Related
Amidst all the furore about the availability of 3 similar crossbow roms for the Universal, I have become increasingly amused by the number of comments from various people in the various threads, complaining about certain things not working, which sometimes work for others and then qualifying their complaints by saying that it is critical that the failing apps work on their devices and are desperate for help....
At the end of the day, if any of your apps are that critical then you shouldn't be upgrading - particularly to Crossbow, as it is very much in its infancy at the moment. I have no doubt that within a short while, the various Rom magicians here will have a number of alternatives available that are 'relatively' stable but anyone who depends on the functions of their Uni to the degree where they cannot survive without them should leave well alone....
Just my opinion
I entirely agree.
Guys, the WM6 roms should not be used.
If you happen to use it, backup first, bolt your windows, and suck it up if you loose your device, your data, or your innocence.
You will of course screw your warranty and a puppy will die. C'est la vie.
V
captainsensible2002 said:
Amidst all the furore about the availability of 3 similar crossbow roms for the Universal, I have become increasingly amused by the number of comments from various people in the various threads, complaining about certain things not working, which sometimes work for others and then qualifying their complaints by saying that it is critical that the failing apps work on their devices and are desperate for help....
At the end of the day, if any of your apps are that critical then you shouldn't be upgrading - particularly to Crossbow, as it is very much in its infancy at the moment. I have no doubt that within a short while, the various Rom magicians here will have a number of alternatives available that are 'relatively' stable but anyone who depends on the functions of their Uni to the degree where they cannot survive without them should leave well alone....
Just my opinion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you, it was the same situation back in the days when WM5 popped out
How true! By upgrading to WM6, you implicitely accept any shortcomings, bugs, missing functionality etc. Period.
(We should stick something along this line in a large fontsize on both the frontpage and the forum frontend. Maybe even in blinking red
Can I downgrade to WinCE 2.11 and get a version of active sync that will work on Windows for Workgroups 3.11 please?
Just want to make sure I am using something well established with all of the fixes, and years of background knowledge available for it
Oh, and I will need a serial to USB adapter so I can sync hehe.
Well, there are a lot of people around who want to upgrade to WM6 despite the fact that they have no idea what they're doing. If the average user sees an upgrade to a "New OS" they're probably more likely to give it a go than they would if it was just an upgrade for a bugfix or a re-arranged contacts database (rightly or wrongly).
The intelligent ones will do a bit of reading before deciding whether to even attempt the upgrade. But there will always be some who get themselves in a mess because they've rushed into it.
Fortunately, everything they need to know to get themselves out of their mess is on this forum somewhere - Unfortunately it seems many can't even be bothered to search - so the same old quetions are bound to be asked a hundred times over the next couple of weeks...Still, we all try to be helpful, don't we? (Even if it does get tedious at times!).
lol, no, it bugs the hell out of me, hence the reason I posted this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=290234
I was a n00b once, I don't think I posted any lame questions, maybe some, I can't be bothered to go back and look, but from memory, it was only after I couldn't find it with the search that I asked somewhere.
I don't have anything critical I just have to run. Sure, there's software I have bought, and would be irritated if it didn't work immediately after an upgrade, but I am happy to take the risk, I have a Univeral and a Wizard, so I can always use the other if I have problems on one.
It's like this on anything though, something new comes out, everyone thinks they are an instant expert, messes it all up, and then begs for help because they were too lazy and stupid to read a few pages that would have explained it all to them.
Help, I just flashed my Universal to WM7 (Photon) that I downloaded from your website, and now it does not come past the bootscreen anymore ... I need my machine yesterday because my life depends on it, and I did not make a backup and now Microsoft has caused me to ruin my machine causing me to go out of business and you have to help me since I got the rom update from your website!!
(hehehehehe)
Well if you can get to the boot screen, all is not lost.
Get some superglue, and put a few drops into the USB socket.
Plug it in, and give it at least an hour to dry.
Now carefeully hold your device in one hand, and the cable in the other.
Now pull the cable out as fast as you can.
This shold prevent any further upgrading issues, or problems from ever happening to your device again.
Partially I agree, but i mean normal (lame) user who wants to upgrade only to show his palls couple of different # on boot screen. but i think helmi, ivan, indra or all else would never do good,working rom (like ivans aku 3.2, helmi 3.5), which are stable w/o feedback.
worst is here is helluva lot of people with prob."i tried 2 upgr. 2 wm6 & got COUNTRY ID err)
I love wm6 http email function. And somebody get the wm6 messenging in wm5?any hacks?
My mate sent me this, just some info that most people Know.
Testers of Windows Mobile Codenamed Crossbow (or Windows Mobile 6.0) have leaked at least 2 versions of the pre-release online,
According to our source betacollector the pre-release is incomplete, missing a few functions but working fine.
No Windows start orb here, that seems to be cropping up on everywhere on Microsoft software now, but then again WM6 is not yet final -who knows if that will be included in the final release.
The leaked version specs: WM6PreRelease.rar (54177kb) Build date 1/12/2006 (15341.4.2.0) Rom 2.00.02.pv / External Rom 2.02 PDAVIET
Theres also a second one WM6CB.rar weighing in at 59608kb for the MDA Pro / Universal or qtec 9000 that one is older than the above mentioned leak.
AlanJC said:
Well if you can get to the boot screen, all is not lost.
Get some superglue, and put a few drops into the USB socket.
Plug it in, and give it at least an hour to dry.
Now carefeully hold your device in one hand, and the cable in the other.
Now pull the cable out as fast as you can.
This shold prevent any further upgrading issues, or problems from ever happening to your device again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahahaha!!
Don't try this at home!!
I did an upgrade to WM6 on a fairly new 9000. Took me almost 6 hours to complete. The damn thing got stuck in the bootloader, lost my RADIo ROM, got it "bricked", managed to un-brick it again, lost my EXT. ROM, but at the end, it worked out and now the "damn thing" works fine on a brand new WM6 ROM. Exept for video calling and a few minor bugs I have no complains.....
Moral of the story. I am a man. Men like to do technical stuff. If you do not know what you are doing, stay off the damn thing. If you like to inflict pain on your self, but know what you are doing, just do.
Fooling around with some new gagets is cool. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't........
In my case, it worked out. Me is happy.........
AlanJC said:
Well if you can get to the boot screen, all is not lost.
Get some superglue, and put a few drops into the USB socket.
Plug it in, and give it at least an hour to dry.
Now carefeully hold your device in one hand, and the cable in the other.
Now pull the cable out as fast as you can.
This shold prevent any further upgrading issues, or problems from ever happening to your device again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
errrr .... will this speed up my UMTS connection? I tried searching the board on superglue+umts but I can't find anything ;-)
onlineemails said:
I love wm6 http email function. And somebody get the wm6 messenging in wm5?any hacks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought it was great until I got two eMails in the space of 3 hours that caused it to crash when trying to view them...
Cheers,
Steve.
It got an limit for email for example 10kb and after that it doesnt get the email in full and you can request to get it full,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1104565#post1104565
Our phones have Samsung kby00u00vm-b450 NAND pre-installed from factory.
With all frequent flashing and wiping, I am worried about how long this NAND will last and does it have a limit on read/writes/wipes.
I am looking for someone to develop an app which analyzes health of the NAND and also possibly predicate number of read/writes completed and remaining.
Any thoughts/ideas??
Ummmmmm....no offense intended but are you serious?
The only way to analyze the "health" of memory would have to be something along the lines of an app that would be able to determine bad disk sectors.
There really isn't a way to just say "Hey, you have a hundred writes left and then kiputz." Its just not feasible....
I could be wrong though....
~Jasecloud4
LMAO.. Funny... i have never thought about it in terms of an app, but i have often wondered if there is a limit to how long the NAND would last... i am a flashaholic!!
sshark said:
Our phones have Samsung kby00u00vm-b450 NAND pre-installed from factory.
With all frequent flashing and wiping, I am worried about how long this NAND will last and does it have a limit on read/writes/wipes.
I am looking for someone to develop an app which analyzes health of the NAND and also possibly predicate number of read/writes completed and remaining.
Any thoughts/ideas??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all RAM has read write limits, and likely flashing/wiping every damn day (like some of us) was not taken into account when creating android phones.
actually not a terrible idea, something like SMART status would be kinda nice...
typical "ram testing" type applications for PCs would not work because they actually read/write to the sectors, and of course we dont want that... hm.
and likely it would have to be run in recovery too.
also, for future reference, try posting this kinda stuff in the Q&A, or general threads.
Every nand is good for exactly 9999 flashes, so just start keeping track of flashes.
jasecloud4 said:
Ummmmmm....no offense intended but are you serious?
The only way to analyze the "health" of memory would have to be something along the lines of an app that would be able to determine bad disk sectors.
~Jasecloud4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does not have to be Android app, it could be low-level memory management/analyzer that could be run from recovery or just from PC.
kingdazy said:
all RAM has read write limits, and likely flashing/wiping every damn day (like some of us) was not taken into account when creating android phones.
actually not a terrible idea, something like SMART status would be kinda nice...
typical "ram testing" type applications for PCs would not work because they actually read/write to the sectors, and of course we dont want that... hm.
and likely it would have to be run in recovery too.
also, for future reference, try posting this kinda stuff in the Q&A, or general threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, something in recovery would be nice, which at least can assess number of good/bad sectors.
Also, if all of the devs agree on a common format, then with each flash or wipe, a cookie/text file can be updated to the SD CARD to reflect dates of all flash/wipes.
Since this is a development request I posted in this section, I know the general rules.
flash destroyer
dangerousprototypes.xxx/2010/05/25/prototype-flash_destroyer
ustream.xxx/channel/flash-destroyer
11,494,060 was the final write count
edit: dont have enough posts for url, replace xxx with com in urls
zoydberg said:
dangerousprototypes.xxx/2010/05/25/prototype-flash_destroyer
ustream.xxx/channel/flash-destroyer
11,494,060 was the final write count
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is this and how did you get it?
Joekrim would be the canidate for this project
snandlal said:
Joekrim would be the canidate for this project
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I will need to get hold of him.
Challenge would be to get everyone (all developers) buy into this common format or something which can really keep track of flash/wipes.
The way we flash is safe, the whole nand corrupt thing correlates to something like a jtag xbox. When I flash through with a lpt (printer) cable, you have to watch the nand, the way we do it is safe and nothing to worry about. If it were an xbox itS recommended to flash as few to one as possible to prevent damage, flash away!
The nand has about 10000 write cycles. If you flash twice a day on average thats almost 15 years.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
sounds like a challenge, lets see who can overflash their NAND first, award TBA at successful brick
sshark said:
Since this is a development request I posted in this section, I know the general rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my bad.
woot! 400 posts.
NewZJ said:
sounds like a challenge, lets see who can overflash their NAND first, award TBA at successful brick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*Raises Hand With Barney Stinson Voice* Challenge accepted!
You know what? This IS a really good idea! I've noticed that all 5 of the EVOs I've gone through (dont ask, long story) have had diminished performance the more I flash... I've grown past flashing EVERY ROM I see, and stuck to a really reliable ROM, and outside of a bad camera sensor (EVO #6 on the way) this one has performed flawlessly. I tried un/rerooting a few times, and that cleared bad/conflicting code, but didn't completely address the issues I was having... not until now did I think about connecting these dots. That being said, 1: THANKS for the eye opener!
2: I'd buy this app! (as I think many devs/ROM free basers would)
Nice work!
sent killing time on my EVO while she watches desperate housewhores...
IP IHI II IL said:
You know what? This IS a really good idea! I've noticed that all 5 of the EVOs I've gone through (dont ask, long story) have had diminished performance the more I flash... I've grown past flashing EVERY ROM I see, and stuck to a really reliable ROM, and outside of a bad camera sensor (EVO #6 on the way) this one has performed flawlessly. I tried un/rerooting a few times, and that cleared bad/conflicting code, but didn't completely address the issues I was having... not until now did I think about connecting these dots. That being said, 1: THANKS for the eye opener!
2: I'd buy this app! (as I think many devs/ROM free basers would)
Nice work!
sent killing time on my EVO while she watches desperate housewhores...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
an app that tells us something we already know? Why doesn't a dev make an app to tell me what phone i have, I think it's an Evo but i want to make sure
iitreatedii said:
Why doesn't a dev make an app to tell me what phone i have, I think it's an Evo but i want to make sure
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check out ROM Manager. When you click on flash cwm recovery it tells you what phone you have and asks you to confirm it. I don't know if it works for all phones but I can confirm it correctly identifies my phone as a CDMA Evo and correctly identifies my Nook Color.
doesn't recognize my nook color! it keeps calling it a encore, wtf!
Thread moved to Q&A.
May seem like an odd question but on my old Kaiser (Windows phone I know) I started to get block errors after flashing Android to NAND repeatedly. The developers and gurus there said it was a known problem and that it would continue to worsen, at which point I stopped
The question is, is it possible to over flash the G2?
I KNOW... different device/hardware/OS and all but I confess to being concerned. Is there any chance that repeated flashing is going to cause long term issues?
Don't think you can but I would like a straight answer from someone who knows what there talking about also
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
No. Things just age with use.
It's like the same question with computers, If i never shut it down will it kill my computer? If i reformat my hard drive too much will it kill it? no. while many factors do need to be take into consideration but not so much with phones, And most electronics do have hours powered on stats and each device does have that. but as far as phones i really couldnt tell you.
flash memory can be rewritten 100,000,000 times..... so the answer is yes... (thats a real fact btw)
master.peterm said:
flash memory can be rewritten 100,000,000 times..... so the answer is yes... (thats a real fact btw)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but not typical. i have a better chance in dropping my phone in the toilet then over flashing haha.
master.peterm said:
flash memory can be rewritten 100,000,000 times..... so the answer is yes... (thats a real fact btw)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh crap! Since I'm a 'flashaoholic' Its getting up there on that many time times! GEEZ!
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk
Once a week....
Thanks to all for the answers. I guess I've got a long way to go to 1,000,000,000 but if devs keep putting out new and improved ROMs I'll keep flashing them.
Good to know the concensus is that, even at one a week I have a few years worth
NAND is typically good to at least tens or hundreds of thousands of read/writes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory
So even for flashaholics, the frequency of flashing is really not much of a concern. Sure, there is some tiny possibility that memory can randomly fail at any time. And the more you do it, the higher the chance of that occuring. But its not significant, and I wouldn't worry about it.
Even when talking about flash memory on things like SSD drives, that get re-written much more frequently, I believe the mean failure time is often spoken of as being at least 10 years, and often much longer due to various wear-leveling techniques.
xamadeix said:
No. Things just age with use.
It's like the same question with computers, If i never shut it down will it kill my computer? If i reformat my hard drive too much will it kill it? no. while many factors do need to be take into consideration but not so much with phones, And most electronics do have hours powered on stats and each device does have that. but as far as phones i really couldnt tell you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh I disagree. Reformatting too much can be a problem with flash memory. My mother, for example, always used to reformat her camera SD card instead of just erasing all the images normally (I know, facepalm). Over only two or three years, her pictures were unable to be developed because the SD card was corrupt. The gold strips on it looked like they had been beat to hell. It wasn't a cheap brand either, it was a Sandisk.
Although, with phones I don't think it's a problem. Lets face it, most of us won't have the same phone for over two years, many won't even have them past one year. We won't be using our phones long enough to get to that point.
slapshot30 said:
Eh I disagree. Reformatting too much can be a problem with flash memory. My mother, for example, always used to reformat her camera SD card instead of just erasing all the images normally (I know, facepalm). Over only two or three years, her pictures were unable to be developed because the SD card was corrupt. The gold strips on it looked like they had been beat to hell. It wasn't a cheap brand either, it was a Sandisk.
Although, with phones I don't think it's a problem. Lets face it, most of us won't have the same phone for over two years, many won't even have them past one year. We won't be using our phones long enough to get to that point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know how you thought that reformatting something could physically damage the gold contacts on it. That's probably because she took the card out and put it back in a ton of times.
Sent from my G2 running Cyanogenmod 7.
Omg i was actually thinking of your question.. cause my battery is really hot!! Hopefully its not for that reason.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
ibemad1 said:
I don't know how you thought that reformatting something could physically damage the gold contacts on it. That's probably because she took the card out and put it back in a ton of times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it sounds like some physical abuse, and not just from reformatting it. I've swapped SD and Micro-SD cards in and out of devices and card readers countless times, and never had any damage to the contacts. Mama might be inserted the card incorrectly, or to forcefully.
In any case, that example is just anecdotal. The failure could have been for any random reason. Memory can just stop working one day. Doesn't mean that formatting it was the cause.
Wow....didnt even know that overflashing is possible. ...... . But still on a low number i will get there in less than 10 years (maybe)
So I finally bricked yesterday (thank god for Sprint's insurance program) and I started thinking, is there such a thing as flashing too much?
It wasn't during the actual flash itself, my phone was just sitting on the charger, and suddenly, my phone wouldn't power on anymore. I think maybe the motherboard is fried. It's been a particularly flash heavy week for me (I've been messing around with a number of different ICS builds, maybe one every other day) so I got to thinking, is there such a thing as flashing too much? I'm no electrical engineer, but logic tells me that all the constant reboots and power up/downs required for flashing can't be good for the hardware if excessive
So the question remains, do you guys think there is an appropriate number of times a phone should be flashed in a certain time period?
elterible said:
So I finally bricked yesterday (thank god for Sprint's insurance program) and I started thinking, is there such a thing as flashing too much?
It wasn't during the actual flash itself, my phone was just sitting on the charger, and suddenly, my phone wouldn't power on anymore. I think maybe the motherboard is fried. It's been a particularly flash heavy week for me (I've been messing around with a number of different ICS builds, maybe one every other day) so I got to thinking, is there such a thing as flashing too much? I'm no electrical engineer, but logic tells me that all the constant reboots and power up/downs required for flashing can't be good for the hardware if excessive
So the question remains, do you guys think there is an appropriate number of times a phone should be flashed in a certain time period?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL you are not seriously asking flash-a-holics if there is a limit... Does and alcoholic ever think he has had one too many...
*Flash or Bust*
Well, yeah. If you flash people too much, you'll eventually get arrested. That's sick.
Well on my thunderbolt I flashed a recovery about 12 times without rebooting once.... ;P
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
playya said:
LOL you are not seriously asking flash-a-holics if there is a limit... Does and alcoholic ever think he has had one too many...
*Flash or Bust*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, yeah i hear ya. I realize I am asking a loaded question a group of people who love to "tinker" but my question was more to the technical hardware aspects. i.e. can excessive flashing and subsequent constant reboots lead to hardware failures?
From a moral standpoint and being an avid Rockfest attendee in Kansas City - no, you can not flash too much (please god, women only and not the whales)
From a technical point, yes you can flash too much. However, the possibility of you ever reaching that limit in the lifetime of a phone is almost nonexistent. We're talking about write cycles which with modern NAND chips and sdcards, it's in the hundreds of thousands. Some are lower since they obviously are not intended to be written to more than a couple times in their lifetime (BIOS, older phones where the NAND contained only the system, bootloaders, radio, and recovery, and so on). Other things like sdcards or even RAM have limited but very high write cycle limits. Ram obviously being on the extreme end of the spectrum.
In short you *can* flash too many times but you never will. Again this is an average as some memory can fail after a couple dozen writes due to flaws.
KCRic said:
From a moral standpoint and being an avid Rockfest attendee in Kansas City - no, you can not flash too much (please god, women only and not the whales)
From a technical point, yes you can flash too much. However, the possibility of you ever reaching that limit in the lifetime of a phone is almost nonexistent. We're talking about write cycles which with modern NAND chips and sdcards, it's in the hundreds of thousands. Some are lower since they obviously are not intended to be written to more than a couple times in their lifetime (BIOS, older phones where the NAND contained only the system, bootloaders, radio, and recovery, and so on). Other things like sdcards or even RAM have limited but very high write cycle limits. Ram obviously being on the extreme end of the spectrum.
In short you *can* flash too many times but you never will. Again this is an average as some memory can fail after a couple dozen writes due to flaws.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you!
My TMobile Samsung s21fe 5g freezes and reboots repeatedly over and over. It's not boot loop cause it stays frozen for 2 min approximately before reboot. I have hard reset, factory reset,ect and nothing's helped. Please help meee! Thank you
Welcome to XDA.
Does it happen when on the boot menu?
Can it stay on in that state?
Was the firmware recently upgraded or updated?
blackhawk said:
Welcome to XDA.
Does it happen when on the boot menu?
Can it stay on in that state?
Was the firmware recently upgraded or updated?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's starts as soon as I put pattern to unlock in it. It had update couple months ago and was fine but earlier I used Odin and flashed the firmware. Odin said it was successful but the phone gave me this message I will link. Only think I can guess to do is twrp maybe and go from there? Any help would be great and ty!
Try flashing to the original firmware that worked.
If it's not firmware, it's hardware.
A different rom may bypass the damage if that's the cause.
This far more trouble than I ever experienced with Androids. My running rule is to leave the firmware alone, lol with Samsung's it has served me well.
Thank you I will try. Does it matter on rom choice? I have never ran into issues like this unless I caused them trying things I new nothing about lol. With it saying corrupted and the factory reset it but once reset it changes nothing that kinda throws me a little. I'm gonna keep trying due to really like the s21 but that's wearing thin after this. Thanks again
bchatter said:
Thank you I will try. Does it matter on rom choice? I have never ran into issues like this unless I caused them trying things I new nothing about lol. With it saying corrupted and the factory reset it but once reset it changes nothing that kinda throws me a little. I'm gonna keep trying due to really like the s21 but that's wearing thin after this. Thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go back before the most recent firmware upgrade or update.
There are billions of transistors in the SOC, ever wonder what happens if one or more fail?
If this is the case a different rom may not use the damaged area. There maybe no work around if this is the case. It's possible a BGA chipset has a fractured solder joint as well or anyone of numerous possible mobo failures.
Always protect phones from high G load impacts from drops with a good case. These can even cause internal damage to chipsets. Mobos are intolerant to board flexing as well. It's remarkable these devices are as robust as they normally are, all things considered.
Perfect, again thanks so much for input. I am gonna try and see what happens cause that make since. Appreciate your time to me help and take care!