Related
Ha! funny... most of my colleages in the office carry iphone, if not black berry as their work/personal phone. Guess what, most of their roles are dealing with Windows Platforms daily. As for myself, i am opposite, i am dealing with UNIX platform and the only guy who used HTP TP2 (Which I love it a lot).
They will asked, HTC TP2??? what kind of phone is that?? hahahahahahaha.
Even when i go to IKEA at one time, and happen to snap some pics of the furnitures that I want to buy and then show it to the sales rep, he said oh that a nice Iphone. WHAT!!!! LOL!!!
I guess lots of people out there still dont know what is HTC TP2....so sad.
I guess it is because, iphone does have the reputation and in the market longer than HTC :>
Same here. LOL
I´m sure is not because the iphoney or crackberry, it all depends where are you located.
In America continent those mentioned before has more influence and power on advertising and that´s why everybody wants and almost nobody knows HTC, but if you travel to Europe or Asia windows mobile/HTC is more well known than those mentioned before.
But here is the same, every friedn or co-worker has iphoney, crackberry or Nokia
ON my Universal times back in 2005 it was even more amazing to show off your HTC!!
hahahahahah! lmao
i had a guy (iphone owner) at work ask me if my tp2 was a knock off iphone. i told him yes i couldn't afford to be walled off behind apple walls. so he asks, "what did you pay for it" i told him i wanted to buy an unbranded one for about $700 in may for my birthday but decided to wait and wound up getting one for $300 (plus 2yr extintion to my contract with at&t). he replied with, "why i only spent $99 on my phone?" so i tell him its cuz your iphone SUCKS. i know that was mean but i then explained to him what htc offers with their hardware and how he is limited to what apple allows him to see, use, design, develop, explore, adapt, personalize and so on and so on. he agrees.
LOL, everywhere I go people think I'm holding an iPhone. And since everyone at my school seems to have one, and since I'm known as the computer expert at my school, everyone assumes I'm using an iPhone because it's the "most advanced phone ever".
i am living in China, the mass only know Nokia,but not HTC.
For most people who discovered smartphones when the iPhone came out, they think Apple invented it.
HTC has been around much longer than the iPhone, believe it or not. All those MDA, SDA phones, were manufactures by HTC since 2002! This is why this site is named XDA. Apple introduced the iPhone in 2007.
It's interesting how people call iPhone anything with a touch screen. Recently a relative of my wife came to the states and wated an iPhone for her children. She asked me about my iPhone (actually a TyTnII) and one day said that she had already gotten an iPhone, which turned out to be a Nokia N95.
There are many things that don't make sense in the smartphone world. Most people criticize MSFT for being a monopoly back in the day of the browsers war, but worship Apple who owns every single bit of the iPhone business. People criticize MSFT for being a close platform, but apple and Android won't let you install an app if you don't go through their market place. Apple blocks applications that compete not only with them, but with ATT, such as google voice.
iPhone and Adroid are worshipped for their innovations, but every single feature in the latest versions of both phones have been available to PocketPC users since probably 2000, at least I've been using windows smartphones since 2002 and all of them have had touch screen (albeit resistive), copy and paste, multitasking, MMS, SMS, email (multiple accounts, including exchange, IMAP and POP3), music (supporting a wide arrange of music format), pictures, videos, and you could install any app you want wherever you want. You can swap batteries, you can swap memory cards, and yes, there was a marketplace (actually several) before the Windows Market Place, it's still around and it's call Handango, which also allows you to try he applications before you buy them.
Even phone navigation was available way before the days of integerated GPS, there were many applications available, being TomTom the best known probably. It had turn-by-turn directions, with voice guidance and 3D maps. All you needed was an external wired, or bluetooth GPS receiver. That was before the iPhone was even announced.
It's common for many to complain about the inability to really close apps in windows, but few complain about the fact that the iPhone kills alls apps when you switch, rendering IM impossible, navigation, if you must take a phone call, facebook notifications, etc. I for one always disable the HTC task managet and let the OS handle memory allocation, which in my opinion, windows mobile does very well. Recently a reviewer pointed out (as a negative) that Windows Mobile was running 10 apps at the same time without he knowing it, and I say, that's good! A good proof of a true multitasking OS! I agree that apps should always have an exit button which actually closes the app if you don't want to use it anymore though, but this is an app programming issue, not an operating system issue.
But who cares, let people believe that Apple invented sliced bread and Android will save the world. Ultimately, it's MSFT own fault for neglecting it's own product, allow manufacturers to build, in some cases crappy, underpowered devices, neglect advertising, and forget to refresh the product to keep uo with the times. WM 6.5 was disappointment, and I'm cautiously optimist with 7(not really, it will disappoint). WM has the brain and heart of a smart and athletic 20 years old with the skin of an 80 year old overly exposed to the sun woman.
Ignorance is bliss sometimes. Most people think Mariah Carey composed "Without you". And no, it was not Harry Nilsson either.
Living is easy with eyes closed -JL
The *best* question I got when using my TP2: Is that the new iPhone with a keyboard??
nokiadashi said:
i am living in China, the mass only know Nokia,but not HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is surprising as HTC is made in Taiwan, really close to China. I can understand that here in México so far away but so close to the factory and mass does not know!
Wow!
Mesquire said:
The *best* question I got when using my TP2: Is that the new iPhone with a keyboard??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL
That is a good one
nokiadashi said:
i am living in China, the mass only know Nokia,but not HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man , not only nokia . .
in fact, people knows dopod so well ,but most of them didn't know dopod is a sub company of htc..
anyway , more and more people use htc phones now.
Mesquire said:
The *best* question I got when using my TP2: Is that the new iPhone with a keyboard??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should Apple ever intro such a thing, people are going to assume every keyboarded smartphone in existence is an iPhone Pro clone.
The mass market can be so cute sometimes.
Back when I had my MDA...I had it so tweaked and geeked that when the iPhoney came out I named my device the iWiz (HTC Wizard which will wiz all over the iPhone)...everyone I knew jumped on the Apple bandwagon, they were my iPhone this, my iPhone that...I'd sit back and patiently watch, then whip out my iWiz and change their tv channels or remote their pc, or view movies, etc...and they would all have their jaws drop...and regret getting the iPhone. Now I have the Rhodium...and I just got it so it isn't even really tweaked and geeked yet, it still has the stock rom even...and it is still killing the iPhone. I just have a good laugh over it. I figure while the Lemmings play with their crappy iPhone, I'll have a good laugh when mine actually DOES something worthwhile...and look just as pretty as the iPhone, when doing that worthwhile thing!!
Oh, and for the Droid lovers...a friend of mine has the Moto Cliq...she charges her battery 3-4x a day...I use GPS, catch up on Twitter and Facebook, and make a ton of calls...and charge my phone every other day...and as for the open source bit...any awesome XDA chef can make my windows device "open source" too!!
orb3000 said:
This is surprising as HTC is made in Taiwan, really close to China. I can understand that here in México so far away but so close to the factory and mass does not know!
Wow!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AFAIK, that is because they are still being marketed under the Dopod banner (a subsidiary of HTC), while the rest of the world has moved on to HTC.
http://www.dopod.com.cn or http://www.dopod.com/
fortunz said:
Should Apple ever intro such a thing, people are going to assume every keyboarded smartphone in existence is an iPhone Pro clone.
The mass market can be so cute sometimes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doubtful that would happen - heard it somewhere that Mr. Jobs doesn't like the idea of an iPhone with a physical keyboard.
Yeah, a variety of people thought I had gotten the iPhone when they saw me from afar. Then when they saw it up close they were "what's that" and I'd tell them and responded to their comment that they had thought it was the iPhone with all the reasons I don't want the iPhone. One thing I envy the iPhone slightly is the better processor capable of better video. But that is only slightly as the screen res is so much lower that it doesn't matter in the end cause even with a better video file it will look worse. Plus the new gen of Winmo phones had that CPU beat no questions asked.
And it's amazing how much apple and the iphone have trapped people's attention. My previous phone which I bought in Christmas 2005 was a motorola e680i (white version) and when people saw it they were "is that the new apple phone? I had heard they were coming out with one" because it was touch screen and white and sleek like an imac. The bad thing about that phone was the lack of apps and keyboard.
ANd yeah, no one knows what my phone is or recognizes the brand but that's because in Mexico HTC is almost non-existent. Though curiously the other day I went to one of the bigger more central malls in the city and saw this HUGE banner outside the movie theater from Telcel (the dominant carrier) advertising their new HTC phone, the Diamond (not Diamond 2, just Diamond). Mexico is behind on tech in general. I saw the TyTNII just before I bought my TP2, it was going in the store for about a hundred dollars more than I paid for my TP2 despite the age of the device and inferior specs.
When I went into an at&t corp store in late October to look at a TP2, or a dummy phone, to gauge the size, the at&t drone had no idea what I was talking about, but quickly pointed me to the iphone. I said, no thanks, if I wanted a toy, I'd go to Toys R Us.
Same here in Greece. Htc isn't that much advertised, I'd say that it's starting now though. You just spot a diamond2 here and there and an HD if you look thouroughly. I'm on the go a lot, public transport etc and i have only seen only another one TP2 owned by a teenage girl fyi. However you do spot a hell lot iphones.
Anyway the other day i was messing with my TP2 while being at the subway, and there was this guy that tapped me in the shoulder, fascinated prolly, and was like "Wow dude is this a new version of the iphone, or what?"
And I was like "Dude, google htc touch pro2, and figure it out yourself."
I mean c'mon people every phone with a touchscreen is NOT necessarily invented by Apple! LOL
Ha! It's really lots of fun reading everyone here also experiencing with their HTC TP2 get miss-identified with an iphone.
Thanks for sharing your experience on how people react to our HTC TP2.
I guess time will tell .........
stormrain said:
And I was like "Dude, google htc touch pro2, and figure it out yourself."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So HTC fans are all out orally delivering let me google that for you* addresses in response to questions about their phones? It's a wonder people don't know what it is.
(I kid, I kid)
fortunz said:
So HTC fans are all out orally delivering let me google that for you* addresses in response to questions about their phones? It's a wonder people don't know what it is.
(I kid, I kid)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahahahaa that is so funny!!!!
http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not good
well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things
vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.
jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!
Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.
Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.
It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.
As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.
that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).
To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.
If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.
Sometime ago (months) I went into a Virgin Media store as I am with Virgin Mobile. I asked to see some Windows Phones 7 handsets as I have a HTCHD2 running WP7 and wanted to get a real WP7 phone.
The clerk in the store told me that Windows phones were rubbish and buggy. He also said Virgin are not getting in any new WP7 hands sets as they've moving towards iPhone. I didn’t argue, I showed him my HD2 and went to O2 store a few doors down. Yet again the shop assistant in O2 told me that WP7 were not very good and recommended an Android.
Pretty bad response I felt... but this was around the same time the NoDo update was messing with the Samsung Omnia. I just put it down to staff reading shock gadget sites struggling to make news for their RSS.
The following month, my girlfriend wanted to look at some WP7 hands sets. She went to T Mobile and Orange. She told me that in both shops the staff told her that WP7 was crap and buggy and recommended either iPhone or Android.
So... Today, aforementioned girlfriend went phone shopping with her sister as she is due an upgrade. They went to two Vodafone stores (YES TWO) and asked to see the HTC7 Trophy. Guess what the clerks said in both... Windows Phones are crap and buggy.
They ended up leaving with a HTC Wild Fire as the Clerk said Android was the best OS on the market.
This has really bothered me. It seems that every UK phone shop will quit gladly tell you the windows phone 7 is ****. How can this really be allowed? It is quite intolerable really and it is no wonder the phone isn’t selling as well as it could.
Any average person would be put off by the staff stating telling the phone is buggy and not to buy it.
So, XDA, please try it yourself. Go into a shop, play dumb and ask to see a windows Phone 7 'cos the advert is funny and see what they say.
Same thing happens in US stores, almost since day 1. There is an anti-Microsoft movement that is firmly entrenched, you practically have to fight to get a WP7 handset sold to you. I dont know why Microsoft is not talking to their carrier "partners" but ultimately if the carrier doesnt direct its employees to at least show WP7 devices to potential customer there really is no hope of reversing this trend.
Carriers dont care, OEM's dont care, its basically down to Microsoft to decide how they want to go because they arent getting any support from any of their partners right not.
I hate to post a counter point, as I agree with the OP that this is an issue. However, I myself have not experienced it first hand. There are a few different AT&T stores I visit in the Mpls / St. Paul area in Minnesota (USA) and my results have been quite the opposite (also true in Best Buy, where they sell many different phones and contracts).
I've never been told not to go with WP7. In fact, they've often listened excitedly as I told them what I was looking for, and later what it does (I've brought people in to pick up phones, and the clerks like to hear about my Samson Focus).
It is probably worth noting that employees at these locations have iPhones, Androids, WP7s, Black Berry's... so I'm not surprised they are more accepting of the idea that people should get what fits them best. *shrug*
I must say in Germany Vodafone shop they told me it's really good and the clerk took out HD7 of his pocket to show me.
I had a similar experience in the US when I bought mine. I was debating between WP7 and Android, and one salesman called to another and said, "could you show this customer your phone?" - which was an HTC Surround.
Nothing but poor training. That and some sales clerk will lie throug teeth to sell you a junk phone that makes maximum commission to him/her, not necessary the best phone for you. So, if you've not done your homework before hand, you deserve what you get.
The training is a different issue. That's a business decision the store, the carrier and MS all have to commit.
In my local Corporate AT&T store, the sales clerks are very nice and although they used to push iPhone a lot but if you ask questions about WP7 phones, they never bad mouth the product and give really nice comments.
Have we forgotten:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882901&highlight=tmobile
Has anything changed since this first came up? We will see how verizon handles it but I doubt there will be any love for WP7 from them.
These sales staff are the blind leading the blind. They lie through their teeth and whenever they do I tell them straight its a lie.
They like to push the Iphone as you have to get that on a hefty contract and its an easy sell. Android is gaining mindshare. Not many go out to buy a windows phone - most people dont even know it exists.
WP7 has never gotten a fair shake, which is sad because it works. I hope just WP7 gets Skype lol.
Dr.8820 said:
WP7 has never gotten a fair shake, which is sad because it works. I hope just WP7 gets Skype lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's fair isnt it?
Google is being anal with their youtube support for wp7... so lets take skype away from them
foxbat121 said:
Nothing but poor training. That and some sales clerk will lie throug teeth to sell you a junk phone that makes maximum commission to him/her, not necessary the best phone for you. So, if you've not done your homework before hand, you deserve what you get.
The training is a different issue. That's a business decision the store, the carrier and MS all have to commit.
In my local Corporate AT&T store, the sales clerks are very nice and although they used to push iPhone a lot but if you ask questions about WP7 phones, they never bad mouth the product and give really nice comments.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm, there is a commision gap between xyz phone and the top-o-the-line windows phone...phone ?
do you have any factual data with breakdowns of iphone, android, wp7 commisions paid ?
it would be interesting to see.
In Egypt, exactly in Port Said Vodafone store, the salesman encouraged me to buy trophy and he described it as a wonderful phone. It is strange that a salesman described wp7 as a buggy, almost he even didn't touch a WP7 device!
LOL at your statement.
If I'm the sales officer,of course I'll push the product that gives me more commission.
Just 2 options for you here
1)earn the money for yourself by pushing product with higher commission
2)help M$ earn money by pushing the product with lower commission
I starting to suspect how M$ spent the 500million dollars advertising fee???most probably the advertising fee,ended up by buying their own devices,in order to create a promising sales figure.
From the day 1 of windows phone 7 launched until now,I bet M$ at least gave 200K windows phone 7 to developers and holding events.
To WP7 fanboys,althought you think that WP7 is a good OS,but please admit the downsides.PLEASE...
sylau90 said:
To WP7 fanboys,althought you think that WP7 is a good OS,but please admit the downsides.PLEASE...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One thing we "WP7 fanboys" admit... we getting pretty sick and tired of Android/iPhone/YoMamma fanboys who have nothing better to all day long than to come to WP7 forums and derail perfectly good posts.
Then you have to start thinking why...
I can say the usability of the current WP7 is not that good.Everything have to wait until mango,mango....yo have to know that many people not even know about WP7,therefore they won't even give it a chance.
Furthermore,yea,of course windows phone 7 is smooth,but you forgot to mention that,the smoothness is within native apps and you are using a less features OS on an 1ghz processor.
now the thing I worry is that,once mango is released,our devices will be ditched or burired by M$.According to my experience with different OSes,I don't think1 ghz 1st gen snapdragon processor is good enough to handle Mango.
Back to the topic,please forgive those sales officers,they just want to earn money for their lives.they are not blind or not well-training...they are saying the truth and they fighting for their lives.
If you want to argue with me,I don't mind to share my WP7 experiences here,which is a fair view,but does not seems good.
I must agree that often salesmen don't have a clue what they're really selling.
I even saw some more weird things in carrier's shops like WRONG description on devices stating the device doesn't have the functionality it has indeed.
The "funniest" one was SonyEricsson P1 (Symbian UIQ) with Windows Mobile sticker on it's screen indictating it really runs on WM. I attach a photo! It was in Orange Store few years ago LOL!!!
But yes there is a reason for that. It's "fame" I think.
MS has bad fame, the same with PC. Now Windows7 is able to wipe it out but most of my friends always tell me when I have any problem with PC "get a Mac".
It's hard to fight with such "common sense". It goes beyond knowledge, it's rather a myth and emotions.
But the truth is, iPhone is great in many ways and Android has proven in 1000 ways it's the most powerful and complete option right now. Yes it is the future with so many devices and flexibility it offers. You can't fight it.
What MS has to do is to work work work to create something similar with it's platform. I repeat this again but I honestly don't see anything really attracting customers right now and making them switch from other OS'es in big numbers besides some cases. In my opinion it's not the UI (IMO boring) nor current devices (nothing extra there) nor even Mango, sorry. I may be terribly wrong but I don't see anything REALLY attractive there making people "LOL". People en masse. Maybe I don't read correctly customers feelings but that's how I perceive it. Are you aware that those Mango updates are actually more for Geeks? It's great for us but what about the mass market...
I really think Nokia is THE only possible help here.
+1 to you,doministry...well said.
Yeah sure WP7 isnt selling well here in NZ too, because the way I see it, the public has embraced the iPhone due to its high reputation. I work at Dickies and I can say that at least 75% of our customers have an iPhone, 15% being Android, and 10% being other (blackberry, cheap nokia phones) based on my survey touchscreen next to the counter and some gave a reason why [extracted from log]:
iPhone
1. User - iPhone (reason: high reputation and touchscreen)
2. User - iPhone (reason: ITS APPLE *****ES!!!)
3. User - iPhone (reason: most of my friends has it but I only use it for call and sms)
Android
1. User - Android; LG Optimus One (reason: needed a new phone because the iphone is boring now)
2. Developer - Android; Motorola Defy (reason: i develop apps for android)
3. User - Android; Google Nexus One (reason: because the iphone sucks)
Other
1. User - Nokia 5310 (reason: i rarely use this phone so whats the point of getting a new one)
2. User - Blackberry Bold 9700 (reason: not really into phones)
3. User - Windows Phone 7; HTC Trophy (reason: awesome phone. does a feature that the iphone doesnt - socializing, feels like im more connected to friends than those texts with their names on it.)
So based on my survey, the people in my area tend to have iPhones than any other kind of phones, mostly because the iPhone has gained a lot of attention from the start. Not a lot of people know the differences between phones, all they know is that the iPhone does everything (apparently thats the PS3).
downloaderintruder said:
Yeah sure WP7 isnt selling well here in NZ too, because the way I see it, the public has embraced the iPhone due to its high reputation. I work at Dickies and I can say that at least 75% of our customers have an iPhone, 15% being Android, and 10% being other (blackberry, cheap nokia phones) based on my survey touchscreen next to the counter and some gave a reason why [extracted from log]:
iPhone
1. User - iPhone (reason: high reputation and touchscreen)
2. User - iPhone (reason: ITS APPLE *****ES!!!)
3. User - iPhone (reason: most of my friends has it but I only use it for call and sms)
Android
1. User - Android; LG Optimus One (reason: needed a new phone because the iphone is boring now)
2. Developer - Android; Motorola Defy (reason: i develop apps for android)
3. User - Android; Google Nexus One (reason: because the iphone sucks)
Other
1. User - Nokia 5310 (reason: i rarely use this phone so whats the point of getting a new one)
2. User - Blackberry Bold 9700 (reason: not really into phones)
3. User - Windows Phone 7; HTC Trophy (reason: awesome phone. does a feature that the iphone doesnt - socializing, feels like im more connected to friends than those texts with their names on it.)
So based on my survey, the people in my area tend to have iPhones than any other kind of phones, mostly because the iPhone has gained a lot of attention from the start. Not a lot of people know the differences between phones, all they know is that the iPhone does everything (apparently thats the PS3).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol,the last user you surveyed is yourself?????obviously,the comment is longer.
A few wp7 users i have surveyed in my area.
1)htc mozart: the OS is simple and clean.Of course,it is smooth,but it is due to limited number of features,so requiring less processing power.
2)samsung omnia 7:Love the screen,but the OS is so-so.I can't pause my music on lock screen.I went to XDA site to search for help,but the only solution was hard reset,omg,I spend hours on linking and organise the facebook contacts with my sim contacts.I don't want to do it again.
3)HTC mozart:Love the camera in first sight,but when I brought it home,I was wrong.The pictures have so many noices and camera setting never saved.OMG.I missed heaps of precious shots during my short trip.Furthermore,I shared my experiences at XDA,I thought someone can help or there is some tweaks.Guess what???some friendly users asked me do more research before buying a phone.
4)Lg optimus 7:got it at a low price,don't care about it.just use it as a secondary device.Of course,"wait until mango releases",the favourite quote from XDA WP7 forum
5)samsung focus:love the transitions and animations.However,I prefer these animations put on top on my HTC HD2 windows mobile.
6)htc mozart:Love the solid aluminium built,but the OS??not as good as the form factor.The apps are expensive like hell on marketplace,seriously pacman championship,$ 9AUD????I could buy tiny wings,angry birds and infinity blade for my iphone.
7)Samsung omnia 7: Damn,my phone marketplace is no longer fetching updates.Everytime I have to connect my phone to zune to get updates and I went to XDA to seek for help.The users here told me to do hard-reset.No other solution?other than hard-reset?I'm not here to arguing or insisting that I want a solution for my problem.If the OS is stable,then problem exist.
I spent about 5months,these are the only people I found that using WP7.
Actually I also want to know what WP7 can do that iphone can't,cause I cant even find 1,except the transition and animations.
sylau90 said:
Lol,the last user you surveyed is yourself?????obviously,the comment is longer.
Actually I also want to know what WP7 can do that iphone can't,cause I cant even find 1,except the transition and animations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah that one WP7 is me
umm. well facebook integration has been successful, though the only thing i know iphone does is sync with facebook, but it doesnt list the people as contacts. what else... for xbox gamers, xbox live gaming is getting there, its good that it is really the actual xbox profile on WP7 and gain live points with (selected) games on phone... better office integration.. the zune pass subscription (eg. stream music over the air).
in the upcoming mango update, IE9 will have better HTML5 support. this was demonstrated somewhere i saw on youtube
also you can upload/share photos and other files via skydrive which is free unlike mobileme service.
thats all i got so far
Almost a year later Microsoft will be properly training sales reps on how to use & sell WP7.
http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/07/microsofts-to-finally-educate-retail-partners-on-windows-phone/
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
They should just employ existing users as training won't be enough for many sales reps (e.g. that HTC rep interviewed about the Titan on Engadget).
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
hhmmm
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh
FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ads should be just like the iPhone/Windows 7 ads where actual features are demonstrated. Anything else won't get much attention.
ohgood said:
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.
Peew971 said:
The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....
FTC said:
...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.
FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is the phone is supposed to save us from our phone.
Your idea works contrary to that. Apple markets to that crowd: people who are glued to their phones.
Microsoft's marketing basically states that they want you to buy a phone you don't have to be tethered to. A phone you shouldn't have to use all the time. A phone that lets you get on with REAL LIFE. Newsflash, for a ton of smartphone users (esp the younger generation) REAL LIFE involves being tethered to a phone... Microsoft's marketing failed to appeal that that huge demographic. Apple and Android Ads are going for broke, though... Microsoft Marketing for WP7 seems like it was tailored for 45+ business people, whilst pushing a social consumer-centric smartphone. It makes absolutely no sense...
It runs contrary to what you say. They should have just done it the Apple way.
The big mistake was releasing the OS early. They should have waited 6 more months and released it with half the Mango features baked in. That would have, IMO, attracted a lot more people.
Now, a lot of people have the thought of a half-baked OS that can do basic functions, and it will be hard to shake that.
Also, you cannot really change the Reps' minds. They will probably agree with the trainers in a training setting, but once the customer walks through the door they will push what they prefer to push anyways.
Microsoft's marketing has it wrong. You cannot market a phone to save us from our phones. People can get that by buying a feature phone that isn't pushing everything form every social network or chat service to their phone every minute of the day. Or a dumb phone, even. Smartphones are popular because people can do most things on them. They're popular precisely because their addictive due to how much you can do on it. The nature of a smartphone, IMO, guarantees that you will spend a large amount of time actually using it. To suggest otherwise, makes no sense.
When you market a smartphone that isn't THAT, you're telling people you want to sell them a boring device that won't allow them to get as much done (that may not be the case, but that's how many consumers will interpret it), and it will have the opposite effect.
I actually think a lot of that happened with the Microsoft Marketing.
They need to get front and center in stores like Best Buy. Have displays in Carriers stores - especially i.e. AT&T and/or Verizon (and maybe T-Mobile if they will allow them to compete that hard with their MyTouch and Sidekick series devices).
Interesting fun adds that tell people the phone is fun and they'll want to use it all the damn time, not the opposite, etc.
Really, where Mango is taking WP7 is a complete 180 from their marketing (integrated social networks, facebook/windows live all baked in, Bing functionality that lets you do virtually everything, etc.). I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
That being said, the commercial where the woman fell in the airport staring at her Blackberry was still funny as hell.
Avatar28 said:
I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They will just sell them on Craigslist. You can't extort support from sales reps. What are you talking about. Sales reps are not evangelists, and should not be treated as such (even tho they act as such in many cases, not in WP7's favor). That's clearly anti-competitive, as well. Carriers and competing platform OEMs alike would strongly object to that behavior. It can possibly get them in trouble.
A ridiculously large majority of sales reps are avid iOS/Android users, supporters, and advocates for lack of a better word.
I go into carrier stores all the time and I've had reps in T-Mobile stores especially flat out tell me the HD7 was crap and they would never recommend I get a Windows Phone. Yes, in those direct terms.
Others are so passive that when customers come in with negative pre-concieved notions about the platform and state misinformations in front of them, they make no effort to correct them - maybe they know no better themselves, though.
Ask them to walk you through an Android or iPhone, though, and they have no issues. They'll even tell you how to root your phone and recommend the best home screen replacements, among other things...
Maybe we should all go into carrier stores and record this happening and post it to YouTube, we can start a Twitter trend! Lol, just kidding...
@N8ter
...what you say in your 2 posts above is true... Although the basic concept of Microsoft's idea to "free" peoples from their "phone addiction" is a positive way of thinking, it is allmost impossible to re-educate peoples from bad habits. Social networks like Twitter, Facebook and SMS make people believe that they require immediate attention and reaction in order to be part of the game. It is very funny and sad at the same time to observe people getting totally nervous if they don't see any new messages on their phone for a couple of minutes... Maybe the governments should request to put warning stickers on the phone:Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health
FTC said:
Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMAO, yeah, I agree with what both of you said on this. The problem is most people don't like being told they're addicted to something even if it's a cell phone/social networking site/etc.
N8ter said:
I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.
...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
FTC said:
...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't agree with that... Microsoft don't make PC's, just the OS that run them. But the Windows 7 ads worked because they were showing people what you could do with the OS (the "Windows 7 was my idea" ones). People thought that looked cool and knew what they wanted before going into the shops.
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.
FTC said:
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Advertising an OS is still possible, but the current form is basically promoting a very unclear solution for a non-existing problem. This won't go anywhere.
FTC said:
... This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft can't do "just" that. Ms loves to put long, wordy names on products. "Droid Does" was a brilliant campaign, like the product or not. Can't believe ms didn't learn from it. It displayed the os's capabilities, and gave the customer the easiest one word request that equalled sales: gimmie a droid !
Walking into a store and having a customer be expected to remember " gimmie a microsoft windows phone seven samsung focus - the newer version" isn't going to work. "Gimmie an iphone" proved this also.
Drop the marketspeak, drop the 20 syllable phone phonics, and drop the suits. Apple sold billions with kids dancing with their device in hand. Du huh ?
Androids sell because -everyone- recognizes the name and google. That, and there are 30 to choose from at the stores. Names like g1, g2, nexus, bionic, thunderbolt... no one cares who made it, or embellishments in wordy names.
Peew971 said:
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...I don't know if in the UK you get your load of Apple TV-spots for the iPhone as we do in Germany: "If you don't have an iPhone, you don't have an iPhone..." It shows the actual phone and what you can do with it. This is what matters and this is "hard selling"... If Microsoft does something similar (as they are still doing), it shows nicely what you can do and how simple it is, but it is not backed up by some specific devices. With Apple, the consumer knows he has to ask for an iPhone, with WP7 he has to ask for a vague "Windows Phone" .... For Android, the makers advertise their specific models but are not talking about "Android Phone"... And this is the big difference which really matters...
You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
Some examples:
vangrieg said:
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know exactly what they meant. I don't any explanation.
The fact and the matter is that it flew over people's head and that message was so vague that it was basically ignorable.
Also, the ads were not attention grabbing at all.
This is great Advertising, IMO. It totally grabs your attention and gets the point across. It gets right to the point, and it doesn't feel like it drags on forever. It's hillarious, too.
See here:
The Microsoft Ads were nothing like that.
Peew971 said:
You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got your point and you're wasting your time even bothering with responding to that other person. It was obvious.
WP7 is similar to iOS in that hte launch devices all used extremely similar hardware configurations. Microsoft could have marketed it like an iPhone and every ad would have been legit.
The crap about "Microsoft is marketing an OS, Apple is Marketing a phone" doesn't fly. WP7 is not Android. Microsoft dictated the launch device specs so tightly that they were all basically the same thing. The user experience on literally all those phones were pretty stock and unmodified.
Hi fellow WP7ers,
This kind of ignorance doesn't usually bother me, Windows Mobile was ignored continuously, despite it being one of the most important advances in phones ever. However I can't help but name and shame the two particular staff I came into contact to in Phones 4 U in Lincoln city centre, Lincolnshire, UK.
I was shopping with my mother, she wanted a new phone (an iPhone, but who can blame her these days). I thought it would be a great chance to see the new WP7 phones in action. I suggested that they compare WP7 and the iPhone, to give it a fair chance, she had already tried Android, and like many, she found it far too busy and complicated. My request was immediately met with a blank stare.
The salesperson, confused by the words 'windows phone', asked another female salesperson for assistance. He then explained that he and his colleague had both been given a free WP7 (I assume in an attempt to help them sell the phones). He had never even turned his on. A phone salesperson who had never used or tried to use a WP7 device, rather sticking with his iPhone like the sheep he was.
The girl used her WP7 phone and seemed to quite like it. However she had no idea how to sell it, it seemed it was the first time she had ever used it as she sluggishly tried to navigate the menus explaining features briefly as she found them.
My mother opted to pay the ridiculous contract fee set by Apple for their iPhone 4, deeming the 4S to be a bit too expensive. For almost half the price she could have walked away with a windows phone, even a monkey could have sold it based on the price of the contract alone. However these monkeys, paid to sell windows phones, couldn't even come up with a basic sales pitch.
I ask, how can windows phone ever hope to compete with iPhone if our sales people ignore all commission and incentives to blindly sell based on their very limited opinionated experiences?
The ignorance of being given a windows phone for free in order to sell it, but never even turning it on just infuriated me! These were two staff that had been selected by phones 4 U to be ambassadors for WP7, and they can't be bothered.
All they could do was go through the features of the iPhone 5 update, calling them 'new' and 'unique' despite every one of them being taken stright from WP7, WM6 or android!
They even used the phrase 'windows phone is just like your windows pc'.
In what way do you think they were referring to?
Carrier sales reps are the worst for that. Here at AT&T they don't bother with iPhone sales because it sales it self so the first thing they will steer you to even if you want the iPhone is the biggest Android phone which is the SGS2. If you ask about WP7 phones they say nobody likes those.
Microsoft is suppose to be helping with sales now and to fix the ignorance.
Crazy.lol. interesting story. I myself went to my local best buy a couple of times in the last month asking about windows phone 7. Both times i was turned away. Apparently they dont have any in stock.
Shame...really wanted to try it out too.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
It doesn't help that windows phone is also fragmented. I had some friends that wanted to get a windows phone and since a few retailers are STILL selling outdated Windows Mobile 6.5 it gets confusing to the average person what to look for when shopping unless they "research" first.
You don't have to do this with Iphone and only have to slightly with Droid.
Another complaint I hear constantly from people that use mine and have their own "free with contract" windows phone is they hate the lack of customization. They see all the pretty things their friends can do with Droid (because they had a guy like me that understood how the phone works and how to do that) and they usually the first thing I am asked is, "Can you put droid on this?"
Plus you have to take into account Windows Phone 7 is still very much in its infancy. Look at the early days of Droid and Iphone the OS was awful, had no customization, and generally irritated the average user. WP7 is in that same spot right now. Mango was nice sure, but it didn't really bring anything new or remarkable to the table.
Last but certainly the most annoying thing is when was the last time you ever saw a Windows Phone 7 commercial? Seriously I hear commercials on the radio and TV CONSTANTLY for iPhone 4s and the latest and greatest DROOOIIIIIDDD! Hell I even see these commercials at the frakkin movie theater! The only time I have ever seen a WP7 commercial was ONCE on Hulu of all places. Microsoft needs to get it together and blast the media, blast the airwaves, and show the world WP7 is a great handset and not just another gimmick phone like WM 6.5 or the now defunct Kin.
On all fronts it's like Microsoft is not even attempting to try and fight the big players and instead just flooding the market with another "smartphone." They need media, advertising, and a truly killer phone to be relevant and motivate people to want a Windows Phone.
C'mon, Wm wasn't a gimmick. I loved that OS.
vetvito said:
C'mon, Wm wasn't a gimmick. I loved that OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM 6.5 is still years ahead of iOS5&ICS and centuries ahead of WP7, and I'm not gonna start trolling over this.
2008-2009 WM was what Android is now. In the worst sense possible. Plenty of handsets, ZILLIONS of custom ROMS and MEGA ZILLIONS of skins-releasea every second.
htc9420 said:
WM 6.5 is still years ahead of iOS5&ICS and centuries ahead of WP7, and I'm not gonna start trolling over this.
2008-2009 WM was what Android is now. In the worst sense possible. Plenty of handsets, ZILLIONS of custom ROMS and MEGA ZILLIONS of skins-releasea every second.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe for certain abilities, WinMo exceeds. But for quality, reliability and user experience, there is nothing that exists or has existed that beats WP7 w/Mango. All of the claimed polish that iOS has truly exists in WP7. And WinMo was anything but quality and user experience.
^ smartphones were actually smart back then. They UI was designed for a stylus, so yeah it sucked. IPhone changed that.
vetvito said:
^ smartphones were actually smart back then. They UI was designed for a stylus, so yeah it sucked. IPhone changed that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know what Sega's game and console design philosophy was when they were still in the hardware business...expecially with the Dreamcast? It was very simple: Make the controller with very few controls or buttons and make games to compensate with better, more intelligent control. A single button should be made to control the maximum amount of functions as possible. Basically making the software do all of the thinking rather than cluttering up the physical controller with buttons and switches.
This is what I see with WP7. It may appear to be simple and lacking on the surface, but the software is doing more than anything else before it. That's a true "smartphone". A smartphone doesn't need to be filled with surface controls and menus to be smart. No way was WinMo smarter than WP7.
I agree all sales reps do is iPhone! For some reason Apple is revolutionary when they do something that's already been done. For example: Notification Bar! (Android had that from the start) 8MP Camera(I know android phones had it far before) Honestly iPhones are way over thought and it doesn't help that everyone is devoloping apps for Apple, I would like a WP7 but since they came on so late there is little to no apps and I saw the prices for apps and its outrageous. Once more, when the iPhone 5 comes out it will more than likely steal the live wallpapers and Widgets and somehow people will think that apple did something revolutionary once more.
Sent from my Revolting Revolution using 4GLTE network that iPhones DONT HAVE.
Windows Phone has a few things fighting against it. First most people have no clue what a "smart" phone really should do beyond be pretty. Like vetvito says, Windows Mobile 6.5 was a real smart phone features wise. A smart phone that sells well in today's market (to the masses) is all about social media, music and games. People don't even try to find out all the things their phones can or cannot do. That is why Apple can get away with saying the features they pilfer from Android, Palm and Microsoft are "new and revolutionary". For all of us, we know that is a lie, but the general public has no clue.
Secondly, the carriers and store representatives have no desire to sell them. Even when given incentives, they don't try. It is as if no one wants Microsoft to have a foothold in the market anymore. Here in the States Verizon and TMobile are so married to the Android platform almost nothing else gets marketing. I say this even as Verizon has the Iphone boosting it's sales numbers. TMobile is so married to the Android platform they they aren't getting HTC's flagship phone the TITAN even though the last high powered breakthrough phone HTC Windows phone sold out for months straight (HTC HD2). While Apple hasn't made a iPhone compatible with their network, you would think TMobile USA would double up and fight back with every weapon available. Instead they ignore Windows Phone in both marketing and in store supplies. AT&T is getting the TITAN, but there is no advertising for it. iPhone sales have filled their coffers and non exclusivity hasn't hurt them a bit. They simply don't care. To be honest I've felt ATT has wanted to buy TMobile USA as a tactic backed by Apple in and attempt to eliminate a good amount of Android sales -but I'm a conspiracy theorist!
Third we have the issue of Microsoft looking lost behind Ballmer whether they really are or not. Steve Ballmer simply doesn't exude confidence to the average person when he speaks. Couple this with his continued business plan of leaving the success of Windows Phone up to the OEM's, even though it hasn't been successful for this platform, showing either a lack of desire for Windows Phone to really dominate/compete, total incompetence or both.
Lastly, we have the geek to public communication aspect. Geeks have adamantly declared anything from Microsoft dead in the water at launch. Who cares if they are on the XBox 6-8 hours a day right? I am not really surprised because the hate for Windows Mobile and Windows Phone here on XDA from the Android crowd is just a "window" of what the general public is being told and sold. Android fanboys and zealots world wide have done a great job of destroying any good will there was for the Windows mobile platform, a feat they couldn't accomplish vs Apple and their marketing machine. What really is crazy about this is how similar Android really is to Windows Mobile, including instability and customization. How similar you say? Enough for Microsoft to negotiate deals with just about every major and minor Android handset manufacturer for a cost paid to MS for every Android handset manufactured/sold due to intellectual property patent infringements and future patent protection from Microsoft. Basically Microsoft is making money hand over fist with nearly every Android handset sold. I wonder when the geeks are going to start telling all their friends that?
MartyLK said:
This is what I see with WP7. It may appear to be simple and lacking on the surface, but the software is doing more than anything else before it. That's a true "smartphone". A smartphone doesn't need to be filled with surface controls and menus to be smart. No way was WinMo smarter than WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's always interesting to see how "smart" means different things for different people. And actually how this definition evolves.
I will stick to my definition which basically says smart = can do more.
In this regard WP7 is like an idiot. WM was amazing OS, really super capable.
you have a great point, i love my windows phone to death but i think that they will be able to attack worlwide markets with nokias help since nokia a good brand in other parts of teh world this will help windows phone a lot. THe only way they can break through in america is with sexy looking devices(like the nokia n9 the sea ray will be that) and some crazy marketing until then windows phone won't gain traction
Especially when most WP7 phones are boring and not exciting.
Looks like MS is trying to do something about WP7's visibility.
http://gizmodo.com/5852497/confused...ws-store-is-hanging-around-their-free-concert
Oh? Another of these threads...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
doministry said:
Especially when most WP7 phones are boring and not exciting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cuz iOS is really exciting? If Apple does not do something more with the UI of iOS they will find themselves starting to decline. Thinking up of fancy handset designs will become increasing hard and the day you miss is the day you are in trouble.
Look, I love Windows Phone, admitted from afar, but let us not kid ourselves. Windows Phone is not selling well because it is the new kid on the block in a world of two powerhouses that do alot more.
If you have the choice between Product A or B that both do a whole lot, satisfy most user's needs fully, and are very popular, there is very little reason to swing out and pick Product C. That goes for Bada OS, WebOS, Meego, or any other new OS.
The most compelling reason to buy into Windows Phone is it gives users Android-like handset options with an iOS control philosophy. It will take a little while for that angle to penetrate the market.
But imagine iOS but with a more interesting user interface and handset choices from all the major brands (and an ace in the pocket in Nokia). That is Windows Phone. Solid foundation, great hardware support, rich daddy.
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
vetvito said:
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you can't. Some people just can't see the bigger picture. Look going forward. Not just with Nokia's huge reach, but Windows 8 release. Do you not realize how many developers will have access to Windows Phone just because of its similarities and integration into future Windows releases? The fact that people will see the similarities between Win 8 and Windows Phone? Things take time. Even more so now that there are TWO giant smart phone OS's and not just the iPhone like with Android's first outing.
Android still doesn't have 500,000 apps either. Seriously there seems to be no pleasing some people. Needs to have 500,000K apps in first month, needs to have 50% market in first year.......
vetvito said:
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WinMo never had the amount of apps WP7 currently has. I think of the 30+ thousand apps in the WP7 market as amazing. No exaggeration. It's purely amazing there are that many apps in under 1 year. I expect that by this time next year there will be 3 times as many or more.
And a significant number of apps in the WP7 market are high-value apps that the other markets have. WinMo never had these high-value apps.
EDIT - added a screenshot of the latest numbers.
---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------
dtboos said:
Android didn't have 500,000 apps either, and now it does. Seriously there seems to be no pleasing some people. Needs to have 500,000K apps in first month, needs to have 50% market in first year.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually no. Android currently has under 300,000 apps. iOS has 500+ thousand apps.