Develop Bugs

EFF trying to keep rooting your phone legal

https://www.eff.org/pages/jailbreaking-not-crime-tell-copyright-office-free-your-devices
Take a look at the article and make a simple comment about what being able to legally root your phone means to you. The exemption that the dmca ruled on in 2010 is about to expire so let's make sure it gets renewed.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App

From what I hear jailbreaking iphones allows access to free paid apps, which is different than rooting android. However, I'm sure this should apply to both android and iphone users. If it became illegal, what would happen if we got caught? Jailed, fined, terminated by carrier?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

Overstew said:
From what I hear jailbreaking iphones allows access to free paid apps, which is different than rooting android. However, I'm sure this should apply to both android and iphone users. If it became illegal, what would happen if we got caught? Jailed, fined, terminated by carrier?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, Android has access to free paid apps without root. The act of jailbreaking and stealing apps are two different things I would think.
Same with modding consoles, you aren't doing anything illegal unless you download games which you never paid for and play them.

jmejiaa said:
The act of jailbreaking and stealing apps are two different things I would think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would absolutely agree with this. Just because I want to root my device, does not mean I desire to steal anything... in fact I buy paid apps all the time when I probably could get them for free if I looked enough.
The worst thing I have probably ever done (if you consider it wrong) as a benefit of root access, is tether my phones 3G connection (I don't get wimax) to my tablet for free. I don't consider this wrong because I am paying for the data service from Sprint, if I choose to share that with my own personal tablet, that should be my choice. I don't do it for my laptop cuz I have a much faster wifi connection at home, but its convenient for the tablet.

THe original ruling on this was in responce to Apple wanting to make it a crome to jail break the phone. The ruling said Jail breaking was legal for fair use IE being able to do customizations and use features the device would support that the Manufacturer did not want to support. These things have not changed the ruling was for fair use. you bought it you can do what you want with it. But the carriers and manufacturer's have the rigth to deny waranty if you do.

Considering Android is open source and we 'own' our phones, we can do what ever we want with them.

Without rooting, we could not access and remove the crap software that our carriers try to force down our throats. We never would have been able to remove CIQ or even know it was there. We would be helpless and putting control of everything we do into hands of the people we pay our money to every month. I don't trust my service provider to maintain my interests for me.

Its my understanding that jail breaking just lets you install apps that aren't in the app store which sounds legal to me
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

jmejiaa said:
Well, Android has access to free paid apps without root. The act of jailbreaking and stealing apps are two different things I would think.
Same with modding consoles, you aren't doing anything illegal unless you download games which you never paid for and play them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just mentioned it because my cousin wanted to jailbreak his ipod to get free paid apps. I didn't necessarily mean everyone steals with rooting/jailbreaking. It was just the first thing that came to mind. The biggest reason i'd see this law passing is because of the misuse of tethering.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

cds0699 said:
I would absolutely agree with this. Just because I want to root my device, does not mean I desire to steal anything... in fact I buy paid apps all the time when I probably could get them for free if I looked enough.
The worst thing I have probably ever done (if you consider it wrong) as a benefit of root access, is tether my phones 3G connection (I don't get wimax) to my tablet for free. I don't consider this wrong because I am paying for the data service from Sprint, if I choose to share that with my own personal tablet, that should be my choice. I don't do it for my laptop cuz I have a much faster wifi connection at home, but its convenient for the tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
while i do understand this, it becomes a conflict of interest because sprint offers the same service on your phone for $30/month... so while TECHNICALLY you didnt agree to ONLY use your data for your phone, they do offer the same service you arent paying for. kinda like using your buddy next door's cable. he pays for it, and doesnt mind at all that you use the other cable box from his service, but its still frowned upon. its a gray area, im not sure what kind of action the carriers can take other than drop you... not that i agree, i use hotspot too...

I hope it stays legal.

Hell all the damn money these carriers and phone manufacture's make off of us it should stay legal, at least for android phones. I could give a **** less about apple and their attitude against everyone and everything! They will put themselves out of business. But android wouldnt be android without Root/jailbreaking and everything that comes along with it. IF they ever took that away I will just use a phone for a phone and go to metro piece of **** or something!

In the apple spectrum, those slimy bastards that make fun of our everything android that's of lesser quality and how they are superior beings for being ifags, for them to go out and steal from the developers is just wrong and should be justifiable with punishment.
In the android spectrum, we don't want to steal. We just want to get the maximum potential out of our device that carriers for some odd reason try and hold back.
Probably because an android phone can last longer. Meaning: keep more interest in the end user for them not to upgrade earlier if they have rooting/rom capabilities keeping this new,fresh, and exciting. Which in turn makes less money for the carrier. But honestly i don't go to the carrier to have a bogged down **** phone and be a helpless lemon and just be forced to upgrade. I want the best bang for my buck and the sooner Carriers realize this the better we will talk of them.

well thats just like everything else these days! They make flat screen tv's to go out in 4or 5 years when the old box tv's would last 20-30 years. Cars are made to die after 150,000 miles or less and now they come out with new phones every couple of months to entice people into keeping up with the jones's and having to have the best instead of just rooting your phone and haveing anything you want on it! If we lose the ability to root and hack our phones, it will clearly be a step backwards...

punwik said:
well thats just like everything else these days! They make flat screen tv's to go out in 4or 5 years when the old box tv's would last 20-30 years. Cars are made to die after 150,000 miles or less and now they come out with new phones every couple of months to entice people into keeping up with the jones's and having to have the best instead of just rooting your phone and haveing anything you want on it! If we lose the ability to root and hack our phones, it will clearly be a step backwards...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man, i just REALLY like your sig. and, i agree with ^

We are suppose to be making stuff biodegradeable and recycling and making less waste! But these companys making the products we have to use everyday like tv's, cars, computers, phones, ect.. are filling up our land fills and creating soooo much waste and ruining our planet! It has been said that at the rate we are going now by the year 2030 we will need at least 2 planet earths to sustain everyone. Its all about GREED and GREED only. The people running everything on this planet are only thinking about their lifetime and maybe their childrens.

If it wasn't bad enough losing file share websites, now this crap? If we can't root, I won't own an Android. It is easy to steal apps, but with these websites down, I am sure it forces more people to buy them. And how are we supposed to get all of our custom ROMs with no website to host them?
Sent from my GSII.

Hey Sprint Techs - Question for you guys!

The post I'm going to quote below got me wondering. I'm making a new thread here because the other thread was posted in development, and at worst it will be locked and at best merged with the other thread the OP made in Q&A. (EDIT - Looks like it was even worse ... the thread was deleted). So ...
newalker91 said:
Just so you guys are aware, many service centers are going to be adopting a stricter interpretation of the Sprint policies in the near future. I've warned about this, but no one likes to listen.
Class 3 device issue includes total device failure in which the device is unable to function without the replacement of the motherboard. This will now include all devices unable to power on after refurbishing, bricked or not bricked. You will be paying a deductible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm curious. What percentage of E4GTs that have been brought into you over the past couple of months, that appear to be full hardware failures (won't boot into DL mode or recovery, or anything else), that only "mysteriously" show a blue light when powered on, do you guys suspect are bricks related to flashing in custom recovery on an ICS kernel?
The above makes me wonder if Sprint has seen a large increase in warranty exchanges over the past couple of months on E4GTs (gee I wonder why) thus driving the need to adjust their service policy? Maybe it's something that's been in the works for awhile in an attempt to keep profit margins up, but I'm curious if this phone may have been a catalyst to crack down on full exchanges.

newalker91 said:
At my store, we've only seen a few. Each of which they claim to have received a software update (when the most recent to have been pushed was months ago) and only the blue light would power up. The pattern continues on with Motorola Photons as well with the white light when plugged into power and Failed to boot 01, and Nexus S 4G with the unlock symbol and frozen at splash. They claimed to have been using it on a car charger and it just stopped working. All of our customers to bring these issues in so far have been young males (age 16-30). Would be one thing if it were like this only at my current location, but it carries back to the last year I spent at my previous job as well with the same types of excuses and category of customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People just are being lazy and not reading everything before they flash. The outcome is going to be bad for all of us, including the non-lazy. It's sad that it comes down to this. This is exactly why Sprint doesn't allow early upgrades anymore, because people abuse it by selling the new phone and the complain a few months later wanting more.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

I highly doubt sprint pays any more then $199 per device. If you can prove otherwise please do.

lafester said:
I highly doubt sprint pays any more then $199 per device. If you can prove otherwise please do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you seriously think Apple sells the iPhone to carriers for $199? Not a chance, and the same applies to Android manufacturers. From what I've read, carriers pay around $500 per smartphone, so have about $300 to make up over the 2 year contract term. A little less for Verizon, because they can get away with charging $299 for some devices.
There's a reason they call it a "subsidy".
Edit - Here's a decent article on the subject with a few numbers ... http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=18672&news=Apple+iPhone+ATT+Verizon+Sprint

newalker91 said:
At my store, we've only seen a few.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you put any kind of percentage on it? Like 1 in 10, or 1 in 50? I'm curious how often these devices completely fail on their own, and how often it's caused by firmware flashing.

lafester said:
I highly doubt sprint pays any more then $199 per device. If you can prove otherwise please do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Companies like sprint do get phones for a good price from the manufacturer. But you have to look at it from the provider's point of view... Sprint is not making a profit from the time that you first sign a contract. That's why we signed a contract, we agreed to be a customer for the length of the contract in order to get a good price. That's why you get charged for an Early Termination Fee for breaking that contract early.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

I have paid for TEP since my HTC Evo, have not once bricked or even brought any phone back to sprint. It's sad that so many are bricking and not taking responsibility and even worse is when I hear stories of successful returns even without insurance.

Couldn't agree more. If you brick it, its your own fault. You should just pay the 100$ deductible and call it even. If you want to avoid it then either read read and read some more or don't mess with it in the first place. The only people I am not talking about are the devs who found the problems out the hard way. But when they say don't do somehing and you do it because you couldn't be bothered to read a paragraph you should pay up.
Sent from my BAD A$$ EPIC TOUCH 4G

I can't speak for all techs but I just took a $1.04 an hour pay cut and I am now offered commission based on customer satisfaction. Bring me your bricked, rooted phones, and don't be a total bonehead in my store and I will take care of you.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA

Sorry to say it, but why not just make TEP mandatory for any subsidized smartphone. Maybe a once per device life-cycle brick swap, after that its deductable. If its a bad OTA, Sprint will know and can make exceptions, but other than that, it would be a good idea to just assume everyone roots, and work with it. We can help by not flaming people asking questions regarding flashing when its known that some methods are very risky.

I've mostly held my tongue when seeing people talking about bricking their phones and then lying to Sprint so they can get a replacement at reduced/no cost. The few times I did speak up (as well as a few others) there were responses dogging people for their moral superiority, one person even suggested if I bricked my phone I'd do the same thing, to which I replied I most certainly would not.
I don't judge people. You do what your conscience allows you to live with, as do I. But I will say that I would be pissed if I ever took a truly borked (not by my hand) phone into Sprint and got major hassle because they might assume I'm just one more person futzing up my phone and trying to get a new one.
No one wants to accept their actions may have long term consequences but the truth is, they do. For every bricked phone they've been duped into replacing there's a price to pay and that price is likely going to be spread out to all of us in the form of higher phone prices (if they don't get rid of subsidy pricing altogether), higher insurance rates and possibly even fewer service centers due to cutbacks within the company.
So maybe just be a little extra careful before flashing that next leak or ROM. Read the instructions, read them again, ask questions before flashing and then take responsibility for what ultimately happens.
Okay, I suppose I'll get off my high horse now.

newalker91 said:
If you're going to start hurting your own exchange rate and cost Sprint extra money on DBR equipment just so you can make your commission, then there's a lot of failure going on in your location. Your front office is failing to properly analyze the situation and the back office isn't following policy. Do not create the ticket until you know exactly what the situation is, and then you won't be in a bind when you realize you can't fix it and need to violate policy to get a good survey.
As for the percentage of bricked devices we see, I'd say 1 in 100 at the very most. We see between 175-250 phones per day on average. Like I said before, the bricked devices are usually brought in by young males who seem to think they know a lot about their phone. Extensive retail fraud training comes in handy when we can pick out when we're being fed a line because they immediately start over-explaining what was going on when the device just failed and then they start offering explanations as to why their story is valid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After the 1st month of the change the increased our csat goals. As for my exchange rate, as a store we are below 20% our goal is 32%. If I miss my goal, guess what, nothing happens. If I miss csat goals, I take a huge paycut. I agree we don't see many unrecoverably bricked phones. According to m&P's we cover rooted devices so whatever... as for dbr'ed phones, I am still the king at spotting liquid damage.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA

im0rtalz said:
I have paid for TEP since my HTC Evo, have not once bricked or even brought any phone back to sprint. It's sad that so many are bricking and not taking responsibility and even worse is when I hear stories of successful returns even without insurance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must say I have been paying TEP for 2 phones for over 7 years and way back in the $6 dollar days I think it was. I have been rooting and messing with my phone since my PC6700 and I have not had to use my Ins at all. Hey it sucks to pay for it all those years but I rather have it than not. But you can't knock people for trying to get away with what they can... unfortunately its kinda human nature to get as much as they can out of certain situations...
patrao_n said:
Couldn't agree more. If you brick it, its your own fault. You should just pay the 100$ deductible and call it even. If you want to avoid it then either read read and read some more or don't mess with it in the first place. The only people I am not talking about are the devs who found the problems out the hard way. But when they say don't do somehing and you do it because you couldn't be bothered to read a paragraph you should pay up.
Sent from my BAD A$$ EPIC TOUCH 4G
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Other than developers there were some in the beginning that got caught up long before some developers took the plunge and borked their phones. I agree if more people read the OP then we would have less issues. They should have an agreement popup when you click to download a rom stating that you read the OP or something. I know it won't work but I am just saying there were like 5 "I think I bricked my phone" threads popping up every 12 hours for a few weeks....

The only phone I have had that would not boot and give a blue led flash was one of our in store demos. It was plugged in all day on a demo loop.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA

Dchibro said:
Do you seriously think Apple sells the iPhone to carriers for $199? Not a chance, and the same applies to Android manufacturers. From what I've read, carriers pay around $500 per smartphone, so have about $300 to make up over the 2 year contract term. A little less for Verizon, because they can get away with charging $299 for some devices.
There's a reason they call it a "subsidy".
Edit - Here's a decent article on the subject with a few numbers ... http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=18672&news=Apple+iPhone+ATT+Verizon+Sprint
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple should, since it probably costs them like 50 cents to have a bunch of suicidal chinese workers make their Iphones.

clide whit said:
Apple should, since it probably costs them like 50 cents to have a bunch of suicidal chinese workers make their Iphones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for contributing. Run along now....
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

I hope to god I don't brick my phone, although with developing its almost unavoidable at some point..
Both I and my dad have made friends with a tech at sprint, he has been helping us out since the old htc hero days, so I would like you other sprint techs to clarify for me..
Last time I had gone in (got my ns4g, mid-july) he had told me that they cover bricked devices, so if anything went wrong in that area, they would replace the device for me.. Never had to use my TEP, and have had it for the past 4 years.
Would they replace my ns4g if I brought it bricked? or would there be a deductable? Not trying to lie to them, just curious. I had developed for it for the past couple months and come close to bricking a few times. If I could use my TEP powers just this once, I would be a happy camper with my ns4g.

newalker91 said:
By policy, anything that voids warranty falls under deductible. This includes damage caused by root, misuse or misplacement. Some techs will still help you with the bricking part.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for clarifying.. I guess i'll just have to bring it to my friendly sprint tech and see what he can do..

newalker91 said:
Lol, I'm still a little shocked at how corporate techs handle LD. A tiny little blemish in the copper and a couple of my techs scream LD! LD! and DBR the phone just to avoid putting in any effort. I see this as a lack of experience in determining the true cause of the customer's problem. In situations where there is a little LD, I just make the customer aware and scrub it off with a little denatured alcohol, run a gold pen over it to re-seal the copper and toss in an anti-tarnish tab to absorb any humidity that would aggregate it. That's how you earn true CSAT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So when they come back a week later and have a dead phone, that is shoddy work. Flag it, then offer the cleaning, give no promises. I have seen phones that has been at the bottom of a pool for 15 minutes and my brother is still using it, and I have seen a tiny spot of corrosion on a power ic and the phone will never power on. Just fyi I have been doing this for 9 years now, I have 84 surveys under my belt, which is a lot for a tech, I am 84 for 84. Our repair csat avg for the last year is 82%. Don't tell me how to earn csat, SON. Yes I realized I just started a pissing match on a forum, but I don't like being told I don't know how to do my job. My srss has 3rd party techs come and shadow me to learn the right way to do things.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA

84 surveys???? I get 84 surveys a month :x with. 100% csats I might add
Not bragging lol
Ooooook a liiitle lol jk
I can assure you if you have water damage, even in the slightest, I will not be replacing your device so some poor bloke can get your remnufactured board and I have to replace his too...

Your 2 cents on Piracy

Recently I saw that apps are now discriminating against root users(not allowing download/play). Do you think if apps would universally start doing this, would it cut down piracy or just push more root users to download illegally?
I for one believe it will have the latter effect, what do you guys think of this?
AT&T SGS3
TEAM BAKED ROM Blackbean 5
Ktoonsez KT747 Kernel
Medical MJ supporter

I think if ppl would just stop acting so self-entitled, and stopped stealing ****, this would not even be an issue... Unfortunately - the world is full of idiots.. Only takes a few to ruin a good thing for all of us.

Dankest said:
Recently I saw that apps are now discriminating against root users(not allowing download/play). Do you think if apps would universally start doing this, would it cut down piracy or just push more root users to download illegally?
I for one believe it will have the latter effect, what do you guys think of this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what are some example apps that are denying access if your phone is determined to be rooted? I've never run into one, and I can't imagine any popular app would resort to something so easily worked around.
(the workaround: temporarily move/rename the 'su' binary out of the PATH to "hide" it, since that's the method almost all apps would use to detect if you're rooted.)

To install a pirated app is allow unknown sources...anyone can do it, idk why they are discriminating....
Sent from AT&T SGS3

zmore said:
So what are some example apps that are denying access if your phone is determined to be rooted? I've never run into one, and I can't imagine any popular app would resort to something so easily worked around.
(the workaround: temporarily move/rename the 'su' binary out of the PATH to "hide" it, since that's the method almost all apps would use to detect if you're rooted.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look up chaos rings by a little company called square enix. Looks like they are trying to crack down on app piracy(maybe Cuz of ff3 pirates?).
AT&T SGS3
TEAM BAKED ROM Blackbean 5
Ktoonsez KT747 Kernel
Medical MJ supporter

I could care less about that kind of stuff if companies want to do that then they don't deserve my business or anybody else's business for that matter. Then just watch how fast the companies change their ways when nobody is buying their products
Galaxy SIII via XDA premium

some people cant afford to buy certain apps, like a 99$ navigation map for example. There are many different points of views...

Apple deserter said:
some people cant afford to buy certain apps, like a 99$ navigation map for example. There are many different points of views...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So ppl can afford $400 - $600 (retail) and $200-ish smartphones, $50 - $100 a month contracts... yet they can't afford a $0.99 app.... please... that's total bs.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium

G-Man. said:
So ppl can afford $400 - $600 (retail) and $200-ish smartphones, $50 - $100 a month contracts... yet they can't afford a $0.99 app.... please... that's total bs.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said... I set up my "online" credit card for Google Play at $100. Its been like over an year now, n I still have cash left in it... And not one pirated app on my phone. Most of the apps are like a $ or two... and they are more like 1 time buying with free updates for life (well, many of them).
All it takes is a $ or 2 for an you love... so what's the big deal when you are paying like $100 something each month to the cell phone service provider.

Apple deserter said:
some people cant afford to buy certain apps, like a 99$ navigation map for example. There are many different points of views...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Think about what you just said.
"...stealing is justified because the person who wants to steal feels that they are unwilling to pay the cost for the item...there are many points of view..."
Yeah...and the entitlement mindset "you have something that I feel that I'm entitled to and I don't care if I do something that's wrong...all that matters is that I get it...."...that's a point of view.
I've never understood people who use this rationale....stealing is stealing no matter how you justify it to make yourself feel better while you are doing it.

Apple deserter said:
some people cant afford to buy certain apps, like a 99$ navigation map for example. There are many different points of views...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's the threshold for stealing? If it were only $50 then it wouldn't be ok? $25? If you can't afford a new car you couldn't just go steal one and have it be ok. And everyone knows "You wouldn't download a car."
If I don't want to pay what it's offered for then I just do without. People should look into dropping their entitlement complex.
On another note, I don't buy into the whole "It's not available in my locale" argument. Maybe I just don't fully understand it being in the US. I've seen many ways to fool your phone/the market to seeing a new locale (for free), and most apps I've ever bought have a direct buy version anyway.

Doesn't say anywhere that you have to pay for the apps. Me downloading an apk isn't theft. The original copy is still left intact. Pirates raid ships and steal. They don't make copies.
Sent from the future on my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 3

bootloopz said:
Doesn't say anywhere that you have to pay for the apps. Me downloading an apk isn't theft. The original copy is still left intact. Pirates raid ships and steal. They don't make copies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?

bootloopz said:
Doesn't say anywhere that you have to pay for the apps. Me downloading an apk isn't theft. The original copy is still left intact. Pirates raid ships and steal. They don't make copies.
Sent from the future on my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the app isn't offered for free by the developer and you obtain a copy without paying then you're stealing. If you want a warm fuzzy because you're stealing something that can be copied then go ahead and tell yourself that. You are still taking money out of the dev's pocket through theft.

Nick D said:
If the app isn't offered for free by the developer and you obtain a copy without paying then you're stealing. If you want a warm fuzzy because you're stealing something that can be copied then go ahead and tell yourself that. You are still taking money out of the dev's pocket through theft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This argument only stands if you intended to buy the app in the first place and if there weren't so many cases in which piracy increased sales rather than decreased them.
Of course, the opposite is true as well. There are a number of games out there where it was simply more prudent to pirate the game if you wanted to, you know, play it whenever you wanted (Cough, Ubisoft games, cough).
I understand that some people are morally outraged by piracy... but much like so many other things in life, not everyone is. I used to pirate like nobodies business.. but now that I make more money, I typically only pirate the game if I am unsure about it and it doesn't have a demo. If I like it, I go buy it. If not, I get rid of it. I also typically pirate games that have an obscenely restrictive DRM embedded... not because I want to play it but just because screw those guys for putting it in there. DRM increases piracy, not hinders it.
However, copyright infringement is not theft. It is not stealing. Nothing is removed from anywhere. No money is removed from the dev's pockets because it was never there in the first place. If the item couldn't be pirated, that person wouldn't magically have more money because a whole lot of the people that pirate do it because they can't afford it in the first place.
Not to mention, there are companies who don't consider piracy a bad thing: http://www.gamespot.com/news/angry-birds-dev-says-piracy-may-not-be-a-bad-thing-6349485
Not to mention all of these industries who are trying to fight piracy so hard are doing it in the utterly wrong way. People pirate movies? Ok, rather than make movies easy to obtain online and permanently owned just like a dvd copy... they make it abnormally difficult, with higher prices and restrictive licensing and DRM. They make movie ticket prices skyrocket. In short, they make it annoying as all hell to acquire a legitimate digital copy. On the flipside, you can go to google, type in the name of a movie (Say... I dunno, The Avengers), pull up a torrent site, hit download and bam, you now have a digital copy without drm you own.
Music is much the same way, though it is improving. It isn't a whole lot better but I have forsaken pirating music and simply listen to Pandora or Spotify.
TV shows are in the same bracket as movies. It would be so simply to, the night of or the day after showing a new episode, put it up for sale for a dollar or two for people to buy and own. Make it quick, cheap and simple and people will FLOCK to it. But they don't. So everyone just goes and watches Hulu or pirates it.
Games are a more unique sector. They have numerous methods of easily obtaining the games but these methods are getting more restrictive, with licensing and "If you piss us off, you lose everything you bought from us" rules. Origin does this, Steam... yeah, not a very good thing. Why spend all that time worrying about that if you only play single player? Just go pirate it, then nobody can take it from you, right? So we have easy methods of quickly obtaining games, but they keep adding on to their list of rules and restrictions. Steam is the best of the bunch and even they will remove all access to the hundreds to thousands of dollars of games you spent if you break a rule. Even they don't allow anything but arbitration suits. You know the times that most games make the largest amount of sales and profit on Steam? During the Summer Sale and Winter Sale. Dev's love those sales because sales skyrocket to the moon and beyond. Their profit skyrockets for a few weeks. These sales make it obvious what the problem is for a lot of people... money. Is it worth the money? Yeah... less games are these days than ever. Yay, $64.94 after tax for a new game... with 4 hours of gameplay! Awesome, I totally feel that was worth my money! I am definitely going to go buy Gears of War 2 now for another 4 hours of fun!
Is piracy wrong? According to society, yes. Is it even remotely as harmful as the corporations play it out to be? Not hardly.
Forbes:
"This is a negotiation where at any time, your customer could just go download the damn movie for free, and they’re doing you a favor by even considering picking it up legally. And you have the nerve to think it’s on YOUR terms? That’s not how negotiation works. It may not be right, but it’s reality, and they have to face it.
Yet movie companies threaten to put Netflix out of business by charging them huge amounts of money to have access to their content. Netflix is in the forefront of the war on piracy, and the studios don’t even seem to understand it. It’s incredible."

Nick D said:
And everyone knows "You wouldn't download a car."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. Yes I would. If I could, I most certainly would.

Everything in the world should be open source. Open source coding languages are being used to code these apps. For the most part. So why is it right for someone to charge money for something they built using free software? If I were a dev, I'd open up all my code to the community so we can all improve upon it.
Sent from the future on my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 3

I used to pirate apps...when i was a dumb teenager with little money. Now, i buy ALL my apps, how hard is it to pay 0.99$ for most apps, or even 5$ for the most premium, you not only get regular updates and you also say thank you to the guy that spent time and money to bring you something cool. If people were not so lazy or had higher goals in life than working for a fast food or grocery store, maybe they'd didn't care to pay that little price. The only thing i still pirate is movies, and it's strictly for convenience because here in Canada, our Netflix sucks pretty bad, our video store rent movies for 1/4 of the price of buying it new, and i live a good 30 minutes away from the closest video store. So i have no choice to download if i want to see a movie. But i regularly go to the theaters.

polish_pat said:
I used to pirate apps...when i was a dumb teenager with little money. Now, i buy ALL my apps, how hard is it to pay 0.99$ for most apps, or even 5$ for the most premium, you not only get regular updates and you also say thank you to the guy that spent time and money to bring you something cool. If people were not so lazy or had higher goals in life than working for a fast food or grocery store, maybe they'd didn't care to pay that little price. The only thing i still pirate is movies, and it's strictly for convenience because here in Canada, our Netflix sucks pretty bad, our video store rent movies for 1/4 of the price of buying it new, and i live a good 30 minutes away from the closest video store. So i have no choice to download if i want to see a movie. But i regularly go to the theaters.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You just said pirating is for dumb, broke teenagers. Yet, you pirate movies. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Whether you pirate a 99 cent app, or a $40 bluray, you're still a pirate.
Sent from the future on my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 3

bootloopz said:
You just said pirating is for dumb, broke teenagers. Yet, you pirate movies. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Whether you pirate a 99 cent app, or a $40 bluray, you're still a pirate.
Sent from the future on my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe that he is saying that he would buy the movies if it wasn't such an inconvenience where he lives.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[Q] s-off: only sunshine method?

hi. i've a "recent" m8. i've tried to s-off with firewater method but it doesn't run. the only method that work is sunshine, but, IMHO, $25 it's too much for a "simply" tool (firewater was FREE!!). there is a third method? or my only alternative is relock the phone and wait a free tool (if it ever comes out)?

sirio87s said:
hi. i've a "recent" m8. i've tried to s-off with firewater method but it doesn't run. the only method that work is sunshine, but, IMHO, $25 it's too much for a "simply" tool (firewater was FREE!!). there is a third method? or my only alternative is relock the phone and wait a free tool (if it ever comes out)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, Sunshine is your only way. Firewater was 'free' but I donated to the Devs as they put a ton of work in to develop the exploits to give us S-OFF. $25 is cheap IMO

EddyOS said:
Nope, Sunshine is your only way. Firewater was 'free' but I donated to the Devs as they put a ton of work in to develop the exploits to give us S-OFF. $25 is cheap IMO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i donate my little contribute to venom team (i use the viper rom) for example, but, i repeat, imho $25 is too much for a tool that rest for that specific phone (for example, if it was a app, you must install the app on all your phones/tabs!)....

sirio87s said:
i donate my little contribute to venom team (i use the viper rom) for example, but, i repeat, imho $25 is too much for a tool that rest for that specific phone (for example, if it was a app, you must install the app on all your phones/tabs!)....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're entitled to your opinion, but in this instance there's no other way of gaining S-OFF so you have no choice if you want it...

If you update your M8 yes
sirio87s said:
hi. i've a "recent" m8. i've tried to s-off with firewater method but it doesn't run. the only method that work is sunshine, but, IMHO, $25 it's too much for a "simply" tool (firewater was FREE!!). there is a third method? or my only alternative is relock the phone and wait a free tool (if it ever comes out)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I updated via OTA my M8 so the firewater method doesn't work, I tried with sunshine method and works great :good:

I'm sorry but I have to laugh at these threads. These devs do this work for nothing. Sacrifice maybe jobs and family sleep and money to supply these methods for users. 25dollars is nothing if you bought the phone SIM free or even contract

snwman said:
I'm sorry but I have to laugh at these threads. These devs do this work for nothing. Sacrifice maybe jobs and family sleep and money to supply these methods for users. 25dollars is nothing if you bought the phone SIM free or even contract
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely agree, don't bother if you dont want to pay what is imo no different to paying for a network unlock code which is what you will also get with s-off. Do you realise how much hard work goes into things like this?
How often do you offer your services for free?!
You have a choice, no S-off or stump up and pay the developers a small amount for many many hours of hard work to completely unlock your phone.

EddyOS said:
They offered it for free but had the option to donate. Now, clearly people didn't donate as, if they did, they wouldn't have to charge as the donations would cover the bricked device, etc. Now, if you don't wanna pay that's your choice but they're not gonna change the price so it's that or nothing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i've understand and i've decided to relock the phone (the red text is enervating!). the sense is beautiful and the phone work great. peace!

For me was $25 well spent. Decided to do it now because who knows what's to come with updates... Made that mistake before a few years back and got stuck not being able to on a different model after update.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

its because we're so spoiled here on XDA, with all the great roms,tweaks,kernels, and more that are offered to us for free, that some folks freak out when something comes along they actually have to PAY for.
funny how people can come up with 700 dollars for a phone, but if it costs a small fraction of that to buy something that would enhance their experience, and help further the development of their device, they cant do it.

did anyone have tried it with the latest firmware 2.22

still waiting for 2.22 firmware to come to my tmobile phone..

Ok I get it...I think he's right I mean $25 is a lot and since there are tons of people that are buying a m8 and rooting it the devs should of charged $10 max..they are making more than enough off sunshine and tbh it's way more difficult to port roms over with tweaks then to create an s off tool. To be honest fire water should update s off and yes it should be free...s off is basically free for every other phone

gator9422 said:
Ok I get it...I think he's right I mean $25 is a lot and since there are tons of people that are buying a m8 and rooting it the devs should of charged $10 max..they are making more than enough off sunshine and tbh it's way more difficult to port roms over with tweaks then to create an s off tool. To be honest fire water should update s off and yes it should be free...s off is basically free for every other phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My 2 cents
I agree that $25 sounds like a lot, maybe they decided to charge that because it works on phones that firewater cannot s-off. who knows... but the real question is, what decides the price of their efforts? Is that the client or the developer? what clause makes you decide that $25 is too much or not? I paid the $25 without hesitation of is too much or not. My motivation was: do I want the stupid red banner go away or not? For me it was a go with the flow and pay.
Comparing $25 to an app that normally rounds no more than $5, yes it is too much but thinking what did they do better and how many hours did they pass thinking, coding, testing, screwing up phones just to make this sw work where firewater didn't? that;s a different story.
Everyone can make their own decisions and I respect them, just don't judge too quickly whether something is too expensive or not as nobody but the developers know what took place to make something work. :good:

jmoneste said:
how many hours did they pass thinking, coding, testing, screwing up phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't blame the devs for wanting to be compensated for their time and effort. Now of course, the issue is that many devs give that time and effort for no fee at all. So to go from "free" all the way up to $25, the sticker shock is understandable. I tend to agree that a $5 or $10 price would have gone over a lot better. Although I don't disagree with your points at all.

and, I believe they bought a couple of phones to work on, so at 650 each, plus tax and delivery, and suddenly its 1400.00 or more..plus the time to work on it..
makes complaining about 25 bucks seem pretty lame, doesn't it?

Sunshine is the only method that works for all variants of the m8 (apparently). Firewater was developed by the same devs that made sunshine.
IMHO $25 is nothing to achieve S-OFF. Think of it like this (This is probably underestimating this by a butt load but.....)
2 devs have spent (for example) 100 hours each on this. That's 200 man hours. If you charge their time out at $15 per hour that is a sum of $3000 just in their time applied. (personally $15 is very low for the skillset I think but it keeps them in crisps and coffee)
In building this they have killed 4 devices and got it working on the 5th. Thats 5 devices at $650 each (not including tax and shipping I believe)
5 x 650 = $3250
Add this to the $3000 in man hours which comes to $6250. $6250 to develop this!!!!!
If you divide that by the $25 they charge then 250 people have to pay for it just to break even. And like I've said, I'm pretty sure I've underestimated this by loads. Would any of you seriously spend that time and money to develop something like this then dish it out for free? Doubt it.
There's seems to be too many 'I wants' on here now. People who want to mod their phone but don't have the time or patience to let the devs do what they do. It's nothing short of brilliant some of the works that go on on here. I've been here since the HTC magic when rooting the thing took about 3 days. You had to downgrade H-boots, make gold cards etc etc and now there are hundreds of tools FOR FREE that do all this for us but there are still a minority who want more. There will come a time when the devs stop. They will give up because all the joy they got from hacking, sharing exploits and building roms will be sucked out of it by the 'I wants'. No body wants that to happen because of the amazing work they create.
I get that people have their own opinions and that is fine, and I get that $25 is a lot of money to some people, but personally, if you don't like the fact they are charging $25, don't pay it. Its simple. Don't come on here and moan about it!!
Just my two cents like.....

I paid the $25 and it's worth it, worked perfect and now S off. I'm a pensioner and you all complain about $25

3484jacks said:
2 devs have spent (for example) 100 hours each on this. That's 200 man hours. If you charge their time out at $15 per hour that is a sum of $3000 just in their time applied. (personally $15 is very low for the skillset I think but it keeps them in crisps and coffee)
In building this they have killed 4 devices and got it working on the 5th. Thats 5 devices at $650 each (not including tax and shipping I believe)
5 x 650 = $3250
Add this to the $3000 in man hours which comes to $6250. $6250 to develop this!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are plenty of developers that put forth the same effort, and don't "charge" a penny. Time per hour is one way to think of it (and time is certainly a valuable commodity), but also remember that many devs put in the time because they love to do it and don't expect or want to be paid.
Bricking multiple devices in the process makes the cost a little more understandable. But again, other "amateur" devs have bricked devices in their efforts as well. And when I use the term "amateur" I don't mean it as someone with less skill (as the term is sometimes used to imply), but someone who engages in an activity purely for their love/passion of it, not for money.
Not arguing or complaining. Personally, $25 is not a unreasonable price to pay. But I can understand folks that don't like it, or choose not to pay it. IMO both sides of the discussion have valid points, and its just a matter of opinion and point of view.

redpoint73 said:
There are plenty of developers that put forth the same effort, and don't "charge" a penny. Time per hour is one way to think of it (and time is certainly a valuable commodity), but also remember that many devs put in the time because they love to do it and don't expect or want to be paid.
Bricking multiple devices in the process makes the cost a little more understandable. But again, other "amateur" devs have bricked devices in their efforts as well. And when I use the term "amateur" I don't mean it as someone with less skill (as the term is sometimes used to imply), but someone who engages in an activity purely for their love/passion of it, not for money.
Not arguing or complaining. Personally, $25 is not a unreasonable price to pay. But I can understand folks that don't like it, or choose not to pay it. IMO both sides of the discussion have valid points, and its just a matter of opinion and point of view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely mate. Putting a 'time per hour' spin on it probably is a bit off course but it was to illustrate a point more than anything . Your right, most do it for love and its brilliant they do, it just grates me a bit when the minority complain about stuff their getting for nothing (apart from this obviously). And having just done it today, it is without doubt the most pain free S-OFF procedure I've ever done. Well worth the money.

How Samsung/Goodle displease loyal customers with their FRP

I love Smartphones, i do since i had for the very first time a HP IPAQ in my hands. It was back in 2004 and i had to buy a GSM Module to be able to use it as a phone too because by default it was a handheld.
After i sold it, i bought myself a HTC Charmer, and so it started, i became member of this wonderful community and always got help with any question i had. I also found customized ROMs and used them, specially after i bought my first Android device, a Samsung Galaxy P1000 Tab. From this moment on i was kind of addicted to Samsung devices, as yu can see in my Smartphone history i had some non-Samsung phones but soon came back to it. I also have a Samsung TV, Laptop, Toaster, Fridge, Dishwasher, Microwave. The last great device was the Galaxy ALPHA, it was the best device i had, so fast and not plastic anymore, aluminium made.
After it broke i got myself a Galaxy S6 Edge. Unfortunally i had the batch where the GPS does not work but because i rooted it before i noticed, i lost warranty. This really annoyed me because i paid 740 Euro for this device and though i need GPS, the phone was useless for me. I was about to buy me an Iphone but when i went into the shop i came out with a Samsung S6 Edge +...
but this time FRP is installed and for rooting it, i had to remove the Google Account. After rooting it i have to remove the google Account every time before i boot into Recovery because otherwise i will find myself in a bootloop which can only be fixed flashing a stock ROM via Odin, hoping to not get out of battery because FRP does not only block custom binaries, it also blocks charging the battery so if you run out of battery with FRP active and in the recovery-bootloop, you have to bring your device to a technician.
For this reason this was absolutely my last Samsung/Google Device. I know that other ANdroid devices also use FRP so my next one will be again an IPHONE. If the Microsoft devices would look better i would buy me a Nokia/MS because Windows Mobile 8 is pretty fast but they are too ugly.
SO here ends my Smartphone history, Iphone is not supported in this forum unfortunately, and i will miss it but i share the opinion, if i buy myself a device for over 800 bucks, nobody has the right to install me any kind of software which bricks my phone under circumstances. Specially without asking...

Hang on. Let me get this straight. You are complaining because Samsung/Google is preventing you from doing something (which creates a security risk) that you shouldn't be doing in the first place?
Are you going to blame Apple next because you can't jailbreak your iPhone?
They have every right to do that. They don't have to ask. You purchased that phone with the software on it. There is nothing shady about it. It's all about security.
The software doesn't brick the phone during NORMAL USE. If you root and mess with it, then that's on you, not Samsung or Google.

One thing is for sure, it's becoming harder to root and modify phones nowadays to the point where you you potentially have a bricked expensive phone and no way out of it, im not suggesting that the phone comes pre rooted, however by making it more and more difficult they are only going to antagonize people further , even since i first got a HTC HD2 ive been into hacking and modding phones, most of you probably weren't around back in those days on here but for those who were you will remember the amazing work gone in and it was relatively easy to root a phone, in stark contrast to today, why do they have to make it so bloody hard, i really want to root my S6 Edge plus the ads are annoying and nothing works except when you are rooted but no way am i risking it because of this FRP nonsense.

GibMcFragger said:
Hang on. Let me get this straight. You are complaining because Samsung/Google is preventing you from doing something (which creates a security risk) that you shouldn't be doing in the first place?
Are you going to blame Apple next because you can't jailbreak your iPhone?
They have every right to do that. They don't have to ask. You purchased that phone with the software on it. There is nothing shady about it. It's all about security.
The software doesn't brick the phone during NORMAL USE. If you root and mess with it, then that's on you, not Samsung or Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a bull**** response.
Yes, they do have a right to do it... unfortunately.
That has absolutely nothing to do with his right to complain about how the phone companies are getting worse at locking us out, sticking us with bloat, making it hard to set up what we've purchased the way we want to... building in bricking systems is just a scummy move.
Don't worry though, I'm sure with enough people like you even our cars in the future will brick when we use the wrong manufacturer's tires.

i have just now discovered that my S6 Edge plus doesnt in fact have FRP, well after booting into download mode it says FRP off, it sayd "knox void" i did try and root trying the method on here but it didnt work or did it partially work, it;s been a few years since i last had a Samsung, OPO before this and HTC before that and both are different when it comes to rooting.
If it's a case i can root without having to worry about this FRP nonsense them ill be delighted with that.

jackfrost7 said:
This is a bull**** response.
Yes, they do have a right to do it... unfortunately.
That has absolutely nothing to do with his right to complain about how the phone companies are getting worse at locking us out, sticking us with bloat, making it hard to set up what we've purchased the way we want to... building in bricking systems is just a scummy move.
Don't worry though, I'm sure with enough people like you even our cars in the future will brick when we use the wrong manufacturer's tires.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol that's a bull**** comparison. Putting different tires on a car in no way compares to MODIFYING YOUR DEVICE IN A WAY IT ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE.
Yes, I agree with you on the bloatware though.
You also have to remember that only a small percentage of people modify their phones or even know what rooting is, so neither Samsung or Google have any issues installing security measures for the maybe 10% that screw with their phones.

children please stop this arguing

GibMcFragger said:
Lol that's a bull**** comparison. Putting different tires on a car in no way compares to MODIFYING YOUR DEVICE IN A WAY IT ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a great comparison, but I think it serves the purpose... unlocking/rooting is not modifying the device, its modifying the software (tires) running on the device (engine), which is arbitrarily restricted "because they can."
Look at everything you own, and look at how cell phones are different: even if you own them, you can't do what you want to them not because it's impossible, not because it would break it... but because the manufacturers' won't let you, and do a lot to actively punish you for trying to do so.
For some reason people don't like to realize that cell phones are computers with the ability to connect to phone networks. How many computers are locked down in a similar fashion to cell phones?
Stop sticking up for the phone manufacturers.

jackfrost7 said:
It's not a great comparison, but I think it serves the purpose... unlocking/rooting is not modifying the device, its modifying the software (tires) running on the device (engine), which is arbitrarily restricted "because they can."
Look at everything you own, and look at how cell phones are different: even if you own them, you can't do what you want to them not because it's impossible, not because it would break it... but because the manufacturers' won't let you, and do a lot to actively punish you for trying to do so.
For some reason people don't like to realize that cell phones are computers with the ability to connect to phone networks. How many computers are locked down in a similar fashion to cell phones?
Stop sticking up for the phone manufacturers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's funny the car comparison actually. I work in the car business. Your can also modify the software in your vehicle. They are also powered by computers. Guess what? It voids the warranty on the engine, JUST LIKE A PHONE. Nobody is stopping anyone from modifying software in their phones, but don't expect the manufactures to make it easy, or honor the warranty.
It's not like swapping tires. Swapping tires is like putting a different case on your phone, which you are free to do. It's like putting jet fuel into your gas tank because "I own the car, I should be able to do what I want", and then complaining when the engine blows up....
I'm not defending anyone, i'm being realistic.

GibMcFragger said:
Nobody is stopping anyone from modifying software in their phones, but don't expect the manufactures to make it easy, or honor the warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, they ARE stopping you, the only way we can do it is by working around their attempts to stop us.
GibMcFragger said:
It's not like swapping tires. Swapping tires is like putting a different case on your phone, which you are free to do. It's like putting jet fuel into your gas tank because "I own the car, I should be able to do what I want", and then complaining when the engine blows up....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, because tires are required to use the vehicle, a case isn't required to use a phone. And putting jet fuel into your gas tank would damage the vehicle, unlike changing the software your phone runs.
GibMcFragger said:
I'm not defending anyone, i'm being realistic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, sure...

jonny68 said:
One thing is for sure, it's becoming harder to root and modify phones nowadays to the point where you you potentially have a bricked expensive phone and no way out of it, im not suggesting that the phone comes pre rooted, however by making it more and more difficult they are only going to antagonize people further , even since i first got a HTC HD2 ive been into hacking and modding phones, most of you probably weren't around back in those days on here but for those who were you will remember the amazing work gone in and it was relatively easy to root a phone, in stark contrast to today, why do they have to make it so bloody hard, i really want to root my S6 Edge plus the ads are annoying and nothing works except when you are rooted but no way am i risking it because of this FRP nonsense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i remember the old days, and you are right!

Thread closed.
Nothing good could come from this.
Regards,
The_Merovingian
Forum Moderator