Develop Bugs

Why WP7 is 'failing'.

Or rather, not doing as well as I feel it should. This is just my opinion.
The answer is whiny developers.
From the beginning, all we've heard is 'MS didn't release this API, that's why we don't have x app by y developer'. And then time and again, so small time devs give us their version of the app mysteriously not needing said API to make it happen. Sometimes, it's even Microsft themselves shooting WP7 in the foot.
I'm no dev myself but doesn't it seem strange to you that:
1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
And the list goes on. Makes you wonder if:
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
Smooth transitions and a badass UI only take you so far.
MS needs to step-up their integration as well while I'm on my soap box. WP7 really does need to be better than WM6.5 in every way except stylus support IMHO.
Sorry to any I may have pissed off with this rant but I'm jetlagged and bored right now.
Have a good day.

I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)

I don't think it is failing, its just loyal WM users are hedging about a purchase (including me) because there's not a lot that they can do with the device as of this time. I personally think MS-Nokia partnership bodes well for the platform. I imagine Nokia porting a lot of their excellent apps to the WP7 platform (OviMaps using Bing data anyone? for all i care they could just use the ovimaps platform, its good as it is). I personally think its exciting and I'm looking forward to a Nokia device running WP7.

I guess it all depends on what your looking for. I dont need google maps, the preinstalled one works for me. I call/text/email all my friends or see them weekly so I could care less for facebook. I twitter a little bit but the apps in the market are sufficient. I keep my phone on vibrate most of the time but I guess it would be nice to use on sundays.
The only part thats needs some improvements to me are the browser, multitasking and I would love a remote desktop app. Thats the 3 things from android that I miss.

otech said:
I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)
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Don't get me wrong otech, I put the 'failing' in quotation marks for a reason.
I know it's doing a lot better than most expected. I just get pissed when I got to trollish blogs like engadget and see the hate spewed. I have no real loyalty to MS, just loyalty to quality which WP7 is.
It just annoys when devs say such and such can't be done, yet it is being done already.
ROI is a cop-out as they can simply make ad-based games or apps. Don't some apps make more money in Zune marketplace compared to Android marketplace?
Yet Android market share is humongous. And why do they feel the need to also publish some snide comment about how they just can't develop for WP7 because the interest isn't there? It just re-enforces my view that these devs are whiny brats.

Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.

failing?
lol, more and more of my friends are now useing wp7 phones..

I don't really see why we need conspiracy theories where there are simpler explanations.
The main problem with satnav apps is that they cannot be ported simply because there's no native code access. Sygic or TomTom or whoever will need to create and maintain a completely separate fork, with almost nothing being reused between their WP7 and all other versions. That's expensive, and with WP7's tiny userbase it just doesn't make any sense. It's very similar for hardcore games.
Microsoft could finance these projects, but for some reason they chose not to. One of the reasons may be that operators are quite happy selling their solutions for subscription. Navigon already did a satnav app for WP7, but they don't distribute it themselves.

1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
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Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
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Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
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The game sucks
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
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read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
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You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
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SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
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how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
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What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading

There is some confusion in this thread over Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.
Yes, Windows 8 will be capable of running on an ARM processor. No, it does not make sense for a full blown OS to be running on your phone, even if it can, because it doesn't make a for a good small touchscreen experience. There would always need to exist two different marketplaces.
I have not heard anything more than speculation on Windows Phone 8. But I am certain that if and ever in the near future MS were to launch WP8, it would all be part of the same ecosystem. It would be suicide in this market not to continue compatability. Obviously at some point there will need to be a cut off in forward compatability, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Not soon enough to start regretting a WP7 purchase.

Vintage144 said:
Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
The game sucks
read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading
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Are you serious or did you just want to troll/have no reading comprehension skills?
1/. I'm not a delivery truck driver but I was trying to make my way around Germany last week and needed turn by turn navigation while trying to find a restaurant in town to eat at. I wonder what would've helped out...? Oh yeah!! Working maps outside of the US that provided voice guidance.
2/.This was about how WP7 is supposed to be FB integrated yet the apps are better on both IOS and Android. And I'm sorry you don't have friends to talk to from time to time that would make FB chat on your cell an asset since it's blocked by most offices.
3/. The issue of the whole article is devs. Not the quality of the games. Learn to read!!
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
5/. You really are a moron to not see the advantages of google voice. I have unlimited everything on my plan but that does me no good when I'm overseas, something I doubt you will ever have happen to you as I doubt people want your brand of ignorance exported.
6/. All capslocks sentences get no response.
7/. I don't think you're a dev if that's what you're implying.
8/. This makes no sense. I've never been on ATT. I don't like Android as it's a clone of 2 OS, wm 6.5 and IOS and the only other OS I've used extensively is Symbian besides wm6.5. Don't assume because you end up looking like an ass in the process.
My points are valid, devs have behaved like brats with WP7. Which has less limitations that IOS did back in the day yet they worked wonders for that OS.

lekki said:
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
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I did a search for "Touchexplorer" and Touch Explorer" in the market and didn't find any results.

rhory said:
Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.
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This seems quite a silly argument. Anyone with any knowledge of Microsoft history would know that it is highly unusual for them to break from a legacy platform. WP8 is likely simply be a natural iteration on the WP7 system.
To my knowledge MS has done exactly 2 legacy breaks in it's history. NT and WP7 that's it every other OS they've developed has been a evolution rather than a revolutionary break.
WP8 will just be WP7 with the NoDo and Mango updates might get some additional interface customization but I suspect it will be able to run on current WP7 handsets.
That's just the way MS does stuff. The hard compatibility break between WM6.5 and WP7 is just not business as usual for MS.
I think it's highly unlikely that any app written for WP7 won't work on WP8 when it finally materializes.

IMHO windows phone is like the iphone now. Wp8 will not kill wp7. It will be the same ecosystem and all users will be able to upgrade. Wether will it run or not on old devices i dont know but i dont think its reasonable to say they will kill everything they´ve done with wp7 next year. Windows Phone is not like Windows mobile. Forget the old microsoft. Things are different and better now (god bless competition).

Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.

I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.

pillsburydoughman said:
I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.
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I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.

I wouldn't say its failing but the OS is still fairly new and its a slightly new experience compared to iOS, S60, and even Android.
As time goes on, with more support and more phones from Nokia, WP7 should gain some more popularity.

lekki said:
I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.
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Sorry your reply makes no sense.. and I quote
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
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Nobody cares why you bought WP7, I can only assume you bought it because you wanted one. It's not a matter of attack or defending anything, I see no reason why you're bothered that you have to "defend" your decision to purchase something.
Funny how you complain about whiny developers yet you're whining yourself.

lekki said:
Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.
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Even if WP8 will be W8, so what? All current APIs are managed code, applications can be transferred without even recompiling. Since there is no native code access it doesn't matter which core the OS will use.

[Q] NoDo and the Next 'Chevron'

So now that the HTC Arrive has come out (with NoDo installed on it), how long till someone gets one an takes a crack at 'jailbreaking' it like ChevronWP7 did before?
My apologies to ~~Tito~~ for misplacing my thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=12252216#post12252216).
Will be more careful in the future.

you do realize that the release isn't even a week old right? matter of fact make that 3-days. On top of that, the official release for NoDo hasn't even been release.

An old article but I thought it was relivant.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/new-windows-phone-7-jailbreak-in-the-pipeline/11047
Soon we will have another tool to jailbreak our WP7s.. This is suppose to be much more reliable becasue it does not allow Microsoft to re lock the device.
"The tool also allows users to manage their applications, explore devices, create device backups, add ring-tones and sync favorites."
I cant wait to download!!!!

Schaps told us on his page that he will NOT include his jailbreak tool...
Because I was bored getting hundreds of emails from people asking me to send them WP Device Manager so they can continue to use pirated applications, and because there will be a short term solution for homebrews, I decided not to include my jailbreak tool. I respect other developers and I don’t want to be responsible for piracy, I’ve been contacted by Brandon Watson from Microsoft and I wish to be involved in the official homebrew support on Windows Phone.
found on touchxperience.com

Well, the less piracy a OS has the more developers will be inclined to develop for it. If you were going to sell your software and new that on one platform it was very difficult to pirate your software, you would be more inclined to support that platform.

that's not necessarily true, there are other factors beside piracy that a developer considers such as # of users, incentive, etc, in fact i have never heard a dev quote piracy as a concern
but anyway, unlock does not have to mean piracy, it's just business and a way of overprotection to keep the os tight and closed - in fact with chevron we've seen more innovations from our own community than from microsoft, one of the biggest being the instant multitasking

cyclical said:
Well, the less piracy a OS has the more developers will be inclined to develop for it. If you were going to sell your software and new that on one platform it was very difficult to pirate your software, you would be more inclined to support that platform.
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that is just wrong windows as an OS has got to have more software combined then Linux and Apple, also I havent even taken into account the fact that the IPHONE is basically a pirating device, the term "jail break" originally comes from the iphone so I dont know what you are smoking when you say piracy would reduce the amount of developers on a platform.
you need to stop drinking that developer kool-aid my friend

Julien's tool has web server code in it, so it's reasonable to assume he was going to attempt a similar trick that we employed in Chevron. (i.e. No, he likely doesn't have anything that will work either.)

Marketshare, does it matter and why ?

The wp forum is marketshare centric.
What benefits, as an end user, do you expect to personally benefit from if it ever reaches 4%, 10%, or 51% of the market?
Realistic, on topic answers only please. This will not be an android, iPhone, or RIM bashing thread.

I would say dev support, if they see that the platform has a big or growing install base, they would be more interested in makimg apps, games, exclusives etc for it thus customer winning with new goodies with their devices and developers making more money die to more potential customers
Sent from my SGH-i677 using Board Express

ohgood said:
The wp forum is marketshare centric.
What benefits, as an end user, do you expect to personally benefit from if it ever reaches 4%, 10%, or 51% of the market?
Realistic, on topic answers only please. This will not be an android, iPhone, or RIM bashing thread.
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Actually today Kantar reported as of mid april WP marketshare for the US is at 4%, for Germany is 6% for the UK, France and Italy is also around 4%. I would imagine by the end of may these figures will be higher.

ohgood said:
The wp forum is marketshare centric.
What benefits, as an end user, do you expect to personally benefit from if it ever reaches 4%, 10%, or 51% of the market?
Realistic, on topic answers only please. This will not be an android, iPhone, or RIM bashing thread.
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Click to collapse
Honestly I think that a platform can be considered "healthy" for a developer to work on if it's at least relevant on the market. WP users tend to pay for the apps, so we don't need a huge marketshare to get some traction. A 10% would be a nice target, it would show that the user base is alive and well and at that point nearly all of the major app names would be here. Maybe it won't still be enough for every big game developer to consider the investment worth it tho, because high end games are the apps taking most work and cash to develop: for example, Real Racing 2 for iOS took 2 million dollars to develop, nobody would have spent that much without knowing that he could have earned much more than that by actually selling the game to a lot of people.
IMHO if sales figures are right we can make it to 10% before the end of the year. That wouldn't change everything, but it would definitely force people to see WP7 as a serious competitor.

vnvman said:
IMHO if sales figures are right we can make it to 10% before the end of the year. That wouldn't change everything, but it would definitely force people to see WP7 as a serious competitor.
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I really doubt that, things are not looking good
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http://www.phonearena.com/news/Plat...ins-bada-outgrows-Windows-Phone-again_id30215

telep said:
I really doubt that, things are not looking good
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Plat...ins-bada-outgrows-Windows-Phone-again_id30215
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I just stumbled upon this...doesn't look that bad after all, if the figure doesn't include WinMo.
http://www.wpcentral.com/windows-ph...le-us-passing-rim-according-kantar-worldpanel

So, how will you personally benefit, if X amount of sales are reached ?

ohgood said:
So, how will you personally benefit, if X amount of sales are reached ?
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More support. Cheaper support. Cell phones are no different than any other product. If you have a larger install base it attracts more people to support the product and competition drives down prices. A bigger install base means more apps and better apps. As has been stated numerous times too many WP apps feel like ports. They do not feel like they were written from the ground up to aggressively take advantage of the Metro UI.
Also there will be more COMPATIBLE accessories. With the iphone people are falling all over themselves to make compatible headphones and stereo docs.
The benefits of a larger install base are obvious.

Other benefits:
* More new phone models. Nokia is doing a good job, but if WP7 doesn't gain marketshare they'll be hurting badly and nobody else will bother to make WP7 phones at all.
* Carriers offering more phones. Carriers try to sell what people want to buy. If people want to buy WP7, then carriers will put more effort into offering WP7 phones.
* Better support for the phones. Too often, if people have a problem with something and they're on WP7, none of the support people can help because they only support iOS and Android (maybe Blackberry).
* Better support for the browser. There are a lot of sites that either don't recognie the WP7 browser at all, or server really crappy HTML to it that would have been suitable for the ****ty IE on WinMo phones.
* More investment from Microsoft. They're pushing it pretty hard right now, but MS is a public company and is driven by profit. If WP7 doesn't make them lots of money then they'll reduce effort on it, which means fewer / lower-quality updates and possibly an abandoned platform.
There's more (Marketplace apps, etc.), but this thread is quite long enough. Yes, marketshare matters

the more marketshare the more profit the producer has, in the end more money to spend on the thing that's produced. in fact of OS, the more money WP7 get in with more marketshare, the more their owner (Microsoft) has confidence and puts money in it and the OS grows, get better, is more worth and so on... that's economy
---------- Post added at 02:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------
ohgood said:
So, how will you personally benefit, if X amount of sales are reached ?
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if amount x is reached the company in this case Microsoft has more room to play with the patents and can sold maybe the OS for maybe 2$ or 3$ each device, instead of 4 or 5 or 10$ that would be good for companies like Samsung, HTC, Acer, they can produce better de'vices, the cost of an device would drop in fact of production, we as users dont see this change in price, but we would get better quality devices, like Nokia does now. Microsoft pays them about 1 bil $ each year to have WP on their devices, and they produce high quality devices i think of the materials not the specs. all is high quality. this device will live long customers would be satisfied and happy! that's what we in the end feel and see. Or they dont have to lower the price of the OS, they can help in other way other companies to achieve the amount x.

I think that marketshare and marketplace numbers are very important to the viability and growth of the platform. You simply have to look at iPhone and Android to see why every developer is working with them. they have the Market share.
It doesn't matter how many of the apps floating through their individual market stores are actual apps and the emergence of malware and virus'. It's about the numbers. It's about marketing and I honestly believe that MS really dropped the ball when they began to market WP and walked away from WM. I've been a widows user for many years since my 1st PDA and felt slighted to a degree when I found out that all my programs I'd bought and used over the years were worthless and unusable with the next new Windows OS.
MS turned out a new OS that had no real market support for it. The previous developers turned away and began focusing more on the larger markets and really haven't looked back. Once the numbers start showing that it's worth their time/money to develop for this new OS then they will be back.
Numbers are very important.

Dinchy87 said:
the more marketshare the more profit the producer has, in the end more money to spend on the thing that's produced. in fact of OS, the more money WP7 get in with more marketshare, the more their owner (Microsoft) has confidence and puts money in it and the OS grows, get better, is more worth and so on... that's economy
---------- Post added at 02:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------
if amount x is reached the company in this case Microsoft has more room to play with the patents and can sold maybe the OS for maybe 2$ or 3$ each device, instead of 4 or 5 or 10$ that would be good for companies like Samsung, HTC, Acer, they can produce better de'vices, the cost of an device would drop in fact of production, we as users dont see this change in price, but we would get better quality devices, like Nokia does now. Microsoft pays them about 1 bil $ each year to have WP on their devices, and they produce high quality devices i think of the materials not the specs. all is high quality. this device will live long customers would be satisfied and happy! that's what we in the end feel and see. Or they dont have to lower the price of the OS, they can help in other way other companies to achieve the amount x.
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So how will you personnaly benefit ?

JohnMcD348 said:
I think that marketshare and marketplace numbers are very important to the viability and growth of the platform. You simply have to look at iPhone and Android to see why every developer is working with them. they have the Market share.
It doesn't matter how many of the apps floating through their individual market stores are actual apps and the emergence of malware and virus'. It's about the numbers. It's about marketing and I honestly believe that MS really dropped the ball when they began to market WP and walked away from WM. I've been a widows user for many years since my 1st PDA and felt slighted to a degree when I found out that all my programs I'd bought and used over the years were worthless and unusable with the next new Windows OS.
MS turned out a new OS that had no real market support for it. The previous developers turned away and began focusing more on the larger markets and really haven't looked back. Once the numbers start showing that it's worth their time/money to develop for this new OS then they will be back.
Numbers are very important.
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Ya, we know numbers matter, but original topic : how will you personally benefit ? Not corporations, not wall street, just you.

ohgood said:
So how will you personnaly benefit ?
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To put it in the shortest form: you get more and better apps, more and better phones. That's how I see it.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I will probably come off as an overly sensitive WP defender so bear with me...
When you say the WP forum is marketshare centric what exactly does that mean? If you mean people come in and constantly ask for numbers and make fun at its low marketshare then we agree.
Nothing seems stranger to me than you posting this. My paranoid self is telling me you are baiting us. Maybe I should not be so paranoid.
Is marketshare important is like asking about a tree falling in a forest. Marketshare is a function of sales. Sales are a function of profits. Profits keep businesses in business. If you like the product and what the business has to offer then you need them to get sales to more than just yourself and your best buddy. The answer seems very trivial.
If I like Windows Phone and I want it to continue to progress and be supported then I need other people to buy Windows Phones.
However, in the case of iOS vs Android that is just bragging rights. People feel justified when the product they love is loved by others. The image we have of ourselves is a reflection of our society. We are guppies.
Now what are you really asking?

ohgood said:
So how will you personnaly benefit ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like i said before, you get from that better position i which is your company a better device for lower funds. more support because of more money to spend on support. i had a situation with HTC on my HTC 7 pro some months ago, the back cover has a color on it, some silver on metal. but the silver paint is going of, i contacted HTc in the UK, and im from Bosnia and Hercegovina, i get two new back covers for 0€! thats where marketshare says something to the customer.
Just think of the situation that would happen with a low budget ZTE china windows phone, or with an lets say even more budget phone. they dont contact you, never! they would not even answer your email! that where marketshare comes in. same with iOS, people love them because you have a company which responds to your device you bought from them. if something is not right you get a new device or yours get repaired. thats not the situation with companies that dont have marketshare! little companies i think. they would not give you such support like Windows Phone gives me today, or iOS gives to their device owners.
and in the end, the more marketshare the company from which you have your device has, the better device comes the next time with more satisfaction for us. with more marketshare, more money for the company, more money to spend to satisfy their customer. and dont get what you else would mean?
---------- Post added at 12:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 AM ----------
ohgood said:
So how will you personnaly benefit ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vnvman said:
To put it in the shortest form: you get more and better apps, more and better phones. That's how I see it.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
right. thats what i said before but he askes again how i benefit thats our benefit, they have more money to spend to get newer things in our devices in the future, more satisfaction for us!

How will I benefit? Not at all since I don't own any shares of MSFT. Would I like it? Sure. I have grown to really enjoy WP7 but I've been a smartphone user since the heady days of the first Treos. Which means I've already been through a few OS's and have had to adapt to whatever suits me at the time. My favorite OS has always been webOS because of its simplicity, multi-tasking and gestures. But it was severely lacking in some areas. Windows Mobile was the absolute most functional OS ever. It could do things that you still can't do with RIM, Android, iOS or WP7 like network file sharing, network printing without any client-based software, remote desktop baked in, and a host of other capabilities. Along with all this largesse came the problems we all know and dreaded: random resets, freezes, looping, etc.
That is the problem facing MS right now, from a marketing standpoint. I don't know the inner workings of the MS marketing department but my hunch is that they're intentionally spoon-feeding WP7 for the early adopters to get a good feel for the OS and rant & rave on forums like this. The stigma of Windows Mobile has to be shaken and the general public is not the best choice to have as developmental engineers. We are. Now that Nokia has been able to mount a serious campaign in the marketplace, people are starting to notice. To rip a page from Oldsmobile, "this is not your father's Windows". OK, so I just showed my age but you get the point.
Going forward I believe MS will have success with Windows Phone. HP has always catered to the enterprise crowd and they've made no bones about the fact that they're going forward with Windows 8 tablets and you know that a suitable phone to integrate with it is not far behind. Maybe not from HP, but MS will make sure that Apollo integrates with W8 and W8RT. Bank on it. From there it's going to be about getting the spouse to try the shiny new toy and telling someone. MS is in it for the long-haul and I don't expect overnight results. It's gonna take time for everybody to get that bitter taste of WM out of their palates.

nicksti said:
I will probably come off as an overly sensitive WP defender so bear with me...
When you say the WP forum is marketshare centric what exactly does that mean? If you mean people come in and constantly ask for numbers and make fun at its low marketshare then we agree.
Nothing seems stranger to me than you posting this. My paranoid self is telling me you are baiting us. Maybe I should not be so paranoid.
Is marketshare important is like asking about a tree falling in a forest. Marketshare is a function of sales. Sales are a function of profits. Profits keep businesses in business. If you like the product and what the business has to offer then you need them to get sales to more than just yourself and your best buddy. The answer seems very trivial.
If I like Windows Phone and I want it to continue to progress and be supported then I need other people to buy Windows Phones.
However, in the case of iOS vs Android that is just bragging rights. People feel justified when the product they love is loved by others. The image we have of ourselves is a reflection of our society. We are guppies.
Now what are you really asking?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its in the first post.

fatclue said:
How will I benefit? Not at all since I don't own any shares of MSFT. Would I like it? Sure. I have grown to really enjoy WP7 but I've been a smartphone user since the heady days of....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, ok.
I thought it would be a fairly easy question to answer. Guess its harder to do than some history lessons of personal preferences and hopes of things to come.
Here, I'll share mine as an example:
More marketshare would mean microsoft acted on clues of what the market wanted, or needed. I would personally benefit by more applications and better applications being developed to provide a healthy competition to ios and android. Their efforts to outpace each others developements would yield a larger field of better, even more specialized applications that work for -me-.
Too general ?
Ok, I'm going to benefit directly from the competition that microsoft -could- put to ios/android, and make me happier.
There is no trolling, baiting, or expectations other than each users personal view. Its just a question.

More marketshare would mean microsoft acted on clues of what the market wanted, or needed. I would personally benefit by more applications and better applications being developed to provide a healthy competition to ios and android. Their efforts to outpace each others developements would yield a larger field of better, even more specialized applications that work for -me-.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not so fast. I'm sure the market doesn't want,or need, 10,000 flashlight apps. I'm quite sure the market wants one, or two, that WORK. You and I could always benefit from better apps, there's no argument there. But I'm sure you'll agree that searching each OS's marketplace for a particular app and having to dig through countless repeats of the same garbage is a waste of time. I'm all for choice, but not at the expense of overlooking some quality apps because I just got tired of seeing the same worthless app after worthless app and settling for something that doesn't fit my needs. Maybe I was too simplistic in my earlier post but I still believe that MS has to hone in on quality, not quantity, to make a dent in the market. It isn't a coincidence that MS issued a rigid set of requirements to the OEM's if they want to play. I firmly believe they want to get this right and let's face it, MS has the deep pockets to go with baby steps.

Anyone tried j2objc yet?

Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.

lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?

lapucele said:
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James

Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.

lapucele said:
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just thought I'd mention as I only heard yesterday, but the newest edition of the app store for Apple is called AppCake for Apple. Apparently Apple is now going about systematically shutting down every 3rd party non-apple owned store including the non so legitimate suppliers of of Apple after market hardware products. That means everyone with anything that connects to an apple product that isn't apple or made by apple is a target. Geeese they don't let up do they? Developers mention that Apple will never be able to shut them down :silly: that they can and will do what they like with their iDevices cause they own them.
Oh and other thing to look out for if you go to Apple/iTunes, is this company Lodsys who are world renowned for being patent trolls who are systematically targeting individual developers for breaches in copy right for, get this......'in app purchasing' they claim that they invented it and are now suing several developers from iTunes (them personally) for using the iTunes supplied SDK for in app purchasing. Apple is doing the right thing and trying to defend these developers but the World IP org and US patents office can't do a god damned thing about it until things hurry up and get pushed through a ballot of senators to have groups like them shut down. Until then they are working their best and fastest with trying to sue as many people as they can! Unfortunately for most its a loosing battle as they don't have the money or resources to fight these bastards so they end up paying up. In an new interview I heard one company claimed it was cheeper to settle for 100K out of court than what it was to commit to defending them selves even though this group targeting them was 100% wrong.
But not meaning to scare you...or anything just keeping you filled in. Me personally I would write them a letter saying 4 words on one line followed by 4 words on a second line "Go f*%# your self" "See you in court" and go seek one of my dad's barrister friends to do it no win no fee. Screw that. I would be flaunting that I have in app purchasing sayin come at me bro
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/04/app-developers-lodsys-back
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/hey-patent-trolls-pick-someone-your-own-size
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/...t-patent-trolls-and-not-going-take-it-anymore

Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.

out of ideas said:
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Research and Understanding
Yes that is exactly what I am saying. To run Apple in a VM is in breach of their TOS and Usage policy. It also entitles them to seek prosecution also; so not just a ban from iTunes. Going by Apples past history I wouldn't put it past them? Although now with Tim Cook in charge of things I think Apple is going about things a bit more differently now? For better or worse (people had their opinions of Steve Jobs - personally I disliked him but did appreciate his success and achievements for what they stacked up to be, personal opinions aside it takes a great person to do such) Apple is starting to become a bit more valued in collaborations as this is what Tim Cook always wanted working for Apple that he was never able to have whilst Steve was the master of the helm. Tim Cook was more about getting the job done and sharing. Steve's ongoing vendetta litigations were not Tim Cooks choice and/or advice. He didn't want such things from what I have read? More recently his involvement in legal matters has been observed as retracted and no confronting; he has proceeded to do these actions as part of Steve Jobs dying wishes and nothing more.
As far as I can tell he wants to nothing more than to get things out of the way and over and done with so that he and his company can move on.
My thoughts on this as an observer in the mobile tech industry is that I think Apple has dropped the ball a bit, and it is probably far too little far too late. However with a company with that much money behind it? There's only speculations about what holds in the future of Apple? They are certainly not going away or going to fall in to ruins that's for certain.
What I mean is that, yes there has been a heap of legal stuff seen by Apple and most of it very negative, but my feeling is that this won't be the case here on into the future, so the likelihood of facing a court for breach of Terms of Use are likely to be very small. I am sure that editing a build.prop is considered a breach of Google's TOS for use of a device in their Playstore?
Suggestions
My suggestion is to give it a try I have had some issues setting up my VM but have got all the necessary resources including all the software. I have just become too busy and it is not high on the priority list at the moment. I wanted to try gain an understanding of how Apple detects it's visitors. I mean iTunes is cross platform Windows and Mac (There is no release for Ubuntu or Linux AFAIK? only Wine type hacks) I know when I visit the iTunes webpage I am automatically prompted to download a Windows installer package. So they must have some form of automatic detection? Being that the likes of Virtualbox uses a shared internet connection I would speculate that you would need to choose the correct adapter settings so that your VM is seen to be a running physical machine and not a able to be identified as a shared connection or virtualised connection?
I didn't get this far as my installation has many issues. I still have the VM though for future interest. Feel free to PM me if you give it a try and don't succeed and I am happy to share what things I discovered in my problem solving.
Understanding Limitations for Cross Platform Mobile Development
As for the porting to OS's I believe there are many offerings around now that provide developers with a cross platform arrangement. Essentially only the UI resources need to change and then that plugs into a framework structure for your application to run in. You compile the code individual applications that are specific to the platform but you ARE able to develop your main code independent of the platforms. Languages such as Flex or Rubi on rails are going to be your best bet from my research?
Things You Should Consider
1. Single code repository
2. Individual application frameworks - compilation of application runtime for independent OS type
3. Limitations are stipulated and governed by what is allow at the lowest possible denominator. i.e. You can only build code into your single code repository that can accessed by the functionality of both(or all) platforms. What I mean is that there is no use building a single code repository that uses a function that is limited on one platform and not the other, another example is restrictions dictated to you by the likes of such companies like Apple. They have a strict guidelines and what is potentially available to you may not be in its context. Just because certain functionality is available to you in the Apple platform and you have even seen it in use on Apple devices does not necessarily mean that you can build and release it. In it's context Apple may not like what you are doing with your app and not approve it.
Your single point of code and it entirety has just shrunk in functionality to both devices now. So be careful and Anticipate what you might think the outcome is for your Application facing such scrutinisation and what it could possibly mean for your project as a whole?
On this note I have heard of developers making scripts and add-ons for their said central repository that allows them to restrict things ats compile time. For instance having greyed out selections in menus and a toast like notification to users like "Sorry this functionality is only available to Android users" and things like that.
Hope this helps contribute towards people considering on such ventures. Do your research. Find out what types of apps have been rejected from being published and find the reasons for why?

lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will check it in next week

Anyone here have developed apps on the Windows Store?

I am a user of W10M and I was very impressed with the development potential that exists in this forum and also intrigued to think there has not arisen some great big hit app for Windows Phone from some kind of collaborative development from here.
Anyone here have no interest making an app to meet a demand like a really good youtube app or something else?
Windows Phone lack of good apps and if there someplace in the world that can change this reality is here, probably. There is so much to do and here are met very skilled people... I don't know... seems like everything is laying arround here, like tools, knowledge, experience, time, computing resources, even the good will, and etc... Let's face it, today Windows users depends, almost tottaly, on the development of people like you guys, just like the Linux community do... it's the only way, I think...

raphaelsolis said:
I am a user of W10M and I was very impressed with the development potential that exists in this forum and also intrigued to think there has not arisen some great big hit app for Windows Phone from some kind of collaborative development from here.
Anyone here have no interest making an app to meet a demand like a really good youtube app or something else?
Windows Phone lack of good apps and if there someplace in the world that can change this reality is here, probably. There is so much to do and here are met very skilled people... I don't know... seems like everything is laying arround here, like tools, knowledge, experience, time, computing resources, even the good will, and etc... Let's face it, today Windows users depends, almost tottaly, on the development of people like you guys, just like the Linux community do... it's the only way, I think...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really, the main apps missing don't come from independent developers, but from banks, stores, public transportation/airports/airlines, schools, etc.
Until market share picks up, or we make enough fuss, they won't see it as worth the time and effort to deploy apps for windows phone.

here in Croatia, for example, we have bunch of banking apps (almost all banks here have windows apps) because we were annoying
for my bank PBZ, we gathered and every week sent requirements for banks apps six months. Today we have:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/mpbz/9nblggh093bh
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/pbzmtoken/9nblggh0f4rr
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/mpbzcom/9nblgggzkjmg
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/american-express-myaccount/9nblggh52jmn
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/pbz-wave-2-pay-sticker/9wzdncrdjzv4
so, dont be lazy. find people who want some apps also, and every week send request for apps to banks, developers... and maybe you got apps...
P:S
here is apps from other banks here:
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/addiko-mobile-hrvatska/9nblggh0k1m0
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/apps/m-zaba/9nblggh0fv21
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/apps/m-zabaps/9wzdncrdt4n0
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/poba-m-token/9nblggh0jxxl
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/rba-na-dlanu/9wzdncrdl8v0

user107 said:
Really, the main apps missing don't come from independent developers, but from banks, stores, public transportation/airports/airlines, schools, etc.
Until market share picks up, or we make enough fuss, they won't see it as worth the time and effort to deploy apps for windows phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, sorry I have no idea about this fact.
In my experience I see the big majority are shytty unofficial apps and unofficial clients for the big apps we don't have a official version yet, this big majority apps comes from individual developers or small software houses, and the official versions are kind of shytty too, because all lacks of important features, this is what actually we have at our disposal: a bone to the dogs, the leftovers, this is what they have to offer to W10M users. My point is: if we want to have something really good, this will have to come from us, because we are the only people who actually cares with this O.S.

dxdy said:
here in Croatia, for example, we have bunch of banking apps (almost all banks here have windows apps) because we were annoying
for my bank PBZ, we gathered and every week sent requirements for banks apps six months. Today we have:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/mpbz/9nblggh093bh
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/pbzmtoken/9nblggh0f4rr
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/mpbzcom/9nblgggzkjmg
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/american-express-myaccount/9nblggh52jmn
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/pbz-wave-2-pay-sticker/9wzdncrdjzv4
so, dont be lazy. find people who want some apps also, and every week send request for apps to banks, developers... and maybe you got apps...
P:S
here is apps from other banks here:
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/addiko-mobile-hrvatska/9nblggh0k1m0
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/apps/m-zaba/9nblggh0fv21
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/apps/m-zabaps/9wzdncrdt4n0
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/poba-m-token/9nblggh0jxxl
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/rba-na-dlanu/9wzdncrdl8v0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude... I'm not lazy... at all my friend... Maybe you don't get what is my point here, I don't want make a fuss like a children begging for something, I want more, we deserve dignity and respect too... The fuss was made already along the years, and we have not been heard, they just shut up us with a pacifier, some diversion to take our attention... until today we don't have even a good FB app, we have a official app but it don't have live streaming and video calls on FB messeger, we always have less then the others plataforms. Linux is the example for us here, they are by himself and they are going well. We have to send a message with a really good big hit app like Youtube or something else...

raphaelsolis said:
I don't want make a fuss like a children begging for something, I want more, we deserve dignity and respect too... The fuss was made already, along the years and we have not been heard, they just shut up us with a pacifier, some diversion to take our attention...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you familiar with the idiom "The squeaky wheel gets the oil"?

user107 said:
Are you familiar with the idiom "The squeaky wheel gets the oil"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's new to me. I'm not familiar with english idioms, but I get it...
Like I said, we squeak for a long time and no one seems to care about... They doesn't oil this squeaky wheel, they just make a palliative repair to temporarily stop our noise. They seems not interested in take action to solve the problem once and for all.
My point is: if we could make this great free app (wich we will not do, I know), it will make their irresponsibility with us something embarrassing to then (Google and Microsoft), worldwide. That would be a big squeak.
I wanted a awesome Windows 10 Mobile experience. That is what we paid for, and that we deserve, like the others plataforms are getting.
Big companies (Facebook, Google) are just rich, stupid and cocky... today they are only interested in profit. They are faceless money-sucking parasites who don't care nothing about the users needs from a minor low-profit plataform. We are just a problem to cover up.
But we in other hand (me, at last), have pride. We are enthusiasts and care about this. and we should take care of this situation, that's what I think...

raphaelsolis said:
My point is: if we could make this great free app (wich we will not do, I know), it will make their irresponsibility with us something embarrassing to then (Google and Microsoft), worldwide.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's wishful thinking, but we (independent developers) simply do not have access to necessary APIs to develop third-party apps.
Many things can be taken care of through the browser, but still that is not enough in some instances (like my city's public transport system).
Again, you won't do much just ranting here.
You must harass them (facebook, google, etc) daily if necessary.

raphaelsolis said:
Big companies (Facebook, Google) are just rich, stupid and cocky... today they are only interested in profit. They are faceless money-sucking parasites who don't care nothing about the users needs from a minor low-profit plataform. We are just a problem to cover up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Businesses must care about profit first, for the owners and shareholders. That's a whole idea about business; otherwise please refer to the "communism" or other "-isemes"...
raphaelsolis said:
But we in other hand (me, at last), have pride. We are enthusiasts and care about this. and we should take care of this situation, that's what I think...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Pride" will not cover your time/money/other expenses. You should say "thanks" (in the opposite meaning of this word ) to the M$ who just screwed up a good platform.
Nobody wants to spend money to W10M anymore; there are no W10M jobs on the US market (at all!), many big companies are stopped WP/W10M support at all like Amazon etc. Indie devs are not happy too: if you have good idea, you may earn much more by developing to the other platforms (but you should spend same resources).
P.S. BTW, for your OP: I do have a good apps and games in the store (a lot of) and I always provided my development skills to the community (when I have the time of course)

OK. I gave the shot because here seemed to be the birth place of amazing Android mods like the cyanogenmods and some Windows Hacks... I thought app development for this guys was a child's play.
And, just to make clear about the APIs, I insisted in Youtube App because I know the paid app Metro Tube and seemed possible to do.
But you are totally right, it's wishful thinking...
Thanks for attention.

sensboston said:
Businesses must care about profit first, for the owners and shareholders. That's a whole idea about business; otherwise please refer to the "communism" or other "-isemes"...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but not related. Big companies (Google and Facebook) started operations totally focused in offer something cool to users and make money in consequense. Have the users was to whole point. Now they have all the users of the whole world and it changed his attitude and can (stupidly) ignore who are not interesting for them, even if the reason for that is low-profit (but still profit, not a loss), for that I think they are cocky now. That is why I wrote "today" in that sentence. Today is another reality.
sensboston said:
"Pride" will not cover your time/money/other expenses. You should say "thanks" (in the opposite meaning of this word ) to the M$ who just screwed up a good platform.
Nobody wants to spend money to W10M anymore; there are no W10M jobs on the US market (at all!), many big companies are stopped WP/W10M support at all like Amazon etc. Indie devs are not happy too: if you have good idea, you may earn much more by developing to the other platforms (but you should spend same resources).
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Pride certainly will not cover. That is why I brought Linux like an example to follow. They work for themselves to serve all the community. Who have the knowledge helps and I believe you will did the same if a project like "W10M Free Youtube App" existed. This seemed our reality from now on...
Nice Apps by the way...
Thats why I want to emphasize: if we want start to reverse this scenario we have to start make something big by ourselves. W10M need apps to raise his market share? let's make the apps... by ourselves.
I believe if W10M show signs of growth it can grow exponentially when companies start to notice this.

raphaelsolis said:
Yes, but not related. Big companies (Google and Facebook) started operations totally focused in offer something cool to users and make money in consequense.
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He-he, I wish to live in your world but "I'm too old for this sh&t" (c)
raphaelsolis said:
That is why I brought Linux like an example to follow. They work for themselves to serve all the community.
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Linux is a different kind of story; by the way, if you'll try to get help from a linux gurus or other kind of open source nerds like ffmpeg guys by the similar way (I mean your opening post), don't get too upset, usual "RTFM" will be a most decent word
Also, apps are created not by "we" or "let's make". The correct question should sounds like: "I created an ultimate youtube app, the sources are located at the https://github.com/blah-blah-blah. Anybody wanna get a try or join development?"...
People usually do what they are like to do; looks like everybody are happy with the youtube mobile site via Edge, as I am.

sensboston said:
He-he, I wish to live in your world but "I'm too old for this sh&t" (c)
Linux is a different kind of story; by the way, if you'll try to get help from a linux gurus or other kind of open source nerds like ffmpeg guys by the similar way (I mean your opening post), don't get too upset, usual "RTFM" will be a most decent word
Also, apps are created not by "we" or "let's make". The correct question should sounds like: "I created an ultimate youtube app, the sources are located at the https://github.com/blah-blah-blah. Anybody wanna get a try or join development?"...
People usually do what they are like to do; looks like everybody are happy with the youtube mobile site via Edge, as I am.
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Ok... apps can be created by others ways too. Thanks for your interest. There are always a million reasons not to do something...
Let's do nothing and watch this ship sink... it's the best thing do to.
Can you or anyone else tell me how to delete this pointless thread?