Ok I haven't seen a specific post about this and at the risk of turning this into a "Unix/Android" vs. Windows debate, does anyone know if there's a project going on to port Windows Mobile 7 to the Incredible?
Given the power management shortcomings of Android (as seen by the many battery issue posts) I wouldn't mind giving it a shot and seeing as how Verizon says no Winmo 7 until 2011, it would be an interesting thing to play with if it became available.
Just asking.
yatman60 said:
Ok I haven't seen a specific post about this and at the risk of turning this into a "Unix/Android" vs. Windows debate, does anyone know if there's a project going on to port Windows Mobile 7 to the Incredible?
Given the power management shortcomings of Android (as seen by the many battery issue posts) I wouldn't mind giving it a shot and seeing as how Verizon says no Winmo 7 until 2011, it would be an interesting thing to play with if it became available.
Just asking.
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1) Without CDMA capabilities in the WinMO7 binaries (no source, remember), I think this would be a tall order;
2) I'd love to see your empirical data on "battery shortcomings". I believe that most battery life issues are user-initiated and due to background applications, poor power management settings, or failure to properly clear battery stats and do a full charge while powered off after a ROM install.
The CDMA thing is definitely an issue. I agree though, it would, at the least, be fun to play with.
CDMA will be a big issue. CDMA is not used anywhere near as much as GSM, and Verizon's 4G network will be GSM based, *NOT* CDMA, which leaves just Sprint as the only major CDMA carrier in the US long term, and there's not many world wide either. So unless Sprint is planning a WINMO7 Phone sooner than Verizon, it may be a while before you see it.....
On another note, if your so interested in WinMO, why not look at 6.5?
todd3835 said:
CDMA will be a big issue.
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But not for the reasons you listed. The problem is that Windows Mobile 7 won't be released on a CDMA carrier (in the US anyway) until next year. Without CDMA drivers from Microsoft or the hardware manufacturer, this dream is pretty much dead in the water.
And yes, there will be a CDMA Windows Mobile 7. LTE is still too far off, and unless Microsoft *really* wants to shoot themselves in the foot, they'll have to get the OS on Verizon's CDMA network.
Windows mobile 7 is dead already. Lol
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
I got a friend who has android 2.2 working on his HD2, with windows also, surely its possible on dinc, but who would want it?
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Is it possible?
I don't think so, not without some serious dev power.
Android can be ported easy enough due to the fact that there is source code.
When I was porting Winmo 6.5 to Winmo 6.1 devices, that was easy as well, because the drivers being used were still 6.1, as were parts of the kernel.
In this case, we don't have ANY drivers or kernel to even start with.
todd3835 said:
CDMA will be a big issue. CDMA is not used anywhere near as much as GSM, and Verizon's 4G network will be GSM based, *NOT* CDMA, which leaves just Sprint as the only major CDMA carrier in the US long term, and there's not many world wide either. So unless Sprint is planning a WINMO7 Phone sooner than Verizon, it may be a while before you see it.....
On another note, if your so interested in WinMO, why not look at 6.5?
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I moved from an Imagio which was running a custom ROM winmo 6.5 and admittedly, it was pretty darn good for what i needed it to do. It had 2 MAJOR shortcomings: 1) Processor was WAY too underpowered, and 2) Darn physical buttons on the phone kept breaking (went through 6 replacements in my warranty period).
Aside from that, again at the risk of starting a huge debate, i thought there were several thing about winmo 6.5 that were a lot better then android; specifically the integration with hotmail/live-mail, and the power management.
I have an associate with an HD2 and he is dual booting Winmo 6.5 and Froyo. He's found that Winmo 6.5 gets him on the average at least 5 to 6 more hours of battery time than Froyo.
aaronjb said:
1) Without CDMA capabilities in the WinMO7 binaries (no source, remember), I think this would be a tall order;
2) I'd love to see your empirical data on "battery shortcomings". I believe that most battery life issues are user-initiated and due to background applications, poor power management settings, or failure to properly clear battery stats and do a full charge while powered off after a ROM install.
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Hi Aaron - 1) I forgot about that announcement from Microsoft about not supporting CDMA so good point on that.
2) Well empirical data is direct from a user running an HD2 that Dual Boots to Winmo 6.5 and Android 2.2. He's found that winmo 6.5 will get him about 5 to 6 more hours on his phone than the FROYO build.
That said, to your point about apps and settings: here's the deal - the phones are getting smarter and smarter however we as users aren't evolving nearly as fast. If I have to sit there and babysit my phone and ascertain what's running, manage which radios to turn on and off to salvage battery life, and go through fancy "bump-charging" routines (when the phone's charging mechanism should just do it's job right to begin with) just to get the phone to do what i need it to do, then it's defeating the purpose of being a phone. This is honestly what the iPhone does well - it just works. I'm not an iPhone fan by any means but the fact that a total non-techies can use an iPhone and have it do most of what they need it to do should be a lesson for any phone OS developer.
yatman60 said:
2) Well empirical data is direct from a user running an HD2 that Dual Boots to Winmo 6.5 and Android 2.2. He's found that winmo 6.5 will get him about 5 to 6 more hours on his phone than the FROYO build.
That said, to your point about apps and settings: here's the deal - the phones are getting smarter and smarter however we as users aren't evolving nearly as fast. If I have to sit there and babysit my phone and ascertain what's running, manage which radios to turn on and off to salvage battery life, and go through fancy "bump-charging" routines (when the phone's charging mechanism should just do it's job right to begin with) just to get the phone to do what i need it to do, then it's defeating the purpose of being a phone. This is honestly what the iPhone does well - it just works. I'm not an iPhone fan by any means but the fact that a total non-techies can use an iPhone and have it do most of what they need it to do should be a lesson for any phone OS developer.
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Empirical has a specific meaning, and you've presented anecdotal evidence (though I do get the point you're referencing). I don't do any of this on my android phone. Then again, I don't use many applications which constantly update and monitor statuses over the radios, such as Facebook or Twitter clients. I also don't use my phone as a music player.
I feel that applications which live in the background to monitor and kill processes defeat the purpose of the built-in multitasking model and probably draw more energy than they conserve. I'm baffled as to why so many power Android users feel the need to babysit their operating system.
aaronjb said:
Empirical has a specific meaning, and you've presented anecdotal evidence (though I do get the point you're referencing). I don't do any of this on my android phone. Then again, I don't use many applications which constantly update and monitor statuses over the radios, such as Facebook or Twitter clients. I also don't use my phone as a music player.
I feel that applications which live in the background to monitor and kill processes defeat the purpose of the built-in multitasking model and probably draw more energy than they conserve. I'm baffled as to why so many power Android users feel the need to babysit their operating system.
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True - so technically - no, I don't have hard empirical data with statistical analysis and time based factual data but you got what I meant.
I agree with your assessment on the monitoring and killing. If this were a true user-friendly OS intended for the everyday person (which it seems like more and more Android phones are popping up and fewer and fewer basic phones are available), then it needs to be easy for someone's grandma to use as well as the techies.
Related
I will apologize in advance for this will be long and random because my thoughts bounce around like that
You know I've been trying to figure it all out lately. It seems a good portion of XDA (40% according to this poll) members are liking 6.5.3 moreso than 7. OK...fine. Then we have this huge population of people (34% according to this poll that plan on switching to another mobile OS. Not to mention the slew of people still pissed and wondering if the HD2 will be forward compatible. And the ever increasing amount of people still prefer Sense UI over WP7. Its all so much to address so I just stopped posting for a while...but I wonder?!?!? Is change really that bad?
Its like people have been *****ing for months wanting M$ to give us the scoop on WP7...we have it and we're pissed. lol. lets move past all this...I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people. Why don't we use this forum for sharing information and not bashing something that not out nor is it finished...we don't have even close to half of the info about this phone yet we are judging it based upon insubstantial information.
I remember when the videos started coming out, the guy at the booth mentions that copy/paste hadn't been implemented into the OS yet...then I read on this forum that there is NO COPY/PASTE. One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...so all current users can still have all the things they love currently for the next 10 years (with microsofts string of innovation..lol.) But lets be honest lets look at 6+ as a whole:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
Blandness. This is the biggest issue. I've mentioned this before in other posts. Why is it everytime I want to accomplish anything in the OS I'm lead to an ugly white screen? Settings=ugly. SMS=ugly. Email=Ugly ANY SYSTEM MENU=UGLY. Its no wonder we all like Sense UI from HTC. Go to search and look up Contact Manager...see how many apps you get. Look up music players, lock screens, UI's etc. We got that by dozens. WHY? Now if you look at the scene currently...its because it gives us a choice to personalize, and I agree. But if you look back this was born out of a need for better rather than a need for different/personalization. Media player sucked...it was bland hard to navigate and generally a terrible experience. AC takes the best out the (Iphone) and creates it for WM (S2P)...sure it looks great but the need was much more for a BETTER player. Same can be said for S2U2 et al. HTC needed Manilla/sense to make our outdated UI look appealing/current. Everything about Sense is better than stock, Same can be said for Samsungs Touchwiz. These things were born out of necessity.
Terrible manufacturing. For all the HTC love out there, we all seem to let them get away with the fact that for the past 10 years (up until HD2) they have been giving us awesome software coupled with terrible hardware. It is a fact that we had incomplete/missing drivers and because of this alot of development was stalled or took forever to do. And image how much money HTC made off of shaving costs with shoddy manufacturing.
I won't got too indepth there but to keep it simple, M$ has those basic problems to deal with when making a new OS.
Now look at WP7, Easily top of the line spec sheet just for minimum requirements. I knew we were in for greatness when we got that bit of info. C'mon snapdragon as the minimum...awesome. This also gets rid of those Terrible manufacturing woes...so people can't just put out trash with the M$ OS on it. No more phones that crash from simple program openings. Also WVGA as the standard. No more need to build an app and then port it to other resolutions (WIN..) This coupled with the XNA/Silverlight development tolls make it possible to build for Xbox, PC, Mobile all at the same time...thats awesome and a huge win. Lastly, with Metro, there is no need for user skins on top of the UI. I know alot of you guys are newer to WM, but back in the day...I remember where the home screen was just "the homescreen"..the ugly green or blue homescreen with whatever info you needed on it (Weatherpanel FTW..anyone?) People realized how blah it was and you see where we are now. Look at Sense...its awesome because it gives you all the same info but it looks good and its faster. Metro has live tiles that give you access to EVERYTHING you need on your phone. Its not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation...HTC weather HUB anyone?
So yeah, a phone is a means of communications, a cell phone is a portable way of communication..Wp7 looks to be communication on steroids. I apologize for this extremely long message but i had to get out everything on my mind...in a place where people would read it. If you stuck it out, thank you. If you post telling me that was too long, you're absolutely right. Sorry
Good One..Well said, and I agree
devs, here do not trying to understand, if MS is closing one door, they are opening 100 doors as in the Xbox and other services can be synced among them, so this gives lot of opportunity to devs to come up with exciting creativve ideas.
Also, MS wnats to extend the scope with reaching out to all types of users and segments, and what they have showed here is the perfect thing.I am wwaiting for a review or hands on for a fully furnished and finished wp7 device.
I totally agree with you style. WM5 was a good os, but boring, Then here comes WM6.0 6.1 with touchflo. It was awesome, but the os sucked really bad, had a bunch of bugs and its just a let down. I had a htc 8125 which the phone itself was a resilient phone, but it just was sluggish with any of the OS except WM5 on it. I believe the phone couldn't exactly hold its own with the software but never the less it was slow running wm 6.5. The phone ran the os but I think windows had a bunch of problems. I am no longer using my 8125 cuz the poor thing died from a heart attack and major artery blockage from being used hard lol. I have a 8525 coming in and im planning on putting wm7 on it. Can't wait. I may be in for a let down but if I am then I still have a pretty cool phone coming to me, and it makes me look kinda cool for having it haha.
+1 good post b
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
gogol said:
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
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So true....but there will be a good amount of apps available on launch because its using the Zune software so it will be running Zune Apps...I have a few games on my Zune already...all are nice and smooth.
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
~style1~
Thank you guys for the comments, I already had my flame suit on..
Exactly i was thinking same. MS has to start from 0 ..... new os, new hw, new life.
I like the functionality of new OS but not the GUI . and i believe lot will change till final release. Still i will use wp7 if everything seems to work out.
personally i would like cab installation and customization on wp7
guess how cool it would be lil customization like Sense UI on wp7 .. or adding app by cab ....
but i think whatever wp7 will be, it will worth using.
style1 said:
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
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Hardware is up to par, only the buttons are not the same.
user Xmoo (does something with testing devices) stated on a dutch forum that there are HD2's running WP7 at HTC Taiwan.
Some user here stated (from internal sources) that it is defenitely possible to run WP7. All microsoft said till this date, that the HD2 doenst have the right buttons.
Im agree totally with you on this subject. Its certainly the only way for Microsoft to capture some decent marketshare.
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
pilgrim011 said:
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
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I don' remember reading or hearing confirmation that multitasking won't be available. They clearly stated many times that some kind of multitasking will be available. We shall know everything(or almost everything) after MIX.
Stop judging unfinished OS that you don't even know. What you're saying is pure speculation.
style1 said:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
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I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
It is not specifically the OS, but the "platform" as a whole (screen size, screen type, number of buttons, processor speed, type of buttons, size of RAM, flip phone, slide phone, whatnot, etc).
And yes, it is painful to maintain a lot of builds specific for those kind of varieties.
Not to mention lack OS update because of phone operator / carrier lazyness (I bought my HTC Kaiser unlocked from HTC because I learned that T-Mobile is very slow giving update).
That's why I am glad that Microsoft is now taking control of the minimum hardware specification. Because that would be an advantage of current WM situation, especially to reduce fragmentation as much as possible.
Also the fact that Microsoft will provide OS update and hardware drivers (no more *****ing around about HTC missing drivers).
Instead of developer wandering around to "patch" their apps to work on fragmented platform, or figuring out tricks to over-come missing drivers. They can now enjoy leveraging their creativity for making consistent apps in well supported plaform (WP7).
RAMMANN said:
I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
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style1 said:
I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people.
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The problem is not just that the HD2 won't get an upgrade, it's the combination of it not getting an upgrade plus the fact that WP7 will not be backwards-compatible with Windows Moble applications. That is something almost nobody saw coming.
The effect of the non-backwards-compatibility announcement has been to completely kill off Windows Mobile as a viable platform for commercial software development. (Look at Adobe, look at Skype - there will be plenty of other developers jumping ship, most of whom probably won't make any public announcement about it).
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
style1 said:
One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
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No, it's like you aren't paying attention.
There have been a number of announcements and leaks on the subject of multi-tasking, and we now have a pretty clear idea of how it will work. There can only be one foreground application. When a typical application is moved to the background, it will be suspended, but capable of being resumed from the same point when it is reactivated; it will not, however, be capable of actually doing anything while in the background. It will be possible for certain, select applications and services to actually run in the background rather than being paused, but this facility will be available only to applications developed by MS, or by their "partners" - i.e. phone manufacturers and networks.
style1 said:
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...
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Yes, but no one takes that claim seriously.
Shasarak said:
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
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If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
Maybe we also forget that WM 6.5.x is brand new and just about to be launched. How many phones have you seen with a 6.5.3 stock ROM? There will still be plenty of new phones coming!
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
RAMMANN said:
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
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The point is that no one realised WP7 would be "a completely different OS" - we were all completely blindsided by that. No one expected a situation where there wouldn't be a single WM6 application capable of running on WP7. If, as everyone expected and as HTC allowed HD2 buyers to believe, WP7 had been backwards-compatible, WM6.5 would still be a viable platform for commercial software: people could keep on developing software for WM6, secure in the knowledge that it would run just as well on WP7 when that eventually came along. The lack of backwards-compatibility has killed WM6 stone cold dead as a commercial platform: no sensible commercial developer will develop for it at all, anymore, they'll skip straight to WP7 (if they even bother with a Microsoft version at all). Until the no-backwards-compatibility announcement happened, an upgrade was much less important; now, it really matters.
RAMMANN said:
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
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That's such a ridiculous analogy I hardly know where to begin.... Well, for starters, consider just how much Windows 95 software actually ran under NT - pretty much all of it did, with the only exception being games. And for those who needed gaming support, MS continued with fresh releases based on the Windows 95 development stream - 98, 98SE even ME - all of which could run virtually all NT-oriented software as well. Those releases didn't dry up until after full support for DirectX (and even improved DOS emulation) ended up in the NT line.
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
Shasarak said:
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
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Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications (yeah, we here will certainly do, but most users won't, and even most software companies won't). WM has been going along its way to oblivion in terms of market share, and, frankly, we didn't see many (if any at all) big software guys pumping investment into the platform anyway.
Apart from "big" Windows I'd guess the biggest MS-driven market is the XBox. So they chose compatibility with that "ecosystem" over the WM one. Disappointing as it is, I think that it was the right decision for MS really.
If I may address a few things...Aaron Woodman has gone on record saying that there will be multitasking on the phone. Let me just drop an excerpt:
"Among the details unveiled by him in that interview, we can count the fact that there will be multitasking in the new operating system, although previous rumors pointed otherwise. However, the approach on applications is a little different than before, as they will be included/integrated with the hubs Windows Phone OS 7 sports, and this is something that Microsoft is set to detail at MIX10. The main idea, however, is that apps will be there, and that they will be selected so as to be in line with the new user experience the company is trying to promote."
So maybe I as well as microsoft have NO IDEA WHAT MULTITASKING IS. I'm not trying to make opinions and substantiate them with evidence...I'm looking at the evidence and drawing a conclusion from it. M$ says there will be multitasking in their platform then I have to conclude that there will be multitasking even if I haven't personally seen the way it will be handled on a bigger scale. Trying to prove otherwise without any info is just reckless. Now of course it doesn't seem that they are multitasking in the traditional way and I am curious to see exactly how the system is multitasking but if I may speculate I think it deals with the back button. It seems everytime you switch tasks you press the home button then go into your hub of what you are going to do...once you finish you press the home button and go into the next task...since we know the back button doesn't lead to the Homescreen, maybe the back button leads through all the previous tasks in the order that you went through them. That would be simple and unobtrusive. Thats just my speculation based upon the videos I've seen so far...prove me wrong please.
Also about being blindside you're right it was a shock to most. I think M$ has gone on record saying they will still support WM as WPclassic(WPC) so i don't think you guys have just been outright abandoned...but. I wonder, with all the issues that you are labelling about WP7 but still complaining that the HD2 wont be able to upgrade to it, which side of the fence do you really sit on. You can't really be on both sides. But while I'm being prudent HTC has gone on record many times saying the HD2 will be upgradable to WP7, M$ has said that it doesn't plan on upgrading the device. They site the three button crap as a reason but interestingly enough Tony Wilkinson, Microsoft Australia's Business Operations Director, has said that "there are some hardware components that the HD doesn't have." Could this be why the HD2 coming to Tmoble seems to be a beefier version? We don't know but its always fun to speculate. Since M$ hasn't offically released a FULL spec list we have no idea but we will know at MIX10. Hell maybe M$ has no plan on upgrading HD2 but they are leaving it solely up to the manufactures to deliver on that which is why there are 2 conflicting views coming from HTC and M$...who knows right now. But based on the facts these are likely conclusions.
I won't bother with any other thing said because its more off topic..I don't really care whether people think that people will stop developing on 6.5.X just because WP7 is released... they obviously underestimate this site. Hell what more do people need?
~style~
vangrieg said:
Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
Shasarak said:
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of them will, some won't. I am an HD2 user and I don't care, I don't want to own it for another year anyway, I'd happily exchange it right now if there were something better. I'm sure most HD2 users don't even know what OS their device is running (I know my wife wouldn't know). So we're talking about a few hundred thousand users max. And that's just the user side. A commercial WM developer network is pretty much non-existent right now, apart from SPB, Resco and a couple other small firms.
Well done. I completely agree. I'm looking forward to it. Most users are just bitter and don't want change. I think the main worry with the cooks or other users is that is that it won't offer the amount of customization of 6.5 and below, but they fail to forget that the Iphone is boring until you jailbreak, in the process opening up many possibilities. I think the same will be said for WP7S
I have done a search and hopefully this hasn't been raised under the WP7 forum yet. Sorry if it has.
One thing that wound me up about phones recently is the lack of profiles or being able to automatically switch between profiles (meeting, flight mode etc.) depending on location or entries in the diary.
Under Winmo 6.x I have been using the excellent G-Profile by Ageye which after a bit of set up and messing around did everything you wanted it to. It ate the battery a bit sometimes but awesome bit of kit and you could pretty much forget about it as you knew it would handle everything for you.
So far in all the specs and demos I've seen there doesn't seem to be any mention about if this is already built in and I've not seen in the market place anything which will cater for this.
Does anyone know what the score is on automatic profiles either 3rd party or part of the OS?
Sorry to bump this, but now that people have the WP7's, has anyone had a look to see what provision if any, there is for profiles?
I'd do it myself but my upgrade isn't due till next Wednesday
I use Phone Alarm for the same thing on WM6.5 Its creator has said he cannot port to WM7 as 3rd party apps are not permitted the necessary access to system resources.
I too am waiting to see if MS has included this functionality in the OS but somehow I doubt it at this stage. Manual profiles at most I would expect.
This is why I suspect Android is my next stop, although I would personally take an upgraded TP2 with better specs (see the HD7 Pro or whatever it is ) running WM6.5.
Incidentally - no one talks about new WM6.5 phones and yet we continually get new builds leaked that are being developed......
Have contacted the developer of G-Profile (Ageye), so just waiting for a response. They have already made 3 WP7 apps so that could be good news
Have received a response from Ageye. and he says
"the restrictions from WP7 don't allow to develop apps like G-Profile or G-Alarm (yet). So I'm sorry - but we'll keep on developing for WP7 and maybe it will be possible some day..."
I personally believe that this is a massive shame and can't really understand MS logic at restricting these types of apps from being developed and released. These apps under winmo 6.5 proved to be very successful and extremely useful and would IMO make the phone a little more appealing to the business community or has MS decided to forget about their bread and butter market?
Lets hope MS change their policy and soon
Automatic profile switching is something I'm really going to miss.
I doubt Microsoft will change their policy anytime soon. The whole point of not allowing 3rd party developers this type of access to the phone is to maintain stability, performance and battery life.
Microsoft said it will create exceptions for some developers but only if it's absolutely necessary. I don't now if ageye or even a company like spb is large enough to convince Microsoft.
Unless a new WM6.5 phone comes out in the next few months, then Android here I come I think.....
Totally understand them trying to improve battery life. Think it's one of the main gripes of everyone with any type of smart phone but they need to get a happy medium between the functionality that we, the consumer have become used to and expect from our future devices of which WP7 is or supposed to be.
It is possible to become too blinkered and obsessed with a stated goal and I think that is what MS have been. Automatic profiles, whether built into the OS or third party is pretty essential in business and personal life - at least it has been for me.
I would agree.
I still wonder if we will see any more WM6.5 phones. My gut tells me that the HD2 will have been the last decent one (Europe anyway), but there are still so many leaked builds etc coming out. Why are these being developed if the OEMs are not going to make the phones. If they could take the HD7 Pro, add a SD card slot and put WM 6.5.3 or whatever on it (and call it say the Touch Pro 3), I would probably even break the habit of a lifetime and buy it sim free. To a lesser extent as the specs are lower, even the Desire Z would be OK and probably needs no hardware changes.
Anyone knw when android might be ported to be used on WP7? I plan on getting a Samsung Focus instead of The Captivate so i can get the best of both world, WP7 and Android (if it happens)
Not happening anytime soon.
1. No unlock yet
2. Brand new coding that has to be deciphered
3. Most people buying this phone don't want android
Buy a bloody android phone if you want android!!!!
Good luck getting the device drivers.from MS.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
What's the point? Aren't WP7 phones and Android phones based on the same hardware ?
android on sd is never going to happen .
and nand maybe when there are phones with way better hardware ( what is the point to port android to a phone with same hardware as hd2)
personally I hope android is never coming to a wp7 phone .
Are you kidding me? if you want android go buy an android phone...... thats like, buying an iphone and hoping someone ports WP7 to it. go buy an android phone.....seriously.....
For information ...
Is in the correct section as this is a question about Android on a device WP7
ShadowLegion said:
Anyone knw when android might be ported to be used on WP7? I plan on getting a Samsung Focus instead of The Captivate so i can get the best of both world, WP7 and Android (if it happens)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see any reason for Android on a WP7 device. That would be like a downgrade.
I think it would be great for apps that have not been released. I would be lost w/o out logmein. There are prob some people out there like me that would love to run wm7 and jump to the android os form time to time to do things like that.
I've decided to abandon Android on my HD2 altogether now. There's just too many problems or bugginess with it that it just isn't as good as a nice Energy build of WinMo. All of the work they've done with Android over the months and there's still just not fit for use. Currently the best one I've found is the eVo Carbon Remix build by motoman234. But it's a Sense build and I prefer the more convenient Nexus-based builds. However, ALL of the Nexus-based builds are unusable with the number of widgets I use. And the ONLY Nexus-based build that stayed smooth scrolling with all of my widgets in place was NexusHD2. It has a touchscreen problem where the touch is intermittent.
I just can't see Android being of any use for the WP7 devices. It would never be as usable as WP7.
Quality is perception and experience, not fact.
They are not the same other than they can use the same hardware. They should not be combined. Port the program, not the os.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
I work for a company developing/testing s/w for all mobile devices. I have access to all OS's and I can honestly say that IMO Windows Phone has the nicest user experience and all its lacking are features. Its only been out a week or two so give it time for the bugs to be fixed, features added and the App store to mature and it will be a cracking OS.
Done cleaning on a thread.
All provocative commentary of lqaddict and responses to it have been erased.
I'm leaving this notice as a last attempt to leave this topic open.
Offtopic's provocations or next, I'll close it.
mmelo76 said:
Done cleaning on a thread.
All provocative commentary of lqaddict and responses to it have been erased.
I'm leaving this notice as a last attempt to leave this topic open.
Offtopic's provocations or next, I'll close it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you
MartyLK said:
I've decided to abandon Android on my HD2 altogether now. There's just too many problems or bugginess with it that it just isn't as good as a nice Energy build of WinMo. All of the work they've done with Android over the months and there's still just not fit for use. Currently the best one I've found is the eVo Carbon Remix build by motoman234. But it's a Sense build and I prefer the more convenient Nexus-based builds. However, ALL of the Nexus-based builds are unusable with the number of widgets I use. And the ONLY Nexus-based build that stayed smooth scrolling with all of my widgets in place was NexusHD2. It has a touchscreen problem where the touch is intermittent.
I just can't see Android being of any use for the WP7 devices. It would never be as usable as WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gave up on custom roms altogether two years ago for the same reason. WinMo or Android, there was always at least a handful of huge bugs and/or unacceptable instability and/or limitations and/or stuff that didn't work. I wouldn't say there will NEVER be some alternative OS on these phones and I certainly wouldn't be so pompous to say that there shouldn't be some alternative OS available for those who might want it, but personally, given the speed and flexibility of these devices even now and all the afforementioned problems, I don't think I could really care less. Frankly, if I wanted an Android phone I'd have gotten one but after being spoiled by the iPhone for two years and given all the problems I've had with HTC devices in the past, I have zero interest. Fortunately, everyone is different.
markgamber said:
Thank you
I gave up on custom roms altogether two years ago for the same reason. WinMo or Android, there was always at least a handful of huge bugs and/or unacceptable instability and/or limitations and/or stuff that didn't work. I wouldn't say there will NEVER be some alternative OS on these phones and I certainly wouldn't be so pompous to say that there shouldn't be some alternative OS available for those who might want it, but personally, given the speed and flexibility of these devices even now and all the afforementioned problems, I don't think I could really care less. Frankly, if I wanted an Android phone I'd have gotten one but after being spoiled by the iPhone for two years and given all the problems I've had with HTC devices in the past, I have zero interest. Fortunately, everyone is different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The custom winmo ROMs are a different story to me. There are a lot of varieties available, and I have used a few, but by far the most reliable, stable and interesting of them are the Energy ROMs. I have zero problems using the one I use and it is fast, nimble and efficient. It doesn't require the constant maintenance the OEM ROM required in order to stay smooth and useful.
Before I flashed my first custom winmo on my HD2, I didn't believe guys sitting at their PCs doing these as a hobby could match or exceed a corporation who's workers were doing it for a living. But this one has shown me differently.
Android just doesn't interest me any longer, ever since using an actual Android phone for a few days. I just lost all drive to mess with it now that I have WP7. WP7 isn't any kind of a customizer's system but it is a system that is clean, smooth and exudes quality from every circuit. Android is like a mid-grade Ford sedan compared to WP7, which is more akin to a high-end Lexus or Infiniti.
MartyLK said:
The custom winmo ROMs are a different story to me. There are a lot of varieties available, and I have used a few, but by far the most reliable, stable and interesting of them are the Energy ROMs. I have zero problems using the one I use and it is fast, nimble and efficient. It doesn't require the constant maintenance the OEM ROM required in order to stay smooth and useful.
Before I flashed my first custom winmo on my HD2, I didn't believe guys sitting at their PCs doing these as a hobby could match or exceed a corporation who's workers were doing it for a living. But this one has shown me differently.
Android just doesn't interest me any longer, ever since using an actual Android phone for a few days. I just lost all drive to mess with it now that I have WP7. WP7 isn't any kind of a customizer's system but it is a system that is clean, smooth and exudes quality from every circuit. Android is like a mid-grade Ford sedan compared to WP7, which is more akin to a high-end Lexus or Infiniti.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
car analogies + ford using windows = lol
the lexus steers itself into a parking spot, so you don't have to think. or learn. or try new things. ;-)
anyway....
i think you would be much better off to use an android device, or iphone for taht matter when trying things with android. the wp7 devices will likely be very, very closed, very locked down, and very not fun to develop on. we're talking about developing anything other than wp7 here, so if someone flames that comment, you didn't read the entire bit.
the wp7 phone i played with @ bestbuy was very smooth (no multi-tasking) and did the very few things it did very well. only hung up when i tried to sms myself, and a reboot (i think this might be standard) fixed it quickly.
the hardware of the wp7 phones isn't going to be exactly like Android devices, and some bits will just never have drivers. unfortunately, this is a similar fate that we've been suffereing from with carriers in the US for a long time. they sell a phone, locked to their service, locked to their GSM bands, locked (no root) to their rom, and then when things go sour they expect you to just buy ANOTHER phone from them.
i'm casting a vote for open hardware, open OS's, and open information. wp7 is still very immature, and will gain some speed with enough time. hopefully some Android centric device manufacturers will release specs and drivers for anyone to play with. i'll bet it takes another 4-5 years before people realize just how much better things can be by allowing instead of limiting themselves.
give it time, you'll be able to emulate iphone hardware on the 3rd core of your wp8 device, or Android on the 2nd, all whiel playing a game AND facetime'ing your vbff.
hell, we didn't htink we'd be shooting HD video on phones not long ago ;-)
See, here's the problem; you assume we're just ignorant end users who haven't seen the light about android and open software and all that and it's an incorrect assumption. As a developer I've worked with tons of devices over the years and I know exactly what I want in a phone and Android isn't it. iPhone filled the position for a while but that's not it any longer, also. WP7 looks to be exactly what I want in a phone and it's going to get better. Oh...and I might also add that while I haven't had a lot of experience with it as a developer yet, it's been a blast to work with. Probably more so than the iPhone where I constantly had problems with certs and having to make sure I had the right version of OS, iTunes, XCode and iOS target and whatever other hoops needed to be jumped. It's as much fun as your imagination allows and my wife says I have a pretty good imagination.
markgamber said:
See, here's the problem; you assume we're just ignorant end users who haven't seen the light about android and open software and all that and it's an incorrect assumption. As a developer I've worked with tons of devices over the years and I know exactly what I want in a phone and Android isn't it. iPhone filled the position for a while but that's not it any longer, also. WP7 looks to be exactly what I want in a phone and it's going to get better. Oh...and I might also add that while I haven't had a lot of experience with it as a developer yet, it's been a blast to work with. Probably more so than the iPhone where I constantly had problems with certs and having to make sure I had the right version of OS, iTunes, XCode and iOS target and whatever other hoops needed to be jumped. It's as much fun as your imagination allows and my wife says I have a pretty good imagination.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at WP7 market now, there is even a thread here started - it is already filled with junk.
Anyway, since you are a developer reach out to MS and suggest what you would like to see in the market, and what you would like them to offer to the users.
Happy anniversary, btw.
ohgood said:
car analogies + ford using windows = lol
the lexus steers itself into a parking spot, so you don't have to think. or learn. or try new things. ;-)
anyway....
i think you would be much better off to use an android device, or iphone for taht matter when trying things with android. the wp7 devices will likely be very, very closed, very locked down, and very not fun to develop on. we're talking about developing anything other than wp7 here, so if someone flames that comment, you didn't read the entire bit.
the wp7 phone i played with @ bestbuy was very smooth (no multi-tasking) and did the very few things it did very well. only hung up when i tried to sms myself, and a reboot (i think this might be standard) fixed it quickly.
the hardware of the wp7 phones isn't going to be exactly like Android devices, and some bits will just never have drivers. unfortunately, this is a similar fate that we've been suffereing from with carriers in the US for a long time. they sell a phone, locked to their service, locked to their GSM bands, locked (no root) to their rom, and then when things go sour they expect you to just buy ANOTHER phone from them.
i'm casting a vote for open hardware, open OS's, and open information. wp7 is still very immature, and will gain some speed with enough time. hopefully some Android centric device manufacturers will release specs and drivers for anyone to play with. i'll bet it takes another 4-5 years before people realize just how much better things can be by allowing instead of limiting themselves.
give it time, you'll be able to emulate iphone hardware on the 3rd core of your wp8 device, or Android on the 2nd, all whiel playing a game AND facetime'ing your vbff.
hell, we didn't htink we'd be shooting HD video on phones not long ago ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the thing...from my perspective...I like closed systems. Simple as that. But WP7 is a closed system with high-end quality. I love the iPhone and will grow even fonder of WP7 as it matures, providing MS stays with a closed system and maintains the emphasis on quality over quantity.
I've had my fill of Android and all it offers. I just...erm...it's...boring, to me. It gives me the feel of a used up hooker. It's been in every bed known to humanity.
Hi there,
I am due an upgrade on my Orange contract. In one regard I'm tempted to wait a while to see what new phones are on the horizon - but whether or not I can resist grabbing a phone straight away is another matter.
I was among the first early adopters of android and I'm very pleased with the OS. If I was to stick with it it's quite likely I'd upgrade to the HTC DESIRE HD...
BUT!!! I have been looking at videos demonstrating windows phones and I have to say I've been impressed. I love the UI and everything seems exceptionally fluid - more so than android, which is what I'm on at the moment and up until now has been what I was intending on sticking with.
A few questions I suppose;
Is there multitasking on board?
I'm aware applications are in shorter supply than its competitors - that's not a huge issue to me as long as I have the essentials covered.
How is windows getting on sales wise? Seeing as it's still early I risk going for a platform which could be abandoned by app authors and left stranded and unsuported by websites / media outlets.
So what would you say is the latest and greatest windows 7 phone?
Cheers,
V
Multi-tasking is very limited for the time being. Announcements from microsoft say this will be included in the febuary update.
Windows has said they will back this OS regardless and I believe it. It's certainly doing better than windows mobile and I'm confident that it wont be abandoned.
The best WP7 phone is hard to say. with the OS I'd always go for the biggest screen of maybe a physical keyboard.
I would go for soldered memory (way faster ) like Samsung .
I have a hd7 and it is a real good phone but I would love to play with a Samsung .
z33dev33l said:
Multi-tasking is very limited for the time being. Announcements from microsoft say this will be included in the febuary update.
Windows has said they will back this OS regardless and I believe it. It's certainly doing better than windows mobile and I'm confident that it wont be abandoned.
The best WP7 phone is hard to say. with the OS I'd always go for the biggest screen of maybe a physical keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just to supply correction...
multitasking is only capable at present for particular applications including zune (music/video), web (internet explorer), and a few of the other built in things already on the phone. there is no official word from MS as to if/when multitasking will be available, but there have been rumours (not from MS) that they have been working on some form of it, and it could be seen as early as the first update (but highly unlikely).
and now to your questions...
multitasking = covered above
essentials [apps] covered = well it's best if you tell us what your day to day use of your current Android phone is, and we can help in giving you the information available. At present though, the current APIs do limit the development and release of some of the more desired applications, but a lot have come on board, whether that be through MS doing the leg work, or the companies getting excited about it.
windows getting sales = well they (MS) are still "mum" on it (not saying), as it's still early days. i don't believe MS is out to sell as many as iPhone/Android straight out of the gate, but they have said that they're committed to getting this really going (windows mobile had 4 people employed for it's development, windows phone (it's current form) has over 400 people employed for it's development... you do the math). in terms of it being abandoned, i don't see it happening with their level of commitment. as more people get on board, it will encourage others (devs/companies) to as well.
latest/greatest phone = depends on where you live and what you're after. this is the just one of the best things about windows phone. there are several different flavours from the music/entertainment (surround/hd7), to the expandable memory [read up on this first before jumping into it] (focus), to the picture taker (mozart), to the general use (trophy/omnia 7/optimus 7). of course there are plenty more reasons for each model, but these are just examples of how you could see the phones. the experience is close to the same on each device, so you just need to find one that meets your day to day needs/desires.
hopefully this gives you a bit of insight.
z33dev33l said:
Multi-tasking is very limited for the time being. Announcements from microsoft say this will be included in the febuary update.
Windows has said they will back this OS regardless and I believe it. It's certainly doing better than windows mobile and I'm confident that it wont be abandoned.
The best WP7 phone is hard to say. with the OS I'd always go for the biggest screen of maybe a physical keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The multi-tasking will most probably be included in the updates. there is no definitive list of what is going to be included in the first update besides copy and paste.
Thanks so much everyone - all very insightful replies.
I'd be clicking thank if I could!
My take, after getting the Trophy just for having a look at the OS is that it is indeed worth it. I've actually been on of the people moaning about the change of direction and claiming to desert and go to the Android camp. However, even though this is all very new and scary, I think I'm starting to like this new platform.
I will still install Android on my HD2, but my main phone will be the trophy (until I can get a good phone with SAMOLED )
My gf is jealous of my relationship with my Samsung Omnia 7. Enough said. hehe
jhughesy said:
My gf is jealous of my relationship with my Samsung Omnia 7. Enough said. hehe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i love my HD7, but i wish the Omina 7 was here in the states .
jz9833 said:
i love my HD7, but i wish the Omina 7 was here in the states .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a feeling it will be coming to Verizon eventually. They had the previousl Omnia's and Samsung is going all in on WP7 so I think a LTE Omnia 7 may be in the future.
Omega Ra said:
I have a feeling it will be coming to Verizon eventually. They had the previousl Omnia's and Samsung is going all in on WP7 so I think a LTE Omnia 7 may be in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not so sure about an LTE WP7 device. The reason why HSPA+ is on the HD7 and Venue Pro is because the processor didnt support it. I believe this will also be the case for LTE.
If it is on LTE then I might be going back to verizon even though I said I'd never do that again
jz9833 said:
I'm not so sure about an LTE WP7 device. The reason why HSPA+ is on the HD7 and Venue Pro is because the processor didnt support it. I believe this will also be the case for LTE.
If it is on LTE then I might be going back to verizon even though I said I'd never do that again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well perhaps with the Gen 2 Chassis it will have a processor that will support it, I hope at least.
EDIT: though I would be happy with a version of the focus with 16GB and 512MB RAM. (card slot too)
I am sure everyone now realises how so many critical features are lacking from a phone. It was released 4 months back, but even after 2 long years of wait, it seems to be a 'pre-mature' release.
A 12 year old boy knows that silent mode, copy/paste and multitasking is like a basic thing, and now its almost 5 months since its release and their has been zero updates.
One thing I dont realise is, does it really took microsoft 2 long years to build WP7, what is built in it except the front screen?? All other features which should be in a phone are lacking. And all other interface has been ripped from Zune. So if it takes 2 years for a company to build the front screen of a brick phone with zero options, they should have just contracted SPB Software House Co. and they would have dont it in 6 months and not 2 years.
The Windows Phone 7 team isn't that big actually. Besides, the iPhone idea began in 2005 and took 2 years to come to life.
Of course, I agree that the lack of update so far is disturbing.
They're basic things but not necessary things. My WP7 gets along much better than any iphone or android without those things but of course I dont use mine as a business device. As a media device it is second to none, I used android for 2 years and never once used c&p or put my phone on anything lower than vibrate. As for multi-tasking if apps were built the way they were supposed to be then they wouldn't need it. They have showed vodeos of how some apps were built to go back to the exact same point when hitting the back button. This is likely to keep it from running slow and becoming unresponsive. Sort of like android which is what I will always consider a "brick-phone."
Purple11 said:
It was released 4 months back
...
and now its almost 5 months since its release
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So which is it? Four or five? Oh wait, it's actually three months and a day since it was launched.
Crawl back under your rock please.
Not again
Purple11 said:
I am sure everyone now realises how so many critical features are lacking from a phone. It was released 4 months back, but even after 2 long years of wait, it seems to be a 'pre-mature' release.
A 12 year old boy knows that silent mode, copy/paste and multitasking is like a basic thing, and now its almost 5 months since its release and their has been zero updates.
One thing I dont realise is, does it really took microsoft 2 long years to build WP7, what is built in it except the front screen?? All other features which should be in a phone are lacking. And all other interface has been ripped from Zune. So if it takes 2 years for a company to build the front screen of a brick phone with zero options, they should have just contracted SPB Software House Co. and they would have dont it in 6 months and not 2 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many more of these idiotic threads do we have to have??? Can the mods close this down? "All other features which should be in a phone are lacking", "a brick phone", how many arguments based upon false statements do we have to tolerate? After years in this forum and intelligent discussions with many members, some with opposite viewpoints, this forum has degenerated to this level? This is really sad and a sad day for this forum. Free speech, I understand, this level of speech I don't.
You can say somebody didn't use a search button and didn't post this in existing threads.
But at the same time when will you finally understand that the amount of THE SAME complaints is also a measure of a real WP7 reception among customers?
Better ask MS to push any update soon than moan about people who spend their cash and get disappointed by some MS logic.
doministry said:
But at the same time when will you finally understand that the amount of THE SAME complaints is also a measure of a real WP7 reception among customers?
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Hardly, as regular consumers don't frequent these forums. The views expressed on this website are so far from the way the average consumer feels it's like comparing apples and houses. The vast majority of consumers are perfectly happy with their WP7 devices as is, don't confuse a few thousand tech-geeks on some website with the average soccer mom down the block or her kid.
Something I learned about Microsoft... never underestimate them and write them off
You don't need to look further than the Xbox series for an example.
emigrating said:
Hardly, as regular consumers don't frequent these forums. The views expressed on this website are so far from the way the average consumer feels it's like comparing apples and houses. The vast majority of consumers are perfectly happy with their WP7 devices as is, don't confuse a few thousand tech-geeks on some website with the average soccer mom down the block or her kid.
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This is complete lie and disgusting excuse for not improving products.
This is indeed some kind of racism.
In fact the truth is complely opposite.
As I work with very many people through the year, I can say I have my own personal survey regarding this, with "average" consumer.
Most of people who use any kind of smartphone are aware of these things, they just don't have enough interest to voice them in public.
Underestimating people and treating them like mass of idiots is disgusting.
Stop this lie.
remember this is just the first release.. sure, it has taken them a long time to make it, but that doesnt mean that the time was wasted.. Im pretty impressed with the amount of speed and fluidity MS has been able to squeeze out of our 1ghz devices
considering the animations present (even android is laggy if not overclocked)
copy paste will be released as an update, which isnt a problem coz remember this is a new OS and not that many people will just dive into it on the first release.
as for multitasking, consider this.. a smartphone isnt like a desktop/laptop pc, only one app can be displayed on the screen.. why would you need another app fully running on the background taking up all the cpu resources while it could just be kept on standby and maybe just part of it could be running (notifications part)
this is the main reason why android and winmo 6.5 were slow in the first place (android wanted to use the same idea but just messed up, thats why 3rd party task managers are there to help out)
so at the end of the day, we hate the new OS because we're used to the old one.. which is really not cool
jjblaster3 said:
this is the main reason why android and winmo 6.5 were slow in the first place (android wanted to use the same idea but just messed up, thats why 3rd party task managers are there to help out)
so at the end of the day, we hate the new OS because we're used to the old one.. which is really not cool
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man this is just wrong.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Actually, Android don't do that. Yes, they keep using RAM in background. BUT! In Linux systems RAM is not managed the way they are in Windows.
Windows = The more free memory you have, better, faster.
Linux = Doesn't matter how much free memory you have. It will run smoothly.
So Android do the same thing. Whenever you have free memory, it will keep the App running. When you need more RAM, it will decide which app is useless or less useful and close.
Battery is not affected too.
Under the hood, Android is pretty smart, actually. I just don't like the "above the hood". The widget things and editable home is useful, tough.
jjblaster3 said:
as for multitasking, consider this.. a smartphone isnt like a desktop/laptop pc, only one app can be displayed on the screen.. why would you need another app fully running on the background taking up all the cpu resources while it could just be kept on standby and maybe just part of it could be running (notifications part)
this is the main reason why android and winmo 6.5 were slow in the first place (android wanted to use the same idea but just messed up, thats why 3rd party task managers are there to help out)
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This is just dumb excuse. And not true.
Symbian UIQ devices back in 2007 could multitask without any slowdown.
My computer doesn't slow down even if I heavily multitask.
There are dozens of scenarios when we need it. Becuse current solution leads to idiotic reloading/rebooting apps and processes.
The simplest is when I'm in the Facebook app and get sms and start a short sms chat. When I finnish instead of continuing what I was doing there, I have to reboot everything and go through all the process. It's a crap.
At least IE behaves normally and Word.
Purple11 said:
I am sure everyone now realises how so many critical features are lacking from a phone. It was released 4 months back, but even after 2 long years of wait, it seems to be a 'pre-mature' release.
A 12 year old boy knows that silent mode, copy/paste and multitasking is like a basic thing, and now its almost 5 months since its release and their has been zero updates.
One thing I dont realise is, does it really took microsoft 2 long years to build WP7, what is built in it except the front screen?? All other features which should be in a phone are lacking. And all other interface has been ripped from Zune. So if it takes 2 years for a company to build the front screen of a brick phone with zero options, they should have just contracted SPB Software House Co. and they would have dont it in 6 months and not 2 years.
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Why does is have to have those features though? I like Android, don't get me wrong. But people expect this OS to live by Android standards, when it doesn't need to. It's annoying to see the same thing over and over.
vbetts said:
Why does is have to have those features though? I like Android, don't get me wrong. But people expect this OS to live by Android standards, when it doesn't need to. It's annoying to see the same thing over and over.
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Buhahaha! Great one.
Because it's basics!
With this kind of attitude MS has no chance to do anything with this OS.
I just hope they don't think your way.
People expect things because a very high standard is already established.
Did you live in a cave last few years?!
The same was with processor speeds, capactive screens, big cameras.
Do you release today a smartphone with a 1,3mpx camera "because you live in a different standard"? Lol, man.
To little to late? Don't make me laugh.
WP7 launches with:
- Smooth and intuitive interface.
- Microsoft Office Integration.
- Xbox Live integration
- Zune with Zune Pas integration
- Fastest growing marketplace ever
- Fastest boot time of any OS
- Windows Live Integration
- IE7 Port from Windows
- Smart Multitasking foundation with dehydrating applications
First Update for WP7 next month brings:
- C&P support
- Better memory management for faster app launch
- Drivers for newer Qualcomm chipsets
- CDMA Antenna Support
- Phone Backups on Zune
Fall Update Mango brings:
- IE9 port from Windows
- Silverlight & HTML5 support in browser
- Trident 5 Rendering Engine
- Far Eastern Language Support
- More Unspecified Features
I fail to see how an OS with such promise can be too late in a smartphone war that isn't even close to having half of the cell phone market. User bases for smartphones are expected to double within the next few years so I guess the naysayers should tell them all that they have to choose iOS, Android, or RIM devices because smaller platforms like WP7, WebOS, and MeeGO aren't allowed to compete.
With a little correction:
All those dates and specified updates are RUMOURS. Not a "promise"
Nowhere officially confirmed, anywhere.
Backstage forums, which are nice, give no info about it either,
neither any official MS info channel.
So we can agree with you above once WE SEE IT.
Now we know nothing, or - a little.
JamesAllen said:
How many more of these idiotic threads do we have to have??? Can the mods close this down? "All other features which should be in a phone are lacking", "a brick phone", how many arguments based upon false statements do we have to tolerate? After years in this forum and intelligent discussions with many members, some with opposite viewpoints, this forum has degenerated to this level? This is really sad and a sad day for this forum. Free speech, I understand, this level of speech I don't.
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Well said, nothing to add!
doministry said:
...Most of people who use any kind of smartphone are aware of these things, they just don't have enough interest to voice them in public...
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I think you're right with that statement. Just because all the owners of a smartphone out there don't talk about the OS on their phones doesn't mean that they don't understand the topic. I mean, I know a 60 year old man who has never been interested in such things before and who isn't interested a the moment, but he does know what Android, WP7 and iOS are...
AND: WP7 has got a silent mode! Or are you too dumb to turn off the ringing?
Most of people I know using smartphones are pretty much informed about features.
They don't use forums. But they are really disappointed by many things. This applies to all OS'es.
For instance, iPhone is faulty, not solid product. Besides people carrying this like a baby, most of users have power-button **** up...... Never read about it on any tech news portal. Etc......
doministry said:
With a little correction:
All those dates and specified updates are RUMOURS. Not a "promise"
Nowhere officially confirmed, anywhere.
Backstage forums, which are nice, give no info about it either,
neither any official MS info channel.
So we can agree with you above once WE SEE IT.
Now we know nothing, or - a little.
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Actually, the NoDo update is pretty much confirmed. C&P was showed at CES. The codename was confirmed by Charlie Kindel from MS. Paul Thurrott is more than a reliable source of anything MS so I'm willing to bet he's right especially since all of the above features are supported in WCE7.