Develop Bugs

Possible to partition internal phone memory?

I would suspect there should be some way to copy the partitions contents, break off a small chunk and copy the contents back... possibly using an advanced application like partition magic.
Specifically I'm thinking about why most high power linux systems still run swap and why it increases latency on anything other than a g1, and theorizing it could be partially bc of the slower / read write speeds of our sdcards.
Most of the apps2sd roms leave a bunch of internal space.
Could we be better using this space to our advantage?
- faylix / local
PS: the above post was made off the top of my head with no attempt to test any of the statements. I appreciate any education.
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App

faylix said:
I would suspect there should be some way to copy the partitions contents, break off a small chunk and copy the contents back... possibly using an advanced application like partition magic.
Specifically I'm thinking about why most high power linux systems still run swap and why it increases latency on anything other than a g1, and theorizing it could be partially bc of the slower / read write speeds of our sdcards.
Most of the apps2sd roms leave a bunch of internal space.
Could we be better using this space to our advantage?
- faylix / local
PS: the above post was made off the top of my head with no attempt to test any of the statements. I appreciate any education.
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Faylix, the only way to do this would be via the kernel command line partitioning discussed ad nauseum in the G1 forum. Unfortunately, because the Slide has a locked down SPL that isn't really possible for us.
Should we one day get access to a more flexible SPL this could likely be achieved -- and to great results!

Any solution to bad blocks?

Hi, I have been noticing a lot of mentions of bad blocks in band occurring over flashing corrupted files. My question is there anyway to fix these or do you over time have less memory to work with?
Sent from my PC36100

Please even just opinions would help.

I don't know conclusively, but I believe those blocks are bad indefinitely and you have less room to work with.

davidlightle said:
I don't know conclusively, but I believe those blocks are bad indefinitely and you have less room to work with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input.
Sent from my PC36100

i don't know much about how it all works, but i have a theory (please correct me if i'm wrong).....
i'm getting the bad block issue. now, i rooted/nanunlocked with the unrevoked3 method (a while ago). i read that it's not "real 100%" nand unlocked. that it just opens just long enough to do whatever it is it does.
so when you flash the newer roms (with the bigger boot.img), it wont let it resize the boot partition.
i was planning of going back to square one tonight. flash stock 1.32ruu. and go from there with rooting/unlocking.
anywho, that's just my two cents

If by bad blocks youre talking actual hardware then its not directly due to rom flashing.
All mediums that allow for read/write: sdcards, hard drives (flash mediums and magnetic mediums) have a certain degree of degradation over time and it increases (more degradation) with use.
I think there is also an allowable percentage of bad blocks when you get the memory, (1%).
Bad blocks are natural and will occur.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

nenn said:
If by bad blocks youre talking actual hardware then its not directly due to rom flashing.
All mediums that allow for read/write: sdcards, hard drives (flash mediums and magnetic mediums) have a certain degree of degradation over time and it increases (more degradation) with use.
I think there is also an allowable percentage of bad blocks when you get the memory, (1%).
Bad blocks are natural and will occur.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My question spawns from the change log of the new RA Recovery. It says the file size was reduced to help with the memory crunch resulting from bad blocks. (I'm recalling and paraphrasing)
Sent from my PC36100

[Q] [REQ] Nand Health Analyzer...

Our phones have Samsung kby00u00vm-b450 NAND pre-installed from factory.
With all frequent flashing and wiping, I am worried about how long this NAND will last and does it have a limit on read/writes/wipes.
I am looking for someone to develop an app which analyzes health of the NAND and also possibly predicate number of read/writes completed and remaining.
Any thoughts/ideas??

Ummmmmm....no offense intended but are you serious?
The only way to analyze the "health" of memory would have to be something along the lines of an app that would be able to determine bad disk sectors.
There really isn't a way to just say "Hey, you have a hundred writes left and then kiputz." Its just not feasible....
I could be wrong though....
~Jasecloud4

LMAO.. Funny... i have never thought about it in terms of an app, but i have often wondered if there is a limit to how long the NAND would last... i am a flashaholic!!

sshark said:
Our phones have Samsung kby00u00vm-b450 NAND pre-installed from factory.
With all frequent flashing and wiping, I am worried about how long this NAND will last and does it have a limit on read/writes/wipes.
I am looking for someone to develop an app which analyzes health of the NAND and also possibly predicate number of read/writes completed and remaining.
Any thoughts/ideas??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all RAM has read write limits, and likely flashing/wiping every damn day (like some of us) was not taken into account when creating android phones.
actually not a terrible idea, something like SMART status would be kinda nice...
typical "ram testing" type applications for PCs would not work because they actually read/write to the sectors, and of course we dont want that... hm.
and likely it would have to be run in recovery too.
also, for future reference, try posting this kinda stuff in the Q&A, or general threads.

Every nand is good for exactly 9999 flashes, so just start keeping track of flashes.

jasecloud4 said:
Ummmmmm....no offense intended but are you serious?
The only way to analyze the "health" of memory would have to be something along the lines of an app that would be able to determine bad disk sectors.
~Jasecloud4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does not have to be Android app, it could be low-level memory management/analyzer that could be run from recovery or just from PC.
kingdazy said:
all RAM has read write limits, and likely flashing/wiping every damn day (like some of us) was not taken into account when creating android phones.
actually not a terrible idea, something like SMART status would be kinda nice...
typical "ram testing" type applications for PCs would not work because they actually read/write to the sectors, and of course we dont want that... hm.
and likely it would have to be run in recovery too.
also, for future reference, try posting this kinda stuff in the Q&A, or general threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, something in recovery would be nice, which at least can assess number of good/bad sectors.
Also, if all of the devs agree on a common format, then with each flash or wipe, a cookie/text file can be updated to the SD CARD to reflect dates of all flash/wipes.
Since this is a development request I posted in this section, I know the general rules.

flash destroyer
dangerousprototypes.xxx/2010/05/25/prototype-flash_destroyer
ustream.xxx/channel/flash-destroyer
11,494,060 was the final write count
edit: dont have enough posts for url, replace xxx with com in urls

zoydberg said:
dangerousprototypes.xxx/2010/05/25/prototype-flash_destroyer
ustream.xxx/channel/flash-destroyer
11,494,060 was the final write count
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is this and how did you get it?

Joekrim would be the canidate for this project

snandlal said:
Joekrim would be the canidate for this project
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I will need to get hold of him.
Challenge would be to get everyone (all developers) buy into this common format or something which can really keep track of flash/wipes.

The way we flash is safe, the whole nand corrupt thing correlates to something like a jtag xbox. When I flash through with a lpt (printer) cable, you have to watch the nand, the way we do it is safe and nothing to worry about. If it were an xbox itS recommended to flash as few to one as possible to prevent damage, flash away!

The nand has about 10000 write cycles. If you flash twice a day on average thats almost 15 years.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

sounds like a challenge, lets see who can overflash their NAND first, award TBA at successful brick

sshark said:
Since this is a development request I posted in this section, I know the general rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my bad.
woot! 400 posts.

NewZJ said:
sounds like a challenge, lets see who can overflash their NAND first, award TBA at successful brick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*Raises Hand With Barney Stinson Voice* Challenge accepted!

You know what? This IS a really good idea! I've noticed that all 5 of the EVOs I've gone through (dont ask, long story) have had diminished performance the more I flash... I've grown past flashing EVERY ROM I see, and stuck to a really reliable ROM, and outside of a bad camera sensor (EVO #6 on the way) this one has performed flawlessly. I tried un/rerooting a few times, and that cleared bad/conflicting code, but didn't completely address the issues I was having... not until now did I think about connecting these dots. That being said, 1: THANKS for the eye opener!
2: I'd buy this app! (as I think many devs/ROM free basers would)
Nice work!
sent killing time on my EVO while she watches desperate housewhores...

IP IHI II IL said:
You know what? This IS a really good idea! I've noticed that all 5 of the EVOs I've gone through (dont ask, long story) have had diminished performance the more I flash... I've grown past flashing EVERY ROM I see, and stuck to a really reliable ROM, and outside of a bad camera sensor (EVO #6 on the way) this one has performed flawlessly. I tried un/rerooting a few times, and that cleared bad/conflicting code, but didn't completely address the issues I was having... not until now did I think about connecting these dots. That being said, 1: THANKS for the eye opener!
2: I'd buy this app! (as I think many devs/ROM free basers would)
Nice work!
sent killing time on my EVO while she watches desperate housewhores...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
an app that tells us something we already know? Why doesn't a dev make an app to tell me what phone i have, I think it's an Evo but i want to make sure

iitreatedii said:
Why doesn't a dev make an app to tell me what phone i have, I think it's an Evo but i want to make sure
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check out ROM Manager. When you click on flash cwm recovery it tells you what phone you have and asks you to confirm it. I don't know if it works for all phones but I can confirm it correctly identifies my phone as a CDMA Evo and correctly identifies my Nook Color.

doesn't recognize my nook color! it keeps calling it a encore, wtf!

Thread moved to Q&A.

Why am I running out of space/memory?

Hello all!
This is driving me crazy!
I have the usual collection of apps on my Desire, a couple of Nav software (being the big ones) etc etc.
However I have moved all of the apps, except things like swype, Advanced task killer, and a couple of widgets to my SD card, either with the native android function or with titanium backup.
However i keep getting the dreaded low space warning.
Why is this happening?
If I move the apps to the SD card, why am i still losing space on the phone?
And on a side note, why in 2011 we still have to deal with something a la 1986 with DOS and its memory shenaningans!

short story: not everything is moved when you move something to the sd card.
search on here about the differences between apps2sd vs data2sd (or d2whatever, or d2ext)

Dammit!
But thanks for your answer, at least I know where I stand.
I have lazily avoided going down the app2sd route so far, since didnt want to start the partitioning etc process.
I think I will keep going for a couple of weeks more, until I get my sensation, and in awhile probably have to do this for that one too. Will the sensation have the same problem (apart from higher RAM)?
Honestly, what were google thinking making this setup? Did they except their OS to have only 10 apps created for it?? Talk about believing in success!

HTC designed and manufactured the phones, not Google.
The Senstation should have at least 1GB of internal, as far as I remember.

k.aalai said:
Dammit!
But thanks for your answer, at least I know where I stand.
I have lazily avoided going down the app2sd route so far, since didnt want to start the partitioning etc process.
I think I will keep going for a couple of weeks more, until I get my sensation, and in awhile probably have to do this for that one too. Will the sensation have the same problem (apart from higher RAM)?
Honestly, what were google thinking making this setup? Did they except their OS to have only 10 apps created for it?? Talk about believing in success!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC always put extremely low internal storage onto their phones. Its not Google's fault. The Sensation has a 4GB ROM (But only 1GB is given to users for applications, the rest goes to the system partition etc.).

we really should yell at HTC then huh..? any idea why they do this?

I don't know what its like in your country, but in mine, a phone's lifespan is only about 2 yrs. Carriers offer subsidized upgrades (with contracts mind you), so most people upgrade every couple of years. I have a 800mb ext4 partition with data2sd and still have 400 free. I have over 200 apps installed, not that I use more than 10% of them, lol. I think the 1GB user space on the sensation should last you just fine. One thing to keep in mind is that he sensation bootloader is currently locked, which means hacks like this may not be available for it.

itachi1706 said:
HTC always put extremely low internal storage onto their phones. Its not Google's fault. The Sensation has a 4GB ROM (But only 1GB is given to users for applications, the rest goes to the system partition etc.).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you root and s-off you can change the internal partition table size according to the rom you use. This maximises the space available to you for apps, in my case 332mb instead of 147 that you get with stock.
The processes to do this are pretty painless if you are good with following specific instructions.

Bloody tech companies, screw you in the end one way or another! If its not apple, its MS, and now HTC.
Honestly 150mb of RAM? in 2011????? The first Iphone could use 8Gigs years ago....
Ive had 4 HTCs phone in succession and each one had some issues somewhere. Sad thing is they were the best out there at their respective time!
Why oh why does it seem 95% of products seem to have never been properly thought out or tested!!!!
Rant over....
Thanks for the replies guys, and to add to your replies, yes I am getting an upgrade on contract, and hoping the Sensation bootloader will be unlocked soon (locking them in the first place, another great genius company decision there!).
If the sensation memory is not enough, I suppose will have to go through the ext4 route!
All your replies are much appreciated!

I have a htc desire stock orange uk, S-OFF, rooted.
download Link2sd (you have to be rooted)
With link2sd all I did was use Ubuntu and gparted to partition my 8gb sd card the 2nd partition set at 1024mb and the rest all together and both FAT32, as on the market app info it says ext2, ext3 etc etc can only be used with a custom rom.
hope this helps
This has been a life saver went from 17MB free to Nearly 60MB!!!!!

k.aalai said:
Thanks for the replies guys, and to add to your replies, yes I am getting an upgrade on contract, and hoping the Sensation bootloader will be unlocked soon (locking them in the first place, another great genius company decision there!).
If the sensation memory is not enough, I suppose will have to go through the ext4 route!
All your replies are much appreciated!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The sensation is going to get it's bootloader unlocked in august. And 1gb should be enough for now.
http://m.facebook.com/notes/htc-uk/bootloader-unlocking-progress/241032199259602?_rdr
Sent from my HTC Original Desire using Tapatalk

[Q] Re-partition Internal Memory?

I have done a general search on Google and found several articles relating to this subject, but when I searched XDA I didn't find anything conclusive or useful or even informative. The Samsung Galaxy S4 was supposed to be at least a 16GB phone. To me, that means 16GB of usable space to install apps. I knew there would be some bloatware, but when I got my SGS4, I was annoyed to see that the device memory total space was only 9.72 GB, and the bloatware was installed in that space! That left me with only a measly 8GB to install my apps. So where did the other 6.28 GB go? From what I read, it was used by the "system" and hidden "Samsung recovery partitions".
Well, I do not care about recovery partitions. I would rather trust Titanium Backup and my Nandroid backups and have more usable space than have a recovery partition I can't access. I am stingy with my storage, which is at a premium on mobile devices. I like to have control over every megabyte and I don't like the manufacturer deciding how my space is used. I already got an SD card for it, but I still want that missing space back.
So here is my question; how does one re-partition or re-size the partitions of the internal memory of the Samsung Galaxy S4? I know that linux has some amazing partition editors like gparted that can re-size partitions without destroying them, and Android is based on linux, so is there anything like an "aparted"?

I think in the system partition aside from the actual OS there's an odd 2-3 gigs of temp space to be utilizing during updates via Kiev etc. Since the size of TW roms are so big it makes sense in some weird way.
However anything I've read regarding repartioning is supposed to be pretty risky procedure. A lot of us that have gone to the Google Edition rom are also stuck with the original partitions even though GE rom nearly a gig smaller than TW rom. So especially wasted space for us.
Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk 4 Beta

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lazaro17 said:
I think in the system partition aside from the actual OS there's an odd 2-3 gigs of temp space to be utilizing during updates via Kiev etc. Since the size of TW roms are so big it makes sense in some weird way.
However anything I've read regarding repartioning is supposed to be pretty risky procedure. A lot of us that have gone to the Google Edition rom are also stuck with the original partitions even though GE rom nearly a gig smaller than TW rom. So especially wasted space for us.
Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See, that's exactly what I am talking about. I don't plan to ever update my stock rom via Kiev, assuming I ever update it at all, since I flashed a modified stock kernel to get root. Where did you read about repartitioning being risky? I couldn't even find that much. Is it equally risky for all devices, or do the more modern devices have more options? I also flashed the Google Edition rom hoping to get the space back, but nope! It really sucks that a non-touchwiz, non-samsung rom would still allow a wasted partition.

Zaron DarkStar said:
See, that's exactly what I am talking about. I don't plan to ever update my stock rom via Kiev, assuming I ever update it at all, since I flashed a modified stock kernel to get root. Where did you read about repartitioning being risky? I couldn't even find that much. Is it equally risky for all devices, or do the more modern devices have more options? I also flashed the Google Edition rom hoping to get the space back, but nope! It really sucks that a non-touchwiz, non-samsung rom would still allow a wasted partition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In order to partition that internal memory you have to wipe it. And that means everything. System, recovery, download mode, boot loader, everything.
The connection with Odin or adb at this point would be totally housed in RAM. It would need to maintain that connection in order to complete the task of adding the new partition, adding the download mode back, adding recovery, and finally the ROM itself.
If the phone lost its connection during that process or lost power or the update process got pushed out of ram for any reason the phone would be hard bricked as there would be no way to reestablish communication with it to restart the process. You couldn't power it on or boot it to anything. It would be a $600 paper weight.
Meanwhile the alternative option is to just go buy an $8 external 16gb SD card or a $20 external 32gb SD card. That carries no risk whatsoever and expands your phone's storage well beyond the original 9gb of usable space you started with.
Sent from your phone. You should be careful where you leave that thing.

Skipjacks said:
In order to partition that internal memory you have to wipe it. And that means everything. System, recovery, download mode, boot loader, everything.
The connection with Odin or adb at this point would be totally housed in RAM. It would need to maintain that connection in order to complete the task of adding the new partition, adding the download mode back, adding recovery, and finally the ROM itself.
If the phone lost its connection during that process or lost power or the update process got pushed out of ram for any reason the phone would be hard bricked as there would be no way to reestablish communication with it to restart the process. You couldn't power it on or boot it to anything. It would be a $600 paper weight.
Meanwhile the alternative option is to just go buy an $8 external 16gb SD card or a $20 external 32gb SD card. That carries no risk whatsoever and expands your phone's storage well beyond the original 9gb of usable space you started with.
Sent from your phone. You should be careful where you leave that thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! And yes I also hit the thanks button . I had no idea that partitioning the internal memory was THAT risky. I am surprised nobody has come up with a better way, like how you would boot from a CD to partition your computer. Maybe a way to boot from external SD or something? It also makes me curious; if the manufacturer started with blank internal memory, how did they write the initial recovery and ROM to it in the first place? What are they able to do that we can't do?

Zaron DarkStar said:
Thanks! And yes I also hit the thanks button . I had no idea that partitioning the internal memory was THAT risky. I am surprised nobody has come up with a better way, like how you would boot from a CD to partition your computer. Maybe a way to boot from external SD or something? It also makes me curious; if the manufacturer started with blank internal memory, how did they write the initial recovery and ROM to it in the first place? What are they able to do that we can't do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your computer has a bios that exists on a saparate chip from everything else. The bios is like a pre-boot that waits for you to hit the power button, then it looks for a hard drive with an OS to get going the rest of the way. If it doesn't find a hard drive it will look to a CD ROM drive that will take the next step.
The operating sysem resides on your hard drive. So you can wipe your hard drive and the bios will at least let the computer physically turn on.
On your cell phone all that stuff resides on the same internal memory. So if you wipe it clean, it doesn't even have something like a bios that can look for a secondary boot option on an SD Card.
Samsung probably programs the memory chips on a separate machine before they even put them on the mother board. Think of an old 8 bit Nintendo. Super Mario Bros. exists entirely on the game cartridge. It's pre programed to hold the game. You then take that game cartridge (which is essentially just a memory chip on a circuit board inside the plastic case) and insert it into the Nintendo in order to boot up the game. Without the game inserted the power button just blinks and the Nintendo doesn't know what to do. Same thing with your phone. Samsung programs the memory chip somewhere else, then puts the fully prgrammed chip onto the mother board and it boots up. (This is a VERY generic example. There are about 500 things that are different about how these two sysems boot. I am well aware of this. I jus used it as an example to help clarify the concept.)

Skipjacks said:
On your cell phone all that stuff resides on the same internal memory. So if you wipe it clean, it doesn't even have something like a bios that can look for a secondary boot option on an SD Card.[/I]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ugh that seems like a bad design choice. And all manufacturers are doing this? Nobody has managed to squeeze in a separate chip for the recovery, even on tablets?
Skipjacks said:
Samsung probably programs the memory chips on a separate machine before they even put them on the mother board.[/I]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what you are saying is that the process Samsung probably used can't be used after the chip has been placed in the phone without extreme risk? Got it.

Zaron DarkStar said:
Ugh that seems like a bad design choice. And all manufacturers are doing this? Nobody has managed to squeeze in a separate chip for the recovery, even on tablets?
So what you are saying is that the process Samsung probably used can't be used after the chip has been placed in the phone without extreme risk? Got it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You probably need to unsolder the chip from the board and use a chip programmer to write everything back to the chip.

macaumen said:
You probably need to unsolder the chip from the board and use a chip programmer to write everything back to the chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think I'll be attempting something like that. That would make me even more nervous than wiping the internal memory. I'm a GTAW welder, and I still don't think I would have steady enough hands to go messing with the physical chips inside my phone.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using xda app-developers app

One chip?
Anyway my other question still remains. Android software/hardware is all designed to run off of one internal chip that holds everything? Even on tablets? And nobody has attempted to break this mold?

You can actually adjust the partition details through what is called a pit file (partition information table)
There is a thread where someone was able to create the pit files flashable through Odin. While they are flashable, I have tried everything on my s3 to get it to work. I think there is some bootloader code which ignores unsigned or not genuine pit files. There is just something preventing them from taking effect even though it says it flashed successfully.
You should easily be able to take some blocks from system partition and add them to data without and risks.
Btw it's impossible to hard brick this and the s3. You would just need a jtag device to rewrite the bootloader back to the device. Some people have said that the USB jigs you see on eBay work. And for 5 bucks what the heck lol.
But generally speaking, playing with pit files and partitions can get costly.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

I'm still very interested in this. I intend to only use the Google Play ROM's, which are 500MB, rather than 2GB
Samsung said that the S4's system only uses 1GB more than the S3, yet consumes 2GB more in total :/

DON'T TRY THIS. OTHERWISE IT'LL BRICK YOUR DEVICE
There's a solution for S4 i9500, but apparently it was officially released by samsung. I don't believe samsung or t-mobile will do the same, but I hope so. Or if anything could be done from this to be adapted to m919 would be great.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2429309

Zaron DarkStar said:
Ugh that seems like a bad design choice. And all manufacturers are doing this? Nobody has managed to squeeze in a separate chip for the recovery, even on tablets?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I strongly suspect this goes to how ARM Systems-on-a-Chip work. These devices don't expect to encounter any kind of hardware intermediary between the processor and the chips. That's what the drivers are for. These devices are designed for simple bootstrapping, and the best way to do that is to connect the CPU to a single internal store of flash memory. Also, no device manufacturer expects to need to repartition their internal flashes within the device's working life. The partition sizes were chosen very carefully so it isn't necessary. They trade in some leeway space to be able to "set it and forget it." In the end, they don't expect anyone (including themselves) to tinker with it after it's been all set up. Normal users won't be in a position to encounter the recovery system, and even skilled amateurs trying to fix something mildly serious would find the stock recovery system sufficient. If that doesn't work, it's probably going back to the manufacturer.

Still a bad design.
WhosAsking said:
Also, no device manufacturer expects to need to repartition their internal flashes within the device's working life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So when they advertise a device as having a certain amount of storage, yet the actual user controlled usable storage space is almost half that, they don't think people are going to have a problem with that and will want to get that storage space back, through re-partitioning if necessary?
WhosAsking said:
The partition sizes were chosen very carefully so it isn't necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The partition sizes weren't chosen by ME, the consumer, owner, and end-user of the device, so it is quite necessary I have control over the storage I paid for.
WhosAsking said:
They trade in some leeway space to be able to "set it and forget it."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean they trade so of MY hardware's capability for the current/future needs of whatever services they might decide to implement, even if I will never use said services.
WhosAsking said:
In the end, they don't expect anyone (including themselves) to tinker with it after it's been all set up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tinker with all my electronics to suit my needs. I change the partition structure of my computer occasionally when my storage allocation needs change enough that it becomes necessary.
WhosAsking said:
Normal users won't be in a position to encounter the recovery system, and even skilled amateurs trying to fix something mildly serious would find the stock recovery system sufficient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This isn't about trying to fix a problem. This is about being able to control and use ALL of the storage I expected to have on a device I paid for.
It just sounds like you are making excuses for Samsung. Please don't. It is bad enough that we have to deal with bloatware, but for a manufacturer to reduce a device's functionality, knowing that it is risky/difficult to reverse, for the sake of their proprietary services that the user may not want is just unacceptable.
If I wanted a device where the manufacturer makes the decisions for me the I would buy an Apple. I choose Android for its openness and customizability, so I get annoyed when I see manufacturers deliberately reduce a device's customizability to make way for their proprietary services. I think manufacturers should respect the spirit of the platform they are making devices for, otherwise they are making devices for the wrong platform. More specifically, I think Samsung should respect the spirit of Android, and stop trying to shove their proprietary bloatware down our throats.

Zaron, let me put it another way. The sizes you hear advertised on TV and ads and so on are much like hard drive sizes and the "up to" internet speeds you also see; you're not expected to actually get every last bit that's advertised. The only way you'll fix that is to change advertising laws; good luck trying to get something like that through a legislature.
There's also the fact that those of us here do not represent the typical user of these phones. The average person wants to be able to just get their apps done and be done with it. Quite simply, you can't please everyone, so it's better to annoy a small number of diehard geeks than a larger number of less-technically-literate buyers. As for the "spirit of Android," I don't see any such thing. Android is what manufacturers make of it (like with Amazon). We're talking companies here; not bleeding hearts. For Samsung, Android just happens to be the non-Apple system best at hand. It's not like they're betting the farm on it, either; they're developing Tizen, too, which will be going into their Gear 2 line of smartwatches.

WhosAsking said:
Zaron, let me put it another way.
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Ok let's break this down since it sounds like once again you are making excuses.
WhosAsking said:
The sizes you hear advertised on TV and ads and so on are much like hard drive sizes and the "up to" internet speeds you also see; you're not expected to actually get every last bit that's advertised.
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I have gotten nearly ALL of the storage space I paid for on EVERY hard drive I have ever bought. There is a miniscule loss for the formatting overhead and partition table, and maybe a couple hundred megabytes for the Windows recovery partition if I CHOOSE to have one. This is quite minor compared to the 500GB - 3TB of space my drives have. On the GS4, I got nearly half, HALF of the usable storage I thought I was buying. There is a huge difference between minor overhead cost and HALF. Also, most of the time I get exactly the amount of bandwidth I pay for as well, for both my home internet and mobile data. It is rare I get any slowdown. So don't give me this nonsense about not expecting to get what is advertised.
WhosAsking said:
The only way you'll fix that is to change advertising laws; good luck trying to get something like that through a legislature.
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I don't need to change any laws to vote with my wallet, which is the only thing Samsung should be concerned with: how customers vote with their money.
WhosAsking said:
There's also the fact that those of us here do not represent the typical user of these phones. The average person wants to be able to just get their apps done and be done with it.
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Really? Because everyone I know who has an Android got one for the ability to customize/tinker with it. But even assuming there is a larger user base I haven't seen that doesn't care as much about customizing, what if said "average people" want to install many apps on their phone? Maybe they want to try out one of the many relatively large Android games on the market. Even an "average" user of a mobile device can do simple math. If they install a few games that are a couple GB each and then run out of space, and then add up the total space they used and compare it to how much their device should have, they would notice they got cheated real quick. All they have to do is go into the app manager in the settings and look at the amount of space used/free to see they don't have as much space as they thought.
WhosAsking said:
Quite simply, you can't please everyone, so it's better to annoy a small number of diehard geeks than a larger number of less-technically-literate buyers.
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I do agree that it is difficult to please everyone. However, who exactly are they pleasing by cutting the usable storage space in half? Answer: nobody but themselves, in order to exert control over their customers. That is all. I have not heard a single person say, "I am so happy with all of Samsung's built-in services, and I don't mind at all that I have only half the space listed on the box!"
WhosAsking said:
As for the "spirit of Android," I don't see any such thing.
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When I say spirit of Android, what I mean is the desire to make a useful device that puts the power of customization in the hands of the user. I mean a device that is the opposite of an Apple device. I mean a device that can be used independently of its creator company. I mean the ability to change the ROM, the launcher, the dialer, the SMS app, and allowing pretty much every other part of the device's software to be modular and customizable. I mean the ability to sideload apps, install other market apps, and not be tied down to one marketplace. I mean the ability to have a device that doesn't make you feel beholden to any entity. That is the spirit of Android. So when a company makes an Android device with features that deliberately move away from customization and towards proprietary dependence, aka dedicating almost half of the SGS4's internal storage for proprietary services, while advertising it as having the full 16GB, that pisses me off. If Android was a religion, it would be the equivalent of blasphemy. When I am in the market for a new device, a company gets my attention by having a more powerful device with more customization options. Also, nothing makes me switch manufacturers faster than when I feel like they are trying to lock me in to their economy.
Now, if you respond to me in the same manner as your last two posts, full of industry excuses and reasons why we shouldn't criticize our corporate overlords, then I will assume you are just a shill, and I will ignore you. I have better things to do than argue with a shill, so prove to me you aren't one.

You're right. It sucks. You should get the entire cell phone industry (valued at several hundred billion dollars) to change its' marketing systems.
Let me know how that works out for you.
The rest of us don't like it either, but we've moved on because we learned how to interpret the manufacturer's claims into what we can actually except to see. Now stop yelling at everyone on XDA who is just trying to explain it to you. We're not the ones who came up with these shadey marketing practices. And just because we understand the shadey marketing practices doesn't mean we support them.
You are preaching to the chior. We all agree with you.

Skipjacks said:
You're right. It sucks. You should get the entire cell phone industry (valued at several hundred billion dollars) to change its' marketing systems.
Let me know how that works out for you.
The rest of us don't like it either, but we've moved on because we learned how to interpret the manufacturer's claims into what we can actually except to see. Now stop yelling at everyone on XDA who is just trying to explain it to you. We're not the ones who came up with these shadey marketing practices. And just because we understand the shadey marketing practices doesn't mean we support them.
You are preaching to the chior. We all agree with you.
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You were helpful to me before, why do you sound so angry now? I wasn't yelling at "everyone". I was disagreeing with one person about the premise that no matter what we do, we should expect to get screwed in some way every time we buy a phone. I don't accept that. I don't even have a problem with people who do accept it, but I do have a problem when people explain it to me, and then sound like they are trying to get me to accept getting screwed. This thread started with me asking if there was a way to easily re-partition the internal memory of the SGS4, and when the answer was basically "no", the purpose of this thread was pretty much served. However, it went on to become a discussion about why things are the way they are, which inevitably led to the business practices of Samsung, at which point it started to feel like I was being told to just accept the situation, which got me riled up. Big corporations wouldn't be big without their customers, so I intend to stay a customer who cares. I won't give in to apathy or complacency, and I won't accept corporate control, even if I can't directly do anything about it. I appreciate the explanations, and I am sorry offended anyone.