Related
Hi all,
Eversince i bought my BA, i did not need to use Wlan on it (over a year now !!) but i am getting a bit frustrated in the last couple of days as i am unable to use it.
here is the situation - when i come to a place where i know there is a wifi signal (at my friends house) i tap the little icon on the bottom right side of the desktop screen and i get the "Wireless LAN manager" , i check the "Wireless LAN ON" checkbox and then tap "ok" . then the screen changes back to the desktop screen and i can see the little antenna in searching mode (accumulating dots beside it), then i get a popped up baloon asking if i wish to connect to "internet" or "work", i check the internet circle and tap ok (or connect - i dont remmember as i have no wifi signal at the moment), but than nothing happens - the little icon of the antenna is still searching and if i tap it i get the same "Wireless LAN manager" with no signal strength or any thing...if i try the internet explorer, it tries to connect via the GPRS connection...
PLEASE....HELP ANYONE....
It's only a notion but I'd check your friend's WiFi AP. I set one up recently in our place. The device used is a Wireless G Broadband Router and Access Point (AP) which also has a net port (4 physical connections).
I couldn't get a murmur out of it on the simplest device... ancient Jornada 720 Win 2000 with Aironet 340 card (they are matched) although it was evident that all parts were working and the setup programs recognised each other as being there. Tried our Acer n30 next on a Safecom card. Same result. Head scratching.
Eventually a light bulb went on.
Tried a hard reset on the AP/Router. It re-set from one channel (11) to another (6). Everything suddenly started talking.
Next problem... and this is where it gets close to yours... how to stop everyone getting on and in.
The AP Router is full of encryption options from WEP up. Your gadget has to match the requirement from the AP/Router... that might mean a keyword used as a base for encryption or steadily more complex requirements... depends on what your friend's AP Router is set to.
My solution had to be simpler. I could not be bothered to prat about sticking code words all over the place every time I wanted to add a device... and getting encryptions to agree is sometimes not as easy as they'd have you believe.
Answer: Every net device, including the Xiis we now use, has a device specific MAC number.
The AP Router has a table you can enter MAC numbers you want to permit access to... so you needn't fool around with all the clever stuff.
Our AP Router now has our MAC numbers in the table and permits access to them only.
The XDA iis reveals it's MAC number when you tell it to look for a connection.
We now have a WiFi AP serving an ancient egyptian Jornada 720, an Acer N30, an XDAiis, an ordinary PC (using one of the old PCMICIA Aironet Cards which configure on anything with windoze and are dirt cheap on eBay as they're only 802.11b) , and a Sony Vaio Laptop (also using an Aironet), all into a single broadband account.
So check with your chum and see what his settings on his WiFi are. Maybe try a hard re-set on it too if poking about in the admin program doesn't help.
QF
Yol said:
Hi all,
Eversince i bought my BA, i did not need to use Wlan on it (over a year now !!) but i am getting a bit frustrated in the last couple of days as i am unable to use it.
here is the situation - when i come to a place where i know there is a wifi signal (at my friends house) i tap the little icon on the bottom right side of the desktop screen and i get the "Wireless LAN manager" , i check the "Wireless LAN ON" checkbox and then tap "ok" . then the screen changes back to the desktop screen and i can see the little antenna in searching mode (accumulating dots beside it), then i get a popped up baloon asking if i wish to connect to "internet" or "work", i check the internet circle and tap ok (or connect - i dont remmember as i have no wifi signal at the moment), but than nothing happens - the little icon of the antenna is still searching and if i tap it i get the same "Wireless LAN manager" with no signal strength or any thing...if i try the internet explorer, it tries to connect via the GPRS connection...
PLEASE....HELP ANYONE....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
quinbus_flestrin said:
Next problem... and this is where it gets close to yours... how to stop everyone getting on and in.
[snip]
Answer: Every net device, including the Xiis we now use, has a device specific MAC number.
The AP Router has a table you can enter MAC numbers you want to permit access to... so you needn't fool around with all the clever stuff.
Our AP Router now has our MAC numbers in the table and permits access to them only.
The XDA iis reveals it's MAC number when you tell it to look for a connection.
We now have a WiFi AP serving an ancient egyptian Jornada 720, an Acer N30, an XDAiis, an ordinary PC (using one of the old PCMICIA Aironet Cards which configure on anything with windoze and are dirt cheap on eBay as they're only 802.11b) , and a Sony Vaio Laptop (also using an Aironet), all into a single broadband account.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QF,
Are you aware that it's a fairly simple task for someone to spoof a MAC?
And in that you haven't implemented any kind of encryption that means you're broadcasting everything in the clear ... which means that anyone who wishes to access your network needs only wait until they pick up one of your valid MAC's and they're in.
Blocking MAC's is useful ... but enabling WEP (even though we all know it's not going to stop a determined attempt at penetration) will do more to keep out a casual 'visitor'. If your clients can handle WPA-PSK (which may not be the case) given a sufficiently long and random passphrase the only attack is bruteforce which can take years.
Implementing decent security just isn't that hard ... there are plenty of howto's on the net that will walk someone through everything from getting WEP going right through to setting up a VPN.
Yol,
Your friend may have set up some kind of encryption on his Access Point ... if he's connecting to it with a client then he should know what he's using.
If he's NOT connecting to it then check the manual and have a look at the settings on the Access Point. Almost all Access Points will let you connect to them using a web browser.
So if (as an example) your friends AP is at 192.168.1.254 you just plug that into your web browser on a computer that is on the network (in other words, NOT from your BA).
You'll then need to navigate your way to the settings for Wireless security (I can't help you with that ... it's different for pretty much every brand of AP) and see what's set up.
Once you know what the required settings ARE for his AP you need to configure your phone to match. Not having a BA I can't really help with that either ... but I'm sure someone else here can.
I just knew there'd be a more complicated way ;-))...
Seriously Mr Doormat... Thanks for the heads up though.
This guy was just hanging here without a response this morning when I found this XDA board.
I tested our net pretty hard but I was unable to get in without a valid MAC and could find no way of revealing one... not to say there isn't one... I just couldn't find it... which apparently doesn't mean a lot.
What would they gain by getting in though?
Interent Access... sure, but not access to our systems as there is no network in that sense surely? So we could lose bandwidth?
We have the AP/Router open for web access only AFAIK.
The only physical connection is the one you mention... to the computer via the Ethernet card, which accesses the Admin Menu.
I'm unable to get any access around logged in machines myself and I'm on the admin machine.
I dloaded WiFi for Dummies but, as usual, I haven't got past the boring bit in the front where they describe what you are dealing with rather than what you can do to/with it.
I tried bringing in WEP on the AP and setting the old Jornada to WEP too. Firstly it slowed everything to a crawl... and a Jornada is not quick at this anyway as you can imagine... and then the on-board Jornada driver decided to "dis-associate" itself... which is of course Jornada for "adios amigos"... and stopped working altogether.
I picked up a Safecom 802.11g PCMCIA card to try in the laptop, but it really hated that and refused to see it in the end. But it really loves the old Aironets.
Both Vaio and PC are on a nice Windoze XP SP2, from our friends at Appznet. The Jornada is Win 2000, and the two Pocket PCs are 2003.
I looked for a walk thru for bringing this AP on stream. Even the suppliers were baffled... until we did the hard re-set and the channel changed. I don't know what else changed.
As for bringing security on stream... well I tried sorting out the lowest common denominator... the oldest handhelds... they balked at it and I reverted to the last good setting... an old tradition.
It seems to be a question of finding the level for whatever you have.
I can allegedly bring 802.11g on with this PCMCIA card and the AP, but if I do the XDA can only do 802.11b can't it? As can the Safecom for the Acer.
I am so pleased to have found a forum for the XDA, but you'll understand I hope that I'm a bit bemused to find the first topic I get into is WiFi. I thought that had been sorted... I should have known better. )
Any information you feel relevant to this would be much appreciated. Jornada forums are all but dead now. The Acer N30 is having an unusual revival for no reason I can think of. And the AP Router is from a pleasant bunch of folks, but they eveidently know about as much as I do.
QF
Doormat said:
quinbus_flestrin said:
Next problem... and this is where it gets close to yours... how to stop everyone getting on and in.
[snip]
Answer: Every net device, including the Xiis we now use, has a device specific MAC number.
The AP Router has a table you can enter MAC numbers you want to permit access to... so you needn't fool around with all the clever stuff.
Our AP Router now has our MAC numbers in the table and permits access to them only.
The XDA iis reveals it's MAC number when you tell it to look for a connection.
We now have a WiFi AP serving an ancient egyptian Jornada 720, an Acer N30, an XDAiis, an ordinary PC (using one of the old PCMICIA Aironet Cards which configure on anything with windoze and are dirt cheap on eBay as they're only 802.11b) , and a Sony Vaio Laptop (also using an Aironet), all into a single broadband account.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QF,
Are you aware that it's a fairly simple task for someone to spoof a MAC?
And in that you haven't implemented any kind of encryption that means you're broadcasting everything in the clear ... which means that anyone who wishes to access your network needs only wait until they pick up one of your valid MAC's and they're in.
Blocking MAC's is useful ... but enabling WEP (even though we all know it's not going to stop a determined attempt at penetration) will do more to keep out a casual 'visitor'. If your clients can handle WPA-PSK (which may not be the case) given a sufficiently long and random passphrase the only attack is bruteforce which can take years.
Implementing decent security just isn't that hard ... there are plenty of howto's on the net that will walk someone through everything from getting WEP going right through to setting up a VPN.
Yol,
Your friend may have set up some kind of encryption on his Access Point ... if he's connecting to it with a client then he should know what he's using.
If he's NOT connecting to it then check the manual and have a look at the settings on the Access Point. Almost all Access Points will let you connect to them using a web browser.
So if (as an example) your friends AP is at 192.168.1.254 you just plug that into your web browser on a computer that is on the network (in other words, NOT from your BA).
You'll then need to navigate your way to the settings for Wireless security (I can't help you with that ... it's different for pretty much every brand of AP) and see what's set up.
Once you know what the required settings ARE for his AP you need to configure your phone to match. Not having a BA I can't really help with that either ... but I'm sure someone else here can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
quinbus_flestrin said:
I just knew there'd be a more complicated way ;-))...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is always a more complicated way ... that's part of the fun, I think
quinbus_flestrin said:
I tested our net pretty hard but I was unable to get in without a valid MAC and could find no way of revealing one... not to say there isn't one... I just couldn't find it... which apparently doesn't mean a lot.
What would they gain by getting in though?
Interent Access... sure, but not access to our systems as there is no network in that sense surely? So we could lose bandwidth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and No.
An unsecured AP provides a simple means for someone to access the Net anonymously. For someone with malicious intent this has great advantages, as you can imagine. And whatever they might do would be traced back to you.
Don't get me wrong ... I'm not suggesting that there is a pack of rabid hackers circling your place using your wifi as an initial entry point to permit them to realise their schemes to bring down the Internet and western civilisation ;-)
But, as I often point out to my clients ... How would you feel if you found out that in the middle of the night someone used your unsecure AP to upload a couple of hundred MB of kiddie porn? And that you then had to prove that it wasn't YOU.
I admit - it's unlikely and a bit graphic ... but it IS a possible senario.
Less dramtically there is the cost. I'm not sure what your deal is with your ISP ... but in Australia a lot of people have quota's - a given data allowance per month, after which they are either charged excess data rates or are shaped to narrowband speeds. I imagine it would suck to experience either because someone has been downloading movies over your wifi.
quinbus_flestrin said:
We have the AP/Router open for web access only AFAIK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is fairly simple to tunnel any kind of connection through port 80 (which is used for http). Goggle for http AND tunnel and count the hits.
quinbus_flestrin said:
I tried bringing in WEP on the AP and setting the old Jornada to WEP too. Firstly it slowed everything to a crawl... and a Jornada is not quick at this anyway as you can imagine... and then the on-board Jornada driver decided to "dis-associate" itself... which is of course Jornada for "adios amigos"... and stopped working altogether.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is, of course, an overhead with WEP or any other encryption scheme. I personally haven't ever had a problem, although I know some who have.
Generally they found updating the firmware on the router/AP end, and using the latest drivers for their client got them the best performance. YMMV of course.
quinbus_flestrin said:
I looked for a walk thru for bringing this AP on stream. Even the suppliers were baffled... until we did the hard re-set and the channel changed. I don't know what else changed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite possibly nothing ... it is not uncommon for people (even people who should know better) to focus on everything but the channel. Everyone does it
quinbus_flestrin said:
As for bringing security on stream... well I tried sorting out the lowest common denominator... the oldest handhelds... they balked at it and I reverted to the last good setting... an old tradition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If WEP is your only common denominator and updating firmware and drivers doesn't improve your peformance sufficiently under WEP then there is one security measure that I routinely employ, which rarely seems to be mentioned. TURN THE WIFI OFF WHEN YOU AREN'T USING IT.
Case in point ... my home AP is currently running (I see no point in power cycling it over and over) but the wireless is disabled. It takes 30 seconds to browse to the setting on the menu to enable it. It then takes about 30 seconds before I can associate. Before I go to bed at night I make sure that the wireless on the AP is disabled ... I'm not going to be using it so there's no need for it.
There is a lot of discussion about how easy it is to crack WEP ... and it IS easy. IF you have the hardware and sofware and know what you're doing, etc. I should point out that I do NOT have the setup to crack a WEP key ... but I've studied it sufficiently so that I know it's not really secure. BUT it will keep the majority of those who wish to jump on your bandwidth out. So if you can get it going, do so.
The other aspect is the security of what you are moving across the network. Internet banking, for example, is pretty secure as the data is encrypted anyway. But your usernames and passwords for your email, forum accounts, and anything that you are sending that isn't encrypted by default is being broadcast in clear.
This only becomes a problem IF someone is bothering to gather the packets being broadcast and then extracts the relevant info from all the other noise. Which is probably pretty unlikely. Unless, like a mate of mine, you live in a block of apartments with 3 unsecure wifi AP's in reach. I recently suggested that if he were to sell his flat, he could get more by pointing out that it came with free internet
Now thats what I call some good advice. A lot of the topics in this board are a bit over my head... upgrading or cooking new ROMs for example... but this is good practical advice for relatively simple old boys like me.
Our police are so good at arresting people who are not criminals, and so bad at catching those who are, that it is more than likely that bandwidth stolen to upload stuff like porn would land us in prison. They are pathalogically unable to admit that they themselves lie as much as the criminals do and deliberately cause miscarriages of justice now, so unless you can produce an iron-clad case then you are stuffed. They stopped policing some time ago when they started working for the government.
Eight of them performed a judicial murder in the tube, in full view of everyone, and still they deny that they were responsible for a needless death. That about sums them up now. Overpowered and Overpowering.
Sometimes I'm glad I'm confined to the house and the locale so much.
I will certainly turn off the WiFi when not in use. Thanks a lot for the tip.
<Less dramtically there is the cost. I'm not sure what your deal is with your ISP ... but in Australia a lot of people have quota's - a given data allowance per month, after which they are either charged excess data rates or are shaped to narrowband speeds. I imagine it would suck to experience either because someone has been downloading movies over your wifi.>
Here in the increasingly Orwellian UK we use an outfit called ntl. The deal we have is £25 pm 2Gig Broadband and (as yet) no practical dload limits. Although traffic limits are in the agreements, no one so far has reported a penalty. I stayed on 512k for a while when they brought them in, as the limit on there was far higher. But next door went on the 10Gig and dloaded more in a week than I had in a year (films mostly I think) and suffered no hit from ntl.
<It is fairly simple to tunnel any kind of connection through port 80 (which is used for http). Goggle for http AND tunnel and count the hits.>
This I must look into further. Thanks.
<
quinbus_flestrin said:
I tried bringing in WEP on the AP and setting the old Jornada to WEP too. Firstly it slowed everything to a crawl... and a Jornada is not quick at this anyway as you can imagine... and then the on-board Jornada driver decided to "dis-associate" itself... which is of course Jornada for "adios amigos"... and stopped working altogether.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is, of course, an overhead with WEP or any other encryption scheme. I personally haven't ever had a problem, although I know some who have. >
I'll try the WEP once more.
<Generally they found updating the firmware on the router/AP end, and using the latest drivers for their client got them the best performance. YMMV of course. >
This AP/Router is UD'd to date AFAIK. Drivers for the old Jornadas are built-in to the ROM... they don't do Firmware... it's hard wired. I'll really have to retire them I suppose. They're prematurely becoming as anachronistic as my old Atari Portolio and DIPs. )
This is the kicker... simple, effective, and easily done by the punter. The mark of the professional at work.
<If WEP is your only common denominator and updating firmware and drivers doesn't improve your peformance sufficiently under WEP then there is one security measure that I routinely employ, which rarely seems to be mentioned. TURN THE WIFI OFF WHEN YOU AREN'T USING IT.>
<Case in point ... >
Funny you should mention flats. There are some next door and some houses on the other side.
Yesterday our XDAiis and PC notified me that a net was operational and the usual "did I want to connect". I didn't then.
However after reading your post I have.
You're right again. I needn't have bothered with all the work I did WiFi-ing, and the £40 for the AP/Router. This lets the XDA and our laptop in the upstairs sitting room on-line anyway.
My initial task was to get off dial-up in the upstairs sitting room and on to our downstairs BB account... saving the cost of the old account and the extra phone line we had put in, then to re-direct that saving to upping the BB speed.
The AP is off at night anyway... my lady won't have electrics on (aside from the phone) at night... and religiously goes round shutting them off b4 we retire.
I'm going to get my nose back into WiFi for Dummies now, and another one I just 'found' called Wireless Network Hacks and Mods. Please let me know if anything else occurs to you.
QF
quinbus_flestrin said:
This AP/Router is UD'd to date AFAIK. Drivers for the old Jornadas are built-in to the ROM... they don't do Firmware... it's hard wired. I'll really have to retire them I suppose. They're prematurely becoming as anachronistic as my old Atari Portolio and DIPs. )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love old hardware ... I think it's a shame to waste it and with the passion everyone has for 'latest and greatest' one can pick up 'outdated' stuff really cheap.
Add to that the fact that never I upgrade OS or software unless it very clearly provides something that I really want. So I can totally empathise with your desire to keep the Jornada alive as it were.
I'll send you a PM, as we're really drifting into stuff that has little relevance to these forums.
YOL anyone having WIFI WIRELESS PROBLEM
YOL anyone having WIFI WIRELESS PROBLEM
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=40712&highlight=wifi+problem
read this thread fully.. should help..
Doormat said:
quinbus_flestrin said:
I tested our net pretty hard but I was unable to get in without a valid MAC and could find no way of revealing one... not to say there isn't one... I just couldn't find it... which apparently doesn't mean a lot.
What would they gain by getting in though?
Interent Access... sure, but not access to our systems as there is no network in that sense surely? So we could lose bandwidth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and No.
An unsecured AP provides a simple means for someone to access the Net anonymously. For someone with malicious intent this has great advantages, as you can imagine. And whatever they might do would be traced back to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More importantly, once someone has access to the wireless side of your router (i.e., you don't use encryption or you use WEP/WPA-PSK and they cracked your key/passphrase), it's possible for them to poison the ARP tables and launch a man-in-the-middle (MITM) attack against BOTH your wireless clients AND the wired clients plugged into the router. This sounds hard, but it actually quite simple with a tool like Cain. Once they are set up as a MITM, anything goes, including attacks on your SSH connections and web browser SSL sessions (i.e., https). A successful MITM attack such as this can compromise all of the data in these "secure" connections, including usernames, passwords, PINs, etc.
It is very important to lock down the wireless side of your router, even if you do all of your "sensitive" surfing from the wired side. Also, you should always be careful when accepting certificates for secure sites in your web browser. For more information, I suggest you read this whitepaper: http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~aprakash/eecs588/handouts/arppoison.pdf.
Good luck,
Paul
Hi
I'm expecting delivery of T-Mobile HTC Desire soon.
I have chosen this phone over HTC HD2 on a 7 day trial basis.
I know of the issue concerning bluetooth voice dialing on android phones and I am prepared to accept that there might or might not be a solution eventually.
I am a user of Thunderbird and use a program called Birdiesync for use with Windows Mobile phones. It just works 100%.
It seems to sync Thunderbird calendar and email will be fine on Desire, but I'm not so sure about thunderbird and contacts. For me most of my 500 contacts have postal addresses which are important to me, whereas only a small % have email addresses. It seems Thunderbird and Google contacts are handled differently and the few Thunderbird addons that exist for this issue are not 100%. Certainly when it comes to maintaining the structure of postal addresses.
Lastly I use a piece of software called SKScheMa 1.2.17 on Windows Mobile. This allows me to create a script that turns on bluetooth when phone is on charge and turns it off when phone taken off charge. I like this because when I get out of my car and go to a customers front door I don't want the phone still connected to the car bluetooth system. this software handles this for me. QUESTION: Does juicedefender handle this or can anyone else suggest another app.
It seems I am expected to give up quite a lot of functionability to move over to the Android platform, but I do believe it is/will be the OS of choice in the future.
Feedback and help would be most gratefuly received.
You almost always lose functionality when you move from Winmo, but you gain a nice interface and more fun apps. Eventually android will cover the short fall, it just depends how long you can wait.
The issue with the Desire v HD2 is not just software though. As nice as the AMOLED on the Desire is, the size of the HD2 is compelling. There really is no contest for picture and movie viewing. Some like the saturation level on AMOLED screens, but its much less natural than the LCD on the HD2, its just over saturated. Its not such a big deal on a phone i guess, but some pictures and videos do look quite wrong. I put both through a calibration using the gear i had for my Plasma and i can tell you the blacks on the AMOLED are great, but the colours are WAY WAY off. The HD2 is much better despite only being 65k colours.
Yeah
I'm not too sure if Android is for me to be honest.
I am fed up with poor battery life on every single Winmo phone I have ever owned. I use about 1500mins of tak per month. I really do need MS Voice Command, couldn't care less about playing mp3's watching vids etc. I like to be able to surf net and send and recieve emails. Because of my usage i will always be offered top spec phone for free. I just fancied a change, but even prior to delivery I may have to accept the fact that this latest phone is gonna have to be yet another HTC winmo phone that comes with an old platform, poor battery life etc. I may just need to wait another 18 months of contract before moving over to Android. I'm not too sure what winmo 7 will bring or lack or even if it will be available from here for the HD2
Although I am yet to get the Desire in my hands, it seems everything about the OS is a workaround to get the most basic of features working in a fashion that I am used to. The ability to sync contacts/email and calendar should just work. I just don't get it! Perhaps thunderbird is the problem, but I am not prepared to use Outlook. I use portable thunderbird on my main drive, and this allows you to copy the whole thin over onto a USB stick and use anywhere if required. hats just not possible with Outlook.
The HD2 is a great phone if you want compatibility with Office apps and the like. The screen is awesome and (if you use a custom ROM) bettery life is more than acceptable (2 days with moderate use).
BUT the Desire is a better all round phone out the box. I had to cook my own ROM to get my HD2 how I wanted it. I've not touched a thing on the Desire since I got it.
Perhaps you can help me then.
I really would love to be able to have bluetooth on when unit is on charge and off when not. Does anyone know of an app that does it. Does Juicedefender?
Whilst I may not have to meddle with the Desire it just might be beacuse nothing I want it to do for me is actually available.
1. No bluetooth handsfree voice dialing
2. No apparant flawless syncing between Thunderbird and Android platform
3. No bluetooth on when on charge and off when disconnected.
Whilst I fully understand my requirements may not be on the forefront of many mainstream users, they are hardly so obscure to be not available.
I just don't get it. I know the Android platform is the future, but perhaps for me I need to wait.
I'll give it the 7 days and see if the experience is so great that I'm prepared to give up the proper functionability I have come to expect from a phone.
I had the same dilema... HD2 or Desire..
I've got the Desire but it's going back to orange today... Don't get me wrong it's a good phone but the main things I use my phone for just don't work as well as in my winmo diamond... so, i'm getting the HD2 - I stream a lot of video/mp3s with myplayer, skyfire (tvactchup) and also use fpsece a lot on my diamond but the experience i've had with video streaming on the desire is'nt great.. I know they'll get it right when Full Flash is released later in the year (10.1? is it?) but I'm a bit impatient and I can't wait till then.
I've also tried Xdandroid on my diamond and although it's not perfect I should be able to run Android on my winmo device anyway - so that's made my mind up.
I've had my HD2 for about 6 weeks now, and I'm fed up with it. I have loads of issues with it, but the big ones are:
- Constantly crashes (dialer app mainly - I've tried various ROMS with no luck)
- On screen keyboard is useless
- Internet links impossible to hit cleanly every time, even when zoomed in.
- Smooth scrolling of menus/web pages is impossible
- Lack of a proper "App Store"
- No upgrade path to Win Phone 7
- Confused, counter intuitive UI layout (Window's fault)
- Phone is so large its difficult to hold/operate with one hand.
My wife took delivery of her Desire yesterday, and I'm jealous, although it has reminded me that the HD2 has a lovely *big* screen in comparison.
Desire first impressions:
- On screen keyboard is a delight to use
- Internet links are easy to click
- Nice smooth menu action
- Well thought out, intuitive UI
- Sits nicely in the palm, easy to use one handed
In terms of battery life no smart phone is especially good. I dont think you really lose or gain anything by switching to another OS if the hardware spec is basically the same.
Get both! haha
Sent from my HTC Desire using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalkp
Lyrrad said:
Perhaps you can help me then.
I really would love to be able to have bluetooth on when unit is on charge and off when not. Does anyone know of an app that does it. Does Juicedefender?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure that Locale does this on the market, and I believe there are plenty of others too but I can't remember off the top of my head.
I would never go back to WinMo even if someone gave me the latest handset.
ritdaw said:
I'm pretty sure that Locale does this on the market, and I believe there are plenty of others too but I can't remember off the top of my head.
I would never go back to WinMo even if someone gave me the latest handset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay I have also been told that Tasker does it too.
Now I need to be convinced about syncing with Thunderbird properly. Calendar seems fine, and email is easy for me. It's just how contacts are handled. I use postal addresses a lot and I pride myself on the fact that I have over 600 records all properly set out below.
Address
City
State
Postal Code
Home Tel
Mobile Tel
Work Tel
Very few of them have an email address.
Android/Google seems to require an email address so all of my contacts now seem to require a bogus email. That's ok, but Google also seem to want to handle the address more a a note than anything else, and it does not seem to look nice on my PC. How it looks on my phone will be the make or breaking point for me.
I personally like the desire over the HD2, the one thing that annyoed me about the HD2 was the screen problems and having to keep on sending it back to HTC until you finally got one that worked.
Apart from that the wm6.5 and the phone itself was spot on, the HTC Desire on the other hand has not been rooted yet but is damn fast, if not faster than the bulky WM. The only down side to the desire for me are the keys at the bottom of the device.
Lyrrad said:
Android/Google seems to require an email address so all of my contacts now seem to require a bogus email. That's ok, but Google also seem to want to handle the address more a a note than anything else, and it does not seem to look nice on my PC. How it looks on my phone will be the make or breaking point for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A large number of my contacts just have phone numbers and no email addresses. I tried creating a new contact with just a name and it work. Am I miss-understanding what you are trying to do?
Also setting profiles lite/pro probably handles the disabling and enabling of bluetooth.
ritdaw said:
A large number of my contacts just have phone numbers and no email addresses. I tried creating a new contact with just a name and it work. Am I miss-understanding what you are trying to do?
Also setting profiles lite/pro probably handles the disabling and enabling of bluetooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not too sure if this is a Thunderbird issue. I use thunderbird over Outlook because you can instaal Portable Thunderbird onto your hard drive rather than a USB drive. Portable thunderbird by it's very nature does not install anything into your registery. Therefore it is possible to copy it in it in full at any given time on to a USB stick and then you are walking around with all of your details to be used plugged into any PC. I suppose if I were to really sit down and think about this option it may well be redundant if I am prepared to use Google. However my way of thinking at the moment is to use google as nothing more than a server between my Android phone and my email client.
All I know is that the Thunderbird addons do not seem to be flawless.
I need to get the phone and experiment.
I really would like it to work.
No Voice Command or anything that offere bluetooth handsfree voice dialling was all I thought I was giving up by moving to Android. However that may not be the case.
Firstly let me say these are just some of the opinions of staff I've spoken too at 3 O2 shops in my area.
Basically, my upgrade is due next week and I've been looking forward to the new WP7 and the HD7 although I now know the transition will be painful. I wanted to have a play before hand so popped into their shops. I went to 3 because the first 2 hadn't had any hand sets delivered - Only some posters and plastic handsets. They also had next to no knowledge of the phones and pretty much shrugged their shoulders about it.
The third shop had a demo only......which stopped working altogether yesterday. They quoted some dead pixels and then it just gave up. No other explanation given
None of the shops know when they will actually receive any stock.
They all were suggesting I go for the new Blackberry (won't touch these) or an Android phone. Only one lady suggested a iPhone (again not going there).
One guy suggested that this may be a complete flop and we had an interesting conversation as to why he thought so, some of his comments I thought were total gash but he had a point on others. He mentioned that some of the apps on the market place were crashing the device (has anyone any knowledge of this?), or slow (already seeing comments about this on here). To be fair, he was the only one who knew any details about the phone. He suggested that the real release will be after the first update (so Jan), and that at the moment this release was considered to be a real world testing phase.
So none of this is looking promising for the moment. I'm desperate for a new phone - my X1i is pretty long in the tooth now. I'm already installing SBS with Exchange on one of my machines so I don't have to keep my contact and calender items on Live (testing of using the connector is showing loss of data, categories and irregularities which I can't explain or make no sense).
Just thought I'd pass this on.
So basically they have no win phomes and want to sell you something else to make some commission. Why does anyone listen to these salespeople?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
So basically they have no win phomes and want to sell you something else to make some commission. Why does anyone listen to these salespeople?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically - yes. I get the impression that they don't know anything about the phone or OS in the first place to push a sale even if they had the stock.
To be fair, I'll be getting mine via O2 retentions anyway.
Unless the CLR is broken or the Silverlight base library is buggy as hell in the PInvoke parts that interact with the low level system, I really doubt that the apps will crash the phone.
Tom Servo said:
Unless the CLR is broken or the Silverlight base library is buggy as hell in the PInvoke parts that interact with the low level system, I really doubt that the apps will crash the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there have been
some data programs that have a lot of data from rss feeds aren't nearly as smooth as microsoft software (eg email sms and the like)
I don't think its an issue that a quick ota (january) will fix however so in that I agree with the CS rep.
The OS is new and so a few bugs are to be expected. I think once they release the update in Jan it will be much better.
I don't think that they can think it will be a flop as it hasn't even been released in the US and thats where M$ will probably do most of its advertising.
domineus said:
there have been
some data programs that have a lot of data from rss feeds aren't nearly as smooth as microsoft software (eg email sms and the like)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That means nothing without the source code available. The applications could for instance do not make use of threading to mitigate these issues, maybe overload various controls with data instead of using on-demand loading (and unloading), etc blah blah.
My experience with o2 was a bit better. Well the other half went into one of the Guildford stores to pick up two phones for us before she went into work. There were already some people buying some and she overheard one of the staff members say after she brought those they’d have four left, but then the guy she was dealing with said it was the last one, obviously not wanting to shift two of them on PAYG. So I made my own way into Aldershot to pick one up, and the staff in there seemed pretty enthusiastic about the HD7 and actually knew a bit about them. Was somewhat impressed. I'd be more impressed if they offered me a cradle instead of a case though.
As for the crashing applications, as already said they don't crash the phone, it just falls back to the Start screen. The one that got a bit of attention was the Xbox Live Extras application (which lets you send messages, customise your avatar etc) doesn't seem to be working on HTC phones, it was pulled off the Marketplace yesterday and a fix is going through certification now and should be up in a few days.
Some 3rd party applications aren't as smooth as the Microsoft stuff, you can tell the difference between them but they aren't what I would call slow. Load times weren't as bad as I was expecting for the games either.
I'm yet to find a member of staff in any phone shop that heard of windows phone 7
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Just got one. Installed all free apps on market place just to test. Did not yet encounter any problems except one, how do you activesync it to outlook?!?!?!?!?!
I on the other hand had a good experience from O2 and the HD7 with Win Phone 7.
The Basingstoke store had a working demo and the sales guy was very enthuastic about the phone and demo'd it and let me play with the phone for about 15 minutes. The experience was very good of WP7 and now really keen to have it....either on my HD2 or to get a HD7.
I expect it not to be perfect, but from other articles and the sales guy the WP7 OS will get updates regulary which presumably will fix bugs, just like a home OS.
So...HD2 and wait.....or sell HD2 and get HD7???
domineus said:
there have been
some data programs that have a lot of data from rss feeds aren't nearly as smooth as microsoft software (eg email sms and the like)
I don't think its an issue that a quick ota (january) will fix however so in that I agree with the CS rep.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is very likely down to a badly written app and has nothing to do with Microsoft (other than the fact they allowed a sub-par app onto the marketplace).
lee-bowman said:
So...HD2 and wait.....or sell HD2 and get HD7???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless you really want a HD7 I would stick it out and see if you can get the 16GB Omnia 7 instead. The screen is that much better even if it is slightly smaller, as is the camera. The HD7 feels like a cheap knockoff in comparison. The only reason I got the HD7 was 8GB on the Samsung, but will definitely swap it out if it turns out I can get my hands on the 16GB version.
ruscik said:
Just got one. Installed all free apps on market place just to test. Did not yet encounter any problems except one, how do you activesync it to outlook?!?!?!?!?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't. Exchange ActiveSync only.
Mind you even Hotmail can almost replicate the feature set of Exchange 2003 nowadays, all it's lacking is Tasks (not supported on WP7) and the fancy meeting arangement stuff.
I would like to also share my story I went to my local town and the only shop to have had any wp7 handsets was o2 but had sold out only 15 mins after opening, Orange said demand was so high only big stores had any others said due sometime thus month. I want back to o2 store and they phoned around and reserved one in another store got it no problem but was last one they had. I think everyone underestimated the os and didn't have the stock to cover demand so I'm not worried about popularity. The sales ppl will say anything to sell what they have in stock. Apps rock esp the games i recomed harvest and twin blades i have been playing for hours, and that's bearing in mind i have also just bought f1 2010 for my Xbox. Don't get put off phone around you will be glad you did
daSmirnov said:
It doesn't. Exchange ActiveSync only.
Mind you even Hotmail can almost replicate the feature set of Exchange 2003 nowadays, all it's lacking is Tasks (not supported on WP7) and the fancy meeting arangement stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I am aware you can active sync via exchange with hotmail and Gmail but with Gmail I know you can sync outlook with Google calender and thus ph7 its a bit of a long workaround but it works
I rang around a few O2 stores around the south of Ireland on Wednesday (the day before the release) to check availability, and 3 out of 4 staff had no idea what I was talking about (even in one or two larger stores).
The last store I rang knew exactly what I was talking about, checked their system, saw that they had one handset due in in the morning, and reserved it for me. Champion.
I was quite nervous about abandoning WM 6.5 for WP7, but after a few days of use I'm really happy. It does all the basics incredibly well (SMS, calls, calendar, email). Web browsing is a pleasure. Everything is fast and it works just as it should.
There is nowhere near the level of customisation that regular 6.5 fanboys would be used to, so if you are expecting to be able to change SMS font size, calendar notification ringtones etc etc then you will be disappointed. The approach here is "Keep It Simple, Stupid" and it works really well. You've just got to go with the flow.
All I'm really waiting for now is a decent GPS Navigation app (along the lines of iGo) and a replacement for SPB Wallet (I believe eWallet is en route shortly) and I'll be a happy camper.
Oh and I've had a crash just the once so far, when I launched the Seesmic app for the first time. The screen locked up and the device rebooted itself. Hasn't happened since, hopefully won't happen too often!
They all know about it here in Birmingham city center!
(In carrier shops... Phones4U and Carphone Warehouse don't get the phones yet)
They've had Windows Phone reps ushering people around in the street.
All O2 shops have HD7 demo units about if you ask, or even on custom displays.
Orange shops have HTC Mozart and Omnia 7.
(But reluctant to get Omnia out now as they seem to be investing a lot of Advertising in the Mozart... went to another shop and made friends with a guy and got one!)
Even Vodafone shop has the HTC Trophy banging about and leaflets for it etc!
daSmirnov said:
It doesn't. Exchange ActiveSync only.
Mind you even Hotmail can almost replicate the feature set of Exchange 2003 nowadays, all it's lacking is Tasks (not supported on WP7) and the fancy meeting arangement stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lumpaywk said:
As far as I am aware you can active sync via exchange with hotmail and Gmail but with Gmail I know you can sync outlook with Google calender and thus ph7 its a bit of a long workaround but it works
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but none of that is a proper solution.
If you sync your outlook contacts with hotmail you loose a lot of data that is normally stored in them, pictures, certain type of contact detail that hotmail does not support.
That is minor however the first live ID you use on the phone needs to be the actual one as that is the live ID that will be used with zune, xbox live and all other apps. No live ID no phone.
AKA my outlook contacts get mixed with my messenger contacts.
Only way around it is to open another hotmail account.
On top of that all contacts are erased if you delete your hotmail profile created on the phone. It has to stay there working. I am not comfortable with having all my contacts in hotmail that is regulary hacked (about every 2 months).
TBH they dropped the bomb there and many other places.
- You cannot transfer files via bluetooth atleast I can not from my laptop, home PC and HD2.
- There is no widgets for main screen to enable/disable wifi/bluetooth on the main screen.
- In no settings for apps that use data (some apps do not even have settings) there is an option to not use data when roaming, this is a major issue as phone constantly goes to internet. Only option is to disable manually all sync, still it will not stop it going off if you click on a app. ---- Partially solved. There is a option insttings to disable all data connections when roaming. So you can stop it all together but no per application option which is very annoying as I always have weather and location enabled to roam. I also check e-mail. Now I will not be able to do that and if I do switch it back on all apps will try o connect.
- There is no GPS software at all
- HTC said there is digital compass ... where?
- No google maps just bing maps
- You can not assign other search providers for now so you stuck with bing.
- You can not change background of the main screen, only option is white or
black
- Do not even start me with the zune music interface and how you have to copy that music
- There is no internet sharing option not even bluetooth as it does not show up when connected to my PC.
you know, it really surprises me at the level of douche-baggery that occurs in these forums, especially the WP7. yes, a lot of features that were previously available either officially or through tweaks for wm 6.5 are gone and pound for pound, the features don't stack up against iOS or android.
but if you're interested in getting a WP7 phone you SHOULD be aware by now of these inherent drawbacks so stop complaining and go elsewhere if you're not satisfied. no one is making you buy these phones. i'm sure most of the bugs will be addressed shortly in ver 1.1 or 2.0. i mean, android didn't really step into its own until 2.0 and neither did iOS.
and i'm saying this even as an iphone 4 user
littleasian said:
you know, it really surprises me at the level of douche-baggery that occurs in these forums, especially the WP7. yes, a lot of features that were previously available either officially or through tweaks for wm 6.5 are gone and pound for pound, the features don't stack up against iOS or android.
but if you're interested in getting a WP7 phone you SHOULD be aware by now of these inherent drawbacks so stop complaining and go elsewhere if you're not satisfied. no one is making you buy these phones. i'm sure most of the bugs will be addressed shortly in ver 1.1 or 2.0. i mean, android didn't really step into its own until 2.0 and neither did iOS.
and i'm saying this even as an iphone 4 user
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I am sorry. I been using HTC's for ages since first o2 one which was just XDA. I been waiting for WP7 as 6.5 was just not it, hardware was there but OS was still acting same slow.
No where have I seen that in WP7 bluetooth will only be for headphones? MS has year of experience in mobile phones basics should have been covered, then again Vista.
I can understand lack of google maps but stuck to bing, they just lost similar case and had to remove IE from win7 replacing it with selection window for other browsers and now this?
Why activesync was removed, why no option to change background they have reverted with WP7 to first Android. WP7 is to be the next thing in long term and not going backwards like they did. Even Android and Iphone can sync with outlook.
It is like getting a sports car with no wheels, all basics are there for great product but it just does not work remotely as good as any other car with wheels.
BTW microsoft removed those functions, they did think about it before doing it (granted assigned wrong people) so it will not be corrected officially for some time. Only possible rescue is regeditor for WP7 and ability to enable services somehow.
I'm asking since I'm gonna be picking up a Dell Venue Pro (again) I been using Android for a while and I enjoy it. The thing I love the most is the integration with gmail and calendars. Being able to open my calendar on my Macbook and for it to automatically update my calendar on my Droid Pro is convenient. From what I remember, WP7 should sync up the calendar with your gmail account but I'm wondering if theres anyone out there that is able to balance using both phones? For example, I want to be able to write down notes on one phone and for somehow that carry over to my Dell Venue Pro. There was a program called AK Notepad for Android and whatever notes I'd write down on my Droid Pro, I'd be able to access on my Nexus One.
I still carry around my Nexus One without SIM...just because Android allows me to do many things I still cannot with my Optimus 7... so for now, at least until Mango update, I will be carrying two phones.
I have several android devices to play with but still carry my surround as my every day phone. I like both. As to having full cloud based sharing on multiple platforms? I don't think they play that nice quite yet
MO3iusONE said:
For example, I want to be able to write down notes on one phone and for somehow that carry over to my Dell Venue Pro. There was a program called AK Notepad for Android and whatever notes I'd write down on my Droid Pro, I'd be able to access on my Nexus One.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently Evernote (http://www.evernote.com/) is almost ready for Windows Phone 7, which should allow you to create/access notes on pretty much every platform out there.
Try using cloud based apps. It's pretty easy between iPhone and Android, or Android and Android.
It's not that easy with WP7 because we don't have too many apps right now. Looking forward to it!
Juggling between a samsung focus and hopefully in a few hours a galaxy s2. Until mango, the galaxy s2 will be my main phone tho
I have both.
Actually the fact that many users use both speaks for itself....
Anyway I have both of them and ditched WP7 because carrying two devices to do the same thing is kinda nonsense.
There's nothing WP7 does Android can't do
However there are tons of things Android does while WP7 just can't.
WP7 may be very appealing in some scenarios.
Just write your notes in the gmail calendar and sync it on both devices, that's what I do, works like a charm.
/J
jontatas said:
Just write your notes in the gmail calendar and sync it on both devices, that's what I do, works like a charm.
/J
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's actually so simple.
Plus on Android you can send to calendar notes from Note Everything
I also have my wildfire without sim and my htc trophy. I don't now if i will keep the trophy. I am giving it some time to convince me. I am carrying 2 phones for now. One of the most annoying things in windows phone 7 is that the wifi sleeps when the screen is off, so nothing that syncs (gmail, gtalk, calendar, etc)...syncs! Microsoft says its "by design", well i don't like it. Maybe after the Mango update.
aposva said:
One of the most annoying things in windows phone 7 is that the wifi sleeps when the screen is off, so nothing that syncs (gmail, gtalk, calendar, etc)...syncs! Microsoft says its "by design", well i don't like it. Maybe after the Mango update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not a big wifi user but the same thing happens with bluetooth and it's so disgustingly annoying!! I will be streaming music to my car radio using bluetooth and when a song ends while the screen is off, the phone will automatically disconnect the bluetooth connection and I have to go back to settings and reconnect it and why is bluetooth always searching and discoverable??? What, they couldn't add another slider to switch discovery mode on and off so I don't have to see 50 headsets on my list??
I'm not a power user so i don't need all the fancy stuff Android can do. WP7 is great for me as I mainly use exchange and office, but it's the stupid little details that get you frustrated!
PG2G said:
Apparently Evernote (http://www.evernote.com/) is almost ready for Windows Phone 7, which should allow you to create/access notes on pretty much every platform out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OneNote Exists for WP7 and you can view it in a browser. EverNote has too many restrictions for how much data you can transfer, and it requires yet another account creation (ugh!).
Android phones usually come with a memo app (my Vibrant has it), and they typically allow you to send notes via SMS/MMS, Email, etc.
I carry both an HD7 and a Vibrant with Active SIMs in them everywhere. I put my Unlimited Data SIM in my HD7 when I got it because of Zune Pass, but I'm about to switch it back to my Vibrant.
Audio Quality on the Vibrant is 200% better than on the HD7. You basically need headsets with the HD7. The Vibrant's sound can fill a decent sized room. Call and Speaker Phone quality ... the comparison is the same. Vibrant is wildly superior. It's like comparing a surround sound system to a pocket radio...
The HD7 is useless as a phone comapred to the Vibrant. The signal is consistently 2 bars lower and call quality is more volatile. I feel like I'm in the middle of New York on an AT&T iPhone 4 when I'm on the HD7. The Vibrant performs flawlessly.
The HD7 is only useful as a PMP IF you have a decent pair of headsets or a BT Jabra device with FM transmitter in your car (like I do).
The terrible speaker and cell radio in this thing is already enough to relegate it to backup status, but there is the issue of Apps and Services integration.
Android has better apps. After heavy use of both phones. The Android versions perform better and are more stable as well. Twitter for WP7 (even Birdsong) and Twitter for Android... the Android version runs circles around it. Same for Facebook. LinkedIn doesn't exist for WP7.
No decent IM Applications. Half-baked MMS. Can't send Videos off the device via MMS or Email.
A phone can be made better (maybe the DVP has better speakers than the HD7, and a better radio with better data speeds and call quality), but the OS is half-baked and puts way too many limitations on what you, or any app can do. This means there is a definite roadblock IRT functionality that anyone can hit on WP7 that isn't possible on some other platforms.
In addition to that, there are a ton of applications that are missing from the market, and those that are coming (that matter) won't be here for another 6 months or so.
If I was "upgrading" from a dumb/feature phone it probably wouldn't be an issue. But coming from WM/Android/WebOS and having used iPhones more than enough... It's unacceptable as a daily driver.
It has all the detriments of an AT&T iPhone in New York (poor reception/call quality/wildly flunctuating signal strength that never goes above 3 bars even standing under a 3G tower) with none of the benefits (High Quality Apps, Services Integration, Top Apps). In addition to that, the Audio Quality makes it hit and miss even as a ZuneHD replacement, and the Codec Support is just not cute compared to something like a Galaxy S device. There is no DLNA capability, either. Battery Life is not better than an iOS/Android device, so that's not an advantage.
Disclaimer: Some of these issues (in particular the reception/call quality problems) may be an issue with the phone and not the OS itself - but T-Mobile only sells one WP7 device in carrier stores so take that for what it's worth. One other person I know has an HD7 and when I asked him how he likes it he responded (I'm quoting him word for work...) "The call quality is ****, but it's okay I guess." So I'm pretty sure it's not due to having a lemon device
crav4speed said:
I'm not a big wifi user but the same thing happens with bluetooth and it's so disgustingly annoying!! I will be streaming music to my car radio using bluetooth and when a song ends while the screen is off, the phone will automatically disconnect the bluetooth connection and I have to go back to settings and reconnect it and why is bluetooth always searching and discoverable??? What, they couldn't add another slider to switch discovery mode on and off so I don't have to see 50 headsets on my list??
I'm not a power user so i don't need all the fancy stuff Android can do. WP7 is great for me as I mainly use exchange and office, but it's the stupid little details that get you frustrated!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use BT much but I understand the frustration, however the entire platform has been launched under the premise that it's not static or even completed as far as I understand. And given the track record of how MS usually deliver products (a main product and then many "hotfixes" and service packs) I expect most of these small things will be fixed in time.
Still annoying that they manage to miss such apparent things.
/J
aposva said:
I also have my wildfire without sim and my htc trophy. I don't now if i will keep the trophy. I am giving it some time to convince me. I am carrying 2 phones for now. One of the most annoying things in windows phone 7 is that the wifi sleeps when the screen is off, so nothing that syncs (gmail, gtalk, calendar, etc)...syncs! Microsoft says its "by design", well i don't like it. Maybe after the Mango update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android does this as well, that's why some applications (like Trillian for Andorid) have a setting to keep WiFi on when the phone sleeps.
I actually prefer it that way. If the phone is charging the WiFi stays on, however. They do it to conserve battery life, and that was a good decision...
N8ter said:
Android does this as well, that's why some applications (like Trillian for Andorid) have a setting to keep WiFi on when the phone sleeps.
I actually prefer it that way. If the phone is charging the WiFi stays on, however. They do it to conserve battery life, and that was a good decision...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click Wi-Fi Settings, Menu button and go to advanced, change your policy to never sleep, hit menu again and save.
I know that. I was pointing out the default behavior, though
N8ter said:
I know that. I was pointing out the default behavior, though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well atleast the option is there unlike in Microfot's product.
BTW, in the areas where you might have a weak cellular data signal havung your phone connected to a Wi-Fi access point is morr power efficient netting better battery life.
Kind of surprised at the number of people with dual phones. I have a Surround and an Inspire 4G. Before I upgraded to Gingerbread, the Inspire 4G was just so damned choppy, I couldn't really use it for long before I was ready to throw it. Now, it is my primary phone. My Surround has so-so build quality and much more limited functionality. I certainly wish for turn-by-turn directions via Bing maps. NoDo has made it much more fun to use as a communication tool with C&P, and it's smooth as can be. If my work would get the Exchange server up and running instead of using a third party host, I could see it being my primary phone. Until then, its all Android.
lqaddict said:
Well atleast the option is there unlike in Microfot's product.
BTW, in the areas where you might have a weak cellular data signal havung your phone connected to a Wi-Fi access point is morr power efficient netting better battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
with an HD7 that would be everywhere, becuase the radio is so terrible it can never go above 3 bars even if I'm standing under an HSPA+ radio. My Vibrant's radio is 100% better.
I cannot use the HD7 as a phone, it's just too terrible. I only use it to play music these days and after I ETF one of these lines in a month or two I'll probably think hard about getting rid of it - probably just enough to cover the ETF fee, of a bit less than that...
Back in 2003, I came across a feature quietly tucked away in a service pack update I got for Win XP. They called it Microsoft Groove. It was a means of storing info online in case it was too big to send,you could upload pretty much anything(contacts,folders,etc.) and access the info remotely from any internet enabled computer in the world. Thanks but no thanks, I thought. My info, and that of others, is my responsibility to administrate.
Cut to 2012, now the contacts I had synchronised with Outlook back then,were associated with my Windows live account, which saved them online "as a backup". I cant sync contacts directly with my PC, now the info goes straight to the cloud platform. The cloud storage is the common meeting point for my devices, for years you could not take files directly from your 'high-tech' WP7 device and put them in your PC, you were ushered into the cloud computing framework and convinced that the whole thing was your idea all along. Real control over personal information is synonimous with older devices, the more advanced and current your device is,the less control you get over info. Sounds like a lame trade-off to me.
Vukile said:
Back in 2003, I came across a feature quietly tucked away in a service pack update I got for Win XP. They called it Microsoft Groove. It was a means of storing info online in case it was too big to send,you could upload pretty much anything(contacts,folders,etc.) and access the info remotely from any internet enabled computer in the world. Thanks but no thanks, I thought. My info, and that of others, is my responsibility to administrate.
Cut to 2012, now the contacts I had synchronised with Outlook back then,were associated with my Windows live account, which saved them online "as a backup". I cant sync contacts directly with my PC, now the info goes straight to the cloud platform. The cloud storage is the common meeting point for my devices, for years you could not take files directly from your 'high-tech' WP7 device and put them in your PC, you were ushered into the cloud computing framework and convinced that the whole thing was your idea all along. Real control over personal information is synonimous with older devices, the more advanced and current your device is,the less control you get over info. Sounds like a lame trade-off to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many years ago I came across a little used feature called email, all sounded a bit "fantastical" to me at the time, I mean, we had pens, we had paper, letter boxes in every home, if we all sat around typing on monochrome screens our eyes would bleed, we'd get radiation burns and we'd all forget how to write and besides, it hadn't been THAT long since telegrams were sent on mass, and interestingly they would still have been a bigger user base for that too compared to "email"
needless to say we didn't all go blind or forget how to write (although that at least is partially debatable!) and now we send these fandangled electronic letters everywhere instead, so much so in fact, our postal service is just about broke.
I do hear what you are saying, but this IS the world we live in, we need to move with it an to be perfectly honest, the cloud has saved my bacon more than once, in situations that a direct sync with a computer would have been as useful as a chocolate teapot.
im curious
what is it that you don't like about cloud? is there any actual reason other than the "idea" of dumping your stuff on a third party service that can arguably can look after your data in a much more secure location than a home computer
I happen to like having full control of what goes in and out of my device. I dont live too far from the beach,but I rarely go. The idea of not having that option anymore would drive me over the edge, its as logical as having a pool at your house. My rant was spurred on by an article that suggested that our devices would merely be shells. Remember when gmail crashed a while back, or RIM, Facebook,Twitter,etc.? Bothered the hell out of me. If Im likely to fall prey to that again,I should at least be able to keep operating independently of those vices, otherwise my phone will turn into an overpriced flashlight.
Vukile said:
I happen to like having full control of what goes in and out of my device. I dont live too far from the beach,but I rarely go. The idea of not having that option anymore would drive me over the edge, its as logical as having a pool at your house. My rant was spurred on by an article that suggested that our devices would merely be shells. Remember when gmail crashed a while back, or RIM, Facebook,Twitter,etc.? Bothered the hell out of me. If Im likely to fall prey to that again,I should at least be able to keep operating independently of those vices, otherwise my phone will turn into an overpriced flashlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and yet, the flip side to that coin is that, yes you could sync directly to your computer to stay in "control" but should the server go down you still wont get your email in either case. If my server goes down my device keeps the contacts on it, it keeps the emails going back as far as I tell it too, I do not need to have the a connection to the server other than to get new data, which would screw both methods if that were to happen.
The other thing is that whilst direct syncing has benefits to some degree although personally I don't notice the difference any more as I cant even remember the last time I fired up outlook... anyhow, yes you can sync, but lets say you were on the beach and your phone goes tits up, I bet I can reset and be synced before you got off the beach unless the server is down in which case yes you could sync all your old data but your just as stuck for anything new as I would be, of course my other email account would be able to sync its contacts, so that would have to go down too, or perhaps the whole network stops...and wifi,,,
I do see what your saying, I used to think the same until I actually stood back and looked at it objectively, I asked myself some honest questions and added a second layer of redundancy by having my live and gmail accounts sync contacts and calendar info periodically. There really is only so much you can do and the benefits of cloud storage for me far out weigh the downsides.
Sorry my friend, but one way or another, direct syncing like the good old days is a relic of a time that's soon to be forgotten
I get you,dazza,really. My point is, though, that if theres a loss or unavailability of data, I want to be 100% responsible. I dread the day when I have to periodically look at a notification that says "Our technicians are working on it". This crap has gone down with every major cloud computing service or derivative since the innovation was thrust upon the masses. I just want my phone back,man. Screw the innovations, let me take my under-utilised hardware and be on my way.
Vukile said:
I get you,dazza,really. My point is, though, that if theres a loss or unavailability of data, I want to be 100% responsible. I dread the day when I have to periodically look at a notification that says "Our technicians are working on it". This crap has gone down with every major cloud computing service or derivative since the innovation was thrust upon the masses. I just want my phone back,man. Screw the innovations, let me take my under-utilised hardware and be on my way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rip pimp c
I completely understand, but the reality is that is unlikely to come back, although I do see a future where the location of cloud can be changed, think along the lines of corporate domains with AD setup, companies may be ok with you taking work home an accessing via a phone but only on their terms, on their servers, if that were possible I could see a windows server extension to allow that, an thus potentially have it on a home server too... Maybe
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Vukile said:
I get you,dazza,really. My point is, though, that if theres a loss or unavailability of data, I want to be 100% responsible. I dread the day when I have to periodically look at a notification that says "Our technicians are working on it". This crap has gone down with every major cloud computing service or derivative since the innovation was thrust upon the masses. I just want my phone back,man. Screw the innovations, let me take my under-utilised hardware and be on my way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used to feel the same way about print and electronic media. Think about it.
What I don't like is everything being dumbed down and the options being removed (Or made astronomically expensive) that used to exist before.
Microsoft has the technology (And the phone even supports it for corporates).
The fact is in terms of real usefulness palm os offline had far more innovative applications. (And didn't try to make everything moron proof).
---------- Post added at 02:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 AM ----------
gentry33 said:
I used to feel the same way about print and electronic media. Think about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Realistically the consumer should get outlook connectivity / lync / sharepoint / office 365 in a hosted manner not the dumbed down experience that we do get.
(Even the old activesync system was preferable in a lot of ways).
And yet dumbed down is exactly what people want, you are not not the target user
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
dazza9075 said:
And yet dumbed down is exactly what people want, you are not not the target user
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Schaps had the gameplan years ago, but we were too busy sleeping. Imma donate the hell out of itParticipate.
I fell for this this "We're not updating xxxxxxx device" crap afew times. I had an iMate Jam (largest selling PDA of its time) and I let it go because it was never gonna get a WM5 update. Nowadays, I see cats doing backflips and handstands with their WM6.5 iMate Jams like its the most natural thing in the world. When it comes to devices, N.E.R.D
You can still have a modern "PDA" and live completely off the "cloud", your data haphazardly fragmented across devices, if you really feel the need to live in the past. Ironically though, Microsoft is no longer the company that will provide you the platform with which to do so.
I wonder how many former HTC Leo owners wish they never listened to that. Btw, since starting this thread, I managed to achieve my goal. A little Chinese ingenuity here,a little Vietnamese there, a dollop of Russian app and add some Italian and Egyptian flair.... Tasty.
history is cyclical, that's how humanity progresses, we do learn mistakes from the past, but will find news ways to make it again. In XX years time, we might end up going back to individual storage again.