Why is it that all of a sudden people are leaving journaling on in their roms, or rather, why did they turn it off to begin with? I know what journaling is and everything, but why is it that most ROMS said no to journaling and all of a sudden out of the blue they are starting to say yes?
Turning Journaling off lead to a very slight gain in performance, but comes with the risk of data corruption if you improperly shut down your phone, because of this Devs are offering a choice between slightly improved performance or increased stability.
Give me Stability. I was on a rom once like that, seemed after a few weeks it would become unstable. I didnt realize it was from not shutting down properly. Just thought it became corrupt over time.
If you give me a stable application set and stable OS, then I'll happily exist on no-journaling, however since we are often on custom roms, with exploits, and there is always a chance of a kernel crash, there is a higher risk of unexpected reboots, and sometimes it is better to have a journaling FS.
That said, flash devices are prone to write wear and expedited hardware failures when the same block same is rewritten too many times.
Developers are just trying to accommodate everyone. To many people complained about data corruption so they implemented journal enabled
Sent From My Evo Killer!
musclehead84 said:
Developers are just trying to accommodate everyone. To many people complained about data corruption so they implemented journal enabled
Sent From My Evo Killer!
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im glad they did ........
I haven't had an issue with journalling off that I didn't do to my self. So I don't care on or off w.e.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Related
First off, I'd just like to mention that I have searched and gone through all 20 pages of results so before anyone shouts at me because the my question has been asked I did try
Secondly: If this is in the wrong place I apologise.
So my question:
Are our devices adversely affected by hard resets? If so are things compounded by repeated hard resets?
The reason I ask is I have been experiencing some odd behaviour with my new Touch Pro and I've hard reset it quite a few times. I dont want to keep going if it's suddenly going to end up bricking my ROM.
Now it's my understanding (from a semi-educated angle) that a hard reset erases a memory area of the device (the ROM, I'm assuming this is some kind of EEPROM) and restores it with information stored in a different area of memory (also EEPROM).
I know that flash memory has limited number of read/write cycles but these days that figure is up in the tens if not hundreds of thousands. But is there anything else that might be cause for concern when carrying out repeated hard resets (which erase and rewrite areas of EEPROM?
Any input much appreciated.
Kind Regards.
Syphon
Believe it or not, there aren't many affects on the device (negative ones that is). I've flashed my Tilt because of testing ROMs so many times and i'm pretty sure somebody has flashed more than me.
Wow ok...you reckon you could just indefinitely keep flashing and hard resetting without issue (assuming you don't hit the upper read/write limits)?
Syphon Filter said:
Wow ok...you reckon you could just indefinitely keep flashing and hard resetting without issue (assuming you don't hit the upper read/write limits)?
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Click to collapse
Certainly; if you follow flashing procedures each time, you should be good to go .
For chefs like me who has been cooking countless versions of rom, I can tell u repeated and deliberate hard resets and re-flashing does not affect the phone itself.
I have lost count how many time I did this with my i780, probably close to 400 times because debugging a rom is a very tedious process, not to mention how many times I semi-bricked the poor thing
Well this is good to know, any other opinions on the matter would be much appreciated.
Thanks for the input so far guys.
ahh always been paranoid about it effecting the write/read limits.
good to know.
chrismrulz said:
ahh always been paranoid about it effecting the write/read limits.
good to know.
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Yeah, I didnt think there would be an issue but with these things you never know. I completely understand about read/write cycle limits but as i say in modern devices these are well up in the tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands and I would expect that is true of our WinMo handhelds.
I felt a bit stupid asking, but if you dont ask you will never know right!
Hi, I have been noticing a lot of mentions of bad blocks in band occurring over flashing corrupted files. My question is there anyway to fix these or do you over time have less memory to work with?
Sent from my PC36100
Please even just opinions would help.
I don't know conclusively, but I believe those blocks are bad indefinitely and you have less room to work with.
davidlightle said:
I don't know conclusively, but I believe those blocks are bad indefinitely and you have less room to work with.
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Thanks for the input.
Sent from my PC36100
i don't know much about how it all works, but i have a theory (please correct me if i'm wrong).....
i'm getting the bad block issue. now, i rooted/nanunlocked with the unrevoked3 method (a while ago). i read that it's not "real 100%" nand unlocked. that it just opens just long enough to do whatever it is it does.
so when you flash the newer roms (with the bigger boot.img), it wont let it resize the boot partition.
i was planning of going back to square one tonight. flash stock 1.32ruu. and go from there with rooting/unlocking.
anywho, that's just my two cents
If by bad blocks youre talking actual hardware then its not directly due to rom flashing.
All mediums that allow for read/write: sdcards, hard drives (flash mediums and magnetic mediums) have a certain degree of degradation over time and it increases (more degradation) with use.
I think there is also an allowable percentage of bad blocks when you get the memory, (1%).
Bad blocks are natural and will occur.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
nenn said:
If by bad blocks youre talking actual hardware then its not directly due to rom flashing.
All mediums that allow for read/write: sdcards, hard drives (flash mediums and magnetic mediums) have a certain degree of degradation over time and it increases (more degradation) with use.
I think there is also an allowable percentage of bad blocks when you get the memory, (1%).
Bad blocks are natural and will occur.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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My question spawns from the change log of the new RA Recovery. It says the file size was reduced to help with the memory crunch resulting from bad blocks. (I'm recalling and paraphrasing)
Sent from my PC36100
since i do a lot of reflashing, trying various operating systems or changing the partition sizes and reflashing my favorite os (which is cyanogen atm, since its about double as fast as all the sense roms), i do a lot of writing to the internal memory.
usually flash memory got about 200.000 write cycles - beeing increased by intelligent hardware which balances writing between all blocks.
does anyone have actual experience when you start gaining bad blocks? i mean, if i continue testing roms this way, i might one day end up with a defective internal storage...
Isn't /data on the same memory chip as /system?
Because if it is I doubt it would make much difference how many roms you flash as data is constantly being written to /data in normal use.
mad-murdock said:
since i do a lot of reflashing, trying various operating systems or changing the partition sizes and reflashing my favorite os (which is cyanogen atm, since its about double as fast as all the sense roms), i do a lot of writing to the internal memory.
usually flash memory got about 200.000 write cycles - beeing increased by intelligent hardware which balances writing between all blocks.
does anyone have actual experience when you start gaining bad blocks? i mean, if i continue testing roms this way, i might one day end up with a defective internal storage...
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Click to collapse
dont worry about it, the old nand chips htc used to use could take a battering, so im sure the new ones can, i bought a htc touch dual (htc nike) about 7 or 8 years ago and i flashed it contstantly for atleast 5 of them, my mum uses it now and its still going strong
mercianary said:
Isn't /data on the same memory chip as /system?
Because if it is I doubt it would make much difference how many roms you flash as data is constantly being written to /data in normal use.
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thats right in one way, but wrong in another. android uses YAFFS2 (yet another flash file system) which is specially developed for flash systems.
one advantage is, it doesnt flush each write access directly to the flash chip. another is, it cares to use all blocks equally. so some hours running android might only write a few blocks to data.
on the other hand, flashing a system (or using the recovery restore function) writes a lot of blocks each time.
AndroHero said:
dont worry about it, the old nand chips htc used to use could take a battering, so im sure the new ones can, i bought a htc touch dual (htc nike) about 7 or 8 years ago and i flashed it contstantly for atleast 5 of them, my mum uses it now and its still going strong
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that acutally sounds great^^ still wonder, why some people have bad blocks. production failure? or did this appear while using?
mad-murdock said:
thats right in one way, but wrong in another. android uses YAFFS2 (yet another flash file system) which is specially developed for flash systems.
one advantage is, it doesnt flush each write access directly to the flash chip. another is, it cares to use all blocks equally. so some hours running android might only write a few blocks to data.
on the other hand, flashing a system (or using the recovery restore function) writes a lot of blocks each time.
that acutally sounds great^^ still wonder, why some people have bad blocks. production failure? or did this appear while using?
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Click to collapse
devices can come shipped with bad blocks on the nand chip thats how common they are, also htc take this into account when developing the partition table, especially in the boot sector because too many bad blocks might mean not enough space for the boot .img, then your screwed lol also A Bad Block does not affect the performance of valid blocks because it is isolated from the bit line by a select transistor.
AndroHero said:
devices can come shipped with bad blocks on the nand chip thats how common they are, also htc take this into account when developing the partition table, especially in the boot sector because too many bad blocks might mean not enough space for the boot .img, then your screwed lol also A Bad Block does not affect the performance of valid blocks because it is isolated from the bit line by a select transistor.
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i see - if bad blocks are shipped, no need to worry. only if you get a "new" bad block, total failure isnt far from my experience with flash chips. thanks for your info^^
So I finally bricked yesterday (thank god for Sprint's insurance program) and I started thinking, is there such a thing as flashing too much?
It wasn't during the actual flash itself, my phone was just sitting on the charger, and suddenly, my phone wouldn't power on anymore. I think maybe the motherboard is fried. It's been a particularly flash heavy week for me (I've been messing around with a number of different ICS builds, maybe one every other day) so I got to thinking, is there such a thing as flashing too much? I'm no electrical engineer, but logic tells me that all the constant reboots and power up/downs required for flashing can't be good for the hardware if excessive
So the question remains, do you guys think there is an appropriate number of times a phone should be flashed in a certain time period?
elterible said:
So I finally bricked yesterday (thank god for Sprint's insurance program) and I started thinking, is there such a thing as flashing too much?
It wasn't during the actual flash itself, my phone was just sitting on the charger, and suddenly, my phone wouldn't power on anymore. I think maybe the motherboard is fried. It's been a particularly flash heavy week for me (I've been messing around with a number of different ICS builds, maybe one every other day) so I got to thinking, is there such a thing as flashing too much? I'm no electrical engineer, but logic tells me that all the constant reboots and power up/downs required for flashing can't be good for the hardware if excessive
So the question remains, do you guys think there is an appropriate number of times a phone should be flashed in a certain time period?
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Click to collapse
LOL you are not seriously asking flash-a-holics if there is a limit... Does and alcoholic ever think he has had one too many...
*Flash or Bust*
Well, yeah. If you flash people too much, you'll eventually get arrested. That's sick.
Well on my thunderbolt I flashed a recovery about 12 times without rebooting once.... ;P
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
playya said:
LOL you are not seriously asking flash-a-holics if there is a limit... Does and alcoholic ever think he has had one too many...
*Flash or Bust*
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LOL, yeah i hear ya. I realize I am asking a loaded question a group of people who love to "tinker" but my question was more to the technical hardware aspects. i.e. can excessive flashing and subsequent constant reboots lead to hardware failures?
From a moral standpoint and being an avid Rockfest attendee in Kansas City - no, you can not flash too much (please god, women only and not the whales)
From a technical point, yes you can flash too much. However, the possibility of you ever reaching that limit in the lifetime of a phone is almost nonexistent. We're talking about write cycles which with modern NAND chips and sdcards, it's in the hundreds of thousands. Some are lower since they obviously are not intended to be written to more than a couple times in their lifetime (BIOS, older phones where the NAND contained only the system, bootloaders, radio, and recovery, and so on). Other things like sdcards or even RAM have limited but very high write cycle limits. Ram obviously being on the extreme end of the spectrum.
In short you *can* flash too many times but you never will. Again this is an average as some memory can fail after a couple dozen writes due to flaws.
KCRic said:
From a moral standpoint and being an avid Rockfest attendee in Kansas City - no, you can not flash too much (please god, women only and not the whales)
From a technical point, yes you can flash too much. However, the possibility of you ever reaching that limit in the lifetime of a phone is almost nonexistent. We're talking about write cycles which with modern NAND chips and sdcards, it's in the hundreds of thousands. Some are lower since they obviously are not intended to be written to more than a couple times in their lifetime (BIOS, older phones where the NAND contained only the system, bootloaders, radio, and recovery, and so on). Other things like sdcards or even RAM have limited but very high write cycle limits. Ram obviously being on the extreme end of the spectrum.
In short you *can* flash too many times but you never will. Again this is an average as some memory can fail after a couple dozen writes due to flaws.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you!
I don't get why some people have issues with their that I don't have and I have problems that other people have when we are using the same device (are we?) Galaxy W. What I know is that, the difference between all our phones is the baseband, right? Does that make a difference to anything?
Sent from my GT-I8150
imadiu said:
I don't get why some people have issues with their that I don't have and I have problems that other people have when we are using the same device (are we?) Galaxy W. What I know is that, the difference between all our phones is the baseband, right? Does that make a difference to anything?
Sent from my GT-I8150
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Click to collapse
not only that, but their usage pattern also contributes a lot
Sent from my GT-I8150 using xda premium
imadiu said:
I don't get why some people have issues with their that I don't have and I have problems that other people have when we are using the same device (are we?) Galaxy W. What I know is that, the difference between all our phones is the baseband, right? Does that make a difference to anything?
Sent from my GT-I8150
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on our customization and so forth like someone using their phone mainly for gaming would lose their battery quicker than someone who just has theirs for calling people and so forth. It depends on the user so of course people would have different problems even though the phone itself is the same.
imadiu said:
I don't get why some people have issues with their that I don't have and I have problems that other people have when we are using the same device (are we?) Galaxy W. What I know is that, the difference between all our phones is the baseband, right? Does that make a difference to anything?
Sent from my GT-I8150
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As JA*G above stated, people customise their phones differently, which can cause significant differences when flashing, etc.
Also, a lot of issues arise from restoring backups from programs such as Titanium Backup, or Nandroid (CWM). Restoring backups, especially between different versions of Android, can lead to a lot of random issues, and stability problems.
Personally, I am in your shoes. I always full-wipe, and never ever back anything up. I'd rather manually download and re-install all my Apps, and use a memory card to keep my photos and music safe, than run the risk of not getting a 'clean flash'.
That said, there are countless users who have never had an issue restoring backups. It's all in how diligent you are at following instructions, your patience, and your ability to understand rather than just ask blind questions
juzz86 said:
That said, there are countless users who have never had an issue restoring backups. It's all in how diligent you are at following instructions, your patience, and your ability to understand rather than just ask blind questions
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But not everyone gets the same result even after following the instructions given by the devs for each custom rom. Really left me bewildered and i can't help them when they have a problem that i don't have... Helpless
Thats just the way it is. You cannot please every one as they say. Its that simple.
Sent from my GT-I8150 using xda premium
Karmalot said:
Thats just the way it is. You cannot please every one as they say. Its that simple.
Sent from my GT-I8150 using xda premium
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This is true. You've also gotta remember that everyone uses a different brand cable to connect, they use a different USB controller, different drivers, different OSes etc.
You may just be onto a great setup for flashing and stability. It's taken me a long time, a few bricks and a lot of reading, but I'm finally there too :good:
Sometimes, even the subtle nuances of the method you use can make all the difference, like when you plug the cable, whether you wait until everything is installed properly, whether you restart the PC after every install etc. Diligence plays a big part in getting it right
Not every phone is built equal, either. Especially Samsung phones. Two alongside each other rarely have the same fit-and-finish. I definitely think their quality control could do with a little bit of a kick in the pants :good:
juzz86 said:
This is true. You've also gotta remember that everyone uses a different brand cable to connect, they use a different USB controller, different drivers, different OSes etc.
You may just be onto a great setup for flashing and stability. It's taken me a long time, a few bricks and a lot of reading, but I'm finally there too :good:
Sometimes, even the subtle nuances of the method you use can make all the difference, like when you plug the cable, whether you wait until everything is installed properly, whether you restart the PC after every install etc. Diligence plays a big part in getting it right
Not every phone is built equal, either. Especially Samsung phones. Two alongside each other rarely have the same fit-and-finish. I definitely think their quality control could do with a little bit of a kick in the pants :good:
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Click to collapse
And for some reason people still don't get. They don't realize we cannot do much for them, and i quote "it all starts with you". Searching, reading,understanding, if you made mistakes, search, read and try to understand more. I myself experienced bricks, i ask for some help, but still its myself who fixed my wonder.
Sent from my GT-I8150 using xda premium
juzz86 said:
snip......
Also, a lot of issues arise from restoring backups from programs such as Titanium Backup, or Nandroid (CWM). Restoring backups, especially between different versions of Android, can lead to a lot of random issues, and stability problems
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Click to collapse
Can I just rake slight issue with you regarding including Android backup above....
Of course, as we know, Nandroud is basically a snapshot of your Device partitions at a given point in time.
It really is useful to get back to how your system was at that time, particularly if you gave screwed up and need to recover...you don't need to wioe or anything, as the Nabdroid restore formats the partitions before restoring data...so you can get back to that point in time with the ROM you had.....very different from App backups with TB, where you are wanting to restore your Apps to a new ROM or version!!!
Sent either from my Sammy GT-i8150 or my Momo11 Bird Tablet!!
irishpancake said:
Can I just rake slight issue with you regarding including Android backup above....
Of course, as we know, Nandroud is basically a snapshot of your Device partitions at a given point in time.
It really is useful to get back to how your system was at that time, particularly if you gave screwed up and need to recover...you don't need to wioe or anything, as the Nabdroid restore formats the partitions before restoring data...so you can get back to that point in time with the ROM you had.....very different from App backups with TB, where you are wanting to restore your Apps to a new ROM or version!!!
Sent either from my Sammy GT-i8150 or my Momo11 Bird Tablet!!
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Absolutely my friend, I don't disagree in the slightest. It is a very handy tool that can save a lot of time and effort, as long as you adhere to a few rules
For me, though, the most important thing about a new flash is that I get the absolute minimum 'junk' and the absolute best experience and performance from it. In the past I used to backup almost daily, and could restore at any point in time. Nandroid is an excellent tool for those who keep the same ROM etc. installed forever, as that's how it works best.
When you flash a new kernel, new Android version, new recovery etc, you run the risk (it certainly doesn't always happen) of it restoring things to the wrong place, restoring launchers over launchers, frameworks over frameworks etc. All of this can lead to some of the random instabilities that people experience, plus the force closes etc.
Your mileage may vary, of course, and everyone is different. I don't dispute your point at all - it's just not for me