Back in 2003, I came across a feature quietly tucked away in a service pack update I got for Win XP. They called it Microsoft Groove. It was a means of storing info online in case it was too big to send,you could upload pretty much anything(contacts,folders,etc.) and access the info remotely from any internet enabled computer in the world. Thanks but no thanks, I thought. My info, and that of others, is my responsibility to administrate.
Cut to 2012, now the contacts I had synchronised with Outlook back then,were associated with my Windows live account, which saved them online "as a backup". I cant sync contacts directly with my PC, now the info goes straight to the cloud platform. The cloud storage is the common meeting point for my devices, for years you could not take files directly from your 'high-tech' WP7 device and put them in your PC, you were ushered into the cloud computing framework and convinced that the whole thing was your idea all along. Real control over personal information is synonimous with older devices, the more advanced and current your device is,the less control you get over info. Sounds like a lame trade-off to me.
Vukile said:
Back in 2003, I came across a feature quietly tucked away in a service pack update I got for Win XP. They called it Microsoft Groove. It was a means of storing info online in case it was too big to send,you could upload pretty much anything(contacts,folders,etc.) and access the info remotely from any internet enabled computer in the world. Thanks but no thanks, I thought. My info, and that of others, is my responsibility to administrate.
Cut to 2012, now the contacts I had synchronised with Outlook back then,were associated with my Windows live account, which saved them online "as a backup". I cant sync contacts directly with my PC, now the info goes straight to the cloud platform. The cloud storage is the common meeting point for my devices, for years you could not take files directly from your 'high-tech' WP7 device and put them in your PC, you were ushered into the cloud computing framework and convinced that the whole thing was your idea all along. Real control over personal information is synonimous with older devices, the more advanced and current your device is,the less control you get over info. Sounds like a lame trade-off to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many years ago I came across a little used feature called email, all sounded a bit "fantastical" to me at the time, I mean, we had pens, we had paper, letter boxes in every home, if we all sat around typing on monochrome screens our eyes would bleed, we'd get radiation burns and we'd all forget how to write and besides, it hadn't been THAT long since telegrams were sent on mass, and interestingly they would still have been a bigger user base for that too compared to "email"
needless to say we didn't all go blind or forget how to write (although that at least is partially debatable!) and now we send these fandangled electronic letters everywhere instead, so much so in fact, our postal service is just about broke.
I do hear what you are saying, but this IS the world we live in, we need to move with it an to be perfectly honest, the cloud has saved my bacon more than once, in situations that a direct sync with a computer would have been as useful as a chocolate teapot.
im curious
what is it that you don't like about cloud? is there any actual reason other than the "idea" of dumping your stuff on a third party service that can arguably can look after your data in a much more secure location than a home computer
I happen to like having full control of what goes in and out of my device. I dont live too far from the beach,but I rarely go. The idea of not having that option anymore would drive me over the edge, its as logical as having a pool at your house. My rant was spurred on by an article that suggested that our devices would merely be shells. Remember when gmail crashed a while back, or RIM, Facebook,Twitter,etc.? Bothered the hell out of me. If Im likely to fall prey to that again,I should at least be able to keep operating independently of those vices, otherwise my phone will turn into an overpriced flashlight.
Vukile said:
I happen to like having full control of what goes in and out of my device. I dont live too far from the beach,but I rarely go. The idea of not having that option anymore would drive me over the edge, its as logical as having a pool at your house. My rant was spurred on by an article that suggested that our devices would merely be shells. Remember when gmail crashed a while back, or RIM, Facebook,Twitter,etc.? Bothered the hell out of me. If Im likely to fall prey to that again,I should at least be able to keep operating independently of those vices, otherwise my phone will turn into an overpriced flashlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and yet, the flip side to that coin is that, yes you could sync directly to your computer to stay in "control" but should the server go down you still wont get your email in either case. If my server goes down my device keeps the contacts on it, it keeps the emails going back as far as I tell it too, I do not need to have the a connection to the server other than to get new data, which would screw both methods if that were to happen.
The other thing is that whilst direct syncing has benefits to some degree although personally I don't notice the difference any more as I cant even remember the last time I fired up outlook... anyhow, yes you can sync, but lets say you were on the beach and your phone goes tits up, I bet I can reset and be synced before you got off the beach unless the server is down in which case yes you could sync all your old data but your just as stuck for anything new as I would be, of course my other email account would be able to sync its contacts, so that would have to go down too, or perhaps the whole network stops...and wifi,,,
I do see what your saying, I used to think the same until I actually stood back and looked at it objectively, I asked myself some honest questions and added a second layer of redundancy by having my live and gmail accounts sync contacts and calendar info periodically. There really is only so much you can do and the benefits of cloud storage for me far out weigh the downsides.
Sorry my friend, but one way or another, direct syncing like the good old days is a relic of a time that's soon to be forgotten
I get you,dazza,really. My point is, though, that if theres a loss or unavailability of data, I want to be 100% responsible. I dread the day when I have to periodically look at a notification that says "Our technicians are working on it". This crap has gone down with every major cloud computing service or derivative since the innovation was thrust upon the masses. I just want my phone back,man. Screw the innovations, let me take my under-utilised hardware and be on my way.
Vukile said:
I get you,dazza,really. My point is, though, that if theres a loss or unavailability of data, I want to be 100% responsible. I dread the day when I have to periodically look at a notification that says "Our technicians are working on it". This crap has gone down with every major cloud computing service or derivative since the innovation was thrust upon the masses. I just want my phone back,man. Screw the innovations, let me take my under-utilised hardware and be on my way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rip pimp c
I completely understand, but the reality is that is unlikely to come back, although I do see a future where the location of cloud can be changed, think along the lines of corporate domains with AD setup, companies may be ok with you taking work home an accessing via a phone but only on their terms, on their servers, if that were possible I could see a windows server extension to allow that, an thus potentially have it on a home server too... Maybe
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Vukile said:
I get you,dazza,really. My point is, though, that if theres a loss or unavailability of data, I want to be 100% responsible. I dread the day when I have to periodically look at a notification that says "Our technicians are working on it". This crap has gone down with every major cloud computing service or derivative since the innovation was thrust upon the masses. I just want my phone back,man. Screw the innovations, let me take my under-utilised hardware and be on my way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used to feel the same way about print and electronic media. Think about it.
What I don't like is everything being dumbed down and the options being removed (Or made astronomically expensive) that used to exist before.
Microsoft has the technology (And the phone even supports it for corporates).
The fact is in terms of real usefulness palm os offline had far more innovative applications. (And didn't try to make everything moron proof).
---------- Post added at 02:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 AM ----------
gentry33 said:
I used to feel the same way about print and electronic media. Think about it.
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Click to collapse
Realistically the consumer should get outlook connectivity / lync / sharepoint / office 365 in a hosted manner not the dumbed down experience that we do get.
(Even the old activesync system was preferable in a lot of ways).
And yet dumbed down is exactly what people want, you are not not the target user
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
dazza9075 said:
And yet dumbed down is exactly what people want, you are not not the target user
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Schaps had the gameplan years ago, but we were too busy sleeping. Imma donate the hell out of itParticipate.
I fell for this this "We're not updating xxxxxxx device" crap afew times. I had an iMate Jam (largest selling PDA of its time) and I let it go because it was never gonna get a WM5 update. Nowadays, I see cats doing backflips and handstands with their WM6.5 iMate Jams like its the most natural thing in the world. When it comes to devices, N.E.R.D
You can still have a modern "PDA" and live completely off the "cloud", your data haphazardly fragmented across devices, if you really feel the need to live in the past. Ironically though, Microsoft is no longer the company that will provide you the platform with which to do so.
I wonder how many former HTC Leo owners wish they never listened to that. Btw, since starting this thread, I managed to achieve my goal. A little Chinese ingenuity here,a little Vietnamese there, a dollop of Russian app and add some Italian and Egyptian flair.... Tasty.
history is cyclical, that's how humanity progresses, we do learn mistakes from the past, but will find news ways to make it again. In XX years time, we might end up going back to individual storage again.
Related
Hi
Just discovered this excellent forum.
What a difference 4 years makes, have gone from a 2006 Sony Erickson W810 walkman phone to this and its just a little bit different shall we say.
I'm still playing with it. trying to get it set up etc. Have tried to bluetooth across my phone contacts from the Sony (before the number transfer takes place on 6 April) and message comes up saying that the Desire is awaiting 'acceptance of the transfer). Symbols have appeared on the top of the Desire.
Where do i go to accept the contact list transfer?
Any other 'top tips' woulod be greatly appreciated.
Can you also watch 'live' TV i.e. Sky sports through the Sky player.
I read on UK hot deals forum how to speed up the 3G, this seems to be working.
Other probably stupid questions:
On a PC you would set up a firewall, virus protection for the internet etc. Do you not have to do this when accessing the net via a phone? What happens with span, hackers etc if you accidentially access 'dodgy sites' shall we say.
Have to say loading apps looks a little complicated for the novice, but I'm sure I'll get used to it.
I think I can address a couple of issues, just not the BT issue.
Live TV?
Well, I don't think there's an app for live TV (at least here in the UK). However a site which broadcasts live TV (probably requiring Flash) may work. Though Flash is known not to work great yet so don't get your hopes up. Would love to be wrong on this point though. I saw a friend in Sweden watch live TV on his iPhone with a station specific app, over wifi. Was kinda cool!
No idea what you're talking about with speeding up 3G. Maybe you can share...
Virus/firewall protection?
Ah yes, that old nut. I'm guessing that they break down into 2 groups, one's that scan constantly and one's that scan occasionally. The 1st offers highest protection but requires highest resources and thus few people will use it on mobile devices. The 2nd is more possible and is available.
But then you have the issue of risk. Many argue, in short, there's not enough risk (even though malicious software does exist). There's not enough devices to make it worthwhile (the same arguements of why Macs don't have so many viruses) and even if there are millions of devices running the same software, the proportion of people that have stuff that is worth stealing puts the value even lower.
I'm sure when mobile devices are more integrated, more powerful (though running Google Earth on my desktop a few years back was hard enough, so to see it on my Desire...!) and when they hold/access more valuable data (i.e. more mobile banking and passwords on mobile devices), then the risk will no doubt also increase.
TV Catchup is the place for live tv. like its been said not sure of with the flash as my desire is on charge and i havent tried it yet.
if your old phone can sync contacts to outlook then do that and save the contacts as a csv file.
then go to google mail and import the .csv file
Thats the theory that worked for me. Your best bet is to google search the rest
Hi
I'm expecting delivery of T-Mobile HTC Desire soon.
I have chosen this phone over HTC HD2 on a 7 day trial basis.
I know of the issue concerning bluetooth voice dialing on android phones and I am prepared to accept that there might or might not be a solution eventually.
I am a user of Thunderbird and use a program called Birdiesync for use with Windows Mobile phones. It just works 100%.
It seems to sync Thunderbird calendar and email will be fine on Desire, but I'm not so sure about thunderbird and contacts. For me most of my 500 contacts have postal addresses which are important to me, whereas only a small % have email addresses. It seems Thunderbird and Google contacts are handled differently and the few Thunderbird addons that exist for this issue are not 100%. Certainly when it comes to maintaining the structure of postal addresses.
Lastly I use a piece of software called SKScheMa 1.2.17 on Windows Mobile. This allows me to create a script that turns on bluetooth when phone is on charge and turns it off when phone taken off charge. I like this because when I get out of my car and go to a customers front door I don't want the phone still connected to the car bluetooth system. this software handles this for me. QUESTION: Does juicedefender handle this or can anyone else suggest another app.
It seems I am expected to give up quite a lot of functionability to move over to the Android platform, but I do believe it is/will be the OS of choice in the future.
Feedback and help would be most gratefuly received.
You almost always lose functionality when you move from Winmo, but you gain a nice interface and more fun apps. Eventually android will cover the short fall, it just depends how long you can wait.
The issue with the Desire v HD2 is not just software though. As nice as the AMOLED on the Desire is, the size of the HD2 is compelling. There really is no contest for picture and movie viewing. Some like the saturation level on AMOLED screens, but its much less natural than the LCD on the HD2, its just over saturated. Its not such a big deal on a phone i guess, but some pictures and videos do look quite wrong. I put both through a calibration using the gear i had for my Plasma and i can tell you the blacks on the AMOLED are great, but the colours are WAY WAY off. The HD2 is much better despite only being 65k colours.
Yeah
I'm not too sure if Android is for me to be honest.
I am fed up with poor battery life on every single Winmo phone I have ever owned. I use about 1500mins of tak per month. I really do need MS Voice Command, couldn't care less about playing mp3's watching vids etc. I like to be able to surf net and send and recieve emails. Because of my usage i will always be offered top spec phone for free. I just fancied a change, but even prior to delivery I may have to accept the fact that this latest phone is gonna have to be yet another HTC winmo phone that comes with an old platform, poor battery life etc. I may just need to wait another 18 months of contract before moving over to Android. I'm not too sure what winmo 7 will bring or lack or even if it will be available from here for the HD2
Although I am yet to get the Desire in my hands, it seems everything about the OS is a workaround to get the most basic of features working in a fashion that I am used to. The ability to sync contacts/email and calendar should just work. I just don't get it! Perhaps thunderbird is the problem, but I am not prepared to use Outlook. I use portable thunderbird on my main drive, and this allows you to copy the whole thin over onto a USB stick and use anywhere if required. hats just not possible with Outlook.
The HD2 is a great phone if you want compatibility with Office apps and the like. The screen is awesome and (if you use a custom ROM) bettery life is more than acceptable (2 days with moderate use).
BUT the Desire is a better all round phone out the box. I had to cook my own ROM to get my HD2 how I wanted it. I've not touched a thing on the Desire since I got it.
Perhaps you can help me then.
I really would love to be able to have bluetooth on when unit is on charge and off when not. Does anyone know of an app that does it. Does Juicedefender?
Whilst I may not have to meddle with the Desire it just might be beacuse nothing I want it to do for me is actually available.
1. No bluetooth handsfree voice dialing
2. No apparant flawless syncing between Thunderbird and Android platform
3. No bluetooth on when on charge and off when disconnected.
Whilst I fully understand my requirements may not be on the forefront of many mainstream users, they are hardly so obscure to be not available.
I just don't get it. I know the Android platform is the future, but perhaps for me I need to wait.
I'll give it the 7 days and see if the experience is so great that I'm prepared to give up the proper functionability I have come to expect from a phone.
I had the same dilema... HD2 or Desire..
I've got the Desire but it's going back to orange today... Don't get me wrong it's a good phone but the main things I use my phone for just don't work as well as in my winmo diamond... so, i'm getting the HD2 - I stream a lot of video/mp3s with myplayer, skyfire (tvactchup) and also use fpsece a lot on my diamond but the experience i've had with video streaming on the desire is'nt great.. I know they'll get it right when Full Flash is released later in the year (10.1? is it?) but I'm a bit impatient and I can't wait till then.
I've also tried Xdandroid on my diamond and although it's not perfect I should be able to run Android on my winmo device anyway - so that's made my mind up.
I've had my HD2 for about 6 weeks now, and I'm fed up with it. I have loads of issues with it, but the big ones are:
- Constantly crashes (dialer app mainly - I've tried various ROMS with no luck)
- On screen keyboard is useless
- Internet links impossible to hit cleanly every time, even when zoomed in.
- Smooth scrolling of menus/web pages is impossible
- Lack of a proper "App Store"
- No upgrade path to Win Phone 7
- Confused, counter intuitive UI layout (Window's fault)
- Phone is so large its difficult to hold/operate with one hand.
My wife took delivery of her Desire yesterday, and I'm jealous, although it has reminded me that the HD2 has a lovely *big* screen in comparison.
Desire first impressions:
- On screen keyboard is a delight to use
- Internet links are easy to click
- Nice smooth menu action
- Well thought out, intuitive UI
- Sits nicely in the palm, easy to use one handed
In terms of battery life no smart phone is especially good. I dont think you really lose or gain anything by switching to another OS if the hardware spec is basically the same.
Get both! haha
Sent from my HTC Desire using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalkp
Lyrrad said:
Perhaps you can help me then.
I really would love to be able to have bluetooth on when unit is on charge and off when not. Does anyone know of an app that does it. Does Juicedefender?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure that Locale does this on the market, and I believe there are plenty of others too but I can't remember off the top of my head.
I would never go back to WinMo even if someone gave me the latest handset.
ritdaw said:
I'm pretty sure that Locale does this on the market, and I believe there are plenty of others too but I can't remember off the top of my head.
I would never go back to WinMo even if someone gave me the latest handset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay I have also been told that Tasker does it too.
Now I need to be convinced about syncing with Thunderbird properly. Calendar seems fine, and email is easy for me. It's just how contacts are handled. I use postal addresses a lot and I pride myself on the fact that I have over 600 records all properly set out below.
Address
City
State
Postal Code
Home Tel
Mobile Tel
Work Tel
Very few of them have an email address.
Android/Google seems to require an email address so all of my contacts now seem to require a bogus email. That's ok, but Google also seem to want to handle the address more a a note than anything else, and it does not seem to look nice on my PC. How it looks on my phone will be the make or breaking point for me.
I personally like the desire over the HD2, the one thing that annyoed me about the HD2 was the screen problems and having to keep on sending it back to HTC until you finally got one that worked.
Apart from that the wm6.5 and the phone itself was spot on, the HTC Desire on the other hand has not been rooted yet but is damn fast, if not faster than the bulky WM. The only down side to the desire for me are the keys at the bottom of the device.
Lyrrad said:
Android/Google seems to require an email address so all of my contacts now seem to require a bogus email. That's ok, but Google also seem to want to handle the address more a a note than anything else, and it does not seem to look nice on my PC. How it looks on my phone will be the make or breaking point for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A large number of my contacts just have phone numbers and no email addresses. I tried creating a new contact with just a name and it work. Am I miss-understanding what you are trying to do?
Also setting profiles lite/pro probably handles the disabling and enabling of bluetooth.
ritdaw said:
A large number of my contacts just have phone numbers and no email addresses. I tried creating a new contact with just a name and it work. Am I miss-understanding what you are trying to do?
Also setting profiles lite/pro probably handles the disabling and enabling of bluetooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not too sure if this is a Thunderbird issue. I use thunderbird over Outlook because you can instaal Portable Thunderbird onto your hard drive rather than a USB drive. Portable thunderbird by it's very nature does not install anything into your registery. Therefore it is possible to copy it in it in full at any given time on to a USB stick and then you are walking around with all of your details to be used plugged into any PC. I suppose if I were to really sit down and think about this option it may well be redundant if I am prepared to use Google. However my way of thinking at the moment is to use google as nothing more than a server between my Android phone and my email client.
All I know is that the Thunderbird addons do not seem to be flawless.
I need to get the phone and experiment.
I really would like it to work.
No Voice Command or anything that offere bluetooth handsfree voice dialling was all I thought I was giving up by moving to Android. However that may not be the case.
This is not troll baiting or OS Slamming...
Looking for knowledgeable and constructive feedback regarding device security. I'm thinking in terms of an Executive or VP or Network Admin or such loosing the device. a piece of software
1) to do more to control access than a squiggly line
2) to allow for remote GPS tracking and/or device data wiping
3) that is stealthy and/or hard to remove.
I know there are a few "security services" out there but that leads me into "how do i know whose who and who can be trusted in the android segment". I place a great deal of trust in the developer of my ROM. That he/she/they are benevolent and not including by intent or negligence loggers or other malware. then i have a companies like Wave and Norton and Good all angling to get installed on my device. i don't know Wave nor Good and I have no luv for Norton.
The EVO allows for RDC and VNC sessions. It allows for VPN access and has the pwd's to my personal and work email. meebo has me signed into all my chat networks. As a long time Windows person I guess it's just a lil disconcerting when i stop and think on it. this device can easily be configured to hold everything needed to access a secured network. Perhaps this is a reflection on my lack of understanding the system in depth. perhaps i'm not sure how well the opensource community will communicate "problem" apps and developers.
Also, and kinda sorta related. Applications in the marketplace. sometimes you get an application and the types of security access it is asking for seems a bit "off". occasionally in the comments the developer may comment that "i need to access X in order to provide Z". It usually makes sense (whether true or not i cannot say), but is there any nice cross-reference of what types of actions require what access level. or why so many apps need to know the phone state and identity or general location or full network access and what exactly that means to me as the end user. this second paragraph is proving difficult to put to paper..i may come back and edit for clarity.
and lastly, i guess is a question on how to protect from apps like this...
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/060210-android-rootkit-is-just-a.html?page=1
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/commercial-spying-app-for-android-devices-released/4900
If the app seems fishy don't download it you can allways get lookout from the market it will pull your phone up on the gps and tell you exactly where it is I've tested you can also make it chirp real loud as for them accessing your phone put the pattern lock on in stead most thiefs are not hackers so they probably won't be able to access your phone even if you hard reset you still have to draw the pattern I mean unless they full root the phone and wipe it in petty sure you will be ok hope that helped
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Lookout kinda falls into the same category at Good or Wave. (at least to me thus far). All appear to be fine and yet somehow free products. I'm looking for a corporate solution, not end user solution. a free solution would be swell, so long as trust can be established.
i am looking at this from a corporate IT security perspective. not a young person, a enthusiast nor regular end user. heck, if I could get all of my users to actually know what is meant by "if the app seems fishy don't use it", most of my job would be completed. but to be honest, i'm still trying to get a grasp on that myself in the android world, hence the question about access levels in last paragraph of original post.
the zigzag is nifty and should protect from casual access. Froyo will provide an interface that a secured Exchange server would prefer to have. that will help.
( BTW ... if anyone knows how to make the red line not appear when you mess up the pattern lock...you'd be my personal hero for the day)
its not thieves that I'm worried about...it's my own end users that have to be protected from themselves. if a device was left in a bar or cab and did end up in the wrong hands....data could be sold, deals could be lost, people could be embarrassed, with the type of data that 'can very easily' exist on these devices...network security itself can be compromised. and sadly, i must assume that a good many end users will disable security if they are able to. for the same reason they ***** at automatic screenlocks on their desktop/laptop computers.
would you rather your IT team "hope/pray/expect the device will be picked up by some incompetent/benign/lawabiding citizen" or the opposite?
i choose to prepare for the worst...hope for the best. not the other way around. hence, my questions.
Isn't remote wipe being built into froyo somehow? Thought I read that somewhere.
I have my exchange email set up on my device and it requires me to use a passcode. I cannot disable it.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
As for wiping data remotely wave secure will do that it might be close to what you need or something for the time being hopefully this will help
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
This is kinda sorta what I'm lookn for.
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2010/06/28/understanding-the-android-market-security-system/
Firstly let me say these are just some of the opinions of staff I've spoken too at 3 O2 shops in my area.
Basically, my upgrade is due next week and I've been looking forward to the new WP7 and the HD7 although I now know the transition will be painful. I wanted to have a play before hand so popped into their shops. I went to 3 because the first 2 hadn't had any hand sets delivered - Only some posters and plastic handsets. They also had next to no knowledge of the phones and pretty much shrugged their shoulders about it.
The third shop had a demo only......which stopped working altogether yesterday. They quoted some dead pixels and then it just gave up. No other explanation given
None of the shops know when they will actually receive any stock.
They all were suggesting I go for the new Blackberry (won't touch these) or an Android phone. Only one lady suggested a iPhone (again not going there).
One guy suggested that this may be a complete flop and we had an interesting conversation as to why he thought so, some of his comments I thought were total gash but he had a point on others. He mentioned that some of the apps on the market place were crashing the device (has anyone any knowledge of this?), or slow (already seeing comments about this on here). To be fair, he was the only one who knew any details about the phone. He suggested that the real release will be after the first update (so Jan), and that at the moment this release was considered to be a real world testing phase.
So none of this is looking promising for the moment. I'm desperate for a new phone - my X1i is pretty long in the tooth now. I'm already installing SBS with Exchange on one of my machines so I don't have to keep my contact and calender items on Live (testing of using the connector is showing loss of data, categories and irregularities which I can't explain or make no sense).
Just thought I'd pass this on.
So basically they have no win phomes and want to sell you something else to make some commission. Why does anyone listen to these salespeople?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
So basically they have no win phomes and want to sell you something else to make some commission. Why does anyone listen to these salespeople?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically - yes. I get the impression that they don't know anything about the phone or OS in the first place to push a sale even if they had the stock.
To be fair, I'll be getting mine via O2 retentions anyway.
Unless the CLR is broken or the Silverlight base library is buggy as hell in the PInvoke parts that interact with the low level system, I really doubt that the apps will crash the phone.
Tom Servo said:
Unless the CLR is broken or the Silverlight base library is buggy as hell in the PInvoke parts that interact with the low level system, I really doubt that the apps will crash the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there have been
some data programs that have a lot of data from rss feeds aren't nearly as smooth as microsoft software (eg email sms and the like)
I don't think its an issue that a quick ota (january) will fix however so in that I agree with the CS rep.
The OS is new and so a few bugs are to be expected. I think once they release the update in Jan it will be much better.
I don't think that they can think it will be a flop as it hasn't even been released in the US and thats where M$ will probably do most of its advertising.
domineus said:
there have been
some data programs that have a lot of data from rss feeds aren't nearly as smooth as microsoft software (eg email sms and the like)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That means nothing without the source code available. The applications could for instance do not make use of threading to mitigate these issues, maybe overload various controls with data instead of using on-demand loading (and unloading), etc blah blah.
My experience with o2 was a bit better. Well the other half went into one of the Guildford stores to pick up two phones for us before she went into work. There were already some people buying some and she overheard one of the staff members say after she brought those they’d have four left, but then the guy she was dealing with said it was the last one, obviously not wanting to shift two of them on PAYG. So I made my own way into Aldershot to pick one up, and the staff in there seemed pretty enthusiastic about the HD7 and actually knew a bit about them. Was somewhat impressed. I'd be more impressed if they offered me a cradle instead of a case though.
As for the crashing applications, as already said they don't crash the phone, it just falls back to the Start screen. The one that got a bit of attention was the Xbox Live Extras application (which lets you send messages, customise your avatar etc) doesn't seem to be working on HTC phones, it was pulled off the Marketplace yesterday and a fix is going through certification now and should be up in a few days.
Some 3rd party applications aren't as smooth as the Microsoft stuff, you can tell the difference between them but they aren't what I would call slow. Load times weren't as bad as I was expecting for the games either.
I'm yet to find a member of staff in any phone shop that heard of windows phone 7
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Just got one. Installed all free apps on market place just to test. Did not yet encounter any problems except one, how do you activesync it to outlook?!?!?!?!?!
I on the other hand had a good experience from O2 and the HD7 with Win Phone 7.
The Basingstoke store had a working demo and the sales guy was very enthuastic about the phone and demo'd it and let me play with the phone for about 15 minutes. The experience was very good of WP7 and now really keen to have it....either on my HD2 or to get a HD7.
I expect it not to be perfect, but from other articles and the sales guy the WP7 OS will get updates regulary which presumably will fix bugs, just like a home OS.
So...HD2 and wait.....or sell HD2 and get HD7???
domineus said:
there have been
some data programs that have a lot of data from rss feeds aren't nearly as smooth as microsoft software (eg email sms and the like)
I don't think its an issue that a quick ota (january) will fix however so in that I agree with the CS rep.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is very likely down to a badly written app and has nothing to do with Microsoft (other than the fact they allowed a sub-par app onto the marketplace).
lee-bowman said:
So...HD2 and wait.....or sell HD2 and get HD7???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless you really want a HD7 I would stick it out and see if you can get the 16GB Omnia 7 instead. The screen is that much better even if it is slightly smaller, as is the camera. The HD7 feels like a cheap knockoff in comparison. The only reason I got the HD7 was 8GB on the Samsung, but will definitely swap it out if it turns out I can get my hands on the 16GB version.
ruscik said:
Just got one. Installed all free apps on market place just to test. Did not yet encounter any problems except one, how do you activesync it to outlook?!?!?!?!?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't. Exchange ActiveSync only.
Mind you even Hotmail can almost replicate the feature set of Exchange 2003 nowadays, all it's lacking is Tasks (not supported on WP7) and the fancy meeting arangement stuff.
I would like to also share my story I went to my local town and the only shop to have had any wp7 handsets was o2 but had sold out only 15 mins after opening, Orange said demand was so high only big stores had any others said due sometime thus month. I want back to o2 store and they phoned around and reserved one in another store got it no problem but was last one they had. I think everyone underestimated the os and didn't have the stock to cover demand so I'm not worried about popularity. The sales ppl will say anything to sell what they have in stock. Apps rock esp the games i recomed harvest and twin blades i have been playing for hours, and that's bearing in mind i have also just bought f1 2010 for my Xbox. Don't get put off phone around you will be glad you did
daSmirnov said:
It doesn't. Exchange ActiveSync only.
Mind you even Hotmail can almost replicate the feature set of Exchange 2003 nowadays, all it's lacking is Tasks (not supported on WP7) and the fancy meeting arangement stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I am aware you can active sync via exchange with hotmail and Gmail but with Gmail I know you can sync outlook with Google calender and thus ph7 its a bit of a long workaround but it works
I rang around a few O2 stores around the south of Ireland on Wednesday (the day before the release) to check availability, and 3 out of 4 staff had no idea what I was talking about (even in one or two larger stores).
The last store I rang knew exactly what I was talking about, checked their system, saw that they had one handset due in in the morning, and reserved it for me. Champion.
I was quite nervous about abandoning WM 6.5 for WP7, but after a few days of use I'm really happy. It does all the basics incredibly well (SMS, calls, calendar, email). Web browsing is a pleasure. Everything is fast and it works just as it should.
There is nowhere near the level of customisation that regular 6.5 fanboys would be used to, so if you are expecting to be able to change SMS font size, calendar notification ringtones etc etc then you will be disappointed. The approach here is "Keep It Simple, Stupid" and it works really well. You've just got to go with the flow.
All I'm really waiting for now is a decent GPS Navigation app (along the lines of iGo) and a replacement for SPB Wallet (I believe eWallet is en route shortly) and I'll be a happy camper.
Oh and I've had a crash just the once so far, when I launched the Seesmic app for the first time. The screen locked up and the device rebooted itself. Hasn't happened since, hopefully won't happen too often!
They all know about it here in Birmingham city center!
(In carrier shops... Phones4U and Carphone Warehouse don't get the phones yet)
They've had Windows Phone reps ushering people around in the street.
All O2 shops have HD7 demo units about if you ask, or even on custom displays.
Orange shops have HTC Mozart and Omnia 7.
(But reluctant to get Omnia out now as they seem to be investing a lot of Advertising in the Mozart... went to another shop and made friends with a guy and got one!)
Even Vodafone shop has the HTC Trophy banging about and leaflets for it etc!
daSmirnov said:
It doesn't. Exchange ActiveSync only.
Mind you even Hotmail can almost replicate the feature set of Exchange 2003 nowadays, all it's lacking is Tasks (not supported on WP7) and the fancy meeting arangement stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lumpaywk said:
As far as I am aware you can active sync via exchange with hotmail and Gmail but with Gmail I know you can sync outlook with Google calender and thus ph7 its a bit of a long workaround but it works
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but none of that is a proper solution.
If you sync your outlook contacts with hotmail you loose a lot of data that is normally stored in them, pictures, certain type of contact detail that hotmail does not support.
That is minor however the first live ID you use on the phone needs to be the actual one as that is the live ID that will be used with zune, xbox live and all other apps. No live ID no phone.
AKA my outlook contacts get mixed with my messenger contacts.
Only way around it is to open another hotmail account.
On top of that all contacts are erased if you delete your hotmail profile created on the phone. It has to stay there working. I am not comfortable with having all my contacts in hotmail that is regulary hacked (about every 2 months).
TBH they dropped the bomb there and many other places.
- You cannot transfer files via bluetooth atleast I can not from my laptop, home PC and HD2.
- There is no widgets for main screen to enable/disable wifi/bluetooth on the main screen.
- In no settings for apps that use data (some apps do not even have settings) there is an option to not use data when roaming, this is a major issue as phone constantly goes to internet. Only option is to disable manually all sync, still it will not stop it going off if you click on a app. ---- Partially solved. There is a option insttings to disable all data connections when roaming. So you can stop it all together but no per application option which is very annoying as I always have weather and location enabled to roam. I also check e-mail. Now I will not be able to do that and if I do switch it back on all apps will try o connect.
- There is no GPS software at all
- HTC said there is digital compass ... where?
- No google maps just bing maps
- You can not assign other search providers for now so you stuck with bing.
- You can not change background of the main screen, only option is white or
black
- Do not even start me with the zune music interface and how you have to copy that music
- There is no internet sharing option not even bluetooth as it does not show up when connected to my PC.
you know, it really surprises me at the level of douche-baggery that occurs in these forums, especially the WP7. yes, a lot of features that were previously available either officially or through tweaks for wm 6.5 are gone and pound for pound, the features don't stack up against iOS or android.
but if you're interested in getting a WP7 phone you SHOULD be aware by now of these inherent drawbacks so stop complaining and go elsewhere if you're not satisfied. no one is making you buy these phones. i'm sure most of the bugs will be addressed shortly in ver 1.1 or 2.0. i mean, android didn't really step into its own until 2.0 and neither did iOS.
and i'm saying this even as an iphone 4 user
littleasian said:
you know, it really surprises me at the level of douche-baggery that occurs in these forums, especially the WP7. yes, a lot of features that were previously available either officially or through tweaks for wm 6.5 are gone and pound for pound, the features don't stack up against iOS or android.
but if you're interested in getting a WP7 phone you SHOULD be aware by now of these inherent drawbacks so stop complaining and go elsewhere if you're not satisfied. no one is making you buy these phones. i'm sure most of the bugs will be addressed shortly in ver 1.1 or 2.0. i mean, android didn't really step into its own until 2.0 and neither did iOS.
and i'm saying this even as an iphone 4 user
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I am sorry. I been using HTC's for ages since first o2 one which was just XDA. I been waiting for WP7 as 6.5 was just not it, hardware was there but OS was still acting same slow.
No where have I seen that in WP7 bluetooth will only be for headphones? MS has year of experience in mobile phones basics should have been covered, then again Vista.
I can understand lack of google maps but stuck to bing, they just lost similar case and had to remove IE from win7 replacing it with selection window for other browsers and now this?
Why activesync was removed, why no option to change background they have reverted with WP7 to first Android. WP7 is to be the next thing in long term and not going backwards like they did. Even Android and Iphone can sync with outlook.
It is like getting a sports car with no wheels, all basics are there for great product but it just does not work remotely as good as any other car with wheels.
BTW microsoft removed those functions, they did think about it before doing it (granted assigned wrong people) so it will not be corrected officially for some time. Only possible rescue is regeditor for WP7 and ability to enable services somehow.
Microsoft says about updating:
"Before you start
1 Install the Zune software on your PC or Windows Phone 7 Connector on your Mac. You'll need these programs to download the update to your phone."
Why on earth do you need to install software on your PC to update your phone? The update goes from Microsoft and has to reach the phone; why are they using the PC as an intermediary?
What does the phone need a PC at all? It's its own operating system, has its own data and applications.
Is this something that is going to be fixed when WP7/8 is business-ready? Businesses are hardly going to roll out Zune software across corporate PCs.
I have a suspicion this is connected to the failure. Windows has countless updates and close to none of them are failures. WP7 has had one minor update and it was a failure. They are introducing extra complexity, incorrectness, and unreliability into the system with Zune.
mcfly ? hellllo mcfly ?
I wonder if microsoft is paying attention ?
CSMR said:
Microsoft says about updating:
"Before you start
1 Install the Zune software on your PC or Windows Phone 7 Connector on your Mac. You'll need these programs to download the update to your phone."
Why on earth do you need to install software on your PC to update your phone? The update goes from Microsoft and has to reach the phone; why are they using the PC as an intermediary?
What does the phone need a PC at all? It's its own operating system, has its own data and applications.
Is this something that is going to be fixed when WP7/8 is business-ready? Businesses are hardly going to roll out Zune software across corporate PCs.
I have a suspicion this is connected to the failure. Windows has countless updates and close to none of them are failures. WP7 has had one minor update and it was a failure. They are introducing extra complexity, incorrectness, and unreliability into the system with Zune.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used SE phones for years and in order to update firmware you always had to connect to PC and use OEM software to update the device. It isn't extraordinary.
ohgood said:
I wonder if microsoft is paying attention ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you even own a wp7?
Well, let's just say if you were to extract the update on the phone, then there would probably not be enough space for it. Also, the connection with Zune allows a backup of the phone to be taken, so if your update fails, or you want to restore to a previous backup, you are able to do so. Stop complaining.
sure haven't said:
Do you even own a wp7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no. I don't own an iPhone, symbian, landline phone, xbox, or windows pc, boat, pig, or elephant either. the short time I've spent with demo (I have friends that sell) units proved I can't use wp7 on a daily basis for simple tasks -yet-.
if the update is less than 20mb it will be OTA, but if it's bigger and requires changing the lower layers of the OS, then you are required to connect it to your PC.
connecting it to your PC and using Zune software also provides the ability for a backup/restore capability. though as we have seen, it's still being ironed out...
Look, I am so incredibly happy that Zune was required for this phone, as I had no idea of how awesome it was, honestly. I always pushed it to the side for WMP and now I regret it, as the Zune Pass is the greatest thing I've ever spent money on. Dealing with the update, it allows for stability. I, personally, would never want my phone updating over the air when it comes to an entire OS update. Too many factors, too many things can go wrong, I prefer to let my PC handle the process. It's worked for Apple, while it's gone wrong for Google not to use software...
ohgood said:
no. I don't own an iPhone, symbian, landline phone, xbox, or windows pc, boat, pig, or elephant either. the short time I've spent with demo (I have friends that sell) units proved I can't use wp7 on a daily basis for simple tasks -yet-.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems rather strange - I swapped from an HD2 to the amazing HD7 and apart from missing a few games and apps I CAN use it for everyday tasks with no problems at all. It syncs with my work Exchange server faultlessly, and allows me to view office files without the need for extras. Indeed my IT manager has been so impressed with its smooth integration into our mainly 'Blackberry & iPhone' infrastructure that he has got himself a WP7 device as well now!
Yes there are a few bits missing but I can hardly believe it is unusable in your environment. Most descent coming to the WP7 forums comes from people who either do not even have a device or from those who listen to wining from users who expected far too much from a new OS. All this complaining about updates is laughable as iOS took ages to get an update and so did Android.. yet MS takes less than 6 months to be ready with an update and people moan! LOL.
I thought the PC/Zune requirement was already explained somewhere...
-Zune is used to both download and apply the update to your phone. This eliminates the need to download large (or small) updates through your device's data plan and therefore removes that obstacle in the case of limited data plans.
-Zune also takes care of the backing up (and restoring) of the phone in case of issues.
I'm not too sure what's so complicated about plugging your phone into a computer that should already have the Zune software installed (since it is your only method of syncing content to your phone). If anything, the fact that Zune creates backups makes its a far more reliable method then crossing your fingers and hoping your phone can do it all for you. Imagine if all the phones that failed to update were not initially backed up or didn't have Zune to restore the phone? There would be a great deal more angry consumers. Not to mention, you'd have to download something extra anyway that would do the backing up/restoring for you.
Yes, it is a couple extra steps initially, but it seems like a small price to pay when you think about how you would have to solve your own issues if Zune and backups did not exist.
The Gate Keeper said:
if the update is less than 20mb it will be OTA, but if it's bigger and requires changing the lower layers of the OS, then you are required to connect it to your PC.
connecting it to your PC and using Zune software also provides the ability for a backup/restore capability. though as we have seen, it's still being ironed out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but any phone updates must be done through the PC because the phone needs to be backed up before the update can take place. The size doesn't matter. The 20 MB rule ONLY applies to games/apps on the Marketplace.
prjkthack said:
I thought the PC/Zune requirement was already explained somewhere...
-Zune is used to both download and apply the update to your phone. This eliminates the need to download large (or small) updates through your device's data plan and therefore removes that obstacle in the case of limited data plans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no such need since the phone should be able to access internet via wifi or via a usb connection to the PC. If there is no such connection you can't use Zune, so Zune is a strict disadvantage here, not an advantage.
-Zune also takes care of the backing up (and restoring) of the phone in case of issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then this can be an option. Backup is separate to restore as processes, even if they are run at the same time.
I'm not too sure what's so complicated about plugging your phone into a computer that should already have the Zune software installed (since it is your only method of syncing content to your phone)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a terrible aspect of WP7. The question is, when Microsoft adds some of the basic missing features, will updates come over the air and Zune be just an option for consumers.
If anything, the fact that Zune creates backups makes its a far more reliable method then crossing your fingers and hoping your phone can do it all for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Backup software is fine. I have no objection to making backups. There are multiple ways to backup. Backup is not as important with phones as other devices though as it is not a primary location for data storage, or shouldn't be. However yes, you want your particular choice of content for your phone to be backed up, reselecting it from some other source may be inconvenient.
I'm not going to buy a WP7 phone because I'll have to install the Zune software to install OS updates.
ohgood said:
no. I don't own an iPhone, symbian, landline phone, xbox, or windows pc, boat, pig, or elephant either. the short time I've spent with demo (I have friends that sell) units proved I can't use wp7 on a daily basis for simple tasks -yet-.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good for you, but no one asked u for your opinion on this thread.... so stick to your own OS threads...
CSMR said:
There is no such need since the phone should be able to access internet via wifi or via a usb connection to the PC. If there is no such connection you can't use Zune, so Zune is a strict disadvantage here, not an advantage.
Then this can be an option. Backup is separate to restore as processes, even if they are run at the same time.
This is a terrible aspect of WP7. The question is, when Microsoft adds some of the basic missing features, will updates come over the air and Zune be just an option for consumers.
Backup software is fine. I have no objection to making backups. There are multiple ways to backup. Backup is not as important with phones as other devices though as it is not a primary location for data storage, or shouldn't be. However yes, you want your particular choice of content for your phone to be backed up, reselecting it from some other source may be inconvenient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if u dont like it dont buy it what is the point *****ing???
CSMR said:
There is no such need since the phone should be able to access internet via wifi or via a usb connection to the PC. If there is no such connection you can't use Zune, so Zune is a strict disadvantage here, not an advantage.
Then this can be an option. Backup is separate to restore as processes, even if they are run at the same time.
This is a terrible aspect of WP7. The question is, when Microsoft adds some of the basic missing features, will updates come over the air and Zune be just an option for consumers.
Backup software is fine. I have no objection to making backups. There are multiple ways to backup. Backup is not as important with phones as other devices though as it is not a primary location for data storage, or shouldn't be. However yes, you want your particular choice of content for your phone to be backed up, reselecting it from some other source may be inconvenient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you ever listen to the wp7 radio podcasts, they just talked about the update last week and decided they would force a backup just to be sure that people didn't screw it up.
It's really not that complicated. If you want OTA updates, get a damn android phone and move on.
mdotgarcia said:
I'm not going to buy a WP7 phone because I'll have to install the Zune software to install OS updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why are you here??? Not to mention zune software has been the most pleasant suprise of my buying the hd7.
CSMR said:
There is no such need since the phone should be able to access internet via wifi or via a usb connection to the PC. If there is no such connection you can't use Zune, so Zune is a strict disadvantage here, not an advantage.
Then this can be an option. Backup is separate to restore as processes, even if they are run at the same time.
This is a terrible aspect of WP7. The question is, when Microsoft adds some of the basic missing features, will updates come over the air and Zune be just an option for consumers.
Backup software is fine. I have no objection to making backups. There are multiple ways to backup. Backup is not as important with phones as other devices though as it is not a primary location for data storage, or shouldn't be. However yes, you want your particular choice of content for your phone to be backed up, reselecting it from some other source may be inconvenient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the end of the day, Zune is here to say, at least for the foreseeable future, so there isn't much point in arguing its existence (or necessity). For most, it brings many conveniences. Its not perfect, and it doesn't work for everyone, but if you decide to buy into this platform and its many advantages, you've gotta roll with the punches.
Another important thing to remember is that no matter how much Microsoft may want this phone to be a viable business option, it isn't (at least in its current form). This platform was designed for the general consumer. Sad to say, but your general consumer isn't too bright. So I understand why backing up during every update is a necessity. I understand why Zune and a PC is required to sync media. I understand why they don't do OTA updating and limit OTA app downloads to under 20 MB.
Some of these things may be slight inconveniences to others, but I appreciate the fact that my phone always has a backup in case something goes wrong, and that I don't have to fumble between 5 different .EXE's or pages of directions to do what I need to do. I just fire up Zune, and it does my syncing, my backups, my restore, the marketplace, podcasts, etc. I mean my goodness, how many different applications did Windows Mobile have to accomplish all this. It was crazy. Windows Phone 7 has nowhere near the amount of issues that Windows Mobile had/has and I love it.
Look at it from a business standpoint too, and it further makes sense. Plug it into your Windows PC and hey that sells software. Require Zune and hey that sells movies, music, games, apps, and Zune Pass subscriptions. It advertises products not only from Microsoft, but using the Zune software is another way for Microsoft to provide access to and advertise the Marketplace to generate more sales and exposure for its developers.
In the grand scheme of things, plugging in your phone to your computer every once in a while is a rather trivial thing to complain about to most people.
prjkthack said:
At the end of the day, Zune is here to say, at least for the foreseeable future, so there isn't much point in arguing its existence (or necessity). For most, it brings many conveniences. Its not perfect, and it doesn't work for everyone, but if you decide to buy into this platform and its many advantages, you've gotta roll with the punches.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. It should be there. There should also be alternatives for businesses or anyone who is not the mass consumer.
Another important thing to remember is that no matter how much Microsoft may want this phone to be a viable business option, it isn't (at least in its current form). This platform was designed for the general consumer. Sad to say, but your general consumer isn't too bright. So I understand why backing up during every update is a necessity. I understand why Zune and a PC is required to sync media. I understand why they don't do OTA updating and limit OTA app downloads to under 20 MB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a good point, but Microsoft would be crazy to abandon business. They called it WP7, not Kin 2, and they know they need to cater to business at some point.
Some of these things may be slight inconveniences to others, but I appreciate the fact that my phone always has a backup in case something goes wrong, and that I don't have to fumble between 5 different .EXE's or pages of directions to do what I need to do. I just fire up Zune, and it does my syncing, my backups, my restore, the marketplace, podcasts, etc. I mean my goodness, how many different applications did Windows Mobile have to accomplish all this. It was crazy. Windows Phone 7 has nowhere near the amount of issues that Windows Mobile had/has and I love it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see that. It's a minimal system that is easy. The problem with Zune is if it is so integrated that there is no alternative. Then it's a phone that is targeted towards entertainment but cannot be a business phone. Instead, the convenience features should be an added, optional layer on top of the OS, not integrated into the OS.
In the grand scheme of things, plugging in your phone to your computer every once in a while is a rather trivial thing to complain about to most people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fair. It's more of an architecturaral issue, that integration may be tying down the platform to specific uses and types of customer.
I don't understand the problem. iPhones require a connection to iTunes to update from what I recall, and those have been integrated into a business environment. I don't see how this is any different.
FiyaFleye said:
Look, I am so incredibly happy that Zune was required for this phone, as I had no idea of how awesome it was, honestly. I always pushed it to the side for WMP and now I regret it, as the Zune Pass is the greatest thing I've ever spent money on...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 exactly!
and now what..
w/ windows mobile device center and active zinc ""?