Develop Bugs

WP7 -IS- Backwards compatible (well almost)

Applications that were made for Windows Mobile 6 are compatible with Windows Phone 7 Series. The interface of the new mobile operating system has been changed though, so the user interface for these applications will have to be changed as well.
"So there is no reason why programs written for Windows Mobile 6 cannot run on the new version of the OS", said Maarten Sonneveld of Microsoft Netherlands to Tweakers.net. "The interface is complete different though, so the applications will have to be changed somewhat before being ready for Windows Phone 7 Series".
It is still unclear how developers can port their user interfaces to the new version of Windows Mobile. Microsoft will only disclose how applications can be developed and distributed at their developer event Mix2010.
Microsoft announced it’s new OS on Monday afternoon at the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. The OS is primarily aimed at synchronisation and integration with Microsft-services like Windows Live, Bing, Zune and Xbox Live. Aside from those Windows Phone 7 Series can also synchronise with Google-accounts and facebook.
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Source
So in summary, while none of the current applications will run on it, the underlying non-UI APIs will be compatible. So if understand correctly, porting would just a case of redeveloping the UI then recompiling, rather than starting completely from scratch. This acts to filter out apps with no more developer support, and promote a consistent UI.
Doesn't sound too bad to me.

That might explain why TomTom was seen on that screenshot of WP7 running on the HD2 (although, it could be a fake!). TomTom takes control of the screen, so uses no WM interface elements. So, it might be able to run full-screen apps/games without changes.
But, who knows...

elyl said:
That might explain why TomTom was seen on that screenshot of WP7 running on the HD2 (although, it could be a fake!). TomTom takes control of the screen, so uses no WM interface elements. So, it might be able to run full-screen apps/games without changes.
But, who knows...
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I was just thinking the same except if you use the included .net controls, there's no reason that the OS couldn't just reskin them automatically to be at least somewhat more in line with the WP7 styling.

This would be excellent if it's true - and I can't see why it wouldn't be. The UI may be new but why throw away a perfectly good underlying core.
What would also be ideal is if the "multi-tasking" involved an app being set to pause in the background by default, but with a "keep me running" API call available for apps that needed it. I'm sure most apps hog resourses not because they need to but because the developer hasn't really thought about how the rest of the device performs when his app has been left running.

Makes sense, WindowsCE core is still the same

Zaim2 said:
Applications that were made for Windows Mobile 6 are compatible with Windows Phone 7 Series
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Absolutely wrong statement due to incorrect translation. Original: "De interface van Windows Phone 7 Series is totaal anders, waardoor er in elk geval iets aan de applicaties moet gebeuren voordat ze geschikt zijn voor Windows Phone 7 Series"
Even google translates it correctly:
"The interface of Windows 7 Phone Series is different, which in any case something should happen to the applications before they are suitable for Windows 7 Phone Series".
We have some "ms confidential" documentation dated January 2010 that proves that none of the existing apps would be compatible with WinPhone7. And the only programming suite that is available to "generic" application-writers is Silverlight+XNA. Native apps are prohibited. Only OEMs and MO are allowed to create them (and even they have a set of limitations).
We would not have even source code compatibility - as all our C++ apps have to be converted to .NET.

mamaich said:
We have some "ms confidential" documentation dated January 2010...
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What the heck? And you say that only now? What else is in there? Any word about how background tasks are handled? Please give us some more information, or maybe, can you upload that documentation?

freyberry said:
maybe, can you upload that documentation?
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Obviously I cannot. As it would reveal the person who provided it.
Just to prove that such info really exists - see attached screenshots.
I really hope that the community would force MS to change such a dumb idea to limit independent software vendors to create only managed apps. Prohibiting C++ as a developing language, and "hiding" Windows API from programmer would force lots of developers to abandon this platform. The main reason of success of old WinMobile OSes was the ability to recompile "desktop" apps to WinMobile with just a minor set of changes (ANSI->Unicode + some interface changes).
P.S. I don't read PMs.

Obviously I cannot. As it would reveal the person who provided it.
Just to prove that such info really exists - see attached screenshots.
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Well, there's certainly a way to remove that information. But anyway, what about background tasks? Are third party applications allowed to run in the background?

mamaich said:
Obviously I cannot. As it would reveal the person who provided it.
Just to prove that such info really exists - see attached screenshots.
I really hope that the community would force MS to change such a dumb idea to limit independent software vendors to create only managed apps. Prohibiting C++ as a developing language, and "hiding" Windows API from programmer would force lots of developers to abandon this platform. The main reason of success of old WinMobile OSes was the ability to recompile "desktop" apps to WinMobile with just a minor set of changes (ANSI->Unicode + some interface changes).
P.S. I don't read PMs.
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Wow, I can't believe noone has picked up on this

freyberry said:
Are third party applications allowed to run in the background?
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OS itself supports multitasking, see attach. But "Windows Phone OS 7.0 Application Platform" that we'll be forced to use to create apps may force our application to be paused in background. I never programmed Silverlight and XNA and can't tell how multitatsking is made in them.
WinPhone 7 == Zune Phone. Both are based on CE kernel, and they should have lots of common in implementation of multitasking, clipboard, etc.

OS itself supports multitasking, see attach. But "Windows Phone OS 7.0 Application Platform" that we'll be forced to use to create apps may force our application to be paused in background.
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The question is, can we write applications that are not automatically suspended when sent to the background? What are the policies on this?
It says multiple processes can run at the same time, but it does not say whether they get suspended automatically.
Is there any info on this? Maybe in the "Scheduling" section?

I’m not sure this is a big deal. I can see them saying a lot of native C++ apps may have compatibility issues. I could go either way on it with the limited amount of information I have on this. I’ll have a better opinion at and after MIX
Note that this could be old documentation, and it’s pretty annoying you're leaking confidential documentation. Personally, I hope you get into trouble for breaking your contract - they trust you and you're posting it? Yuck.
To be fair, though, every app we’ve written has been managed, and Microsoft hasn't t said P/Invoking is verboten, so what would be the problem?
There’s probably exceptions for games and the like, and the documents you've scanned even say a waiver is available to use the Native APIs. So I don’t know what you're complaining about…
Microsoft's dev teams have been listening to developers - why not get them to chime in and also give them a chance to hear you. Posting confidential Microsoft documents, assuming those are real, is not the way to get them to listen
Best,
-Auri

freyberry said:
The question is, can we write applications that are not automatically suspended when sent to the background? What are the policies on this?
It says multiple processes can run at the same time, but it does not say whether they get suspended automatically.
Is there any info on this? Maybe in the "Scheduling" section?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I like Android's approach to this, where Services can run in the background, but UI apps are allowed to be "put to sleep" while other apps run. But then again, we may see a lot of that come into play come MIX and "Answer Time"
Best,
-Auri

Well, I am now both excited and nervous -I think I will just cool my jets until MIX10 and just enjoy the eye candy for now. At worst - if the interface is nice, but the core is crap I am sure some of the boys here at xda will make us an inteface port for 6.5.x that acts and looks like the new hotness with the old compatibility. - lets see MIX

AuriRahimzadeh said:
Note that this could be old documentation, and it’s pretty annoying you're leaking confidential documentation.
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Docs are dated 2010.
I'm not leaking the documentation. I'm sharing the information that anyway would be opened in some days, maybe weeks.
And screens are posted here just as a confirmation of my words. You may think that these pics come from my mind and are made with photoshop - it is your opinion.
I really think that WinPhone 7 would be a failure similar to desktop Vista. Of cause some people would like it, but most would stay on WM 6.x and wait for the next version.
Regarding P/Invoke. As far as I've seen, "unsafe" operations are prohibited in XNA and Silverlight. Otherwise we would be able to call coredll funcs and run native apps (and do everything else that is allowed in our chamber).

mamaich said:
Docs are dated 2010.
I'm not leaking the documentation. I'm sharing the information that anyway would be opened in some days, maybe weeks.
And screens are posted here just as a confirmation of my words. You may think that these pics come from my mind and are made with photoshop - it is your opinion.
I really think that WinPhone 7 would be a failure similar to desktop Vista. Of cause some people would like it, but most would stay on WM 6.x and wait for the next version.
Regarding P/Invoke. As far as I've seen, "unsafe" operations are prohibited in XNA and Silverlight. Otherwise we would be able to call coredll funcs and run native apps (and do everything else that is allowed in our chamber).
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Mamaich any though of a WP7 ce6.0 bsp for all the current cortex A8 devices running on a ce5.2 bsp, will the new kernel support them natively or will extensive bsp/bootloader hacking be required?

P/invoke surely is a limitation of .NET CF, rather than Silverlight/XNA libraries?
I think it would be a bit stupid to remove P/Invoking, because it's just not realistic to rely on .NETCF alone which has soooo much stuff stripped out to minimize size.
Will we be seeing a whole new .NETCF so soon after 3.5? I highly doubt it...Unless MS have been working overtime the past year

Shame, time to stop mobile development altogether if this is true. When we developers are considered as dumb earning pipes for companies who in their arrogant big ways think they have all the wisdom, and app developers only make annoying software that makes their precious leaky OS'es crash, it's time to move on. i would have been talking about IPhone, Android etc, but sadly we must add Microsoft to the list also.
Then there's the $1195,- and airplane tickets we have to pay to get to the Mix2010 in oder to maybe maybe get to be a "partner" with access to limited native API's (probably only reserved for the big companies) and don't even bother talking about giving away 30% of our earnings to a company that last year made how many billions of profits was it ?
Time to start an XDA OS based on REAL Linux maybe ? NVidia have a nice dev-board available for $400,- with Tegra on it. That's what I call developer friendly.
Cheers !

Regardless of how this will play out, I'm pretty sure of two things:
1. Closing down the OS may be beneficial for the majority of users by bringing stability, ease of use, UI consistency, etc. Even though I don't like it.
2. Because the OS itself is multitasking, any and all restrictions may be hacked around, and a "jailbreak" will be possible.
Depending on how this whole thing will be implemented, jailbreaking and using "illegal" apps may be a major PITA (think iPhone 3GS/tethered jailbreak) or as easy as a few registry tweaks/installing additional certs/whatever. If Apple didn't chase JB with every update it would be a rather good platform for both mainstream "ordinary" users and those who want rather unusual things from their phones.
We'll have to wait and see how it evolves really to make a final judgment.

Windows Phone 7 - The "Genuine Windows Phone" certificate

This is a new feature for WP7. An API will be provided for external services to validate that a call is coming from a Genuine Windows Phone. This will be accomplished by a requirement that every phone have a unique certificate applied during manufacturing process (similar to an IMEI, but more than a simple number, an actual .cer)
The certificate is to be stored in the "Device Provisioning Partition" during the manufacturing process and is to be destroyed upon completion of manufacturing. Any time a reflash occurs, a new certificate is to be issued.
This represents a significant change from the existing paradigm as your phone will be instantly uniquely identifiable through this method.

Bump for visibility

Is that going to make flashing custom ROMs an issue?

i think it gonna make flashing difficult..
if you flashed with custom, your WP7 would not be taken as genuine hehehe like Windows 7 lol

maharz said:
i think it gonna make flashing difficult..
if you flashed with custom, your WP7 would not be taken as genuine hehehe like Windows 7 lol
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lol then you have to mod your bios.

On the bright side, we may have fewer reasons to flash custom ROMs on WP7. What are our current reasons for flashing?
1. We need new OS versions on our devices when OEMs don't provide that. Well, this is supposed to be taken care of by centralized update mechanisms for all devices. WP7 will also support partial updates where you don't have to change everything but rather update certain components. Also, firmware files should be replaceable - otherwise OS updates wouldn't work. We'll be less dependant on HTC or whomever.
2. We need components from other devices (newer versions of Manila etc.). Well, these won't exist anymore.
3. We want light ROMs. WP7 will need things added, not removed, for the most part, and crapware will be very limited.

vangrieg said:
On the bright side, we may have fewer reasons to flash custom ROMs on WP7. What are our current reasons for flashing?
1. We need new OS versions on our devices when OEMs don't provide that. Well, this is supposed to be taken care of by centralized update mechanisms for all devices. WP7 will also support partial updates where you don't have to change everything but rather update certain components. Also, firmware files should be replaceable - otherwise OS updates wouldn't work. We'll be less dependant on HTC or whomever.
2. We need components from other devices (newer versions of Manila etc.). Well, these won't exist anymore.
3. We want light ROMs. WP7 will need things added, not removed, for the most part, and crapware will be very limited.
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Click to collapse
Very true. With the OTA MS updates and such it will make life easier for updating the OS.

That could also bring a pitfall - hacking attempts that once worked get blocked.

Da_G said:
This is a new feature for WP7. An API will be provided for external services to validate that a call is coming from a Genuine Windows Phone. This will be accomplished by a requirement that every phone have a unique certificate applied during manufacturing process (similar to an IMEI, but more than a simple number, an actual .cer)
The certificate is to be stored in the "Device Provisioning Partition" during the manufacturing process and is to be destroyed upon completion of manufacturing. Any time a reflash occurs, a new certificate is to be issued.
This represents a significant change from the existing paradigm as your phone will be instantly uniquely identifiable through this method.
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Click to collapse
1. Project Echelon, lol.
2. End of dev'n'hacking, lol.
(now, remove both lol's)
M$ REALLY thinks it may compete with iphone(and apple stupidity), can you believe...

The "uniquely identifiable phone" feature is probably the major reason for this. Face it, outside of these forums, how many "non-genuine" WM builds are there?
What this provides is a token-pair for secure message encryption and a single point of origin/destination for all those notifications.
Thank you for the information, Da_G.

So it seems this will also affect us being able to port a WM7 ROM to another mobile?

So this means evry phone has a unique certificate

They will look for a way around that. For instance...who's to say microsoft are even implementing the certificate etc on prototypes...that would be darn impractical since there's so much chopping and changing in this developer stage, and do we know the servers are up and running? We should cross this bridge when we/Da_G come to it, and look for a bypass if not.
I do not think this money will be wasted if we dont port it to HD2, the fact is I will be the first to donate when pre-orders for the first HTC WP7 handset is outed so that Da_G can use his tools for that too. The JTAG test point will be useful to the community and I know Da_G will use it for the community...actually there's very little personal stuff he could do, and I doubt he would anyways, since all the uses will be of benefit to the community.
We should definitely start look at alternatives to the marketplace now, like Cydia. I'm not sure how the guy's doing it, whether he has servers etc, whether we could use them for multitasking/social networking or other uses. Depends how far microsoft go. Anyways, we all know that if m$ close it down and we cant jailbreak etc, then the community will have to migrate to android.

if i understand the situtation. If every phone is uniquely identifyable it means that imei may be part of cert calculations which means update code would have to be able to generate a cert or request a cert from the update server.
But if the phone checks the certs validity reverse engineering the check could help us fake cert files
EDIT:
after reading on rom deployment it seems that it cert files would need to be faked in order to port to other phones and updates will also involve trickery of its own
Unless somone does something even more awesome

[Poll] Petition to discard the term "Jailbreak" and "root" pertaining to WP7.

[Poll] Petition to discard the term "Jailbreak" and "root" pertaining to WP7.
Simple Poll: Vote "yes" or "no":
Do you want the term "jailbreak" or "root" to pertain to any methods of gaining "access to the command line of the WP7 operating system by removing any limitations imposed upon them by Microsoft.

I prefer the term, "Hyjack".

lemonspeakers said:
Simple Poll: Vote "yes" or "no":
Do you want the term "jailbreak" or "root" to pertain to any methods of gaining "access to the command line of the WP7 operating system by removing any limitations imposed upon them by Microsoft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you go to the White House with this petition say hi to the First Lady from me

Jailbreak is a term that became popular with the iPhone but it's not iPhone specific. Don't know about rooting.
Either way, whoever makes it names it. I don't think that even the First Lady has a lot of influence over it, it's probably outside her husband's jurisdiction. She could ask though.

jailbreak applies to wp7 phones. i don't know if you would be refering directly to:
drm
marketplace
3rd party apps
and root does not apply to wp7... root is a wonderful thing only unix/linux folks get to enjoy. on windows, it's a much more important, fancy cool sounding thing called 'administrator'. ha !
as far as voting either of them off the island, sorry, the island voted you off. (russia, island, yolk)

Oh god yes let's do away with this terminology...you don't root or jailbreak WM or WP7...I simply cringe when people use those terms.

jailbreak can be used but i dont thing we should use root. or we can make something new how about haxed
and its not like ur gonna get banned or shot if u use the word if 200 people vote yes

I reckon since the term 'flash' has been used with winmo devices, that we should continue using that term with WP7 onwards.

just combine them
jailroot........
actually, that sounds nasty

Why not? iPhone owners constantly refer to "bricking" their phones although obviously none of them know what the term actually means since you can't brick an iPhone.

Whatever yal come up with. Im still using the term Jailbreak. Why? because the guy that figured out how to enable tether on wp7, used the term Jailbreak so Jailbreak it is. Besides we were and still locked down like apple.

WP7 = iPhone
Same defects
Same philosophy
Same symptoms
So "jailbreak"... obviously

markgamber said:
Why not? iPhone owners constantly refer to "bricking" their phones although obviously none of them know what the term actually means since you can't brick an iPhone.
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Are you sure about that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unzwt2mU3PI&feature=related

agp64 said:
Are you sure about that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unzwt2mU3PI&feature=related
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here is a better brick

What shall we call it instead?
Going Native?

You have to provide an alternative before demanding people drop the current terminology.
For now, I'm using "jailbreak". It's not accurate, but it is the closest of existing terminology.
Root is not only inaccurate, but just plain wrong. Windows CE not only doesn't call it's highest priv "root", it is not a multi-user system. It only has "SYSTEM", strictly speaking. The levels of access are more a clever illusion provided by the WP7 runtime, rather than an actual permissions system in the traditional sense, with users and such.

in my honest opinion, it should be up to the person who does it. if they crack past the security, they themselves should get the right to name it.

I want the term "cracked" or "admin accesss"

Here Is the thread I started a while ago, where name suggestions was made.
I wanted to do a poll out of it. I think I'm gonna wait a little now and see what comes up in this thread...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=838167

and let me quote my self again :
LOL , I have to much time ,actually it already has a name :
Application Unlock: Most WM5 phones only allow you to load applications that have an acceptable digital signature. If you try to edit the registry or load an application it will give you an error. Application Unlocking removes this barrier and allows you to install any application or edit the registry to your liking.
The WP7 version
Application Unlock: Most WM5 WP7 phones only allow you to load applications that have an acceptable digital signature and are from marked place . If you try to You cannot edit the registry or sideload an application it will give you an error . Application Unlocking removes this barrier and allows you to install Sideload any application or edit the registry to your liking.
and here is the link to it , it is on the bottom of the page .
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ#techicalJargon
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Prize for person that gets the DVP Mango registry editing working

I am willing to give $50 (via paypal) to the person that gets native comm access working on a Mango DVP without the need to revert back to pre-mango. The library must contain:
Registry read and write
File browsing
Ability to interop unlock
** Update **
Now up to $100 USD. raiderfan247365 has matched my $50. Hey you also get bragging rights
** Update **
You also need to provide the source code to this.
Cheers!

MJCS said:
I am willing to give $50 (via paypal) to the person that gets native comm access working on a Mango DVP without the need to revert back to pre-mango. The library must contain:
Registry read and write
File browsing
Ability to interop unlock
You also need to provide the source code to this.
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love your ambition but this is not the way phones get hacked on this site generally. People that tweak these phones do it for many different reasons and money is not generally one of them. I have have asked a few people if getting their hands on a DVP would help the effort but at this point it appears because of the way Dell constructed their drivers, it really might be impossible to accomplish these tasks you seek, but god knows I would love to have that stuff on our phone. Ill match your 50 but I dont think it will matter

Well dell has as far as I know no apps with native code in the marketplace which makes it quite difficult. Als it will be hard to extract the diagnosis app (or similar) and without these apps it wil be quite impossible to find ways to hack the dvp.
File and Registry operations are too different things, and far away now. A hacker will need these basics first and I understand you are willing to spend a lot of money on it, but its very time consuming and without a device or these native apps it will not be an easy task.
If you have some apps which use native code please post it here, some guys on this board can have a look. If not dont than it will be hard to accomplish.

Marvin_S said:
Well dell has as far as I know no apps with native code in the marketplace which makes it quite difficult. Als it will be hard to extract the diagnosis app (or similar) and without these apps it wil be quite impossible to find ways to hack the dvp.
File and Registry operations are too different things, and far away now. A hacker will need these basics first and I understand you are willing to spend a lot of money on it, but its very time consuming and without a device or these native apps it will not be an easy task.
If you have some apps which use native code please post it here, some guys on this board can have a look. If not dont than it will be hard to accomplish.
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Someone did grab the EM app awhile back but is is out of date. I am not sure how he grabbed it in the first place.

Latest HTC radio drivers disables ability to edit the registry

I can still sidle load and my phone is still interop unlocked but neither my registry editor nor my advanced configuration editor work. Way to go HTC and MS, pat your selves on the back. I pay $99 dollars a year to have my phone unlocked and to develop apps but I can't even develop useful apps because APIs and restrictions, I can't customize my phone with out hacks, nothing! And to top it all off the phone has very limited functionality. What is MS thinking? I'm seriously thinking about jumping ship after being a loyal Windows Mobile supporter from the very begging. It use to make me sick to think about how flooded the market is with Android phones and now I know why. I can't even come on here and vent my frustrations or voice my opinions without someone getting offended or warned like I'm some child. Granted that all phones have their fails but not as many as this phone, I wish Windows Mobile was still around, imagine a world with no having to have an Windows live account or no complicated Zune, imagine just being able to do what you want or need to do without any limitations or restrictions. Imagine being able to laugh at Android and iPhone users. I honestly don't see Windows Phone 8 being any better at all. Say what you want, lash out at me with your fan boy comments, report me to your MOD but no matter what you say or do at this rate WP will fail.

what is the radio driver version , is it 5.71??
well u cant blame anyone, WP7 is more secure than IOS.
thats a good thing right?

The purpose of paying $99 per year is to develop applications and publish them to the app store.
Being able to sideload for anything other than testing was just a side benefit.
If all you wanted was to side load apps, the ChevRon utility would have been a much better deal. One time fee verses yearly and 10% the cost.
Surprised that the radio drivers are to blame. Unless there was a flaw in them that was being exploited to make the editor.
It is pretty annoying that you can't directly programatically alter the registry.
But, I believe the provisioning methods still work. Just write a C# app that will provision a file. Then have the app generate an xml provisioning string to alter the registry and apply it.
There are ways to read the registry doing the same thing.
I can probably find a link in the Windows Phone 7 development section on how to do this.
I will update with a link if I find something.
Link for an HTC ProvXML importer and Reg to Prov XML convertor: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=907169&highlight=registry
Try searching that forum for ProvXML. There probably are examples. Serach is temporarily disabled. It always around this time of day for about 20 to 30 minutes.

I was afraid of this. The HTC driver updates may have been to v2 and that breaks the interop-unlock ability (such as allowing ACT and Reg Editors to run). This is known and mentioned by Heathcliff.

Magpir said:
what is the radio driver version , is it 5.71??
well u cant blame anyone, WP7 is more secure than IOS.
thats a good thing right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They just fixed an exploit.
Of course it's good to have your own device unlocked, but if Microsoft or HTC wanted you to modify the registry they would have released that feature natively.
For example LG has a native application to do this on their Windows Phones.
I interop unlocked my girlfriend's Optimus 7 the next day she got it in 1-2 mins.

what has the radio got to do with this?
will downgrading radio help then?

I know, it's my fault for being stupid and accepting the update, it's a little faster but I noticed it drains my battery much quicker and it disabled my reg exploits. to be honest I thought it was the keyboard fix but the keyboard seems to be getting worse. Microsoft is not what it use to be, Steve Jobs was right, MS is not original and always steal Apples ideas, why if the thing that made WM better is what is diving Androids success. I went to the T-Mobile store and was tempted to switch but walked out and have not decided yet but I just give up on WP this year if MS doesn't stop being so Communist like.

JVH3 said:
The purpose of paying $99 per year is to develop applications and publish them to the app store.
Being able to sideload for anything other than testing was just a side benefit.
If all you wanted was to side load apps, the ChevRon utility would have been a much better deal. One time fee verses yearly and 10% the cost.
Surprised that the radio drivers are to blame. Unless there was a flaw in them that was being exploited to make the editor.
It is pretty annoying that you can't directly programatically alter the registry.
But, I believe the provisioning methods still work. Just write a C# app that will provision a file. Then have the app generate an xml provisioning string to alter the registry and apply it.
There are ways to read the registry doing the same thing.
I can probably find a link in the Windows Phone 7 development section on how to do this.
I will update with a link if I find something.
Link for an HTC ProvXML importer and Reg to Prov XML convertor: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=907169&highlight=registry
Try searching that forum for ProvXML. There probably are examples. Serach is temporarily disabled. It always around this time of day for about 20 to 30 minutes.
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Click to collapse
Unfortunately I don't know how to work with ProvXML's. I will check out your link, thanks. do you by any chance know how to change the dark background color back to black using this method?

So you mean to tell me that Windows Phone is actually more secure than the iPhone? God all mighty!! I seriously hope Windows 8 is not as lame as Windows Phone.

sinister1 said:
Unfortunately I don't know how to work with ProvXML's. I will check out your link, thanks. do you by any chance know how to change the dark background color back to black using this method?
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I just read the thread you sent me and it says that the new drivers also disable this method too.

To the OP, they also fixed a problem, If you ran connection setup with your phone in CDMA mode, it would kill 3G and the only real way to get it back was to hard reset the phone. It also broke those apps too.
To note, I manually installed 8107(last weekend, 3 days before vzw's release) and it did break Advanced Config (could not add more colors but, only had 3-4 extra onces) but, I am still able to sideload as I need. So, I'm not sure if it was the firmware that broke it...

I don't know what the big deal is with MS not letting us to simply personalize our phones? I mean really what is wrong with changing a notification tone, background color or tile color? If they really don't want anyone hacking the phone then simply give us those options. In every update instead of giving us simple features and options that we want all they do is secure the damn phone down even more It's almost like Microsoft wants to fail. Who wants to pay for a phone that is dictated to the point to where you can't even do that? As much as I hate to admit it; Android is coming up more and more when I think about my options.

sinister1 said:
I don't know what the big deal is with MS not letting us to simply personalize our phones? I mean really what is wrong with changing a notification tone, background color or tile color? If they really don't want anyone hacking the phone then simply give us those options. In every update instead of giving us simple features and options that we want all they do is secure the damn phone down even more It's almost like Microsoft wants to fail. Who wants to pay for a phone that is dictated to the point to where you can't even do that? As much as I hate to admit it; Android is coming up more and more when I think about my options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it really comes down to what you can do. Opening up the phone, opens it to hack software to run. So, it opens a world of phones with pirated software on it with nothing MS can do it about it. Not everyone will go this route but, there are people who will not buy anything, and that kills the marketplace and vendors who will add to the marketplace.
As I always say, Pirates will always Pirate, block them and they'll find another way around it. BUT with blocking it makes honest people have a harder time to use their devices or software.
I personally just want to customize my phone and use all the home brew apps but, sad to say they will try to block the honest people just to attempt to stop the pirates...
Back to the subject on hand...
So, Connection setup no longer works (I get a Invalid sim if I go to GSM mode or in CDMA mode, Carrer is not in the database), is it possable to get a older version to sideload that would enable registry edits again ?

DavidinCT said:
I guess it really comes down to what you can do. Opening up the phone, opens it to hack software to run. So, it opens a world of phones with pirated software on it with nothing MS can do it about it. Not everyone will go this route but, there are people who will not buy anything, and that kills the marketplace and vendors who will add to the marketplace.
As I always say, Pirates will always Pirate, block them and they'll find another way around it. BUT with blocking it makes honest people have a harder time to use their devices or software.
I personally just want to customize my phone and use all the home brew apps but, sad to say they will try to block the honest people just to attempt to stop the pirates...
Back to the subject on hand...
So, Connection setup no longer works (I get a Invalid sim if I go to GSM mode or in CDMA mode, Carrer is not in the database), is it possable to get a older version to sideload that would enable registry edits again ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had that problem before, I had to toggle airplane mode and WIFI back and forth until it took.

DavidinCT said:
I guess it really comes down to what you can do. Opening up the phone, opens it to hack software to run. So, it opens a world of phones with pirated software on it with nothing MS can do it about it. Not everyone will go this route but, there are people who will not buy anything, and that kills the marketplace and vendors who will add to the marketplace.
As I always say, Pirates will always Pirate, block them and they'll find another way around it. BUT with blocking it makes honest people have a harder time to use their devices or software.
I personally just want to customize my phone and use all the home brew apps but, sad to say they will try to block the honest people just to attempt to stop the pirates...
Back to the subject on hand...
So, Connection setup no longer works (I get a Invalid sim if I go to GSM mode or in CDMA mode, Carrer is not in the database), is it possable to get a older version to sideload that would enable registry edits again ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The registry being locked down is less to do with piracy than control.
Code for the Windows Phone 7 was not a complete rewrite of the OS. They did reuse much of the old Windows Phone 6.5. They might have reviewed each piece and modified most, but they did reuse code. If they give you or developers control of the registry, then the entire device could be put into a state that would make nothing work. Or worse, your phone could be made to do just about anything in the background without your knowledge.
It's one thing to not allow programmers to access it. It's another to stop users from doing it intentionally. Any user doing it themself, knows the risks. And you can always reset the phone.
This latest lockdown might spur more interest in creating custom ROMs. Not sure if it is even possible yet for things like the Titan 2 and the new Nokia phones. But, this is the site to find out or find people doing it.

Your right I don't think it's possible at least not for the Trophy or CDMA phones at the moment, I guess we are just stuck at the state of sucks. Either way MS isn't making any money with their strategy at all the hold like 1% of the market; if it weren't for their PC sales they would have already went under.

sinister1 said:
Your right I don't think it's possible at least not for the Trophy or CDMA phones at the moment, I guess we are just stuck at the state of sucks. Either way MS isn't making any money with their strategy at all the hold like 1% of the market; if it weren't for their PC sales they would have already went under.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft has alot more products as well. SQL Server, Visual Studio (professionals don't use the express versions), Exchange Server, Office, XBox 360, msdn subscriptions, Skype, etc.
Microsoft makes money on all HTC and Samsung Android sales. Somewhere between $10 to $15 for each Samsung Android Phone and somewhere around $5 to $10 for HTC Android phone from patent licensing.
So, every Android sold helps Microsoft. Hopefully they use those dollars to improve Windows Phone 7.
This is actually the real reason that Microsoft can afford to deliver things a little late and still be OK.
They have a ton of cash flowing in all the time and the competition financially supports them.
I'm guessing that there is still a way using provisioning to affect the registry. When exchange servers push policies down, I thought they did that through provisioning. If exchange can do this, then there should be another way as well.
It's also how custom ringtones were created prior to Mango. It would create a xap to create a program that would write a ringtone file using provisioning. Something similar should be doable for the registry. Doing it this way would require you to use a computer to deploy the changes, but you should be able to make them.

Thaks guys for your feed back and support. If anyone knows a way that I can change my background back to default #FF00000 black now that the registry option is gone; please let me know, I will dontae becuse I have lookd at some Android phones and to be honest they are always pluged in and charging and the only other opption is the iPhone

Hmm.. was about to update and then cancelled it when I read this. Does it add tethering? but since it still lets us sideload... I kind of want to update, I don't do any registry stuff and i can always hard reset to interop unlock again right?

slick13 said:
Hmm.. was about to update and then cancelled it when I read this. Does it add tethering? but since it still lets us sideload... I kind of want to update, I don't do any registry stuff and i can always hard reset to interop unlock again right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it actually does nothing other that updates your radio's firmware and blocks exploits, worth less update unless you travel out of the country. This was lame on HTC and Verizon's part. I hate Verizon, MS should just stop doing business with them.