Related
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=5475&tag=content;col1
As HD2 owner I am dissapointed.
Again!!
But its just a spokeperson.. so we can't track the source... wich makes it a rumor..
Who cares what someone says at microsoft......they keep saying "No No No" like Amy winehouse....... HD2 can support it with EASE.
The reason why they say "No" is that microsoft has promised manufactuers that NEW OS equals Great Sales.....extacly how they did with the VISTA series !!!
What ever I say to microsoft......they like it or not....WE WILL get WP7S on out HD2 phones.....I love XDA !
One of the main reasons I got the HD2 was that I thought it would be upgradeable... I'm still hoping that it'll happen, one way or another.
I'm passing on the HD2 just beacuse of this reason I got my TP2 and when the HD2 came out I said I would just wait to see what WM7 is going to look like before I upgrade. I'm glad I waited. Guess you guys should have done the same. No one nows if porting to the HD2 will be possible yet so I wouldn't get too excited.
vardig said:
The reason why they say "No" is that microsoft has promised manufactuers that NEW OS equals Great Sales.....extacly how they did with the VISTA series !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Existing hardware on desktops is upgradeable and Microsoft even gave free updates for systems purchased within the months leading up to release.
It's funny how they still leave the door slightly open with their statement.
The first device that has WP7 on it (as long as it doesn't suck) I'll be buying. My Touch Pro is due for retirement.
if you have read the article you will clearly see that the Microsoft spokesperson said that they currently dont have plans to update the HD2...key word being currently. but WP7 wont be out until around christmas....so curruntly they may not have have an update, but by release time they might. sometimes u have to read in between the lines...its something they are deffinatley working on, because if they werent, they could just give a straight answer instead of beating around the bush.
as a owner of an hd2 I would he dissapointed but I am really positive about this for simple reasons. i may be wrong about this but still ill say my opinion .
as a lot of ppl have seen on YouTube there is a video of someone from Adobe with hd2 with flash 10.1 and a (new kind of IE) which according to me is available on wp7s (according to MS a renewed browser with pinch to zoom )
BTW the home button of hd2 can somehow be reprogramed as the search button.
ok on YouTube you see the start menu but you don't see him opening the browser.
as i said I may be wrong but its my opinion.
Guerrilla Milli said:
the Microsoft spokesperson said that they currently dont have plans to update the HD2...key word being currently
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the key word is "don't".
Yeah when someone says they currently don't have any plans it means they aren't going to do it unless it has a major effect on their business if they don't.
really?
Then that means all the 6.X device can not update to windows phone 7 severies !
Hope some oone could tans 7 to 6.X.
I am waiting
If nothing could do to refresh i will think about android or other os.........
Kloc said:
I'm passing on the HD2 just beacuse of this reason I got my TP2 and when the HD2 came out I said I would just wait to see what WM7 is going to look like before I upgrade. I'm glad I waited. Guess you guys should have done the same. No one nows if porting to the HD2 will be possible yet so I wouldn't get too excited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really... I'm really annoyed that I, (probably) won't be able to get the new OS on my new 'phone, but let's not forget that the HD2 is still one kick-ass mobile, and I am still seriously impressed with it.
The only thing that annoys me is the amount of people who, on seeing my phone for the first time, say "Ooh, is that an iPhone"
mr_lindy said:
as a owner of an hd2 I would he dissapointed but I am really positive about this for simple reasons. i may be wrong about this but still ill say my opinion .
as a lot of ppl have seen on YouTube there is a video of someone from Adobe with hd2 with flash 10.1 and a (new kind of IE) which according to me is available on wp7s (according to MS a renewed browser with pinch to zoom )
BTW the home button of hd2 can somehow be reprogramed as the search button.
ok on YouTube you see the start menu but you don't see him opening the browser.
as i said I may be wrong but its my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really have no idea what you're talking about, mate.
what a fail...and right before tmo usa will launch their touch hd2...i wonder how this will impact sales. I know I won't switch fully to tmo because of this and unless there's a beta on xda developers very soon, I will not go to touch hd2. I will wait
domineus said:
what a fail...and right before tmo usa will launch their touch hd2...i wonder how this will impact sales. I know I won't switch fully to tmo because of this and unless there's a beta on xda developers very soon, I will not go to touch hd2. I will wait
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm definitely waiting. I was thinking about upgrading to HD2 but I'll just stick with my Touch Pro2 til the holidays.
I've wanted the HD2 from the second I put my eyes on it. It's everything I wanted in a phone minus the slide out keyboard, but the screen size made me willing to bypass that. Then I saw Windows Phone 7 and realized I wanted it on my HD2. Not being able to have it on the HD2 is surely making me reevalutate my future purchase of the tmo HD2 which is released on 3/24.
I may not get the phone at all and I really find that to be a sad thing for myself, HTC, Microsoft and TMobile USA.
Not a huge disappointment. I love the HD2 the way it is. WM 6.5 with HTC Sense does a very nice job in everything I need and use the phone for.
What I don't need is a closed OS with a lot of eyecandy (well, one can argue about that) and xbox integration. Microsoft can state "everything what ppl care about directly at the homescreen" as often as they want. But what I actually care about is efficiency on how I can use the phone. And having big colored blocks on the screen for every possible program/contact/bookmark/pictures/appointment etc. is neither very efficient, nor very effective ...
So glad I didn't wait
chalid said:
Not a huge disappointment. I love the HD2 the way it is. WM 6.5 with HTC Sense does a very nice job in everything I need and use the phone for.
What I don't need is a closed OS with a lot of eyecandy (well, one can argue about that) and xbox integration. Microsoft can state "everything what ppl care about directly at the homescreen" as often as they want. But what I actually care about is efficiency on how I can use the phone. And having big colored blocks on the screen for every possible program/contact/bookmark/pictures/appointment etc. is neither very efficient, nor very effective ...
So glad I didn't wait
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... I should have waited for a good Android phone instead of the HD2.
I'm not at all interested in the dumb iPhone copycat OS that WP7S is. Good UI, but other than that, they've just copied Apple's bad bad policies (out of envy, I think).
I'm not going to adjust myself to an OS that doesn't multitask, doesn't let me install the stuff I want because of Marketplace censorship, doesn't let me manage my files on my own etc.
With Android, like WM6.5, I can have an OS that simply does what I want it to do. I don't have to adjust myself. That's how it should be.
Thus, the only regret I have is that I've not waited for a good Android phone, because WM6.5 is doomed and now nobody will develop anymore for it, whereas the quantity AND quality of the applications on Android has now surpassed Windows Mobile, and the OS itself is almost there.
I'm not sorry either... I change my phones every year - as flashy and useful and nice as they are, they don't last as long as $50 Nokia dumbphones did.
I use my HD2 very heavily and, apart from increased tear, this toy is much more important to me than a regular phone. As such, it absolutely needs to be the best toy around.
Also, the earlier I sell my phones, the more money I'll get.
I love it and enjoy using it for the most part, but by the end of the year I'm sure there will be devices available that I'll want more, and the love affair with HD2 will be pretty much a thing of the past.
Finally, even though I like what I see as regards to WP7, I'm not at all sure it will have the essential apps I need or that it will live up to the promise in its v.1 incarnation.
Android... I can't force myself to like either the OS or the phones carrying it. Yeah, they have multitasking and all, but I'm not buying a principle, I'm buying a phone.
vangrieg said:
Android... I can't force myself to like either the OS or the phones carrying it. Yeah, they have multitasking and all, but I'm not buying a principle, I'm buying a phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So Android buyers buy a principle?! Nonsense... they buy Android phones. Simple as that.
And of course, they buy them because they prefer them to other phones.
And of course, Android's features are reasons to prefer Android phones to other phones - and multitasking, for example, is one of them.
I don't like Google, I don't like Java... but if Google's OS is the only one to suit my needs, then I buy a Google phone. Because I'm not buying a principle (i.e. not Google or not Java), I am buying a phone (i.e. the phone that does what I need it to do).
OK I currently have a Samsung Fascinate, and im starting to get fed up with android and there horribly slow update time frame, and the bugs with this phone i wanna like it but for some reason i cant seem to.But i think what the problem is with android is that its so open and so many phone makers are making android phone these days and so fast its to much to kepp them all updated with the newest software version. And i have had a droid eris, droid incredible, a droid x, and now the samsung fascinate, and none of them seem to satisfy me. So my question to you guys is would it be worth switching from android to win7 when verizon gets some win 7 models this spring.
87jason said:
OK I currently have a Samsung Fascinate, and im starting to get fed up with android and there horribly slow update time frame, and the bugs with this phone i wanna like it but for some reason i cant seem to.But i think what the problem is with android is that its so open and so many phone makers are making android phone these days and so fast its to much to kepp them all updated with the newest software version. And i have had a droid eris, droid incredible, a droid x, and now the samsung fascinate, and none of them seem to satisfy me. So my question to you guys is would it be worth switching from android to win7 when verizon gets some win 7 models this spring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It all depends on what you want in a phone. I can only speak for myself about why I choose WP7 over the others, and that is because I prefer quality over quantity. For me, WP7 is the best mobile OS ever created. It has fine craftsmanship and superb quality written all over. It is a product that was labored over for a long time to make it the best it can be, regarding functionality, ease of operation, simplicity and quality of user experience. That is what I like. I'm attracted to effort from the heart. Like artwork, where the artist pours his/her self into what they create. WP7 is exactly that.
Do other systems currently have more features than WP7? Yes. But I was fully aware of the setup from the git-go. I knew a lot of features would be temporarily absent when I bought my HD7. But the good news is, there's an update scheduled for Jan that is *rumored* to be massive and provide so much more functionality that it will seem like WP8.
Compared to automobiles, WP7 is more akin to a Mercedes Benz or Lexus or Infiniti, whereas the other systems are more akin to ordinary cars. The world's leading software makers, who made Windows 7, which is the best and fastest selling PC OS in history and massively praised from every corner of the spectrum, have put together the world's best mobile OS in WP7.
MartyLK said:
It all depends on what you want in a phone. I can only speak for myself about why I choose WP7 over the others, and that is because I prefer quality over quantity. For me, WP7 is the best mobile OS ever created. It has fine craftsmanship and superb quality written all over. It is a product that was labored over for a long time to make it the best it can be, regarding functionality, ease of operation, simplicity and quality of user experience. That is what I like. I'm attracted to effort from the heart. Like artwork, where the artist pours his/her self into what they create. WP7 is exactly that.
Do other systems currently have more features than WP7? Yes. But I was fully aware of the setup from the git-go. I knew a lot of features would be temporarily absent when I bought my HD7. But the good news is, there's an update scheduled for Jan that is *rumored* to be massive and provide so much more functionality that it will seem like WP8.
Compared to automobiles, WP7 is more akin to a Mercedes Benz or Lexus or Infiniti, whereas the other systems are more akin to ordinary cars. The world's leading software makers, who made Windows 7, which is the best and fastest selling PC OS in history and massively praised from every corner of the spectrum, have put together the world's best mobile OS in WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The car analogy is a good one, I like android but it is like a fully loaded Ford (no disrespect) whereas WP7 is like a Ferrari, it oozes quality and design integrity, just doesn't have all the "toys" yet, but it will do.
just to add to that, i think if you give it a couple of months, play the wait and see game. there is a lot of hype around the first update, and althrough i have already jumped on the windows phone 7 bandwagon, i would suggest that if you're in no real rush, wait till the update comes out, and then compare windows phone to android, and ensure that it has all that you desire in a phone. and if it doesn't, are you willing to give up these things for what you may not have in android (e.g. uniformity, battery life [maybe?], and stability).
the gate keeper said:
just to add to that, i think if you give it a couple of months, play the wait and see game. There is a lot of hype around the first update, and althrough i have already jumped on the windows phone 7 bandwagon, i would suggest that if you're in no real rush, wait till the update comes out, and then compare windows phone to android, and ensure that it has all that you desire in a phone. And if it doesn't, are you willing to give up these things for what you may not have in android (e.g. Uniformity, battery life [maybe?], and stability).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+ 100000000000000000
android is not very stable
wp7 will be the best ...
If, as you say, you'll be waiting until Spring, then you'll already have the first update, maybe even a second one, and the biggest missing features will be there, so I'd say, go for it.
Well i think im going to switch once verizon gets a win7 phone that i like. You guys were very helpful and i think i will like windows alot better once i pick one up and use one, android has just become to aggravating for me lol.
87jason said:
Well i think im going to switch once verizon gets a win7 phone that i like. You guys were very helpful and i think i will like windows alot better once i pick one up and use one, android has just become to aggravating for me lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you haven't, I'd say go to an at&t or t-mobile store and try it out. I'm a 6.5 to 7 convert who's also used android and 7 is a blast to use. As it's been said, if this January update does come on time and does the fixes they're hyping, it might be the best OS out there.
In Poland WP7 is upcoming soon.....
I also have a Samsung Fascinate - with the help of the devs here on XDA it is a very usable phone running leaked Android 2.2 builds (and the official update appears to be finally coming out today or tomorrow).
That said, I would shell out a few bucks to Microsoft for a version of WP7 that could be installed on the Fascinate...
Wishful thinking, I realize... particularly being on a CDMA carrier - but I gotta wonder why there aren't devices being offered that can run a choice of OSes.
I suspect there are a number of GSM phones out there running Android on hardware that could support WP7 (and vis-versa). the economics and support hurdles of such an offering obviously make the ODMs and carriers shy away from this idea, but for the population of mobile device enthusiasts who hang out on forums like this, it would be a pretty cool selling point for a phone to be able to run WP7 or Android.
[EDIT] I just searched a bit and saw that XDA folks have done an Android-or-WP7 dual boot config on the HTC HD2... How's that working out?
ohhh, this is an interesting thread a few months later !
Any good "dual-bootable" (WP7 + Android) hardware out there?
ohgood said:
ohhh, this is an interesting thread a few months later !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah - perhaps I should've started a new thread for the dual-boot question - sort of changed the topic.
pcmag is sensatinalising things, stating android was sued into stopping wifi tethering...then going to be sued out of existwance by apple... now this
source
http://mobile.pcmag.com/device2/art.../www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384840,00.asp
Analyst Says Real Microsoft WP7 Sales Are 'Catastrophic'
By Sara Yin Tweet
Russian tech blogger and analyst Eldar Murtazin, the man credited for predicting the Nokia-Microsoft tie-up way back in December, has published a damning report that claims Microsoft sold only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices in its first six weeks.
there is more, hit the link
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
mikeeam said:
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, they are not. Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have been since WinMo. You think WinMo's sales were good? Look how long the Zune lasted.
Your phone will last longer than most geeks own a handset, and at least longer than the contract people would have signed.
The only doom and gloom the nay-sayers are speculating on is if Mango will be supported by current handsets. I guess you have to panic people somehow.
imho check the pockenow.com comments
actually they tell a FAR better story about thie "sales" number
and let's not forget eldar has been wrong, and a lot. Remember the nexus one being an apple brainchild, yeah he said that...
I mean as far as reporting devices in hand he is good. But some rumors or anything, he sucks
I think we all need to calm down, enjoy our devices, and care less about unofficial announcements and rumours.
i saw few video demos by MS is working really hard to make WP7 THE os to be on mobiles....
and with Nokia on board it looks like MS will be a player as right now HTC is the biggest OEM and their 75% devices are Android.... with nokia in the game i an hoping to see much better HTC devices (as the current HD7 is not good enough)..
i will not bother what ppl say as the mango will speak for it self...
MS also have came up with tools to migrate/redevelop iOS games for WP7 with less effort, come on guys if you are using a smartphone you should be smarter then this..
imho
I am pretty sure the numbers are close to 3-4 million
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. A few high profile phones would help WP7 a lot.
The general public seems to think all smart phones are iPhone. There needs to be a mass marketing campaign to deprogram them.
Not a single person who has used my phone dislikes it. I'm sure if more people knew about it more people would buy it.
I am hoping that the Nokia deal puts Wp7 in the hands of millions more people. IMO it's the best mobile OS out there.
Using 2010 data he claims he received from operators and retailers, Murtazin said Microsoft only sold 674,000 WP7 units in November and December, when you take out the number of phones given to all its employees.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using 2010 Data
Take out employee
TIGGAH said:
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
jtn04 said:
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android was a largely geek platform before verizon's droid does campaigns...
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
A Canalys report just released implies that Q1 2011 shipments for WP7 were in the 2.4 million range. That doesn't contradict the PC Mag report, other than for the people trying to spin the 674,000 sales figures as being for the entire time since release. It does show some steady, but slow growth:
http://wmpoweruser.com/canalys-around-2-4-million-windows-phones-shipped-in-q1-2011/
nicksti said:
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is totally true. The development keeps the platform alive and is one of the signs of it's life.
I'd never say MS has scrapped the platform for WP8. Nokia deal... Well it's not that clear for me.
However it's also true MS doesn't hurry bringing some changes which would make the platform better. No new top end devices actually is a catastrophe.
My point was the market is not predictable. So even with MS involvement lack of any success will not push it's development in the future.
ms79723 said:
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the same experience, if the UI is different... Unless you're using a different definition of "experience." I think that will be the case moreso for WP7 than for Android. There will be less incentive to upgrade a WP7 phone due to the limits on customization and the strict hardware specs, in addition to the "guarantee" that all handsets will get the same OS upgrades
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The radio is used the same on single and dual core phones. The Dual Cores save battery life regardless. The newer CPUs by default draw less power than the older CPUs, and running two cores at half capacity often results in less draw than running a single core at near full capacity (i.e. media playback, multi-tasking, etc.).
Again, the radio in both are pretty similar, but a more efficient processor will obviously result in less power usage. It's not hard to figure that out...
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Android Manufacturers are getting better with updates as well. From the way things are looking, Epic 4G/Vibrant users in the US may get Gingerbread around the same time (if not before) WP7 devices get Mango...
IIRC, the Samsung WP7 devices are still having update issues?
nicksti said:
Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
I'm honestly tired of people saying Microsoft isn't bringing "big changes to catch up to the competition" then what in the hell is Mango? I mean, I must honestly be dreaming of it's inclusions, right? Nobody consistently *****es at Apple for not releasing OSX updates monthly to "catch Windows" do they? Would I love to see a new feature every day of my life? Sure. But for anybody with half a brain who has viewed the demoes of Mango can see how tightly integrated most of these new features are. One feature feeds into another, which feeds into another, such as the Bing searches. When Apple releases an update yearly for iOS I don't hear complaints.
Some of you guys have unrealistic expectations and have this notion that you can manage Microsoft's resources and marketing better. So, I wonder, why you aren't in their position since you can handle it so much better. I continue to point out that Microsoft hasn't gotten to their position by making bad decisions, and have actually succeeded at almost every thing they have ever entered... Regardless of what was necessary.
Mango addresses a significant number of complaints, and these features aren't implemented in two days time. Software development takes a significant amount of time. We have companies dedicated to one program, ONE, and it takes them a year+ to release a miniscule update.
People also fail to remember than Android was a "failure" by most of your standards until Verizon completely took over their marketing campaign with their Droid advertisements filling up every other commercial slot. Now, regardless of carrier or device, an Android phone is dubbed a "Droid" and it's owner will tell you that it "Does." Eventually, Windows Phone WILL reach this level, this is Microsoft we're speaking about here.
I understand you guys are upset that it isn't Windows Phone, but to dub it a failure and to remove credit from Microsoft from scrapping a known enterprise system and diving head first into a consumer oriented "pretty" phone market is also unfair to this company. Call me a fan boy, but I see myself more of a realist, and having a father which develops extremely important software for a living, I understand this takes time.
N8ter said:
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
N8ter,
If your reponse is your expansion then I think you need to say it, because too often it seems what you are responding to something that was not said.
I did not say Microsoft being in it to win it would affect sales positively. Actually none of what I said had anything to do with increased sales. A poster made a statement saying if it is all true about the low sales then his/her phone is doomed. My response was just saying even though ordinarily poor sales will doom products, Windows Phone will not be doomed so easily. I also tried to define what doom meant.
It will take more than 1 year of poor sales to doom Windows Phone.
Fresh comment:
There are people on this board that believe the poor response to Windows Phone is due to its lack of features and it being a beta os.
Question - What due diligence does the average person do before picking up a contract phone?
Here is my thinking - even some nerds on this forum did not fully understand what they were getting into. In theory the fresh looking UI and the device offering should have been enough.
I do not know but the average person would not have known Windows Phone could not do custom ringtones. Or sync natively with Outlook. Or all the other stuff. They would have asked about features like: Wifi, 3G, Video Calling (not there), Facebook, Emails, etc. In theory they would have bought it, a sale would be registered, and they would have returned it. Companies tend to conveniently tell you sales, not sales minus returns.
I do not know the answer, but I suspect the answer is not easy.
So it is pretty much confirmed that Windows Phone 8 will use the Windows 8 ARM kernel, and Windows Phone 8 will be compatible with apps for Windows Phone 7/7.5. This is true because most WP apps today are written in Silverlight or XNA, which does not care what kernel the OS uses as long as there's an interpreter for the compiled code. Only a few apps use native code that needs to be recompiled for Windows Phone 8.
But what about the hardware drivers and OEM customizations on our phones? OEMs are mandated to use Qualcomm processors, but they can use whatever brand of camera modules and sensors as long as the drivers are there. Special camera modes and functions are provided by the phone OEM which I believe is low level enough, they are written in native code. Special functions not provided by Windows Phone 7 itself, such as DLNA or SRS Sound Enhancer, are also likely to be native code.
How can these native code intended for the Windows CE 6 kernel survive a kernel change to Windows 8 ARM? Will the OEMs rework their stuff to support Windows Phone 8? Or will we lose the OEM features when we upgrade to WP8? Will there be devices stuck in WP7.x forever because crucial hardware drivers (e.g. driver for the camera and sensors) aren't available for WP8?
Who knows. But the only existing rumor that would give an answer to your query is that no single WP7 device will ever be updated to Apollo, so no features will be lost.
vangrieg said:
Who knows. But the only existing rumor that would give an answer to your query is that no single WP7 device will ever be updated to Apollo, so no features will be lost.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WTF you smoking?
The rumor is that ALL EXISTING windows phone 7 devices including 1st generation will update to apollo. They may however not have all the features if hardware requires them. Tango brings support for lowerend handsets and will update to apollo. If your carrier doesn't roll out the update, look for it in the send cab thread and load it yourself. They are ms stock updates so no worries about a hacked version.
I didn't say that's what I think or believe. There hasn't been any official info on the upgrade path whatsoever. The only information was that WP7 apps would work on WP8. Which, come to think of it, doesn't say anything about current device upgradeability.
The rumor is that there won't be any upgrades. Take it as a rumor, I'm not trying to endorse it in any way, just acknowledging it exists.
I personally would give it some credit but not in the sense the source implies. I'd say he's playing. WP7 devices may never get "Apollo" which is this unicorn WP based on NT kernel, but from the end user perspective all you need is Apollo runtimes ported to WP7. So you'll have most of the WP8 experience on WP7 without running WP8. And of course you'd keep your beloved HTC hub and such stuff on your current device.
But all that is my speculation, not founded on any solid data.
http://wmpoweruser.com/tag/apollo/
The rumors are false. No one has actually said but it would be logical that it would... especially for 2nd gen handsets.
vangrieg said:
I didn't say that's what I think or believe. There hasn't been any official info on the upgrade path whatsoever. The only information was that WP7 apps would work on WP8. Which, come to think of it, doesn't say anything about current device upgradeability.
The rumor is that there won't be any upgrades. Take it as a rumor, I'm not trying to endorse it in any way, just acknowledging it exists.
I personally would give it some credit but not in the sense the source implies. I'd say he's playing. WP7 devices may never get "Apollo" which is this unicorn WP based on NT kernel, but from the end user perspective all you need is Apollo runtimes ported to WP7. So you'll have most of the WP8 experience on WP7 without running WP8. And of course you'd keep your beloved HTC hub and such stuff on your current device.
But all that is my speculation, not founded on any solid data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been spending half my net time today trying to find an answer for this question. I've resisted putting WP7 on my HD2, but it's slowly dying, and my contract ends in a couple of months, so I'm researching the best options now, only to find that I may yet again be buying another obsolete OS as WP8 is due in Q4. My problem is to buy the phone with the best hardware, which isn't much different to the lowest spec in WP7, and then upgrade the OS when it's released, or to buy a 1st gen phone cheap on a shorter contract so that my time on WP7 is limited and I can get a new WP8 phone a while later. Hopefully MS will announce something soon...
WMPoweruser has these pages-
We [MS]were pretty clear on this. Any app built today will run on next major Windows Phone version.
microsoft-needs-to-reassure-windows-phone-7-buyers-their-phones-are-upgradable
do not base a whole rumour on only something Eldar say
windows-phone-roadmap
because of the newer phones coming out though prolly what i would do is pick up a cheap surround or focus off ebay to get you buy (they are less then 100.00) and use your upgrade on a premium phone on release. Apollo is bringing multicore phones so you won't see them until then since pre-apollo doesn't support them. Once it's released, if you 1st gen makes it, sell it and you'll get your 100 bucks back with apollo already on it. If it doesn't, well you still haven't used your upgrade so you can get a new phone at a low cost with contract renewal.
bbobeckyj said:
I've resisted putting WP7 on my HD2, but it's slowly dying, and my contract ends in a couple of months, so I'm researching the best options now, only to find that I may yet again be buying another obsolete OS as WP8 is due in Q4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, remember that Mobile World Congress runs from 27 February to 1 March. There will probably be more information coming out around that time.
Here's another article (published in November) from a former Microsoft distinguished engineer.
http://hal2020.com/2011/11/04/windows-phone-8-and-windows-8-cousins-or-siblings/
His opinion was:
It is likely WP8 will run on first generation WP phones, and near certain it will work on the second generation (those that initially ship with) WP7.5 Microsoft wants a reputation of being as end-user friendly as Apple and so will not drop updates on older phones until their is a technological reason to do so. Plus it isn’t likely to want to piss people off who are sill in a 2-year contract period, which will be the case with most of the installed base. So I don’t see WP8 as a reason to wait. Now if you already have a first gen device (e.g., Samsung Focus) you might want to skip the second gen (e.g., Focus S) and see what happens next summer or fall.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the moment, I haven't seen any compelling evidence about WP8 upgrades one way or the other.
I don't think they will even have a beta for it this year, i would say they would push it out by this time next year, maybe we will get something from MIX13?
ROCOAFZ said:
because of the newer phones coming out though prolly what i would do is pick up a cheap surround or focus off ebay to get you buy (they are less then 100.00) and use your upgrade on a premium phone on release. Apollo is bringing multicore phones so you won't see them until then since pre-apollo doesn't support them. Once it's released, if you 1st gen makes it, sell it and you'll get your 100 bucks back with apollo already on it. If it doesn't, well you still haven't used your upgrade so you can get a new phone at a low cost with contract renewal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No such luck, nothing is going that cheaply in England, and the shortest contract on a new phone is for 18 months. I've got about 2 months to go, hopefully we'll know more by then, and the Titan 2 and Lumia 900 are due out soon after that...
The first Gen devices will be updated, just like the iPhone 3GS is still updated (released in 2009 and just got iOS5).
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
The first Gen devices will be updated, just like the iPhone 3GS is still updated (released in 2009 and just got iOS5).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know this for a fact, or is it just what you think will happen?
If the former, do you have a source?
If the latter, I would like to agree, and my gut feeling is the same. But this being microsoft you can't assume too much.
bbobeckyj said:
Do you know this for a fact, or is it just what you think will happen?
If the former, do you have a source?
If the latter, I would like to agree, and my gut feeling is the same. But this being microsoft you can't assume too much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you folks have craigslist ( or similar local for-sale listings ?) in england ? that's where i buy and sell my handsets. generally they're between 1/2 to 1/4 of the new price at a store, and you have hands-on experience before handing off the cash.
anyway, as to the update rumors and assumptions... i wouldn't trust any of them until it's in hand. not one.
ohgood said:
you folks have craigslist ( or similar local for-sale listings ?) in england ? that's where i buy and sell my handsets. generally they're between 1/2 to 1/4 of the new price at a store, and you have hands-on experience before handing off the cash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We do have craigslist, but it's not anywhere near the same size as the US site, it's next to useless outside of the major urban areas like London. eBay is more popular and even that has very few WP7 items for sale. The ones on sale are still quite expensive, I'm watching less than ten, all first gen, and I expect all will end at well over £100. There are also not many different models, a few HD7s, one or two others, but most are not listed. Also the sim only contracts are barely cheaper them the ones with the phones, the major difference is that the contracts are shorter. Do that negates the cost savings from buying second hand.
At the very list 2nd Gen devices (ship with Mango) will get a one form of the update. Can't say i'm as sure about 1st Gen devices though. However i'd imagine MS wants to reward their loyal users (1st Gen owners) so they may also get a toned down version of the update too.
bbobeckyj said:
We do have craigslist, but it's not anywhere near the same size as the US site, it's next to useless outside of the major urban areas like London. eBay is more popular and even that has very few WP7 items for sale. The ones on sale are still quite expensive, I'm watching less than ten, all first gen, and I expect all will end at well over £100. There are also not many different models, a few HD7s, one or two others, but most are not listed. Also the sim only contracts are barely cheaper them the ones with the phones, the major difference is that the contracts are shorter. Do that negates the cost savings from buying second hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Understood, good info here- thanked
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
XxAndrexX said:
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
don't worry, there is no benefit to doing that. all it would do is cause terribly bad publicity, and millions of customer dissupport calls.
XxAndrexX said:
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there already is a form of this, but its only triggered when it's detected that WP is being installed on a device it wasn't designed for. Like an android or WM device for example and the very early builds did encounter it.
A major MAJOR advantage WP7 has over Android is not being fragmented. Why would they throw that away? That seems stupid.
Sent from my SGH-I897
Although I understand why WP8 will not be compatible with existing devices, the bad PR is not exactly helping Microsoft/Nokia. The consolation prize of WP7.8 is not enough to dispel the Osborne Effect that is very likely to occur between now and the time WP8 devices are released.
So let's use this topic to suggest some damage control possibilities based on what's happening NOW, not what Microsoft coulda/shoulda/woulda done (there are plenty of other topics covering the latter).
I think Microsoft/Nokia/carriers should have a trade-in program: trade in a WP7 device for credit off of a new WP8 device. Depending on the trade-in amount, it may or may not stop the bleeding from the Osborne-inflicted wounds, though.
Any other suggestions?
killerb255 said:
I think Microsoft/Nokia/carriers should have a trade-in program: trade in a WP7 device for credit off of a new WP8 device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? They gave you a Lumia 900 or free. What more do you want?
An expansion of the "Registered Enthusiasts" program that would give us carrier locked stock images of a stripped down WP8 build or a $100 credit from Microsoft upon request.
sitizenx said:
Why? They gave you a Lumia 900 or free. What more do you want?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aside from the word "you" in the second sentence, good point. Many people got the Lumia 900 for free with contract, so it's not like they're being totally shafted.
Other suggestions or rebuttals? Keep in mind that the PR is still bad, and people are not exactly thinking "well, I got a free phone, I should be grateful." They're thinking "OMG, M$ jus skrewd mez!"
Look at the big picture.
The market share wasn't going to get any bigger in the next 3 to 5 months, especially with no new flash ship devices on the horizon.
With Windows 8 and this kernel, there will be a surge of developers. Tons of amazing apps, the market share will explode.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
I think they should stop talking to us as if we're retarded. Just that. Come clean and say "we're not updating you to WP8 because we don't want to". Enough with the "kernel re-write" stuff, it doesn't make sense. It's like saying you can't run Windows 8 on a Windows XP PC with enough power to run it because it has a different kernel.
I think trade in is the way forward. Based on IMEI they would know what phones were sold free, subsidized or full price. Pay the trade in value accordingly.
Sent from my Titan using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I am thinking along the lines of put as many goodies in the WP7.8 build and that way the consumers get a taste of the new OS and then go out and buy a new WP8, Not far from what's already in the pipeline I know but just exactly the way I would now treat this situation, Not everyone will be happy, But then again when is everyone ever happy
guilhermedsx said:
I think they should stop talking to us as if we're retarded. Just that. Come clean and say "we're not updating you to WP8 because we don't want to". Enough with the "kernel re-write" stuff, it doesn't make sense. It's like saying you can't run Windows 8 on a Windows XP PC with enough power to run it because it has a different kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A better analogy would be comparing Windows 9x (95/98/Millennium) with NT (2000/XP/Vista/7/8). Those have different kernels, but can run on the same x86 processors.
Either way, your point has merit. Windows RT is being written for ARM architecture...why not Windows Phone 8? One possibility could be that current hardware is just too dang slow, and we could have another early-gen Android-like situation, where single-core Android phones that aren't optimized (i.e.: rooted, Wi-Fi turned off, kill unused background apps, etc) run slow.
If the problem is more of a political/financial one, rather than a technical one, then I'm sure the fine cooks here at XDA will eventually come up with a way to run a Windows Phone 8 ROM on existing hardware.
AndyFZ1S said:
I am thinking along the lines of put as many goodies in the WP7.8 build and that way the consumers get a taste of the new OS and then go out and buy a new WP8, Not far from what's already in the pipeline I know but just exactly the way I would now treat this situation, Not everyone will be happy, But then again when is everyone ever happy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully they release a complete list of updates to be put in Windows Phone 7.8, if for no other reason than to try and pacify the masses.
...of course this is assuming that the complete list consists of more than just the WP8 UI update...
vetvito said:
Look at the big picture.
The market share wasn't going to get any bigger in the next 3 to 5 months, especially with no new flash ship devices on the horizon.
With Windows 8 and this kernel, there will be a surge of developers. Tons of amazing apps, the market share will explode.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but I wonder if Nokia can afford to wait that long...
The start screen isn't the only update in 7.8; its just the only one we KNOW about. Microsoft didn't completely release WP7.8 to the public because they aren't done with it. So don't jump to conclusions because you might just be happy with what's in the update.
If the problem is more of a political/financial one, rather than a technical one, then I'm sure the fine cooks here at XDA will eventually come up with a way to run a Windows Phone 8 ROM on existing hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hoping that the current hardware will work on 8... but they could throw all the hardware under the bus... as we saw from 6.x to 7.
Other than us 'enthusiasts', does the casual phone user really care whether their 900 will work with WP8 (other than the availability - or lack therof - of apps)?
The fact that none of the 6.x programs will work on 7 tells you that usoft is in it for the long haul (either that, or they made a SERIOUS miscalculation)! I know... it's a total re-vamp of the software.. had to do it... is 8 going to be as drastic of a change?
At least they are saying 'WP7 programs might have to have a 'minor' tweak' to run on 8... will give WP7 users some hope.
(I'm on the edge of getting a 900 (still running my tilt 2), but I'm not happy about some of the aps that I use on the t2 aren't available for WP7). The developers say 'they are looking into it'...
Tim
Nokia has done trade-ins before. I remember them doing it for at least the last 2 years.
At least this would be an option for those are complaining that they are stuck with the same phone for the remaining of their contract. Plus, it would help generate some momentum when the new devices are introduced. Microsoft is going to need to WP8 users right away and cannot wait multiple years to reach 2%. So give people who were loyal a discount when the phones are launched.
Microsoft, Nokia, and others could very well do nothing like when WP7 replaced Windows Mobile. We also know that there were large numbers of people who left permanently when this happened.
eeeelliott said:
The start screen isn't the only update in 7.8; its just the only one we KNOW about. Microsoft didn't completely release WP7.8 to the public because they aren't done with it. So don't jump to conclusions because you might just be happy with what's in the update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, Microsoft have apparently said that WP7.8 is the start screen only. See links below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLEB8CC228C5239441&v=fTNHgfy7lY8&feature=player_detailpage#t=5052s
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windowsphone75/windows-phone-78-preview-143476
tim051 said:
The fact that none of the 6.x programs will work on 7 tells you that usoft is in it for the long haul (either that, or they made a SERIOUS miscalculation)! I know... it's a total re-vamp of the software.. had to do it... is 8 going to be as drastic of a change?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. WP7 programs will still work on WP8.
tim051 said:
Hoping that the current hardware will work on 8... but they could throw all the hardware under the bus... as we saw from 6.x to 7.
Other than us 'enthusiasts', does the casual phone user really care whether their 900 will work with WP8 (other than the availability - or lack therof - of apps)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.