Develop Bugs

So....

Ok here goes..
I've been using HTC devices since the days of the SPV E100.
Every phone I've had has been Windows mobile based.
Now I am thinking about getting WM7 phone but the hardware is just not quite right.
I managed to get a hold and play with a demo Mozart.
At the moment The mozart is fave because it fits snug in my palm and the camera is 8MP. But that is all. There are some bits I want before jumping in.
Processor ...Check
8 mp Camera ... check
Wifi N.. Check
Micro sd.....Errr if you feel like voiding your warranty
Hdmi out... Nope
FM in/out... Nope
OK now for question time.
Has anyone got a conversion chart to show how much space 1 min/ 5 min /10 mins of 720 video takes up on a Mozart?
Does WM7 switch to a removable storage mode like the old windows?

djfuego said:
Ok here goes..
I've been using HTC devices since the days of the SPV E100.
Every phone I've had has been Windows mobile based.
Now I am thinking about getting WM7 phone but the hardware is just not quite right.
I managed to get a hold and play with a demo Mozart.
At the moment The mozart is fave because it fits snug in my palm and the camera is 8MP. But that is all. There are some bits I want before jumping in.
Processor ...Check
8 mp Camera ... check
Wifi N.. Check
Micro sd.....Errr if you feel like voiding your warranty
Hdmi out... Nope
FM in/out... Nope
OK now for question time.
Has anyone got a conversion chart to show how much space 1 min/ 5 min /10 mins of 720 video takes up on a Mozart?
Does WM7 switch to a removable storage mode like the old windows?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can only answer the last question .
wp7 sees all the storage as one big drive (rom+sd) so lets say "512 MB rom + 16GB sd = 16.5GB of storage (we don't know where it is stored )
and remember ! , you can not swap the sd card and use the DATA on it after swapping.

fm in/out? do you mean an fm receiver? if so, it has one. but no, it cannot act as an fm transmitter.

Cheers
The Gate Keeper said:
fm in/out? do you mean an fm receiver? if so, it has one. but no, it cannot act as an fm transmitter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it does have an FM radio receiver that works on the phone?
I'm looking for wm7 phone with similar features as My old Touch Diamond.

djfuego said:
So it does have an FM radio receiver that works on the phone?
I'm looking for wm7 phone with similar features as My old Touch Diamond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it has fm radio

djfuego said:
So it does have an FM radio receiver that works on the phone?
I'm looking for wm7 phone with similar features as My old Touch Diamond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does but for some reason it only works with uneven frequencies. 105,1 105,3 105,5 etc. Unless I'm missing something obvious.

i got it working for frequency 103.2, so i don't think there is an issue with it.

The Gate Keeper said:
i got it working for frequency 103.2, so i don't think there is an issue with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah it was something obvious. I noticed that there was an option to change from North America to World in settings and now I can access a lot more radio channels.

ceesheim said:
I can only answer the last question .
wp7 sees all the storage as one big drive (rom+sd) so lets say "512 MB rom + 16GB sd = 16.5GB of storage (we don't know where it is stored )
and remember ! , you can not swap the sd card and use the DATA on it after swapping.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems counter intuitive. Is there any legitimate reason for this?

ms simply does not allow swapping memory cards for "security reasons" and would like you to use their cloud. which provides you with 25GB(?) of additional storage. for that matter there is simply no need for more storage unless you want to beat the upcoming iPhone 5 with 64GB build in. who needs that?
the internal storag card is somehow "glued" to the device. so even if you find it its just not worth the hassle. for a big upgrade it might be worth to void the warranty, but not for a daily swapping.

nehvada said:
ms simply does not allow swapping memory cards for "security reasons" and would like you to use their cloud. which provides you with 25GB(?) of additional storage. for that matter there is simply no need for more storage unless you want to beat the upcoming iPhone 5 with 64GB build in. who needs that?
the internal storag card is somehow "glued" to the device. so even if you find it its just not worth the hassle. for a big upgrade it might be worth to void the warranty, but not for a daily swapping.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WEll Im not a fan of the cloud, I prefer direct control over my own data. I feel the cloud is bad for data security and integrity. I do not see how a removable storage device is less secure than some random servers that could be located anywhere. And with my current phone I have the option to use "The Cloud" or my Sd cards or both. Why would anyone think it is beneficial for their options to be reduced? Why should I put my personal data into the hands of a complete stranger?

the argument behind the use of cloud over local storage is similar to the one of android vs windows phone.
basically, the reason they made the microSD cards not "hot swappable" is so that they can encrypt the whole card. this way, noone can just come around and take the card out of the phone and get all of it's contents.
in terms of cloud vs local storage and which is more secure, really, neither can be said to be completely secure if you're on the internet. that includes your phone. if your phone uses data, then it's not secure, that includes bluetooth. pretty much everything is hackable. though that is the worst case scenario. in terms of putting your information in strangers hands, you merely being on the internet is doing that. in the hands of google, microsoft, and any other service that tracks cookies, browser patterns, etc. so really, your information is everywhere.

Security is more than just whether your data is secure from hackers. It also keeps app developers' data safe from you. MS knows that they need good apps to sell the platform, and to get devs to put forth the effort they have to show that the platform won't allow the ease of piracy that Android users have become accustomed to. Yes, it is a tradeoff, and it might not be for you, but I do not see that changing anytime soon, so if you wanna go WP7, that's what you're looking at.
I have to admit that the idea really did not appeal to me in theory when I first heard it. No one likes the idea of giving up a freedom. However, after using my Focus for a while, I have found that, for me at least, it is far outweighed by the positive changes.
That being said, the last thing this forum needs is yet another thread devolving into a nonremovable storage bashing session vs. WP7 fanboy argument, so I'm just gonna suggest that you really honestly try out 7 before nailing it over a point or two. It is a much larger change from 6.5 than can be really explained by a quick bullet point list, and really deserves to be approached with a fresh mindset. If it works out, awesome. If it doesn't, then that's just where you're at.

The Gate Keeper said:
the argument behind the use of cloud over local storage is similar to the one of android vs windows phone.
basically, the reason they made the microSD cards not "hot swappable" is so that they can encrypt the whole card. this way, noone can just come around and take the card out of the phone and get all of it's contents.
in terms of cloud vs local storage and which is more secure, really, neither can be said to be completely secure if you're on the internet. that includes your phone. if your phone uses data, then it's not secure, that includes bluetooth. pretty much everything is hackable. though that is the worst case scenario. in terms of putting your information in strangers hands, you merely being on the internet is doing that. in the hands of google, microsoft, and any other service that tracks cookies, browser patterns, etc. so really, your information is everywhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FL5 said:
Security is more than just whether your data is secure from hackers. It also keeps app developers' data safe from you. MS knows that they need good apps to sell the platform, and to get devs to put forth the effort they have to show that the platform won't allow the ease of piracy that Android users have become accustomed to. Yes, it is a tradeoff, and it might not be for you, but I do not see that changing anytime soon, so if you wanna go WP7, that's what you're looking at.
I have to admit that the idea really did not appeal to me in theory when I first heard it. No one likes the idea of giving up a freedom. However, after using my Focus for a while, I have found that, for me at least, it is far outweighed by the positive changes.
That being said, the last thing this forum needs is yet another thread devolving into a nonremovable storage bashing session vs. WP7 fanboy argument, so I'm just gonna suggest that you really honestly try out 7 before nailing it over a point or two. It is a much larger change from 6.5 than can be really explained by a quick bullet point list, and really deserves to be approached with a fresh mindset. If it works out, awesome. If it doesn't, then that's just where you're at.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, if it ever gets ported to HD2 ill try it out , or ill have a look at my friends mozart , but aside from that even tho I still have my concerns I agree this is not the place for argument, and even though I only partly agree with the answers, they did give me somthing to think about and thanks for answering my questions.

MicroSD card support when Windows 7 was being developed

Forgive me if this had been discussed before, but does anyone have any idea why Microsoft would program an OS that supposedly was built from the ground up to NOT support external MicroSD cards? It would seem that in this day and age that it would have been in the top 5 list of "had to be included." Instead they gave the manufacturers their specs for 8GB of internal RAM and that was it. What in the world was Microsoft thinking?
I'm actually happy that Samsung said "screw that" and made a MicroSD slot that was user accessible. That basically forced Microsoft to rethink their strategy, especially after the first patch "fiasco."
Does anyone here have any inside information as to why the MicroSD card wasn't on their list of "must have" for Windows 7? Do you think they were trying to pull an Apple strategy where they can sell an 8GB phone, a 16GB phone, and a 32GB phone to try to make more money?

MicroSD cards ARE supported by WP7, in fact all but a few WP7 devices have them.
What you are looking for is called "removable" & "user-accessible"/"upgradeable" storage.

Scrtcwlvl said:
MicroSD cards ARE supported by WP7, in fact all but a few WP7 devices have them.
What you are looking for is called "removable" & "user-accessible"/"upgradeable" storage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well all the HTC ones use microSD, as well as the DELL Venue Pro, where as all LG phones use NAND, and Samsung uses NAND (with the exception of focus offering an external microSD slot).
The main reason why MS didn't want it exposed is because of the way it uses the microSD card. The use of it in an actual secured RAID 0 format means that it makes the card unusable by any other means making the data secure on the chip. And they knew that people would complain so they didn't want the OEMs to offer it as a user accessible slot, but they didn't enforce it. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing though.

The Gate Keeper said:
And they knew that people would complain so they didn't want the OEMs to offer it as a user accessible slot, but they didn't enforce it. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess now that the genie is out of be bottle it appears that Microsoft will now need to address this dilemma. It appears that people are okay with the idea that once the microSD card is used by a WP7 phone that it can't be reused in something else. I know I'm okay with it if the phone is functional with more space to save music, videos, games, etc. I currently have a 8GB card in my phone, but what I really wanted was a 32GB card but after hearing how unstable it was I held back. It was the inability to use the 32GB card that made me ask the original question.

nathantw said:
I guess now that the genie is out of be bottle it appears that Microsoft will now need to address this dilemma. It appears that people are okay with the idea that once the microSD card is used by a WP7 phone that it can't be reused in something else. I know I'm okay with it if the phone is functional with more space to save music, videos, games, etc. I currently have a 8GB card in my phone, but what I really wanted was a 32GB card but after hearing how unstable it was I held back. It was the inability to use the 32GB card that made me ask the original question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung Focus' implementation of SD is flawed either in hardware level or software level or both. There is no problem using any size or type of SD cards in any other WP7 phones not made by Samsung. MicroSD cards have been around for very long time. There is really no reason for a phone, especially one that is designed to take user removeable SD card, to not support all kinds of cards.
Now you have Samsung Focus not only doesn't support majority of SD cards out there but also refuses to accept updates from Micrsoft. It sounds like Samsung has a hatrate against WP7

I think MS saw the problems that Android had with removable storage and decided to require a minimum of 8gb and do away with any sort of removable storage. This makes the OS more stable as a whole.

i think MS did not want ppl to load android on WP7 dvice thats why they did this to the memory card...

They're trying to stop piracy, there's many Android sites out there on the internet that'll give you APKs of premium android apps that have been ripped off people's memory cards and uploaded.
It doesn't help that with Android you have 24 hours to request a refund and therefore can buy, rip from memory card and refund.
It may seem bad to you but from a developer point of view it's awesome. And before anyone goes on about encryption etc, people will find a way to hack through that they always do.

brummiesteven said:
It doesn't help that with Android you have 24 hours to request a refund and therefore can buy, rip from memory card and refund.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe this is now only 15 minutes, which a lot of people think is a bit too short of a time frame as well. this is why the setup MS did was quite smart, offering the capabilities for devs to implement a trial mode within their full app.

^ care to check facts first. 24 hours?
..........edit .... gate keeper beat me to it.
You can also say the same for IOS, and WebOS. Piracy will come, there is no stopping it.

The Gate Keeper said:
i believe this is now only 15 minutes, which a lot of people think is a bit too short of a time frame as well. this is why the setup MS did was quite smart, offering the capabilities for devs to implement a trial mode within their full app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
which is still enough time to rip the apk and still get a refund.
And as I sit here being frustrated that more devs are going to an ad supported model, I think I have found the reason why....

yea it is enough time to perform that. but to a general user 15 minutes isn't enough time to see if the app was worth the purchase.
the market place needs better search capabilities for trial apps, that's all. once they are there, then more people will start using the trial apps and if they deem it worth it they would buy it.

Official: AT&T Samsung Focus S has 16GB of non-expandable storage

So there you go, 2nd gen phones are officially a failure and yes you can call me a hater I don't care.
Microsoft killed the Zunes so they should have made it mandatory that every OEM offers at least one 32GB+ model. If you want people to ditch their PMP give them a good reason to or they might end up ditching it for an iPhone.
http://www.wpcentral.com/it-s-official-samsung-focus-s-has-16gb-non-expandable-storage
Edit: Let me just temper that by saying they're a failure mostly for us who already have a 1st gen phone. I guess for 1st time buyers there is some incentive but not so much (no extra storage, no microSD support, no hardware keyboard)

Ah well. Looks like I'll just hang onto my original Focus. Too bad about this.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

MartyLK said:
Ah well. Looks like I'll just hang onto my original Focus. Too bad a out this.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, I will stay with my OMNIA 7.
For 1st gen device owners it´s not very interesting to buy a 2nd gen device.
In my eyes a marketing failure...
Personally I don´t need more storage than 16GB and who is using permanently the FFC ?
I always used only simple voip calls without video and besides I absolutely like my OMNIA 7.

Yet another wp7 phone with disappointing specs and insufficient storage.
Finally I am not really surprised if WP7 is failing.
People who love media and need decent storage will probably move to Android or iOS.

I don't care because I'm waiting for the Nokia dual core 4+" Amoled screen LTE Tango phone that will hopefully be here before Q2 of next year.... And if it isn't, I'll just get an Apollo phone in Q4 of 2012 because my focus is still doing a great job and I can wait till then if necessary.
Sent from my Windows Phone Mango Focus using Board Express

I think you mean apollo? Lol. Color me surprised about this phone. These oems are not clueless though. They simply don't care since the old hardware they're using is cheap ad hell and majority of their sales are on android. Samsung sales more bada devices than wp7 at this point. These devices are failing heard at what was supposed be their strongest feature (doubling up as a Zune HD).

I don't see how they expect the devices to sell as a Zune HD replacement, or as a device that is competitive to any of the current high-end smart phones when the OEMs provide sub-par specs on every new WP device. Count me as another one that is sticking with my Focus... and I would have upgraded to the Focus S if they had put a decent amount of local storage in. I'm constantly shuffling things on/off my Focus with 24 GB now, so I'm not going with a smaller storage device.
They don't really have any excuses for the skimping either, as the current GS2 comes in 16 or 32 GB local storage. They've put a cheaper single-core processor in already (and I understand the reasons there), but the Focus S is selling for the same price as a GS2... so there's no excuse to also cut back local storage. This is quite disappointing, as I had already ruled out Nokia's current offerings because of the lack of FFC and small screen size.
I don't want to wait until generation 3 of WP before getting a new device, but the next possibility looks to be the Nokia 900 sometime in the first half of next year. MS really needs to get the OEMs in hand and have them put out devices that have competitive hardware to the other platforms (iPhone 4S, Samsung GS2, Nokia N9, etc.), or they need to start producing their own devices ala XBox. They can't do much worse than the OEMs, as every new device has been a disappointment in one area or another. At this point, I'd be happy if we were getting clones of Android device hardware.

contable said:
Same here, I will stay with my OMNIA 7.
For 1st gen device owners it´s not very interesting to buy a 2nd gen device.
In my eyes a marketing failure...
Personally I don´t need more storage than 16GB and who is using permanently the FFC ?
I always used only simple voip calls without video and besides I absolutely like my OMNIA 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If my current Focus was limited to 16GB like the Focus S is, it would be nearly full. And that's without videos. Fortunately my current Focus has the ability of expanding up to 40GB. That's worth a lot to me.
I think I will overlook any new WP7 hardware until MS gets real with it.

MartyLK said:
If my current Focus was limited to 16GB like the Focus S is, it would be nearly full. And that's without videos. Fortunately my current Focus has the ability of expanding up to 40GB. That's worth a lot to me.
I think I will overlook any new WP7 hardware until MS gets real with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You replaced the internal SD-Card, right ?
I thought this is only possible for HD7 users...
In that case it would be very stupid if you buy a 2nd gen device...

Why anybody would need more than 16gb is beyond me. I have pretty much every app that I can think of installed and I still have 5 GB left.
No need to put pictures and songs because you can easily have those on the cloud.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

contable said:
You replaced the internal SD-Card, right ?
I thought this is only possible for HD7 users...
In that case it would be very stupid if you buy a 2nd gen device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, unless the AT&T version of the HD7 is different, the Focus is immediately accessable to switch cards out, whereas the HD7 is not and requires a warranty voiding disassembly. The Focus doesn't come with a card and requires users to buy a card separately. But the access to the slot is as open and easy as any Android hardware. A 32GB card is my next option, which will give me 40GB with the internal 8GB.
---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------
karan1203 said:
Why anybody would need more than 16gb is beyond me. I have pretty much every app that I can think of installed and I still have 5 GB left.
No need to put pictures and songs because you can easily have those on the cloud.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately for AT&T users, the Cloud is not a viable option because of the limited data service. I would never use it anyway for media. And 2GB of data each month is too small to constantly be streaming music and videos with.

karan1203 said:
Why anybody would need more than 16gb is beyond me. I have pretty much every app that I can think of installed and I still have 5 GB left.
No need to put pictures and songs because you can easily have those on the cloud.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is exactly my situation. Couldn't agree more.
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

Lol people still boasting the cloud as a storage replacement. What if you only have a 200-500 mb data plan?
Thebcloud is useful, very useful.
The cloud is useless as a replacement for true on-device storage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

No one on this planet should be using a smartphone with 500 MB. You are inviting disaster of biblical proportions.

Yea 5GB of data at least
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

The only way I would feel comfortable streaming is with unlimited data.

5GB is pretty tough to run out while streaming music unless you are doing it hours without end. T-mobile has a 10GB option and you'd still be paying less and with better speeds than AT&T.
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

bmstrong said:
No one on this planet should be using a smartphone with 500 MB. You are inviting disaster of biblical proportions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the UK only one maybe two carriers offer over 500MB. Even if that wasn't the case, you don't get 100% coverage so you can't rely exclusively on the cloud. Not to mention scenarios where you travel or damage to your battery. I don't like calling people stupid but some should seriously think about what they say (not addressing you, just some previous posters). Everything on the cloud, really?

Until the industry can produce a battery that can last 40 to 50 hours while streaming on data or WiFi, the Cloud will never be a viable alternative to internal storage for media playing. As it is right now, my iPhone 4 gets 40 hours for music playing and 10 hours for video playing. My Focus gets probably at least 20 hours music playing. Music playing combined with streaming would knock it down to a few hours at best.

When I stream it has little effect on my battery
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

Storage and the Cloud: Let's be reasonable, people...

I started writing this post in another thread but I felt it was better off in it's own. Please read it in full if you're going to respond, I know it's long but you'll just look silly if you don't:
The reality is that most data plans are limited to 500MB, or if you're lucky 1GB, and for the vast majority of users this is way more than enough - in my case I do occasionally go over, which is why I'm on a plan where I just pay £5 per 500MB, it might not be the cheapest option but it's the best for me, and my bills are normally £30 a month, which is very reasonable for the quality of service I get.
Most people will never use the cloud features on their phones, in reality. Fair enough, some people will require a phone with a larger storage capacity. It would be nice to see some phones with larger storage, but there is a massive problem: take a phone with big storage, or with storage size options, to a mobile network, and they'll just charge an absolute fortune for it, so nobody will buy it. That limits your market to SIM free devices- and maybe a few people will buy it then, but probably not enough to make it worth your while.
What you guys that want extra storage have to prove is that you can get enough people on board to make it worthwhile for Samsung/HTC/Nokia to get out of bed and do it. With android/iPhone that isn't a problem because average joe will buy it regardless and probably won't have a clue what they're buying, but Windows Phone is a harder sell, despite being a better system (in a lot of our opinons, I believe).
In the meantime, firstly why are videos so important to you? On a 4" screen my eyesight would be pretty screwed after about half an hour, which is why I have a 32GB Android tablet for videos, with a nice comfortable 10" screen, and it just stays in the bag that comes with me. On the odd occasion I don't have my tablet, then Youtube is normally more than enough and using it only occasionally doesn't hack out at my data plan.
For music, I don't know of anybody who actually listens to their entire music collection on their phone, and in my own perfect world I wish people would realise this. My way around not being able to store all of my music on my phone is to just have a smart playlist of tracks that I have starred, automatically synchronising 250 of my starred tracks to my phone at random- that way I have a nice selection of music I know I like, which in a way is better because I'm making better use of my collection, and I get nice surprises occasionally.
In summary, I just want to ask of everyone: Please just remember almost nobody is in the same precise position as you. It's great that there is a large range of people here with a range of opinions, but you have to understand that assuming that everybody is the same as you is just going to annoy people. There is nothing wrong with expressing that you would like a phone with more internal storage - but say it, then move on. Don't carry on saying it over and over. And if you don't want a phone with more internal storage, say it, then move on. Don't start arguments because you don't agree with people.
I personally love my HTC 7 Pro and won't be changing it. It isn't perfect, but I'm not going to moan endlessly about what's wrong with it, I'm going to give my opinion where it's relevant, and if there's a good response I'll back it up with my reasoning. That's how forums should work.

andrewkeith5 said:
What you guys that want extra storage have to prove is that you can get enough people on board to make it worthwhile for Samsung/HTC/Nokia to get out of bed and do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The best way to show OEMs that it's worthwile would be for one of them to have one out and for the others to see how it sells. Not by having everyone on this forum sending them a letter. The question is they don't they make the effort, at least once? When you see a N9 with 64GB and a Lumia 800 with 16GB it hurts.

Really not sure why its thought only apple can accomplish things like having a smartphone line with large storage options. There's a very simple solution to this: offer a larger 32GB storage option at a $100 premium in limited quantities (just like Dell did with the DVP) and see what happens. In Dell's case it didn't sell well (likely due to their distribution model) and it was withdrawn. OEM's like HTC and Samsung will be better placed to make this option work but again, have the option to withdraw the higher priced option.
In any case, it seems they are still in softly softly mode with WP7 so I doubt anyone but Nokia will be the first to offer higher levels of storage. The cloud though is absolutely not the blanket solution for everybody, though it works for some but for others the current storage options will definitely be insufficient.

Apple did perfectly well. They decided to remove slot for SD cards but logically they offered 32GB and 64GB versions of their devices in order to compensate the loss of expandable storage.
Microsoft removed the SD card slot but is unable to propose any hardware having more than 16GB (actually it is only 13.2GB once the OS is installed).
Sorry but this is not acceptable.
Apple has only one hardware and offers you the choice.
MS works with several OEM and fails to propose more than 16GB.
The lack of storage, the lack of alternative finally made me switch to Android.
Congrats Microsoft !

Good responses, thanks! I think the main reason that none of the OEMs has released a higher capacity model is sheer numbers.
With Android, even if the high capacity model sells 10% of the volume of the low capacity version, that's still a lot of units. With WP7, though, the sales of the single model probably aren't enough to justify making variations as that will just make it harder to sell to the distributor (the network, mainly).
Like you efjay, I'm hopeful that with Nokia on board and Mango being more like the sort of feature-rich software people demand volumes will slowly start to increase and the manufacturers will start to break their model ranges into more variants.
IMHO a MASSIVE problem with the distribution models as they are is exclusivity - with WP7, the absolute key is going to be making every device available everywhere, so as many people see it/try it/want it as conceivably possible. With exclusives, you're limiting distribution of an already limited distribution product, and that's going to harm growth.

arturobandini said:
Apple did perfectly well. They decided to remove slot for SD cards but logically they offered 32GB and 64GB versions of their devices in order to compensate the loss of expandable storage.
Microsoft removed the SD card slot but is unable to propose any hardware having more than 16GB (actually it is only 13.2GB once the OS is installed).
Sorry but this is not acceptable.
Apple has only one hardware and offers you the choice.
MS works with several OEM and fails to propose more than 16GB.
The lack of storage, the lack of alternative finally made me switch to Android.
Congrats Microsoft !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said that Apple didn't do well. What I said, was that WP7 has to be targeted at a big, but specific type of consumer base to work well, and that most of that consumer base probably don't know or care how much storage they have - once the volumes increase, then there will be more variants with more storage, but right now there is no incentive to provide high capacity variants because the networks will price them out of the market and they won't sell to joe public.

andrewkeith5 said:
IMHO a MASSIVE problem with the distribution models as they are is exclusivity - with WP7, the absolute key is going to be making every device available everywhere, so as many people see it/try it/want it as conceivably possible. With exclusives, you're limiting distribution of an already limited distribution product, and that's going to harm growth.
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Difference here is the territory. In Europe (and the UK in particular) the Lumia devices will be on practically every carrier (except it seems O2 cos of their iphone love) and are being backed by a huge marketing campaign and incentives to customers and probably sales staff. You can even pre-order the Nokia phones which has never happened for any other WP7 device. In the US however, the story is radically different - T-Mobile has announced only 1 new device, nothing for Sprint and Verizon, which leaves at&t who will have 3 new devices and none of these devices are being given special treatment, rather they are just being thrown up on the carrier's website with no fanfare. With that kind of lopsided distribution and lack of promotion, along with the acknowledged bias, its no wonder WP7 struggles in the US, and that really is down to poor carrier support. US carriers have no problem stocking the same android model but WP7 is largely ignored. Until that changes there is no way WP7 is going to make nay headway, at least in the US.
I think though, that with Nokia's media push, brand recognition and seemingly well liked devices WP7 can do very well in Europe. It will be interesting to see the sales figures for the Lumia 800/710 this holiday compared to other handsets in Europe and the US. The US looks like it will continue to have a poor selection of WP7 devices and be dominated by ios and android.

andrewkeith5 said:
1) Most people will never use the cloud features on their phones, in reality. Fair enough, some people will require a phone with a larger storage capacity. It would be nice to see some phones with larger storage, but there is a massive problem: take a phone with big storage, or with storage size options, to a mobile network, and they'll just charge an absolute fortune for it, so nobody will buy it. That limits your market to SIM free devices- and maybe a few people will buy it then, but probably not enough to make it worth your while.
2) In the meantime, firstly why are videos so important to you? On a 4" screen my eyesight would be pretty screwed after about half an hour, which is why I have a 32GB Android tablet for videos, with a nice comfortable 10" screen, and it just stays in the bag that comes with me. On the odd occasion I don't have my tablet, then Youtube is normally more than enough and using it only occasionally doesn't hack out at my data plan.
3) to just have a smart playlist of tracks that I have starred, automatically synchronising 250 of my starred tracks to my phone at random- that way I have a nice selection of music I know I like, which in a way is better because I'm making better use of my collection, and I get nice surprises occasionally.
4) In summary, I just want to ask of everyone: Please just remember almost nobody is in the same precise position as you. It's great that there is a large range of people here with a range of opinions, but you have to understand that assuming that everybody is the same as you is just going to annoy people. There is nothing wrong with expressing that you would like a phone with more internal storage - but say it, then move on. Don't carry on saying it over and over. And if you don't want a phone with more internal storage, say it, then move on. Don't start arguments because you don't agree with people.
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1) cloud features, like uploading audio, video, pictures, documents, (FILES) whenever, wherever ? this is extremely important. look at the protests, police brutality, natural disasters, and corruption caught by cell phone cameras. without an instant upload, the phone could be confiscated, the person punished (off record beating) and the public never the wiser. cloud = power, pricey for data or not, it is powerful.
2) videos are something fun to share, with family, friends, coworkers. renting a movie on youtube/itunes/whatever and showing the funny part to a friend is a blast, and stimulates more purchases/rents normally. self-shot videos are fun to share instantly, with other smart phones, via bluetooth or wifi... and guarantees there is a copy should you drop yours in the water/mud/etc. the option of streaming that movie to your 32Gb whatever-pad is awesome, and should be standard practice now. how are you going to watch the HD 3D video you just shot with your smart phone with poor vision , unless you can transfer it to the 32Gb somehow ? this is where wp7 fails, because of whatever reason they restricted moving files around and file access.
3) personally i only keep 2-3Gb of music on my phone. most of it is synced 2-3 times a month now, rented or bought from amazon/whoever, or just ripped from a cd. music is a non-issue, with a 32Gb microsd card. <--- this is another thing I can't understand microsoft crippling.
4) yep, understood. data plans are getting rediculously expensive by the month. 1Gb for $30 ? but then pack on tons of 'apps' that eat data 24/7 as oem junk ? all the US carriers are really sucking in this requard. they have the bandwidth, they have the infrastructure, but greeeeeeeeeed is creating a suck-zone of expense for anyone expecting "UNLIMITED" anything.

Of they support as cards the whole price argument falls on its face. Either support sd or offer more storage options. The cloud is terrible. It leads to worse battery life due to the constant downloading and it can be a terrible experience if reception isn't great where you are.
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

I agree that there are some that may need more space but to spam articles and forums saying that the phone or generation of phones (even tho not complete yet) are going to fail because it doesn't meet that particular persons need is wrong. Take me for example, I'm disappointed that the T-mobile radar has only 8gb of space but I'm not going around saying it's going to be a failure because of it.
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

JustinTV773 said:
I agree that there are some that may need more space but to spam articles and forums saying that the phone or generation of phones (even tho not complete yet) are going to fail because it doesn't meet that particular persons need is wrong. Take me for example, I'm disappointed that the T-mobile radar has only 8gb of space but I'm not going around saying it's going to be a failure because of it.
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express
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The radar is a mid range device. Its comparable to focus flash not focus s.
The storage is a huge problem.
They pushing away early adapters with that, and thats their only marketing worth mentioning right now (their fanbois).
The focus s has < 13gb free on a fresh boot... ... ...
Again. With sd support, the low storage would be nonfactor.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

Right now the best and only option for over 32gb of storage is a first gen Focus. If you want storage get this phone for $0.01 from at&t and spend the money for a 32gb card. I really wanted to upgrade from my focus to something with a FFC but I guess I am a customer that wants too much. It is too much to want a phone with lots of storage AND a FFC. So that means I won't be spending any money on a phone any time soon I guess. Someone lost a sale.

To the OP: I do not carry my entire music collection on my phone. I do however have 15 GB of music on my phone and listen to at least 3 hours of it daily. Like others have mentioned. Apple offers more storage options so you can't say it isn't wanted. Secondly, why should the price be the same if OEMs aren't adding more storage?

bennyj71 said:
To the OP: I do not carry my entire music collection on my phone. I do however have 15 GB of music on my phone and listen to at least 3 hours of it daily. Like others have mentioned. Apple offers more storage options so you can't say it isn't wanted. Secondly, why should the price be the same if OEMs aren't adding more storage?
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This kind of makes my point....15GBs of music by most compression standards amounts to roughly 150 hrs of music, of which this user listens to "at least 3 hours" of daily. Really? And this is supposed to back up the argument for needing more space? Really? And what about video? How much USEFUL video do most of us actually carry around on our phones? If I have a video, that means that Ive probably already seen it and, unlike music, have no reason to be carrying it around with me on my phone. Like most people (I believe) the vast majority of videos that I watch on my phone are streamed i.e YouTube, Netflix etc.
(and as for Apple [on the 4s only] offering more storage meaning that there is suddenly a demand, do not forget that the 2 best selling phones in the world are iphones with 8 and 16 GBs of total storage)
My point is: Unless your phone is your ONLY piece of hardware i.e. NO computer etc., somebody who is complaining about needing 32GBs+ of media storage on their PHONE please in some kind of detail explain how you are actually making use of anywhere close to even 1/10th of it on a daily basis.

That's only music. What about video documents and large apps and games - some of which are 200mb to 2gb just by themselves.
I think your point leaves out obvious things that must be considered.
Storage is only a problem on this platform, and no other. Even feature phones support 32g sd cards these days...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

I love how all your facts include "I" somewhere in the sentence.
The low gb phones sell will because they're the cheapest skus. Cheaper always sells more.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

N8ter said:
That's only music. What about video documents and large apps and games - some of which are 200mb to 2gb just by themselves.
I think your point leaves out obvious things that must be considered.
Storage is only a problem on this platform, and no other. Even feature phones support 32g sd cards these days...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
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Thats only music? Yes, as I pointed out, thats WAY WAY more music than you could actually have any realistic use for on your phone unless you were stranded on the moon for a year. And how many gigs of video (that you've most likey already seen) do you really carry around with you on your phone and make use of on a daily basis?
Like I challenged: if you really need 32GBs+ of storage explain how you actually (in detail) use it all up and actually make use of it.

N8ter said:
I love how all your facts include "I" somewhere in the sentence.
The low gb phones sell will because they're the cheapest skus. Cheaper always sells more.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
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Nitpicking when he uses I to try to cover up your wrongness is quite funny. Cheapest sells more? Not necessarily, the 250GB Xbox 360 outsold the 4GB one even tho it was $100 cheaper. That's just one example.
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

JustinTV773 said:
Nitpicking when he uses I to try to cover up your wrongness is quite funny. Cheapest sells more? Not necessarily, the 250GB Xbox 360 outsold the 4GB one even tho it was $100 cheaper. That's just one example.
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express
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I tend to agree that 8 & 16GB phones sell more because of being cheaper. But when a person wants something larger, they will go to whatever is available instead of settling for the smaller capacities. Myself as an example. When I bought my iPhone 4, I originally bought a 16GB because it was $100 cheaper and then started seeing how the games were filling it up rapidly after all of my music and pictures and other media were on it. I chose to return it for a 32GB model and even payed the return fee to get one.
I know there is a percentage of customers MS will lose out on because of the lower capacity phones they are choosing to stay with. Apple looks to get all customers rather than a majority who may be satisfied with 8 or 16GB.

There will be a percentage of customers that Microsoft lose out on, but I guess they know that, they are not stupid.
Sent from my TITAN X310e using Board Express

Thought about buying GN, but....

Why does the GSM version only have 16GB of memory? Why can't it at least have a microsd slot???
Even the N1 had a microsd slot and then with NS it was removed, but the phone has 16GB built in. That was ok LAST YEAR..
I want a real upgrade, but I can't upgrade to increased storage (with GN) so I can get rid of my Zune and carry a single device.
Will we wind up with a 32GB GSM version or would it be better just to wait and see what the specs look like on SGS3?

I looked at that phone... it's just way too big. For now I will just enjoy my NS on ICS, but I am thinking about either the SGS2 for my next phone (once it has CM9) or just waiting for the SGS3.

maybe just stop listening to stupid noises, at least on the go? hm.

EcPercy said:
Why does the GSM version only have 16GB of memory? Why can't it at least have a microsd slot???
Even the N1 had a microsd slot and then with NS it was removed, but the phone has 16GB built in. That was ok LAST YEAR..
I want a real upgrade, but I can't upgrade to increased storage (with GN) so I can get rid of my Zune and carry a single device.
Will we wind up with a 32GB GSM version or would it be better just to wait and see what the specs look like on SGS3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and then you here rumours of another new one on the way with 64gb ........and it goes on and on and on until you realise that you havent upgraded in ten years waiting for the perfect phone that will be the best one out there for years.

bommel0815 said:
maybe just stop listening to stupid noises, at least on the go? hm.
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LOL!
Well I have 2 hours on the MRT every day + gym 3x a week... I would just like to go from having a phone and dedicated mp3 player to just a phone with all of my music on it.
My Zune.. is nearly 2 years old and has 32GB of storage. You're telling me that a brand new cutting edge phone should be artificially limited to 16GB?
I guess that's what I was getting at. I am at a loss as to why the verizon model has 32GB and the GSM has 16GB. Why even have a 16GB model at all?

jonny_rubber said:
and then you here rumours of another new one on the way with 64gb ........and it goes on and on and on until you realise that you havent upgraded in ten years waiting for the perfect phone that will be the best one out there for years.
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On that note... Why take a step backwards from N1 (My N1 has a 32gb micro sd) to the NS (which I also have) and then stay at the same level with GN?
Maybe I am beating a dead horse, but honestly the GN (other than the screen) doesn't look that appealing because of the storage and the fact that they used the same graphics chip as my NS (slightly overclocked) to drive the huge HD screen. Maybe that doesn't make that big of a difference, but the specs are somewhat of a let down since this is supposed to be setting the bar for other manufacturers with ICS phones.

Right. Why not throw in a 128GB flash storage, just to be on the safe side, right ?
I hate these kind of threads. Do you really need MORE than 16000/5(average track) = 3200 songs on your phone at any time ? Do you need 6400 songs ? Really ? Use Google Music if you really need tens of thousands of tracks with you all the time. Jeez...
Keep in mind that the future IS cloud computing. Don't go bullshitting on me now, it IS KNOWN this is the truth. So if you can't get your act together now, just don't buy THIS particular phone and wait for the phone that is suitable for you and when cloud computing is going to be suitable for you. It's that simple. Rule of thumb: if you're not really keen on buying a 700$ phone (even on contract), because of whatever "defect" from your perspective, just don't buy it.

lambda30 said:
Right. Why not throw in a 128GB flash storage, just to be on the safe side, right ?
I hate these kind of threads. Do you really need MORE than 16000/5(average track) = 3200 songs on your phone at any time ? Do you need 6400 songs ? Really ? Use Google Music if you really need tens of thousands of tracks with you all the time. Jeez...
Keep in mind that the future IS cloud computing. Don't go bullshitting on me now, it IS KNOWN this is the truth. So if you can't get your act together now, just don't buy THIS particular phone and wait for the phone that is suitable for you and when cloud computing is going to be suitable for you. It's that simple. Rule of thumb: if you're not really keen on buying a 700$ phone (even on contract), because of whatever "defect" from your perspective, just don't buy it.
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Click to collapse
I agree with the first point you made but I totally disagree with cloud computing being the future. It is at times reliable, but it is certainly not something I'd want to risk all the way. I live in New York City where the city is heavily relied on tunnels and subways, service is not always available underground. Because of this, cloud computing for music is a complete fail.
I know you're from Europe, but on the American side. Carriers like to put bandwidth limitations on our 3G/4G and even home broadband. If we exceed a specific limit, we get fined/charged/punished because of it. Another fail for cloud computing. If I have a 720p movie, I would rather have it stored on my hard drive than streaming it from a server.
@OP: Okay, we get your point. We respect your opinion, it would appear that your decision is final. So why don't you go back to the Nexus S forums instead of trying to justify your decision? I carry a media player and phone with me. I know its a huge inconvenience, but at the same time... a lot of battery is being used towards music, so I prefer having it on another device. That's another plus.

zephiK said:
I agree with the first point you made but I totally disagree with cloud computing being the future. It is at times reliable, but it is certainly not something I'd want to risk all the way. I live in New York City where the city is heavily relied on tunnels and subways, service is not always available underground. Because of this, cloud computing for music is a complete fail.
I know you're from Europe, but on the American side. Carriers like to put bandwidth limitations on our 3G/4G and even home broadband. If we exceed a specific limit, we get fined/charged/punished because of it. Another fail for cloud computing. If I have a 720p movie, I would rather have it stored on my hard drive than streaming it from a server.
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Click to collapse
As far as reliability goes, I wasn't talking about cloud computing being everywhere right now. IT is out there, but not on global/efficient scale. But in a couple of years, with technology advancements, there won't be any more limitations to spectrum coverage, like in tunnels or areas with no/bad coverage. Also, probably no more bandwidth caps as well. So this IS the future, there's no point in arguing about it. Your point was if it's feasible right now. Well, so and so. You can still rely on Google Music if you want, because it has offline storage. And 3200 offline songs storage capability + streaming when you actually can (not in tunnels), can make your life easier, without the need of 64/128 GB storage. So you can still manage this, if you try; that's what I wanted to say.

lambda30 said:
Right. Why not throw in a 128GB flash storage, just to be on the safe side, right ?
I hate these kind of threads. Do you really need MORE than 16000/5(average track) = 3200 songs on your phone at any time ? Do you need 6400 songs ? Really ? Use Google Music if you really need tens of thousands of tracks with you all the time. Jeez...
Keep in mind that the future IS cloud computing. Don't go bullshitting on me now, it IS KNOWN this is the truth. So if you can't get your act together now, just don't buy THIS particular phone and wait for the phone that is suitable for you and when cloud computing is going to be suitable for you. It's that simple. Rule of thumb: if you're not really keen on buying a 700$ phone (even on contract), because of whatever "defect" from your perspective, just don't buy it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad you dont make the big decisions around here.
Crazy world, ay?

EcPercy said:
On that note... Why take a step backwards from N1 (My N1 has a 32gb micro sd) to the NS (which I also have) and then stay at the same level with GN?
Maybe I am beating a dead horse, but honestly the GN (other than the screen) doesn't look that appealing because of the storage and the fact that they used the same graphics chip as my NS (slightly overclocked) to drive the huge HD screen. Maybe that doesn't make that big of a difference, but the specs are somewhat of a let down since this is supposed to be setting the bar for other manufacturers with ICS phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People seriously need to stop underestimating the Galaxy Nexus hardware, I would dare to say it beats every other phone on the market.
Closest thing would be the iPhone 4S.
I don't know why google didn't make the GSM version 32 gb, but with Google Music you don't need to worry about storage space, when it comes to music at least.
Google Music and an unlimited dataplan works fine, or use spotify.

EcPercy said:
Well I have 2 hours on the MRT every day + gym 3x a week...
Click to expand...
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Yikes you listen to that much music with an mp3 player everyday? You must have no idea what damage you are doing to your stereocilia. Your threshold of activation of your stereocilia is probably permanently shifted by now. Pretty sad considering you are probably young yet sustained that much damage in a short amount of life span.
I highly suggest you take a college course on the anatomy of the ear and how hearing works. Once you realize how delicate your inner ear is, you won't be f*cking with nature by listening to that much direct ear damaging music.

@rbiter said:
Glad you dont make the big decisions around here.
Crazy world, ay?
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That's a very constructive and effective commentary, good job ! I bet mama's very proud of her son's intelligence.

Y'all have to be the most unhelpful bunch I've seen yet. Of course, then again, there's not much to help here.
Maybe OP would be better served with an SGSII, if he needs the microSD slot?

BlackOtaku said:
Y'all have to be the most unhelpful bunch I've seen yet. Of course, then again, there's not much to help here.
Maybe OP would be better served with an SGSII, if he needs the microSD slot?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What help can we even provide him with?
Why ask this on a forum, Google are more likely to know the answer.

SamsungVibrant said:
Yikes you listen to that much music with an mp3 player everyday? You must have no idea what damage you are doing to your stereocilia. Your threshold of activation of your stereocilia is probably permanently shifted by now. Pretty sad considering you are probably young yet sustained that much damage in a short amount of life span.
I highly suggest you take a college course on the anatomy of the ear and how hearing works. Once you realize how delicate your inner ear is, you won't be f*cking with nature by listening to that much direct ear damaging music.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of us use reasonable listening volumes.

zephiK said:
I agree with the first point you made but I totally disagree with cloud computing being the future. It is at times reliable, but it is certainly not something I'd want to risk all the way. I live in New York City where the city is heavily relied on tunnels and subways, service is not always available underground. Because of this, cloud computing for music is a complete fail.
I know you're from Europe, but on the American side. Carriers like to put bandwidth limitations on our 3G/4G and even home broadband. If we exceed a specific limit, we get fined/charged/punished because of it. Another fail for cloud computing. If I have a 720p movie, I would rather have it stored on my hard drive than streaming it from a server.
@OP: Okay, we get your point. We respect your opinion, it would appear that your decision is final. So why don't you go back to the Nexus S forums instead of trying to justify your decision? I carry a media player and phone with me. I know its a huge inconvenience, but at the same time... a lot of battery is being used towards music, so I prefer having it on another device. That's another plus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point is that if you're out and you don't happen to have a certain song you wanna hear on your phone, you can stream it.
It's not meant to be a total replacement.

look, the gnex is the best fone right now. period. and it will be. till the next nexus. get it and you wont regret. the camera and the display will just blow you away. then you will go to the bathroom and come back and turn it on and the display will blow you away again. wat can i say, it has been happening to me every time i turn it on for the past 4 days! Same as you, storage was the biggest concern for me too. But my music and gameloft games fit fine on it, as far as movies go, i just got a usb otg cable and use my existing usb key/microsd. problem solved. for regular use, i would say 32gb is perfect, but 16gb gets the job done quite well, plus usb otg for vids! and i turnd my fone on again and went "wow"!

Gsm its sexier than lte ...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

dario3040 said:
I don't know why google didn't make the GSM version 32 gb, but with Google Music you don't need to worry about storage space, when it comes to music at least.
Google Music and an unlimited dataplan works fine, or use spotify.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say you are spot on here, but... I mentioned before that I spend 2 hours a day on the MRT. For those in the USA you would better know this as the Subway. The internet just isn't good enough for constant streaming while moving along in the train and we have TONS of people all checking the internet as well so that makes your speed go WAY down even when you are above ground.
Now that my phone (NS) has ICS I can see what kind of data google music is using, but I am a little sceptical that you can use google music and not go over your data limit for the month. I have a 12GB plan for data, but I am also sharing that data with my GT 10.1 and I watch TONS of YT videos while at work.
Now for everyone else. Don't get me wrong. I like google phones. I have owned the N1 and NS. I am ready for a phone upgrade now, but torn. I want the newest google experience phone. I prefer that to any of the UI addons that come from the manufacturers. I HATE touch UX on my GT 10.1 and I can't wait to get rid of it for CM9 (when it is out on my tab). I can wait if 16GB is all we get for storage. Maybe the 16GB version is all that will come out until Samsung gets the initial demand met and then we will see larger version like a 32 and 64GB model. (who knows right?)
My NS is currently sitting at less than 2GB of free space and my old GT10.1 (also 16GB) was sitting at about 1GB free after I put some cbt nuggets on it to watch while I am at work to prepare for a certification exam. I have since gotten a GT 10.1 (32GB) and I am not hurting at all for storage, but this is not practical to use as an MP3 player while working out...
So that's it. I am not dogging the hardware. I am just questioning the storage decision with more and more apps coming out that have extra downloads after installing the initial app you are going to need more and more space.