demand, just a very vocal but small minority wanting the app...
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Guarantee this would not get noticed. Most users on the site don't even donate to the devs that post apps here that they use, let alone donate to some fund for the possibility of an app being ported.
Standard contractor rates for a software engineer are about $100 to $150 per hour. Salaried devs make less, but the cost is close to the same for companies because of benefits packages. So, 1 day of dev time for 1 developer is going to cost around $1000. My guess is a crowd fund would not even reach $100. But even if $10000 were collected, that would only cover a team of 5 for 2 days. And, 5 days for 20 business days would cost $100000. And this is is exactly why companies have been slow to bring apps over. It's expensive.
The other aspect is that although the syntax is similar in C#, Java, and C++; there are enough differences to make it less than a simple task to just switch over. Most devs with experience have been doing either C# or Java or C++. Most have not been doing all 3. This means paying money and taking time to get the existing devs trained or hire additional devs and transfering domain knowledge to them. Both have costs. (Note: iPhone is Objective C, which is different, but also has similarities. Same issues though)
Many companies just don't have the resources to spend when the return on investment is not short term. Long term as more consumers buy Windows Phones, it will be more economically viable for companies to invest in porting the applications.

JVH3 said:
Guarantee this would not get noticed. Most users on the site don't even donate to the devs that post apps here that they use
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He-he... Most users on the site are too lazy, greedy and irresponsible not even for donation but just for vote and review published here on XDA apps And some are so ungrateful that they forget just to say "Thanks"... Don't tell me about donations: I've collected money for Cotulla, for the Samsung's first freedom ROM for WP7... From hundreds of Focus owners here only 13 or 14 people are donated.
As for your arguments: it's 100% true for an adult professionals but of course not for 12-14 years old teens who "has over 20 years of software industry experience"

Yeah, I am myself a professional developer at day time, and I know how much it costs my company to employ me
But still, I think not all hope is lost. Some people may read this thread and just maybe change their attitude against devs that offer "free" things a little to the better - good that we talked about it, then!
And as I program in my free time anyway, just for fun, even a crowdsourced 1000 dollars could nudge me in a direction that I would not take otherwise, and people get the app they like. Of course only if the right APIs and server permissions are there to build it in the first place which of course is not always the case - many apps can only be built by the companies who own the corresponding server infrastructure.

rbrunner7 said:
Yeah, I am myself a professional developer at day time, and I know how much it costs my company to employ me
But still, I think not all hope is lost. Some people may read this thread and just maybe change their attitude against devs that offer "free" things a little to the better - good that we talked about it, then!
And as I program in my free time anyway, just for fun, even a crowdsourced 1000 dollars could nudge me in a direction that I would not take otherwise, and people get the app they like. Of course only if the right APIs and server permissions are there to build it in the first place which of course is not always the case - many apps can only be built by the companies who own the corresponding server infrastructure.
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Not to be discouraging, but it is pretty unlikely to get $1000 in donation from users here. It you look at the weather city editor that I wrote (link to thread in signature) for Windows Mobile, I got maybe close to $500 in donations from the time I created it through the entire time I worked on it, supported it, and enhanced it. I created it because I needed it and turned it into more than I needed so others could easily use it. The donations came from maybe 20 to 30 users. It was downloaded by well over 10000 users.
If looking for money as the reward, you are much better off paying Microsoft the $100 and putting the app on the marketplace and charging a dollar or making it be ad supported.
You'll still get respect for making cool things and posting them here, but it's not going to make you rich. It's a great place to learn and get some experience making apps though. Lots of people are willing to help if you get stuck on something.

It's a nice thought but, in reality it wont work
I thought about doing this too...
If you got everyone to attempt to do it, it might but, if you only get 50 people to do it(and that would be a lot in a fourm to request something they might not be interested in) that is a little bit compared to their marketplace with iOS or Android.
I personally really want Cut the Rope but, after posting a handfull of times on their facebook page and even emailing customer service, no luck

Anyone tried j2objc yet?

Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.

lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
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just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?

lapucele said:
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?
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Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James

Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James
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wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.

lapucele said:
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.
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Just thought I'd mention as I only heard yesterday, but the newest edition of the app store for Apple is called AppCake for Apple. Apparently Apple is now going about systematically shutting down every 3rd party non-apple owned store including the non so legitimate suppliers of of Apple after market hardware products. That means everyone with anything that connects to an apple product that isn't apple or made by apple is a target. Geeese they don't let up do they? Developers mention that Apple will never be able to shut them down :silly: that they can and will do what they like with their iDevices cause they own them.
Oh and other thing to look out for if you go to Apple/iTunes, is this company Lodsys who are world renowned for being patent trolls who are systematically targeting individual developers for breaches in copy right for, get this......'in app purchasing' they claim that they invented it and are now suing several developers from iTunes (them personally) for using the iTunes supplied SDK for in app purchasing. Apple is doing the right thing and trying to defend these developers but the World IP org and US patents office can't do a god damned thing about it until things hurry up and get pushed through a ballot of senators to have groups like them shut down. Until then they are working their best and fastest with trying to sue as many people as they can! Unfortunately for most its a loosing battle as they don't have the money or resources to fight these bastards so they end up paying up. In an new interview I heard one company claimed it was cheeper to settle for 100K out of court than what it was to commit to defending them selves even though this group targeting them was 100% wrong.
But not meaning to scare you...or anything just keeping you filled in. Me personally I would write them a letter saying 4 words on one line followed by 4 words on a second line "Go f*%# your self" "See you in court" and go seek one of my dad's barrister friends to do it no win no fee. Screw that. I would be flaunting that I have in app purchasing sayin come at me bro
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/04/app-developers-lodsys-back
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/hey-patent-trolls-pick-someone-your-own-size
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/...t-patent-trolls-and-not-going-take-it-anymore

Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.

out of ideas said:
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Research and Understanding
Yes that is exactly what I am saying. To run Apple in a VM is in breach of their TOS and Usage policy. It also entitles them to seek prosecution also; so not just a ban from iTunes. Going by Apples past history I wouldn't put it past them? Although now with Tim Cook in charge of things I think Apple is going about things a bit more differently now? For better or worse (people had their opinions of Steve Jobs - personally I disliked him but did appreciate his success and achievements for what they stacked up to be, personal opinions aside it takes a great person to do such) Apple is starting to become a bit more valued in collaborations as this is what Tim Cook always wanted working for Apple that he was never able to have whilst Steve was the master of the helm. Tim Cook was more about getting the job done and sharing. Steve's ongoing vendetta litigations were not Tim Cooks choice and/or advice. He didn't want such things from what I have read? More recently his involvement in legal matters has been observed as retracted and no confronting; he has proceeded to do these actions as part of Steve Jobs dying wishes and nothing more.
As far as I can tell he wants to nothing more than to get things out of the way and over and done with so that he and his company can move on.
My thoughts on this as an observer in the mobile tech industry is that I think Apple has dropped the ball a bit, and it is probably far too little far too late. However with a company with that much money behind it? There's only speculations about what holds in the future of Apple? They are certainly not going away or going to fall in to ruins that's for certain.
What I mean is that, yes there has been a heap of legal stuff seen by Apple and most of it very negative, but my feeling is that this won't be the case here on into the future, so the likelihood of facing a court for breach of Terms of Use are likely to be very small. I am sure that editing a build.prop is considered a breach of Google's TOS for use of a device in their Playstore?
Suggestions
My suggestion is to give it a try I have had some issues setting up my VM but have got all the necessary resources including all the software. I have just become too busy and it is not high on the priority list at the moment. I wanted to try gain an understanding of how Apple detects it's visitors. I mean iTunes is cross platform Windows and Mac (There is no release for Ubuntu or Linux AFAIK? only Wine type hacks) I know when I visit the iTunes webpage I am automatically prompted to download a Windows installer package. So they must have some form of automatic detection? Being that the likes of Virtualbox uses a shared internet connection I would speculate that you would need to choose the correct adapter settings so that your VM is seen to be a running physical machine and not a able to be identified as a shared connection or virtualised connection?
I didn't get this far as my installation has many issues. I still have the VM though for future interest. Feel free to PM me if you give it a try and don't succeed and I am happy to share what things I discovered in my problem solving.
Understanding Limitations for Cross Platform Mobile Development
As for the porting to OS's I believe there are many offerings around now that provide developers with a cross platform arrangement. Essentially only the UI resources need to change and then that plugs into a framework structure for your application to run in. You compile the code individual applications that are specific to the platform but you ARE able to develop your main code independent of the platforms. Languages such as Flex or Rubi on rails are going to be your best bet from my research?
Things You Should Consider
1. Single code repository
2. Individual application frameworks - compilation of application runtime for independent OS type
3. Limitations are stipulated and governed by what is allow at the lowest possible denominator. i.e. You can only build code into your single code repository that can accessed by the functionality of both(or all) platforms. What I mean is that there is no use building a single code repository that uses a function that is limited on one platform and not the other, another example is restrictions dictated to you by the likes of such companies like Apple. They have a strict guidelines and what is potentially available to you may not be in its context. Just because certain functionality is available to you in the Apple platform and you have even seen it in use on Apple devices does not necessarily mean that you can build and release it. In it's context Apple may not like what you are doing with your app and not approve it.
Your single point of code and it entirety has just shrunk in functionality to both devices now. So be careful and Anticipate what you might think the outcome is for your Application facing such scrutinisation and what it could possibly mean for your project as a whole?
On this note I have heard of developers making scripts and add-ons for their said central repository that allows them to restrict things ats compile time. For instance having greyed out selections in menus and a toast like notification to users like "Sorry this functionality is only available to Android users" and things like that.
Hope this helps contribute towards people considering on such ventures. Do your research. Find out what types of apps have been rejected from being published and find the reasons for why?

lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will check it in next week

[Q] Fire TV. HDMI to VGA converter.

Hi this is my first post. I'm looking at buying the Fire TV stick but my TV has no HDMI socket. My TV is a Panasonic Viera TH-42PE30 and I'm wanting to know what converters will work with this TV and the fire TV stick. I've been told that some converters haven't worked for some people. Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated as I'm looking at purchasing both the fire TV and the converter together.

They make HDMI to DVI and VGA cables should work fine. That's how my PC is running at the moment HDMI out of video card to DVI on my monitor. The HDMI port went bad

Keep in mind that there might be problems with the HDCP copy protection of the HDMI output. If it´s activated within the FireTV many converter may delivered only a black picture on VGA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection

edit removed wrong links provided.
No comments about quality, because those things have to do a signal conversion. Its not a simple "cable", all of them are doing signal processing.
Also you might run into problems with HDMIs copy protection.

No comments about quality, because those things have to do a signal conversion. Its not a simple "cable", all of them are doing signal processing.
Also you might run into problems with HDMIs copy protection.[/QUOTE]
So do you think both of those might work?

How likely do you think it is, that I spend the 10 dollars and the effort of hooking up the Fire TV to a VGA port, just to figure out which parts of the video output amazon encrypts with HDCP?
Also - there is a hint in there what you should google next to find out how android devices usually are set up in regards to a certain form of copy protection.
Or you just spend the 10 USD and then come back to tell others - highly unlikely concept, trying something and then reporting back... Nobody does it on social platforms today. Not enough upvotes. people care about the occasional insight into a field, because it makes them feel like they are diverse in their interests, but really, the second time around, it already feels somewhat old. Ask into the aether, wait for the Answer to come back. No filter, no quality control, just random noise. And if you feel like you really want a more valid answer, just venture out and try to exploit a tech community. XDA made a video for this demographic once.
Also, just as a tip - there is a reason that I cant tell how the image quality on these things would be today - even in third world countries - and I mean this in no way demeaning - the proliferation of HDMI enabled TVs is high enough that they start to reach lower income households. Thanks to offbrands. There is absolutely no market anymore for those converters. Thats why they now are in the 10 dollar impulse buy category.
Now you want buying advice on that... Ask your walmart sales rep often which 10USD coffee is the best? Ask some one who worked at those specially retailers, who now go bankrupt, because they were in the business of hiring people who understood what they were selling first, and were salesmen only after that? Then buy it on amazon. You know - the difference between Rhine capitalism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Albert ) and whatever form americans are living in contrast to that today.
The economy in an internet forum is really not made for such requests. You bring nothing, you've invested nothing, you take value, you learn nothing that would prevent you from needing personal treatment the next time around, then you repeat the process whenever another need comes along. You exploited others when this still was a job they were paid for by companies - now you are exploiting nameless random people on the internet.
Face it - at least to some extend. Or be happy with the "there be cables" answer, because - there is no middle ground. The economy to provide you with informed and detailed answers simply does not exist.
Do something for yourself, show engagement, search before you ask - and dont fake it, because it just makes you a person who now knowingly abuses others for their benefit.
(And please follow, click subscribe and become a premium member of my one person brand. I get 20% of the proceedings. - You know, the new type of artist, we currently all like so much. Clickingly.)
---------- Post added at 09:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 PM ----------
Also, this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/fire-tv/help/to-disable-hdcp-t2888934
Thank god for copy protection.
edit: And if you are really in need for a solution, read this: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com...magic_intensity_ps3_owners_read_here_101.html

I can sum it up for you. Just buying a cable that says HDMI to VGA will not work. You have to actually have a converter. Converters for what you are wanting to do usually cost around $40 minmum. The cables are usually used in conjunction with PCI type converters. PCI type converters will not work with the Fire TV since they only work with PCs, so you will need a converter that plugs into an electric outlet.

Actually - I learned something today.
I learned, that amazon.com now does freely sell devices that strip HDCP out of the signal into the american market. Which of course is illegal.
So search for hdmi vga dac hdcp
and read the product descriptions and or comments.
Whatever those boxes cost, they cost 16+ USD from an asia based vendor. Also - because they are this cheap in production (it doesn't count that some vendors sell them for tripple their price), your monitor better supports 1080p natively. With the correct scaling (picture not squished or cut off) and everything.
According to a german amazon post by a customer who talked to their technical support, the FIre TV (not the stick) needs at least a HDCP 1.3 compatibility - at least this was suggested by an answer regarding potential sound issues.
So whatever device you end up buying in the end, it should have the ability to strip HDCP 1.3.
Also - Im suddenly much more forthcoming, because I accidentally, initially provided two links to devices that will not fit your questions profile (just looked for the right connectors (male/female), didnt read that they still werent dac (Digital to Analog converters - which is what you need)) - so I'm in "making good" mode. Because if you are talking as harshly as I was, imho you have to be correct down to the last details.

Wow, thank you all so much. I'm not really a tech guy but I can tell you I'm very appreciative of all the information provided. I will have a look at some converters and let you know how I get on. Thank you again

Its just a very unfruitful question - because the real answer is "buy something that has a HDMI port, everything does - nowadays". The followup answer is, to achieve this your way, you need something that converts the signal. Which is not just "buying a cable" - this thing has to have a chip in it. The follow up answer to that is, that those devices commercially only make sense anymore, if they are dirt cheap, which might lead to signal quality issues (also, potential scaling issues).
The next problem is the copy protection layer (HDCP 1.3) which has to be removed so you can even convert the digital HDMI signal to analog VGA. This wasnt always possible. Also - I would not openly talk about this information, if not amazon themselves were suddenly selling those devices in their store. So I'm choosing just not to share links.
At which point you also have to take into account the different versions of HDCP (because the industry doesnt like broken copy protection standards and writes new ones) and which one you have to circumvent.
And what for? First - copy protection at a point in the signal path, where currently only game streamers rip anything. And second - all that for something that increasingly even woulndt be an issue anymore in third world markets. Because everything nowadays has a HDMI port (- supporting or stripping HDCP). So this is all theoretical, and practical for almost no one in here. Which is why "should I buy this one, or that one" is even harder to answer.

harlekinrains said:
Its just a very unfruitful question - because the real answer is "buy something that has a HDMI port, everything does - nowadays". The followup answer is, to achieve this your way, you need something that converts the signal. Which is not just "buying a cable" - this thing has to have a chip in it. The follow up answer to that is, that those devices commercially only make sense anymore, if they are dirt cheap, which might lead to signal quality issues (also, potential scaling issues).
The next problem is the copy protection layer (HDCP 1.3) which has to be removed so you can even convert the digital HDMI signal to analog VGA. This wasnt always possible. Also - I would not openly talk about this information, if not amazon themselves were suddenly selling those devices in their store. So I'm choosing just not to share links.
At which point you also have to take into account the different versions of HDCP (because the industry doesnt like broken copy protection standards and writes new ones) and which one you have to circumvent.
And what for? First - copy protection at a point in the signal path, where currently only game streamers rip anything. And second - all that for something that increasingly even woulndt be an issue anymore in third world markets. Because everything nowadays has a HDMI port (- supporting or stripping HDCP). So this is all theoretical, and practical for almost no one in here. Which is why "should I buy this one, or that one" is even harder to answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate its not easy to answer but thank you for trying to do anyway. You've really helped me out so thanks! I'll be sure to let you know how I get on.

Does not work. Tried it. You need a converter that has its own power source, cable or other so called converter powered by USB will not work. You need something like this:
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B00AQMZI0Y/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AGP6GC0L2FALW
Most cost effective one I've seen with good reviews.
I'very tried a few others that have not worked which is why I'm confident in what I'm saying. Good thing about AMAZON, hassle free return if it doesn't work.

To reiterate again, I wouldnt have answered the question properly, If I hadn't indadvertedly messed up and linked to two wrong items in the shortform statement. (The hints toward solving the problems were right, the links were wrong.)
I dont care how much this helped your case specifically . I simply dont accept a simple line of heartfelt gratitude as "currency". Is it decent - sure. I'm just not motivated by it at all. Not before I read the question, not after the fact.
And if you feel the need to emphasize your gratitude again I have clearly done something wrong here - my motivation was to show, that it is not ok, to drag a picture perfect example of an egoistically motivated request into a public forum, without any research or intellectual investment on your part - and then expect a short solution delivered to you on a platter.
The investment of people who are clued in is so much larger on their part, and is almost solely concentrated on you personally - without any chance, that this will help many others, that it becomes necessary to demand work from you as well. Not gratitude. You acquiring information yourself and therefore rethinking the approach of exploiting the community.
This goes differently, when a community is highly active and you have many people reitering the snippets of information they just learned and helping each other out, because it is encouraging for them. Which is by the way what support forums sell to advertisers (Context matters).
See the difference in the approach, see the resulting difference in motivation.
If you dont want to learn or reciprocate yourself - do what the last poster did, and exploit a company that factors in consumer support/returns into a business model. That way it can at least be measured by capitalism as a social structure.
What you are doing is effectively destroying social structures. You take all efforts that go into problem solving, and give back no value in return. Again, gratitude does not count.
And by the way - you are lucky and in the end some one else had the very same problem and had to solve it for themselves. When they have done so - they put in the work for themselves (in this case by exploiting a companies return policy), and sharing doesnt take much effort on top of it. But looking for others to solve your problem - not parts of it, just the problem entirely - is a different animal. My motivation then is to first refute the false answers that come out of the "well I dont care who..." "well I dont care so much about how either, but I have heard" exchanges that follow. At the end of which no one even cares so much about if its factually correct or not - or even to mention the outcome.
I made an error at that stage.
And this is the only reason, why I have become this active in here - because suddenly it potentially impacted my reputation negatively.
The problem with information ecosystems is, that information nowadays is practically free, but filtering and researching it - is not. Always try to remember that.

harlekinrains said:
To reiterate again, I wouldnt have answered the question properly, If I hadn't indadvertedly messed up and linked to two wrong items in the shortform statement. (The hints toward solving the problems were right, the links were wrong.)
I dont care how much this helped your case specifically . I simply dont accept a simple line of heartfelt gratitude as "currency". Is it decent - sure. I'm just not motivated by it at all. Not before I read the question, not after the fact.
And if you feel the need to emphasize your gratitude again I have clearly done something wrong here - my motivation was to show, that it is not ok, to drag a picture perfect example of an egoistically motivated request into a public forum, without any research or intellectual investment on your part - and then expect a short solution delivered to you on a platter.
The investment of people who are clued in is so much larger on their part, and is almost solely concentrated on you personally - without any chance, that this will help many others, that it becomes necessary to demand work from you as well. Not gratitude. You acquiring information yourself and therefore rethinking the approach of exploiting the community.
This goes differently, when a community is highly active and you have many people reitering the snippets of information they just learned and helping each other out, because it is encouraging for them. Which is by the way what support forums sell to advertisers (Context matters).
See the difference in the approach, see the resulting difference in motivation.
If you dont want to learn or reciprocate yourself - do what the last poster did, and exploit a company that factors in consumer support/returns into a business model. That way it can at least be measured by capitalism as a social structure.
What you are doing is effectively destroying social structures. You take all efforts that go into problem solving, and give back no value in return. Again, gratitude does not count.
And by the way - you are lucky and in the end some one else had the very same problem and had to solve it for themselves. When they have done so - they put in the work for themselves (in this case by exploiting a companies return policy), and sharing doesnt take much effort on top of it. But looking for others to solve your problem - not parts of it, just the problem entirely - is a different animal. My motivation then is to first refute the false answers that come out of the "well I dont care who..." "well I dont care so much about how either, but I have heard" exchanges that follow. At the end of which no one even cares so much about if its factually correct or not - or even to mention the outcome.
I made an error at that stage.
And this is the only reason, why I have become this active in here - because suddenly it potentially impacted my reputation negatively.
The problem with information ecosystems is, that information nowadays is practically free, but filtering and researching it - is not. Always try to remember that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clearly you have too much time on your hands.

harlekinrains said:
To reiterate again, I wouldnt have answered the question properly, If I hadn't indadvertedly messed up and linked to two wrong items in the shortform statement. (The hints toward solving the problems were right, the links were wrong.)
I dont care how much this helped your case specifically . I simply dont accept a simple line of heartfelt gratitude as "currency". Is it decent - sure. I'm just not motivated by it at all. Not before I read the question, not after the fact.
And if you feel the need to emphasize your gratitude again I have clearly done something wrong here - my motivation was to show, that it is not ok, to drag a picture perfect example of an egoistically motivated request into a public forum, without any research or intellectual investment on your part - and then expect a short solution delivered to you on a platter.
The investment of people who are clued in is so much larger on their part, and is almost solely concentrated on you personally - without any chance, that this will help many others, that it becomes necessary to demand work from you as well. Not gratitude. You acquiring information yourself and therefore rethinking the approach of exploiting the community.
This goes differently, when a community is highly active and you have many people reitering the snippets of information they just learned and helping each other out, because it is encouraging for them. Which is by the way what support forums sell to advertisers (Context matters).
See the difference in the approach, see the resulting difference in motivation.
If you dont want to learn or reciprocate yourself - do what the last poster did, and exploit a company that factors in consumer support/returns into a business model. That way it can at least be measured by capitalism as a social structure.
What you are doing is effectively destroying social structures. You take all efforts that go into problem solving, and give back no value in return. Again, gratitude does not count.
And by the way - you are lucky and in the end some one else had the very same problem and had to solve it for themselves. When they have done so - they put in the work for themselves (in this case by exploiting a companies return policy), and sharing doesnt take much effort on top of it. But looking for others to solve your problem - not parts of it, just the problem entirely - is a different animal. My motivation then is to first refute the false answers that come out of the "well I dont care who..." "well I dont care so much about how either, but I have heard" exchanges that follow. At the end of which no one even cares so much about if its factually correct or not - or even to mention the outcome.
I made an error at that stage.
And this is the only reason, why I have become this active in here - because suddenly it potentially impacted my reputation negatively.
The problem with information ecosystems is, that information nowadays is practically free, but filtering and researching it - is not. Always try to remember that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure who this is aimed at or what you are trying to say. My gut feeling is that you're offended that I asked for some information to something. It was merely a question that I asked. For your information I have done a lot of research but am not the most technically savvy person when it comes to this. Why some people feel the need to have knowledge and not share it is beyond me, but that is your choice.I thanked you for your help, just as I have everyone else for theirs, accept it or don't, that's up to you. I did not intend to offend but am thankful for the help I have received
I agree with the post above, maybe you have too much time on your hands.

I'm using this one, you can extract the sound from the HDMI too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-HDMI-Ma...473?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d40dfe01

chuandinh said:
I'm using this one, you can extract the sound from the HDMI too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-HDMI-Ma...473?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d40dfe01
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow I didn't think anything like this would work. I have an old Panasonic viera so I'm hoping something like this might work as would be a lot cheaper that way. Thank you for posting:good:

>Wow I didn't think anything like this would work.
If you had read amazon reviews, you' have found out that some of those models strip HDCP as well. Just saying. They advertise it as "compatible with DVD players, Playstation 3 and XBOX", because its illegal.

harlekinrains said:
>Wow I didn't think anything like this would work.
If you had read amazon reviews, you' have found out that some of those models strip HDCP as well. Just saying. They advertise it as "compatible with DVD players, Playstation 3 and XBOX", because its illegal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was there really any need? I have read reviews about this so stop making such a big deal about this. People are trying to help, yet you seem intent on making out what I've done is wrong. Nobody else has reacted like you, I suggest you don't post if it annoys you so much

Yes there was a need. Focusing on the form factor is harmful, when more than half of those adapters (same form factor) dont strip DHCP from the signal.
Linking to certain ebay sellers or product rebrands is solicitation. Also ebay auctions are gone within a few weeks which might induce the search for similar looking models. "I never thought it would be possible within this form factor" - without context - is drawing potentially harmful conclusions that others could copy and end up with non working devices.
Those are two reasons why It was necessary to break the focus on form factor - and focus on the stripping DHCP part again. As far as price point is concerned, 16USD from some sources also was old news. (This one is 10 USD with no mention of DHCP stripping in the product description (could still be in it) and one anonymous recommendation from someone on the internet.)
This is enough for me to feel the need to become active again.