Microsoft says about updating:
"Before you start
1 Install the Zune software on your PC or Windows Phone 7 Connector on your Mac. You'll need these programs to download the update to your phone."
Why on earth do you need to install software on your PC to update your phone? The update goes from Microsoft and has to reach the phone; why are they using the PC as an intermediary?
What does the phone need a PC at all? It's its own operating system, has its own data and applications.
Is this something that is going to be fixed when WP7/8 is business-ready? Businesses are hardly going to roll out Zune software across corporate PCs.
I have a suspicion this is connected to the failure. Windows has countless updates and close to none of them are failures. WP7 has had one minor update and it was a failure. They are introducing extra complexity, incorrectness, and unreliability into the system with Zune.
mcfly ? hellllo mcfly ?
I wonder if microsoft is paying attention ?
CSMR said:
Microsoft says about updating:
"Before you start
1 Install the Zune software on your PC or Windows Phone 7 Connector on your Mac. You'll need these programs to download the update to your phone."
Why on earth do you need to install software on your PC to update your phone? The update goes from Microsoft and has to reach the phone; why are they using the PC as an intermediary?
What does the phone need a PC at all? It's its own operating system, has its own data and applications.
Is this something that is going to be fixed when WP7/8 is business-ready? Businesses are hardly going to roll out Zune software across corporate PCs.
I have a suspicion this is connected to the failure. Windows has countless updates and close to none of them are failures. WP7 has had one minor update and it was a failure. They are introducing extra complexity, incorrectness, and unreliability into the system with Zune.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used SE phones for years and in order to update firmware you always had to connect to PC and use OEM software to update the device. It isn't extraordinary.
ohgood said:
I wonder if microsoft is paying attention ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you even own a wp7?
Well, let's just say if you were to extract the update on the phone, then there would probably not be enough space for it. Also, the connection with Zune allows a backup of the phone to be taken, so if your update fails, or you want to restore to a previous backup, you are able to do so. Stop complaining.
sure haven't said:
Do you even own a wp7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no. I don't own an iPhone, symbian, landline phone, xbox, or windows pc, boat, pig, or elephant either. the short time I've spent with demo (I have friends that sell) units proved I can't use wp7 on a daily basis for simple tasks -yet-.
if the update is less than 20mb it will be OTA, but if it's bigger and requires changing the lower layers of the OS, then you are required to connect it to your PC.
connecting it to your PC and using Zune software also provides the ability for a backup/restore capability. though as we have seen, it's still being ironed out...
Look, I am so incredibly happy that Zune was required for this phone, as I had no idea of how awesome it was, honestly. I always pushed it to the side for WMP and now I regret it, as the Zune Pass is the greatest thing I've ever spent money on. Dealing with the update, it allows for stability. I, personally, would never want my phone updating over the air when it comes to an entire OS update. Too many factors, too many things can go wrong, I prefer to let my PC handle the process. It's worked for Apple, while it's gone wrong for Google not to use software...
ohgood said:
no. I don't own an iPhone, symbian, landline phone, xbox, or windows pc, boat, pig, or elephant either. the short time I've spent with demo (I have friends that sell) units proved I can't use wp7 on a daily basis for simple tasks -yet-.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems rather strange - I swapped from an HD2 to the amazing HD7 and apart from missing a few games and apps I CAN use it for everyday tasks with no problems at all. It syncs with my work Exchange server faultlessly, and allows me to view office files without the need for extras. Indeed my IT manager has been so impressed with its smooth integration into our mainly 'Blackberry & iPhone' infrastructure that he has got himself a WP7 device as well now!
Yes there are a few bits missing but I can hardly believe it is unusable in your environment. Most descent coming to the WP7 forums comes from people who either do not even have a device or from those who listen to wining from users who expected far too much from a new OS. All this complaining about updates is laughable as iOS took ages to get an update and so did Android.. yet MS takes less than 6 months to be ready with an update and people moan! LOL.
I thought the PC/Zune requirement was already explained somewhere...
-Zune is used to both download and apply the update to your phone. This eliminates the need to download large (or small) updates through your device's data plan and therefore removes that obstacle in the case of limited data plans.
-Zune also takes care of the backing up (and restoring) of the phone in case of issues.
I'm not too sure what's so complicated about plugging your phone into a computer that should already have the Zune software installed (since it is your only method of syncing content to your phone). If anything, the fact that Zune creates backups makes its a far more reliable method then crossing your fingers and hoping your phone can do it all for you. Imagine if all the phones that failed to update were not initially backed up or didn't have Zune to restore the phone? There would be a great deal more angry consumers. Not to mention, you'd have to download something extra anyway that would do the backing up/restoring for you.
Yes, it is a couple extra steps initially, but it seems like a small price to pay when you think about how you would have to solve your own issues if Zune and backups did not exist.
The Gate Keeper said:
if the update is less than 20mb it will be OTA, but if it's bigger and requires changing the lower layers of the OS, then you are required to connect it to your PC.
connecting it to your PC and using Zune software also provides the ability for a backup/restore capability. though as we have seen, it's still being ironed out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but any phone updates must be done through the PC because the phone needs to be backed up before the update can take place. The size doesn't matter. The 20 MB rule ONLY applies to games/apps on the Marketplace.
prjkthack said:
I thought the PC/Zune requirement was already explained somewhere...
-Zune is used to both download and apply the update to your phone. This eliminates the need to download large (or small) updates through your device's data plan and therefore removes that obstacle in the case of limited data plans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no such need since the phone should be able to access internet via wifi or via a usb connection to the PC. If there is no such connection you can't use Zune, so Zune is a strict disadvantage here, not an advantage.
-Zune also takes care of the backing up (and restoring) of the phone in case of issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then this can be an option. Backup is separate to restore as processes, even if they are run at the same time.
I'm not too sure what's so complicated about plugging your phone into a computer that should already have the Zune software installed (since it is your only method of syncing content to your phone)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a terrible aspect of WP7. The question is, when Microsoft adds some of the basic missing features, will updates come over the air and Zune be just an option for consumers.
If anything, the fact that Zune creates backups makes its a far more reliable method then crossing your fingers and hoping your phone can do it all for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Backup software is fine. I have no objection to making backups. There are multiple ways to backup. Backup is not as important with phones as other devices though as it is not a primary location for data storage, or shouldn't be. However yes, you want your particular choice of content for your phone to be backed up, reselecting it from some other source may be inconvenient.
I'm not going to buy a WP7 phone because I'll have to install the Zune software to install OS updates.
ohgood said:
no. I don't own an iPhone, symbian, landline phone, xbox, or windows pc, boat, pig, or elephant either. the short time I've spent with demo (I have friends that sell) units proved I can't use wp7 on a daily basis for simple tasks -yet-.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good for you, but no one asked u for your opinion on this thread.... so stick to your own OS threads...
CSMR said:
There is no such need since the phone should be able to access internet via wifi or via a usb connection to the PC. If there is no such connection you can't use Zune, so Zune is a strict disadvantage here, not an advantage.
Then this can be an option. Backup is separate to restore as processes, even if they are run at the same time.
This is a terrible aspect of WP7. The question is, when Microsoft adds some of the basic missing features, will updates come over the air and Zune be just an option for consumers.
Backup software is fine. I have no objection to making backups. There are multiple ways to backup. Backup is not as important with phones as other devices though as it is not a primary location for data storage, or shouldn't be. However yes, you want your particular choice of content for your phone to be backed up, reselecting it from some other source may be inconvenient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if u dont like it dont buy it what is the point *****ing???
CSMR said:
There is no such need since the phone should be able to access internet via wifi or via a usb connection to the PC. If there is no such connection you can't use Zune, so Zune is a strict disadvantage here, not an advantage.
Then this can be an option. Backup is separate to restore as processes, even if they are run at the same time.
This is a terrible aspect of WP7. The question is, when Microsoft adds some of the basic missing features, will updates come over the air and Zune be just an option for consumers.
Backup software is fine. I have no objection to making backups. There are multiple ways to backup. Backup is not as important with phones as other devices though as it is not a primary location for data storage, or shouldn't be. However yes, you want your particular choice of content for your phone to be backed up, reselecting it from some other source may be inconvenient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you ever listen to the wp7 radio podcasts, they just talked about the update last week and decided they would force a backup just to be sure that people didn't screw it up.
It's really not that complicated. If you want OTA updates, get a damn android phone and move on.
mdotgarcia said:
I'm not going to buy a WP7 phone because I'll have to install the Zune software to install OS updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why are you here??? Not to mention zune software has been the most pleasant suprise of my buying the hd7.
CSMR said:
There is no such need since the phone should be able to access internet via wifi or via a usb connection to the PC. If there is no such connection you can't use Zune, so Zune is a strict disadvantage here, not an advantage.
Then this can be an option. Backup is separate to restore as processes, even if they are run at the same time.
This is a terrible aspect of WP7. The question is, when Microsoft adds some of the basic missing features, will updates come over the air and Zune be just an option for consumers.
Backup software is fine. I have no objection to making backups. There are multiple ways to backup. Backup is not as important with phones as other devices though as it is not a primary location for data storage, or shouldn't be. However yes, you want your particular choice of content for your phone to be backed up, reselecting it from some other source may be inconvenient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the end of the day, Zune is here to say, at least for the foreseeable future, so there isn't much point in arguing its existence (or necessity). For most, it brings many conveniences. Its not perfect, and it doesn't work for everyone, but if you decide to buy into this platform and its many advantages, you've gotta roll with the punches.
Another important thing to remember is that no matter how much Microsoft may want this phone to be a viable business option, it isn't (at least in its current form). This platform was designed for the general consumer. Sad to say, but your general consumer isn't too bright. So I understand why backing up during every update is a necessity. I understand why Zune and a PC is required to sync media. I understand why they don't do OTA updating and limit OTA app downloads to under 20 MB.
Some of these things may be slight inconveniences to others, but I appreciate the fact that my phone always has a backup in case something goes wrong, and that I don't have to fumble between 5 different .EXE's or pages of directions to do what I need to do. I just fire up Zune, and it does my syncing, my backups, my restore, the marketplace, podcasts, etc. I mean my goodness, how many different applications did Windows Mobile have to accomplish all this. It was crazy. Windows Phone 7 has nowhere near the amount of issues that Windows Mobile had/has and I love it.
Look at it from a business standpoint too, and it further makes sense. Plug it into your Windows PC and hey that sells software. Require Zune and hey that sells movies, music, games, apps, and Zune Pass subscriptions. It advertises products not only from Microsoft, but using the Zune software is another way for Microsoft to provide access to and advertise the Marketplace to generate more sales and exposure for its developers.
In the grand scheme of things, plugging in your phone to your computer every once in a while is a rather trivial thing to complain about to most people.
prjkthack said:
At the end of the day, Zune is here to say, at least for the foreseeable future, so there isn't much point in arguing its existence (or necessity). For most, it brings many conveniences. Its not perfect, and it doesn't work for everyone, but if you decide to buy into this platform and its many advantages, you've gotta roll with the punches.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. It should be there. There should also be alternatives for businesses or anyone who is not the mass consumer.
Another important thing to remember is that no matter how much Microsoft may want this phone to be a viable business option, it isn't (at least in its current form). This platform was designed for the general consumer. Sad to say, but your general consumer isn't too bright. So I understand why backing up during every update is a necessity. I understand why Zune and a PC is required to sync media. I understand why they don't do OTA updating and limit OTA app downloads to under 20 MB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a good point, but Microsoft would be crazy to abandon business. They called it WP7, not Kin 2, and they know they need to cater to business at some point.
Some of these things may be slight inconveniences to others, but I appreciate the fact that my phone always has a backup in case something goes wrong, and that I don't have to fumble between 5 different .EXE's or pages of directions to do what I need to do. I just fire up Zune, and it does my syncing, my backups, my restore, the marketplace, podcasts, etc. I mean my goodness, how many different applications did Windows Mobile have to accomplish all this. It was crazy. Windows Phone 7 has nowhere near the amount of issues that Windows Mobile had/has and I love it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see that. It's a minimal system that is easy. The problem with Zune is if it is so integrated that there is no alternative. Then it's a phone that is targeted towards entertainment but cannot be a business phone. Instead, the convenience features should be an added, optional layer on top of the OS, not integrated into the OS.
In the grand scheme of things, plugging in your phone to your computer every once in a while is a rather trivial thing to complain about to most people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fair. It's more of an architecturaral issue, that integration may be tying down the platform to specific uses and types of customer.
I don't understand the problem. iPhones require a connection to iTunes to update from what I recall, and those have been integrated into a business environment. I don't see how this is any different.
FiyaFleye said:
Look, I am so incredibly happy that Zune was required for this phone, as I had no idea of how awesome it was, honestly. I always pushed it to the side for WMP and now I regret it, as the Zune Pass is the greatest thing I've ever spent money on...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 exactly!
and now what..
w/ windows mobile device center and active zinc ""?
Related
I can see a lot of techie people getting very upset about what's been revealed about WP7S, and I'm starting to think that although I too was initially a bit ruffled, much of it really doesn't matter.
1. No SSD support
I always buy the biggest SSD I can, shove it into my new phone, and promptly forget about it. I can't recall the last time I upgraded to a bigger SSD without upgrading my phone at the same time, such is the rate of progress. Indeed, the iPhone, with its internal memory, always seems to be one step ahead of SSD-capable phones. My HD2 has a 16GB SSD, the iPhone has 32GB of memory. 32GB SSDs aren't even available. I never, ever take the SSD out of the phone once it's in there. So for me, removable memory just isn't an issue.
2. Multitasking
I thought I needed this, but looking at the apps I use on my HD2, I can only see one that really genuinely need multitasking, and that's Palringo. As far as I can tell, chat is going to be integrated into the Panels thingy so I probably won't even need to install Palringo anyway. Pausing apps when I switch away from them will be just fine with me.
3. Marketplace
I've never developed my own apps, nor do I intend to, nor do I operate in a corporate environment. Downloading apps from a central marketplace will be 100 times easier than having to trawl through Handango etc for some frankly pretty ****e apps to try to find decent ones. At least the apps in the store will have gone through a vetting process. I just hope Microsoft aren't as draconian as Apple in what they reject. Also, when downloading an app I won't have to choose between speed (install to memory) and space (install to SSD). I will get BOTH without having to decide at all. Sounds good to me!
4. Inter-app communications etc.
I don't believe WM6.5 apps do that anyway!
There you go, flame away - I for one will be much happier with a WP7S phone than I have been with WM6.5.
Jim Coleman said:
4. Inter-app communications etc.
I don't believe WM6.5 apps do that anyway!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are very wrong here.
vangrieg said:
You are very wrong here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me rephrase then - I don't believe any of the apps I use do it.
Cash Organizer
Pocket Informant
GCzII
KeePass
Palringo
TomTom 7
Jim Coleman said:
3. Marketplace
I've never developed my own apps, nor do I intend to, nor do I operate in a corporate environment. Downloading apps from a central marketplace will be 100 times easier than having to trawl through Handango etc for some frankly pretty ****e apps to try to find decent ones. At least the apps in the store will have gone through a vetting process. I just hope Microsoft aren't as draconian as Apple in what they reject. Also, when downloading an app I won't have to choose between speed (install to memory) and space (install to SSD). I will get BOTH without having to decide at all. Sounds good to me!
4. Inter-app communications etc.
I don't believe WM6.5 apps do that anyway!
There you go, flame away - I for one will be much happier with a WP7S phone than I have been with WM6.5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't like the idea that i have to install apps through marketplace, unless the downloaded apps could be saved on the internal/external storage so i can manually install it again if i have to hard reset my device if nescesary.
Imagine you're on vacation, somewhere across the border and suddenly you need to hard reset your device because... because you just had to.
now... installing apps through marketplace requires an data connection, wich of course, you don't have (besides wifi) if you were in another country. Or you'd like to pay for data roaming.
hyellow said:
I don't like the idea that i have to install apps through marketplace, unless the downloaded apps could be saved on the internal/external storage so i can manually install it again if i have to hard reset my device if nescesary.
Imagine you're on vacation, somewhere across the border and suddenly you need to hard reset your device because... because you just had to.
now... installing apps through marketplace requires an data connection, wich of course, you don't have (besides wifi) if you were in another country. Or you'd like to pay for data roaming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is no external storage so without a pc u wont be able to put your info back on without a wifi or data connection which would work like myphone does now. not sure how u would put your apps back on without re downloading all of them from marketplace.
saying this im guess the phone is less likely to go wrong and will be very similar to how a iphone works.
hyellow said:
I don't like the idea that i have to install apps through marketplace, unless the downloaded apps could be saved on the internal/external storage so i can manually install it again if i have to hard reset my device if nescesary.
Imagine you're on vacation, somewhere across the border and suddenly you need to hard reset your device because... because you just had to.
now... installing apps through marketplace requires an data connection, wich of course, you don't have (besides wifi) if you were in another country. Or you'd like to pay for data roaming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From my own perspective, I never keep copies of the cab files for my apps on my phone anyway, so that wouldn't help me. Nore have I ever had to do a hard reset on my HD2 (except once for the dreaded lock password issue, now I don't use a lock password). Plus, as there IS NO SSD to store them on, it's kind of a moot point.
I don't like that Marketplace is the only way to install app.
That means MS can potentially shut out competitive product like google map, search etc. This is getting more like apple to me.
Also, if not SD support and no USB Device mode, it's a no go for me.
I'd like to store photos, music and even pc apps etc on my SD in case I need it.
Plus, should your phone become bricked, good luck trying to access to all your content.
wmserver said:
I don't like that Marketplace is the only way to install app.
That means MS can potentially shut out competitive product like google map, search etc. This is getting more like apple to me.
Also, if not SD support and no USB Device mode, it's a no go for me.
I'd like to store photos, music and even pc apps etc on my SD in case I need it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft have already said they will allow all competitors' apps, and I hope that will always remain true. Regarding USB file transfer, have Microsoft specifically said it won't be supported? (I'm not sure)
Jim Coleman said:
Microsoft have already said they will allow all competitors' apps, and I hope that will always remain true. Regarding USB file transfer, have Microsoft specifically said it won't be supported? (I'm not sure)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ms has said u cant use wm7 as a usb drive, they also said that bing must be used for search, not sure if it must be used for maps too.
wmserver said:
I don't like that Marketplace is the only way to install app.
That means MS can potentially shut out competitive product like google map, search etc. This is getting more like apple to me.
Also, if not SD support and no USB Device mode, it's a no go for me.
I'd like to store photos, music and even pc apps etc on my SD in case I need it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you still access photos, music etc. with the new media sync application (forgot the name). Indeed it seems to be a major feature of WP7!
But I also use my phone as USB stick, using it for non-media stuff, which I assume won't be possible anymore.
I experienced once incident during holiday to Spain, this is real story.
I was using TomTom and HTC Kaiser. All of sudden, the TomTom application stuck, I could not interact with it ... except hitting the soft-reset hole.
After soft reset, all content in my sd card gone, including the TomTom map.
I really hate that situation because I rely only on my TomTom
Lessen learned, I always keep second SD card on my bag during holiday which contain exactly the same.
So there you go, I think SD card is required.
The thing is, I am willing to sacrifice without SD Card. Probably the above incident was caused by "bad" sd card. With internal storage, probably it will be much more reliable. Ok that's fine.
But ........................
I want a way to EASILY store my files (big files) on the phone. Files like software utility etc. That's handy.
With no file manager ... and no sd card slot, I cannot picture this possible easily.
Probably I could use Zune software (ala iTunes)???
But that will defeat the purpose of having those files available all the time. Because other PC might not have Zune software!
Hmm, using email to transfer file? Yeah right, 3G is still slow compared to direct copy from sd card ! And imagine when roaming to pay data connection.
This is what I really dont like about WP7 ...
I can live without multitasking and side loading, no problem with that.
Jim Coleman said:
From my own perspective, I never keep copies of the cab files for my apps on my phone anyway, so that wouldn't help me. Nore have I ever had to do a hard reset on my HD2 (except once for the dreaded lock password issue, now I don't use a lock password). Plus, as there IS NO SSD to store them on, it's kind of a moot point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I remember yesterday, when someone asked Joe Belfiore ... "Will there be Mac support?"
His answer was something like "You dont need PC to be able to use Windows Phone 7 Series" ... "Try to not use PC" ...
Hmm, it'll be a shame to lose the USB drive functionality, but I only really ever used that to load cab files onto my phone (which will be moot as marketplace will be the way to get apps) from my work PC, but I can live without doing that, especially as I shouldn't have been doing that anyway (ahem).
An advantage of using the Zune software to put files onto the phone will be the inbuilt compression and media format conversion though, which will be nice.
I should add that I carry a 32GB memorystick around with me (it's on my house keyfob) and use that for pretty much all my file transfer needs. My phone is so stuffed with mp3s that it has virtually no free space on its SSD, hence it's pretty useless for file transfer anyway!
Yes Jim, I think I must think the same approach.
At this moment, I also carrying 4GB super small micro sd card on my pocket.
I think I need to find one as a key-chain.
Jim Coleman said:
Hmm, it'll be a shame to lose the USB drive functionality, but I only really ever used that to load cab files onto my phone (which will be moot as marketplace will be the way to get apps) from my work PC, but I can live without doing that, especially as I shouldn't have been doing that anyway (ahem).
An advantage of using the Zune software to put files onto the phone will be the inbuilt compression and media format conversion though, which will be nice.
I should add that I carry a 32GB memorystick around with me (it's on my house keyfob) and use that for pretty much all my file transfer needs. My phone is so stuffed with mp3s that it has virtually no free space on its SSD, hence it's pretty useless for file transfer anyway!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Satnav application vendors often distribute their maps by selling you an SD card with the maps pre-installed on it. How's that going to work without an SD card slot? Are people going to download several gigabytes worth of maps over the data connection?
The way it works for iPhone is pretty straightforward - downloads over 10MB go via iTunes (you can choose to download everything this way, BTW).
double post
I really don't understand this no SD card thing. If I interpreted the post where I read that information correctly. It's not even that there are no SD cards allowed, it's that they don't want removable SD cards.
I think they said the vendor could have an unremovable SD card if they chose (behind the battery). I'm hoping I mis-interpreted this, I see little reason or sense in having SD card support but making them non-removable. That would just further upset me about that .
But I guess isn't not that big a deal since there's no file management on the device which is an even bigger problem. It's almost like they're trying to alienate their business clients.
Ganondolf said:
saying this im guess the phone is less likely to go wrong and will be very similar to how a iphone works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You think iphones don't go wrong?
Anyhow as far as I can work out most of the new stuff in WP7S compared to WM is lame and actually relates to loss of functionality, with only the potential for easier development being offered in return. If useful apps materialise then maybe the damage won't be that bad but they are sacrificing everything for potential gain.
The fact is though that windows mobile grew on PDAs, and I think most people who want a WM phone want a PDA with a phone attached to it, with the feel of a "PC" in your "pocket". WP7S seems targeted at a completely different consumer who just wants a phone with a flashy touchscreen display. The thing is iphone does that perfectly well already. I don't see anything I want in WP7S, and there's nothing that has been described that I can't get elsewhere in an ordinary (modern) phone. It had better be a better product because I doubt there would be any customer loyalty between 6.5 and 7.
gom99 said:
I really don't understand this no SD card thing.
....
But I guess isn't not that big a deal since there's no file management on the device which is an even bigger problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you obviously understand the no SD card thing - there's nothing you could do with the card in WP7S with no file system access.
Firstly let me say these are just some of the opinions of staff I've spoken too at 3 O2 shops in my area.
Basically, my upgrade is due next week and I've been looking forward to the new WP7 and the HD7 although I now know the transition will be painful. I wanted to have a play before hand so popped into their shops. I went to 3 because the first 2 hadn't had any hand sets delivered - Only some posters and plastic handsets. They also had next to no knowledge of the phones and pretty much shrugged their shoulders about it.
The third shop had a demo only......which stopped working altogether yesterday. They quoted some dead pixels and then it just gave up. No other explanation given
None of the shops know when they will actually receive any stock.
They all were suggesting I go for the new Blackberry (won't touch these) or an Android phone. Only one lady suggested a iPhone (again not going there).
One guy suggested that this may be a complete flop and we had an interesting conversation as to why he thought so, some of his comments I thought were total gash but he had a point on others. He mentioned that some of the apps on the market place were crashing the device (has anyone any knowledge of this?), or slow (already seeing comments about this on here). To be fair, he was the only one who knew any details about the phone. He suggested that the real release will be after the first update (so Jan), and that at the moment this release was considered to be a real world testing phase.
So none of this is looking promising for the moment. I'm desperate for a new phone - my X1i is pretty long in the tooth now. I'm already installing SBS with Exchange on one of my machines so I don't have to keep my contact and calender items on Live (testing of using the connector is showing loss of data, categories and irregularities which I can't explain or make no sense).
Just thought I'd pass this on.
So basically they have no win phomes and want to sell you something else to make some commission. Why does anyone listen to these salespeople?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
So basically they have no win phomes and want to sell you something else to make some commission. Why does anyone listen to these salespeople?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically - yes. I get the impression that they don't know anything about the phone or OS in the first place to push a sale even if they had the stock.
To be fair, I'll be getting mine via O2 retentions anyway.
Unless the CLR is broken or the Silverlight base library is buggy as hell in the PInvoke parts that interact with the low level system, I really doubt that the apps will crash the phone.
Tom Servo said:
Unless the CLR is broken or the Silverlight base library is buggy as hell in the PInvoke parts that interact with the low level system, I really doubt that the apps will crash the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there have been
some data programs that have a lot of data from rss feeds aren't nearly as smooth as microsoft software (eg email sms and the like)
I don't think its an issue that a quick ota (january) will fix however so in that I agree with the CS rep.
The OS is new and so a few bugs are to be expected. I think once they release the update in Jan it will be much better.
I don't think that they can think it will be a flop as it hasn't even been released in the US and thats where M$ will probably do most of its advertising.
domineus said:
there have been
some data programs that have a lot of data from rss feeds aren't nearly as smooth as microsoft software (eg email sms and the like)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That means nothing without the source code available. The applications could for instance do not make use of threading to mitigate these issues, maybe overload various controls with data instead of using on-demand loading (and unloading), etc blah blah.
My experience with o2 was a bit better. Well the other half went into one of the Guildford stores to pick up two phones for us before she went into work. There were already some people buying some and she overheard one of the staff members say after she brought those they’d have four left, but then the guy she was dealing with said it was the last one, obviously not wanting to shift two of them on PAYG. So I made my own way into Aldershot to pick one up, and the staff in there seemed pretty enthusiastic about the HD7 and actually knew a bit about them. Was somewhat impressed. I'd be more impressed if they offered me a cradle instead of a case though.
As for the crashing applications, as already said they don't crash the phone, it just falls back to the Start screen. The one that got a bit of attention was the Xbox Live Extras application (which lets you send messages, customise your avatar etc) doesn't seem to be working on HTC phones, it was pulled off the Marketplace yesterday and a fix is going through certification now and should be up in a few days.
Some 3rd party applications aren't as smooth as the Microsoft stuff, you can tell the difference between them but they aren't what I would call slow. Load times weren't as bad as I was expecting for the games either.
I'm yet to find a member of staff in any phone shop that heard of windows phone 7
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Just got one. Installed all free apps on market place just to test. Did not yet encounter any problems except one, how do you activesync it to outlook?!?!?!?!?!
I on the other hand had a good experience from O2 and the HD7 with Win Phone 7.
The Basingstoke store had a working demo and the sales guy was very enthuastic about the phone and demo'd it and let me play with the phone for about 15 minutes. The experience was very good of WP7 and now really keen to have it....either on my HD2 or to get a HD7.
I expect it not to be perfect, but from other articles and the sales guy the WP7 OS will get updates regulary which presumably will fix bugs, just like a home OS.
So...HD2 and wait.....or sell HD2 and get HD7???
domineus said:
there have been
some data programs that have a lot of data from rss feeds aren't nearly as smooth as microsoft software (eg email sms and the like)
I don't think its an issue that a quick ota (january) will fix however so in that I agree with the CS rep.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is very likely down to a badly written app and has nothing to do with Microsoft (other than the fact they allowed a sub-par app onto the marketplace).
lee-bowman said:
So...HD2 and wait.....or sell HD2 and get HD7???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless you really want a HD7 I would stick it out and see if you can get the 16GB Omnia 7 instead. The screen is that much better even if it is slightly smaller, as is the camera. The HD7 feels like a cheap knockoff in comparison. The only reason I got the HD7 was 8GB on the Samsung, but will definitely swap it out if it turns out I can get my hands on the 16GB version.
ruscik said:
Just got one. Installed all free apps on market place just to test. Did not yet encounter any problems except one, how do you activesync it to outlook?!?!?!?!?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't. Exchange ActiveSync only.
Mind you even Hotmail can almost replicate the feature set of Exchange 2003 nowadays, all it's lacking is Tasks (not supported on WP7) and the fancy meeting arangement stuff.
I would like to also share my story I went to my local town and the only shop to have had any wp7 handsets was o2 but had sold out only 15 mins after opening, Orange said demand was so high only big stores had any others said due sometime thus month. I want back to o2 store and they phoned around and reserved one in another store got it no problem but was last one they had. I think everyone underestimated the os and didn't have the stock to cover demand so I'm not worried about popularity. The sales ppl will say anything to sell what they have in stock. Apps rock esp the games i recomed harvest and twin blades i have been playing for hours, and that's bearing in mind i have also just bought f1 2010 for my Xbox. Don't get put off phone around you will be glad you did
daSmirnov said:
It doesn't. Exchange ActiveSync only.
Mind you even Hotmail can almost replicate the feature set of Exchange 2003 nowadays, all it's lacking is Tasks (not supported on WP7) and the fancy meeting arangement stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I am aware you can active sync via exchange with hotmail and Gmail but with Gmail I know you can sync outlook with Google calender and thus ph7 its a bit of a long workaround but it works
I rang around a few O2 stores around the south of Ireland on Wednesday (the day before the release) to check availability, and 3 out of 4 staff had no idea what I was talking about (even in one or two larger stores).
The last store I rang knew exactly what I was talking about, checked their system, saw that they had one handset due in in the morning, and reserved it for me. Champion.
I was quite nervous about abandoning WM 6.5 for WP7, but after a few days of use I'm really happy. It does all the basics incredibly well (SMS, calls, calendar, email). Web browsing is a pleasure. Everything is fast and it works just as it should.
There is nowhere near the level of customisation that regular 6.5 fanboys would be used to, so if you are expecting to be able to change SMS font size, calendar notification ringtones etc etc then you will be disappointed. The approach here is "Keep It Simple, Stupid" and it works really well. You've just got to go with the flow.
All I'm really waiting for now is a decent GPS Navigation app (along the lines of iGo) and a replacement for SPB Wallet (I believe eWallet is en route shortly) and I'll be a happy camper.
Oh and I've had a crash just the once so far, when I launched the Seesmic app for the first time. The screen locked up and the device rebooted itself. Hasn't happened since, hopefully won't happen too often!
They all know about it here in Birmingham city center!
(In carrier shops... Phones4U and Carphone Warehouse don't get the phones yet)
They've had Windows Phone reps ushering people around in the street.
All O2 shops have HD7 demo units about if you ask, or even on custom displays.
Orange shops have HTC Mozart and Omnia 7.
(But reluctant to get Omnia out now as they seem to be investing a lot of Advertising in the Mozart... went to another shop and made friends with a guy and got one!)
Even Vodafone shop has the HTC Trophy banging about and leaflets for it etc!
daSmirnov said:
It doesn't. Exchange ActiveSync only.
Mind you even Hotmail can almost replicate the feature set of Exchange 2003 nowadays, all it's lacking is Tasks (not supported on WP7) and the fancy meeting arangement stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lumpaywk said:
As far as I am aware you can active sync via exchange with hotmail and Gmail but with Gmail I know you can sync outlook with Google calender and thus ph7 its a bit of a long workaround but it works
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but none of that is a proper solution.
If you sync your outlook contacts with hotmail you loose a lot of data that is normally stored in them, pictures, certain type of contact detail that hotmail does not support.
That is minor however the first live ID you use on the phone needs to be the actual one as that is the live ID that will be used with zune, xbox live and all other apps. No live ID no phone.
AKA my outlook contacts get mixed with my messenger contacts.
Only way around it is to open another hotmail account.
On top of that all contacts are erased if you delete your hotmail profile created on the phone. It has to stay there working. I am not comfortable with having all my contacts in hotmail that is regulary hacked (about every 2 months).
TBH they dropped the bomb there and many other places.
- You cannot transfer files via bluetooth atleast I can not from my laptop, home PC and HD2.
- There is no widgets for main screen to enable/disable wifi/bluetooth on the main screen.
- In no settings for apps that use data (some apps do not even have settings) there is an option to not use data when roaming, this is a major issue as phone constantly goes to internet. Only option is to disable manually all sync, still it will not stop it going off if you click on a app. ---- Partially solved. There is a option insttings to disable all data connections when roaming. So you can stop it all together but no per application option which is very annoying as I always have weather and location enabled to roam. I also check e-mail. Now I will not be able to do that and if I do switch it back on all apps will try o connect.
- There is no GPS software at all
- HTC said there is digital compass ... where?
- No google maps just bing maps
- You can not assign other search providers for now so you stuck with bing.
- You can not change background of the main screen, only option is white or
black
- Do not even start me with the zune music interface and how you have to copy that music
- There is no internet sharing option not even bluetooth as it does not show up when connected to my PC.
you know, it really surprises me at the level of douche-baggery that occurs in these forums, especially the WP7. yes, a lot of features that were previously available either officially or through tweaks for wm 6.5 are gone and pound for pound, the features don't stack up against iOS or android.
but if you're interested in getting a WP7 phone you SHOULD be aware by now of these inherent drawbacks so stop complaining and go elsewhere if you're not satisfied. no one is making you buy these phones. i'm sure most of the bugs will be addressed shortly in ver 1.1 or 2.0. i mean, android didn't really step into its own until 2.0 and neither did iOS.
and i'm saying this even as an iphone 4 user
littleasian said:
you know, it really surprises me at the level of douche-baggery that occurs in these forums, especially the WP7. yes, a lot of features that were previously available either officially or through tweaks for wm 6.5 are gone and pound for pound, the features don't stack up against iOS or android.
but if you're interested in getting a WP7 phone you SHOULD be aware by now of these inherent drawbacks so stop complaining and go elsewhere if you're not satisfied. no one is making you buy these phones. i'm sure most of the bugs will be addressed shortly in ver 1.1 or 2.0. i mean, android didn't really step into its own until 2.0 and neither did iOS.
and i'm saying this even as an iphone 4 user
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I am sorry. I been using HTC's for ages since first o2 one which was just XDA. I been waiting for WP7 as 6.5 was just not it, hardware was there but OS was still acting same slow.
No where have I seen that in WP7 bluetooth will only be for headphones? MS has year of experience in mobile phones basics should have been covered, then again Vista.
I can understand lack of google maps but stuck to bing, they just lost similar case and had to remove IE from win7 replacing it with selection window for other browsers and now this?
Why activesync was removed, why no option to change background they have reverted with WP7 to first Android. WP7 is to be the next thing in long term and not going backwards like they did. Even Android and Iphone can sync with outlook.
It is like getting a sports car with no wheels, all basics are there for great product but it just does not work remotely as good as any other car with wheels.
BTW microsoft removed those functions, they did think about it before doing it (granted assigned wrong people) so it will not be corrected officially for some time. Only possible rescue is regeditor for WP7 and ability to enable services somehow.
So I was thinking, after a error I received when updating my MCE PC.
In regards of PC when microsoft issues an update of windows 7 they do not have to think to much about hardware it is running on as drivers are done by manufacturer, ATI, Nvidia, intel or other. If they ever release a driver via windows update, any other driver the same, if all goes tits up you can go to safe mode and roll back drivers.
Now in case of WM6.5 drivers or other updates were downloaded from phone manufacturers website so they knew best how to mod it for their hardware and if all went tits up you could do a hard reset. Only good, tested mods went in to rom update.
Now with wp7, if I understand correctly, updates will become part of the original rom as there is no rom flashing by user. It has to be like that as if that would not be the case then hard reset could make the phone broken for hours until all your updates were up. So what if microsoft screws up and gets it wrong on their server and lets say HTC downloads a update for LG? It will screw up the phone and hard reset will not help. It does happen for PC's. With time there will be plenty more hardware out there so mistakes will be more likely. All you need is touch screen drivers to be buggy and phone might boot up but no access to it at all.
Who will take the blame for that? At first it will go back to seller on warranty but if there was a mass problem they would say no.
Look at apple, they release an OS update it is permanent. As they only have like 4 phones to deal with it is easy to test it. With time there will be plenty of wp7 models, just look at wm6.5.
How are we protected from that not happening?
Pretty sure updates are tested extensively by microsoft as well as the carriers.
How would WP7 be different than any other mobile OS in this regard?
i think desktop to phone comparison isn't really correct. with windows phone, MS knows what phones are being made and therefore can keep a proper database of these phones. why? well MS provides keys which get built straight into the memory of the phone (the issue with the HTC HD2 not working with WP7). so you won't just get any joe blogs install windows phone 7 on whatever they feel like it (as you do with wm6.5/android). so therefore, it's very rare that you'll get issues where the phone gets incorrect software not intended for it as MS can manage it properly on their servers, as well as pull anything that were rolled out straight off the phone (e.g. if an app misbehaves but somehow makes it through to marketplace, they can send a command to uninstall the app [same as iOS/Android]).
greener88 said:
Pretty sure updates are tested extensively by microsoft as well as the carriers.
How would WP7 be different than any other mobile OS in this regard?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On WM6.5 updates are seperate little programs, patches, if one does not work well with your phone or certain app you hard reset and not install it next time.
With WM7 all goes in, updates rom image and you are stuck.
The Gate Keeper said:
i think desktop to phone comparison isn't really correct. with windows phone, MS knows what phones are being made and therefore can keep a proper database of these phones. why? well MS provides keys which get built straight into the memory of the phone (the issue with the HTC HD2 not working with WP7). so you won't just get any joe blogs install windows phone 7 on whatever they feel like it (as you do with wm6.5/android). so therefore, it's very rare that you'll get issues where the phone gets incorrect software not intended for it as MS can manage it properly on their servers, as well as pull anything that were rolled out straight off the phone (e.g. if an app misbehaves but somehow makes it through to marketplace, they can send a command to uninstall the app [same as iOS/Android]).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can compare with desktop, in case of desktop and WM6.5 you could select what to install, also you could always revert back if there were issues. With 6.5 by hard reset and reinstall minus not working app, on PC by rolling back the system.
As said above in WM7 when it is in it is in (that is if I got the info right).
In regards of keys, all you need is typing error. In regards of not working apps there is few that work on some WP7 phones and not others. Mistakes and half finished apps happen. I feel the same will happen with WP7 updates. Probably not now but look 2 years down the line where there will be 100's differant phone models.
Who will test all the updates, not MS and when update is out it is out. If the phone does not boot command to uninstall is not going to help. Especially that we are talking OS update. Apple can not send a command to rollback iphone 3gs from new-est os to one below.
Uh perfect example is apple where first release of iphone 4 os to 3gs did not work to well on all handsets, it was quite slow and they had to make another update. All users that did do it were stuck.
At the end we are talking MS, they do make mistakes. They do a lot of them on normal PC updates where patch does not work as expected.
I think you are mistaken. Every official update that has ever been done on my winmo phones was a full new OS and radio. Complete with hard reset.
nrfitchett4 said:
I think you are mistaken. Every official update that has ever been done on my winmo phones was a full new OS and radio. Complete with hard reset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No that is 6.5, wm7 will be more like PC, no rom updating just small patches integrated in to rom via windows update.
ruscik said:
On WM6.5 updates are seperate little programs, patches, if one does not work well with your phone or certain app you hard reset and not install it next time.
With WM7 all goes in, updates rom image and you are stuck.
You can compare with desktop, in case of desktop and WM6.5 you could select what to install, also you could always revert back if there were issues. With 6.5 by hard reset and reinstall minus not working app, on PC by rolling back the system.
As said above in WM7 when it is in it is in (that is if I got the info right).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ruscik said:
No that is 6.5, wm7 will be more like PC, no rom updating just small patches integrated in to rom via windows update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that was the same on wm6.5 and after a hardreset the update was still there (not working on custom rom's because they ripped the modules )
but MS didn't used it allot , Da_g has a whole thread of it explaining how cooks could use it to update there rom's from there own servers and .cert .
but a lot of cooks won't use this because you cannot protect your rom's any more
and ofcourse not cool for us ORD dud's
Microsoft specify the CPU and chipset to be used by every manufacturer, it is part of the specifications they have to adhere to to be granted a licence to use the WP7 OS.
Therefore the update should never brick the phone, as if it works on one it will work on all. That was kinda the whole point. It's a solution that sits in between the ass-crack tightness of Apple and the Grandma looseness of Android. I call it the Kylie zone.
Jim Coleman said:
Microsoft specify the CPU and chipset to be used by every manufacturer, it is part of the specifications they have to adhere to to be granted a licence to use the WP7 OS.
Therefore the update should never brick the phone, as if it works on one it will work on all. That was kinda the whole point. It's a solution that sits in between the ass-crack tightness of Apple and the Grandma looseness of Android. I call it the Kylie zone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Kylie zone
On that screens are not the same so here is one, then touch panel on screen, charging units or even sound output sockets. There is a lot. With time also chipsets/CPU will change. Like for example snapdragon 1.5ghz that is somewhere near to come out.
Ceesheim ok so it is there but not used. However you could always revert back to stock rom in 6.5 (unless total brick where bootloader not working) by means of download and flash. For WP7 we do not have that and there is no word about it ever being there officially. So if you brick via update you have to send it for repair.
I suspet MS did not use it to much for the same reason I am thinking off. Look at how many differnat devices there are for 6.5 with hardware ranging from identical to completly different.
I guess time will tell how it will all work, general idea is sound it is just that I do not feel comfortable with fact that if a update screws up my device I have to send it for warranty or shell out for repair.
ruscik said:
The Kylie zone
On that screens are not the same so here is one, then touch panel on screen, charging units or even sound output sockets. There is a lot. With time also chipsets/CPU will change. Like for example snapdragon 1.5ghz that is somewhere near to come out.
Ceesheim ok so it is there but not used. However you could always revert back to stock rom in 6.5 (unless total brick where bootloader not working) by means of download and flash. For WP7 we do not have that and there is no word about it ever being there officially. So if you brick via update you have to send it for repair.
I suspet MS did not use it to much for the same reason I am thinking off. Look at how many differnat devices there are for 6.5 with hardware ranging from identical to completly different.
I guess time will tell how it will all work, general idea is sound it is just that I do not feel comfortable with fact that if a update screws up my device I have to send it for warranty or shell out for repair.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we can revert back by flashing a new stock rom ( look at http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=783 all the roms there can be used )
there are a lot of people who did that with a phone that had a demo rom (shop phones ) and after flashing a new rom al was working normal .
I'm sure we'll all be totally fine. The bootloader will stay intact, so even if you screw up the normal update. You could always flash the old rom on top with the bootloader still intact.
The only way your idea would work is if the bootloader itself got messed up in the process.
And in 6.5 you couldn't update your HTC Diamond 2 with the normal Diamond, or HD2 firmware. There are checks at the beginning to make sure this is for this exact phone. And in some cases, the checks even implemented being locked down to the region. We only were able to put whatever ROM we wanted to put on our phones when we totally took off that protection. And even then I believe you wouldn't have been able to put a ROM that wasn't meant for the phone on there.
ceesheim said:
we can revert back by flashing a new stock rom ( look at http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=783 all the roms there can be used )
there are a lot of people who did that with a phone that had a demo rom (shop phones ) and after flashing a new rom al was working normal .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh did not see that. Good then.
You know I know MS has done some DUMB things over the years but I think this has got to be the dumbest!
I don't put my credit card onlline esp for games and other trivalties. What I do is buy points I did it for my PS3, and I decided to do it for the MS store. Well low and behold the games can be bought, the music/video can be bought with points but NOT the apps!!
This is the dumbest thing. I don't want games on my phone, or music and videos with DRM lock on them. What I wasnt is a sirius Satalie radio app that apperently I can't buy without putting my credit card into the system.
So now because of MS's reasoning people who go to all that effort of building these apps and deserve to be paid for them can't be, and because I like so many others refuse to use our credit cards on the net and for a 1 dollar item the developers loose out. And not that i care i'm out 40 bucks (2800 points) I care that thats money MS gets and I will never spend, so they win!
Or you could do as I do, and when you want to buy an app, you complete the transaction on your phone, and have it charged to your phone bill. No hassle, no fuss, no credit card involved.
Unfortunately i doubt my system works that way, though it would be nice.
yea mine doesnt work either
RoboDad said:
Or you could do as I do, and when you want to buy an app, you complete the transaction on your phone, and have it charged to your phone bill. No hassle, no fuss, no credit card involved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
are the price in USD or local currency(own country currency)
I am in the US, and all of the purchases I have made have been in USD. I don't know how it might work (or not work, as it seems) in other countries.
When I buy from MP I just pay using my Credit Card detail I have it stored with Live ID.. when I dont want them to charge my card I just buy it from my phone instead and my Atnt Bill gets credited at the end of the month for all purchases from my phone together...
I like phone billing better because its all together at month end.. I get time.. where as from card I keep seeing every 8-9 USD two three times.. so sometimes I could run into risk of overdrawing and stuff..
But than if I buy from phone.. I would have to re-install it again in case if I ever have hard reset my phone, (I have never done hard reset on my phone yet!! )... so I use MP to buy and install and dont have any problems..
Purple11 said:
But than if I buy from phone.. I would have to re-install it again in case if I ever have hard reset my phone, (I have never done hard reset on my phone yet!! )... so I use MP to buy and install and dont have any problems..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, even if you buy an app through Zune, you may still have to reinstall it from your phone after a hard reset (or replacement).
I recently added more memory to my Focus, which required a hard reset. After completing the reset, I connected to my PC so Zune could reinstall all of my apps, but only about a third of them auto-reinstalled. I don't know if the limit is time-based or number-based, but from what I could see, only the apps that I had purchased/installed within the last 6 weeks were present. The rest all had to be manually reinstalled, which was not fun at all.
This for me is probably the most frustrating part of the WP7 marketplace. We have no tool, either in Zune OR on the phone (it should be on BOTH) to allow use to see a complete history of what we have downloaded/purchased, with options to permanently remove things from the list that we downloaded to check out, but found to be worthless, and another option, for times such as following a hard reset, to select multiple apps to reinstall (or optionally "all"). Instead, I have to keep it all in a spreadsheet on my PC and manually install almost every single app. Lame.
RoboDad said:
Actually, even if you buy an app through Zune, you may still have to reinstall it from your phone after a hard reset (or replacement).
I recently added more memory to my Focus, which required a hard reset. After completing the reset, I connected to my PC so Zune could reinstall all of my apps, but only about a third of them auto-reinstalled. I don't know if the limit is time-based or number-based, but from what I could see, only the apps that I had purchased/installed within the last 6 weeks were present. The rest all had to be manually reinstalled, which was not fun at all.
This for me is probably the most frustrating part of the WP7 marketplace. We have no tool, either in Zune OR on the phone (it should be on BOTH) to allow use to see a complete history of what we have downloaded/purchased, with options to permanently remove things from the list that we downloaded to check out, but found to be worthless, and another option, for times such as following a hard reset, to select multiple apps to reinstall (or optionally "all"). Instead, I have to keep it all in a spreadsheet on my PC and manually install almost every single app. Lame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just save my ATnT bill which lists all my purchase for that month and I also get regular Emails in my LiveID for all the purchases I make at MarketPlace using my Card, so I dont have to maintain a spreadsheet right now..
RoboDad said:
We have no tool, either in Zune OR on the phone (it should be on BOTH) to allow use to see a complete history of what we have downloaded/purchased,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do through your zune settings on your computer, there is a spot to show you what you bought. thought not sure about that if you buy it on your phone.
slight22 said:
Do through your zune settings on your computer, there is a spot to show you what you bought. thought not sure about that if you buy it on your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure if that even shows a complete history of Zune-purchased apps. And, even for the apps it does list, it doesn't provide any tools to reinstall. In fact, Zune doesn't allow any manual reinstall, period. It HAS TO be done on the phone.
[Edit]
I hadn't tried to use that tool in a while, because the last time I did use it, it didn't list everything. It looks like it does now list everything (even apps purchased on the phone), but still lacks the ability to reinstall apps from there. And there is still the glaring lack of a similar tool on the phone itself.
Actually it's weird but believe me apps keep reinstalling for a few days on Zune after a hard reset. It doesn't make any sense but I experienced it with my phone.
That said, a way to backup would be ideal, specially when it comes to game saves.
RoboDad said:
Actually, even if you buy an app through Zune, you may still have to reinstall it from your phone after a hard reset (or replacement).
I recently added more memory to my Focus, which required a hard reset. After completing the reset, I connected to my PC so Zune could reinstall all of my apps, but only about a third of them auto-reinstalled. I don't know if the limit is time-based or number-based, but from what I could see, only the apps that I had purchased/installed within the last 6 weeks were present. The rest all had to be manually reinstalled, which was not fun at all.
This for me is probably the most frustrating part of the WP7 marketplace. We have no tool, either in Zune OR on the phone (it should be on BOTH) to allow use to see a complete history of what we have downloaded/purchased, with options to permanently remove things from the list that we downloaded to check out, but found to be worthless, and another option, for times such as following a hard reset, to select multiple apps to reinstall (or optionally "all"). Instead, I have to keep it all in a spreadsheet on my PC and manually install almost every single app. Lame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
also its cheaper to just buy it via ATT, saves me a few cents of sales tax.
Just setup a credit card specifically for online purchases. You are protected. Just make sure you check your statement each month to make sure there were no fraudulent charges.
cbebop7 said:
also its cheaper to just buy it via ATT, saves me a few cents of sales tax.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it?? I didnt knew that..
I dont know why people have to maintain a list when they get all the info in their billing.. users can just save their emails/atnt bills..
Peew971 said:
Actually it's weird but believe me apps keep reinstalling for a few days on Zune after a hard reset. It doesn't make any sense but I experienced it with my phone.
That said, a way to backup would be ideal, specially when it comes to game saves.
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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the Zune created backups save apps and game saves. The backup is surprisingly thorough. There is a program on XDA here now that will trick Zune into creating a backup at any time.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
That's true, but there is no selective restore feature. It's either all or nothing. Plus, if you have a Focus, and add more memory, the backup will not be recognized as valid for your phone any more.
munkeyphyst said:
the Zune created backups save apps and game saves. The backup is surprisingly thorough. There is a program on XDA here now that will trick Zune into creating a backup at any time.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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Really? Are you saying I can restore my game saves? How do I do that?
Peew971 said:
Really? Are you saying I can restore my game saves? How do I do that?
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You can't backup specific data with that tool. What it does - basically spoken - is force Zune into the update mode, so it runs a backup of your device. After the backup is finished, the update process is aborted. When you now want to restore the backup, you just do a simple rollback from within Zune.
I need to try this, cheers. Xbox Live is getting cloud saving, would be great if WP7 games were included in that.
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Back in 2003, I came across a feature quietly tucked away in a service pack update I got for Win XP. They called it Microsoft Groove. It was a means of storing info online in case it was too big to send,you could upload pretty much anything(contacts,folders,etc.) and access the info remotely from any internet enabled computer in the world. Thanks but no thanks, I thought. My info, and that of others, is my responsibility to administrate.
Cut to 2012, now the contacts I had synchronised with Outlook back then,were associated with my Windows live account, which saved them online "as a backup". I cant sync contacts directly with my PC, now the info goes straight to the cloud platform. The cloud storage is the common meeting point for my devices, for years you could not take files directly from your 'high-tech' WP7 device and put them in your PC, you were ushered into the cloud computing framework and convinced that the whole thing was your idea all along. Real control over personal information is synonimous with older devices, the more advanced and current your device is,the less control you get over info. Sounds like a lame trade-off to me.
Vukile said:
Back in 2003, I came across a feature quietly tucked away in a service pack update I got for Win XP. They called it Microsoft Groove. It was a means of storing info online in case it was too big to send,you could upload pretty much anything(contacts,folders,etc.) and access the info remotely from any internet enabled computer in the world. Thanks but no thanks, I thought. My info, and that of others, is my responsibility to administrate.
Cut to 2012, now the contacts I had synchronised with Outlook back then,were associated with my Windows live account, which saved them online "as a backup". I cant sync contacts directly with my PC, now the info goes straight to the cloud platform. The cloud storage is the common meeting point for my devices, for years you could not take files directly from your 'high-tech' WP7 device and put them in your PC, you were ushered into the cloud computing framework and convinced that the whole thing was your idea all along. Real control over personal information is synonimous with older devices, the more advanced and current your device is,the less control you get over info. Sounds like a lame trade-off to me.
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Many years ago I came across a little used feature called email, all sounded a bit "fantastical" to me at the time, I mean, we had pens, we had paper, letter boxes in every home, if we all sat around typing on monochrome screens our eyes would bleed, we'd get radiation burns and we'd all forget how to write and besides, it hadn't been THAT long since telegrams were sent on mass, and interestingly they would still have been a bigger user base for that too compared to "email"
needless to say we didn't all go blind or forget how to write (although that at least is partially debatable!) and now we send these fandangled electronic letters everywhere instead, so much so in fact, our postal service is just about broke.
I do hear what you are saying, but this IS the world we live in, we need to move with it an to be perfectly honest, the cloud has saved my bacon more than once, in situations that a direct sync with a computer would have been as useful as a chocolate teapot.
im curious
what is it that you don't like about cloud? is there any actual reason other than the "idea" of dumping your stuff on a third party service that can arguably can look after your data in a much more secure location than a home computer
I happen to like having full control of what goes in and out of my device. I dont live too far from the beach,but I rarely go. The idea of not having that option anymore would drive me over the edge, its as logical as having a pool at your house. My rant was spurred on by an article that suggested that our devices would merely be shells. Remember when gmail crashed a while back, or RIM, Facebook,Twitter,etc.? Bothered the hell out of me. If Im likely to fall prey to that again,I should at least be able to keep operating independently of those vices, otherwise my phone will turn into an overpriced flashlight.
Vukile said:
I happen to like having full control of what goes in and out of my device. I dont live too far from the beach,but I rarely go. The idea of not having that option anymore would drive me over the edge, its as logical as having a pool at your house. My rant was spurred on by an article that suggested that our devices would merely be shells. Remember when gmail crashed a while back, or RIM, Facebook,Twitter,etc.? Bothered the hell out of me. If Im likely to fall prey to that again,I should at least be able to keep operating independently of those vices, otherwise my phone will turn into an overpriced flashlight.
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and yet, the flip side to that coin is that, yes you could sync directly to your computer to stay in "control" but should the server go down you still wont get your email in either case. If my server goes down my device keeps the contacts on it, it keeps the emails going back as far as I tell it too, I do not need to have the a connection to the server other than to get new data, which would screw both methods if that were to happen.
The other thing is that whilst direct syncing has benefits to some degree although personally I don't notice the difference any more as I cant even remember the last time I fired up outlook... anyhow, yes you can sync, but lets say you were on the beach and your phone goes tits up, I bet I can reset and be synced before you got off the beach unless the server is down in which case yes you could sync all your old data but your just as stuck for anything new as I would be, of course my other email account would be able to sync its contacts, so that would have to go down too, or perhaps the whole network stops...and wifi,,,
I do see what your saying, I used to think the same until I actually stood back and looked at it objectively, I asked myself some honest questions and added a second layer of redundancy by having my live and gmail accounts sync contacts and calendar info periodically. There really is only so much you can do and the benefits of cloud storage for me far out weigh the downsides.
Sorry my friend, but one way or another, direct syncing like the good old days is a relic of a time that's soon to be forgotten
I get you,dazza,really. My point is, though, that if theres a loss or unavailability of data, I want to be 100% responsible. I dread the day when I have to periodically look at a notification that says "Our technicians are working on it". This crap has gone down with every major cloud computing service or derivative since the innovation was thrust upon the masses. I just want my phone back,man. Screw the innovations, let me take my under-utilised hardware and be on my way.
Vukile said:
I get you,dazza,really. My point is, though, that if theres a loss or unavailability of data, I want to be 100% responsible. I dread the day when I have to periodically look at a notification that says "Our technicians are working on it". This crap has gone down with every major cloud computing service or derivative since the innovation was thrust upon the masses. I just want my phone back,man. Screw the innovations, let me take my under-utilised hardware and be on my way.
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rip pimp c
I completely understand, but the reality is that is unlikely to come back, although I do see a future where the location of cloud can be changed, think along the lines of corporate domains with AD setup, companies may be ok with you taking work home an accessing via a phone but only on their terms, on their servers, if that were possible I could see a windows server extension to allow that, an thus potentially have it on a home server too... Maybe
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Vukile said:
I get you,dazza,really. My point is, though, that if theres a loss or unavailability of data, I want to be 100% responsible. I dread the day when I have to periodically look at a notification that says "Our technicians are working on it". This crap has gone down with every major cloud computing service or derivative since the innovation was thrust upon the masses. I just want my phone back,man. Screw the innovations, let me take my under-utilised hardware and be on my way.
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I used to feel the same way about print and electronic media. Think about it.
What I don't like is everything being dumbed down and the options being removed (Or made astronomically expensive) that used to exist before.
Microsoft has the technology (And the phone even supports it for corporates).
The fact is in terms of real usefulness palm os offline had far more innovative applications. (And didn't try to make everything moron proof).
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gentry33 said:
I used to feel the same way about print and electronic media. Think about it.
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Realistically the consumer should get outlook connectivity / lync / sharepoint / office 365 in a hosted manner not the dumbed down experience that we do get.
(Even the old activesync system was preferable in a lot of ways).
And yet dumbed down is exactly what people want, you are not not the target user
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
dazza9075 said:
And yet dumbed down is exactly what people want, you are not not the target user
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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Schaps had the gameplan years ago, but we were too busy sleeping. Imma donate the hell out of itParticipate.
I fell for this this "We're not updating xxxxxxx device" crap afew times. I had an iMate Jam (largest selling PDA of its time) and I let it go because it was never gonna get a WM5 update. Nowadays, I see cats doing backflips and handstands with their WM6.5 iMate Jams like its the most natural thing in the world. When it comes to devices, N.E.R.D
You can still have a modern "PDA" and live completely off the "cloud", your data haphazardly fragmented across devices, if you really feel the need to live in the past. Ironically though, Microsoft is no longer the company that will provide you the platform with which to do so.
I wonder how many former HTC Leo owners wish they never listened to that. Btw, since starting this thread, I managed to achieve my goal. A little Chinese ingenuity here,a little Vietnamese there, a dollop of Russian app and add some Italian and Egyptian flair.... Tasty.
history is cyclical, that's how humanity progresses, we do learn mistakes from the past, but will find news ways to make it again. In XX years time, we might end up going back to individual storage again.