Develop Bugs

Some WP7 phones will feature a "SD card slot underneath the battery cover"

Interesting.....
Some Windows Phones have a Secure Digital (SD) card that's used to expand the amount of storage space on the phone. If your phone has one, it's in an SD card slot underneath the battery cover on the back of your phone.
Windows Phone uses a special high–performance SD card that works differently than SD cards in other devices. When your phone is built and first set up, its internal storage and SD card are combined and recognized as one storage system.
Warning
You should not remove the SD card in your phone or replace it with a new one because your Windows Phone won't work properly. Existing data on the phone may be lost, and that SD card can't be used in other devices or Windows Phones.
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Seems pretty bogus to me that they're unique to WP7 mechanically. Maybe just the file system is special? Should allow upgrading/replacing I would think.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/howto/wp7/basics/sd-cards-and-my-phone.aspx

RustyGrom said:
Interesting.....
Seems pretty bogus to me that they're unique to WP7 mechanically. Maybe just the file system is special? Should allow upgrading/replacing I would think.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/howto/wp7/basics/sd-cards-and-my-phone.aspx
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yes you could but would have to re-flash your rom.

rruffman said:
yes you could but would have to re-flash your rom.
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Click to collapse
Source? All we have is rumors but the MS page implies that it's not that easy.

I figure you might get a chance to swap the card properly before first boot, i.e. right after unboxing.
--edit: On the other hand, might these be those new SD cards with additional contacts to allow very highspeed IO. (new UHS-I standard)

Tom Servo said:
I figure you might get a chance to swap the card properly before first boot, i.e. right after unboxing.
--edit: On the other hand, might these be those new SD cards with additional contacts to allow very highspeed IO. (new UHS-I standard)
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Click to collapse
yes they are so if you get your hands on one then you are correct before boot 1st time or if you reflash your phone. i read it on a few blogs awhile back will have to find it again and repost it here...

RustyGrom said:
Interesting.....
Seems pretty bogus to me that they're unique to WP7 mechanically. Maybe just the file system is special? Should allow upgrading/replacing I would think.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/howto/wp7/basics/sd-cards-and-my-phone.aspx
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Click to collapse
The cards themselves might not be that special other than having a correct SN range or something. The Barnes and Noble NOOK which runs android does this. The main on board memory is a microsd card that you can actually pull if you rip your nook apart, but it wont accept other microsd's even if they were cloned from the original card.

julienrl said:
The cards themselves might not be that special other than having a correct SN range or something. The Barnes and Noble NOOK which runs android does this. The main on board memory is a microsd card that you can actually pull if you rip your nook apart, but it wont accept other microsd's even if they were cloned from the original card.
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Click to collapse
Interesting. Thanks. I guess the difference here is that WP7 is made by a bunch of different people so it would be harder to code in this sort of restriction.

Just saw this in an article about the Samsung Focus...
It's also the only Windows Phone that can expand with memory cards, according to an AT&T spokesman.
All the new Windows Phone 7's work similarly, as they're all based on Qualcomm's 1-GHz QSD8250 chipset with very similar hardware stats, including HSDPA 7.2, Wi-Fi, and a 5-megapixel camera. The Focus has 8GB of memory built in, but an AT&T spokesman at the launch said a MicroSD card up to 32GB could be added, provided you factory reset the phone when you do. If that's true, the Focus can expand up to 40GB.
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http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2370586,00.asp

Pocketnow is concurring that WP7 supports upgrading the card.
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/windows-phone-7-does-support-removable-storage-proof

I have a request.
ANYONE who is lucky enogh to get their hands on a WP7 device. If possible, check if there is a memory card uner the battery.
I do not understand what the **** MS is doing. Currently there's only one phone on the market with more than 8GB storage, and this will be rare, hard to get because I don't think I'm the only one that want one.

Sir. Haxalot said:
I have a request.
ANYONE who is lucky enogh to get their hands on a WP7 device. If possible, check if there is a memory card uner the battery.
I do not understand what the **** MS is doing. Currently there's only one phone on the market with more than 8GB storage, and this will be rare, hard to get because I don't think I'm the only one that want one.
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Click to collapse
Blame it on the hardware vendor. MS state that the min is 8GB, so they all quickly built phones with 8GB naturally. There's no stopping them from building a 16 or 32GB. They should have figured out we'd spend a few more dollars to get those extra storage

Wandy_1974 said:
Blame it on the hardware vendor. MS state that the min is 8GB, so they all quickly built phones with 8GB naturally. There's no stopping them from building a 16 or 32GB. They should have figured out we'd spend a few more dollars to get those extra storage
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This is true, I am in love with what Microsoft have made, but they have been let down badly by the hardware manufacturers. I really hope there is options for more storage ie like the iphone when they go on sale and the 8gb models where just used for showing of the handsets. One bit of hope for this is that the storage capacity is not shown on the wp7 websites handset specs. I would kill for a 16/32gb mozart or omnia 7.

lumpaywk said:
This is true, I am in love with what Microsoft have made, but they have been let down badly by the hardware manufacturers. I really hope there is options for more storage ie like the iphone when they go on sale and the 8gb models where just used for showing of the handsets. One bit of hope for this is that the storage capacity is not shown on the wp7 websites handset specs. I would kill for a 16/32gb mozart or omnia 7.
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I want 16GB min but hoping to have the option for 32GB +. Hope they wake up soon as I love the look of winm7.
But without better storage, I will not be upgrading anytime soon.

Wandy_1974 said:
Blame it on the hardware vendor. MS state that the min is 8GB, so they all quickly built phones with 8GB naturally.
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Click to collapse
Well, since this isn't surprising anyone then I think MS could have expected it. And I will still blame them because they didn't make 16GB the minimum.

lumpaywk said:
This is true, I am in love with what Microsoft have made, but they have been let down badly by the hardware manufacturers. I really hope there is options for more storage ie like the iphone when they go on sale and the 8gb models where just used for showing of the handsets. One bit of hope for this is that the storage capacity is not shown on the wp7 websites handset specs. I would kill for a 16/32gb mozart or omnia 7.
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Click to collapse
the SAMSUNG FOCUS is currently the only phone that will allow for upgrading the storage you can simply insert your 32 gb sd card before youfirst start you phone on 40gb it is... or insert it at a later time and hard reset and you are good to go...

i would thus jump on the focus but alas i live in england and so we get the rubbish. It seems they are holding all the good handsets for the USA (by good i mean with more than 8gb storage). This is a real kick in the balls as i was hoping i wouldn't need to replace my stolen zune hd as i was going to get a wp7 but it would seem this will actually still have to be the case.
Saying this i did have a little hope with "the device can be picked up in 8GB and 16GB capacities." from http://www.mobiletor.com/2010/10/12/samsung-makes-a-mark-with-new-omnia-7-smartphone/ though tbh i once again don't think this will be the case in the uk.

16GB as a minimum sounds a little high. I am not sure who is really to blame for this storage fiasco, but how can they expect the multimedia users to work with only 8GB storage? And when I say they I mean phone makers and MS.
But an intriguing question would be why does one handset allow the removable storage to be upgraded and not the others?

So my question is about the type/class SD card that we can use to upgrade the Focus. I can only find an SDXC USH-I 64GB card for over $300. If the phone is using some kind of Raid 0 storage implementation, does it require a memory card that costs almost 50% more than the phone will cost?
What kind of SD card will the Focus require?

lavike said:
So my question is about the type/class SD card that we can use to upgrade the Focus. I can only find an SDXC USH-I 64GB card for over $300. If the phone is using some kind of Raid 0 storage implementation, does it require a memory card that costs almost 50% more than the phone will cost?
What kind of SD card will the Focus require?
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microsoft did say something about "high speed" cards but did not give what they were.. however the focus will only support up to 32gb not sure why..

Sir. Haxalot said:
I have a request.
ANYONE who is lucky enogh to get their hands on a WP7 device. If possible, check if there is a memory card uner the battery.
I do not understand what the **** MS is doing. Currently there's only one phone on the market with more than 8GB storage, and this will be rare, hard to get because I don't think I'm the only one that want one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are multiple phones with more than 8GB of storage on the market
Several Nokia N series have 32GB of storage N97 and N900 for example and both have the ability to add up to 32GB more

No SD card access, No Swype?? Steve Balmer is sceretly working for Apple!

I mean c'mon!! some of the most elementary things that made WM great, Balmer is ripping out of our arms!
I'm starting to feel like if I'm going to get an HD7, I may as well just go get the iphone...& I HATE the iphone!

Are you an idiot? There is removable storage. Why do you need to access the SD?
As for Swype... the integrated keyboard in WP7 is brilliant, there's no need for it. We're not using Android here.

owenw said:
Are you an idiot? There is removable storage. Why do you need to access the SD?
As for Swype... the integrated keyboard in WP7 is brilliant, there's no need for it. We're not using Android here.
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Actually, you must be the idiot! If you remove/change the SD card, you void the warrantee!
As for Swype, it was included on the HD2 & if I like that is my business! If it was available on 6.5 it should be easy enough to include on WP7. Why should I have to completely change the way I have been used to typing for almost a year?
Do your research before you throw the "idiot" term around, you end up looking like a bigger one than you accused me of being!

MadLinx said:
Actually, you must be the idiot! If you remove/change the SD card, you void the warrantee!
As for Swype, it was included on the HD2 & if I like that is my business! If it was available on 6.5 it should be easy enough to include on WP7. Why should I have to completely change the way I have been used to typing for almost a year?
Do your research before you throw the "idiot" term around, you end up looking like a bigger one than you accused me of being!
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Wrong again champ. You can remove the update the SD on Samsung devices. The warranty you are talking about is with the HD7, because you need to remove screws to get access to the SD Card. So why don't you do some researching?

walshieau said:
Wrong again champ. You can remove the update the SD on Samsung devices. The warranty you are talking about is with the HD7, because you need to remove screws to get access to the SD Card. So why don't you do some researching?
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I have Champ! thats why I was able to put you in your place about your statement!

MadLinx said:
I have Champ! thats why I was able to put you in your place about your statement!
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Click to collapse
You obviously can't read then
They were never my statements
I was simply backing up the person who replied to you
As you are incorrect about the warranty. The USER REPLACEABLE SD Slots DON'T VOID the warranty. The HTC ones do.

MadLinx said:
I have Champ! thats why I was able to put you in your place about your statement!
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Furthermore, since MS wants to be Neo-Nazi like Apple now (you know the 3 buttons that made it "impossible" for the HD2 to use the WP7 OS) what MS should have done is make the ability to switch out SD cards a mandatory requirement as their precious 3 Buttons.
you still wanna tell me how much of a genius everybody @ MS is now??

walshieau said:
You obviously can't read then
They were never my statements
I was simply backing up the person who replied to you
As you are incorrect about the warranty. The USER REPLACEABLE SD Slots DON'T VOID the warranty. The HTC ones do.
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Click to collapse
I probably read much better than you!
1. when I hit "quote" yours was the profile that came up.
2. that's fine if that's your opinion.
3. I am correct about the warrantee...on the HD7 which is my only WP7 device of interest. Again, it's MS's fault for not making the SD option mandatory.

owenw said:
Are you an idiot? There is removable storage. Why do you need to access the SD?
As for Swype... the integrated keyboard in WP7 is brilliant, there's no need for it. We're not using Android here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you better read this one:
Windows Phone 7 - The filesystem and how it is presented to the user
before call someone an idiot

Just left wondering if this couldnt be addressed in one of the 1,000,000,000 threads covering precisely the same topic?
As for swype, AFAIK it was never available on the HD2 that my carrier sold me... if it wasnt for a .CAB file of questionable legality, i would never have been able to try it. Or is this the problem? Locking the OS down removes all the "free" software we used to run?

mshagg said:
Just left wondering if this couldnt be addressed in one of the 1,000,000,000 threads covering precisely the same topic?
As for swype, AFAIK it was never available on the HD2 that my carrier sold me... if it wasnt for a .CAB file of questionable legality, i would never have been able to try it. Or is this the problem? Locking the OS down removes all the "free" software we used to run?
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Click to collapse
It WAS included on the OS my carrier sold me. As for being addressed on previous threads, I'm all for condensing. However, when I did a search my findings were lacking in this specific subject.
Perhaps there may be a better indexing system that can be developed to avoid these problems moving forward.

MrKaon said:
you better read this one:
Windows Phone 7 - The filesystem and how it is presented to the user
before call someone an idiot
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My response of idiot was in as a result of being accused of being one myself for making points that have been valid & accurate. In reading the post which you pointed me to from March of this year. Reading internal & SD memory as one isn't the problem here. Neither is having to hard reset in order to reconfigure with the new SD card. That post further supports my point about MS really missing the proverbial boat here.
Case in point, removing the HD7's SD card is possible but not without voiding the warrantee. This is not by MS mandate, but if MS is going to be so controlling of other aspects of WP7 why not make sure we the users can upgrade SD card size as WE feel necessary.
My HD2 came with a 16gb SD card, knowing that this would not be enough for ME I upgraded to a 32gb one. I currently have about 22gb of info on my card. If you don't, or don't understand why I have that much data that's fine it's not relevant.
My point simply is this, we all know that these devices are no longer phones...they are mini computers that have a phone in them. That being the case, it should be mandated by MS that we have the option to upgrade our memory on ALL devices not just some!

MadLinx said:
Case in point, removing the HD7's SD card is possible but not without voiding the warrantee.
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Not true:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=807900&page=13

According to what I've read and understand, replacing the card will wipe the system, like a hard reset, because the card is being used as internal memory. They say you can upgrade the card, but you have to start all over again...erasing all accumulated data and info on the device.
What I find ironic is, Balmer has stated the reason for this type of system is because MicroSD tech is very low quality, buggy and problematic. He says the quality and reliability consistency from one card to another varies. And yet MS adopts MicroSD tech for its internal storage on WP7 devices. [scratches head and rolls eyes]

Well Microsoft could of included internal NAND in it's hardware specs but that would of increased the costs of devices and price point is a huge milestone when you're competing against the iPhone.
The most sensible way of keeping costs down while still allowing manufacturers to offer a variety of storage configurations was to use microSDHC.
The point about quality and reliability is a valid one, read Bunnie's blog post if you havn't yet. The way to control this is to not provide the user the ability to access that storage, it is preinstalled in the device.
Some people like Samsung have still chosen to give the user that choice and I think more will over time.
It really isn't that strange.

Oh my god, this is way too funny! Both of you seem pretty ill informed, the WP7 keyboard is perfect but a lot of people still want to use swype. Anyways all I can say is that only the Samsung devices have SD card support and even then it is god awful. You have to format the device to expand the memory? Lol. Anyway, the OS has 10x more freedom than iOS, mainly because it has more access to the hardware. The OS has a lot of downsides and I think its biggest is the lack of developer support, however that should change very soon. Oh, by the way, I hammered this all down on the WP7 keyboard.

JEEtoP said:
Well Microsoft could of included internal NAND in it's hardware specs but that would of increased the costs of devices and price point is a huge milestone when you're competing against the iPhone.
The most sensible way of keeping costs down while still allowing manufacturers to offer a variety of storage configurations was to use microSDHC.
The point about quality and reliability is a valid one, read Bunnie's blog post if you havn't yet. The way to control this is to not provide the user the ability to access that storage, it is preinstalled in the device.
Some people like Samsung have still chosen to give the user that choice and I think more will over time.
It really isn't that strange.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I could have lived with this if HTC used a 32gb card instead of a 16gb, or at least given us a choice between the two...bad decision making. So much for "HTC Quietly Brilliant" SMH

Smokexz said:
Oh my god, this is way too funny! Both of you seem pretty ill informed, the WP7 keyboard is perfect but a lot of people still want to use swype. Anyways all I can say is that only the Samsung devices have SD card support and even then it is god awful. You have to format the device to expand the memory? Lol. Anyway, the OS has 10x more freedom than iOS, mainly because it has more access to the hardware. The OS has a lot of downsides and I think its biggest is the lack of developer support, however that should change very soon. Oh, by the way, I hammered this all down on the WP7 keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In regard to the keyboard, It's all about choice. While the WP7 keyboard is perfect to you, Swype is perfect for me. We should have both.
That's what made 6.5 so great. It's a shame that we probably won't see much more support or development for it.

MartyLK said:
According to what I've read and understand, replacing the card will wipe the system, like a hard reset, because the card is being used as internal memory. They say you can upgrade the card, but you have to start all over again...erasing all accumulated data and info on the device.
What I find ironic is, Balmer has stated the reason for this type of system is because MicroSD tech is very low quality, buggy and problematic. He says the quality and reliability consistency from one card to another varies. And yet MS adopts MicroSD tech for its internal storage on WP7 devices. [scratches head and rolls eyes]
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Click to collapse
Exactly! I said it jokingly, but sometimes it does seem like an Apple double agent.

MadLinx said:
And I could have lived with this if HTC used a 32gb card instead of a 16gb, or at least given us a choice between the two...bad decision making. So much for "HTC Quietly Brilliant" SMH
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Click to collapse
Yeah I agree, not just HTC but across the board there was a surprising lack of storage space with the launch handsets.
I'd guess it had something to do with cost-cutting as well as availability of Class 4 32GB cards. The only vendor manufacturing them as far as I can remember is Kingston and they don't seem to be that well stocked.
Oh well, by tomorrow morning my HD7 will be packin' 32GB and my smartphone will be set for the next 18 months

The "so-called" Microsoft microsd debacle

Being a new Samsung Focus owner, I'm as stupified as everyone else about the microsd problems. This is a major upgrade option that should have been ready to go at WP7 launch. You would think Samsung and AT&T would have a vested interest in getting this right. Shame on them. But as I'm searching the Interent trying to find information on the correct cards, all I see is a flood of "so-called" experts bashing Microsoft and trying to make this into a big scandal. The truth is, Microsoft put this information out 8 months ago...
Windows Phone 7s won't support user-replaceable memory cards, Kindel said. Microsoft will work with OEMs to make sure that phones have enough storage for media and 3D games, but there will be no MicroSD cards for your music. Some phones could have a MicroSD locked under the battery, but it won't be user-replaceable.
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http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2361377,00.asp
But all of a sudden, the Internet is flooded with articles about how Microsoft screwed up...
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1897918/windows-phone-hotel-california-microsd-cards
http://www.infoworld.com/t/smartphones/windows-phone-7-eats-micro-sd-cards-381
http://blog.laptopmag.com/windows-phone-7-traps-your-microsd-card-forever
http://hothardware.com/News/Windows-Phone-7-Allegedly-Breaks-MicroSD-Cards/
The list goes on and on. Granted, the credibility of these blogs and websites are pretty much nonexistent. I'm sure none of these people who wrote these even bothered to actually pick up a WP7 phone. The real story hear is how eager people are for sensationalism, for whatever bias they have. I guess since I'm talking about this issue, they did their job.
Anyway, thanks to xda-devs, I can sort through all this garbage.
I luv you xda-devs!

Infoworld is actually pretty respected. Im surprised they ran that story.

Sounds like PCWorld's diatribe. They are putting out false statements about WP7. Makes me wonder if certain competitors aren't paying for this misinformation.
PCWorld nonsense

That's what happens when the manufacturers are stupid and the users are gullible.
Everyone knew MONTHS upon MONTHS ahead of time not to expect to replace the SD Card, and Manufacturers are putting all sorts of things in place to disuade people from doing it.
But people are still trying to do it, anyways. Some going as far as basically disassembling their phones to get at the card slot (the same slot that probably exists in dozens of other phone types).
That's pretty annoying, but the most annoying thing is the number of threads that popped up after the Windows Phone 7 launch full of people complaining about the phones not working after the SD was replaced (probably with the cheapest, lowest quality SD card they could find), having warranty stickers over the SD slot, or (in the case of the Dell Venure Pro) not even having an Eject Mechanism in the SD Card Slot (to prevent people from removing it - or at least give thems something to think about when they try...).
I think Microsoft had recommended the Manufacturers actually gluing the SD cards in the phones, because they knew what would happen.

MartyLK said:
Sounds like PCWorld's diatribe. They are putting out false statements about WP7. Makes me wonder if certain competitors aren't paying for this misinformation.
PCWorld nonsense
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Wow... seems like PocketNow and PCWorld don't like each other. Maybe they should take things outside?

@N8ter... good points.

albinojoe said:
Infoworld is actually pretty respected. Im surprised they ran that story.
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Click to collapse
Looks like they ran another story as well that indirectly contradicts the other one...
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7s-sd-card-problem-not-microsofts-fault-385
You can argue whether Windows Phone 7 devices (or iPhones, for that matter) should support standard removable-media formats. But that isn't the point. In this case, Windows Phone 7 is doing exactly what it was designed to do, and what Microsoft said it would do all along.
If Microsoft deserves any blame, it's for relaxing its original "no external storage" rule and letting its hardware partners confuse customers by using a nonproprietary physical standard for a proprietary purpose. I can see why customers are confiused and angry. But blame HTC, LG, and Samsung for this mess. It's their fault.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That pretty much sums it up in my opinion.

N8ter said:
That's what happens when the manufacturers are stupid and the users are gullible.
Everyone knew MONTHS upon MONTHS ahead of time not to expect to replace the SD Card, and Manufacturers are putting all sorts of things in place to disuade people from doing it.
But people are still trying to do it, anyways. Some going as far as basically disassembling their phones to get at the card slot (the same slot that probably exists in dozens of other phone types).
That's pretty annoying, but the most annoying thing is the number of threads that popped up after the Windows Phone 7 launch full of people complaining about the phones not working after the SD was replaced (probably with the cheapest, lowest quality SD card they could find), having warranty stickers over the SD slot, or (in the case of the Dell Venure Pro) not even having an Eject Mechanism in the SD Card Slot (to prevent people from removing it - or at least give thems something to think about when they try...).
I think Microsoft had recommended the Manufacturers actually gluing the SD cards in the phones, because they knew what would happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow! Imagine all the warranty requests or returns that would result from morons that pried on the card to remove it only to break it and then cuss out the manufacturer for putting it in too tight.

Microsoft are to blame for setting the minimum requirement too low and allowing SD cards at all. They and everybody knew that OEMs would make phones with small cards users would want to upgrade.

vangrieg said:
Microsoft are to blame for setting the minimum requirement too low and allowing SD cards at all. They and everybody knew that OEMs would make phones with small cards users would want to upgrade.
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Click to collapse
I actually know guys that would argue with anyone who told them the card wasn't replaceable (as in expandable storage). Their rationality would be that it's a MicroSD card, it has to be replaceable. And they are ones whom you would not convince otherwise.

vangrieg said:
Microsoft are to blame for setting the minimum requirement too low and allowing SD cards at all. They and everybody knew that OEMs would make phones with small cards users would want to upgrade.
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Click to collapse
Users knew the phones wouldn't be upgradeable.
They should have just not brought a phone with a small storage capacity.
The only way to run out of space on a 8GB storage capacity WP7 device is to download every song you listen to on Zune Pass (but you can set Zune to not use all you storage... trivially) and load it up with Games (and at 250MB a game even that is a bit much... how many games do you play really?).
That being said. I do think 8GB capacity should be reserved for low-mid end smartphones with low-mid end pricing.
I personally wouldn't pay that much for an 8GB device. That's why I brought a Vibrant even though I was carrier shopping at the time and there were 8GB Droid X's, Evos, Droid Incredibles, etc. available. For some people: No, they don't need all that space, but knowing it's available gives them an extreme level of comfort. I'm one of those people.
But I won't go buy an 8GB device and then complain that it doesn't have enough storage - especially when I knew what the specs were, and that the cards wouldn't be user replaceable, weeks to months ahead of their release.

MartyLK said:
I actually know guys that would argue with anyone who told them the card wasn't replaceable (as in expandable storage). Their rationality would be that it's a MicroSD card, it has to be replaceable. And they are ones whom you would not convince otherwise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those are the same people who were ignorantly ripping out PCMCIA Cards and unplugging USB Mass Storage devices back when they they weren't so "hot pluggable" and the icon in the system tray popped up a tip obviously telling them to click there and select "Remove Device" before they actually removed it.
Nothing can help these people.

smuook said:
Being a new Samsung Focus owner, I'm as stupified as everyone else about the microsd problems. This is a major upgrade option that should have been ready to go at WP7 launch. You would think Samsung and AT&T would have a vested interest in getting this right. Shame on them. But as I'm searching the Interent trying to find information on the correct cards, all I see is a flood of "so-called" experts bashing Microsoft and trying to make this into a big scandal. The truth is, Microsoft put this information out 8 months ago...
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2361377,00.asp
But all of a sudden, the Internet is flooded with articles about how Microsoft screwed up...
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1897918/windows-phone-hotel-california-microsd-cards
http://www.infoworld.com/t/smartphones/windows-phone-7-eats-micro-sd-cards-381
http://blog.laptopmag.com/windows-phone-7-traps-your-microsd-card-forever
http://hothardware.com/News/Windows-Phone-7-Allegedly-Breaks-MicroSD-Cards/
The list goes on and on. Granted, the credibility of these blogs and websites are pretty much nonexistent. I'm sure none of these people who wrote these even bothered to actually pick up a WP7 phone. The real story hear is how eager people are for sensationalism, for whatever bias they have. I guess since I'm talking about this issue, they did their job.
Anyway, thanks to xda-devs, I can sort through all this garbage.
I luv you xda-devs!
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Click to collapse
wow, what misinformation. Funny how this new formatting technology has been around for a long time.
smuook said:
Looks like they ran another story as well that indirectly contradicts the other one...
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7s-sd-card-problem-not-microsofts-fault-385
That pretty much sums it up in my opinion.
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Click to collapse
As long as you use a class2 sandisk, it seems ok.
MartyLK said:
Wow! Imagine all the warranty requests or returns that would result from morons that pried on the card to remove it only to break it and then cuss out the manufacturer for putting it in too tight.
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Click to collapse
why would that be a warranty claim? Taking apart your phone voids the warranty.

MartyLK said:
I actually know guys that would argue with anyone who told them the card wasn't replaceable (as in expandable storage). Their rationality would be that it's a MicroSD card, it has to be replaceable. And they are ones whom you would not convince otherwise.
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Click to collapse
the rational of "microsd is replaceable" is correct. any microsd laying on a table is considered a user-replaceable piece of hardware. any, and all microsd inside a phone, camera, laptop, etc is considered a user replaceable piece of hardware. it's a very simple piece of user replaceable hardware, and that's why it's given in the microsd format (size, shape, storage type).
placing a warrantee sticker over a portion of the phone/device is ASKING for people to pry it away and see what is underneath. warrantee be damned, if the hardware is purchased by a user, it now belongs to said user, reguardless of what a UELA says.
the right way to spec a cheaper board (beit OEM or M$) and then plop on a microsd for storage would have been to put it in a place the user couldn't access. complete disassembly of the phone would have made more sense. glueing it in without sandwiching it between layers of phone would have been a bad idea also. users would damage the phone trying to remove, as stated already.
the decision to use a striped microsd card in a user accessible location was just a poor choice. soldering a 8,16, or 32Gb chip on would have been much better. call it iphone-esque, but it wouldn't have been in discussion or confusion -now-.
also
what happened to the "proprietary sdcard" statement i've seen in the past ? has it been debunked, or is it still current ?
sidenote: i'm all for cheap, huge buckets of microsd storage myself.

A chip would be better but more expensive. OEMs just opted for a cheaper option, as usual.

nrfitchett4 said:
wow, what misinformation. Funny how this new formatting technology has been around for a long time.
As long as you use a class2 sandisk, it seems ok.
why would that be a warranty claim? Taking apart your phone voids the warranty.
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Click to collapse
I didn't say it was rational or logical. "Moron" is all I needed to say. You know...the type that shoots themselves in the face while looking down the barrel of a gun to see if there's a bullet inside. They then make claims against the gun maker saying it was unsafe. The gun should not fire when pointed at your face.

ohgood said:
the rational of "microsd is replaceable" is correct. any microsd laying on a table is considered a user-replaceable piece of hardware. any, and all microsd inside a phone, camera, laptop, etc is considered a user replaceable piece of hardware. it's a very simple piece of user replaceable hardware, and that's why it's given in the microsd format (size, shape, storage type).
placing a warrantee sticker over a portion of the phone/device is ASKING for people to pry it away and see what is underneath. warrantee be damned, if the hardware is purchased by a user, it now belongs to said user, reguardless of what a UELA says.
the right way to spec a cheaper board (beit OEM or M$) and then plop on a microsd for storage would have been to put it in a place the user couldn't access. complete disassembly of the phone would have made more sense. glueing it in without sandwiching it between layers of phone would have been a bad idea also. users would damage the phone trying to remove, as stated already.
the decision to use a striped microsd card in a user accessible location was just a poor choice. soldering a 8,16, or 32Gb chip on would have been much better. call it iphone-esque, but it wouldn't have been in discussion or confusion -now-.
also
what happened to the "proprietary sdcard" statement i've seen in the past ? has it been debunked, or is it still current ?
sidenote: i'm all for cheap, huge buckets of microsd storage myself.
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Click to collapse
So it is acceptable to require a company to foot the bill for stupidity? If the owner removes the warranty sticker knowing it voids the warranty, do they have the right to seek warranty repairs when they F it up?

There's only one device with a card that's easily installed, the Focus. The rest make it hard to get to. AT&T and Samsung were advertising this feature, basically against Microsoft's wishes. Now they're all having to backpedal.
I believe there's a software issue here that is exacerbating these problems. The OS is just not resilient enough. I hope Microsoft resolves the software issues and allows more OEMs to ship devices like the Focus which gives the user the choice in how much storage someone needs. 8gb (the WP7 minimum) is PLENTY of storage for a vast number of people. But many of us want more. I'm OK (but not overly joyed) with the cards not being able to be reformatted. Just have to pretend that the storage is embedded.

Regardless of what Microsoft has posted in the past, they had to know about the Focus having the slot long before it was released. So, they obviously planned to allow it at some level. Now, they have only focused on saying that it is not swappable without a hard reset.
Personally, I am glad the slot is there on the Focus. I wouldn't have bought the Focus otherwise. I don't like the Surround or the LG WP7 devices, and I need atleast 16GB of storage. I now have 24GB and I have not had a single problem. I initially had an 8GB Centon Class 6 and replaced that with a 16GB PNY Class 2. I was able to reformat the Centon, using a Nokia Symbian phone, and gave it to a friend to use in his Focus.
I am not sure how or why Samsung was able to offer the accessible SD slot, but I am glad they did.
As far as the media is concerned, the quality of journalism with the online blogs (and even PC-World and other "respected" publications) has been in a decline for the last few years. Ever since blogging started becoming so mainstream, the publications have turned into an assimily of the type FOX, NBC, CNN, etc. fight for ratings or viewers. It is very disappointing.

Apple's "debacle" with the iPhone 4 antenna wasn't anything close to what some made it out to be but Apple still paid a pretty steep price for it. What comes around goes around. If people weren't so gullible or taken to this endless "Us vs Them" mentality, none of this would be an issue.
Personally, I stuck a Sandisk 8GB class 2 card in my Focus and with like 2GB or available storage free it still works as perfectly as it did the day I bought the phone. Something else, too...I didn't waste my time with SD cards in WinMo phones because they were even slower than the rest of the phone. Whatever Microsoft did has improved I/O speed by a magnitude and I welcome it.

So....

Ok here goes..
I've been using HTC devices since the days of the SPV E100.
Every phone I've had has been Windows mobile based.
Now I am thinking about getting WM7 phone but the hardware is just not quite right.
I managed to get a hold and play with a demo Mozart.
At the moment The mozart is fave because it fits snug in my palm and the camera is 8MP. But that is all. There are some bits I want before jumping in.
Processor ...Check
8 mp Camera ... check
Wifi N.. Check
Micro sd.....Errr if you feel like voiding your warranty
Hdmi out... Nope
FM in/out... Nope
OK now for question time.
Has anyone got a conversion chart to show how much space 1 min/ 5 min /10 mins of 720 video takes up on a Mozart?
Does WM7 switch to a removable storage mode like the old windows?

djfuego said:
Ok here goes..
I've been using HTC devices since the days of the SPV E100.
Every phone I've had has been Windows mobile based.
Now I am thinking about getting WM7 phone but the hardware is just not quite right.
I managed to get a hold and play with a demo Mozart.
At the moment The mozart is fave because it fits snug in my palm and the camera is 8MP. But that is all. There are some bits I want before jumping in.
Processor ...Check
8 mp Camera ... check
Wifi N.. Check
Micro sd.....Errr if you feel like voiding your warranty
Hdmi out... Nope
FM in/out... Nope
OK now for question time.
Has anyone got a conversion chart to show how much space 1 min/ 5 min /10 mins of 720 video takes up on a Mozart?
Does WM7 switch to a removable storage mode like the old windows?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can only answer the last question .
wp7 sees all the storage as one big drive (rom+sd) so lets say "512 MB rom + 16GB sd = 16.5GB of storage (we don't know where it is stored )
and remember ! , you can not swap the sd card and use the DATA on it after swapping.

fm in/out? do you mean an fm receiver? if so, it has one. but no, it cannot act as an fm transmitter.

Cheers
The Gate Keeper said:
fm in/out? do you mean an fm receiver? if so, it has one. but no, it cannot act as an fm transmitter.
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Click to collapse
So it does have an FM radio receiver that works on the phone?
I'm looking for wm7 phone with similar features as My old Touch Diamond.

djfuego said:
So it does have an FM radio receiver that works on the phone?
I'm looking for wm7 phone with similar features as My old Touch Diamond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it has fm radio

djfuego said:
So it does have an FM radio receiver that works on the phone?
I'm looking for wm7 phone with similar features as My old Touch Diamond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does but for some reason it only works with uneven frequencies. 105,1 105,3 105,5 etc. Unless I'm missing something obvious.

i got it working for frequency 103.2, so i don't think there is an issue with it.

The Gate Keeper said:
i got it working for frequency 103.2, so i don't think there is an issue with it.
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Click to collapse
Yeah it was something obvious. I noticed that there was an option to change from North America to World in settings and now I can access a lot more radio channels.

ceesheim said:
I can only answer the last question .
wp7 sees all the storage as one big drive (rom+sd) so lets say "512 MB rom + 16GB sd = 16.5GB of storage (we don't know where it is stored )
and remember ! , you can not swap the sd card and use the DATA on it after swapping.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems counter intuitive. Is there any legitimate reason for this?

ms simply does not allow swapping memory cards for "security reasons" and would like you to use their cloud. which provides you with 25GB(?) of additional storage. for that matter there is simply no need for more storage unless you want to beat the upcoming iPhone 5 with 64GB build in. who needs that?
the internal storag card is somehow "glued" to the device. so even if you find it its just not worth the hassle. for a big upgrade it might be worth to void the warranty, but not for a daily swapping.

nehvada said:
ms simply does not allow swapping memory cards for "security reasons" and would like you to use their cloud. which provides you with 25GB(?) of additional storage. for that matter there is simply no need for more storage unless you want to beat the upcoming iPhone 5 with 64GB build in. who needs that?
the internal storag card is somehow "glued" to the device. so even if you find it its just not worth the hassle. for a big upgrade it might be worth to void the warranty, but not for a daily swapping.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WEll Im not a fan of the cloud, I prefer direct control over my own data. I feel the cloud is bad for data security and integrity. I do not see how a removable storage device is less secure than some random servers that could be located anywhere. And with my current phone I have the option to use "The Cloud" or my Sd cards or both. Why would anyone think it is beneficial for their options to be reduced? Why should I put my personal data into the hands of a complete stranger?

the argument behind the use of cloud over local storage is similar to the one of android vs windows phone.
basically, the reason they made the microSD cards not "hot swappable" is so that they can encrypt the whole card. this way, noone can just come around and take the card out of the phone and get all of it's contents.
in terms of cloud vs local storage and which is more secure, really, neither can be said to be completely secure if you're on the internet. that includes your phone. if your phone uses data, then it's not secure, that includes bluetooth. pretty much everything is hackable. though that is the worst case scenario. in terms of putting your information in strangers hands, you merely being on the internet is doing that. in the hands of google, microsoft, and any other service that tracks cookies, browser patterns, etc. so really, your information is everywhere.

Security is more than just whether your data is secure from hackers. It also keeps app developers' data safe from you. MS knows that they need good apps to sell the platform, and to get devs to put forth the effort they have to show that the platform won't allow the ease of piracy that Android users have become accustomed to. Yes, it is a tradeoff, and it might not be for you, but I do not see that changing anytime soon, so if you wanna go WP7, that's what you're looking at.
I have to admit that the idea really did not appeal to me in theory when I first heard it. No one likes the idea of giving up a freedom. However, after using my Focus for a while, I have found that, for me at least, it is far outweighed by the positive changes.
That being said, the last thing this forum needs is yet another thread devolving into a nonremovable storage bashing session vs. WP7 fanboy argument, so I'm just gonna suggest that you really honestly try out 7 before nailing it over a point or two. It is a much larger change from 6.5 than can be really explained by a quick bullet point list, and really deserves to be approached with a fresh mindset. If it works out, awesome. If it doesn't, then that's just where you're at.

The Gate Keeper said:
the argument behind the use of cloud over local storage is similar to the one of android vs windows phone.
basically, the reason they made the microSD cards not "hot swappable" is so that they can encrypt the whole card. this way, noone can just come around and take the card out of the phone and get all of it's contents.
in terms of cloud vs local storage and which is more secure, really, neither can be said to be completely secure if you're on the internet. that includes your phone. if your phone uses data, then it's not secure, that includes bluetooth. pretty much everything is hackable. though that is the worst case scenario. in terms of putting your information in strangers hands, you merely being on the internet is doing that. in the hands of google, microsoft, and any other service that tracks cookies, browser patterns, etc. so really, your information is everywhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FL5 said:
Security is more than just whether your data is secure from hackers. It also keeps app developers' data safe from you. MS knows that they need good apps to sell the platform, and to get devs to put forth the effort they have to show that the platform won't allow the ease of piracy that Android users have become accustomed to. Yes, it is a tradeoff, and it might not be for you, but I do not see that changing anytime soon, so if you wanna go WP7, that's what you're looking at.
I have to admit that the idea really did not appeal to me in theory when I first heard it. No one likes the idea of giving up a freedom. However, after using my Focus for a while, I have found that, for me at least, it is far outweighed by the positive changes.
That being said, the last thing this forum needs is yet another thread devolving into a nonremovable storage bashing session vs. WP7 fanboy argument, so I'm just gonna suggest that you really honestly try out 7 before nailing it over a point or two. It is a much larger change from 6.5 than can be really explained by a quick bullet point list, and really deserves to be approached with a fresh mindset. If it works out, awesome. If it doesn't, then that's just where you're at.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, if it ever gets ported to HD2 ill try it out , or ill have a look at my friends mozart , but aside from that even tho I still have my concerns I agree this is not the place for argument, and even though I only partly agree with the answers, they did give me somthing to think about and thanks for answering my questions.

MicroSD card support when Windows 7 was being developed

Forgive me if this had been discussed before, but does anyone have any idea why Microsoft would program an OS that supposedly was built from the ground up to NOT support external MicroSD cards? It would seem that in this day and age that it would have been in the top 5 list of "had to be included." Instead they gave the manufacturers their specs for 8GB of internal RAM and that was it. What in the world was Microsoft thinking?
I'm actually happy that Samsung said "screw that" and made a MicroSD slot that was user accessible. That basically forced Microsoft to rethink their strategy, especially after the first patch "fiasco."
Does anyone here have any inside information as to why the MicroSD card wasn't on their list of "must have" for Windows 7? Do you think they were trying to pull an Apple strategy where they can sell an 8GB phone, a 16GB phone, and a 32GB phone to try to make more money?

MicroSD cards ARE supported by WP7, in fact all but a few WP7 devices have them.
What you are looking for is called "removable" & "user-accessible"/"upgradeable" storage.

Scrtcwlvl said:
MicroSD cards ARE supported by WP7, in fact all but a few WP7 devices have them.
What you are looking for is called "removable" & "user-accessible"/"upgradeable" storage.
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well all the HTC ones use microSD, as well as the DELL Venue Pro, where as all LG phones use NAND, and Samsung uses NAND (with the exception of focus offering an external microSD slot).
The main reason why MS didn't want it exposed is because of the way it uses the microSD card. The use of it in an actual secured RAID 0 format means that it makes the card unusable by any other means making the data secure on the chip. And they knew that people would complain so they didn't want the OEMs to offer it as a user accessible slot, but they didn't enforce it. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing though.

The Gate Keeper said:
And they knew that people would complain so they didn't want the OEMs to offer it as a user accessible slot, but they didn't enforce it. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess now that the genie is out of be bottle it appears that Microsoft will now need to address this dilemma. It appears that people are okay with the idea that once the microSD card is used by a WP7 phone that it can't be reused in something else. I know I'm okay with it if the phone is functional with more space to save music, videos, games, etc. I currently have a 8GB card in my phone, but what I really wanted was a 32GB card but after hearing how unstable it was I held back. It was the inability to use the 32GB card that made me ask the original question.

nathantw said:
I guess now that the genie is out of be bottle it appears that Microsoft will now need to address this dilemma. It appears that people are okay with the idea that once the microSD card is used by a WP7 phone that it can't be reused in something else. I know I'm okay with it if the phone is functional with more space to save music, videos, games, etc. I currently have a 8GB card in my phone, but what I really wanted was a 32GB card but after hearing how unstable it was I held back. It was the inability to use the 32GB card that made me ask the original question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung Focus' implementation of SD is flawed either in hardware level or software level or both. There is no problem using any size or type of SD cards in any other WP7 phones not made by Samsung. MicroSD cards have been around for very long time. There is really no reason for a phone, especially one that is designed to take user removeable SD card, to not support all kinds of cards.
Now you have Samsung Focus not only doesn't support majority of SD cards out there but also refuses to accept updates from Micrsoft. It sounds like Samsung has a hatrate against WP7

I think MS saw the problems that Android had with removable storage and decided to require a minimum of 8gb and do away with any sort of removable storage. This makes the OS more stable as a whole.

i think MS did not want ppl to load android on WP7 dvice thats why they did this to the memory card...

They're trying to stop piracy, there's many Android sites out there on the internet that'll give you APKs of premium android apps that have been ripped off people's memory cards and uploaded.
It doesn't help that with Android you have 24 hours to request a refund and therefore can buy, rip from memory card and refund.
It may seem bad to you but from a developer point of view it's awesome. And before anyone goes on about encryption etc, people will find a way to hack through that they always do.

brummiesteven said:
It doesn't help that with Android you have 24 hours to request a refund and therefore can buy, rip from memory card and refund.
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i believe this is now only 15 minutes, which a lot of people think is a bit too short of a time frame as well. this is why the setup MS did was quite smart, offering the capabilities for devs to implement a trial mode within their full app.

^ care to check facts first. 24 hours?
..........edit .... gate keeper beat me to it.
You can also say the same for IOS, and WebOS. Piracy will come, there is no stopping it.

The Gate Keeper said:
i believe this is now only 15 minutes, which a lot of people think is a bit too short of a time frame as well. this is why the setup MS did was quite smart, offering the capabilities for devs to implement a trial mode within their full app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
which is still enough time to rip the apk and still get a refund.
And as I sit here being frustrated that more devs are going to an ad supported model, I think I have found the reason why....

yea it is enough time to perform that. but to a general user 15 minutes isn't enough time to see if the app was worth the purchase.
the market place needs better search capabilities for trial apps, that's all. once they are there, then more people will start using the trial apps and if they deem it worth it they would buy it.