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Yeah windows phone 7 is now reality its shown i mean is being showing right now....
Awesome
[16/2/2010] Hello, All as you all might have know that there are different hubs in Windows Phone 7 series. So what do you think about this hub idea? To what extent did you liked it, Share your thoughs opinions etc... Those people who dont know what is this hub, here is a quick intro :
"Windows Phone 7 Series creates an unrivaled set of integrated experiences on a phone through Windows Phone hubs. Hubs bring together related content from the Web, applications and services into a single view to simplify common tasks. Windows Phone 7 Series includes six hubs built on specific themes reflecting activities that matter most to people."
There are total 6 hubs namely:
1. People
2. Pictures
3. Games
4. Music + Video
5. Marketplace
6. Office
Also what is you opinion about the new marketplace hub for windows phone 7 series, its looking great here.
Latest update via techz.in
4:08PM Everything not explained today will be available on the MIX next month, might be more exicting than the MWC2010.
4:08PM David Christopher from AT&T is now talking about how he thinks Windows Phone will be great and how AT&T will help launching Windows Phone 7.
4:10PM Now Olaf Swantee from Orange on stage. Orange released the first ever smartphone to run Windows Mobile in the US.
4:12PM “Windows Phone 7 will not be just a product, but this is a whole new way to work with our partners.”
4:14PM Steve Ballmer is now talking about how ‘7′ might be their lucky number. Windows 7 was great and he hopes that Windows Phone 7 is just as great, or even better.
4:15PM “Windows Phone 7 Series will be available this holiday season, 2010.”
4:16PM “And with that, I want to wrap up. We hope you enjoy the conference.”
4:17PM Now time for questions, trying to keep up with those, but will be difficult!
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Questions on the conference:
Question: “Other developers provide free software, will Microsoft ever stop charging a license fee?”
Answer: We are a software company, not a hardware provider. We sell software, not the hardware, that’s our business model. (Short: No)
Question: “If you want to provide consistency to the device, how are you gong to allow partners to differentiate themselves?”
Answer: Consistency in the OS can coexist with different applications in the operation. Partners will be able to divers themselves by making different applications to add in the operating system. (Steve Ballmer) I got that same question when we went from Dos to Windows, we brought more consistency and people thought it wouldn’t allow partners to differentiate themselves. Look now, how many different PC’s are sold, not one of them is equal!
Question: “Will you support Flash 10.1 in any way on Windows Phone 7?”
Answer: Out of the box Windows Phone 7 will not support Flash. (Steve Ballmer) WE have NO OBJECTION against Flash, it’s just that it’s not ready.
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For those who cant stream it live coz of slow internet can read Live minute to minute coverage here.
Well as I can see, no multitasking, no cab installation, even no file explorer.... that thing is just for the consumers.
very bad ...they have should included all this in the current windows mobile...
Nice Iphone
What about the windows 7 OS? This looks like "project pink" which I really dont care about.
So, all rumors are correct. You also have to use the Zune software. Well, as for the interface, it's better than iPhone.
Lots of disappointments
Anywyas now Steve Ballmer is back on stage..
I think I gonna stay a long time on wm6.5
ceesheim said:
I think I gonna stay a long time on wm6.5
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Click to collapse
+1 Although i will be sticked with wm 6.5.3 i really wish that we keep getting some new builds but microsoft may stop as wm 7 announced
But why are so dissapointed? I haven't heard anything about lack of multitasking or any other restriction when comparing to WM 6.5? Did I miss something?
Good times. I think the worst thing that can happen here is for purist (us) to leap to conclusions about what the new OS does and doesn't do without any valid information to support it. This OS is still 5-7 months away from hitting your ear and its not like they demo'd the device in its entirety yet. So instead of saying "No this No that..." or "oh its like the Iphone" lets wait and see. You've waited this long, no point in jumping ship till we see what this phone can really do. I own a Zune HD and I'm extremely happy with it....this OS looks similar so expect it to take full advantage of those snapdragons and Tegra chipsets. Don't sell M$ short yet...The Iphone and Android proved how its possible to run a tightly integrated App store, WM6+ showed how its possible for the end user to run its own app store (this site as well as others) its a fine line M$ has to walk with 7 and its all about pleasing the majority. Plus think of things this way; why do we need 10 different lock screen apps, 9 music player apps, 15 Contacts apps, 100 Homescreen replacement apps, 5 calendar Apps, 10000 basic Tweak apps...etc? Its because Winmo was bland, terrible white screens, slow loading, and generally outdated and plain ugly. This doesn't look to be the case now. If M$ gets it right (which its looking like they are going for gold) then you won't need it.
To prove the point...(and I hate to mention it but) the Iphone, simple UI and it just works, so now the user only has to focus on what Apps do they feel like downloading as opposed to (us) who have to think or find apps that replace basic system functions and screens. The Moral is, when you do it right the user doesn't have to focus on making it functional only making it personal. That seems to be the route M$ is taking here. We'll see when all is said and done. But lets just be objective about this whole thing...we wanted change we got it, now we gotta see if its worth it
~style~
Actually you are right in questioning that point. It hasn't been mentioned at all! Furthermore because the tiles are 'live', some form of multitasking must be present, since 'Hubs' can be added later it is safe to assume those 'Hubs' will also be capable of having updated tiles. It can just be that there is a central 'update service' where you need to register your application to and so it will udate, but it can also be there is some form of multitasking.
Also there has been completely nothing about restrictions compared to Windows Mobile. Even more than that, when at the end questions where asked Steve Ballmer answered about the ability to develop applications for it.
So without further information I see absolutely nothing that restricts this operating system more than WinMo 6.5.x.
pilgrim011 said:
But why are so dissapointed? I haven't heard anything about lack of multitasking or any other restriction when comparing to WM 6.5? Did I miss something?
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Click to collapse
You can like the interface or hate it, but nothing has been mentioned about developing applications or anything.
This is a sum of what we do know:
- New UI
- Zune Software Integrated
- Live Tiles
- 'Hubs' that connect to multiple sites
- You can develop applications for it (and maybe 3rd party 'Hubs')
Here is what we don't know:
- Nothing about multi-tasking
- Nothing about applications on the device
Here is what we expect:
- Applications from WinMo 6.5.x will not work, as mentioned 'a new set of tools for developing will be ready for our partners soon'.
jagan2 said:
+1 Although i will be sticked with wm 6.5.3 i really wish that we keep getting some new builds but microsoft may stop as wm 7 announced
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+1 although 6.5.5,
NO, of course I'm gonna try 7 series........... (BMW ;-)
style1 said:
Good times. I think the worst thing that can happen here is for purist (us) to leap to conclusions about what the new OS does and doesn't do without any valid information to support it. This OS is still 5-7 months away from hitting your ear and its not like they demo'd the device in its entirety yet. So instead of saying "No this No that..." or "oh its like the Iphone" lets wait and see. You've waited this long, no point in jumping ship till we see what this phone can really do. I own a Zune HD and I'm extremely happy with it....this OS looks similar so expect it to take full advantage of those snapdragons and Tegra chipsets. Don't sell M$ short yet...The Iphone and Android proved how its possible to run a tightly integrated App store, WM6+ showed how its possible for the end user to run its own app store (this site as well as others) its a fine line M$ has to walk with 7 and its all about pleasing the majority. Plus think of things this way; why do we need 10 different lock screen apps, 9 music player apps, 15 Contacts apps, 100 Homescreen replacement apps, 5 calendar Apps, 10000 basic Tweak apps...etc? Its because Winmo was bland, terrible white screens, slow loading, and generally outdated and plain ugly. This doesn't look to be the case now. If M$ gets it right (which its looking like they are going for gold) then you won't need it.
To prove the point...(and I hate to mention it but) the Iphone, simple UI and it just works, so now the user only has to focus on what Apps do they feel like downloading as opposed to (us) who have to think or find apps that replace basic system functions and screens. The Moral is, when you do it right the user doesn't have to focus on making it functional only making it personal. That seems to be the route M$ is taking here. We'll see when all is said and done. But lets just be objective about this whole thing...we wanted change we got it, now we gotta see if its worth it
~style~
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this sounds so iphonish! Of course we WANT to change it even if it's already working properly. if I want a simply but working UI then I can switch back to my old Nokia phone with a proprietary UI on which you can't even change colors.....
Sure MS need to look at the mass market and introduce a new user experience, but hopefully they still leave their OS customizeable like before (or even further)
Besides that I'm very curious about the prof./business edition of WM 7. Because business people won't need all this facebook, zune, xbox fanciness....
WM7 looks pretty nice, looking forward for the new devices. I love my ZuneHD, now with phone... Amazing
We have to wait for more info. What I heard in that presentation is that WM6.5 will be developped side by side with WM7, don't know for how long. So I can assume that WM6.5 will be the bussiness version and WM7 iPhone version. If this is the case I will stick to 6.5 too. Facebook and other social networks and what I saw in presentations are useless for me. SenseUI already integrates mails with SMS and agenda and this is all I need so far.
style1 said:
Good times. I think the worst thing that can happen here is for purist (us) to leap to conclusions about what the new OS does and doesn't do without any valid information to support it. This OS is still 5-7 months away from hitting your ear and its not like they demo'd the device in its entirety yet. So instead of saying "No this No that..." or "oh its like the Iphone" lets wait and see. You've waited this long, no point in jumping ship till we see what this phone can really do. I own a Zune HD and I'm extremely happy with it....this OS looks similar so expect it to take full advantage of those snapdragons and Tegra chipsets. Don't sell M$ short yet...The Iphone and Android proved how its possible to run a tightly integrated App store, WM6+ showed how its possible for the end user to run its own app store (this site as well as others) its a fine line M$ has to walk with 7 and its all about pleasing the majority. Plus think of things this way; why do we need 10 different lock screen apps, 9 music player apps, 15 Contacts apps, 100 Homescreen replacement apps, 5 calendar Apps, 10000 basic Tweak apps...etc? Its because Winmo was bland, terrible white screens, slow loading, and generally outdated and plain ugly. This doesn't look to be the case now. If M$ gets it right (which its looking like they are going for gold) then you won't need it.
To prove the point...(and I hate to mention it but) the Iphone, simple UI and it just works, so now the user only has to focus on what Apps do they feel like downloading as opposed to (us) who have to think or find apps that replace basic system functions and screens. The Moral is, when you do it right the user doesn't have to focus on making it functional only making it personal. That seems to be the route M$ is taking here. We'll see when all is said and done. But lets just be objective about this whole thing...we wanted change we got it, now we gotta see if its worth it
~style~
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Click to collapse
We need all of those things because each of is different. Granted you are righ that this in part to the lack of updating of WiMo but we are all individuals. Each of us have our own preference of what we want out of our devices and forums like this fufill these needs. For example, I may like the pure power of the HD2 but hate the homescreen. There are options out there like WAD, Homescreen++, andriokid amoung others. My point is that we all dont want to be in put the box that "this phone will do everything you want" becuase the fact of the matter is that can never happen. So give us power and we will take it from there.
Each and every feature of wp (Windows Phone) 7 is rocking. I was only disappointed of the lack of multitasking but after a good explaination by kilzone i can now show more love to wp 7 . Great ui now the phone will be more than for calling.
i the the day the first picture and think... "Oh no its a Zune" :-(
I hope the Professional Edition will look like a Phone.
ladies and gentleman... the Microsoft iPhone. social-centric UI for newbies, no customizations, no old appz...
holy crap
android here I come
I will apologize in advance for this will be long and random because my thoughts bounce around like that
You know I've been trying to figure it all out lately. It seems a good portion of XDA (40% according to this poll) members are liking 6.5.3 moreso than 7. OK...fine. Then we have this huge population of people (34% according to this poll that plan on switching to another mobile OS. Not to mention the slew of people still pissed and wondering if the HD2 will be forward compatible. And the ever increasing amount of people still prefer Sense UI over WP7. Its all so much to address so I just stopped posting for a while...but I wonder?!?!? Is change really that bad?
Its like people have been *****ing for months wanting M$ to give us the scoop on WP7...we have it and we're pissed. lol. lets move past all this...I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people. Why don't we use this forum for sharing information and not bashing something that not out nor is it finished...we don't have even close to half of the info about this phone yet we are judging it based upon insubstantial information.
I remember when the videos started coming out, the guy at the booth mentions that copy/paste hadn't been implemented into the OS yet...then I read on this forum that there is NO COPY/PASTE. One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...so all current users can still have all the things they love currently for the next 10 years (with microsofts string of innovation..lol.) But lets be honest lets look at 6+ as a whole:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
Blandness. This is the biggest issue. I've mentioned this before in other posts. Why is it everytime I want to accomplish anything in the OS I'm lead to an ugly white screen? Settings=ugly. SMS=ugly. Email=Ugly ANY SYSTEM MENU=UGLY. Its no wonder we all like Sense UI from HTC. Go to search and look up Contact Manager...see how many apps you get. Look up music players, lock screens, UI's etc. We got that by dozens. WHY? Now if you look at the scene currently...its because it gives us a choice to personalize, and I agree. But if you look back this was born out of a need for better rather than a need for different/personalization. Media player sucked...it was bland hard to navigate and generally a terrible experience. AC takes the best out the (Iphone) and creates it for WM (S2P)...sure it looks great but the need was much more for a BETTER player. Same can be said for S2U2 et al. HTC needed Manilla/sense to make our outdated UI look appealing/current. Everything about Sense is better than stock, Same can be said for Samsungs Touchwiz. These things were born out of necessity.
Terrible manufacturing. For all the HTC love out there, we all seem to let them get away with the fact that for the past 10 years (up until HD2) they have been giving us awesome software coupled with terrible hardware. It is a fact that we had incomplete/missing drivers and because of this alot of development was stalled or took forever to do. And image how much money HTC made off of shaving costs with shoddy manufacturing.
I won't got too indepth there but to keep it simple, M$ has those basic problems to deal with when making a new OS.
Now look at WP7, Easily top of the line spec sheet just for minimum requirements. I knew we were in for greatness when we got that bit of info. C'mon snapdragon as the minimum...awesome. This also gets rid of those Terrible manufacturing woes...so people can't just put out trash with the M$ OS on it. No more phones that crash from simple program openings. Also WVGA as the standard. No more need to build an app and then port it to other resolutions (WIN..) This coupled with the XNA/Silverlight development tolls make it possible to build for Xbox, PC, Mobile all at the same time...thats awesome and a huge win. Lastly, with Metro, there is no need for user skins on top of the UI. I know alot of you guys are newer to WM, but back in the day...I remember where the home screen was just "the homescreen"..the ugly green or blue homescreen with whatever info you needed on it (Weatherpanel FTW..anyone?) People realized how blah it was and you see where we are now. Look at Sense...its awesome because it gives you all the same info but it looks good and its faster. Metro has live tiles that give you access to EVERYTHING you need on your phone. Its not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation...HTC weather HUB anyone?
So yeah, a phone is a means of communications, a cell phone is a portable way of communication..Wp7 looks to be communication on steroids. I apologize for this extremely long message but i had to get out everything on my mind...in a place where people would read it. If you stuck it out, thank you. If you post telling me that was too long, you're absolutely right. Sorry
Good One..Well said, and I agree
devs, here do not trying to understand, if MS is closing one door, they are opening 100 doors as in the Xbox and other services can be synced among them, so this gives lot of opportunity to devs to come up with exciting creativve ideas.
Also, MS wnats to extend the scope with reaching out to all types of users and segments, and what they have showed here is the perfect thing.I am wwaiting for a review or hands on for a fully furnished and finished wp7 device.
I totally agree with you style. WM5 was a good os, but boring, Then here comes WM6.0 6.1 with touchflo. It was awesome, but the os sucked really bad, had a bunch of bugs and its just a let down. I had a htc 8125 which the phone itself was a resilient phone, but it just was sluggish with any of the OS except WM5 on it. I believe the phone couldn't exactly hold its own with the software but never the less it was slow running wm 6.5. The phone ran the os but I think windows had a bunch of problems. I am no longer using my 8125 cuz the poor thing died from a heart attack and major artery blockage from being used hard lol. I have a 8525 coming in and im planning on putting wm7 on it. Can't wait. I may be in for a let down but if I am then I still have a pretty cool phone coming to me, and it makes me look kinda cool for having it haha.
+1 good post b
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
gogol said:
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
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So true....but there will be a good amount of apps available on launch because its using the Zune software so it will be running Zune Apps...I have a few games on my Zune already...all are nice and smooth.
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
~style1~
Thank you guys for the comments, I already had my flame suit on..
Exactly i was thinking same. MS has to start from 0 ..... new os, new hw, new life.
I like the functionality of new OS but not the GUI . and i believe lot will change till final release. Still i will use wp7 if everything seems to work out.
personally i would like cab installation and customization on wp7
guess how cool it would be lil customization like Sense UI on wp7 .. or adding app by cab ....
but i think whatever wp7 will be, it will worth using.
style1 said:
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
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Click to collapse
Hardware is up to par, only the buttons are not the same.
user Xmoo (does something with testing devices) stated on a dutch forum that there are HD2's running WP7 at HTC Taiwan.
Some user here stated (from internal sources) that it is defenitely possible to run WP7. All microsoft said till this date, that the HD2 doenst have the right buttons.
Im agree totally with you on this subject. Its certainly the only way for Microsoft to capture some decent marketshare.
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
pilgrim011 said:
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
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I don' remember reading or hearing confirmation that multitasking won't be available. They clearly stated many times that some kind of multitasking will be available. We shall know everything(or almost everything) after MIX.
Stop judging unfinished OS that you don't even know. What you're saying is pure speculation.
style1 said:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
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I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
It is not specifically the OS, but the "platform" as a whole (screen size, screen type, number of buttons, processor speed, type of buttons, size of RAM, flip phone, slide phone, whatnot, etc).
And yes, it is painful to maintain a lot of builds specific for those kind of varieties.
Not to mention lack OS update because of phone operator / carrier lazyness (I bought my HTC Kaiser unlocked from HTC because I learned that T-Mobile is very slow giving update).
That's why I am glad that Microsoft is now taking control of the minimum hardware specification. Because that would be an advantage of current WM situation, especially to reduce fragmentation as much as possible.
Also the fact that Microsoft will provide OS update and hardware drivers (no more *****ing around about HTC missing drivers).
Instead of developer wandering around to "patch" their apps to work on fragmented platform, or figuring out tricks to over-come missing drivers. They can now enjoy leveraging their creativity for making consistent apps in well supported plaform (WP7).
RAMMANN said:
I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
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style1 said:
I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people.
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The problem is not just that the HD2 won't get an upgrade, it's the combination of it not getting an upgrade plus the fact that WP7 will not be backwards-compatible with Windows Moble applications. That is something almost nobody saw coming.
The effect of the non-backwards-compatibility announcement has been to completely kill off Windows Mobile as a viable platform for commercial software development. (Look at Adobe, look at Skype - there will be plenty of other developers jumping ship, most of whom probably won't make any public announcement about it).
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
style1 said:
One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
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Click to collapse
No, it's like you aren't paying attention.
There have been a number of announcements and leaks on the subject of multi-tasking, and we now have a pretty clear idea of how it will work. There can only be one foreground application. When a typical application is moved to the background, it will be suspended, but capable of being resumed from the same point when it is reactivated; it will not, however, be capable of actually doing anything while in the background. It will be possible for certain, select applications and services to actually run in the background rather than being paused, but this facility will be available only to applications developed by MS, or by their "partners" - i.e. phone manufacturers and networks.
style1 said:
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...
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Click to collapse
Yes, but no one takes that claim seriously.
Shasarak said:
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
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If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
Maybe we also forget that WM 6.5.x is brand new and just about to be launched. How many phones have you seen with a 6.5.3 stock ROM? There will still be plenty of new phones coming!
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
RAMMANN said:
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
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The point is that no one realised WP7 would be "a completely different OS" - we were all completely blindsided by that. No one expected a situation where there wouldn't be a single WM6 application capable of running on WP7. If, as everyone expected and as HTC allowed HD2 buyers to believe, WP7 had been backwards-compatible, WM6.5 would still be a viable platform for commercial software: people could keep on developing software for WM6, secure in the knowledge that it would run just as well on WP7 when that eventually came along. The lack of backwards-compatibility has killed WM6 stone cold dead as a commercial platform: no sensible commercial developer will develop for it at all, anymore, they'll skip straight to WP7 (if they even bother with a Microsoft version at all). Until the no-backwards-compatibility announcement happened, an upgrade was much less important; now, it really matters.
RAMMANN said:
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
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That's such a ridiculous analogy I hardly know where to begin.... Well, for starters, consider just how much Windows 95 software actually ran under NT - pretty much all of it did, with the only exception being games. And for those who needed gaming support, MS continued with fresh releases based on the Windows 95 development stream - 98, 98SE even ME - all of which could run virtually all NT-oriented software as well. Those releases didn't dry up until after full support for DirectX (and even improved DOS emulation) ended up in the NT line.
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
Shasarak said:
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
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Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications (yeah, we here will certainly do, but most users won't, and even most software companies won't). WM has been going along its way to oblivion in terms of market share, and, frankly, we didn't see many (if any at all) big software guys pumping investment into the platform anyway.
Apart from "big" Windows I'd guess the biggest MS-driven market is the XBox. So they chose compatibility with that "ecosystem" over the WM one. Disappointing as it is, I think that it was the right decision for MS really.
If I may address a few things...Aaron Woodman has gone on record saying that there will be multitasking on the phone. Let me just drop an excerpt:
"Among the details unveiled by him in that interview, we can count the fact that there will be multitasking in the new operating system, although previous rumors pointed otherwise. However, the approach on applications is a little different than before, as they will be included/integrated with the hubs Windows Phone OS 7 sports, and this is something that Microsoft is set to detail at MIX10. The main idea, however, is that apps will be there, and that they will be selected so as to be in line with the new user experience the company is trying to promote."
So maybe I as well as microsoft have NO IDEA WHAT MULTITASKING IS. I'm not trying to make opinions and substantiate them with evidence...I'm looking at the evidence and drawing a conclusion from it. M$ says there will be multitasking in their platform then I have to conclude that there will be multitasking even if I haven't personally seen the way it will be handled on a bigger scale. Trying to prove otherwise without any info is just reckless. Now of course it doesn't seem that they are multitasking in the traditional way and I am curious to see exactly how the system is multitasking but if I may speculate I think it deals with the back button. It seems everytime you switch tasks you press the home button then go into your hub of what you are going to do...once you finish you press the home button and go into the next task...since we know the back button doesn't lead to the Homescreen, maybe the back button leads through all the previous tasks in the order that you went through them. That would be simple and unobtrusive. Thats just my speculation based upon the videos I've seen so far...prove me wrong please.
Also about being blindside you're right it was a shock to most. I think M$ has gone on record saying they will still support WM as WPclassic(WPC) so i don't think you guys have just been outright abandoned...but. I wonder, with all the issues that you are labelling about WP7 but still complaining that the HD2 wont be able to upgrade to it, which side of the fence do you really sit on. You can't really be on both sides. But while I'm being prudent HTC has gone on record many times saying the HD2 will be upgradable to WP7, M$ has said that it doesn't plan on upgrading the device. They site the three button crap as a reason but interestingly enough Tony Wilkinson, Microsoft Australia's Business Operations Director, has said that "there are some hardware components that the HD doesn't have." Could this be why the HD2 coming to Tmoble seems to be a beefier version? We don't know but its always fun to speculate. Since M$ hasn't offically released a FULL spec list we have no idea but we will know at MIX10. Hell maybe M$ has no plan on upgrading HD2 but they are leaving it solely up to the manufactures to deliver on that which is why there are 2 conflicting views coming from HTC and M$...who knows right now. But based on the facts these are likely conclusions.
I won't bother with any other thing said because its more off topic..I don't really care whether people think that people will stop developing on 6.5.X just because WP7 is released... they obviously underestimate this site. Hell what more do people need?
~style~
vangrieg said:
Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications
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HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
Shasarak said:
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
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Some of them will, some won't. I am an HD2 user and I don't care, I don't want to own it for another year anyway, I'd happily exchange it right now if there were something better. I'm sure most HD2 users don't even know what OS their device is running (I know my wife wouldn't know). So we're talking about a few hundred thousand users max. And that's just the user side. A commercial WM developer network is pretty much non-existent right now, apart from SPB, Resco and a couple other small firms.
Well done. I completely agree. I'm looking forward to it. Most users are just bitter and don't want change. I think the main worry with the cooks or other users is that is that it won't offer the amount of customization of 6.5 and below, but they fail to forget that the Iphone is boring until you jailbreak, in the process opening up many possibilities. I think the same will be said for WP7S
I know I'm going to get my head bitten off for saying this, but in some ways I'm actually not that big a fan of HTC's phones. They're often ridiculously slow to incorporate new tech (such as faster CPUs). They have a very long track-record of failing to include adequate drivers on their phones, so that even when the hardware is respectable, the software cannot take advantage of it. They fail to include important software elements (compare, for example, the video playing applications on HTC phones with what you get on high-end Toshiba or Samsung devices). And they also have a very tiresome philosophy of treating their own products like feature-phones; if you grumble about the fact that some piece of third party software doesn't work properly on an HTC phone, they don't care - not even when the reason it doesn't work is because HTC has failed to include some important drivers; as far as HTC is concerned, any non-HTC software installed on your phone is not their problem, and they'd be happier if you didn't install 3rd party software on it at all. And (compared to Nokia, Samsung, or Sony Ericsson) the cameras are terrible!
And yet, I used to own a Touch Pro2, and I now own an HD2. Why? Because there are three very important things that HTC phones do have going for them.
1) They sometimes have exceptional hardware - not in terms of the internals (like the CPU and GPU), but in terms of the device form factor. The Touch Pro2 has the nicest hardware keyboard I've ever seen on a phone, for example; the HD2 has the nicest screen I've seen on a phone.
2) They do some interesting things with user-interface customisations. The most obvious example of this is Sense UI; but this also includes things like adding pinch-to-zoom support on the HD2.
3) The single biggest advantage HTC phones have, of course, is this forum. There are some very, very smart people here, and the work they produce can transform an HTC phone from mediocre into remarkable.
But... what's going to happen in the WP7S world? Innovative form factors will be a lot harder to achieve, partly because the platform is so locked down, but also because the minimum requirements are set so high. Large-scale customisations of the GUI will also be banned, so HTC WP7S phones can't have Sense UI on them any more. And as for this forum... well, how many keen WM6.x developers around here are likely to become WP7S developers? It seems like most of them are either planning to jump ship to Android, or get out of the free tweaks and utilities game and start selling apps for money through the WP7S marketplace. It's not at all clear that it will even be possible to flash custom ROMs onto a WP7S phone; hell, we may not even be able to edit the registry, for all we know; certainly there will no more .cab installs. So how much of a contribution will this forum be able to make to WP7S devices?
So, while things like the lack of drivers will hopefully no longer be an issue on WP7S phones from HTC (HTC will have no choice but to include them, and MS will write them, so there won't be so much of a problem with Qualcomm being difficult), it is hard to see what features those WP7S HTC devices will have which makes them stand out from the crowd in any meaningful way.
What do you think?
Shasarak said:
I know I'm going to get my head bitten off for saying this, but in some ways I'm actually not that big a fan of HTC's phones. They're often ridiculously slow to incorporate new tech (such as faster CPUs). They have a very long track-record of failing to include adequate drivers on their phones, so that even when the hardware is respectable, the software cannot take advantage of it. They fail to include important software elements (compare, for example, the video playing applications on HTC phones with what you get on high-end Toshiba or Samsung devices). And they also have a very tiresome philosophy of treating their own products like feature-phones; if you grumble about the fact that some piece of third party software doesn't work properly on an HTC phone, they don't care - not even when the reason it doesn't work is because HTC has failed to include some important drivers; as far as HTC is concerned, any non-HTC software installed on your phone is not their problem, and they'd be happier if you didn't install 3rd party software on it at all. And (compared to Nokia, Samsung, or Sony Ericsson) the cameras are terrible!
And yet, I used to own a Touch Pro2, and I now own an HD2. Why? Because there are three very important things that HTC phones do have going for them.
1) They sometimes have exceptional hardware - not in terms of the internals (like the CPU and GPU), but in terms of the device form factor. The Touch Pro2 has the nicest hardware keyboard I've ever seen on a phone, for example; the HD2 has the nicest screen I've seen on a phone.
2) They do some interesting things with user-interface customisations. The most obvious example of this is Sense UI; but this also includes things like adding pinch-to-zoom support on the HD2.
3) The single biggest advantage HTC phones have, of course, is this forum. There are some very, very smart people here, and the work they produce can transform an HTC phone from mediocre into remarkable.
But... what's going to happen in the WP7S world? Innovative form factors will be a lot harder to achieve, partly because the platform is so locked down, but also because the minimum requirements are set so high. Large-scale customisations of the GUI will also be banned, so HTC WP7S phones can't have Sense UI on them any more. And as for this forum... well, how many keen WM6.x developers around here are likely to become WP7S developers? It seems like most of them are either planning to jump ship to Android, or get out of the free tweaks and utilities game and start selling apps for money through the WP7S marketplace. It's not at all clear that it will even be possible to flash custom ROMs onto a WP7S phone; hell, we may not even be able to edit the registry, for all we know; certainly there will no more .cab installs. So how much of a contribution will this forum be able to make to WP7S devices?
So, while things like the lack of drivers will hopefully no longer be an issue on WP7S phones from HTC (HTC will have no choice but to include them, and MS will write them, so there won't be so much of a problem with Qualcomm being difficult), it is hard to see what features those WP7S HTC devices will have which makes them stand out from the crowd in any meaningful way.
What do you think?
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i think htc will depend on sales only on android devices as it is still customizable (which htc is special at and that differes it from other devices ) but when going to wp7 no thing will specialize htc phones so no big sales like before
the only thing they can do is use the most highest specs in the phone to stand out but samsung seems to pull out high spec'ed phones before most of companies.
i was thinking how screwed spb is as they have a lot of software that they can use on wm (shell, keyboard etc) and i know they are making the shell on android but why would someone with android and to spend $30 on a widget based shell when they already have one.
IIRC, SPB was listed as one of the 'key partners' for WP7S, so they must have something cooking!
HTC is a HARDWARE company. When did TouchFlo first come out? With the release of the Touch Diamond right? Not all that long ago (late 2007). I always saw TouchFlo as a "necessary evil" and that HTC was just polishing a turd. They got really good at it and the more recent Sense products are pretty darn good but it's still an adulteration of their core business. They'll continue to exist as a HARDWARE company and they will still do some value-add software development likely through a Sense application that integrates weather, twitter, Footprints, etc.
It'll be interesting to see what SPB comes out with for WP7. Maybe they can still make some kinda shell it just can't be set up to over take the start menu and has to be launched each time you start the device. Of course they would probably need some priveledged API's to do anything worth doing.
Also, I don't just love HTC because of Manilla. I've had HTC devices before manilla ever came out. I just love the design of there hardware. That's what really drives me. Any device can have UI's put on it but you can't just change the design by installing a cab.
Great question here. I agree that despite excellent form factors, nice materials and very decent build quality, HTC failed in many areas of making great devices, and the problem was primarily with software. Even Manila, which I enjoy greatly, is an example of how not to build interfaces - 3000 lua files, no customization, no APIs to hook other services or programs, it is all mediocre stuff on the inside. Drivers have caused many frustrations over the years, they constantly failed to document any APIs they used, and always refused to take into account complaints and requests, repeating their "this is not an entertainment/gaming/whatever device" mantras.
With a software company taking charge of software, I think HTC devices will get much better. So I'm rather optimistic with regard to my possible future use of HTC products.
However, they do lose ability to differentiate themselves from other OEMs with WP7, and their ambitions to become a large cell phone manufacturer in the same league with Nokia & Co. now look a bit too optimistic. So yeah, they may go through some difficult times in search of self-identification.
I just think HTC will continue making phones with WM6.5 and Android. There is no reason why would HTC use WP7 on their phones.
ZaxXx said:
I just think HTC will continue making phones with WM6.5 and Android. There is no reason why would HTC use WP7 on their phones.
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Other than the fact that Microsoft has announced that HTC is one of its major partners on the WP7S project, you mean?
First of all, microsoft dont care about their costumers, we can see that cos theiy did sayd silly excuses about how their new OS wont implement cos some lack of buttons, after that cos lack of some small sume of memory ( ROM ), and they expect from us, to trow into the garbage machines what we did pay 600 eu and to get new i guess with win7 and waste another 600 eu. That is the way how they are working. MONEY , and screw the rest
I'm surprised no one thinks MS won't give a damn if all the WM OEM's give them the finger, they will just contract the manufacture of the hardware out to one of the said OEM's to produce "microsofts" design and specs.......microsoft will make more money, the OEM's like HTC...less, this is imo what the whole point of what they're doing is.....they want total control and a cut of every pie, OS, software, downloadable content, and hardware.....there's not enough money in only producing OS software, and I suspect a point of annoyance at money others make off their platform.
They will FLOURISH :
-geeks like us ( small proportion of marketplace ) will not buy their stuff
-normal people ( huge proportion of marketplace ) will buy their "user-friendly" WP7 stuff
HUGE PROFIT !
ZaxXx said:
I just think HTC will continue making phones with WM6.5 and Android. There is no reason why would HTC use WP7 on their phones.
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Click to collapse
just a thought and suspicion HTC will not continue developing devices with wm6.5 for long.
The last official rom updates for Diamond 2 and touch pro2 have sence 2.5. Why? because HTC sees no reason to continue development of sense? so lets just give it all for everyone. Now software vice there is no real differance between a Diamond 2 and HD2 only a compass, footprints and business card reader.
so software vice its like iPhone 3G and 3GS
so it looks like we are on the beta max phone right now
You get aids when you sleep with too many girlfriends and their mom too!
chiks19018 said:
You get aids when you sleep with too many girlfriends and their mom too!
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Sometimes, innocent babies get AIDS from their drug addicted parents. We can't seem to comprehend the weird actions of the parents in producing An Intelligence Deficiency System (AIDS) --- a mobile phone OS that lacks so many basic essential features; we might speculate the parents were in psychedelic high, sharing dirty needles, and spread AIDS to each other. The babies (innocent young developers) will mostly likely get AIDS. Some of them who have just learn how to talk have gone so far as to say AIDS is good for the world. The world with AIDS will make a better ecosystem -- it will be skinnier for sure. Many innocent victims (consumers) will likely be infected by the AIDS. It is a potential outbreak, but the kind doctors (xda-developers) can do nothing to help, they are being denied the essential tools to perform their duties. So the whole healing process will have to be left to shamans or witches with divine powers (certain developers with access to native herbal medicines called c++); and we all have to live in the dark age ... wait a minute, I am seeing all these from a distant droid land; phew! I am saved by an open source robot , as the welfare of our droid land seems to be progressing toward the positive territory, I really feel sorry for those who are still in the doom land; with supreme leaders getting more and more paranoids. I hope some one sane enough will stop the supreme leaders if they ever command all their followers to commit mass suicide; such as by destroying the only platform they are all still standing on... an old but useful platform we all love; where everything is colorful and free, the one where the doctors are provided tools to cure any weakness or illness.
The end result:
Only the very strong will survive!
chiks19018 said:
You get aids when you sleep with too many girlfriends and their mom too!
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I think I speak for nearly everyone when I say: what in God's name are you talking about?
Shasarak said:
I think I speak for nearly everyone when I say: what in God's name are you talking about?
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I am talking about HTC, sleeping with MS and then Google.
Now it got aids in form of Apple lawsuit and probably neglect from MS for the new WP7.
You're all acting as if HTC didn't know this was coming. Just because Microsoft kept every single detail about WP7 secret from the public doesn't mean they kept it secret from their hardware partners. HTC has known what was coming for months, if not years.
chiks19018 said:
You get aids when you sleep with too many girlfriends and their mom too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not if you use a condom.
This thread should not be about how WP7 should catch up with the competition but how WP7 should be ITSELF and raise the bar/level on its own.
I looked on the various ideas from developers (i.e. the lockscreen being filled with some Android-ish widgets or infos) and I basically don't personally like the idea or where this seems to be going.
I LOVE WP7 , I love it for finally having something fresh and fast after years and years of icons-mania, custom ROMs,PC-tweakage-and-problems-ported-to-phones similarities. I love it so much that I personally do not give a damn about missing some features right now which are to be implemented soon enough. (although I RESPECT other's opinion)
The thing is that right now there is no such thing as WP7 in terms of UI on the market, NOTHING! And this is the OS' biggest strentgh right now. The reason I bought this phone (HD7) is for finally getting rid off all those geeky stuff. I love how I can see a clean wallpaper with a minimalistic basic notification below and a huge date. It's just what you need , it's clean , it's modern, it's how an OS in (almost) 2011 should be. But I am not talking here only about esthetics or eye-candy, I am talking about how well information is being provided to the user, how professional is done rather than some active wallpaper which basically has no purpose rather than a silly childish brag and a battery drainer.
I want WP7 to stay that way, I don't want to become an Android wannabe.
IMO I find Android a rather weak UI. I mean we are almost hitting 2.3 but has there been any serious major update? Nada.
So, the point of this topic would be about developers being able to help raise this new standard.It's about perception, it's basically about the purpose of the phone. Phones should help people comunicate. I keep seeing news in this current Smartphone world about hardware upgrades and basically nothing else. Originality has been in the last years left behind.
This is where I think Microsoft simply nailed it.The OS is not perfect, it's not perfect because it doesn't satisfy some needs, but people should think of what they really need NOT what they saw at other OS device and want this or that back.I can see why Steve Ballmer said WP7 will be one of MS' biggest succeses and I can see why an OS like this is not yet polished and I can see that it needed a little bit more time to develop properly but obviously they simply couldn't afford another delay. It's just something new !
I hope mods don't close this thread because as I initially stated this is not about what WP7 does or does not, it's about what WP7 is and can be or what it can change.
I agree. I'm not missing all the icons all over the home page, having to retheme them everytime I flashed a ROM. At the time I liked doing it, but now I'm just enjoying using the phone.
I think there are a couple of things microsoft needs to add, like outlook support and vpn so business users can jump on board. I think we will see pretty frequent updates in the beginning and I'm excited by where wp7 is going.
I share your love for the Metro UI; I look the whole minimal look. But I hope you can appreciate this look is not for everyone. So the UI being the greatest selling point for you may be the greatest downfall for someone else.
There are two approaches companies can take in the mobile OS war:
1. Highly customizable OS that can look and behave however you want it.
2. Highly restrictive OS that will look and behave how they expect it to.
The pros with the first is that kind of OS will be able to appeal to the masses. The cons are that it is a more complicated OS that may have stability and support issues.
The second is usually the exact opposite.
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.
I completely agree.
After couple years of tweaking my PPC 6700, TP, TPII and HD2, changing ROMs every week, using Sashimi to restore my settings, and lately trying almost every Android build available on my HD2, I have to say that the first days with my HD7 were boring. No many post in XDA, most of them complains about the missing features, but nothing really exiting. Now, I do miss some features but my experience with this phone is great. Everything works, and does it really fast. I had to restart the phone only once in more than 2 weeks and it was just because I had visual voice mail in the HD2 and Tmobile had to change my setting in their end and they recommended that I restarted the phone.
Everything is smooth, everything work , I spend more time in the market now and less in XDA, I even get better battery live because I’m not using the phone that much trying to see what else I can tweak, I can’t check current widget every once in a while to see how my battery is doing and I can’t or I don’t have to do a lot of thing to improve my experience with the phone because it is out of the box by far better than any other phone I ever owned.
nicksti said:
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.
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Metro UI will definitely be a seller as developers perfect their implementation and understanding of how to work in it for optimal user experience.
Developers should spend 1-2 hours flipping around in zune to see how they can create a nice app that doesn't look like someone copy and pasted the demo code
To be honest...
The looks and the flashy animations matter very little to me.
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Allow me to stream music to my car via bluetooth
- Allow me to print to my wifi enabled network printer
- Allow me to sideload files into applications (Important!)
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
- Allow me to heavily customize it
I'm not asking for a lot really
I mean honestly... PDA's have been around for at least 10 years already... I feel like MS have just pushed their platform back to the dark ages.
I want to see interconnectivity and flexibility!
I agree with everyone above I'd also like to see multitask and everything else people want BUT I want to have it in the WP7 way , not how we've seen it so far.
Microsoft needs to find a balance between having a "locked down OS" and a highly-customizable one. If a dump OS means a higher quality control and a brilliantly fast UI then I personally take it, that doesn't mean everyone likes it.
Apple really did manage to make a milestone in mobile phones with the iPhone but they somehow stopped (maybe due to succes) and now we have as I said an icon-mania based OS or an app-centric one. I think Apple could have done a lot more (at least after 3GS) and deliver a twist once more.
On the other hand, Microsoft learned (not copied) the Apple recipe and understood that less is more and simple things are more likely to atract customers although this doesn't mean it will also satisfy the more advanced users yet they can still do it ! If they can make it spot on with the first update things can only improve to an already refreshing and solid OS.
What's so wrong about being app centric anyway? I like the fact that my phone is the most versatile multi-tool I own. A device that can achieve a near infinite number of tasks that fits neatly in my pocket. To me, apps are the real draw for having a smartphone.
The number of apps is rising heavily, games ehh games take a little longer to develop. This is because Silverlight and XNA and Visual Studio in general is such a pleasure to use. When devs do something for the platform, 99% will definitely stay because they wouldn't want to go back to horrible Objective-C. So we're going to start seeing the games market sway to WP7.
The future of apps and games in the WP7 Marketplace is going to be crazy
I will just say something obvious,
but in a broader image MS will have a great great advantage
retaining it's great UI and whole concept/paradigm turned to "average" customer
but adding missing power features underneath.
That is also what makes Windows7 so great for instance.
And users will be more conscious no doubt.
AceofSpades25 said:
To be honest...
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!
I agree with the OP and no I don't want the WP7 to become anything like the WM 6.5. Personally I don't even care for the multi-tasking but I know a lot of people want it so I would hope that MS does it in a way that doesn't hamper the speed and smoothness of the WP7 UI as in smart multi-tasking and not like my previous android which always had multiple apps in the background.
Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!
Honestly, I think the reason for WP7 being released "prematurely" as put by some, is entirely business oriented. They just wanted to get on the consumer's mindset BEFORE the year ends, and make some money along the way. In a perfect world, WP7 would have come out in Q2 2011 with all the missing features.
I am loving my Optimus 7 though...and the biggest missing features for me are multitasking or at least some degree of backgrounding, and USB mass storage/file manager access, although the latter can be solved to some degree with a simply registry hack on the computer it is connected to. Also, the fact that I cannot simply load up any word or excel file I want without a sharepoint account is pretty f--ing stupid. Same thing with pdfs...
I do not hate Zune, as some do, and I find it to be quite the fast little program, when compared to something like iTunes. I just wish Microsoft did not continuously ignore CANADA, and omit all the features from its services when it came to a Canadian Live Account ( I am too tied into my live account to make a new one with an American locale, I use it for my msdn account, zune, xbox live, hotmail, and dreamspark account, so switching is much less an option to me ).
Overall, I will stick with my phone until April/May, and if it hasn't drastically improved by then, I will be switching to something better, possibly.
From the USA perspective, the launch of WP7 was done right before what is expected to be a huge holiday sales season. I just saw a news story today where they are expecting retails sales to be the best in many years. Black Friday is tomorrow and Cyber Monday is in a few days. It's competitors have nothing exciting going on now. Meanwhile, Microsoft launches Kinect and WP7, both integrated with their successful Xbox. If things go their way, this may go down as the season of Microsoft. I don't know if it will work, but I bought a WP7 phone and we are talking about getting Kinect for the kids . So yes, it was a business move, and probably a good one, to launch WP7 when they did. No, it doesn't have all the features we would like... but with over 1 billion USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.
dez93_2000 said:
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same way... I would rather have an Android, but I love developing for WP7. Fortunately, I will be getting a WP7 device through work, so the decision is out of my hands. The only thing I can do now is to keep on at Microsoft about removing the restrictions on the platform.
dez93_2000 said:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully subscribe to the points above.
I hate to be tied to a PC and to Zune. It has always been the reason I avoided the iPhone... And now it seems it's coming to WP7 I think it's the wrong way.
bmazloum said:
Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great points. Definitely with the gaming. Some type of suspended gaming answer text then back to gaming.
Couldn't agree more with the comments. I love tech (I'm sure everyone on here does!), and Android was great for a while - something a little different, very customisable etc...but I love the simplicity of WP7, it has focus, and that focus is the user.
Of course there is plenty they could and should add, but this is V1 and I think we forget that too often. For an OS just out the door, it's fantastically polished, and as long as they stick to their promise to provide regular updates, and even more importantly, make sure that they only enhance the phone and don't start to break features or affect performance, then they have a real winner on their hands.
smuook said:
In USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly ! People somehow got used to think that if it's not iPhone like fame then a certain device is not succesfull. Being so much money in this even if they like it or not they will have to make it better and better (not that for me is bad in any way). I had have mine for a while already and I didn't think for 1 second going back to other OS.
I constantly read posts about "WP7 is so behind in features," yet I don't really see what's missing.
NoDo brought copy and paste, and managed to implement it in quite a functional way.
Mango is bringing a more developed task switcher and background agents. The freedom of Android isn't there, but the multitasking/dehydration implementation is at least as functional as that of iOS.
Mango wasn't originally going to support it, but ICS exists within Mango.
Where are the major missing features, exactly? The browser doesn't support Flash? Neither does iOS. Microsoft and Apple seem to want Flash to die, and Google is probably covertly on board with that.
Xbox Live integration works just as I'd expect it to. Office Mobile is perfectly functional.
Skype isn't available yet, but will ultimately exist in the form of a highly-integrated app. IM+ definitely is buggy at the moment, so WP7 needs to catch up for users of most IM clients.
Where's the big problem in WP7? It was certainly behind upon its release, but now it seems close to feature parity with the two major platforms.
I too don't understand where the THIS IS AWFUL posts come from. But there are definitely limitations. But look, there will be with any platform.
I personally want avi support, DLNA (I have Play To, but it only works with W7 desktop), HDMI out, and tethering. I'm not sure if Bell will support the tethering yet, but I hope they do.
I came from Windows Mobile, so a platform that -just works- is the most important feature to me. Wp7 owns in this category. My wife's iPhone locks up about once a week. Her display looks bland and old. I find wp7 just sleek and beautiful and it works. All the time. Exactly like it should.
As for others, who knows. The general public has never exactly been a beacon of intelligence.
pantsaregood said:
I constantly read posts about "WP7 is so behind in features," yet I don't really see what's missing.
NoDo brought copy and paste, and managed to implement it in quite a functional way.
Mango is bringing a more developed task switcher and background agents. The freedom of Android isn't there, but the multitasking/dehydration implementation is at least as functional as that of iOS.
Mango wasn't originally going to support it, but ICS exists within Mango.
Where are the major missing features, exactly? The browser doesn't support Flash? Neither does iOS. Microsoft and Apple seem to want Flash to die, and Google is probably covertly on board with that.
Xbox Live integration works just as I'd expect it to. Office Mobile is perfectly functional.
Skype isn't available yet, but will ultimately exist in the form of a highly-integrated app. IM+ definitely is buggy at the moment, so WP7 needs to catch up for users of most IM clients.
Where's the big problem in WP7? It was certainly behind upon its release, but now it seems close to feature parity with the two major platforms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well...in fact there were only a handful of features missing that I expect in a smartphone. The most used is turn by turn voice guided navigation. And I expected the Bing search to provide that function when I bought my HD7 on launch day.
You should have seen my reaction when I figured out, after searching and searching for the Bing nav, it actually didn't have it. I was dumbfounded. I literally believed MS was trying to pull a fast one with WP7. It actually took me a long time before I would believe MS didn't include the Bing nav they had in WinMo 6.5.
Beyond that mind boggling event, I knew about pretty much the rest of the common stuff that was missing. But I believed MS would quickly implement those features. That's what everyone on here and throughout the media world was saying.
WP7 has actually proven to be the exact opposite of what it was suppose to be.
Turn by Turn in Mango is annoying, given it expects you to tap after every direction, but I don't understand how it is a valid complaint.
"There's an app for that" is always a valid fix for Android and iOS. Why is it that, when applied to WP7, that it makes the platform horrible?
iphone & android had the same problem when they first launched...took them a few years for the OS to mature.
WP7 is only about a yr old....practically still a baby and it almost matured to the level of the aging droid & iphone. Give it time...it will be on par or surpass them.
I can see four major problems why a lot of the general public will pass up on WP7
1. there aren't enough apps
2. apps are pricey
3. mango still isn't here
4. hardware is just not on the same level as the android flagships (and may not be with the upcoming iPhone)
for 1-3, you could argue that these things will get better but how reasonable is it to ask your customer who wants a phone now to buy something incomplete and wait for the updates that will eventually come?
and while WP7 runs really well on last gen hardware, many people just want what's best.. best processor, best screen without really understanding what the benefits are..
For me personally, I love WP7 but really don't like the lack of flash support (can't watch iPlayer which you can on iOS and Android) and the fact that navigation is pretty useless.
pantsaregood said:
Turn by Turn in Mango is annoying, given it expects you to tap after every direction, but I don't understand how it is a valid complaint.
"There's an app for that" is always a valid fix for Android and iOS. Why is it that, when applied to WP7, that it makes the platform horrible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically, for myself...and a lot of others as well...when you expect something about a product and it doesn't turn out, it pisses us off.
I and many others who kept up with the media presentation of WP7 news long before WP7 was launched expected it to be MS's "iPhone". What that means is, MS would release a mobile OS that was as good and reliable as iOS and MS would take full and complete control of it for updating and implementation...just like Apple with their iPhone. And this is incredibly significant because it was understood and rationalized that this would alleviate all of the updating issues with all handsets on all carriers. MS would set the specs for the handset makers to strictly adhere to and MS would develop all of the software and updates for all of those handsets.
The fact that the launch phones are identical in "system" hardware further reinforced the understanding that MS would be controlling WP7 exclusively. I and others believed it. And this is what was flooding the media sites.
Everything that was believed about WP7 in the beginning has turned out to be false in reality. MS dared to release a featureless smartphone and then completely backtracked on all it was understood they would do with it. Many, many were burned by MS. I don't expect a damn thing from MS till I see it in reality. I felt like MS was loaded with a bunch of arrogant, lying, lazy bums who would say anything to get what they wanted.
I personally think that the only place Windows Phone is really behind is hardware. For the average user, the software is there as of Mango, but there are so many better hardware choices out there, that no matter how good the software is, it fails to lure in customers.
IMO I think that the main problem is that WP currently misses some simple features, that are included in almost 80% of "dumb" phones.
For example, there is no way to set a custom ringtone for calls/sms (i'm talking about official releases, and by that i mean NoDo), no way to add new accent colors for live tiles, only 2 themes (dark/light), wallpaper only available on lock screen, no save contact to sim card, no bluetooth file transfer, etc.
I think that those things are producing a lot of discomfort for some users, who previously had some other smartphone (iOS, Android...) and therefore they get annoyed when using WP7 device. As it is a new platform, these things will be surely dealt with in future and I think that's nothing to worry about. After all, think this way. If MS wants WP7 to survive on the market, they have to step up to Android and iOS in any way possible and as soon as possible.
I hope that some of those things will not be anymore on to-do list when Mango comes out! So, let's see what Mango has to offer!
MartyLK said:
WP7 has actually proven to be the exact opposite of what it was suppose to be.
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Click to collapse
I'm pretty certain MS didn't make it this way on accident. It was very intentional.
toza said:
IMO I think that the main problem is that WP currently misses some simple features, that are included in almost 80% of "dumb" phones. )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree! The first thing people notice when given my phone to play with are the few accent colors to choose from. For me personally, only 3 of them even come into consideration, but I can live with that...What really annoys me is the missing compass-integration into bing maps, even android 1.6 had that as I remember. Every time when I'm in cologne and get lost once again, I have to check the direction I'm actually heading to (by usually walking the wrong way).
Damnzel said:
I agree! The first thing people notice when given my phone to play with are the few accent colors to choose from...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes! That is what I'm talking about. Everyone first asks about simple things when they tryout the phone. To be more precise, everyone expects from a ~200$ phone to have those simple things integrated by default, and when they try WP, the first thing they notice is that those features are missing, and then come the problems.
No advance feature can "shine" when the simple ones are missing
There used to be a saying: "Details make great things, but they can also destroy them."
toza said:
Yes! That is what I'm talking about. Everyone first asks about simple things when they tryout the phone. To be more precise, everyone expects from a ~200$ phone to have those simple things integrated by default, and when they try WP, the first thing they notice is that those features are missing, and then come the problems.
No advance feature can "shine" when the simple ones are missing
There used to be a saying: "Details make great things, but they can also destroy them."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
Nobody would expect a modern car to be without an air conditioner or or any of the other common features. Anyone buying a smartphone these days expects the smartphone maker to compete with the other companies who are selling their smartphones filled to the brim with features. For a company to even dare to introduce a smartphone that is ass-backwards on features (has none of the common ones), is a slap in the face of everyone. For that company to expect no complaints is like burying their heads in the sand and shunning reality.
you can get the accent color if you hack it...you know like most of the android users do to their phone.
I don't know how many times it's been stated that the TBT GPS is the way it is because of Licensing issues. Yeah it sucks, get over it. Why did Bing Nav for WinMo have it? MS must of had the license to use it, but it has since expired. Read up on how licensing works. Also, 3rd party apps count too & they exist. Like has been said, how come it's such a big deal for WP7, but with iOS/Android, "there's an app for that" is okay? Enough with this double standard. As for customizing, it's possible with "hacking." BTW, far more do it than XDA'er like to admit, a lot more. It's pretty commonplace. Most people, if they can't figure it out on their own will get a techy friend to do it for them. BTW, there's 4+ Mil XDA members. That's a pretty large # of hackers/lurkers/etc. looking for a way to tweak their devices nevermind the "guests" that never join or all the other sites. Ok, done & out...
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
I don't know how many times it's been stated that the TBT GPS is the way it is because of Licensing issues. Yeah it sucks, get over it. Why did Bing Nav for WinMo have it? MS must of had the license to use it, but it has since expired. Read up on how licensing works. Also, 3rd party apps count too & they exist. Like has been said, how come it's such a big deal for WP7, but with iOS/Android, "there's an app for that" is okay? Enough with this double standard. As for customizing, it's possible with "hacking." BTW, far more do it than XDA'er like to admit, a lot more. It's pretty commonplace. Most people, if they can't figure it out on their own will get a techy friend to do it for them. BTW, there's 4+ Mil XDA members. That's a pretty large # of hackers/lurkers/etc. looking for a way to tweak their devices nevermind the "guests" that never join or all the other sites. Ok, done & out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 didn't have turn by turn voice nav when it was released because WP7 couldn't do turn by turn voice nav. It wasn't capable.
Who exactly would MS get their Bing nav license from?
MartyLK said:
WP7 didn't have turn by turn voice nav when it was released because WP7 couldn't do turn by turn voice nav. It wasn't capable.
Who exactly would MS get their Bing nav license from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It did, Garmin Streetpilot was/is available in NoDo. There were/are various other marketplace apps for TBT Navigation. "There's an app for that," enough said.
Who, no clue, but many have stated this in multiple threads. I'll look into this more later. Admittedly I am going by what has been said, so I will investigate this on my own & see what I can find.
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
It did, Garmin Streetpilot was/is available in NoDo. There were/are various other marketplace apps for TBT Navigation. "There's an app for that," enough said.
Who, no clue, but many have stated this in multiple threads. I'll look into this more later. Admittedly I am going by what has been said, so I will investigate this on my own & see what I can find.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When was NoDo released?
What's missing?
Users , plus the other stuff they mentioned.
sure haven't said:
I too don't understand where the THIS IS AWFUL posts come from. But there are definitely limitations. But look, there will be with any platform.
I personally want avi support, DLNA (I have Play To, but it only works with W7 desktop), HDMI out, and tethering. I'm not sure if Bell will support the tethering yet, but I hope they do.
I came from Windows Mobile, so a platform that -just works- is the most important feature to me. Wp7 owns in this category. My wife's iPhone locks up about once a week. Her display looks bland and old. I find wp7 just sleek and beautiful and it works. All the time. Exactly like it should.
As for others, who knows. The general public has never exactly been a beacon of intelligence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad someone else notices how much iPhones lock up. They have a lot of problems that seem to go unnoticed. Unresponsive apps, random reboots, lag, etc.