Being a new Samsung Focus owner, I'm as stupified as everyone else about the microsd problems. This is a major upgrade option that should have been ready to go at WP7 launch. You would think Samsung and AT&T would have a vested interest in getting this right. Shame on them. But as I'm searching the Interent trying to find information on the correct cards, all I see is a flood of "so-called" experts bashing Microsoft and trying to make this into a big scandal. The truth is, Microsoft put this information out 8 months ago...
Windows Phone 7s won't support user-replaceable memory cards, Kindel said. Microsoft will work with OEMs to make sure that phones have enough storage for media and 3D games, but there will be no MicroSD cards for your music. Some phones could have a MicroSD locked under the battery, but it won't be user-replaceable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2361377,00.asp
But all of a sudden, the Internet is flooded with articles about how Microsoft screwed up...
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1897918/windows-phone-hotel-california-microsd-cards
http://www.infoworld.com/t/smartphones/windows-phone-7-eats-micro-sd-cards-381
http://blog.laptopmag.com/windows-phone-7-traps-your-microsd-card-forever
http://hothardware.com/News/Windows-Phone-7-Allegedly-Breaks-MicroSD-Cards/
The list goes on and on. Granted, the credibility of these blogs and websites are pretty much nonexistent. I'm sure none of these people who wrote these even bothered to actually pick up a WP7 phone. The real story hear is how eager people are for sensationalism, for whatever bias they have. I guess since I'm talking about this issue, they did their job.
Anyway, thanks to xda-devs, I can sort through all this garbage.
I luv you xda-devs!
Infoworld is actually pretty respected. Im surprised they ran that story.
Sounds like PCWorld's diatribe. They are putting out false statements about WP7. Makes me wonder if certain competitors aren't paying for this misinformation.
PCWorld nonsense
That's what happens when the manufacturers are stupid and the users are gullible.
Everyone knew MONTHS upon MONTHS ahead of time not to expect to replace the SD Card, and Manufacturers are putting all sorts of things in place to disuade people from doing it.
But people are still trying to do it, anyways. Some going as far as basically disassembling their phones to get at the card slot (the same slot that probably exists in dozens of other phone types).
That's pretty annoying, but the most annoying thing is the number of threads that popped up after the Windows Phone 7 launch full of people complaining about the phones not working after the SD was replaced (probably with the cheapest, lowest quality SD card they could find), having warranty stickers over the SD slot, or (in the case of the Dell Venure Pro) not even having an Eject Mechanism in the SD Card Slot (to prevent people from removing it - or at least give thems something to think about when they try...).
I think Microsoft had recommended the Manufacturers actually gluing the SD cards in the phones, because they knew what would happen.
MartyLK said:
Sounds like PCWorld's diatribe. They are putting out false statements about WP7. Makes me wonder if certain competitors aren't paying for this misinformation.
PCWorld nonsense
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow... seems like PocketNow and PCWorld don't like each other. Maybe they should take things outside?
@N8ter... good points.
albinojoe said:
Infoworld is actually pretty respected. Im surprised they ran that story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like they ran another story as well that indirectly contradicts the other one...
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7s-sd-card-problem-not-microsofts-fault-385
You can argue whether Windows Phone 7 devices (or iPhones, for that matter) should support standard removable-media formats. But that isn't the point. In this case, Windows Phone 7 is doing exactly what it was designed to do, and what Microsoft said it would do all along.
If Microsoft deserves any blame, it's for relaxing its original "no external storage" rule and letting its hardware partners confuse customers by using a nonproprietary physical standard for a proprietary purpose. I can see why customers are confiused and angry. But blame HTC, LG, and Samsung for this mess. It's their fault.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That pretty much sums it up in my opinion.
N8ter said:
That's what happens when the manufacturers are stupid and the users are gullible.
Everyone knew MONTHS upon MONTHS ahead of time not to expect to replace the SD Card, and Manufacturers are putting all sorts of things in place to disuade people from doing it.
But people are still trying to do it, anyways. Some going as far as basically disassembling their phones to get at the card slot (the same slot that probably exists in dozens of other phone types).
That's pretty annoying, but the most annoying thing is the number of threads that popped up after the Windows Phone 7 launch full of people complaining about the phones not working after the SD was replaced (probably with the cheapest, lowest quality SD card they could find), having warranty stickers over the SD slot, or (in the case of the Dell Venure Pro) not even having an Eject Mechanism in the SD Card Slot (to prevent people from removing it - or at least give thems something to think about when they try...).
I think Microsoft had recommended the Manufacturers actually gluing the SD cards in the phones, because they knew what would happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow! Imagine all the warranty requests or returns that would result from morons that pried on the card to remove it only to break it and then cuss out the manufacturer for putting it in too tight.
Microsoft are to blame for setting the minimum requirement too low and allowing SD cards at all. They and everybody knew that OEMs would make phones with small cards users would want to upgrade.
vangrieg said:
Microsoft are to blame for setting the minimum requirement too low and allowing SD cards at all. They and everybody knew that OEMs would make phones with small cards users would want to upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually know guys that would argue with anyone who told them the card wasn't replaceable (as in expandable storage). Their rationality would be that it's a MicroSD card, it has to be replaceable. And they are ones whom you would not convince otherwise.
vangrieg said:
Microsoft are to blame for setting the minimum requirement too low and allowing SD cards at all. They and everybody knew that OEMs would make phones with small cards users would want to upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Users knew the phones wouldn't be upgradeable.
They should have just not brought a phone with a small storage capacity.
The only way to run out of space on a 8GB storage capacity WP7 device is to download every song you listen to on Zune Pass (but you can set Zune to not use all you storage... trivially) and load it up with Games (and at 250MB a game even that is a bit much... how many games do you play really?).
That being said. I do think 8GB capacity should be reserved for low-mid end smartphones with low-mid end pricing.
I personally wouldn't pay that much for an 8GB device. That's why I brought a Vibrant even though I was carrier shopping at the time and there were 8GB Droid X's, Evos, Droid Incredibles, etc. available. For some people: No, they don't need all that space, but knowing it's available gives them an extreme level of comfort. I'm one of those people.
But I won't go buy an 8GB device and then complain that it doesn't have enough storage - especially when I knew what the specs were, and that the cards wouldn't be user replaceable, weeks to months ahead of their release.
MartyLK said:
I actually know guys that would argue with anyone who told them the card wasn't replaceable (as in expandable storage). Their rationality would be that it's a MicroSD card, it has to be replaceable. And they are ones whom you would not convince otherwise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those are the same people who were ignorantly ripping out PCMCIA Cards and unplugging USB Mass Storage devices back when they they weren't so "hot pluggable" and the icon in the system tray popped up a tip obviously telling them to click there and select "Remove Device" before they actually removed it.
Nothing can help these people.
smuook said:
Being a new Samsung Focus owner, I'm as stupified as everyone else about the microsd problems. This is a major upgrade option that should have been ready to go at WP7 launch. You would think Samsung and AT&T would have a vested interest in getting this right. Shame on them. But as I'm searching the Interent trying to find information on the correct cards, all I see is a flood of "so-called" experts bashing Microsoft and trying to make this into a big scandal. The truth is, Microsoft put this information out 8 months ago...
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2361377,00.asp
But all of a sudden, the Internet is flooded with articles about how Microsoft screwed up...
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1897918/windows-phone-hotel-california-microsd-cards
http://www.infoworld.com/t/smartphones/windows-phone-7-eats-micro-sd-cards-381
http://blog.laptopmag.com/windows-phone-7-traps-your-microsd-card-forever
http://hothardware.com/News/Windows-Phone-7-Allegedly-Breaks-MicroSD-Cards/
The list goes on and on. Granted, the credibility of these blogs and websites are pretty much nonexistent. I'm sure none of these people who wrote these even bothered to actually pick up a WP7 phone. The real story hear is how eager people are for sensationalism, for whatever bias they have. I guess since I'm talking about this issue, they did their job.
Anyway, thanks to xda-devs, I can sort through all this garbage.
I luv you xda-devs!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow, what misinformation. Funny how this new formatting technology has been around for a long time.
smuook said:
Looks like they ran another story as well that indirectly contradicts the other one...
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7s-sd-card-problem-not-microsofts-fault-385
That pretty much sums it up in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as you use a class2 sandisk, it seems ok.
MartyLK said:
Wow! Imagine all the warranty requests or returns that would result from morons that pried on the card to remove it only to break it and then cuss out the manufacturer for putting it in too tight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why would that be a warranty claim? Taking apart your phone voids the warranty.
MartyLK said:
I actually know guys that would argue with anyone who told them the card wasn't replaceable (as in expandable storage). Their rationality would be that it's a MicroSD card, it has to be replaceable. And they are ones whom you would not convince otherwise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the rational of "microsd is replaceable" is correct. any microsd laying on a table is considered a user-replaceable piece of hardware. any, and all microsd inside a phone, camera, laptop, etc is considered a user replaceable piece of hardware. it's a very simple piece of user replaceable hardware, and that's why it's given in the microsd format (size, shape, storage type).
placing a warrantee sticker over a portion of the phone/device is ASKING for people to pry it away and see what is underneath. warrantee be damned, if the hardware is purchased by a user, it now belongs to said user, reguardless of what a UELA says.
the right way to spec a cheaper board (beit OEM or M$) and then plop on a microsd for storage would have been to put it in a place the user couldn't access. complete disassembly of the phone would have made more sense. glueing it in without sandwiching it between layers of phone would have been a bad idea also. users would damage the phone trying to remove, as stated already.
the decision to use a striped microsd card in a user accessible location was just a poor choice. soldering a 8,16, or 32Gb chip on would have been much better. call it iphone-esque, but it wouldn't have been in discussion or confusion -now-.
also
what happened to the "proprietary sdcard" statement i've seen in the past ? has it been debunked, or is it still current ?
sidenote: i'm all for cheap, huge buckets of microsd storage myself.
A chip would be better but more expensive. OEMs just opted for a cheaper option, as usual.
nrfitchett4 said:
wow, what misinformation. Funny how this new formatting technology has been around for a long time.
As long as you use a class2 sandisk, it seems ok.
why would that be a warranty claim? Taking apart your phone voids the warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say it was rational or logical. "Moron" is all I needed to say. You know...the type that shoots themselves in the face while looking down the barrel of a gun to see if there's a bullet inside. They then make claims against the gun maker saying it was unsafe. The gun should not fire when pointed at your face.
ohgood said:
the rational of "microsd is replaceable" is correct. any microsd laying on a table is considered a user-replaceable piece of hardware. any, and all microsd inside a phone, camera, laptop, etc is considered a user replaceable piece of hardware. it's a very simple piece of user replaceable hardware, and that's why it's given in the microsd format (size, shape, storage type).
placing a warrantee sticker over a portion of the phone/device is ASKING for people to pry it away and see what is underneath. warrantee be damned, if the hardware is purchased by a user, it now belongs to said user, reguardless of what a UELA says.
the right way to spec a cheaper board (beit OEM or M$) and then plop on a microsd for storage would have been to put it in a place the user couldn't access. complete disassembly of the phone would have made more sense. glueing it in without sandwiching it between layers of phone would have been a bad idea also. users would damage the phone trying to remove, as stated already.
the decision to use a striped microsd card in a user accessible location was just a poor choice. soldering a 8,16, or 32Gb chip on would have been much better. call it iphone-esque, but it wouldn't have been in discussion or confusion -now-.
also
what happened to the "proprietary sdcard" statement i've seen in the past ? has it been debunked, or is it still current ?
sidenote: i'm all for cheap, huge buckets of microsd storage myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it is acceptable to require a company to foot the bill for stupidity? If the owner removes the warranty sticker knowing it voids the warranty, do they have the right to seek warranty repairs when they F it up?
There's only one device with a card that's easily installed, the Focus. The rest make it hard to get to. AT&T and Samsung were advertising this feature, basically against Microsoft's wishes. Now they're all having to backpedal.
I believe there's a software issue here that is exacerbating these problems. The OS is just not resilient enough. I hope Microsoft resolves the software issues and allows more OEMs to ship devices like the Focus which gives the user the choice in how much storage someone needs. 8gb (the WP7 minimum) is PLENTY of storage for a vast number of people. But many of us want more. I'm OK (but not overly joyed) with the cards not being able to be reformatted. Just have to pretend that the storage is embedded.
Regardless of what Microsoft has posted in the past, they had to know about the Focus having the slot long before it was released. So, they obviously planned to allow it at some level. Now, they have only focused on saying that it is not swappable without a hard reset.
Personally, I am glad the slot is there on the Focus. I wouldn't have bought the Focus otherwise. I don't like the Surround or the LG WP7 devices, and I need atleast 16GB of storage. I now have 24GB and I have not had a single problem. I initially had an 8GB Centon Class 6 and replaced that with a 16GB PNY Class 2. I was able to reformat the Centon, using a Nokia Symbian phone, and gave it to a friend to use in his Focus.
I am not sure how or why Samsung was able to offer the accessible SD slot, but I am glad they did.
As far as the media is concerned, the quality of journalism with the online blogs (and even PC-World and other "respected" publications) has been in a decline for the last few years. Ever since blogging started becoming so mainstream, the publications have turned into an assimily of the type FOX, NBC, CNN, etc. fight for ratings or viewers. It is very disappointing.
Apple's "debacle" with the iPhone 4 antenna wasn't anything close to what some made it out to be but Apple still paid a pretty steep price for it. What comes around goes around. If people weren't so gullible or taken to this endless "Us vs Them" mentality, none of this would be an issue.
Personally, I stuck a Sandisk 8GB class 2 card in my Focus and with like 2GB or available storage free it still works as perfectly as it did the day I bought the phone. Something else, too...I didn't waste my time with SD cards in WinMo phones because they were even slower than the rest of the phone. Whatever Microsoft did has improved I/O speed by a magnitude and I welcome it.
Related
http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/mix10-microsoft-cuts-copy-paste-feature-from-windows-phone-7-series
http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/mix1...have-a-file-manager-nor-usb-mass-storage-mode
http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/microsoft-no-windows-mobile-compatibility-on-windows-phone-7-series
http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/mix10-windows-phone-7-series-apps-will-use-new-different-drm
Is it just me, or Windows Mobile 7 will SUCK big time? It seems to me, as far as i've been reading and searching the web that microsoft is following apples way with the iphone on the new upcoming os. Where have they lost their head? ???
I don't know about you folks, but in the near future i will be buying myself an HD2 with good old WM 6.x.x. Makes sense to me! spending so much on a phone, at least it has to let me copy and paste at my own will!
MS gone Apple
Looks like WinMo7 is MS's attempt to copy everything that make the iPhone suck. If I wanted an iPhone, I would have bought an iPhone. My next one will probably be an Android.
no as time goes on i start to think that more & more but im sure as soon as i see a new video on it im prolly gonna want it again
I'm glad to read this, that at least someone has the same thoughts as mine. I really don't think WP7 will be as successful as Android OS, BB OS or even iPhone OS.
FYI it appears copy and paste will be in the RTM or most likely added shortly after.
To be fair Microsoft is trying to cater to a less advanced audience then the typical XDA user, so in that sense it may do well. From the XDA perspective as long as it gets rooted/jailbreaked/whatever, that isn't terribly different then flashing a HSPL and a custom rom. My only dislike is the lack of storage card, hopefully they will let up on this issue. The SDK is only managed code, this makes programs in general less dangerous and quicker to develop. On the other hand you loose the nitty gritty features XDA users love. Though I imagine having the phone rooted makes both of those points moot. At least you are not one of the people yammering how they are jumping ship to xxxxxx. The OS isn't RTM yet and the gurus haven't touched let a lone disabled all the sandboxing on any WMS7 phones. I somehow doubt the current windows mobile users on here griping are using a stock rom.
Theres no way WP7S will suck! This thread is pretty much useless pointing out on things which others have pointed out in 100 of such threads!
johnlujl123 said:
I'm glad to read this, that at least someone has the same thoughts as mine. I really don't think WP7 will be as successful as Android OS, BB OS or even iPhone OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well at the moment Android isn't very wide-spread! Windows Mobile still got a bigger marketshare. But Google is great in making people use their products so we'll see in two years who will be at the top: WP7 or Android.
iPhone what?
The major issue i see with WP7S is no removable storage.
When the system gets taken apart, all of the other features we are missing (task manager, file system access, multitasking etc) will get put back in by XDA.
But... no removable storage is a biggie...
The problem is... there will be no manufacturers making WP7S devices that have micro sd card slots. Why would they?
Ev0luti0n_ said:
Is it just me, or Windows Mobile 7 will SUCK big time?...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows Mobile 7 did suck, that's why it got dropped for Windows Phone 7 Series
I believe eventually, Blackberry, iPhone and WP7 will be the top smartphone OS (in US) with Android going the way of WM with a small marketshare. Perhaps Android will catch WM one day now that WM was sent to pasture.
Any smartphone without a great ecosystem and super friendly OS will fail to compete with the "big boys"
I prefer not having my storage removable. I never take the card out of the phone anyway, and I hate having to decide where to put everything.
Do I put stuff on the card to preserve memory? Or in memory for speed?
If a phone ships with 8, 16 or 32GB of onboard memory, such concerns become moot, it's all one big lump of storage. This is probably why Microsoft haven't added the functionality to the Marketplace to put software onto the card - there won't BE a card in WP7S. Not only that, developers will be able to rely on the fact there'll be plenty of storage available for their games or whatever. Currently, as cards are optional, the only thing they can rely on is a couple hundred megs of RAM and that's it. So in the end I think this decision had to be made. Your average punter hates having to splash out on a memory card after spending £400-500 on a phone with virtually no storage. It is pretty silly. It would be like purchasing a laptop without a hard drive.
In any case, thus far at least, card storage capacities have not outstripped the onboard memory size of phones such as the iPhone. iPhone has 32GB on board, twice what my HD2 has.
Honestly, how many ordinary users do you think really want to faff around with memory cards? It's been nothing but a hassle for me.
Jim Coleman said:
Honestly, how many ordinary users do you think really want to faff around with memory cards? It's been nothing but a hassle for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true... your average punter would think that removable storage is nothing but extra hassle.
However... when your phone goes tits up and you lose all of your files because you didnt have a backup, the advantage of removable storage becomes abundantly clear.
I for one would rather simply take my micro sd card out of the phone and place it directly into another device to get instantly up and running again.
Yes but it won't be an advantage with WP7 anyway as it won't have file system access and you won't be able to take programs installed on that card from one phone and simply plug it into another. So in WP7 as it is now storage cards are nothing but a hassle.
vangrieg said:
Yes but it won't be an advantage with WP7 anyway as it won't have file system access and you won't be able to take programs installed on that card from one phone and simply plug it into another. So in WP7 as it is now storage cards are nothing but a hassle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah... but you sort of missed the point of my first post....
what i am saying is.... eventually, WP7S will be taken apart and file system access would be possible. So would installing apps outside of the microsoft marketplace.
Therefore... removable storage becomes extremely useful once more,... but there would be no devices running wp7s that actually have micro sd slots.
Forget looking at wp7s as it is now (shockingly bad)... im looking towards the future somewhat...
I hope they put 32 and 64gb chips in phones and not all go with the 8gb minimum.
Kloc said:
I hope they put 32 and 64gb chips in phones and not all go with the 8gb minimum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least one manufacturer will, just to stand out amidst the crowd.
Musicman247 said:
At least one manufacturer will, just to stand out amidst the crowd.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well let me go a little further. I hope HTC puts 32 or 64GB chips in a phone. I hope such phone has a slide out keyboard, and comes to TMO USA.
Audio Oblivion said:
what i am saying is.... eventually, WP7S will be taken apart and file system access would be possible. So would installing apps outside of the microsoft marketplace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No doubt about it, but you can't expect MS to cater to that, can you? Me, I will miss SD card if I do switch to WP7, but built-in flash has its benefits as well, it's faster, actually. I need to be able to copy files there though.
Kloc said:
Well let me go a little further. I hope HTC puts 32 or 64GB chips in a phone. I hope such phone has a slide out keyboard, and comes to TMO USA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And it needs to be super thin.
AND, it needs to come to Sprint.
vangrieg; said:
No doubt about it, but you can't expect MS to cater to that, can you? Me, I will miss SD card if I do switch to WP7, but built-in flash has its benefits as well, it's faster, actually. I need to be able to copy files there though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should still be able to files to and from wp7s although it does not use any storage card. I do that with iPhone now and there's no reason to think it will be any different here.
You can do it on the iPhone after jailbreaking. Without it you can only transfer certain types via sync interfaces. And then you cannot choose which application will use those files.
I mean c'mon!! some of the most elementary things that made WM great, Balmer is ripping out of our arms!
I'm starting to feel like if I'm going to get an HD7, I may as well just go get the iphone...& I HATE the iphone!
Are you an idiot? There is removable storage. Why do you need to access the SD?
As for Swype... the integrated keyboard in WP7 is brilliant, there's no need for it. We're not using Android here.
owenw said:
Are you an idiot? There is removable storage. Why do you need to access the SD?
As for Swype... the integrated keyboard in WP7 is brilliant, there's no need for it. We're not using Android here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, you must be the idiot! If you remove/change the SD card, you void the warrantee!
As for Swype, it was included on the HD2 & if I like that is my business! If it was available on 6.5 it should be easy enough to include on WP7. Why should I have to completely change the way I have been used to typing for almost a year?
Do your research before you throw the "idiot" term around, you end up looking like a bigger one than you accused me of being!
MadLinx said:
Actually, you must be the idiot! If you remove/change the SD card, you void the warrantee!
As for Swype, it was included on the HD2 & if I like that is my business! If it was available on 6.5 it should be easy enough to include on WP7. Why should I have to completely change the way I have been used to typing for almost a year?
Do your research before you throw the "idiot" term around, you end up looking like a bigger one than you accused me of being!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong again champ. You can remove the update the SD on Samsung devices. The warranty you are talking about is with the HD7, because you need to remove screws to get access to the SD Card. So why don't you do some researching?
walshieau said:
Wrong again champ. You can remove the update the SD on Samsung devices. The warranty you are talking about is with the HD7, because you need to remove screws to get access to the SD Card. So why don't you do some researching?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have Champ! thats why I was able to put you in your place about your statement!
MadLinx said:
I have Champ! thats why I was able to put you in your place about your statement!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You obviously can't read then
They were never my statements
I was simply backing up the person who replied to you
As you are incorrect about the warranty. The USER REPLACEABLE SD Slots DON'T VOID the warranty. The HTC ones do.
MadLinx said:
I have Champ! thats why I was able to put you in your place about your statement!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Furthermore, since MS wants to be Neo-Nazi like Apple now (you know the 3 buttons that made it "impossible" for the HD2 to use the WP7 OS) what MS should have done is make the ability to switch out SD cards a mandatory requirement as their precious 3 Buttons.
you still wanna tell me how much of a genius everybody @ MS is now??
walshieau said:
You obviously can't read then
They were never my statements
I was simply backing up the person who replied to you
As you are incorrect about the warranty. The USER REPLACEABLE SD Slots DON'T VOID the warranty. The HTC ones do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I probably read much better than you!
1. when I hit "quote" yours was the profile that came up.
2. that's fine if that's your opinion.
3. I am correct about the warrantee...on the HD7 which is my only WP7 device of interest. Again, it's MS's fault for not making the SD option mandatory.
owenw said:
Are you an idiot? There is removable storage. Why do you need to access the SD?
As for Swype... the integrated keyboard in WP7 is brilliant, there's no need for it. We're not using Android here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you better read this one:
Windows Phone 7 - The filesystem and how it is presented to the user
before call someone an idiot
Just left wondering if this couldnt be addressed in one of the 1,000,000,000 threads covering precisely the same topic?
As for swype, AFAIK it was never available on the HD2 that my carrier sold me... if it wasnt for a .CAB file of questionable legality, i would never have been able to try it. Or is this the problem? Locking the OS down removes all the "free" software we used to run?
mshagg said:
Just left wondering if this couldnt be addressed in one of the 1,000,000,000 threads covering precisely the same topic?
As for swype, AFAIK it was never available on the HD2 that my carrier sold me... if it wasnt for a .CAB file of questionable legality, i would never have been able to try it. Or is this the problem? Locking the OS down removes all the "free" software we used to run?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It WAS included on the OS my carrier sold me. As for being addressed on previous threads, I'm all for condensing. However, when I did a search my findings were lacking in this specific subject.
Perhaps there may be a better indexing system that can be developed to avoid these problems moving forward.
MrKaon said:
you better read this one:
Windows Phone 7 - The filesystem and how it is presented to the user
before call someone an idiot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My response of idiot was in as a result of being accused of being one myself for making points that have been valid & accurate. In reading the post which you pointed me to from March of this year. Reading internal & SD memory as one isn't the problem here. Neither is having to hard reset in order to reconfigure with the new SD card. That post further supports my point about MS really missing the proverbial boat here.
Case in point, removing the HD7's SD card is possible but not without voiding the warrantee. This is not by MS mandate, but if MS is going to be so controlling of other aspects of WP7 why not make sure we the users can upgrade SD card size as WE feel necessary.
My HD2 came with a 16gb SD card, knowing that this would not be enough for ME I upgraded to a 32gb one. I currently have about 22gb of info on my card. If you don't, or don't understand why I have that much data that's fine it's not relevant.
My point simply is this, we all know that these devices are no longer phones...they are mini computers that have a phone in them. That being the case, it should be mandated by MS that we have the option to upgrade our memory on ALL devices not just some!
MadLinx said:
Case in point, removing the HD7's SD card is possible but not without voiding the warrantee.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=807900&page=13
According to what I've read and understand, replacing the card will wipe the system, like a hard reset, because the card is being used as internal memory. They say you can upgrade the card, but you have to start all over again...erasing all accumulated data and info on the device.
What I find ironic is, Balmer has stated the reason for this type of system is because MicroSD tech is very low quality, buggy and problematic. He says the quality and reliability consistency from one card to another varies. And yet MS adopts MicroSD tech for its internal storage on WP7 devices. [scratches head and rolls eyes]
Well Microsoft could of included internal NAND in it's hardware specs but that would of increased the costs of devices and price point is a huge milestone when you're competing against the iPhone.
The most sensible way of keeping costs down while still allowing manufacturers to offer a variety of storage configurations was to use microSDHC.
The point about quality and reliability is a valid one, read Bunnie's blog post if you havn't yet. The way to control this is to not provide the user the ability to access that storage, it is preinstalled in the device.
Some people like Samsung have still chosen to give the user that choice and I think more will over time.
It really isn't that strange.
Oh my god, this is way too funny! Both of you seem pretty ill informed, the WP7 keyboard is perfect but a lot of people still want to use swype. Anyways all I can say is that only the Samsung devices have SD card support and even then it is god awful. You have to format the device to expand the memory? Lol. Anyway, the OS has 10x more freedom than iOS, mainly because it has more access to the hardware. The OS has a lot of downsides and I think its biggest is the lack of developer support, however that should change very soon. Oh, by the way, I hammered this all down on the WP7 keyboard.
JEEtoP said:
Well Microsoft could of included internal NAND in it's hardware specs but that would of increased the costs of devices and price point is a huge milestone when you're competing against the iPhone.
The most sensible way of keeping costs down while still allowing manufacturers to offer a variety of storage configurations was to use microSDHC.
The point about quality and reliability is a valid one, read Bunnie's blog post if you havn't yet. The way to control this is to not provide the user the ability to access that storage, it is preinstalled in the device.
Some people like Samsung have still chosen to give the user that choice and I think more will over time.
It really isn't that strange.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I could have lived with this if HTC used a 32gb card instead of a 16gb, or at least given us a choice between the two...bad decision making. So much for "HTC Quietly Brilliant" SMH
Smokexz said:
Oh my god, this is way too funny! Both of you seem pretty ill informed, the WP7 keyboard is perfect but a lot of people still want to use swype. Anyways all I can say is that only the Samsung devices have SD card support and even then it is god awful. You have to format the device to expand the memory? Lol. Anyway, the OS has 10x more freedom than iOS, mainly because it has more access to the hardware. The OS has a lot of downsides and I think its biggest is the lack of developer support, however that should change very soon. Oh, by the way, I hammered this all down on the WP7 keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In regard to the keyboard, It's all about choice. While the WP7 keyboard is perfect to you, Swype is perfect for me. We should have both.
That's what made 6.5 so great. It's a shame that we probably won't see much more support or development for it.
MartyLK said:
According to what I've read and understand, replacing the card will wipe the system, like a hard reset, because the card is being used as internal memory. They say you can upgrade the card, but you have to start all over again...erasing all accumulated data and info on the device.
What I find ironic is, Balmer has stated the reason for this type of system is because MicroSD tech is very low quality, buggy and problematic. He says the quality and reliability consistency from one card to another varies. And yet MS adopts MicroSD tech for its internal storage on WP7 devices. [scratches head and rolls eyes]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly! I said it jokingly, but sometimes it does seem like an Apple double agent.
MadLinx said:
And I could have lived with this if HTC used a 32gb card instead of a 16gb, or at least given us a choice between the two...bad decision making. So much for "HTC Quietly Brilliant" SMH
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I agree, not just HTC but across the board there was a surprising lack of storage space with the launch handsets.
I'd guess it had something to do with cost-cutting as well as availability of Class 4 32GB cards. The only vendor manufacturing them as far as I can remember is Kingston and they don't seem to be that well stocked.
Oh well, by tomorrow morning my HD7 will be packin' 32GB and my smartphone will be set for the next 18 months
Ok here goes..
I've been using HTC devices since the days of the SPV E100.
Every phone I've had has been Windows mobile based.
Now I am thinking about getting WM7 phone but the hardware is just not quite right.
I managed to get a hold and play with a demo Mozart.
At the moment The mozart is fave because it fits snug in my palm and the camera is 8MP. But that is all. There are some bits I want before jumping in.
Processor ...Check
8 mp Camera ... check
Wifi N.. Check
Micro sd.....Errr if you feel like voiding your warranty
Hdmi out... Nope
FM in/out... Nope
OK now for question time.
Has anyone got a conversion chart to show how much space 1 min/ 5 min /10 mins of 720 video takes up on a Mozart?
Does WM7 switch to a removable storage mode like the old windows?
djfuego said:
Ok here goes..
I've been using HTC devices since the days of the SPV E100.
Every phone I've had has been Windows mobile based.
Now I am thinking about getting WM7 phone but the hardware is just not quite right.
I managed to get a hold and play with a demo Mozart.
At the moment The mozart is fave because it fits snug in my palm and the camera is 8MP. But that is all. There are some bits I want before jumping in.
Processor ...Check
8 mp Camera ... check
Wifi N.. Check
Micro sd.....Errr if you feel like voiding your warranty
Hdmi out... Nope
FM in/out... Nope
OK now for question time.
Has anyone got a conversion chart to show how much space 1 min/ 5 min /10 mins of 720 video takes up on a Mozart?
Does WM7 switch to a removable storage mode like the old windows?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can only answer the last question .
wp7 sees all the storage as one big drive (rom+sd) so lets say "512 MB rom + 16GB sd = 16.5GB of storage (we don't know where it is stored )
and remember ! , you can not swap the sd card and use the DATA on it after swapping.
fm in/out? do you mean an fm receiver? if so, it has one. but no, it cannot act as an fm transmitter.
Cheers
The Gate Keeper said:
fm in/out? do you mean an fm receiver? if so, it has one. but no, it cannot act as an fm transmitter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it does have an FM radio receiver that works on the phone?
I'm looking for wm7 phone with similar features as My old Touch Diamond.
djfuego said:
So it does have an FM radio receiver that works on the phone?
I'm looking for wm7 phone with similar features as My old Touch Diamond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it has fm radio
djfuego said:
So it does have an FM radio receiver that works on the phone?
I'm looking for wm7 phone with similar features as My old Touch Diamond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does but for some reason it only works with uneven frequencies. 105,1 105,3 105,5 etc. Unless I'm missing something obvious.
i got it working for frequency 103.2, so i don't think there is an issue with it.
The Gate Keeper said:
i got it working for frequency 103.2, so i don't think there is an issue with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah it was something obvious. I noticed that there was an option to change from North America to World in settings and now I can access a lot more radio channels.
ceesheim said:
I can only answer the last question .
wp7 sees all the storage as one big drive (rom+sd) so lets say "512 MB rom + 16GB sd = 16.5GB of storage (we don't know where it is stored )
and remember ! , you can not swap the sd card and use the DATA on it after swapping.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems counter intuitive. Is there any legitimate reason for this?
ms simply does not allow swapping memory cards for "security reasons" and would like you to use their cloud. which provides you with 25GB(?) of additional storage. for that matter there is simply no need for more storage unless you want to beat the upcoming iPhone 5 with 64GB build in. who needs that?
the internal storag card is somehow "glued" to the device. so even if you find it its just not worth the hassle. for a big upgrade it might be worth to void the warranty, but not for a daily swapping.
nehvada said:
ms simply does not allow swapping memory cards for "security reasons" and would like you to use their cloud. which provides you with 25GB(?) of additional storage. for that matter there is simply no need for more storage unless you want to beat the upcoming iPhone 5 with 64GB build in. who needs that?
the internal storag card is somehow "glued" to the device. so even if you find it its just not worth the hassle. for a big upgrade it might be worth to void the warranty, but not for a daily swapping.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WEll Im not a fan of the cloud, I prefer direct control over my own data. I feel the cloud is bad for data security and integrity. I do not see how a removable storage device is less secure than some random servers that could be located anywhere. And with my current phone I have the option to use "The Cloud" or my Sd cards or both. Why would anyone think it is beneficial for their options to be reduced? Why should I put my personal data into the hands of a complete stranger?
the argument behind the use of cloud over local storage is similar to the one of android vs windows phone.
basically, the reason they made the microSD cards not "hot swappable" is so that they can encrypt the whole card. this way, noone can just come around and take the card out of the phone and get all of it's contents.
in terms of cloud vs local storage and which is more secure, really, neither can be said to be completely secure if you're on the internet. that includes your phone. if your phone uses data, then it's not secure, that includes bluetooth. pretty much everything is hackable. though that is the worst case scenario. in terms of putting your information in strangers hands, you merely being on the internet is doing that. in the hands of google, microsoft, and any other service that tracks cookies, browser patterns, etc. so really, your information is everywhere.
Security is more than just whether your data is secure from hackers. It also keeps app developers' data safe from you. MS knows that they need good apps to sell the platform, and to get devs to put forth the effort they have to show that the platform won't allow the ease of piracy that Android users have become accustomed to. Yes, it is a tradeoff, and it might not be for you, but I do not see that changing anytime soon, so if you wanna go WP7, that's what you're looking at.
I have to admit that the idea really did not appeal to me in theory when I first heard it. No one likes the idea of giving up a freedom. However, after using my Focus for a while, I have found that, for me at least, it is far outweighed by the positive changes.
That being said, the last thing this forum needs is yet another thread devolving into a nonremovable storage bashing session vs. WP7 fanboy argument, so I'm just gonna suggest that you really honestly try out 7 before nailing it over a point or two. It is a much larger change from 6.5 than can be really explained by a quick bullet point list, and really deserves to be approached with a fresh mindset. If it works out, awesome. If it doesn't, then that's just where you're at.
The Gate Keeper said:
the argument behind the use of cloud over local storage is similar to the one of android vs windows phone.
basically, the reason they made the microSD cards not "hot swappable" is so that they can encrypt the whole card. this way, noone can just come around and take the card out of the phone and get all of it's contents.
in terms of cloud vs local storage and which is more secure, really, neither can be said to be completely secure if you're on the internet. that includes your phone. if your phone uses data, then it's not secure, that includes bluetooth. pretty much everything is hackable. though that is the worst case scenario. in terms of putting your information in strangers hands, you merely being on the internet is doing that. in the hands of google, microsoft, and any other service that tracks cookies, browser patterns, etc. so really, your information is everywhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FL5 said:
Security is more than just whether your data is secure from hackers. It also keeps app developers' data safe from you. MS knows that they need good apps to sell the platform, and to get devs to put forth the effort they have to show that the platform won't allow the ease of piracy that Android users have become accustomed to. Yes, it is a tradeoff, and it might not be for you, but I do not see that changing anytime soon, so if you wanna go WP7, that's what you're looking at.
I have to admit that the idea really did not appeal to me in theory when I first heard it. No one likes the idea of giving up a freedom. However, after using my Focus for a while, I have found that, for me at least, it is far outweighed by the positive changes.
That being said, the last thing this forum needs is yet another thread devolving into a nonremovable storage bashing session vs. WP7 fanboy argument, so I'm just gonna suggest that you really honestly try out 7 before nailing it over a point or two. It is a much larger change from 6.5 than can be really explained by a quick bullet point list, and really deserves to be approached with a fresh mindset. If it works out, awesome. If it doesn't, then that's just where you're at.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, if it ever gets ported to HD2 ill try it out , or ill have a look at my friends mozart , but aside from that even tho I still have my concerns I agree this is not the place for argument, and even though I only partly agree with the answers, they did give me somthing to think about and thanks for answering my questions.
Forgive me if this had been discussed before, but does anyone have any idea why Microsoft would program an OS that supposedly was built from the ground up to NOT support external MicroSD cards? It would seem that in this day and age that it would have been in the top 5 list of "had to be included." Instead they gave the manufacturers their specs for 8GB of internal RAM and that was it. What in the world was Microsoft thinking?
I'm actually happy that Samsung said "screw that" and made a MicroSD slot that was user accessible. That basically forced Microsoft to rethink their strategy, especially after the first patch "fiasco."
Does anyone here have any inside information as to why the MicroSD card wasn't on their list of "must have" for Windows 7? Do you think they were trying to pull an Apple strategy where they can sell an 8GB phone, a 16GB phone, and a 32GB phone to try to make more money?
MicroSD cards ARE supported by WP7, in fact all but a few WP7 devices have them.
What you are looking for is called "removable" & "user-accessible"/"upgradeable" storage.
Scrtcwlvl said:
MicroSD cards ARE supported by WP7, in fact all but a few WP7 devices have them.
What you are looking for is called "removable" & "user-accessible"/"upgradeable" storage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well all the HTC ones use microSD, as well as the DELL Venue Pro, where as all LG phones use NAND, and Samsung uses NAND (with the exception of focus offering an external microSD slot).
The main reason why MS didn't want it exposed is because of the way it uses the microSD card. The use of it in an actual secured RAID 0 format means that it makes the card unusable by any other means making the data secure on the chip. And they knew that people would complain so they didn't want the OEMs to offer it as a user accessible slot, but they didn't enforce it. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing though.
The Gate Keeper said:
And they knew that people would complain so they didn't want the OEMs to offer it as a user accessible slot, but they didn't enforce it. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess now that the genie is out of be bottle it appears that Microsoft will now need to address this dilemma. It appears that people are okay with the idea that once the microSD card is used by a WP7 phone that it can't be reused in something else. I know I'm okay with it if the phone is functional with more space to save music, videos, games, etc. I currently have a 8GB card in my phone, but what I really wanted was a 32GB card but after hearing how unstable it was I held back. It was the inability to use the 32GB card that made me ask the original question.
nathantw said:
I guess now that the genie is out of be bottle it appears that Microsoft will now need to address this dilemma. It appears that people are okay with the idea that once the microSD card is used by a WP7 phone that it can't be reused in something else. I know I'm okay with it if the phone is functional with more space to save music, videos, games, etc. I currently have a 8GB card in my phone, but what I really wanted was a 32GB card but after hearing how unstable it was I held back. It was the inability to use the 32GB card that made me ask the original question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung Focus' implementation of SD is flawed either in hardware level or software level or both. There is no problem using any size or type of SD cards in any other WP7 phones not made by Samsung. MicroSD cards have been around for very long time. There is really no reason for a phone, especially one that is designed to take user removeable SD card, to not support all kinds of cards.
Now you have Samsung Focus not only doesn't support majority of SD cards out there but also refuses to accept updates from Micrsoft. It sounds like Samsung has a hatrate against WP7
I think MS saw the problems that Android had with removable storage and decided to require a minimum of 8gb and do away with any sort of removable storage. This makes the OS more stable as a whole.
i think MS did not want ppl to load android on WP7 dvice thats why they did this to the memory card...
They're trying to stop piracy, there's many Android sites out there on the internet that'll give you APKs of premium android apps that have been ripped off people's memory cards and uploaded.
It doesn't help that with Android you have 24 hours to request a refund and therefore can buy, rip from memory card and refund.
It may seem bad to you but from a developer point of view it's awesome. And before anyone goes on about encryption etc, people will find a way to hack through that they always do.
brummiesteven said:
It doesn't help that with Android you have 24 hours to request a refund and therefore can buy, rip from memory card and refund.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe this is now only 15 minutes, which a lot of people think is a bit too short of a time frame as well. this is why the setup MS did was quite smart, offering the capabilities for devs to implement a trial mode within their full app.
^ care to check facts first. 24 hours?
..........edit .... gate keeper beat me to it.
You can also say the same for IOS, and WebOS. Piracy will come, there is no stopping it.
The Gate Keeper said:
i believe this is now only 15 minutes, which a lot of people think is a bit too short of a time frame as well. this is why the setup MS did was quite smart, offering the capabilities for devs to implement a trial mode within their full app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
which is still enough time to rip the apk and still get a refund.
And as I sit here being frustrated that more devs are going to an ad supported model, I think I have found the reason why....
yea it is enough time to perform that. but to a general user 15 minutes isn't enough time to see if the app was worth the purchase.
the market place needs better search capabilities for trial apps, that's all. once they are there, then more people will start using the trial apps and if they deem it worth it they would buy it.
I started writing this post in another thread but I felt it was better off in it's own. Please read it in full if you're going to respond, I know it's long but you'll just look silly if you don't:
The reality is that most data plans are limited to 500MB, or if you're lucky 1GB, and for the vast majority of users this is way more than enough - in my case I do occasionally go over, which is why I'm on a plan where I just pay £5 per 500MB, it might not be the cheapest option but it's the best for me, and my bills are normally £30 a month, which is very reasonable for the quality of service I get.
Most people will never use the cloud features on their phones, in reality. Fair enough, some people will require a phone with a larger storage capacity. It would be nice to see some phones with larger storage, but there is a massive problem: take a phone with big storage, or with storage size options, to a mobile network, and they'll just charge an absolute fortune for it, so nobody will buy it. That limits your market to SIM free devices- and maybe a few people will buy it then, but probably not enough to make it worth your while.
What you guys that want extra storage have to prove is that you can get enough people on board to make it worthwhile for Samsung/HTC/Nokia to get out of bed and do it. With android/iPhone that isn't a problem because average joe will buy it regardless and probably won't have a clue what they're buying, but Windows Phone is a harder sell, despite being a better system (in a lot of our opinons, I believe).
In the meantime, firstly why are videos so important to you? On a 4" screen my eyesight would be pretty screwed after about half an hour, which is why I have a 32GB Android tablet for videos, with a nice comfortable 10" screen, and it just stays in the bag that comes with me. On the odd occasion I don't have my tablet, then Youtube is normally more than enough and using it only occasionally doesn't hack out at my data plan.
For music, I don't know of anybody who actually listens to their entire music collection on their phone, and in my own perfect world I wish people would realise this. My way around not being able to store all of my music on my phone is to just have a smart playlist of tracks that I have starred, automatically synchronising 250 of my starred tracks to my phone at random- that way I have a nice selection of music I know I like, which in a way is better because I'm making better use of my collection, and I get nice surprises occasionally.
In summary, I just want to ask of everyone: Please just remember almost nobody is in the same precise position as you. It's great that there is a large range of people here with a range of opinions, but you have to understand that assuming that everybody is the same as you is just going to annoy people. There is nothing wrong with expressing that you would like a phone with more internal storage - but say it, then move on. Don't carry on saying it over and over. And if you don't want a phone with more internal storage, say it, then move on. Don't start arguments because you don't agree with people.
I personally love my HTC 7 Pro and won't be changing it. It isn't perfect, but I'm not going to moan endlessly about what's wrong with it, I'm going to give my opinion where it's relevant, and if there's a good response I'll back it up with my reasoning. That's how forums should work.
andrewkeith5 said:
What you guys that want extra storage have to prove is that you can get enough people on board to make it worthwhile for Samsung/HTC/Nokia to get out of bed and do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The best way to show OEMs that it's worthwile would be for one of them to have one out and for the others to see how it sells. Not by having everyone on this forum sending them a letter. The question is they don't they make the effort, at least once? When you see a N9 with 64GB and a Lumia 800 with 16GB it hurts.
Really not sure why its thought only apple can accomplish things like having a smartphone line with large storage options. There's a very simple solution to this: offer a larger 32GB storage option at a $100 premium in limited quantities (just like Dell did with the DVP) and see what happens. In Dell's case it didn't sell well (likely due to their distribution model) and it was withdrawn. OEM's like HTC and Samsung will be better placed to make this option work but again, have the option to withdraw the higher priced option.
In any case, it seems they are still in softly softly mode with WP7 so I doubt anyone but Nokia will be the first to offer higher levels of storage. The cloud though is absolutely not the blanket solution for everybody, though it works for some but for others the current storage options will definitely be insufficient.
Apple did perfectly well. They decided to remove slot for SD cards but logically they offered 32GB and 64GB versions of their devices in order to compensate the loss of expandable storage.
Microsoft removed the SD card slot but is unable to propose any hardware having more than 16GB (actually it is only 13.2GB once the OS is installed).
Sorry but this is not acceptable.
Apple has only one hardware and offers you the choice.
MS works with several OEM and fails to propose more than 16GB.
The lack of storage, the lack of alternative finally made me switch to Android.
Congrats Microsoft !
Good responses, thanks! I think the main reason that none of the OEMs has released a higher capacity model is sheer numbers.
With Android, even if the high capacity model sells 10% of the volume of the low capacity version, that's still a lot of units. With WP7, though, the sales of the single model probably aren't enough to justify making variations as that will just make it harder to sell to the distributor (the network, mainly).
Like you efjay, I'm hopeful that with Nokia on board and Mango being more like the sort of feature-rich software people demand volumes will slowly start to increase and the manufacturers will start to break their model ranges into more variants.
IMHO a MASSIVE problem with the distribution models as they are is exclusivity - with WP7, the absolute key is going to be making every device available everywhere, so as many people see it/try it/want it as conceivably possible. With exclusives, you're limiting distribution of an already limited distribution product, and that's going to harm growth.
arturobandini said:
Apple did perfectly well. They decided to remove slot for SD cards but logically they offered 32GB and 64GB versions of their devices in order to compensate the loss of expandable storage.
Microsoft removed the SD card slot but is unable to propose any hardware having more than 16GB (actually it is only 13.2GB once the OS is installed).
Sorry but this is not acceptable.
Apple has only one hardware and offers you the choice.
MS works with several OEM and fails to propose more than 16GB.
The lack of storage, the lack of alternative finally made me switch to Android.
Congrats Microsoft !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said that Apple didn't do well. What I said, was that WP7 has to be targeted at a big, but specific type of consumer base to work well, and that most of that consumer base probably don't know or care how much storage they have - once the volumes increase, then there will be more variants with more storage, but right now there is no incentive to provide high capacity variants because the networks will price them out of the market and they won't sell to joe public.
andrewkeith5 said:
IMHO a MASSIVE problem with the distribution models as they are is exclusivity - with WP7, the absolute key is going to be making every device available everywhere, so as many people see it/try it/want it as conceivably possible. With exclusives, you're limiting distribution of an already limited distribution product, and that's going to harm growth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Difference here is the territory. In Europe (and the UK in particular) the Lumia devices will be on practically every carrier (except it seems O2 cos of their iphone love) and are being backed by a huge marketing campaign and incentives to customers and probably sales staff. You can even pre-order the Nokia phones which has never happened for any other WP7 device. In the US however, the story is radically different - T-Mobile has announced only 1 new device, nothing for Sprint and Verizon, which leaves at&t who will have 3 new devices and none of these devices are being given special treatment, rather they are just being thrown up on the carrier's website with no fanfare. With that kind of lopsided distribution and lack of promotion, along with the acknowledged bias, its no wonder WP7 struggles in the US, and that really is down to poor carrier support. US carriers have no problem stocking the same android model but WP7 is largely ignored. Until that changes there is no way WP7 is going to make nay headway, at least in the US.
I think though, that with Nokia's media push, brand recognition and seemingly well liked devices WP7 can do very well in Europe. It will be interesting to see the sales figures for the Lumia 800/710 this holiday compared to other handsets in Europe and the US. The US looks like it will continue to have a poor selection of WP7 devices and be dominated by ios and android.
andrewkeith5 said:
1) Most people will never use the cloud features on their phones, in reality. Fair enough, some people will require a phone with a larger storage capacity. It would be nice to see some phones with larger storage, but there is a massive problem: take a phone with big storage, or with storage size options, to a mobile network, and they'll just charge an absolute fortune for it, so nobody will buy it. That limits your market to SIM free devices- and maybe a few people will buy it then, but probably not enough to make it worth your while.
2) In the meantime, firstly why are videos so important to you? On a 4" screen my eyesight would be pretty screwed after about half an hour, which is why I have a 32GB Android tablet for videos, with a nice comfortable 10" screen, and it just stays in the bag that comes with me. On the odd occasion I don't have my tablet, then Youtube is normally more than enough and using it only occasionally doesn't hack out at my data plan.
3) to just have a smart playlist of tracks that I have starred, automatically synchronising 250 of my starred tracks to my phone at random- that way I have a nice selection of music I know I like, which in a way is better because I'm making better use of my collection, and I get nice surprises occasionally.
4) In summary, I just want to ask of everyone: Please just remember almost nobody is in the same precise position as you. It's great that there is a large range of people here with a range of opinions, but you have to understand that assuming that everybody is the same as you is just going to annoy people. There is nothing wrong with expressing that you would like a phone with more internal storage - but say it, then move on. Don't carry on saying it over and over. And if you don't want a phone with more internal storage, say it, then move on. Don't start arguments because you don't agree with people.
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Click to collapse
1) cloud features, like uploading audio, video, pictures, documents, (FILES) whenever, wherever ? this is extremely important. look at the protests, police brutality, natural disasters, and corruption caught by cell phone cameras. without an instant upload, the phone could be confiscated, the person punished (off record beating) and the public never the wiser. cloud = power, pricey for data or not, it is powerful.
2) videos are something fun to share, with family, friends, coworkers. renting a movie on youtube/itunes/whatever and showing the funny part to a friend is a blast, and stimulates more purchases/rents normally. self-shot videos are fun to share instantly, with other smart phones, via bluetooth or wifi... and guarantees there is a copy should you drop yours in the water/mud/etc. the option of streaming that movie to your 32Gb whatever-pad is awesome, and should be standard practice now. how are you going to watch the HD 3D video you just shot with your smart phone with poor vision , unless you can transfer it to the 32Gb somehow ? this is where wp7 fails, because of whatever reason they restricted moving files around and file access.
3) personally i only keep 2-3Gb of music on my phone. most of it is synced 2-3 times a month now, rented or bought from amazon/whoever, or just ripped from a cd. music is a non-issue, with a 32Gb microsd card. <--- this is another thing I can't understand microsoft crippling.
4) yep, understood. data plans are getting rediculously expensive by the month. 1Gb for $30 ? but then pack on tons of 'apps' that eat data 24/7 as oem junk ? all the US carriers are really sucking in this requard. they have the bandwidth, they have the infrastructure, but greeeeeeeeeed is creating a suck-zone of expense for anyone expecting "UNLIMITED" anything.
Of they support as cards the whole price argument falls on its face. Either support sd or offer more storage options. The cloud is terrible. It leads to worse battery life due to the constant downloading and it can be a terrible experience if reception isn't great where you are.
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I agree that there are some that may need more space but to spam articles and forums saying that the phone or generation of phones (even tho not complete yet) are going to fail because it doesn't meet that particular persons need is wrong. Take me for example, I'm disappointed that the T-mobile radar has only 8gb of space but I'm not going around saying it's going to be a failure because of it.
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JustinTV773 said:
I agree that there are some that may need more space but to spam articles and forums saying that the phone or generation of phones (even tho not complete yet) are going to fail because it doesn't meet that particular persons need is wrong. Take me for example, I'm disappointed that the T-mobile radar has only 8gb of space but I'm not going around saying it's going to be a failure because of it.
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The radar is a mid range device. Its comparable to focus flash not focus s.
The storage is a huge problem.
They pushing away early adapters with that, and thats their only marketing worth mentioning right now (their fanbois).
The focus s has < 13gb free on a fresh boot... ... ...
Again. With sd support, the low storage would be nonfactor.
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Right now the best and only option for over 32gb of storage is a first gen Focus. If you want storage get this phone for $0.01 from at&t and spend the money for a 32gb card. I really wanted to upgrade from my focus to something with a FFC but I guess I am a customer that wants too much. It is too much to want a phone with lots of storage AND a FFC. So that means I won't be spending any money on a phone any time soon I guess. Someone lost a sale.
To the OP: I do not carry my entire music collection on my phone. I do however have 15 GB of music on my phone and listen to at least 3 hours of it daily. Like others have mentioned. Apple offers more storage options so you can't say it isn't wanted. Secondly, why should the price be the same if OEMs aren't adding more storage?
bennyj71 said:
To the OP: I do not carry my entire music collection on my phone. I do however have 15 GB of music on my phone and listen to at least 3 hours of it daily. Like others have mentioned. Apple offers more storage options so you can't say it isn't wanted. Secondly, why should the price be the same if OEMs aren't adding more storage?
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This kind of makes my point....15GBs of music by most compression standards amounts to roughly 150 hrs of music, of which this user listens to "at least 3 hours" of daily. Really? And this is supposed to back up the argument for needing more space? Really? And what about video? How much USEFUL video do most of us actually carry around on our phones? If I have a video, that means that Ive probably already seen it and, unlike music, have no reason to be carrying it around with me on my phone. Like most people (I believe) the vast majority of videos that I watch on my phone are streamed i.e YouTube, Netflix etc.
(and as for Apple [on the 4s only] offering more storage meaning that there is suddenly a demand, do not forget that the 2 best selling phones in the world are iphones with 8 and 16 GBs of total storage)
My point is: Unless your phone is your ONLY piece of hardware i.e. NO computer etc., somebody who is complaining about needing 32GBs+ of media storage on their PHONE please in some kind of detail explain how you are actually making use of anywhere close to even 1/10th of it on a daily basis.
That's only music. What about video documents and large apps and games - some of which are 200mb to 2gb just by themselves.
I think your point leaves out obvious things that must be considered.
Storage is only a problem on this platform, and no other. Even feature phones support 32g sd cards these days...
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I love how all your facts include "I" somewhere in the sentence.
The low gb phones sell will because they're the cheapest skus. Cheaper always sells more.
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N8ter said:
That's only music. What about video documents and large apps and games - some of which are 200mb to 2gb just by themselves.
I think your point leaves out obvious things that must be considered.
Storage is only a problem on this platform, and no other. Even feature phones support 32g sd cards these days...
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Thats only music? Yes, as I pointed out, thats WAY WAY more music than you could actually have any realistic use for on your phone unless you were stranded on the moon for a year. And how many gigs of video (that you've most likey already seen) do you really carry around with you on your phone and make use of on a daily basis?
Like I challenged: if you really need 32GBs+ of storage explain how you actually (in detail) use it all up and actually make use of it.
N8ter said:
I love how all your facts include "I" somewhere in the sentence.
The low gb phones sell will because they're the cheapest skus. Cheaper always sells more.
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Nitpicking when he uses I to try to cover up your wrongness is quite funny. Cheapest sells more? Not necessarily, the 250GB Xbox 360 outsold the 4GB one even tho it was $100 cheaper. That's just one example.
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JustinTV773 said:
Nitpicking when he uses I to try to cover up your wrongness is quite funny. Cheapest sells more? Not necessarily, the 250GB Xbox 360 outsold the 4GB one even tho it was $100 cheaper. That's just one example.
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I tend to agree that 8 & 16GB phones sell more because of being cheaper. But when a person wants something larger, they will go to whatever is available instead of settling for the smaller capacities. Myself as an example. When I bought my iPhone 4, I originally bought a 16GB because it was $100 cheaper and then started seeing how the games were filling it up rapidly after all of my music and pictures and other media were on it. I chose to return it for a 32GB model and even payed the return fee to get one.
I know there is a percentage of customers MS will lose out on because of the lower capacity phones they are choosing to stay with. Apple looks to get all customers rather than a majority who may be satisfied with 8 or 16GB.
There will be a percentage of customers that Microsoft lose out on, but I guess they know that, they are not stupid.
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