Develop Bugs

Won't we do nothing against WM7 jail ?

Hi Everyone,
I'm very worried about all I've eared recently on coming WM7
No cut/paste
No multitasking
No Storage card management
And a MarketPlace build on the Itunes-Jail-Model...
So my question is :
Won't we do something to stop that ?
Would someone start a petition saying that if Microsoft keep going this way, we'll all move to Android !
Maybe I'm just dreaming, but if XDA display this petition everywhere, we might grow fast and make some noise. It's not too late.
What do you think ?

from what I heard everyone at MIX10 loved WP7, as the majority of people will. We are just bunch of freaks. Even XDA camp is split up, at least half of people dig it as well.

It is high time WinMobile moved forward. Donno if Windows Phone 7 is the way to go, but I think the WM interface never really worked when touch screens came in.
As for opening it up, well I agree MS should make it as easy as possible for people to develop for free. Unfortunately it probably won't be, at least for a good while yet which is huge shame.
MS will want to make money from it, and gain market share and for now that means locked down with Apps Store route. Hopefully they will open it up for free developers in time or they will never gain anything over the options.

Won't we do something to stop that ?
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Don't you think they WANT us to TALK about it, until REAL thing will come out...
It looks like weird advert campaign.
But funny, that people who bought their HD2 were simply fooled.
Few millions there, another there...pure FUN.

Honestly, I'd say there's roughly zero chance of XDA or anyone else being able to change Microsoft's mind on these issues prior to WP7 launch. They thought long and hard about all these things and know some of the decisions will make a certain amount of developers and tweakers unhappy, but really they're focused on creating a revolutionary UX, and to do so they need to control certain things more than before. If you've seen the demo apps from MIX hopefully most will agree it's worthwhile pain for the expected gain.
Microsoft isn't turning it's back on the WM dev community though - the tools for developing on WP7 are excellent (so long as you're already doing managed code at least), and now all free. It's impressive the things you can do with Silverlight/XNA/Blend on WP7.
Richard

Man, i much more worrying about that there isn't a release for the Leo, because it has too much buttons (what an idiot reason!!!!). I bought my Leo for wm7. I veryvery disappointed in microsoft. I going to move to Android!

Man, i much more worrying about that there isn't a release for the Leo, because it has too much buttons (what an idiot reason!!!!).
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..because this is not a reason.
This is game about getting attention.
Very, very strange way of advertising, to be honest.
They are sure, that people will buy ANOTHER 500+$ device just to get their feeble bs. Ridiculous.
(personal opinion).
-------------
I bought my Leo for wm7.
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Name it, lol. This is exactly same thing as Kaiser and its drivers(if there is someone who remember these times - users were told they will get DRIVERS...yeah, right - people did not learn, i assume).
I am not against progress - I am against stupidity and fooling people.
g'night.

pupakota said:
I am not against progress - I am against stupidity and fooling people.
g'night.
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Click to collapse
Well I agree, there is so much available which is good for wm5, wm6 etc but wp7 with new start should open up even more possibility of graphically rich and media centred experience. In theory that is.
Look at the development between wm5 and wm6, hardly anything in how long? Hopefully it will be updating interfaces only for wm7, spb and htc have both realised that people want more eye candy than wm could provide.
I love windows mobile but I like the iPhone package, only because it appears to work. But I wouldn't buy an iPhone because there might be an app for everything, but with wm there's a free app for everything. (Although not when big companies forget about wm!)
If WP7 is free to develop on, using MS tools, then fingers crossed the draw of fast fancy graphics and features will bring back developers from iPhone only apps. No doubt MS will extract their pound of flesh first but hopefully it won't end up locked down like the iPhone.
Then again, there may only be fancy graphics in WP7 and no substance or power left for anything else, but without WP7 don't you think WM would end up being shelved (and where would the little apps go then? somebody think of the apps). Perhaps Android is the future!
Also, why do they hate hardware buttons, give me a D-pad back please! If want to flick my fingers around I'd take up tiddlywinks.

im sure WP7 will be quite a success, you need to remember that most phone users are not enthusiasts like us. What the general public want and what we want are very different criteria. See how popular Iphone is!
I see no problem with WP7 not having
No cut/paste
No multitasking
No Storage card management
there is already WM 6.5 that does have these things and there is no wait until its released because we already have it.
Maybe in the future when no more WM 6 devices are produced we will have a tough choice on picking a new device, or maybe people will cook 6.5 for the WP7 handsets (upgrade with older version ha ha)

There is nothing we can do. Even if whole xda makes petition or something, who cares about some stupid forum where geeks want do to something?
Also, why do they hate hardware buttons, give me a D-pad back please! If want to flick my fingers around I'd take up tiddlywinks.
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Couldn't agree more. Im suprised that they allow QWERTY.
Also where is competition here? What can phone vendors do to make their phone better? Most stuff is already standarized, so there will be bunch of same devices on market.

Personally I think they're taking all of the flexibility and breadth of applications away from the platform and moving towards the pointless "There's a crApp for that" mentality.
I won't be looking for a phone until towards the end of the year, I'll be taking a serious look at Android and WebOS at that time I believe.

MS won't change it's mind no matter what, they are trying the Apple approach, at least we still have Android, too bad cuz I loved WM...

The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).

dicast said:
The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).
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well if they do mess up wm, then think what the combined effort could do with Android instead!

Seems everything nowadays (Not just Windows Mobile) is all about moving towards "locking things down", taking away the control from the regular people ala iphone style... and people seems to just accept it with a smile on their lips.
Companies are trying to control everything their employies (correct english?) do, trying to prevent them to use facebook at work and logs everything they do online... Seriously, what the f^** is going on??? Why not implement internet filters all over the world aswell? Buy the technology from China!
Soon when microsoft have killed windows mobile, android will be the only option for me at least...
Maybe Windows Phone series 7 or whatever they call it will be a huge success, but it's not windows mobile anymore, ok it's finger friendly but the OS will be as restricted as China itself. WM the way we like it will soon be history...
I will enjoy the freedom while it lasts and stick to current wm until I'll switch to Android...

khaytsus said:
I won't be looking for a phone until towards the end of the year, I'll be taking a serious look at Android and WebOS at that time I believe.
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From what I've read WebOS is going bye bye. Palm will be switching to Android. Shame. I never used it but from what I've read it had great potential.
I am indifferent to WP7 till i use it myself. I am not upgrading anytime soon and am waiting for a the next step up from the Rhodium(in all aspects) be it an Android or a WP7.
WP7 will take time to work out the kinks. It might not cater to everyones needs at first but I have faith that it will one day be something only Fanatics and Apple Fanboys will hate. <GARTH>"We fear change!"</GARTH>

@ owziee
++1
Hope that, all of you guys, have signed the petition...
Of course it won't change Microsoft'sMind.
But "Who doesn't do, doesn't get"
It starts there....

dicast said:
The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).
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What do you imagine MS will do if no one buys WP7S? WP7S is the last roll of the dice. If it fails, MS will get out of the mobile device market completely.

Except that it will hardly happen, general public couldn't care less about jails and even breaking them.

I guaranty there will be loads of people who will buy it because they want xbox live and zune on their phones and I reckon I'll join them as I'm getting fed up of phones that suddenly start becoming stuttery randomly, or has bugs that I have to end up waiting for an operator to release their branded version of a to ROM fix because I don't want to void my warranty and basically I don't get the time to endlessly flash new ROMS these days.
But I'll still be hanging onto my WM6.5 HD2

Man.....talk about Negativity...

So I went to ATT and was looking at the focus, and the guy came up to me and said if I needed any help, I said that I was just looking at it cause im gonna buy it later, then he sorta laughs and says "yea you dont want that man" I said why? Then he started to explain how it has no apps, wont be updated, how Android is SO much better, how it wont get no support and how it is a very closed platform, how its too late in the game and will never catch up to android and iOS.
whats up with all this hate? it makes me sorta discouraged to even go for this phone....

Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.

bmazloum said:
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
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cool , and did you played after that with the wp7 phone ?

bmazloum said:
Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
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Greatness.

This also happens in T-Mobile stores, all the time. The people who work in the stores are worse fanbois than some of the people on this forum, and will lie and cheat you out in an attempt to sell you an Android phone.
I have noticed an incredible amount of bian in Android's favor when it comes to the CSRs in T-Mobile stores. I didn't notice much of that in AT&T stores, TBH, but when I'm "shopping" I'm usually rude and make sure I get the point across that I "Don't need help... Stay the hell away from me..."
Cause I don't trust any of those crooks.

bmazloum said:
Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
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Major props! XD Damn I need to do this at some point!

solidkevin said:
Then he started to explain [...] how it is a very closed platform
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Unfortunately he is so right.
The more I use WP7 the more I realize how MS (probably fascinated by the iPhone commercial success) decided to stupidly mimic the iPhone: locked OS, no flexibility, no openness, no freedom, no USB drive, no file explorer, no way to import documents.... Only restrictions and limitations
I wonder when people here will open their eyes?

With Xbox live in the phone I 100% want the phone closed. I don't miss it being open anyway, if you need the os to be open it is easy enough to choose an android phone.

i do see that it is locked down and closed. given my experience with the openness of WM6.5, i'm glad that it is a bit more controlled. It's still early days and it's really hard to judge what MS will do with the platform. MS needs to satisfy their OEMs as well as the end users, and who knows where things go with WP7.
But do you want to know the difference between MS and Apple though in all this? MS are actually willing to work with homebrew'ers, rather than try and sue everyone who tries to go outside of what their grand master plan is (Apple). We shouldn't really pass judgement till the platform matures a bit more. Perhaps this time next year we will know where MS really stands.
The reason for the closeness and control is to avoid all the fragmentation that WM and Android experience. All the Android people will say, but 70%+ are on 2.1/2.2... which may be true, but given it a few more years where people won't go out and rush to get new phones and you have everything ranging from 1.5 to whatever they'll be at then, and OEMs/carriers don't roll updates to old devices. At least with the Apple approach, you're going to be supported longer than the OEMs/carriers would have.

root beer said:
With Xbox live in the phone I 100% want the phone closed. I don't miss it being open anyway, if you need the os to be open it is easy enough to choose an android phone.
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Indeed, I certainly should have chosen Android. Honestly.
My weakness is that I'm a loyal customer. I always had WM6.5 devices, no Android, no iPhone.
But acually I did not expected the OS would be so limited and locked. It has never been MS' philosophy.
I am still very surprised to see that several xda members accept to be tied to a PC, tied to Zune.
Anyway, you cannot criticize if the guy in the shop tells you how much WP7 is locked. Because it's actually true, and potential customers should know.

Wp7 Xbox LIVE is a absolute joke. Wow I can edit my Avatar, and get some cheesy gamer points. Its partial Xbox LIVE at best.
I was expecting so much more.

arturobandini said:
Unfortunately he is so right.
The more I use WP7 the more I realize how MS (probably fascinated by the iPhone commercial success) decided to stupidly mimic the iPhone: locked OS, no flexibility, no openness, no freedom, no USB drive, no file explorer, no way to import documents.... Only restrictions and limitations
I wonder when people here will open their eyes?
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Click to collapse
If a salesman was to tell me that I would say "SWEET!" and proceed to immediately check out with it...hmmmm....come to think of it, that actually did happen! lmao
I much prefer the closed system approach and would have that Android salesman buying a WP7 phone.

So From what I gather from this thread, you should go for WP7 if you want updates and streamlined experience, but Android if you want openness and more features but you may or may not get updates?
Im very conflicted here as I am a heavy android user and I do find that it can lag at times and its very annoying that I dont get the updates as soon as they come out, but imo the pros outweigh the cons in Android, I love how I can just connect it in USB mode and copy files, how I can use any Mediaplayer to copy my music (mediamonkey), and other little things, I really think I'd miss those features on WP7, especially the USB mode, BUT man its a beautiful OS and I would love to get updates as they come out, not a year later or even at all.
Very conflicted here, I really like the Focus but WP7 is in its very early stages and combine that with the SD Card issue, Im a little hesitant, on the other hand the Moto Olympus should be coming very soon and it looks to be great hardware wise....
argh.

vetvito said:
Wp7 Xbox LIVE is a absolute joke. Wow I can edit my Avatar, and get some cheesy gamer points. Its partial Xbox LIVE at best.
I was expecting so much more.
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what exactly were you expecting? games are slowly coming into place and sure a lot of them are ports from iPhone, which is expected. As for xbox live integration, you get all that is expected from the xbox equal, that is seeing achievements, seeing/messaging friends, and the game splotlight. on the xbox you get additional things such as the music/video market place which zune provides. so what exactly does it not have which you were expecting? maybe recommend it on the future updates thread as part of missing features?

solidkevin said:
So From what I gather from this thread, you should go for WP7 if you want updates and streamlined experience, but Android if you want openness and more features but you may or may not get updates?
Im very conflicted here as I am a heavy android user and I do find that it can lag at times and its very annoying that I dont get the updates as soon as they come out, but imo the pros outweigh the cons in Android, I love how I can just connect it in USB mode and copy files, how I can use any Mediaplayer to copy my music (mediamonkey), and other little things, I really think I'd miss those features on WP7, especially the USB mode, BUT man its a beautiful OS and I would love to get updates as they come out, not a year later or even at all.
Very conflicted here, I really like the Focus but WP7 is in its very early stages and combine that with the SD Card issue, Im a little hesitant, on the other hand the Moto Olympus should be coming very soon and it looks to be great hardware wise....
argh.
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iOS and (now) WP7 phones (will) have a longer support lifecycle than Android phones, due to the nature of the operating system that runs on them, and the way the hardware spec is controled by Apple/Microsoft. Android users have the option to mod their phones up and [basically] self-support, but that only goes so far, you know, especially when newer android phones come out using conflicting hardware platforms (I wonder who's gonna be porting Nexus S ROMs to Snapdragon phones, etc.).
There is no SD Card issue on WP7. There's an issue of customer expectations and an issue of people having terrible reading comprehension.
If you want a phone with more storage wait for one to be released.
I would not rely on the [rather early] results of people on this forum who swapped memory cards.
Would suck to pay $80+ for a card and have it fail on you a some months down the road with all your **** on your phone, would it not?

The Gate Keeper said:
what exactly were you expecting? games are slowly coming into place and sure a lot of them are ports from iPhone, which is expected. As for xbox live integration, you get all that is expected from the xbox equal, that is seeing achievements, seeing/messaging friends, and the game splotlight. on the xbox you get additional things such as the music/video market place which zune provides. so what exactly does it not have which you were expecting? maybe recommend it on the future updates thread as part of missing features?
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How about actually doing what the name implies. I want real live multi-player gaming. Every other OS has it except WP7. I want the Xbox LIVE experience that we were promised, not this half assed POS. Microsoft had a huge potential with this.

My experience at the AT&T store involved a guy with an iPhone who knew the minimum about android but nothing about wp7. He was a little negative on wp7 just because he wasn't a fan of how the UI looks, but then, I could see that.
Honestly though, my decision to get the Focus wasn't because of some sort of brand loyalty or because of a list of pros and cons. I walked around and screwed with the CSR by playing with everything in the store, and got the one that I liked the most. I have to admit that it was a close competition with the Captivate, and I understand that folk have had a good deal of success in making the Captivates faster, but after having to continuously tweak the bejeezus out of my tilt2 just to get it to be usable, it was really nice to pick up the Focus and have it work, and be fast at it, right out of the box. Sure, that's not gonna work for everyone, but I'm cool with it for now.

I am leaning toward wp7 but I hope down the line some kind of app or hack can allow us to use the phone in usb mode, allow us to sync with other media players, an app that can play divx/mkv files, and jusr little things overall, hope wp7 can do well, just so much negativity I see about it...

arturobandini said:
Indeed, I certainly should have chosen Android. Honestly.
My weakness is that I'm a loyal customer. I always had WM6.5 devices, no Android, no iPhone.
But acually I did not expected the OS would be so limited and locked. It has never been MS' philosophy.
I am still very surprised to see that several xda members accept to be tied to a PC, tied to Zune.
Anyway, you cannot criticize if the guy in the shop tells you how much WP7 is locked. Because it's actually true, and potential customers should know.
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Click to collapse
I don't know why anyone on here is suprised by wp7. It has been reported this way for months and discussed on xda ad nauseum.
As for the at&t CSR, I have seen the same thing at t-mobile and if I was MS I would be a little pissed off about it. They are happy to bash the "closedness" of WP7, but don't talk about the issues with Android (fragmentation, lag of the vibrant).

I love Android but the WP7 experience is very good.
Those who bash WP7 should wonder what it would be like if xda and forums like it did not exist. How strong is the actual carrier support or google support for. Android? Dont think free is actually free. It has a cost too.
To each his/her own but choice is good.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

How can we support WP7 to make sure it succeds? ( and actually gets a version 2 even)

Ive showed my support by getting one myself, most, no, ALL people who have seen my phone are impressed with it. there are also tons of GOOD reviews for WP7 and the devices themselves have received good reviews....so what going wrong? anything we can do?

Open up the API so we can develop more useful applications for the phone!

From a uk perspective, there are 2 issues IMHO.
1) the marketing, not visible enough and not helped by sales staff in carrier shops and online not knowing about wp7 and/or actively selling against it. All the phone shops in my loca mall still have huge iPhone 4 banners in the window and that was launched months ago.
2) if anyone does get as far as thinking about getting a wp7, they come to a site like this to research it and are immediately greeted by loads of posts about wp7 being crap because you can't sync with outlook 1995 via a piece of string attached to a commodore PET running dos 1.0, and WP7 being crap cos you can't load custom roms etc.
I like wp7 and I want Microsoft to fill the gaps with the missing features, what concerns me is that if all the negativity results in poor sales, MS will have less incentive to spend money on the platform. We have to "evangelise" with positive posts on forums like this highlighting the many good features of the platform, and where we criticise, it should be constructive. I have used all the main mobile OS's, I think wp7 has the most promise and am proud to say I am a fan.

you are spot on! the UK marketing is EXTREEMLY poor and whats with 8GB?? how can we make MS take notice of whats really going on over here in the UK?

I havev16gb on my hd7, I don't use it all (only 4th at the mo).

go into t-mobile stores and tell the reps how much you like it. It seems like T-Mobile employees have been instructed to be anti-WP7. The 3 stores I went to to buy a case, screen protector, and the phone itself all seemed to bring up the problems with WM 6.5 when I was looking at the phones.
All of them were also surprised that I liked the phone alot and couldn't believe I used to have a nexus one and then a vibrant. When I bought the phone the sales rep kept trying to talk me out of it also. I've also seen plent of people posting the same comments about t-mobile here on this forum.

What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding

One of the things I find disheartening is the misunderstanding that 7 can't do something just because the 6.5 way to do that job can't be copied over. Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
To reiterate what has been said already, those of us that have actually used 7 need to get out there a lot more and help answer questions and concerns, especially when they're just flat-out wrong or based on misunderstanding. If anything, that's what's gonna help with understanding of adoption of the platform.
As far as success goes, though, I don't really see any need for worry. MS is obviously expressing a serious desire to compete here, and is laying out the resources to do it right. They did it with the Xbox when folk thought they were crazy and couldn't possibly break into that market, and they're coming in fierce with 7 now.
At this point, we only need to be honest. Let it be known what you like and dislike, and help folk around you to make informed decisions.
Also, have lots of fun playing with the things. People respond well to information, but a smile is also very telling, and infectious.

FL5 said:
Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
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That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.

jeffgeno said:
That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.
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I like how you dismissed everything pertinent in that post to pick out that one part to whinge about, managing to both miss the point entirely and not contribute to the topic.
That being said, I guess I need to look into how to back up SMS. Not something I usually worry about, as I view SMS as disposable data (and partly because winmo got me used to having to clear SMS to prevent lag. Not really relevant anymore, I suppose), but it might be handy info in case I need to answer a question.

Buy games and apps on the marketplace. If this phone is going to survive we need developers writing quality apps. When you do download an app/game rate it and leave comments. Even if the app/game is free let the developer know there's interest in it.

this thread is a repeat of before... but as i said before... the best way to get people into windows phone is to let them use yours. i've shown my phone to a lot of my friends and all of them really like it. a lot of them iPhone users. let them play with your phone, the messaging, email, even facebook app. it's a risk to you cause they could do stuff to your wall but in the end it shows them what it's like. sure, they're not rushing out to buy it now, but at least it's now in their sights and they can think whether they'll stick with the sea of icons, or have a river of them (jokes of course, river being the app list... come on MS implement serach...).

It's really up to MS and the hardware partners.
Case in point..the new Nexus phone for Android from Samsung. The prototype for this phone has been around for a while. Why wasn't this also the Samsung's WP7 offering? 16 GB storage and a sweet body.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Focus, but seeing that Nexus made me cuss a bit.
HD7 - screen issues. HTC surround - speakers are a gimmick and again, lousy screen - compared to the S-Amoled of the Focus. Kick ass hardware is a must.
MS needs to get on the ball and get updates out fast and regular. They have to keep WP7 users interested and invested. That means better communication with us. Let us know in no uncertain terms what is being worked on and it's progress.
If people are confident that MS will keep upgrading/updating the OS, they will jump on board.
Get those missing features into the OS. Roll out those performance enhancements - for God's sake fix the issues with MarketPlace! It's hard enough to be behind on features, MS also has to integrate stuff that's ahead of the competition.
Advertising - the ads for WP7 are not getting the job done. Granted, it's tricky to advertise a brand new OS that's suppose to get MS back in the game while the OS itself is behind the others in features, but there is a huge market out there that won't miss those features. Show the People and Photo hubs in action..show the FB integration in greater detail.
Of course, open up the APIs. I cannot fathom why this is seemingly not a priority.

WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.

votum said:
WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.
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Click to collapse
Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!

lekki said:
Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...

orangekid said:
I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...
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Click to collapse
you have a point in that the market is flooded with iPod/iPhone which results in more people using iTunes (so it's a bit of a loaded question).
but yea, as good as the Zune is for those that have it, the marketing that Apple does is just a lot better. I think it was wise that MS move their Zune to windows phone. It is a really good peice of software and many find it better than iTunes (on Windows). But of course, if you have an iPhone (or i product) you're locked into using iTunes, as you are with windows phone. So this is why the numbers for iTunes are so high. If that wasn't the case, there would be far fewer people using iTunes that's for sure.

blahism said:
What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding
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there is a npr app in the marketplace. good reviews too.

Conspiracy Theory?!

After seeing this video here, I feel pretty outraged, not at the guy, but at Microsoft.
So, here goes nothing:
1.would you really believe today Microsoft has such weak security for apps marketplace, I mean comeon just https would have been nice?
2.would you really believe today Microsoft knowing all these holes and weaknesses has not done anything so far?
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
Either way, it just seems too dodgy that Microsoft has produced such poor security and has not done anything about it at all. Put 1 and 1 together, and you get the big picture.
I might just be crazy, but well, that's what I think..

Oh please. what a stupid stupid theory. you've wasted your time writing this and my time reading it! windows mobile was like fully hackable and was that a really popular phone OS?

I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?

All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
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Click to collapse
Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
Click to expand...
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So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.

ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so u have not used WM.... great, DO HAVE A WP7 device???

ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm sure there will be a fix for any known problems in the next update! it takes time - cant believe your actually trying to defend yourself! its not a conspiracy get over it.
the moon landing was REAL btw incase you had any conspiracy theores about that too.

vbetts said:
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
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Click to collapse
Wahay! Someone knows what they're talking about ^__^ OP is a total moron, end of thread.

You do realize that WP7 has outperformed both iPhone and Android launches in terms of hardware sales and apps available in the marketplace, right?
As for the security breach - it makes no difference as you still need an unlocked phone to load these apps onto.. Something most people do not have, and the ones that have used Chevron keep having to re-unlock their phones every time they sync it with Zune (or put the phone into airplane mode). Until there is a permanent unlock available it doesn't matter how insecure the marketplace is.
Also, pirated iPhone apps have been floating around the net for years now - most people still purchase the apps. There just isn't any point in pirating an app that costs a buck, especially when it's 10 times faster and easier just buying it thru the marketplace than it is to download a cracked version, unlocking your phone and sideloading said app.

What the.....?
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.

JamesAllen said:
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
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They're running out of things to bash about the OS... Lol... As for the topic, no, I don't agree with a single word you said... It's impossible to make a completely secure OS, and Microsoft can't push out updates every four days to ensure everything gets patched instantly...

Wow this made me laugh pretty hard. You must be new to the smartphone arena if you think that virtually every other platform besides iOS hasn't had buy one, get one free or similar sales for devices.
And you must be a very deranged person to think Microsoft purposefully has security flaws, something that every OS has, desktop AND mobile.
Waste of time. I wish I was a mod so I could edit your post with "No one read this."

Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh

It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.

ameel said:
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mod, please close thread. Op states he was just "joking".
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

Yakkaimono said:
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow... this has really worked out for the iOS and Android community hasn't it?
the more security flaws get unearthed, the more the creators can make it better. The platform has been out for only a couple of months... if you think about the task required to change over to the recommended https instead, it requires both server and client side updates... but even then, that isn't the root of the problem, the root of the problem is in the XAP, so a change in that would still require an update to server, client, and dev machine...
anyways, as said above... "joking" = close.

I believe the WP7 community is a bit different atm than the other communities were when they started out. So I think my "theory" has a bit of sense behind it.
But anyway lets just forget this and close this thread!

wow that's a terrible theory. Companies that make 20+billion dollars in profit come up with simpler solutions to their problems. Like discontinue an entire product line!

This thread isn't even a trainwreck...
The train just vanished.
Poof.
Oh well, at least no HAZMAT crew or evacuations are necessary.

I've read less ridiculous things in the Berenstein Bears.

Sorry to say but not very bright with the conspiracy theory. If you really want a conspiracy theory try this. Why would microsoft release a almost complete os to the public? Free beta testing my friend. You release an incomplete os and you have microsoft fanboys, elitests, and others reporting bugs, optimizing applications, sharing ideas to improve the os, and reporting various bugs that exist, all for free. Real world testing for free. But anyways this is really a waste of time thread. Please put more time and effort into posting threads.

Official: Mango Public Unveiling on May 24th

Just under 2 weeks now .
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-slates-mango-vip-unveiling-for-may-24-in-new-york/9389

does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?

andoridkiller said:
does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?
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I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey

I'm excited to see what they announce. All the features leaked over the last few days are already nice (plus all the Developer goodies announced at MIX), but you know thats just the tip of the iceberg, and they will probably have one or two major things to announce as well.

Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.

Casey_boy said:
I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey
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Yes Developers will get an image to install on there test phones this has been stated several times including at mix11.

vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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The OS is far from dead, and a steady marketshare despite the disgusting drop in Windows Mobile sales shows that. Microsoft is basically countering the complete loss of Windows Mobile market sales with Windows Phone, which can't be an easy task, to be honest. People don't see this. And all the reports I've read show this, aside the biased blogs which look like they were written by users on this site.
But, I do agree with the huge spike coming with Mango and Nokia. Microsoft has developed a steady foundation where many developers have seen the ease in development for the platform. Therefore, once the available apis are there, I see them all joining the platform. After all, they're here to make money, and the more OS platforms they're on, the more potential they have.
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants, aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype. Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.

FiyaFleye said:
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants
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No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
Click to expand...
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Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
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I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.

The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.

Peew971 said:
No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
Unnecessary fanboyism. I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.

FiyaFleye said:
People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.

you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
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Is this a teenage phone? You may be on to something here.
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol.
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So verizon made a ton of different Androids, and sold them around the world to zillions of people. Don't let a single ad campaign fool you. You have to forget about HTC, Samsung, and Motorola to say that. I can guarantee you, it won't happen for WP.
Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
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OMG, the Xbox crutch. Stop it. Microsoft is a consumer failure, and you guys rely on this one product to measure its success.
Also, you know Oracle had to drop 98% of their claims against Android.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success.
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A huge success? Please stop it. The sales have never been great. The HD2 is the highest selling Microsoft phone EVER.
Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers.
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No, the company you praise called Verizon made Kin fail. It had a high ass smartphone data plan.
The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
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It was better than the iPod, it just didn't do as much as the iPod. Zune wasn't a success either. Stop it. Everyone knows it wasn't.
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that.
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Name 4 consumer products that succeeded from Microsoft. Products that don't involve another corporation or OEM, Microsoft consumer products. I'll start
1. Xbox
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
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They got lucky with the iPhone? Sure my friend, lets not go there.

Peew971 said:
- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.
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XBL is hindered by the lack of APIs, we both know that. We're going to see multiplayer the second Mango lands, I'll bet anything on that. Also, the OS can do all it wants, but when HTC and such put horrible quality cameras, and hardware on these devices, it's going to hinder their sales. I've been fortunate, but others haven't in terms of cameras and such.
About Android, they're about to have that success because of their explosion here though, and that's my point. Microsoft needs to succeed on its turf before it can succeed everywhere, same as Google did with Verizon.
And the PS3 might be ahead in lifetime sales, but my point is that now the 360 is the #1 platform afaik... And has been for a significant while now. And like I said about the Kin, I don't think they ever cared about the Kin, just what it offered, and how they could test their cloud services... At least it seemed like it. they released the Kin after development of WP started... Which leads me to believe they weren't in it for the long run.

vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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It's not dead. Not by a long shot..
WP7 has slow adoption rates but it's doing fine. The general public who buys most of this stuff has no idea Mango exists or what it would do for them.
WP7 is a great, feature rich, easy to use and elegant OS. It has what it needs to excel it just needs more advertising and some kick ass hardware like Android has been getting.
Updates like Mango only appeal to the very small number of enthusiasts such as ourselves.

It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs. From that point of view it's dead. Mango will change that. Mango will also make the platform more desireable because it won't be seen as a dead end for so many people, as WP7 currently is with it's limitations and lack of top/useful apps.
If you mean dead by ceasing to exist than that's not possible, not even Windows Mobile is dead yet, if going by that definition.
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO. I think Microsoft would have struggled to sell half the devices they did if they told users up front they'd have to wait a year for a decent feature update before it RTM'd...
The way they view it, trying to justify the current state of the OS with Mango is like trying to justify RTM Vista using Windows 7 as a rebuttal. It just doesn't work, especially when users have months of this clunky user experience to look forward to before they get an update, and lord knows how to carriers will handle that...

N8ter said:
The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.
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windows Live/Massanger whatever you call it will be built in/integrated in the contacts/people tile.
MS is trying to buy Skype, or joint venture, so u will see video call on WP7.5 devices...

N8ter said:
It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs.
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Last time I checked, Marketplace was doing just fine for a platform that's 6 months old. I agree there are gaps in functionality and things devs can't do, but does it warrant the term "dead" really?
N8ter said:
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
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Mango schmango. WP7 won't have any serious marketshare until it gets dozens of devices and worldwide distribution. Even if it were the most functional thing in the world it would still need it, otherwise it's doomed to linger in the WebOS type of marketshare limbo.
Oh, and a couple of "flagships", too.
N8ter said:
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO.
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Why should I be pissed, sorry?

vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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Waiting for this but i'm not holding my breath. With their track record, this Mango update could get released waaay late 2011 or early 2012. Maybe when the flagship Nokia/WP7 comes out with better specs than what is present (3year? old specs), and IF they expand their marketplace/zune support to include my country, with way better apps and games that are worth the Xbox Live logo ( Lunar Lander anyone?) i'll consider picking one up again (gave my HTC Trophy to my sister).

Seriously, this is just a preview. Stop complaining people.
We are going to have everything we asked for!
Messenger, Skype, Twitter and Facebook inside our OS like no other.
Better push notifications, faster, more reliable.
API, API, API and more API.
IE9
Multi Task for third apps(!!!!!!!!!!!)
New languages, dictionarys, markets..
And bug corrections.
What more do you want? Microsoft wouldn't announce something like "Oh, and it download embedded images from email. It's magical!".
Or you expect they to mention something stupid like that?
Wait and try the OS by yourself.
Usually, I'm complaining about MS and their failures. But.. Seriously, they're doing everything fine about Mango. At least, until now.
I bet someone will say "oh, it doesn't have video chat". Screw it. No one uses it. Even the 'Almighty' Android doesn't have it. Guess just now, and just for Nexus S. No one really care. It's just to say "I have it!".
Stop complaining for nothing. Microsoft is doing great!

vetvito said:
^ I can agree with that. Early adopters will be the one's screwed over.
I also believe Nokia will be the only maker of WP devices, if not the only, they will be the most dominant. That is if, they stop their other projects.
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Why? I think the samsung devices are doing fine, once mango has more languages a new major part of the world will start buying the devices. Right now if a phone is not in your native language a lot of people are not interested thus it is not marketed in those countries (half of europe). Imagine these markets which are very wealthy countries (some of the most wealthy countries actually) start to buy wp7. In these countries the design of the software is very important, maybe even more important than the features and if HTC will also design good devices along with Samsung I think they will stay. The people who've seen my phone asked me what it was and if I like it. I say yes, however native language support + multitasking + next level apps (all comming with mango) will really make it a superb platform.
Most guys here are phone tweakers, dont forget the majority of the customers are not like us and if they see some well designed apps like IMDB they are sold.
The reality at the moment is no native language for those countries, buggy features because of the system locale settings, no marketing/advertisement, no possibility yet to BUY apps (yes this is very important for a smartphone). Once Mango drops the word will spread and it will surely count. Samsung who sells a lot of its devices on these markets will see boosts in sales, I can see people being done with android or BB or iphone after those years of the same lay-out, so a change to WP7 will be very logical and if all desired features will be there people will enjoy it and tell their friends,