Develop Bugs

copy & paste officially coming

an official statement from Redmond itself
Windows Phone 7 Series will not initially offer copy and paste; instead, we try to solve the most common uses for copy and paste via single-tap action. For example, people often want to take an address and view it on a map, highlight a term in the browser and do a search or copy a phone number to make a call. Instead of the user manually doing a copy and paste in these scenarios, we recognize those situations automatically and make them happen with just one touch. In our early testing people have been pleased with this approach, but we're always listening to feedback and will continue to improve our feature set over time based on what we hear.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/19/microsoft-windows-phone-7-series-will-not-initially-offer-copy/
so what do you guys think now??

So, in other words, copy & paste is officially NOT coming.

I think that this is just PR bull**** which restates what was said at MIX - no copy and paste, and a lame attempt to present smartlinking (which is undoubtedly great stuff) as a solution to this. Saying that something will be done "over time" is equivalent to saying nothing. They don't even specifically say that copy/paste will be done "over time", it's just a vague "our feature set will improve". Of course it will. It just doesn't answer the question.
I frankly don't understand how anyone can buy this as an answer.
In any case, now that PR department took control of the issue, we'll never know anything about it until it happens (which may be 1 week, 3 years after release, or never).

Shasarak said:
So, in other words, copy & paste is officially NOT coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its coming just not anytime soon

havox22 said:
its coming just not anytime soon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They didn't say even this much, you're imagining it because they worded it this way.

if u look at pass history of these companies, when it says a feature is not needed they are really saying is they wont have it available so we will say its not needed till we have it ready.
by the comment they have made they will at some point add copy and paste.
here are some companies that have said stuff like this:
APPLE =
copy and paste is not needed.
ipods users dont need to watch movies as they only use it for music.
ipod users dont need games as they only use it for music.
Sony =
playstation 3 does not need dual shock in there pads as most people dont want it.
motion games are gimicks.

In the examples you're talking about, it took years to implement those things.

vangrieg said:
In the examples you're talking about, it took years to implement those things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true but as microsoft have had copy and paste in wm already, hopefully they have a good idea how to do it and it wont take as long as a company starting from scratch.
saying this i expect it to be about a year after wm7 launch, as im expecting ms to do the same as apple by updating the firmware every year.

havox22 said:
its coming just not anytime soon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source, please.

WP7 is just the iPhone 2007 edition, Micro$oft way !
NO multitasking
NO proper copy and paste
NO way to install from microSD

vangrieg said:
In the examples you're talking about, it took years to implement those things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
woot woot whats a couple years for copy & paste?
Shasarak said:
Source, please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im the source just not very reliable sorry, but im my dream world its coming 100% in this 1 not so much

havox22 said:
an official statement from Redmond itself
Windows Phone 7 Series will not initially offer copy and paste; instead, we try to solve the most common uses for copy and paste via single-tap action. For example, people often want to take an address and view it on a map, highlight a term in the browser and do a search or copy a phone number to make a call. Instead of the user manually doing a copy and paste in these scenarios, we recognize those situations automatically and make them happen with just one touch. In our early testing people have been pleased with this approach, but we're always listening to feedback and will continue to improve our feature set over time based on what we hear.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/19/microsoft-windows-phone-7-series-will-not-initially-offer-copy/
so what do you guys think now??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One thing we need know ,Silverlight is come from WEB,it is sandboxed application,for security reason ,more functions of Silverlight is blocked.
Wp7s hasn't copy and paste that is limited by Silverlight 3, Silverligth don't support full Clipboard access ,and don't support trust applicatioin mode. But we need
cheer Silverlight 4 can do that ,so if wp7s finally using the Silverlight 4,USB mode,Copy and paste and file system access can be work on wp7s theoretically

Ganondolf said:
if u look at pass history of these companies, when it says a feature is not needed they are really saying is they wont have it a
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:-D sure, ... and I really hate those people who always agressively wants, wants, wants something, somebody must, must, must do something ... not, MS may do itselt what HE wants , and he will do it well - really new beautiful things (not only) borns in pains...

WP7 will still suck if it can't run apps from outside a single source...
iPhone is locked to app store, iPhone sucks.
Android has a market but you can still use APKs, Android=Win

mpg187 said:
WP7 will still suck if it can't run apps from outside a single source...
iPhone is locked to app store, iPhone sucks.
Android has a market but you can still use APKs, Android=Win
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can. You just have to be a developer

mpg187 said:
WP7 will still suck if it can't run apps from outside a single source...
iPhone is locked to app store, iPhone sucks.
Android has a market but you can still use APKs, Android=Win
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To bad the media these days runs articles about how unsure Android apps are, and why people should never install apps from outside the trusted market (read: Google Market).
At least Microsoft offers the ability to have five free apps on the marketplace per year. This should cover the hole you otherwise would used 3rd part source installations for.
Also I'm sure they'll offer some business plan, for in-house distribution. Wait and see

Well I am not a developer (yet?) and I still want to install whatever apps I want and not be controlled.
Windows Mobile was a better product that the iPhone but was losing because it was underadvertised, then MS goes and takes everything they were doing right and undoes it...

mpg187 said:
Well I am not a developer (yet?) and I still want to install whatever apps I want and not be controlled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll have to try another planet then.
Consumers are to be protected. It's for your own good. And trust me, if a application isn't on the marketplace, you don't want to install it anyway.

Windcape said:
You'll have to try another planet then.
Consumers are to be protected. It's for your own good. And trust me, if a application isn't on the marketplace, you don't want to install it anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I probably do. There are probably apps that MS would pull. I use APKs on Android for apps I can't find on the Market.

mpg187 said:
I probably do. There are probably apps that MS would pull. I use APKs on Android for apps I can't find on the Market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What sort of apps, and why aren't they on the market?
Enlighten us.

Name suggestions for WP7 unlocking procedure

iPhone - Jailbreaking | Android - Rooting | WP7 - ???
So we have to name the unlocking process of WP7.
Do we really want to stick with iPhones "jailbreaking" (I know I don't want that - WP7 is unique!) If we do nothing now, this will be the case for sure.
I would say, we collect suggestions in this threat and then make a poll out of it. If we then use the new term in forums, blog comments etc. I'm sure we can take this in our own hands.

So I start and suggest:
"liberate"

It's called HardSPL, and no names need to invented.

Hmm... fine with me, but everyone is calling it jailbreaking.
Let's spread the word HardSPL then

lqaddict said:
It's called HardSPL, and no names need to invented.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it isn't called HardSPL , HardSPL is only there to flash and load custom rom's (unsigned ) it has nothing to do with getting around the security of the os ,you could make a HardSPL for wp7 but then you could only flash differed stock rom's.
you also need something to crack the os to load unsigned app's (root excess ) and run native code .
and for the second part isn't a name but I think that rooting or liberating would be a good name.
edit: "Hard"SPL simply means a write protected and modified SPL

why not just say 'crack'?
i mean...thats what is going on right? to crack wp7's security layer

LOL , I have to much time ,actually it already has a name :
Application Unlock: Most WM5 phones only allow you to load applications that have an acceptable digital signature. If you try to edit the registry or load an application it will give you an error. Application Unlocking removes this barrier and allows you to install any application or edit the registry to your liking.
The WP7 version
Application Unlock: Most WM5 WP7 phones only allow you to load applications that have an acceptable digital signature and are from marked place . If you try to You cannot edit the registry or sideload an application it will give you an error . Application Unlocking removes this barrier and allows you to install Sideload any application or edit the registry to your liking.
and here is the link to it , it is on the bottom of the page .
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ#techicalJargon

Because of all the possibilities that are brought to us with WP7, I suggest :
UNLEASH WP7
What do you think ? I like the idea of unleashing the power of Windows Phone 7

....windowsphonebillgatescracking....

Forcebreak.
Liberty

Break(ing).
Breaking Windows... Hurrrrrrrrf!

Since it is based heavily on .NET I was thinking of something along the lines of "Broken Net", or maybe RIP.NET (which has the double meaning of Rest In Peace and a Ripped Net!).
But I am not good at these types of things!

"Windowbreaking" makes a lot of sense to me, e.g.:
"Dude, did you windowbreak your Focus, yet?"

Answer
"I have forcebreak (forcebroken?) my WP7!" I love

raping like "dude did you rape your wp7 device? not yet but I'm raping it now" hhhhh
no seriously lets call it
wp7 metro crashing or metroing
u know something with metro as wp7 has metro interface

My suggestions are "Free" and "De-tile", but I like "Liberate"...it sounds...liberating...

Hijacking ...unless someone already proposed it.
Or HyJacking, for Hyper Jacking.

Going Native.

Farmer Ted said:
Going Native.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. A million times this.

Break-in
Deflowering
Smashing
Raping
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

Contact from Kin Developers

About 2 weeks ago, I took johnkussack's advice (I think it was him) and went to LinkedIn to try t be friends with anyone who came up on the search for "kin phone". In the invite email, I just said that I noticed they worked on the Kin phones and would like to ask them a few questions on how one could write to the phone. I have had 3 responses in the last 2 days.
Guy1: didn't know because he worked on the UI for the Kin Studio
Guy2: kindly told me he couldn't release an unauthorized build and that he would be breaking the law by doing so.
Guy3: This guy worked on the phone for over a year. He first told me I was breaking the DCMA by hacking/reverse engineering Kin, regardless of intent. Then he said this important thing:
"You are absolutely right in assuming that the device is locked; in fact, it has a hardware lock that is common to many such devices. When the devices roll of the manufacturing line the programming fuses are blown (literally) preventing any further programming of the device. This is all handled by hardware so unless you find a flaw with that you are out of luck."
So if this is true (sounds like it is), the "dream" is over. Hopefully there is some way that someone out there can find.
If I get more responses, I will post them here. Don't ask me to go back to these three who already replied and asked them more questions, I think I made some of them mad.

Hmmmm... I don't know whether or not the KIN models will accept OTA updates so that's a good question to ask. If OTA updates are possible then it's inherently possible to change the software. I wonder...

Yes, it was me the one who said about "linkedin".
But i also said "in one word NDA". You should known even before ask that the signed NDA are also legal contracts, so i prevented before asking them.
On the DCMA, yes.. on the USA. Outside the big country, the legal question is different and may not operate with that law. (if ever). If they provide a normal (legal?) way to unbrick my factory mode here, or to use the phone options, then i wait for the cost for it.
And everyone knew that hardware was not the way, just at the moment where first flash attempt failed. "Dream" is doable by software, if anything is to be done.
What i don't get is why to ask for rom rom roooooms, where we need drivers drivers driveeeeers... or sdk's. We won't get it anyway from MS, but no flashing means a rom is futile, non useful,crap pack of bytes.

But i also said "in one word NDA". You should known even before ask that the signed NDA are also legal contracts, so i prevented before asking them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I figured I just take a shot in the dark; hope for the best and expect the worst. Since the phone and suuport from MS was discontinued, maybe the NDAs would be voided.
And everyone knew that hardware was not the way, just at the moment where first flash attempt failed. "Dream" is doable by software, if anything is to be done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know you still think there's a way.
What i don't get is why to ask for rom rom roooooms, where we need drivers drivers driveeeeers... or sdk's. We won't get it anyway from MS, but no flashing means a rom is futile, non useful,crap pack of bytes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just asked if "there is a way to get around the write lock". Had I known ahead of time to ask about drivers or SDKs, I would have put that in the msg.

I strongly believe that we could operate with the device,softwarewise. there is proof that the kin NAND memory (for now on, called "Storage" as label) is writeable. Not sure on the Rom part.
Of course, i mean.. just use it as a normal writable storage memory.
I posted how it could be done and would do it myself but, again, i bricked my phone, and available ones (through bidding sites) are so expensive to buy another one just for this (+ $150). Don't see a way to get it internationally again.
And even doing it, i'm not sure about what could be done just writing on the storage mem....

If the fuse byte is burn't should not it have prevented you from bricking?

kintwouser said:
If the fuse byte is burn't should not it have prevented you from bricking?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nvitem bricked, not flashing bricked. You can succesfully write to the NVItems memory. But i guess it's just configuration memory and not the one "fused".

I just want to mention that jailbreaking a phone is NOT illegal in the United States! Geohot hacked the iphone... Apple went after him... Apple lost.
Also blowing the programming fuses seems a little fishy to me actually. No other phone does that. The majority of other phones have been flashed. I just think it would be pretty odd for a company to do that so that they no longer could update it. I am not sure I believe him. If this really was true... then why wouldn't Apple or Sony be doing it? This also doesn't make sense since Microsoft actually originally intended on putting WP7 on this as well as allowing apps for it. Check this article out:
http://www.intomobile.com/2010/05/12/kin-windows-phone-7-a-lot-closer-than-we-thought/

you must understand, its not possible to blow fuses in the hardware, it would be a top news story if they were able to keep the OS running in complience with the flash memory without it crashing. Obviously that was a lie to discourage us, and i dont even think that was a real kin developer, because microsoft clearly stated that all kin developers would be moved to WP7 or another programming section. And it doesnt matter if its legal or not to jailbrake phones, if we are porting a new OS, we wouldnt have modified the original OS, which is what jailbraking means. Most likely the OS is hidden deep in the flash memory with a write - protection. If you think its saying access denied because they said the fuses were blown, its wrong. They must just have a password or code that needs to be sent continuasly to the phone to access files. If the fuses were blown, then nothing would be able to be accessed by zune, because it would be impossible to reach the memory.

soninja8 said:
Most likely the OS is hidden deep in the flash memory with a write - protection. If you think its saying access denied because they said the fuses were blown, its wrong. They must just have a password or code that needs to be sent continuasly to the phone to access files. If the fuses were blown, then nothing would be able to be accessed by zune, because it would be impossible to reach the memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not my expertise field, but this mobiles can (and in fact they do) have several memories, storing the OS in the ROM memory and all the data on the NAND memory (our "8gb" storage).
Zune software has protocols to query for available storages (requiring its label/id) and is allowed to write/read to it. If you dare to click on update version (at least in the 1st version I tried) it expressed that the option was not "available" to that device without web requesting data, apparently.
So.. in the nand flash we may only have the equivalent of a SD Card. And my last wince PDA showed that as /Storage too, apart from main wince ROM.

You can format the nand memory using win explorer if in fact it is the 8gig storage. I did this and it deleted all pics,albums etc. It was interesting to note that we cannot copy or view these pics without an access error but it does let me delete them.
I just wan't to be able to get my pics off this piece of crap without emailing them.

I posted it once. You are able to:
- Query storage properties (label, size, id,...)
- Query storage folders
- Query folder files.
- Query tracks / albums / playlist / images / anyZuneSupportedFile
- Delete * file (whatever)
- Format the storage
You are "unable" to:
- Upload (create) a file into the device
- Download a file from the device.
MTP protocol tools allows you to do so, from command line (not quite sure if they are available on Win32 OS's), but... fails to operate with this device when it comes to the "unavailable" operations.

I am curious as to which former developers you contacted?
I was doing some research and noticed that Microsoft acquired the company Danger, Inc. After Microsoft purchased them, the former president of Danger went to develop Android (later acquired by Google). One thing I read was that most of Dangers employees left after being purchased by Microsoft. Apparently these people don't like Microsoft all that much! I also looked into it a little more and found one of the founders of Danger who had a twitter account. Of course all of his tweets were via a "KIN". Thought that was interesting. It seems to me that these former Danger employees would be interested in helping out if they don't hold to high of an esteem for the big "M".

seems like this is your first "inside the move" trying-to-hack/reverse a thing, so i will say:
people involved doesnt wanna risk through legal issues, even if they were pissed off, just for "some kids" to have a driver or rom. NDA are strong there, and they could either sign them or leave (if leaving, they don't have the interesting things).
At most you would get bad-mood or good-luck comments, and ocassionaly (very uncommon), leaks (wont happen here).

yeah, they purchased danger for an amazing 500 million dollars, which they later developed the kin with it, they were planning to put windows phone 7 on it, but they were to behind and released it with the old windows CE, then the former developer moved to work on a free source OS, later called android. Google wanted to get android while it was cheap, so they bought that company, and made the old developer as 2nd engineer.

Maybe not worth yet, but we should get more *info* about the SBL mode (aka "Ms Pink Bootstrap), as coinflipper said that it was the way to flash OS or parts (like radio's).
I have been trying even OMA wap WBXML bootstrap examples with it, but as we dont know if our phone is standard, it's like looking for a water drop in the sea of possibilities.
We do not need a guide on how to do something, but what-to-do with it.

Maybe, JUST MAYBE, we could design a program like bitpim. I am a mac user and when I used bitpim with my enV touch, I used to edit all sorts of files. Examples would be phone info, server info etc. We could make a program like that to get the info. I know programming may be hard, but its worth a shot. I hate the OS on this phone, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU PIN APPS! THEY LOOK HORRIBLE

Kinuser1 said:
Maybe, JUST MAYBE, we could design a program like bitpim. I am a mac user and when I used bitpim with my enV touch, I used to edit all sorts of files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We can't. If we have not the protocols or the supported phone features (protocols, drivers, documentation,...) you cannot guess it and put it into visual basic (or Xcode) and then by *magic*get the program you want.

i will admit that i know very little about protocols and drivers but i would like to point out that bitpim is open source, and that the code can be found here ->
http-//sourceforge.net/scm/?type=svn&group_id=75211 (change "-" to ":")
i seem to recall bitpim already having limited support for the kin, but perhaps with a little research and a little code tweaking we can find ways to improve it? i'm not sure how feasable it is as i have very little experience with programming for phones/usb devices, but it's just a thought.

slimeq said:
i will admit that i know very little about protocols and drivers but i would like to point out that bitpim is open source, and that the code can be found here ->
http-//sourceforge.net/scm/?type=svn&group_id=75211 (change "-" to ":")
i seem to recall bitpim already having limited support for the kin, but perhaps with a little research and a little code tweaking we can find ways to improve it? i'm not sure how feasable it is as i have very little experience with programming for phones/usb devices, but it's just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We can't. If we have not the protocols or the supported phone features (protocols, drivers, documentation,...) you cannot guess it and put it into visual basic (or Xcode) and then by *magic*get the program you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The above applies to any software you want. Unless you magically found documentation or files (like OP), there's no way to. So f#cked.
The thing is always the same, tweaking tweaking... what to tweak, huh?

Latest HTC radio drivers disables ability to edit the registry

I can still sidle load and my phone is still interop unlocked but neither my registry editor nor my advanced configuration editor work. Way to go HTC and MS, pat your selves on the back. I pay $99 dollars a year to have my phone unlocked and to develop apps but I can't even develop useful apps because APIs and restrictions, I can't customize my phone with out hacks, nothing! And to top it all off the phone has very limited functionality. What is MS thinking? I'm seriously thinking about jumping ship after being a loyal Windows Mobile supporter from the very begging. It use to make me sick to think about how flooded the market is with Android phones and now I know why. I can't even come on here and vent my frustrations or voice my opinions without someone getting offended or warned like I'm some child. Granted that all phones have their fails but not as many as this phone, I wish Windows Mobile was still around, imagine a world with no having to have an Windows live account or no complicated Zune, imagine just being able to do what you want or need to do without any limitations or restrictions. Imagine being able to laugh at Android and iPhone users. I honestly don't see Windows Phone 8 being any better at all. Say what you want, lash out at me with your fan boy comments, report me to your MOD but no matter what you say or do at this rate WP will fail.

what is the radio driver version , is it 5.71??
well u cant blame anyone, WP7 is more secure than IOS.
thats a good thing right?

The purpose of paying $99 per year is to develop applications and publish them to the app store.
Being able to sideload for anything other than testing was just a side benefit.
If all you wanted was to side load apps, the ChevRon utility would have been a much better deal. One time fee verses yearly and 10% the cost.
Surprised that the radio drivers are to blame. Unless there was a flaw in them that was being exploited to make the editor.
It is pretty annoying that you can't directly programatically alter the registry.
But, I believe the provisioning methods still work. Just write a C# app that will provision a file. Then have the app generate an xml provisioning string to alter the registry and apply it.
There are ways to read the registry doing the same thing.
I can probably find a link in the Windows Phone 7 development section on how to do this.
I will update with a link if I find something.
Link for an HTC ProvXML importer and Reg to Prov XML convertor: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=907169&highlight=registry
Try searching that forum for ProvXML. There probably are examples. Serach is temporarily disabled. It always around this time of day for about 20 to 30 minutes.

I was afraid of this. The HTC driver updates may have been to v2 and that breaks the interop-unlock ability (such as allowing ACT and Reg Editors to run). This is known and mentioned by Heathcliff.

Magpir said:
what is the radio driver version , is it 5.71??
well u cant blame anyone, WP7 is more secure than IOS.
thats a good thing right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They just fixed an exploit.
Of course it's good to have your own device unlocked, but if Microsoft or HTC wanted you to modify the registry they would have released that feature natively.
For example LG has a native application to do this on their Windows Phones.
I interop unlocked my girlfriend's Optimus 7 the next day she got it in 1-2 mins.

what has the radio got to do with this?
will downgrading radio help then?

I know, it's my fault for being stupid and accepting the update, it's a little faster but I noticed it drains my battery much quicker and it disabled my reg exploits. to be honest I thought it was the keyboard fix but the keyboard seems to be getting worse. Microsoft is not what it use to be, Steve Jobs was right, MS is not original and always steal Apples ideas, why if the thing that made WM better is what is diving Androids success. I went to the T-Mobile store and was tempted to switch but walked out and have not decided yet but I just give up on WP this year if MS doesn't stop being so Communist like.

JVH3 said:
The purpose of paying $99 per year is to develop applications and publish them to the app store.
Being able to sideload for anything other than testing was just a side benefit.
If all you wanted was to side load apps, the ChevRon utility would have been a much better deal. One time fee verses yearly and 10% the cost.
Surprised that the radio drivers are to blame. Unless there was a flaw in them that was being exploited to make the editor.
It is pretty annoying that you can't directly programatically alter the registry.
But, I believe the provisioning methods still work. Just write a C# app that will provision a file. Then have the app generate an xml provisioning string to alter the registry and apply it.
There are ways to read the registry doing the same thing.
I can probably find a link in the Windows Phone 7 development section on how to do this.
I will update with a link if I find something.
Link for an HTC ProvXML importer and Reg to Prov XML convertor: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=907169&highlight=registry
Try searching that forum for ProvXML. There probably are examples. Serach is temporarily disabled. It always around this time of day for about 20 to 30 minutes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately I don't know how to work with ProvXML's. I will check out your link, thanks. do you by any chance know how to change the dark background color back to black using this method?

So you mean to tell me that Windows Phone is actually more secure than the iPhone? God all mighty!! I seriously hope Windows 8 is not as lame as Windows Phone.

sinister1 said:
Unfortunately I don't know how to work with ProvXML's. I will check out your link, thanks. do you by any chance know how to change the dark background color back to black using this method?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just read the thread you sent me and it says that the new drivers also disable this method too.

To the OP, they also fixed a problem, If you ran connection setup with your phone in CDMA mode, it would kill 3G and the only real way to get it back was to hard reset the phone. It also broke those apps too.
To note, I manually installed 8107(last weekend, 3 days before vzw's release) and it did break Advanced Config (could not add more colors but, only had 3-4 extra onces) but, I am still able to sideload as I need. So, I'm not sure if it was the firmware that broke it...

I don't know what the big deal is with MS not letting us to simply personalize our phones? I mean really what is wrong with changing a notification tone, background color or tile color? If they really don't want anyone hacking the phone then simply give us those options. In every update instead of giving us simple features and options that we want all they do is secure the damn phone down even more It's almost like Microsoft wants to fail. Who wants to pay for a phone that is dictated to the point to where you can't even do that? As much as I hate to admit it; Android is coming up more and more when I think about my options.

sinister1 said:
I don't know what the big deal is with MS not letting us to simply personalize our phones? I mean really what is wrong with changing a notification tone, background color or tile color? If they really don't want anyone hacking the phone then simply give us those options. In every update instead of giving us simple features and options that we want all they do is secure the damn phone down even more It's almost like Microsoft wants to fail. Who wants to pay for a phone that is dictated to the point to where you can't even do that? As much as I hate to admit it; Android is coming up more and more when I think about my options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it really comes down to what you can do. Opening up the phone, opens it to hack software to run. So, it opens a world of phones with pirated software on it with nothing MS can do it about it. Not everyone will go this route but, there are people who will not buy anything, and that kills the marketplace and vendors who will add to the marketplace.
As I always say, Pirates will always Pirate, block them and they'll find another way around it. BUT with blocking it makes honest people have a harder time to use their devices or software.
I personally just want to customize my phone and use all the home brew apps but, sad to say they will try to block the honest people just to attempt to stop the pirates...
Back to the subject on hand...
So, Connection setup no longer works (I get a Invalid sim if I go to GSM mode or in CDMA mode, Carrer is not in the database), is it possable to get a older version to sideload that would enable registry edits again ?

DavidinCT said:
I guess it really comes down to what you can do. Opening up the phone, opens it to hack software to run. So, it opens a world of phones with pirated software on it with nothing MS can do it about it. Not everyone will go this route but, there are people who will not buy anything, and that kills the marketplace and vendors who will add to the marketplace.
As I always say, Pirates will always Pirate, block them and they'll find another way around it. BUT with blocking it makes honest people have a harder time to use their devices or software.
I personally just want to customize my phone and use all the home brew apps but, sad to say they will try to block the honest people just to attempt to stop the pirates...
Back to the subject on hand...
So, Connection setup no longer works (I get a Invalid sim if I go to GSM mode or in CDMA mode, Carrer is not in the database), is it possable to get a older version to sideload that would enable registry edits again ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had that problem before, I had to toggle airplane mode and WIFI back and forth until it took.

DavidinCT said:
I guess it really comes down to what you can do. Opening up the phone, opens it to hack software to run. So, it opens a world of phones with pirated software on it with nothing MS can do it about it. Not everyone will go this route but, there are people who will not buy anything, and that kills the marketplace and vendors who will add to the marketplace.
As I always say, Pirates will always Pirate, block them and they'll find another way around it. BUT with blocking it makes honest people have a harder time to use their devices or software.
I personally just want to customize my phone and use all the home brew apps but, sad to say they will try to block the honest people just to attempt to stop the pirates...
Back to the subject on hand...
So, Connection setup no longer works (I get a Invalid sim if I go to GSM mode or in CDMA mode, Carrer is not in the database), is it possable to get a older version to sideload that would enable registry edits again ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The registry being locked down is less to do with piracy than control.
Code for the Windows Phone 7 was not a complete rewrite of the OS. They did reuse much of the old Windows Phone 6.5. They might have reviewed each piece and modified most, but they did reuse code. If they give you or developers control of the registry, then the entire device could be put into a state that would make nothing work. Or worse, your phone could be made to do just about anything in the background without your knowledge.
It's one thing to not allow programmers to access it. It's another to stop users from doing it intentionally. Any user doing it themself, knows the risks. And you can always reset the phone.
This latest lockdown might spur more interest in creating custom ROMs. Not sure if it is even possible yet for things like the Titan 2 and the new Nokia phones. But, this is the site to find out or find people doing it.

Your right I don't think it's possible at least not for the Trophy or CDMA phones at the moment, I guess we are just stuck at the state of sucks. Either way MS isn't making any money with their strategy at all the hold like 1% of the market; if it weren't for their PC sales they would have already went under.

sinister1 said:
Your right I don't think it's possible at least not for the Trophy or CDMA phones at the moment, I guess we are just stuck at the state of sucks. Either way MS isn't making any money with their strategy at all the hold like 1% of the market; if it weren't for their PC sales they would have already went under.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft has alot more products as well. SQL Server, Visual Studio (professionals don't use the express versions), Exchange Server, Office, XBox 360, msdn subscriptions, Skype, etc.
Microsoft makes money on all HTC and Samsung Android sales. Somewhere between $10 to $15 for each Samsung Android Phone and somewhere around $5 to $10 for HTC Android phone from patent licensing.
So, every Android sold helps Microsoft. Hopefully they use those dollars to improve Windows Phone 7.
This is actually the real reason that Microsoft can afford to deliver things a little late and still be OK.
They have a ton of cash flowing in all the time and the competition financially supports them.
I'm guessing that there is still a way using provisioning to affect the registry. When exchange servers push policies down, I thought they did that through provisioning. If exchange can do this, then there should be another way as well.
It's also how custom ringtones were created prior to Mango. It would create a xap to create a program that would write a ringtone file using provisioning. Something similar should be doable for the registry. Doing it this way would require you to use a computer to deploy the changes, but you should be able to make them.

Thaks guys for your feed back and support. If anyone knows a way that I can change my background back to default #FF00000 black now that the registry option is gone; please let me know, I will dontae becuse I have lookd at some Android phones and to be honest they are always pluged in and charging and the only other opption is the iPhone

Hmm.. was about to update and then cancelled it when I read this. Does it add tethering? but since it still lets us sideload... I kind of want to update, I don't do any registry stuff and i can always hard reset to interop unlock again right?

slick13 said:
Hmm.. was about to update and then cancelled it when I read this. Does it add tethering? but since it still lets us sideload... I kind of want to update, I don't do any registry stuff and i can always hard reset to interop unlock again right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it actually does nothing other that updates your radio's firmware and blocks exploits, worth less update unless you travel out of the country. This was lame on HTC and Verizon's part. I hate Verizon, MS should just stop doing business with them.

[Q] this may be more general to android but, root question

Out of curiosity why isn't root allowed out of the box on the Nexus 7?
I mean I get that no one should use superuser access/root privileges on anything more than a "need to use" basis and honestly, I'll even admit that with the way the ecosystem has evolved, root isn't really entirely "needed" but, it still boggles my mind that there is no way I can just open up a terminal, type in a code, and get root.
I've tried googling the issue but, I generally get a bunch of responses about things which aren't quite related.

Snow_fox said:
Out of curiosity why isn't root allowed out of the box on the Nexus 7?
I mean I get that no one should use superuser access/root privileges on anything more than a "need to use" basis and honestly, I'll even admit that with the way the ecosystem has evolved, root isn't really entirely "needed" but, it still boggles my mind that there is no way I can just open up a terminal, type in a code, and get root.
I've tried googling the issue but, I generally get a bunch of responses about things which aren't quite related.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think its fine the way it is. its jailbroken out of the box so you can use your device how you wish and that is what matters. You can't expect a company to support users to change everything about it. Then people complain about bricked devices or contact them for support for some custom rom.
However I believe they made it pretty easy to root. They certainly could have made it a lot harder. Anyone who has the skills (or patience to learn how) to use root certainly can root a device based on the tutorials given. And other users who don't want to worry about it don't ever see it. The little bit of effort helps weed out the people who would mess things up for themselves.

firesoul453 said:
I think its fine the way it is. its jailbroken out of the box so you can use your device how you wish and that is what matters. You can't expect a company to support users to change everything about it. Then people complain about bricked devices or contact them for support for some custom rom.
However I believe they made it pretty easy to root. They certainly could have made it a lot harder. Anyone who has the skills (or patience to learn how) to use root certainly can root a device based on the tutorials given. And other users who don't want to worry about it don't ever see it. The little bit of effort helps weed out the people who would mess things up for themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't expect a company to support me changing anything I want about it. If I misuse root privileges, then I don't expect to have a lifeline when I call asus/google. I don't expect say Dell or HP to cover my PC if I try to install ubuntu and I botch something up.
However, refusing to let me have root because "might" mess something up is also flawed logic. I may also for one reason or another need root access.
While I am glad they make it easy to root, the reality is there is they are being counter productive. Honestly, just leaving in root access would decrease the chances of me bricking my device at this point. As of now to get root access I'll have to flash a custom recovery compared to just giving the ability to go into a terminal and type in "oem -su enable" or something.
If the flashing issue is really that big of a deal, then why force users to flash to get what they want in the first place?

Snow_fox said:
I don't expect a company to support me changing anything I want about it. If I misuse root privileges, then I don't expect to have a lifeline when I call asus/google. I don't expect say Dell or HP to cover my PC if I try to install ubuntu and I botch something up.
However, refusing to let me have root because "might" mess something up is also flawed logic. I may also for one reason or another need root access.
While I am glad they make it easy to root, the reality is there is they are being counter productive. Honestly, just leaving in root access would decrease the chances of me bricking my device at this point. As of now to get root access I'll have to flash a custom recovery compared to just giving the ability to go into a terminal and type in "oem -su enable" or something.
If the flashing issue is really that big of a deal, then why force users to flash to get what they want in the first place?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Root can cause problems. It can cause security problems if not used right and can brick not only while rooting but while flashing custom roms and things.
while you and I don't go asking for support, a lot of people do. People try to pass things off as warrenty problems and do call and email asking for support for things not originally on that phone.
And it hurts them in other ways. Google makes pretty much all their money from ads. Rooting makes it easy to block ads and you average rom might have it built right in. The only reason google bothers with android was for the ad money. So there is no incentive for them give root out of the box. They already are more open and free than their main competitions.
You could look at samsung. THey make their money of the hardware and so have been more open with rooting with odin, thought they still don't really care for it (probably because of the support issue)
And the carriers are even worse because rooting allows for things like wireless tethering for free and data is their biggest costs. Their certnaly isn't any reason for carriers to push for root.

I honestly don't know the true answer; only Google would know.
But in my opinion, it's because Android is an open source OS, and giving users root access allows them to alter .apk's very easily. This is bad for developers, because most developers make money from advertisements or in-app currency, and allowing users to alter their .apk to easily block ads or change in-app currency would thwart developer interest.
In Windows for example, the OS is not open source, but users have "root" access because they can always get to the root of every program/file. BUT users CANNOT EASILY alter the programs installed on Windows - if they want a hacked version, they usually have to download a hacked version that someone else hacked.
Whereas in Android, it's very easy for me to download any .apk I want, run my hack app that says "Search for this value and change it to this" and BAM it's now hacked in literally seconds.

firesoul453 said:
Root can cause problems. It can cause security problems if not used right and can brick not only while rooting but while flashing custom roms and things.
while you and I don't go asking for support, a lot of people do. People try to pass things off as warrenty problems and do call and email asking for support for things not originally on that phone.
And it hurts them in other ways. Google makes pretty much all their money from ads. Rooting makes it easy to block ads and you average rom might have it built right in. The only reason google bothers with android was for the ad money. So there is no incentive for them give root out of the box. They already are more open and free than their main competitions.
You could look at samsung. THey make their money of the hardware and so have been more open with rooting with odin, thought they still don't really care for it (probably because of the support issue)
And the carriers are even worse because rooting allows for things like wireless tethering for free and data is their biggest costs. Their certnaly isn't any reason for carriers to push for root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not going to deny adblocking is one of my many vices. While many people have many views on it, all I can say is until ads no longer break my experience completely, I'll be stuck using adblockers. While this is becoming less of a problem with phones/tablets that have faster processors I've had my entire phone lock up before because of certain types of ads my phone couldn't handle. On top of that many are frustrating to deal with as there is no "x" visible for me to tap and I have to back out of whatever I was doing because the phone can't handle the discrepancy in size and find some way to navigate around the ad.
While this is only one example there have been other issues. Hell I had to use a script that required root back when I had my captivate just to get it it to work on my schools wifi. There were a number of issues and I imagine there are still a number of issues that make the lack of root almost a deal breaker.
Sure you can argue from a support issue point of view but, realistically as I already said, I wouldn't have to flash anything if I had access to root... I guess they just chalk it up to "some people are going to do whatever it takes anyway...." but, that just doesn't make much sense to not let people have it anyway.
Geodude074 said:
I honestly don't know the true answer; only Google would know.
But in my opinion, it's because Android is an open source OS, and giving users root access allows them to alter .apk's very easily. This is bad for developers, because most developers make money from advertisements or in-app currency, and allowing users to alter their .apk to easily block ads or change in-app currency would thwart developer interest.
In Windows for example, the OS is not open source, but users have "root" access because they can always get to the root of every program/file. BUT users CANNOT EASILY alter the programs installed on Windows - if they want a hacked version, they usually have to download a hacked version that someone else hacked.
Whereas in Android, it's very easy for me to download any .apk I want, run my hack app that says "Search for this value and change it to this" and BAM it's now hacked in literally seconds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is actually one of the best reasons I think I've ever heard and I've actually asked this question a lot in different places over the years. That's a pretty feasible answer.

Geodude074 said:
I honestly don't know the true answer; only Google would know.
But in my opinion, it's because Android is an open source OS, and giving users root access allows them to alter .apk's very easily. This is bad for developers, because most developers make money from advertisements or in-app currency, and allowing users to alter their .apk to easily block ads or change in-app currency would thwart developer interest.
In Windows for example, the OS is not open source, but users have "root" access because they can always get to the root of every program/file. BUT users CANNOT EASILY alter the programs installed on Windows - if they want a hacked version, they usually have to download a hacked version that someone else hacked.
Whereas in Android, it's very easy for me to download any .apk I want, run my hack app that says "Search for this value and change it to this" and BAM it's now hacked in literally seconds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting has nothing to do with decompiling apks. apk hacking is bad but thats a whole other thing. Anyone can get a hold of pretty much every apk easliy, no need for root.
Windows doesn't really have root, its pretty different. You can give programs administrator privileges I guess, but not exactly the same. Decompiling apks is only easier because its java, it has nothing to do with the os or root privileges.
Don't expect any of these companies support to support root until they have a reason to.