Develop Bugs

Android without having to run it in WM?

I wanted to ask, if there is an Android version that is running without haret.exe. Cause Android is flying and since the WiFi works it really kicks ass. And it will be even faster without having WM running in the background. Isn't it possible to like extract the Bootloader from the Hero or G1?

It would be nice of you to stick to the other Android threads. (http://gprime.net/flash.php/postingandyou)
The developers stated they prefer to concentrate on a near feature complete build with squashfs as it is. Only if that works (progress in the recent time has been really good) a more permanent solution will be investigated.

Questions about memory (yes I have read the various tips)

Ok, so my wife still has her tp2 and I upgraded it to tmobiles 6.5, then I flashed cell pro rom, leo cell pro, and finally went back to tmobile 6.5. When I had my tp2 I went through about a dozen roms all 6.5.(x in some cases) with sense 2.1 or 2.5. I eventually went back to 6.1 with tf3d 2.1 before I gave up and went for android.
My issue is the massive memory consumption with 6.5/sense. The stock upgrade runs at 70% used ideling. On both our phones I have done the res proxy tweak (setting it to 0/dynamic, and in some cases also deleting resprocy key from HKCU/software/htc/bootlauncher). I have run the no push internet (though tmobile doesnt use push internet on their roms but what the heck right?), I have installed SKTools and had its shadow services running in the background cleaning ram as I go; which doesnt seem to do a damn thing in WM 6.5 unlike in 6.1 it would keep the ram down to 49% used even after two weeks of use). With all of these tweaks, the ram creeps up to 70% again. Granted it boots up at 47% with all of these tweaks and seems like it will idle at around 55-60% fr a while, but then after a few hours of use it is back up to 70%. Sure clean ram will drop it 10-20%, but how is that acceptable to have that program do a cleanup every 3 hours just so the device is functional? At this rate, I have a single tasking phone that is multitask-able once every three hours before the memory is so low I (well now she) has to decide what program she wants to use.
So many of you are saying "Just use a custom rom". Sure, fine, did that. Several times on both phones and guess what? While the bootup may start out lower with the above tweaks, or higher, the end result is ALWAYS something about 70+% after a few hours. On the stock 6.1/tf3d she and I could go a month without a reboot to clean things up, but 6.5 and 6.5.x get to the point were even clean ram can only drop the usage down to about 69%, which quickly just goes right back to 70+%
So I read all the memory issue post and see people claim to keep a constant 60% or 66% and I cry "BS!" I just don't buy it. They post tips that I have tried and nothing works. When these people are asked what they do to manage it, they offer nothing new (I even tried setting the system cache to dangerously low levels as one post recommended!). So I am left to believe they are not being completely truthful or their is some super secret technique out there that does this. If there isnt, how can anybody be happy with having only 30-20% of their memory left for their use? Are you all just using one program at a time? when I used windows mobile I had several programs running at once because it was quicker to switch between my commonly used programs, and my wife is the same way. Now with this upgrade, its one or two programs allowed and the moment you open a third you run the risk of closing one of the other two.... but don't worry, they will be closed in about 5 minutes when cleanram runs it's sweep effectively rendering it a feature phone.
Please someone help me understand the super secret memory management technique everyone but me is using.
Before it is mentioned, I have done several test installing ONLY the rom upgrade or custom rom and not installing third party apps; just using the built in apps: Same result. 6.5 is nice and smooth in its function and she would like to use it, (6.1 was a little slow on some apps and its transcriber would skip; both of these issues are 100% gone in the upgrade).

cirrob said:
Ok, so my wife still has her tp2 and I upgraded it to tmobiles 6.5, then I flashed cell pro rom, leo cell pro, and finally went back to tmobile 6.5. When I had my tp2 I went through about a dozen roms all 6.5.(x in some cases) with sense 2.1 or 2.5. I eventually went back to 6.1 with tf3d 2.1 before I gave up and went for android.
My issue is the massive memory consumption with 6.5/sense. The stock upgrade runs at 70% used ideling. On both our phones I have done the res proxy tweak (setting it to 0/dynamic, and in some cases also deleting resprocy key from HKCU/software/htc/bootlauncher). I have run the no push internet (though tmobile doesnt use push internet on their roms but what the heck right?), I have installed SKTools and had its shadow services running in the background cleaning ram as I go; which doesnt seem to do a damn thing in WM 6.5 unlike in 6.1 it would keep the ram down to 49% used even after two weeks of use). With all of these tweaks, the ram creeps up to 70% again. Granted it boots up at 47% with all of these tweaks and seems like it will idle at around 55-60% fr a while, but then after a few hours of use it is back up to 70%. Sure clean ram will drop it 10-20%, but how is that acceptable to have that program do a cleanup every 3 hours just so the device is functional? At this rate, I have a single tasking phone that is multitask-able once every three hours before the memory is so low I (well now she) has to decide what program she wants to use.
So many of you are saying "Just use a custom rom". Sure, fine, did that. Several times on both phones and guess what? While the bootup may start out lower with the above tweaks, or higher, the end result is ALWAYS something about 70+% after a few hours. On the stock 6.1/tf3d she and I could go a month without a reboot to clean things up, but 6.5 and 6.5.x get to the point were even clean ram can only drop the usage down to about 69%, which quickly just goes right back to 70+%
So I read all the memory issue post and see people claim to keep a constant 60% or 66% and I cry "BS!" I just don't buy it. They post tips that I have tried and nothing works. When these people are asked what they do to manage it, they offer nothing new (I even tried setting the system cache to dangerously low levels as one post recommended!). So I am left to believe they are not being completely truthful or their is some super secret technique out there that does this. If there isnt, how can anybody be happy with having only 30-20% of their memory left for their use? Are you all just using one program at a time? when I used windows mobile I had several programs running at once because it was quicker to switch between my commonly used programs, and my wife is the same way. Now with this upgrade, its one or two programs allowed and the moment you open a third you run the risk of closing one of the other two.... but don't worry, they will be closed in about 5 minutes when cleanram runs it's sweep effectively rendering it a feature phone.
Please someone help me understand the super secret memory management technique everyone but me is using.
Before it is mentioned, I have done several test installing ONLY the rom upgrade or custom rom and not installing third party apps; just using the built in apps: Same result. 6.5 is nice and smooth in its function and she would like to use it, (6.1 was a little slow on some apps and its transcriber would skip; both of these issues are 100% gone in the upgrade).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't offer any magic bullets here for you I'm afraid, but I just wanted to say that I think the blame can be squarely placed on Sense, as opposed to wm6.5 so much. Not to say that 6.5 is some kind of streamlined OS, but just try using the phone for a day, or even just a few hours, with Sense turned off, and this will become obvious.
I know that's not terribly insightful, but in problem solving you always want to divide and conquer, so you can at least know which of those two ways to direct your efforts. I wish you luck, honestly...I think there's a lot more TP2 owners out there who experience it exactly as you do, if not worse. My personal experience on my recent upgrade to a stock 6.5 ROM is slightly better than yours, but no more than 10%, and I'm fastidious about manual memory management (through pretty much the same methods you've listed). The only other thing I do that I don't see a lot of other users here doing, that I believe helps me sidestep other lagging issues, is keeping my sms folders trimmed at all times...as in, no more than 45-50 messages in there live at any given time. Will your memory load decrease if you do the same? I dunno, it's just the only other thing I could think of that you haven't already mentioned

Is "sense" the default UI? The HTC one I mean?

RedRamage said:
Is "sense" the default UI? The HTC one I mean?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On most TP2's yes....there were a few carrier ROMs (like the first tmobile WM6.1 ROM) that had the precursor to Sense, aka TF3D, but most carrier's ROMs either came with Sense or have now been upgraded to it.

Thanks Sirphunkee for your response. After several days of searching and finding no one able to give any sort of real answer to the massive memory consumption sense uses, I have sence reverted her phone back to the stock rom at her request (I dont blame her: 66-73% consumed when ideling is simply not acceptable by any standards). If al she were doing is running the homescreen plugin (sense) I guess this might be fine, but she actually uses the tp2 for other things than just looking at it and scrolling from tab to tab.
After going back to the stock rom, she is now able to use 8 programs at once and still have 45% of her memory available. The machine is snappy and functional even with that type of load on it. The most she could accomplish with 6.5/sense was maybe 5 programs but the machine came screeming to a halt.
I have to say, I am pretty impressed with android however. While it isnt quite where windows mobile was as far as being a completely useful tool (A LOT of uterly useless apps; more sound boards, backgrounds, and fart apps than any teenage boy could ever want!), but its on its way. I just wish it had a true apperatus for syncing to the desktop. This way developers could create companion apps for their software that I could sync with on my desktop. I absolutely hate visiting a website for my data.

cirrob said:
After going back to the stock rom, she is now able to use 8 programs at once and still have 45% of her memory available. The machine is snappy and functional even with that type of load on it. The most she could accomplish with 6.5/sense was maybe 5 programs but the machine came screeming to a halt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad you got something that works the way you want...but 8 programs running at once?! I assume that you're not joking...?
I'm sure that the reason you couldn't find much help on how to free up memory to the level you want is because nobody else needs to run that many programs at once.
Just curious: what 8 programs would a person need to run at the same time? And it's not useful with "only" 3 or 4 programs running simultaneously?
Of course, it's none of my business...I've just never heard of wanting to run that many programs simultaneously. I don't even do that on my PC at work (engineering R&D).
FWIW: My phone (running the ROM in my sig) boots at about 62% memory used and slowly grows. I run cleanRAM when memory use gets well above 70% (even though the phone still seems to perform fine at that level). That usually brings it down by about 15MB. Eventually cleanRAM can't do enough and I soft-reset. I don't find it difficult or inconvenient to do a soft-reset since it only takes a couple of minutes. I find that an acceptable compromise to avoid having to use the inconvenient 6.1 with 2.1. After running 6.5.5 for the past 4 or 5 months I can't even go back to regular 6.5.
YMMV...and obviously does!

Honestly, when my phone (Tilt 2) wakes me up in the morning with the alarm, I immediately do a soft reset while I evacuate fluids and brush teeth. It is good for the day. I tend to hover around 60%.
But I am running the stock Tilt 2 rom which is still 2.1

Don't want to make any form of advertising or spam, but I honestly think that you should try my Hybrid ROM. Sense 2.5 and WM6.1 improves the used memory a lot. Now I have fixed all important incompatibility bugs, so it's reliable and much faster then any other Sense 2.5 rom. If you don't care about the WM6.5 eye-candy and you're prepared for some stylus use, try it.

cirrob said:
I have to say, I am pretty impressed with android however. While it isnt quite where windows mobile was as far as being a completely useful tool (A LOT of uterly useless apps; more sound boards, backgrounds, and fart apps than any teenage boy could ever want!), but its on its way. I just wish it had a true apperatus for syncing to the desktop. This way developers could create companion apps for their software that I could sync with on my desktop. I absolutely hate visiting a website for my data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So there's a tool to convert the iPhone marketplace to Android marketplace? Neat.

Honestly mine does great runnin latest energy rom with the ssk and push internet + memory leak mod. have weather animation disabled and also turned off animation on cookie tabs. amazingly quick. my memory runs bout 60% idle.. which is great compared to what it was on the stock att rom. energyrom 4/17/10 6.5 with sense 2.5

Newbie to TP2..Asking Some Genral Ques..

Well Hello Fellows...
As u ppls can see on my Sig...i just returned my Htc G1 due to some keyboard issue..and i m ready to do some nasty work for my TP2 but i need some answers before doing something with my TP2..
1st-- y we need some custom rom like 6.5.5...while we are already getting everything on the stock rom..and custom roms are same as stock rom some of the difference that the apps tab icons are big(as i am seeing on Custom Rom )<---- Prove me if i m wrong about it
2nd-- i m sooooooo exited to see android on HP2 and i really appreciate the hard work of the developers but i will wait till complete rom comes out ...and my main cause was to buy that machine is to use android on it but i need some user experience.....
3-- i want to know that difference between dual boot ..
3a --- as i saw that a dev created an app that we can directly boot android when we turn on the phone without booting in to WM...
3b---other is that 1st we need to turn on windows mobile then android ...
4--i will ask later when i get my other answers
i want to know which process is best like which process drain minimum battery and run android kinda normal speed...i know that its not that fast but come on ..
these are the main ques that are like dancing all time in my mind..Plz ignore my dictionary and answer my ques
ThankYou..

1. Different ROMs provide different experiences. For instance, the 6.5.x ROMs have a more finger-friendly navigation altogether, with the Windows Start button being at the bottom of the screen instead of the top.
Different ROMs will also give you different benefits. NRGZ ROM comes cooked with a radio app that doesn't need headphones (but of course, if you have a CDMA TP2, you won't have a radio to begin with). Deep Shine ROM makes the most of the Zoom Bar down at the bottom of the screen of your TP2. And Valkyrie's ROMs (the one I use) provides the most stability.
Note though that 6.5.x ROMs tend to be slower than most stock-ROMs.
2. You should just try Android for yourself. In my experience, Android was good. I actually downloaded the Facebook app with it, right after I downloaded the Facebook app for WinMo. So it was funny to see those two updates on my Facebook.
Regardless, sound doesn't work, and Camera doesn't work. When those two functions work, I myself will probably be using Android more than WinMo. I don't care much about BT. Look in the Android section of this sub-forum, find out for yourself.
3. Dual-boot simply allows you to boot one operating system first. So say you didn't want to boot WinMo first, then Android, the dev's app allows your to just boot Android first before WinMo. Simple as that.
Ask anything else, but take a look around first.

thanks buddy for your quick reply
well i have Vodafone Tp2..idk that is Cdma or not right now i using stock rom for windows mobile 6.5.5..that what the device says it have Sense UI i think TF3d 2.5...so i saw not much difference between my stock rom and the custom rom..and for the android ques well i was asking that which way is better ot use android like i think if i boot throught windows mobile then windows mobile will also take some ram else if i directly turn on android then android will use all the ram.and atleast runs better for this direct process and drain less battery....thats what i think and well i watched alot of videos and surfing web for this like 2weeks before asking these ques....
4---well for some games i want to use fpecse emulator...so any way to overclock the tp2..becoz i saw some of the videos of the emulator on Hd2 .. it runs the game pretty smooth...
5--App2SD..well can we use ap2sd on TP2 while using android?? <---Dump ques

4. There isn't a way (yet) to overclock your TP2. Oddly enough, Android on the TP2 is overclocked. But overclocking it via WinMo isn't possible as of current.
Regardless, playing certain games on FPSCE like FF7 works just fine. The more graphically enhanced the game is, the more the phone will lag. Every game I've loaded onto my phone (including the graphically beautiful Call of Duty 2) has worked just fine. Certain games are only in VGA, so download the WVGA fix (it's located in the "Programs to Download for your TP2" thread in the sub-section "Themes and Apps").
5. I wouldn't know about that, but if you want to put programs on your SD card, I believe they have a fix for that in the Android programs already. So, see that thread in "Android Development."

thanks mate for your quick reply .. well what about ram consuming?? speed effects.. direct android boot or android through windmo??
i know that i need to test it my self but also want to know the ppls expreience about android

[Q] ROM Options

I'm sure there's some thread somewhere about this, but I haven't found one after searching quite a while.
What ROMs are people using for Windows Mobile before loading XDAndroid? Searching Android Rom doesn't seem to work very well and I've tried several other options.
I'm looking for a lighter rom, but I'd like to have 6.5.3 so when I can't use XDAndroid (like when I need speakerphone or camera) then I'll still have a system I like.
If there's already a thread somewhere for this sorry, please point me at it.

There's been some debate about whether or not the ROM effects Android at all. I'm of the belief that the particular ROM you're running has NO bearing on Android whatsoever. There are others who say differently... But I've run the "lightest" ROM possible - basically boots WinMo enough to immeidately kick off Haret...and I found no difference in performance.
This was on my original TP, but the concept should be the same.
So, I just run EnergyROM. But, try it out - let us know what you think. Install a light ROM and see if there's a difference... I don't think there is, and the placebo effect plays very greatly into this without some hard numbers on performance differences. Since WinMo is booted out of memory, I honestly don't think the ROM effects Android at all.

I was thinking more along the lines of space still left in storage, but depending on how the roms are done and how much you install I guess the rom isn't a huge difference.

zharptitza said:
I was thinking more along the lines of space still left in storage, but depending on how the roms are done and how much you install I guess the rom isn't a huge difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hrm... Either I'm misundertsanding you, or you're misunderstood
Android runs entirely off of the SD card presently. So whatever space is leftover from flashing the ROM, it won't really matter... because currently Android doesn't touch the space that a WinMo ROM takes up. Make sense?

Using Energy Rom here and the reefer BLAZIN build runs great parallel to it. Although I also believe The winMo rom you are running makes no difference.

arrrghhh said:
Hrm... Either I'm misundertsanding you, or you're misunderstood
Android runs entirely off of the SD card presently. So whatever space is leftover from flashing the ROM, it won't really matter... because currently Android doesn't touch the space that a WinMo ROM takes up. Make sense?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not entirely true that it has no effect. On the HD2 it really matters what kind of winmo rom you use. Don't ask me why, but with some winmo roms you hear a robot voice when calling.
So it could be possible that it also has some effect on our tp2, but I don't think that is the case for us because I never heard anyone about it.

Lennyz1988 said:
This is not entirely true that it has no effect. On the HD2 it really matters what kind of winmo rom you use. Don't ask me why, but with some winmo roms you hear a robot voice when calling.
So it could be possible that it also has some effect on our tp2, but I don't think that is the case for us because I never heard anyone about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you talking about the NAND bootloader for the HD2 or the SD card haret method...?
Besides, I've never experienced anything like this, and I tried A TON of ROMs on my TP1 to figure out if there was any difference. My conclusion was there was no difference. Granted WinMo initializes some things for Android, so it is still necessary, and some settings within WinMo will affect Android... but I don't think the ROM itself whether it's light or heavy will affect the performance of Android. I assume that's what we're talking about...

Slight OT but i just need to ask.....if i do finally get Android to run on my TP2 and it boots up fine. Assuming i install 10 applications from market. After i do a reboot, would the apps and it's setting stay? Or will i get a fresh android OS again?

Scann69 said:
Slight OT but i just need to ask.....if i do finally get Android to run on my TP2 and it boots up fine. Assuming i install 10 applications from market. After i do a reboot, would the apps and it's setting stay? Or will i get a fresh android OS again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll only get a "fresh" Android OS if you delete your data.img file. So yes, the apps will stay

I've ran Stock Verizon ROM and Mighty ROM. No difference when Android is booted since HARET unloads the memory space WinMo is using.

coolsilver said:
I've ran Stock Verizon ROM and Mighty ROM. No difference when Android is booted since HARET unloads the memory space WinMo is using.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
try energy titanium. really you wont notice much difference tho. but homeboys right, placebo effect could help ya out

[Q] Fastest, Battery Lasting ROM?

I use the Rhodium tilt 2 GSM phone and am trying to make my phone better:
#1 I want it to be VERY FAST.
The reason why I want it fast is because I hate the Sense lag and the delay of opening screens. I also am planning to run the Android OS on it soon, so I want it to be able to transition quickly from one to the other.
I have been reading on the Overclocking threads. ( What is the safest overclocking speed by the way?)
#2 I want it to have VERY LONG BATTERY LIFE.
Since I most likely will not be using this as a phone from now on, I want to use it as a mp3 player and for websurfing. I would like to have the ability to view e-mails and use my bluetooth headset.
I am ,however, trying to see if I can use tracfone on it in the future.
Right now in it I have installed Energy Rom. Is there anything faster for GSM Rhodium. I was looking at MaxSense it I liked the Android theme to it but its for CDMA, and I also looked at Titanium but I glanced at it quickly so I didn't really look for the files yet (I don't even know if it's for GSM). I also looked at the Rom lists, I wish they had put the focal point of their roms like NRG did with his. Please place your comments to which you think it would be best for me to use. Thank you all for your help!

If you want speed, go with Titanium. Sure it's ugly-as-sin, but it's fast.
FYI, WinMo performance/speed has no relation to Android. HaRET kicks WinMo out of memory and starts its own boot process... Hence why you can't just simply "return" to WinMo from Android, you have to reboot the phone (soft reset) and have WinMo go thru its boot process again to get going.

I'm using titanium and it's still not ZOMGWTF fast, but it's a lot better than sense
I find it significantly more useful to use though, sense is just a fat slug. I set my windows key to have a drop down menu rather than the start menu screen. Does not interrupt whatever i'm doing as it's just a partial screen overlay, and it's catagorised and sorted better than the full screen window.
titanium is then only used for clock, calendar, text and occasionally contacts. All of which are no faster or easier to use in sense. Do the transition