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As most of the config are same is there any possibility we can port one x + battery in to our one x by changing the case or by using the same case. That's the only one I need from one x +
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Hi
forumhookersdotcom said:
As most of the config are same is there any possibility we can port one x + battery in to our one x by changing the case or by using the same case. That's the only one I need from one x +
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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It depends. If the battery isn't the same size then no it isn't going to be possible as physically it will not fit.
Even if the same size, the charging circuit may not fully charge the battery so the extra capacity isn't realised easily in the current model.
Regards
Phil
PhilipL said:
Even if the same size, the charging circuit may not fully charge the battery so the extra capacity isn't realised easily in the current model.
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That's not how battery charging works. It would charge fine.
Hi
BenPope said:
That's not how battery charging works. It would charge fine.
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Not if the maximum voltage for a full charge is different. Typically lithium ion charges to 4.1 to 4.2 volt depending on the battery and design, the lower full charge voltage will favour longevity over capacity, the higher voltage utilises the full capacity of the cell but stresses the cell more lowering it's life time.
If the HTC One X+ battery is designed to be pushed to a slightly higher voltage to achieve the higher capacity fully, and/or being allowed to drop to a lower voltage during it's duty to get the extra, then the charging circuitry in the HTC One X will not realise the full extra capacity, it will charge fine, but the extra capacity will not be seen.
If the max/min duty voltages are the same, then it will charge just fine to full capacity, assuming the data connections are identical between the cell and the phone that is. However in this case it is more likely the extra capacity is then achieved by a bigger battery, so it will not fit. The FCC information already shows a different placement arrangement for the antennas so the internals are arranged differently and what we are probably looking at is a slightly bigger battery.
Another issue if it fits and works is the charging will take longer. For safety the charging circuit in the phone has a safety timer calibrated to work with the original battery, if the charging takes longer than expected (as it would with the higher capacity battery) the charging is halted to avoid the potential for an explosion, so unless this timer is also changed, or is set automatically by data supplied from the inbuilt battery protection circuit, it might prove problematic charging the higher capacity battery, especially from flat to full, as the safety timer will terminate the charge before the battery is fully charged.
Regards
Phil
I strongly suspect that the charge voltage is the same and any timer is unlikely to kick in as it will have plenty of headroom.
The difference is most likely due to physical size or perhaps an improved charge density.
We can order one x+ battery and case if it charges well and works good right . Are you sure it won't works ?
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
BenPope said:
I strongly suspect that the charge voltage is the same and any timer is unlikely to kick in as it will have plenty of headroom.
The difference is most likely due to physical size or perhaps an improved charge density.
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I have doubts that htc will make the battery interchangeable as they would suspect that one x owners would attempt a battery swap.
Anyhow the battery will not be, at least theoretically, interchangeable, as you aren't supposed to open the housing.
So that wouldn't be a worry.
Phil, what you say regarding a timer is total nonsense.... If u keep your phone plugged in and play a game in the meantime, charging can take also the whole day, because you're using the battery in the meantime.. BUT it is charging!! Charging does not interrupt after a specified amount of time..
What the phone, and also any other phone has, is a circuit which is stopping the charge when battery is full. How does it know the battery is full? This circuit is not in the phone but in the battery
Regarding the charging voltages and so - again nonsense... The voltage of a battery is fixed. It does not vary at all or if it does it is a measuring error. Nor does the charging voltage. This is again fixed.
(of course nothing is perfect, they can vary, but with 1% or even less, must be a tolerable error.)
When charging a battery what may vary and it depends on the charger is the electrical current's intensity (measured in amperes).
Putting a battery with a higher capacity in the phone will have the following results:
1. Longer battery life
2. Slower charge
But if the battery has the same voltage (and i think it does) it will work, and it will charge fully!!
Most probably htc is using the same voltage on all their phones...
If this is true, the only thing that could stop us from changing the battery will be the form factor of it....
Sent from my HOX InsertCoin using xda app-developers app
Charging lithium ion batteries is two phase; firstly, constant current, where the voltage is variable, and then constant voltage, where the current is variable.
Thx mate well still... From experience with other phones where i changed my battery- i don't think the charging process will be an issue... Usually a manufacturer uses the same process of charging with all phones or at least similar models.... I swapped li-ion batteries with li-pol and had no issue at all
So if form factor will be the same, in my opinion it will work!
Sent from my HOX InsertCoin using xda app-developers app
Let me know if any one tried swapping
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Dunno how to say it in English but physically my battery is getting bigger, and when on battery low, it gives me the notification and the phone just turns of on the same second.
The battery is starting to be like a balloon and and hardly fits in the phone, can anyone tell me what's happening?
btw, I'm using the stock ROM now.
Your battery is bloated. Congratulations. To fix this, there is only one solution. Change your battery.
Sent from my 4.1 running Galaxy W.
Great
iDelta said:
Your battery is bloated. Congratulations. To fix this, there is only one solution. Change your battery.
Sent from my 4.1 running Galaxy W.
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Thanks for the reply, but does anyone knows why did this happen? My device is 1 year old last week, it shouldn't happen that fast I guess.
Osoris said:
Thanks for the reply, but does anyone knows why did this happen? My device is 1 year old last week, it shouldn't happen that fast I guess.
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there are many reasons why your battery is bloated .......... one of charging too much time away from his proper time, time you charge the phone you are using (playing games) .....
sorry with my english
Correct
hazikh said:
there are many reasons why your battery is bloated .......... one of charging too much time away from his proper time, time you charge the phone you are using (playing games) .....
sorry with my english
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I use it a lot while charging specially for games, and lots if times I had to charge it while it's still have more than 40%. OK lesson learned and the new battery will be treated differently. Thanks.
Osoris said:
I use it a lot while charging specially for games, and lots if times I had to charge it while it's still have more than 40%. OK lesson learned and the new battery will be treated differently. Thanks.
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Hi, found this on eHow and as automobile electrician dealing sometimes also with batteries i cannot confirm that your battery was bloated just because of playing games an charge phone at same time. Li-Ion cells don't like to be fully discharged. When u charge them before they go out of power is the best you can do to preserve their capacity.
Don't use your phone with silicon case when gaming because it can prevent air ventilation in the phone and cause it to heat up more when placed under heavy load like when playing games.
And now what can contibute to a battery bloatup:
Battery Components
• Most cell phone batteries contain a lithium-ion mixture. Lithium is an alkaline metal, and its ion simply has more electrons than protons. The battery also contains a positive and negative electrode, and when you use the battery, the lithium ions move from one to the other, creating an electric charge. Under normal circumstances, the lithium ions can continue to absorb and dissipate energy. However, if you expose the battery to certain conditions, its chemistry can change, causing undesirable effects.
Water Damage
• Your cell phone battery is extremely sensitive to water. The plastic casing provides some protection; however, if you expose the metal electrodes to water, they can corrode and become ineffective. Water leaking into the batteries case can cause it to appear bloated. Discard such a battery immediately because the lithium solvent can be harmful if you come into contact with it. If the phone has been submerged in water, this is usually enough to cause water damage to the battery if there is not a tight seal between the battery and the phone.
Heat Damage
• The lithium solvent that carries the charge from electrode to electrode is extremely sensitive to heat. If you expose the phone to temperatures that considerably exceed 77 degrees Fahrenheit, the battery may lose its ability to hold a charge over time. This is considered normal. However, if you consistently expose it to higher temperatures, then you can cause the lithium-ion mixture to rupture the cell, which can cause the battery to appear bloated. Most lithium-ion batteries contain fail-safes that prevent them from operating in extreme temperatures, but there is no guarantee that these will work in every case.
Prevention
• Prevent damage of this sort from occurring by not exposing your phone to extreme temperatures and unsafe environments. For example, do not bring your mobile phone near pools or inside of saunas. On hot summer days, keep the phone and other electronics out of direct sunlight.
try doctor battery, its available at the store free,
bhun said:
Hi, found this on eHow and as automobile electrician dealing sometimes also with batteries i cannot confirm that your battery was bloated just because of playing games an charge phone at same time.
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But I can confirm this. I´m having actually here 4 batteries for the SGW and one of them is bloated due to heavy usage while charging the battery. This battery was my best battery but now it´s just a paperweight. It´s still working well though it´s bloated, but I´m not going to risk anything.
You can´t simply compare a car with its lead battery to this device, because in the car the battery is just needed to start the car. Once the engine is running the battery is not needed as the generator is producing enough electricity for the entire car and to charge the not needed battery.
You can even remove the lead battery completely and just connect the car to a powerfull enough source to get it started. Onec its running, you can remove the source too and it will continue to run.
With the SGW and its LI-Ion battery things are a bit different. You for example can´t simply plug in the charger and turn the device on without the battery. The battery is still neeeded to power on the device for two reasons. First is the charger might be not strong enough to offer enough power but the obvious one is, the circuit inside the phone reduces the charging current to a max. level and the voltage to be 4.2V max. It acts like a constant current and constant voltage source where the preset max limits can´t be exeeded. The real charging current and voltage are depending to the charging level and the battery resistance, but will never exeed the max limits in a proper working circuit.
Additionally this circuit is feeding the battery directly, so the current is floating first into the battery and then the battery is feeding the entire device. So at heavy usage the power offered by the circuit will be not enough to be simply passed to the device and so the battery will be stressed twice, as it´s charging and discharging at the same time.
This is still a simplyfied explanation to what is really going on, but explains a little bit why you can´t compare a car with it´s battery to this device.
Also, the batteries for the SGW do not offer it´s own protection circuit. The only circuit that protects the battery is build in into the phone.
So the best advice that can be given here is to avoid heavy usage while the battery is being charged. Better charge it first, use it then and recharge when not in use.
bhun said:
Lithium is an alkaline metal, and its ion simply has more electrons than protons.
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I´m not sure where you digged this out, but this is simply not the full truth. In neutral stage each element is having as much electrons as much protons it has. Ions are either having temporaly more or less electrons. They can be ionized positive or negative.
In a normal Li-Ion battery it´s the anode that consists of lithium and is having positive lithium ions, so less electrons than protons.
In a lead battery both, the anode and the cathode consist of lead. One is positive ionized and the other one negative.
honeyx said:
But I can confirm this. I´m having actually here 4 batteries for the SGW and one of them is bloated due to heavy usage while charging the battery. This battery was my best battery but now it´s just a paperweight. It´s still working well though it´s bloated, but I´m not going to risk anything.
You can´t simply compare a car with its lead battery to this device, because in the car the battery is just needed to start the car. Once the engine is running the battery is not needed as the generator is producing enough electricity for the entire car and to charge the not needed battery.
You can even remove the lead battery completely and just connect the car to a powerfull enough source to get it started. Onec its running, you can remove the source too and it will continue to run.
With the SGW and its LI-Ion battery things are a bit different. You for example can´t simply plug in the charger and turn the device on without the battery. The battery is still neeeded to power on the device for two reasons. First is the charger might be not strong enough to offer enough power but the obvious one is, the circuit inside the phone reduces the charging current to a max. level and the voltage to be 4.2V max. It acts like a constant current and constant voltage source where the preset max limits can´t be exeeded. The real charging current and voltage are depending to the charging level and the battery resistance, but will never exeed the max limits in a proper working circuit.
Additionally this circuit is feeding the battery directly, so the current is floating first into the battery and then the battery is feeding the entire device. So at heavy usage the power offered by the circuit will be not enough to be simply passed to the device and so the battery will be stressed twice, as it´s charging and discharging at the same time.
This is still a simplyfied explanation to what is really going on, but explains a little bit why you can´t compare a car with it´s battery to this device.
Also, the batteries for the SGW do not offer it´s own protection circuit. The only circuit that protects the battery is build in into the phone.
So the best advice that can be given here is to avoid heavy usage while the battery is being charged. Better charge it first, use it then and recharge when not in use.
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Sorry if it souded as i would compare a Li-Ion to a lead battery. I was actually not doing that. By that i meant that i understand somewhat of batteries. I've learned about batteries (how different types work) back in school. All Li-Ion based batteries have their own protecting circuit. It is not depending on the phone. This circuit built in every Li-Ion based battery prevents it from beeing overcharged, wich would result in the battery exploding. It also gives the phone a limited feedback on battery charge status, and perhaps somewhat potecting the battery to be fully drained wich would result in irreversible damage to the cells. I agree with you that it is better to charge when not using them, but in real life this is not easy to do when you (by what cause ever) want or have to use your device. I am not a gamer so i am not using my phone that way.
Since i am using my phone lots of times plugged on a charger, making phonecalls and doing other stuff like email, surfing the web, watching videos and so on, and never get close to that issue (battery is almost 2 years old) i still don't think that that would be the biggest problem.
On hot days is it not recommended to use our devices with heavy loads, ofcourse you could climb into the fridge (may not be a problem then), and it is also advised to avoid humidity. That's all i know for now, that it would contribute to a bloated battery.
Sorry if i unattendedly caused some confusion.
bhun said:
Sorry if it souded as i would compare a Li-Ion to a lead battery.
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No problem, I´m just trying to clarify this
but with this I have to disagree
bhun said:
All Li-Ion based batteries have their own protecting circuit. It is not depending on the phone. This circuit built in every Li-Ion based battery prevents it from beeing overcharged, wich would result in the battery exploding. It also gives the phone a limited feedback on battery charge status, and perhaps somewhat potecting the battery to be fully drained wich would result in irreversible damage to the cells
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Not all Li-Ion batteries have their own protection ciurcuit. Only the protected ones. Do a search on google about protected and not protected Li-Ion batteries.
In cellphones most batteries are not protected ones because of the circuit taking to much space and so incrasing the battery size a lot. Therefore the protection circuit gets moved into the phone but the battery itself is not protected at all. In most batteries the feedback you will only get is the temperature. It´s mostly a simple thermistor either being somwhere close to the battery or inside the battery. The rest is calculated by knowing the capacity and monitoring the voltage and current drain.
So the only circuit you will find in not protected batteries is the one for reading the thermistor, if there is one build in. But this circuit will not protect the battery against a short circuit.
Just to not confuse about this. There are of course protected batteries for cellphones as long the circuit can fit into the part where the connections are.
But the truth is this circuit can fail to disconnect the battery from a short circuit and there are even batteries with fake protection. So there is a pcb with a circuit, but this is just fake and doing nothing.
However regarding this discussion about bloated batteries it doesn´t matter the battery has a protection circuit or not. The protection circuit only disconnects the battery if a short circuit occurs or the battery voltage drops below 3V.
Buy a new battery.
Sent from my GT-I8150 using xda app-developers app
iDelta said:
Your battery is bloated. Congratulations. To fix this, there is only one solution. Change your battery.
Sent from my 4.1 running Galaxy W.
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That is the best answer for your problem, maybe to alot of overcharge :angel:
Can you guys check your batteries with an app like AIDA64? I thought the Note7 is supposed to use Li-Po, but AIDA64 says mine is Li-Ion.
I'm wanting to see if Samsung is using both to meet supply and demand, or if it's actually Li-Po but software reports it as Li-Ion.
What do you guys think?
rodnii said:
Can you guys check your batteries with an app like AIDA64? I thought the Note7 is supposed to use Li-Po, but AIDA64 says mine is Li-Ion.
I'm wanting to see if Samsung is using both to meet supply and demand, or if it's actually Li-Po but software reports it as Li-Ion.
What do you guys think?
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What does it matter? They are almost identical, and if the ratings are identical the you would never know the difference.
ZiprLips said:
What does it matter? They are almost identical, and if the ratings are identical the you would never know the difference.
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True. It's just my own curiosity. This can be closed if no one else is interested.
It's high voltage (3.85v rather than the standard 3.7v or the less common but not unheard of 3.6v) li-ion.
That isn't terrible, but a li-po battery will usually offer greater runtime for the same mAh, since the voltage stays higher until it suddenly drops. Li-ion, however, allows battery percentage calculations to be more accurate, because there's more voltage differential over the course of a discharge cycle. Li-po also offers the advantage of improved durability; in other words, more charge cycles before it loses capacity. You can also charge most li-po cells or batteries faster than most li-ion cells or batteries safely.
Does anyone know what voltage the components run at? If it's being bucked from the nominal 3.85v, that won't result in much efficiency loss compared to li-po, but if it's being boosted, the lower voltage at most points in the discharge cycle will result in greater efficiency loss at lower battery charge. I can only assume that most components are quite low-voltage, but I have no idea really.
I suspect they used li-ion because li-po swells more when being charged or discharged heavily, which would possibly result in a cracked case or broken ribbon cables more often.
Aeltar said:
It's high voltage (3.85v rather than the standard 3.7v or the less common but not unheard of 3.6v) li-ion.
That isn't terrible, but a li-po battery will usually offer greater runtime for the same mAh, since the voltage stays higher until it suddenly drops. Li-ion, however, allows battery percentage calculations to be more accurate, because there's more voltage differential over the course of a discharge cycle. Li-po also offers the advantage of improved durability; in other words, more charge cycles before it loses capacity. You can also charge most li-po cells or batteries faster than most li-ion cells or batteries safely.
Does anyone know what voltage the components run at? If it's being bucked from the nominal 3.85v, that won't result in much efficiency loss compared to li-po, but if it's being boosted, the lower voltage at most points in the discharge cycle will result in greater efficiency loss at lower battery charge. I can only assume that most components are quite low-voltage, but I have no idea really.
I suspect they used li-ion because li-po swells more when being charged or discharged heavily, which would possibly result in a cracked case or broken ribbon cables more often.
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I don't want to offend you, but literally none of your information is true.
First of all, a batteries chemical composition has absolutely no bearing on it's mah rating. Mah is a measurement of amperage over time (Milli amp hour). 3500mah = 3500mah regardless of the cells chemical composition.
Second, both lithium ion and lithium polymer cells operat at a range of voltages. Acctually, they operate at almost the exact same voltages. This 3.7v number you are referring to is the "nominal" voltage for both types Li-po and li-on. 3.7v is about that your cell phone battery reads at around 50% charge. At 100% charge both Lipo and li-on are reading 4.2v. When your phone hits 0% charge, the voltage is approximately 3.3v or 3.2v, depending on what android has set for the cutoff. If you drain either cell type below 3.0v the cells may recharge in opposite polarity, which is why no Lipo or li-on charger will attempt to recharge a cell below that 3.0v threshold.
As far as charging is concerned, each cell has what is called a 'c' rating. It actually has 2 c ratings if you want to thorough. C is just a generic term for capacity. These c ratings reefer to the rate at which a cell can be safely charged and discharged. If a 3500 mah cell has a 1 c discharge rating, it can safely be discharged at 3500 mah, or 3.5ah. If a 3500mah cell has a 10c rating, it can be discharged at 35,000mah, or 35 ah.
The same math applies to the charge rate c rating. If a 3500mah cell can be charged at 1c, it can be charged at 3500mah, or 3.5ah. Obviously, this means that a 3500 mah cell, with a 1c charge rate can be fully recharged in 1 hour. The c rating of a Lipo or li-on cell is directly related to the quality of the materials used to construct it, which is to say that the c rating is directly related to the cost lol.
Now as to your question about the operating voltages, I can only speculate. What I can say is that in my limited experience in the field of overclocking desktop cpu's, the voltages for the cpu and ram were always quite low. Around 4v for the cpu iirc , and less than 1.25v for the ram. And like I said, that was in a desktop. All the components in phones and tablets have 'LP' in their part numbers signifying low power, or low voltage. This is for 2 reasons. 1, cause if these components ran on the same voltage as desktop equipment, there would need to be cooling fans involved, and 2 cause they need to be powered by a battery.
All that to speculate that all cell phones use voltage regulators to step the voltage down a LOT.
Chris
---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------
Oh, and your comments on voltages for lithium ion batteries leads me to think you may have them confused with lithium ferrite (Li-Fe) batteries.
ZiprLips said:
I don't want to offend you, but literally none of your information is true.
First of all, a batteries chemical composition has absolutely no bearing on it's mah rating. Mah is a measurement of amperage over time (Milli amp hour). 3500mah = 3500mah regardless of the cells chemical composition.
Second, both lithium ion and lithium polymer cells operat at a range of voltages. Acctually, they operate at almost the exact same voltages. This 3.7v number you are referring to is the "nominal" voltage for both types Li-po and li-on. 3.7v is about that your cell phone battery reads at around 50% charge. At 100% charge both Lipo and li-on are reading 4.2v. When your phone hits 0% charge, the voltage is approximately 3.3v or 3.2v, depending on what android has set for the cutoff. If you drain either cell type below 3.0v the cells may recharge in opposite polarity, which is why no Lipo or li-on charger will attempt to recharge a cell below that 3.0v threshold.
As far as charging is concerned, each cell has what is called a 'c' rating. It actually has 2 c ratings if you want to thorough. C is just a generic term for capacity. These c ratings reefer to the rate at which a cell can be safely charged and discharged. If a 3500 mah cell has a 1 c discharge rating, it can safely be discharged at 3500 mah, or 3.5ah. If a 3500mah cell has a 10c rating, it can be discharged at 35,000mah, or 35 ah.
The same math applies to the charge rate c rating. If a 3500mah cell can be charged at 1c, it can be charged at 3500mah, or 3.5ah. Obviously, this means that a 3500 mah cell, with a 1c charge rate can be fully recharged in 1 hour. The c rating of a Lipo or li-on cell is directly related to the quality of the materials used to construct it, which is to say that the c rating is directly related to the cost lol.
Now as to your question about the operating voltages, I can only speculate. What I can say is that in my limited experience e in the field of overclocking desktop club's, the voltages for the cpu and ram were always quite low. Around 4v for the cpu out, and less than 1.25v for the ram. And like I said, that was in a desktop. All the components in phones and tablets have 'LP' in their part numbers signifying low power, or low voltage. This is for 2 reasons. 1, cause if these components ran on the same voltage as desktop equipment, there would need to be cooling fans involved, and 2 cause they need to be powered by a battery.
All that to speculate that all cell phones use voltage regulators to step the voltage down a LOT.
Chris
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Pardon me, but I'd like to correct a few details that you've overlooked.
1) I never said that one chemistry offers greater mAh, only that one offers a more stable voltage over its discharge cycle. This can be easily confirmed with a battery analyzer.
2) The li-ion pack they're using is clearly marked as 3.85v nominal. Most cells are 3.7v nominal, some are 3.6v, and some are 3.85v.
3) The voltage over discharge time is not linear; most cells operate at their nominal voltage for the largest portion of their discharge cycle, but 3.7v hardly equals 50% for most cells under most conditions.
4) Cells will not recharge in 'opposite polarity' if brought below 3.0v; the safety cutoff is actually 2.8v for most chemistries, and the safety issues with bringing them below that point is that the anode will begin to dissolve, which can cause an internal hard short if severe enough.
5) While li-po and li-ion typically offer the same nominal, maximal, and minimal voltages, the actual voltage over the discharge cycle is different between individual chemistries and constructions. Even identical chemistry (not just li-ion but IMR, also known as LiMn2O4) can differ in performance due to the material and architectural differences in the anode and cathode.
6) While the C rating is certainly relevant, I had assumed that Samsung would choose a cell that is of sufficiently high C rating to charge and discharge at and beyond typical amperage used in these phones.
7) You seem confused on the definition of Ah. Ah means amp-hours; one amp for one hour is one amp-hour. Similarly, joules are watt-seconds; one watt for one second is one joule, 60 watts for 1 second is 60 joules, and 1 watt for 60 seconds is 60 joules. However, energy is not transmitted at a rate of Ah, it is transmitted at a rate of A, or amps.
8) Desktop CPUs have little bearing on mobile CPUs. The technology used to power and construct them is entirely different. While it is extremely likely that mobile components are very low voltage, I don't have concrete knowledge regarding them, and I have no idea of the efficiency or regulation mechanism involved. I conjecture that they are very low-voltage, but while LP does indeed mean low power, power means wattage in the context of electrical engineering. You cannot extrapolate low-voltage from low-wattage due to Watt's law, which describes that you can create equivalent wattage using high voltage and low amperage or low voltage and high amperage (relatively speaking, of course, for both).
9) While mAh is mAh, the mAh given is at a specified load, typically 1C or 0.5C, and not at all indicative of performance at a higher load. There is almost no real-world use case in which you will actually be able to use the complete rated mAh of a cell, and the disparity is due to the voltage of the cell at differing loads at different points in the discharge cycle. It's trivially easy to get 1500mAh or less from a 3500mAh 18650, simply by drawing sufficient amperage. Li-Po typically offers a higher C rating for its size, compared to Li-ion which typically offers a higher capacity for its size. Because of this and the unknowns involved in power regulation inside the device, it's difficult to say whether the 3500mAh 3.85v li-ion cell used will be more or less efficient than a similarly sized and rated li-po cell, unless you happen to work with Samsung directly.
While I continue to disagree with most of your statements, I need to go to sleep, got to work tomorrow unfortunately.
I will only say that I concur with your definition of amp hours, I merely used a different cell capacity in my example. I should ha e some time at work tomorrow to continue the discussion.
There are different marketing names.
This kind of LiPo is often called a Li-HV in the hobby world.
HV for high voltage.
Instead of usual 3.7v nominal and 4.2v full, these chemistries run at 3.85v nominal and 4.35-4.4v full
Overall it should be a fairly quality cell, even if it IS made in China.... Personally I wish they sourced em from Panasonic / Sony / Sanyo etc or built em in Korea or Japan but it probably doesn't matter.
Wow, a very insightful read. Makes me want to go back and study for another degree haha..
Anyway, here is a picture of the battery from the Note7 iFixit teardown. It definitely says Li-Ion and lists nominal voltage @ 3.85V and charge voltage at 4.4V.
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/pHmgEwFNoQTnKyOY.huge
Honestly, I'm just curious, or even annoyed, because of discrepancies between what I see and what is being advertised/reported regarding tech specs. And being human, I want to get the best of what is offered, even if it's marginal. I know I shouldn't think too much about it and move on, but after seeing that photo, I can't help but wonder if there really are models out there with Li-Po or not.
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
NCguy said:
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
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I'm wondering if it could be another exynos / snapdragon thing where one has the other type?
Mitha88 said:
I'm wondering if it could be another exynos / snapdragon thing where one has the other type?
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Actually I'm not familiar with the exynos snapdragon thing?
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NCguy said:
Actually I'm not familiar with the exynos snapdragon thing?
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I think he's talking about how we get Snapdragon in the US and Exynos in the international version. Or USB 3.1 with Snapdragon and USB 2.0 on the Exynos.
rodnii said:
I think he's talking about how we get Snapdragon in the US and Exynos in the international version. Or USB 3.1 with Snapdragon and USB 2.0 on the Exynos.
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I'm pretty sure the "USB 2.0" was a typo I've seen many places list the "F" model with USB 3.1
i.e http://www.phonemore.com/phone/samsung-galaxy-note-7-sm-n930f/2708
NCguy said:
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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For RC usage (extremely high discharge) li-po is strictly superior, because it offers higher drain in a smaller package.
Our phones hardly use any power at all. Can you imagine any sort of RC device with a 1S 3.5Ah cell lasting all day?
Li-ion offers higher energy density for lower discharge applications, up to about 5-8C or so. Above that, li-po shines in terms of size compared to capacity and discharge rate.
As said previously I don't think the use of li-ion is really a letdown. It has drawbacks and benefits. I'd personally prefer li-po, but li-ion makes sense for this application as well.
I suspect the largest benefit the consumer would see from li-po in these uses, if similarly specced, would be greater overall durability (more charge cycles). Let's just hope they went with a high quality li-ion so it'll still be adequate a couple years down the road.
The fact that li-po swells slightly during normal usage is important, too. The teardowns I've seen show very packed internals; a slight amount of swelling, say, when fast charging a year down the road, could equal disaster for other components or the physical casing, or even perhaps the waterproofing.
Trueeeeee
bro all your researches is right and i have been working trying to find out the truth and actually you were scammed for years in every smartphone and iphone li ion batteries is a miss it cannot handle alot of voltage and almost gets 300 or 500 battery cycles and dies when it became 50 or 30 % i used two old smartphones in my house that is xiaomi note 4 li po and samsung s3 li ion those were my grandfather's and i asked him to help me in this research he used to work as a chemist in science university btw .. we left the both phones to charge with 5w charger for 3 nights and the li po phone didnot get hot and the other li ion phone was pregnant lol the back of it actually the battery were blown up i took it with a glove and got rid of it .. so that actually made me satisfied li po battery is safer to use and keeps its temp while li ion is much cheaper (i am not sure of the price) and we should maintain its temp between 25 - 55 c cause it gets damage by temp and have really bad life time i am not a scientist or hardware or software designer or any kind of these things i just noticed that .. and btw i tried this method with alot of smartphones that has li ion and li po batteries but i changed the chargers and tried higher voltage but not higher that what it does support like my note 8 only 15w charger and that surprised me li ion phones didnot survive they catch heat pretty fast they didnot blow up or anything but the battery life of them were decreased like **** but li po didnot get affected by any mean so i just have to change them that happened to my iphone 7 and samsung note 8 as well so dont try this test you well have to replace them in the store but fck money when i got to understand that companies like samsung and others were fooling us i know they have the best software and antennas and alot more good futures but what will i do with a phone that cannot charge quick like we see in others brands 40w chargers and 30w and having a bad battery life as well
Can it be done as..? As their is no physical dimension changes.. Can we assume that bigger battery could be installed in our op3....?
They said no many times over.
They use the same sized battery, but charge it to a higher voltage, thus giving it more capacity.
Daemos said:
They use the same sized battery, but charge it to a higher voltage, thus giving it more capacity.
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note7 the 2nd...? Sounds a bit daft to charge to a higher voltage. If it was this easy wouldn't all manufacturers max out the batteries?
I was wondering the same if its possible from the software side?
G0dofWar said:
I was wondering the same if its possible from the software side?
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bonerp said:
note7 the 2nd...? Sounds a bit daft to charge to a higher voltage. If it was this easy wouldn't all manufacturers max out the batteries?
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No its a total different battery. If we charge it to 4.4 we will ruin the cells. And no it won't explode.
WTF are you talking?! The capacity of the battery has NOTHING to do with the voltage. The voltage only depends on the used (cathode) materials of the battery. The capacity can only be increased by making the battery (cells) bigger or with a higher density like Lithium Polymer batteries. You can't just load a battery to a voltage you want. Every material has it's rated voltage and charge end voltage.
What do you learn at school guys? That's absolutely embarrassing.
But you can reduce the voltage you take out from the battery.
Use fairpark governor, you'll get 10 hrs screen on time out of which 90 percent of the time you won't feel it's slow.
darshakjust4u said:
But you can reduce the voltage you take out from the battery.
Use fairpark governor, you'll get 10 hrs screen on time out of which 90 percent of the time you won't feel it's slow.
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Most certainly you will
Gerrit507 said:
WTF are you talking?! The capacity of the battery has NOTHING to do with the voltage. The voltage only depends on the used (cathode) materials of the battery. The capacity can only be increased by making the battery (cells) bigger or with a higher density like Lithium Polymer batteries. You can't just load a battery to a voltage you want. Every material has it's rated voltage and charge end voltage.
What do you learn at school guys? That's absolutely embarrassing.
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Well, the voltage is in fact raised. Did they change materials? Maybe, we don't know and frankly we don't care.
All we know is that the batteries are physically the same size and that those in OP3 run at 4.35V and those in OP3T run at 4.4V.
Clearly there has to be more differences (density, that you mentioned).
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Explorer23 said:
Well, the voltage is in fact raised. Did they change materials? Maybe, we don't know and frankly we don't care.
All we know is that the batteries are physically the same size and that those in OP3 run at 4.35V and those in OP3T run at 4.4V.
Clearly there has to be more differences (density, that you mentioned).
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OnePlus did confirm that the chemical composition is different. I know swapping is recommended, but theoretically, would it be possible ?
Hmm, that's very interesting! I'd be willing to try, if the parts are readily available.
However, I'm pretty sure the connector from the old to the new battery isn't the same. Apple changed this with every iteration, to prevent this exact thing.
Even if you changed the battery. The charging circuit in the op3 would still cut off at the voltage for the standard op3 battery.
Then there is the possibility that the batteries have different charging requirements so you could damage the new battery by charging it incorrectly with the op3 circuit.
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Y'all. You're all right. They increased the size of the battery AND the voltage outputted. The phone uses more power than the OnePlus 3, it needed a bigger battery to have the same screen-on-time while having a higher voltage. There's no way you'd ever put this battery in the OnePlus 3 without frying half the phone.
Err, from what I understood when reading all info made public on this, is that they changed neither the size nor the density of the battery. They just made a slight chemical change to make the battery more stable, allowing them to increase the safety voltage threshold from 4.35 to 4.4.
Basically, on 1+3 the battery connector on the phone doesn't allow charging over 100% which is equivalent to the limit of 4.35 safe maximum voltage.
On the 3T, it allows to charge up to on what would be 113% on the 1+3, because it allows charging till it reaches the new maximum safe voltage of 4.4... which just happens to be an extension of 13% in charge.
The absolute top limit capacity of both batteries are the same, but that is highly unsafe overvoltage territory, where the probability of either batteries burning like molten lava would be almost guaranteed (it is how lithium Ion batteries ignite, they don't explode like a grenade, unless you seal them up inside a strong solid structure where internal pressure would skyrocket, which is not the case with phones).
If you changed batteries, most likely it wouldn't make a difference on the 1+3 since the connector there stops charging the battery when it reaches 4.35 volts.
A volt isn't a measure of the amount of power in a battery. Let's use the analogy of a jug of water - volts would be the rate that water comes out of the jug, or more specifically, the water pressure. Amps (milliamps in this case) would be the size of the hole, and mAh would be the amount of water in the jug. Voltage was raised .05 volts - more water coming out would drain the jug faster, so they put more water in the jug to compensate. The system draws more power - they were just compensating. I don't know the actual screen-on-time, but I would expect them to be pretty much the same.
now that's a something bigger battery is limited to software hmm... Thanks Jerry for awesome work..
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Wolf
Just to add this to the discussion. A 0,05V delta is even for micro-electronics a quite small difference. As I own like 20 or even more lithium-ion batteries for modelmaking for example and a really good charger which is precise to 0.01V that same models of batterys can have up to 0.1V voltage difference or sometimes even more. Furthermore the voltage drops from degeneration. I can assure you that battery would work on the OnePlus3. It might not fully charge because the charging electronics think it's the other battery but it would work...
---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------
SynisterWolf said:
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Wolf
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Thanks
The OP3T battery should work. It just won't fully charge. You need to change the end voltage trigger from 4.35 to 4.4
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but it lasts the same... i used several applications and all of them detect 1900mah.
No chance, you have too selfcompile the kernel to change the capacity. I have a 2100mah battery and the same "problem".
Regards
hrodeberht
So is the "detected" capacity actually hardcoded to what the oioginal vendor's battery was? Is that even a problem then, other than the misinformation on the battery info? I mean, it should still charge to its full capacity, since even if it's bigger - the charge process should still stop charging it at the same limit voltage, and it should be very similar (if not the same) whether it's 1900 or 2100 mAh battery, right?
Or am I wrong here?
Hi, a real detection is only possible by testing the accu. In a externsl station. Without that you eont be enable to check capacity. The phone will charge the accu until it is full. An app doesnt can detected the capacity.
Ok, maybe its possible if the s4 mini have a realtime current measure and it adds all current over time and count all. Then ir could be possible, with a few full to low cycles.