Why the Windows Phone 7 Start Page Has Blank Spots
Talks about one of the most debated things about wp7 design...the big black space to the right on the homescreen.
Interesting read
BS, its a simple design. Highly doubt scientist got involved, and highly doubt they were thinking about famous artist.
vetvito said:
BS, its a simple design. Highly doubt scientist got involved, and highly doubt they were thinking about famous artist.
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BS? You don't think someone with knowledge of Design stepped in to design Metro? They're not saying they drew from Da Vinci, they're saying it's based on Design Principles, which have been around since the Renaissance and proven over time.
The design principles he talked about:
Rule of Thirds
Golden Ratio Scroll down to where it describes the impact on Architecture, Painting, Book design, Perceptual studies, Music
Basically saying the Metro design comes from design principles. We're used to alot of symmetry, but symmetry is a bad way to make something stand out. Which is pretty much common sense if you think about it. I agree, that a majoir theme of the UI is simplicity, but when I look at Metro I see a company that did alot of homework and did a lot of work to achieve that balance between elegance and simplicity.
Also you can't just say the design of Metro comes from simplicity. The easiest thing would have been to make the tiles symmetrical. the fact that it's not shows that other thought processes went on.
They're not talking about Metro, they're talking about "Start".
Why make it sound complicated? They needed a way for people to know that there is more information to the right, that's all. Its not rocket science.
vetvito said:
They're not talking about Metro, they're talking about "Start".
Why make it sound complicated? They needed a way for people to know that there is more information to the right, that's all. Its not rocket science.
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Why do they need that? There's no such mechanic on any other mobile OS and there is often times when there is more content to the left or right. But it was part of a greater design decision to indicate more content through the design.
If you think it follows Design Principles by happenstance that's your prerogative. But I'll go with a designer designed it that way.
vetvito said:
They're not talking about Metro, they're talking about "Start".
Why make it sound complicated? They needed a way for people to know that there is more information to the right, that's all. Its not rocket science.
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Listen to Albert Shum and the other WP7 designers talk and you'll realize that a lot of thought was put into every tiny detail. Good design is like this and it's why techies/engineers suck at design.
Acually I wouldn't be surprised if some visual specialists were involved in such a process of creating new UI.
And to be honest, some of you don't have a clue how hard it is to find a real good visual proportions on screen, yes it is almost rocket science. From this aspect WP7 is probably well done.
Bull****!
Everyone at Microsoft are drunk and they still havent noticed its out of centre.
You guys are so right, I don't know how I didn't notice it before! It probably took them years and designers from all around the world just to push the tiles to the left! OMG, its brilliant!
People don't know there is more to the right so its beyond me as to how they came up with the idea to put the arrow up there. Probably took more history books, scientist, and designers from all around the world ages to come up with this! Freaking Awesome!
vetvito said:
You guys are so right, I don't know how I didn't notice it before! It probably took them years and designers from all around the world just to push the tiles to the left! OMG, its brilliant!
People don't know there is more to the right so its beyond me as to how they came up with the idea to put the arrow up there. Probably took more history books, scientist, and designers from all around the world ages to come up with this! Freaking Awesome!
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Yeah, right, this is why most of the interfaces around look like ****. Because making good one is too easy.
BS.
vetvito said:
You guys are so right, I don't know how I didn't notice it before! It probably took them years and designers from all around the world just to push the tiles to the left! OMG, its brilliant!
People don't know there is more to the right so its beyond me as to how they came up with the idea to put the arrow up there. Probably took more history books, scientist, and designers from all around the world ages to come up with this! Freaking Awesome!
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You think this was their first and only design? Somebody just said "let's put an arrow on the right to get to a list of apps" and this is what immediate was drawn up? Come on, you're being ridiculous.
It probably didn't take them all that much but this has been a point of contention among folks and this helps to explain why it actually makes sense and works quite well from a design perspective. The whole UI isn't just some designer's whim. There has been a lot of effort put into every aspect so that it works together. They even made a little book about it.
http://download.microsoft.com/downl...dows Phone Design System - Codename Metro.PDF
RustyGrom said:
It probably didn't take them all that much
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That's my point, everything else is just fluffy BS.
The article is ONLY talking about "Start" screen.
vetvito said:
You guys are so right, I don't know how I didn't notice it before! It probably took them years and designers from all around the world just to push the tiles to the left! OMG, its brilliant!
People don't know there is more to the right so its beyond me as to how they came up with the idea to put the arrow up there. Probably took more history books, scientist, and designers from all around the world ages to come up with this! Freaking Awesome!
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The golden ratio, the rule of thirds, and all these have been around for more than a millennia. The research and and statistics have been record decades ago about how people perceive art that follow these rules and guidelines. There is a general consensus that art that uses these rules is more appealing to the eye than the same thing without these rules.
Something like this is really huge because there's so much math involved in it and that its almost ubiquitous in nature, from plant life to the structure of DNA. However, its very simple to use and implement it.
All microsoft and other artists do is just play by these rules that have all ready been established. So all these numbers and "fluff" that the article presents can just as easily be applied to everything else.
vetvito said:
That's my point, everything else is just fluffy BS.
The article is ONLY talking about "Start" screen.
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Right but the article is accurate. You're making it seem as if the whole thing was done purely just so they could stick an arrow there and the sizing and layout was just what first came to someone's head without much thought. They likely had dozens of mockups with the final choice being tweaked many, many times before becoming what we see today.
RustyGrom said:
They likely had dozens of mockups with the final choice being tweaked many, many times before becoming what we see today.
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That's exactly what happened. Everything else is just fluff.
I figure joining a graphic design class at an university would make your brain explode with all "fluff" and "bull****" they teach there.
Ugh no. It would enlighten you as to why you do certain graphical things and the principles behind them.
vetvito said:
That's exactly what happened. Everything else is just fluff.
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So you're saying they didn't take design principles into account when creating those mockups and deciding on which direction to go? You're not making any sense... What's your point? What exactly are you disagreeing with?
They just stuck with the UI. Made it flow. Pushed it to the left because it looks better and because there is more information to the right. They followed the KISS rule.
The article just made MS design sound so scientific, when in reality everything we do is scientific.
However it doesn't mean MS went into great lengths searching for perfect measurements just to push things to the left.
We can say the exact same thing for any other OS. I call BS and fluff, just let the damn designer's do their job.
Related
I know this has been discussed before.
But have a look at this!
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/windows-phone-7-should-have-customizable-wallpaper
If you like it, post a comment on pocketnow, lets make some waves so that MS can hear us.
They have allready made som other changes according to our wishes, so there is still hope.
Yes, I think there should be more options to customize the homepage.
Transparent tiles & Wallpapers spring to mind. But I don't think this is a case of them not wanting to offer things of that nature, I just think that level of customization is out of the scope of this phase.
Edit: I think it should exist, but personally I'd probably disable the transparent tiles. I'd probably use a wallpaper.
I like the black background. With a amoled it will look very good.
And the black Background is metro... And i like it ^^
I can't really see the point of wallpaper on the home screen. The tiles take up too much space and it would just clutter a nice clean interface.
I would love to have a wallpaper and the tiles half transparent.
I thought it would look ugly- but that dosn't look half bad- is it possible to develop an app which does this or wouldn't Mircosoft allow it?
I really like this. I'm hoping that we see this added in the first revision of the OS. The more customization options the better.
Wallpapers not featuring in this release doesn't mean that they aren't coming. Loads of stuff (actually, most of the stuff people critisize) has been left out for time constraints rather than as a design decision. I expect that includes wallpapers, it seems like an obvious thing.
edit... double post
jakem said:
I can't really see the point of wallpaper on the home screen. The tiles take up too much space and it would just clutter a nice clean interface.
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are you even serious..."face palm".
typical damn winmo fanboy response, jesus some of you will defend this piece of crap phone till the end. yet another reason this device will FAIL and why i wouldn't use one if i got one for free.
who the heck is microsoft to tell me how to use my phone? i cannot believe these are the same people who gave us the masterpiece that is windows 7. this wp7 will do worse than the palm pre/pixi did.
...........
cheyne1 said:
Your a f***n idiot plain and simple. Get a Fu**n life seriously cuz u act like u have nothing to do but talk **** for whatever reason God only knows. As far as I know your messing with android anyways so myob. It just looks like your coming over here to mess with people but if u acted like this to people in person you would get your ass whooped.... little *****. You are one of the people that are completely worthless as far as these forums go so if u get that damn bored that u need to act like a little ***** to people u should probably kill yourself.
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lmao...did i strike a nerve? because i spoke the truth, deal with it.
and for your info, this has NOTHING to do with droid, im talking about how locked down this phone will be. it's worse than the iphone, learn to read before you respond.
fixxxer2008 said:
are you even serious..."face palm".
typical damn winmo fanboy response, jesus some of you will defend this piece of crap phone till the end. yet another reason this device will FAIL and why i wouldn't use one if i got one for free.
who the heck is microsoft to tell me how to use my phone? i cannot believe these are the same people who gave us the masterpiece that is windows 7. this wp7 will do worse than the palm pre/pixi did.
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I think your comment is a bit over the top...quite silly actually...
Will you be coming back here to eat your own words...
WP7 looks pretty sweet to me...with all the money and marketing they are putting into this it would be a long shot for it to fail...
LIP
lip said:
I think your comment is a bit over the top...quite silly actually...
Will you be coming back here to eat your own words...
WP7 looks pretty sweet to me...with all the money and marketing they are putting into this it would be a long shot for it to fail...
LIP
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i was an avid winmo user for years. wp7 not only looks like utter crap but it's more locked down than any phone ive seen. not being able to set my own theme or wallpaper is beyond ridiculous. this has nothing to do with me being a current android user. i just do not see this phone doing well until a crap load of changes are made, maybe by the devs. BUT from what i understand the devs won't be able to do much to it anyways. if i could shut off metro completely i may look into the phone just for the specs alone. most people i talk to agree 100% even loyal winmo devs. it's gonna take alot more than what wp7 currently has to offer to bring me back or most of the devs that defected to android. an believe me alot of them moved to android.
cheyne1 said:
...........
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pwnd!
10char...blah, blah!
i have a zune hd. that's quite similar to wp7. Some time ago I did see an app that draws a background. Maybe something like that will come to wp7 too
Basically ive been watching videos and previews and all that stuff and I thought this looks boring its just an iphone rip off, I liked windows mobile 6.5.x and stuff because of the high customization and Sense/Manila, Windows phone 7 is so clinical and boring and whats with hat programs menu that doesn't look good its boring list WOW to be honest id rather have my TyTN II back maybe the games will be good... SO! you'll have to have a good job too afford them.. im sorry Microsoft had a very different and exclusive mobile OS to be honest I think theyve ruined it.... Rant over and Android here I come.
Thanks for your opinion, further changes will take this into consideration
Lmao
Send from Your Mothers Basement
Are you done?
For the record, the Metro GUI has NOTHING similar to the iOS GUI except maybe the software keyboard.
The entire user experience is fundamentally different from anything out there. The panoramic experience is brand new and fresh... there are no analog effects at play. The GUI is 100% digital in inspiration and implementation... no faux glass effects or stupid animations unless app developers decide to implement them.
If you can look at a video of it running and not see a difference from say Android or iOS, you're delusional and are probably better off with a piece of homogenized Apple garbage.
God, I hate people like you that talk without thinking.
actually I see what he's saying. I believe the UI cannot be customized much like how iPhone can't really be customized, and even with the apps that you can make for windows phone 7 you have to use the same kind of UI unless you are developing a game (as far as we've seen) I think the problem stems from the fact that Microsoft has mad a lot of radical changes that make it more like a iPhone clone than an upgrade to the windows mobile that we all know and love. Windows mobile originally looked to be on par with the way Android worked. Now it looks like they are going after iPhone but an iPhone of 3 years ago than the iPhone now.
Iridox said:
Are you done?
For the record, the Metro GUI has NOTHING similar to the iOS GUI except maybe the software keyboard.
The entire user experience is fundamentally different from anything out there. The panoramic experience is brand new and fresh... there are no analog effects at play. The GUI is 100% digital in inspiration and implementation... no faux glass effects or stupid animations unless app developers decide to implement them.
If you can look at a video of it running and not see a difference from say Android or iOS, you're delusional and are probably better off with a piece of homogenized Apple garbage.
God, I hate people like you that talk without thinking.
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Ok shut up, I meant its turning into the iPhone ui I.E. black background with random icons I meant to say the homepage no need to cry about it. From my mothers Basement??? Hmm I hate my mum and am not living with her + I am 16 you cant expect more from me I left school 11 weeks ago and am attending a 9-5 course I have also just passed a lifeguard course... Oh and I don't have a basement so... ummm, fail, you idiot, I also said "is it me" A question so you should have told me I was wrong not? Plus it was my opinion I wanted other opinions not a load of Sh*t from idiots. Oh and I said "like" I can see a difference otherwise I wouldnt be saying time to go to Android or I prefer WM 6.5.. well done hard man...
God, I hate Fan boy idiots like you who talk a load of ****.
Hmm why not try saying no it is not like the iPhone os and explain it no need to have a go at people for having different opinions and/or being wrong and as you say some of it is different to the iPhone ios crap but it is becoming very similar in certain ways. If I get banned for what I just said then oh well, wouldnt of said it if I didnt receive rude responses.
xcom923 thank you for being polite. Thats exactly what I meant by turning into iOS its just not really customizable ok people will jailbreak it but a background wont really look good, you cant see it theres boxes in the way. Thanks xcom =)
I just typed out a whole response to this, but decided not to post it.
Meh, some people can't be helped.
Iridox said:
I just typed out a whole response to this, but decided not to post it.
Meh, some people can't be helped.
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You never tried to help me you just got angry and raged and then said some people cant be helped... YOU NEVER TRIED TO "HELP"
That's a mighty chip on your visually challenged shoulder...
dudes45 said:
You never tried to help me you just got angry and raged and then said some people cant be helped... YOU NEVER TRIED TO "HELP"
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Calm down, or leave. Soon enough the mods will see this and sort it out if it carries on.
There is no need for that sort of attitude at all.
Im not having a go, just chill out
Iridox, he was just voicing his opinion, I sort of think your reply was a bit on the hard side.
I agree with what your saying, fundamentally. I can not stand the look of WP7. I wouldn't say it looks like Ios, but I agree its going in that direction, i.e. closed.
I, forone will not be buying a phone running it.
Can we PLEASE not turn this into a flaming thread.
There is enough of them.
Wp7 basically looks great.
Seriously, does anyone think Window Phone 7 looks good? It looks crap
While under the hood WM7 might be really cool and flashy (or flashless imho) I'm no fan of the light blue squares on the home screen, yes they are functional but I think for all the bling behind the scenes they could have been a little more on the creative side, heck even circles would have been a step above the blue square.
Disclaimer
This is just my humble opinion and no animals, phones, young people, llamas, or anthing organic in nature was harmed or otherwise flamed during it's writing. ;-)
lonelykatana said:
Calm down, or leave. Soon enough the mods will see this and sort it out if it carries on.
There is no need for that sort of attitude at all.
Im not having a go, just chill out
Iridox, he was just voicing his opinion, I sort of think your reply was a bit on the hard side.
I agree with what your saying, fundamentally. I can not stand the look of WP7. I wouldn't say it looks like Ios, but I agree its going in that direction, i.e. closed.
I, forone will not be buying a phone running it.
Can we PLEASE not turn this into a flaming thread.
There is enough of them.
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He said he hates people like me... No need to say that and he essentially called me stupid.. so I just got annoyed it was a bit rude...I dont join forums to be intentionally rude or abusive I just join for help and friendly useful answers. It annoys me when I get an answer like that I asked about it I did not say it was anything just said it "seems like", he could have corrected me instead of saying he hates people like me, lol I know this sounds like a retarded excuse but im not happy at the mo just split up with my gf and stuff so acting a bit funny at the mo... If I had relied more like hatemywing, Azure, Doministry I wouldnt have been rude. So yeah, back to the thred no more flaming ++ sorry Iridox..
Not my words, but a good point:
"Why doesn't WP7 have a beautiful enertia/page scrolling like the iPhone. Why does clicking or touching on a 'tile' makes the other tiles slowly fades away one by one instead of having a different navigation metaphor...this is such a bad navigation design and is even bad for the eyes over time... MS should take care of the core fundamentals.... a very fast, snappy and responsive UI with efficient scrolling. In all the demos, the tile or icon doesn't respond to touch in a consistent manner and have to be touch 'multiple' times before it works... If you can't demostrate the you perform the core well, why should anyone care? You can call anyone an MS Hater all you want, but at the end of the day, the writer has a point and those flaws are very obvious, and all you know that.
At the end of the day, what makes Apple iPhone a hit has to do more with a pleasing and beautiful UI (icons, ects)... than xbox, sharepoint,.. those square Hubs are so ugly... and MS idea about theming is giving the hubs different colors?"
Source
vetvito said:
Not my words, but a good point:
"Why doesn't WP7 have a beautiful enertia/page scrolling like the iPhone. Why does clicking or touching on a 'tile' makes the other tiles slowly fades away one by one instead of having a different navigation metaphor...this is such a bad navigation design and is even bad for the eyes over time... MS should take care of the core fundamentals.... a very fast, snappy and responsive UI with efficient scrolling. In all the demos, the tile or icon doesn't respond to touch in a consistent manner and have to be touch 'multiple' times before it works... If you can't demostrate the you perform the core well, why should anyone care? You can call anyone an MS Hater all you want, but at the end of the day, the writer has a point and those flaws are very obvious, and all you know that.
At the end of the day, what makes Apple iPhone a hit has to do more with a pleasing and beautiful UI (icons, ects)... than xbox, sharepoint,.. those square Hubs are so ugly... and MS idea about theming is giving the hubs different colors?"
Source
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I could be wrong, but it should have enertial scrolling. One thing I like about the scrolling is the 'rubber banding'. If you scroll too far the text area compressed and then snaps back when you release. At least my zuneHD does and from every account people are suprised by how snappy the UI is.
With the UI as a whole it seems to be hit or miss. Those open to change seem to love it but those who want more of the same seem repulsed.
For me, I'm looking for something different and I like it. If you want icons on a grid then go for Android or iOS, simple as that.
So you prefer tiles on a grid?
vetvito said:
So you prefer tiles on a grid?
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Wow, that was a quick reply. The tiles aren't static. They are a cross between widgets and icons.
The UI tries something different and I at least find it refreshing.
vetvito said:
Not my words, but a good point:
"Why doesn't WP7 have a beautiful enertia/page scrolling like the iPhone. Why does clicking or touching on a 'tile' makes the other tiles slowly fades away one by one instead of having a different navigation metaphor...this is such a bad navigation design and is even bad for the eyes over time... MS should take care of the core fundamentals.... a very fast, snappy and responsive UI with efficient scrolling. In all the demos, the tile or icon doesn't respond to touch in a consistent manner and have to be touch 'multiple' times before it works... If you can't demostrate the you perform the core well, why should anyone care? You can call anyone an MS Hater all you want, but at the end of the day, the writer has a point and those flaws are very obvious, and all you know that.
At the end of the day, what makes Apple iPhone a hit has to do more with a pleasing and beautiful UI (icons, ects)... than xbox, sharepoint,.. those square Hubs are so ugly... and MS idea about theming is giving the hubs different colors?"
Source
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Im not sure what videos that person was watching, but of all the video's i've seen (ENGADGET REVIEW VIDEO INCLUDED) every reviewer has said how snappy and fast it was. The videos made that apparent as well.
So my opinion greatly differs in that aspect.
Until i have a phone in my hand i wont know for sure how much i really like or dislike it.
One thing i've noticed that is a flaw in my opinion is the ability to quick switch between "Hubs" or apps. You have to go all the way to the home screen and THEN open an app. You are unable to somehow quickly switch.
I assume a lot of these issues will be fixed within the first 6 months after release.
No it's not just you.
So just how is Windows Phone 7 doing, and what is next in Microsoft’s effort to get back into the phone game?
In the hot seat next at D: Dive Into Mobile is Joe Belfiore, one of the Microsoft VPs in charge of the company’s phone effort. We’ll see what he has to say on these and other topics, including a planned January update that would bring copy and paste, among other things
Transcript: http://mobilized.allthingsd.com/20101207/microsofts-joe-belfiore-talks-windows-phone-7-at-d-div/
Video: http://video.allthingsd.com/video/j...e-market/2F3322D5-0029-4F97-BAC3-BAF82BE2B9CE
Walt comes over as a bit of an iDiot in the interview..
That's not the Walt I know when he is interviewing Steve Jobs.
what a douchebag
I mean he is! Belfore was surprisingly calm he could've been eric lin in this interview
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTA3MjU0MTYw.html
Yeah, I read this over at Engadget yesterday. The Walt guy kind of being a douche. Only focusing on the negatives of WP7. Don't get me wrong, Android and iOS are farther along but you have to realize WP7 has only been out in the market for just over a month. And don't forget, WP7 went gold in September so there could easily be a major update in Feb. as that would have been 5 months post going Gold. Belfiore seemed to stay calm and answered the questions. Though I think it would have been better if he just said "Are you mad that Microsoft isn't Apple or Google?"
He was also quite disrespecting of the RIM official as well. I couldn't believe what I was reading when I found this on Engadget.
What I don't understand is why are they making a big deal out of the old kernel? I mean, MS's kernel is solid and better than any other...it just happens to be old. That just means MS was ahead of the pack that much longer.
It can hardly be better than the Linux kernel...
And while Walt is a douche, Belfiore didn't exactly do well there. Apparently Microsoft doesn't have a plan for catching up and this is the real issue here!
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
tomhierl said:
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
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I think you are putting words in his mouth - he said he didn't know how long it would take create that sort of volume - longer than a couple of months possibly a couple of years.
tomhierl said:
It can hardly be better than the Linux kernel...
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Android uses a heavily modifies kernel and there are many things nt does better than linux.
Not breaking ur software when u update it being one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
tomhierl said:
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
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Where did he say anything like that? He said it may be year(s) before they catch up to the sales volume of android, but i'm not sure what you mean by "catch up" If you ask me, my Focus is already ahead of android in everything that matters.
I'm sort of surprised MS isn't touting some of their firsts.. first to market with a subscription music service - one that the infamous apple can't even do and no other phone can really compete against experience wise. First to market with fully integrated facebook/people hubs
BTW, the host was a complete Douche.. if he thought he was being tough, he was just coming off as stupid. He reminds me of a kid that keeps on asking "are we there yet" when they parents have already given every conceivable answer and the kid just doesn't give a rats ass anyway
tomhierl said:
It can hardly be better than the Linux kernel...
And while Walt is a douche, Belfiore didn't exactly do well there. Apparently Microsoft doesn't have a plan for catching up and this is the real issue here!
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
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Attention Attention...possible android fanboy alert!
blahism said:
I'm sort of surprised MS isn't touting some of their firsts.. first to market with a subscription music service - one that the infamous apple can't even do and no other phone can really compete against experience wise. First to market with fully integrated facebook/people hubs
BTW, the host was a complete Douche.. if he thought he was being tough, he was just coming off as stupid. He reminds me of a kid that keeps on asking "are we there yet" when they parents have already given every conceivable answer and the kid just doesn't give a rats ass anyway
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So what I'm thinking the guy reminds me of my son when we gets on one (he is 3) and I to think MS needs to learn the skill of bragging they have had to defend themseves so much they seem to have forgot how to big up the things they have done first/best. Zune is untouchable and its about time they let people know.
Doesn't matter how rude the host was, the microsoft guy had NOTHING to new or exciting/relevant to say. From the look on his face I bet he was expecting another light interview full of fluffy and nothing of value, which is exactly what he delivered.
It's one thing to not give timeframes for when features will be released but it's worse to not even let developers know if the features are going to be added or not.
Multitasking? - maybe
Sockets? - maybe
Meanwhile I'm slowly turning my attention to other platforms that actually have working API and a much broader market including tablets.
The whole live at dive thing was full of bad hosts.
You guys have to remember its like politics. Belfiore couldn't say much, I think he did a great job. One slip up and he could have lost his job.
He couldn't say the people hub is the first of its kind, because its not.
vetvito said:
The whole live at dive thing was full of bad hosts.
You guys have to remember its like politics. Belfiore couldn't say much, I think he did a great job. One slip up and he could have lost his job.
He couldn't say the people hub is the first of its kind, because its not.
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where else has a people hub been used? This isnt trying to be a back chat i am genuinely interested as i have owned a blackberry (storm) android (htc desire) symbian (n95 8gb) my family have iphones and i use them at work and my wife has had an lg cant remember what model it was though and a nokia e70. I have not seen anything on these like it are you referring to the palm pre as i have never seen this is action? But the closest i have seen is the way android pulls the data together and the use of widgets.
Yes Android. Twitter, Facebook, and others have the option of integrating with your contacts. I just hit my contacts button and bam there is everything I need social wise. All the latest updates.
Yea, People Hub isn't new. The only thing new about it is the workflow (i.e. the way it actually functions). And it had to be "new" in that regard because the WP7 UI workflow demanded it. It would be like putting new mail counts in a notification bar with the Outlook Tile right there in you face...
I agree much of that was political.
Engadget's "additions" on their site probably made it read worse than it was. We all know who they are rooting for, though.
That interview totally cracked me up! It's true Belfiore couldn't say much, and beside that it wouldn't do good to give Walt more fuel to put aflame.
I like MS's approach with the WP7 marketing, development and app screening, and even opening up nearly all their whitepapers to developers - professionals and freelance alike, as well as students. I'm not familiar with how Apple does things on the development side but it seems their holding their own in terms of quality assurance of apps, but in Android its simply a horrible experience (at least from my experience, limited as it is).
On the issue of Legacy Code, well one really shouldn't re-invent the wheel. The Apple Mobile Kernel is basically a stripped off version of the original MAC kernel with a lot of optimizations, including its modular approach. The Android kernel is basically the linux kernel with, again, optimizations and changes for mobile architecture. But Hey, who's the layman who will say that Android and iOS isn't new? I think the WP7 OS is just getting dimmed by the Windows Mobile OS.
But I had to laugh at Walt's use of "Carrier Crapplets". ) Not that I'm against them.
denizen08 said:
I like MS's approach with the WP7 marketing, development and app screening, and even opening up nearly all their whitepapers to developers - professionals and freelance alike, as well as students. I'm not familiar with how Apple does things on the development side but it seems their holding their own in terms of quality assurance of apps, but in Android its simply a horrible experience (at least from my experience, limited as it is).
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I've been using android for about six months now and the biggest frustration for me is the endless, endless sea of crap that is the market. Some apps will be absolutely genius, work flawlessly and be well designed. Others look like they've been made by a sick monkey with a crayon. Admittedly, my experience is limited, but most of the apps I've tried (30-40+) have been in the latter category.
I'm sure if I had the time to go through every app for everything I required in the market, I could find good ones, but I don't, so I like the idea of quality control.
Who is the bearded fellow? he's a real ball buster lol
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/18/visualized-the-glamorous-lifestyles-of-wp7-jailbreakers/
Sooo awesome
Good on you MS.
It's important nowadays for these companies to find a middle ground between locking a product down completely and opening it for everyone/anyone to mess with.
On one hand, if they lock it down, piracy will inevitably occur on a wide scale.
If they open it up, they won't make any money for future developments.
It's good to see they're taking an open approach and using there heads for a change.
its a good thing for MS open up and listen to idea.. wp7 has a bright future.. i haven't touch my droid since oct
I smell a publicity stunt. Large corporations are ran by lawyers, not good hearted people that care about what people want.
Do you actually think any thing good will come from this? I see a one sided deal happening nothing more.
So getting a 4XL T-Shirt declares WP7 as awesome.
Cool
This is great news. I was surprised that MS locked WP7 down so much, and wouldn't be surprised at all if they allowed sideloading in the future, turning the marketplace into a sort of "approved apps" store, like Apple have done on the Mac.
In response to the guy who's never had a job, large corporations are run by a CEO or equivalent, same as everything else. Microsoft would do better to welcome community support than be seen to be outsmarted by it, so I'm sure they will.
vetvito said:
I smell a publicity stunt. Large corporations are ran by lawyers, not good hearted people that care about what people want.
Do you actually think any thing good will come from this? I see a one sided deal happening nothing more.
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Nice way to think positive haha!
We'll get what we want one way or another.
vetvito said:
I smell a publicity stunt. Large corporations are ran by lawyers, not good hearted people that care about what people want.
Do you actually think any thing good will come from this? I see a one sided deal happening nothing more.
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cstrife999 8 hours ago in reply to Sang Noir
Seriously this is nothing short of a PR stunt. I would bet my bottom dollar that behind the scenes things are moving differently.
Are you this guy on Engadget?
Yep vetvito, it's me again. Calling you out on your negativity towards WP7.
I know public discourse is encouraged here but public discourse that's always negative is kinda annoying.
This is an awesome move by MS. Some other companies would've ambushed them with lawyers once they were behind closed doors.
Oh how they have learned
I actually believe that MS has learn't some important lessons prior to releasing Win 7 & Phone 7. The most important one being listen to all your customers and take on board what they are saying.
Will be interesting to see what comes of the discussions and if the OS will be opened up somewhat for customisation.
Go the Chevron guys.. Oh, they are Aussies too.
Hopefully something good comes out of this.
Businesses want the ability to side-load apps also. And I'd love to be able to play with my phone by making apps that I have no intention of trying to sell or market.
Otherwise... well, at least they got a T-shirt.
lekki said:
cstrife999 8 hours ago in reply to Sang Noir
Seriously this is nothing short of a PR stunt. I would bet my bottom dollar that behind the scenes things are moving differently.
Are you this guy on Engadget?
Yep vetvito, it's me again. Calling you out on your negativity towards WP7.
I know public discourse is encouraged here but public discourse that's always negative is kinda annoying.
This is an awesome move by MS. Some other companies would've ambushed them with lawyers once they were behind closed doors.
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What the hell is endgagdet? Who said anything negative?
Anyway, more security is all I see coming.
More awesomeness.
Brandon Watson just sent a tweet to Geohot offering him a WP7 Phone so that he could "build cool stuff" and "let dev creativity flourish."
you think microsoft is that good
they're doing a bit more
http://wmpoweruser.com/geohot-threatens-to-buy-a-windows-phone/
they are personally giving geohot a wp7 device FOR FREE
*claps* bravo microsoft!
unless, they're asking all hackers to plug in all conceivable holes which may lead to less options...
well geohot got more than a tshirt
I believe is going to try to figure out a proper way for people to make homebrew stuff for WP7. Proper meaning that there is some security that needs to go in but still let the developers do whatever they can. Is it walled? Yes, but it to some extent there needs to be security so that the people who are making applications for the marketplace don't get sh*tted on (aka piracy). Hopefully this happens. At least Microsoft is listening.
i believe microsoft is moving in the right direction. we still need to see results, but at least they're making it secure for the people who have no idea, but trying to open it up to those that actually understand what they're doing, and what the risks are for doing it.
Apple and Sony could really learn from MS... who knew that MS wasn't as backward as the media likes to make them out to be.
Brandon Watson and the MS WP7 team are incredibly insightful. Whether it's for PR or not, this is going to make WP7 look MUCH better in the eyes of the public (well, the non-Android and iPhone fanboys anyhow, but the fanboys don't matter anyways).
In the words of Admiral Ackbar.... ITS A TRAP
vetvito said:
What the hell is endgagdet? Who said anything negative?
Anyway, more security is all I see coming.
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I quit reading Engadget after seeing their Apple biased.
So do I, but I am sure that it is much more than that, I hope.
vetvito said:
I smell a publicity stunt. Large corporations are ran by lawyers, not good hearted people that care about what people want.
Do you actually think any thing good will come from this? I see a one sided deal happening nothing more.
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I've worked for large corporations for the last 15 years, and what you said is complete and total bull****. Lawyers don't run the company, they're hired to try and *protect* the company from a lawsuit-happy public. Generally speaking, the people who run large corporations are no different from anyone else.
That said, yes, there are incidents of people becoming power-happy and thinking they can use the protection of a corporation to get away with damn near anything. And more often than not, those people are slapped down like the idiots they are, as they deserve. Meanwhile, the decent people at the company are left to pick up the pieces and try to save what face they can.
It's bad ideology to lump people so blindly into groups the way you just did. It's no different than using race or religion as a basis for discrimination, and you really should think a little more deeply and look at the overwhelming majority of GOOD people who run GOOD businesses rather than tripping into trite generalizations.
I believe MS see the reasoning behind giving their audience what they want. Even though Apple are PR geniouses, MS aren't stupid either. Think of all the programs that are "leaked" to "pirates" and never seem to stop working, even though the serial is openly exchanged. They may not play the media the way Hand Jobs does, but they sure know how to create hype by going the back way - letting power users and early adopters "find" their apps. Guess who really decides which applications and platforms to use. The management? Nah...It's the system administrators.
Back in the day I was told to install a server from RIM so we could test out their hand sets. The day before sending it back I did a half-assed install just to prove it wasn't working. Didn't even want to check if it was possible Think RIM got a foot inside even though the importer were best buddies with the CEO and were part of the board? Nah...
Same thing applies here. MS knows it, and they won't **** on their user base. That's the same reasoning as not releasing their lawyers on "pirates". In other words - not run by the lawyers, but actually keeping them on a pretty tight leash.
Have you read about Brandon Watson's challenge to Molly Wood? What about her first impressions? Do you feel her complaints are valid?
Please don't derail this thread into an Android/W7 argument (again!), she happens to have lots of followers and any of her criticism will resonate with many and in my opinion will help address some things faster (some things she hasn't discovered yet so try to give a her break on that).
I'm not running Mango so I'd like to hear from people who do and know if they agree with what she has to say.
http://news.cnet.com/molly-rants/
The only problem with her review is that too many of her "cons" are simply based on ignorance (and I don't mean that in a pejorative sense). She didn't know the correct way to do something on WP7, and tried to apply Android techniques. When they didn't work, she assumed that the feature was either broken or missing.
If her followers read those criticisms and assume she is right, it may prevent them from giving WP7 a fair chance on their own.
Yep. Tis already begun. Two commenters have said they won't buy based on "Molly's impressions" and "little annoyances" she's described.
Her only real beef should be with the navigation. Outside of that, she has an argument as to comparitive number of apps. Yet, she hasn't explored the marketplace thoroughly enough to actually talk about what's there. She just knows two apps she uses aren't there.
I'd give her some time with it and I'm certain she'll clear up some of the things she's already posted which are incorrect.
She will... She complained before on her podcast about not having an app for facebook chat then corrected it on her blog after she was told it's built-in. Hopefully the listeners also read the blog, otherwise some might be a lost cause already.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I'm really glad she's made such a fuss over the navigation and I really hope Microsoft pay attention. It's bloody stupid as it is - not matter what the reasons may be (I've heard licencing issues?) Microsoft need to sort this out.
She has some other valid points, but she hasn't (as she admits) touched upon a lot of the more unique features of WP7.5
Casey
Apparently turn by turn is indeed due to licensing issues but with Nokia owning Navteq this should be sorted in Tango (hopefully) or Apollo.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Peew971 said:
Apparently turn by turn is indeed due to licensing issues but with Nokia owning Navteq this should be sorted in Tango (hopefully) or Apollo.
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I sure hope it is, because as it now stands, you can guarantee that it will be the cause of a lot of mocking from Android users. And comments such as this one I read on the article page aren't going to help much either:
Well Molly I have to say I actually enjoy the navigation. Think about it, if everyone's satnav did this, that commercial where the guy is driving his car and his wife calls and then the satnav (which is a woman's voice, btw) goes, 'Motel is on the right' and the wife goes, 'MOTEL?!? **CLICK**' that would never happen. While I agree it is a bit of an annoyance, I like it better. And it's fun when it congratulates you. Didn't you say you like the "pretty sounds?" Well when you do something right, it makes a pretty sound. so, please don't harp on what is probably the best implementation of navigation in the history of cell phones. Also, The thing I don't like about other satnav implementations, is that they get annoying. "In 1.5mi. turn left onto Camino St. then turn left onto Avery Avenue" then .25 mi later it says nearly exactly the same thing. For me what's great about the Mango implementation is that you only have to listen to the annoying computerized lady voice when you forget what your next turn should be. That's the brilliance of the Mango implementation.
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It's one thing to defend Microsoft for having no choice but to implement the system as it is due to licensing issues, but it's quite another to try to make the absurd claim that this system is better in any way. It's not.
it wasn't a biased or negative critique. id say it was spot on, by a regular user trying to use it as a daily driver. speaking of daily driver, I had no idea navigation was so broken. ugh !
yes, ios and android are mentioned .... if you are surprised or annoyed by this, smell some coffe. ios and android are dominating the market for a few reasons, this review sheds light on them.
improve and enjoy some success microsoft !
The verdict is in, it's a 50/50. I read what she had to say and find her point about Skydrive fair. It needs to have a proper app and a desktop client with better functionality. For techies it might be fine but for an average user it's a bit of a mess.
Off to watch her video now...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol;title
Peew971 said:
The verdict is in, it's a 50/50. I read what she had to say and find her point about Skydrive fair. It needs to have a proper app and a desktop client with better functionality. For techies it might be fine but for an average user it's a bit of a mess.
Off to watch her video now...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol;title
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And also how can an average user FIND OUT that Facebook chat has an inbuilt Messenger?
Sorry guys, but this review was amature at best. If you are going to call yourself a writer, and agree to do a test drive of a device, you owe to your readers to find the correct answers to any concerns or misunderstood features of said device. This is where she failed, and this is where CNET always fails.
This is nothing more than letting your Mom or Sister borrow your phone and you then ask them for an opinion. They are not allowed to seek actual advice, from an actually knowledgeable source.
This type of review is a disservice to technology in general. That is my opinion and that is why I do not use CNET for anything important.
I agree completely. She made so many mistakes and it was obvious she didn't bother researching any of her so called problems. The majority of the stuff she said wrong was corrected in her comments which she clearly didn't read. What a joke.
naplesbill said:
Sorry guys, but this review was amature at best. If you are going to call yourself a writer, and agree to do a test drive of a device, you owe to your readers to find the correct answers to any concerns or misunderstood features of said device. This is where she failed, and this is where CNET always fails.
This is nothing more than letting your Mom or Sister borrow your phone and you then ask them for an opinion. They are not allowed to seek actual advice, from an actually knowledgeable source.
This type of review is a disservice to technology in general. That is my opinion and that is why I do not use CNET for anything important.
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was Molly Wood ever a man ?
Professor Simon Peach said:
was Molly Wood ever a man ?
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I dunno, but the poor girl looks 10 years older than she really is.
And a little less sex in the city marathons with a jar of burbon/jug of martini, and a little more technology knowledge would be nice. Especially for a CNET writer.
Outlook and calendar
Watching a relative of mine having the Galaxy II, then I really understand how far behind email and calendar is... I just can't believe that she couldn't see that!!!
Merging mailboxes with threaded email... Outlook, Gmail, Live and Facebook calendar all in one with different colors... even better than the pc-version
Someone should have assisted her with this... someone who understands the value of it...
All that being said maybe it also means WP7 is not as simple as we all think for an average user.
Don't get me wrong, WP7 is very simple and intuitive but if you need a manual to understand some features then it means it could be made simpler.
Maybe it's because she was coming from Android rather than say a feature phone and had expectations but the point remains. And she's right about Skydrive/Turn by Turn.
if she got final mango like everyone else, there is a nice book to help the transition. right in the programs menu. with videos and text to speech for every, single, thing.
Peew971 said:
All that being said maybe it also means WP7 is not as simple as we all think for an average user.
Don't get me wrong, WP7 is very simple and intuitive but if you need a manual to understand some features then it means it could be made simpler.
Maybe it's because she was coming from Android rather than say a feature phone and had expectations but the point remains. And she's right about Skydrive/Turn by Turn.
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I agree.
If a person is coming from a standard phone to WP7 their impressions will be different, then those coming from another platform. I personally don't find any of the OS's easier or harder to use they're just different, with their own learning
curve. All reviewers bring their own personal bias into reviews IMO. The question is whether you think WP7 is better, not equal to other platforms. If you ask that type of question you have to take the good with the bad.
The map directions tapping is silly, MS should have known better then to even bother to include such a poorly implemented feature. If they don't have the rights to do it properly then don't do it.
phoneguy 4567 said:
The map directions tapping is silly, MS should have known better then to even bother to include such a poorly implemented feature. If they don't have the rights to do it properly then don't do it.
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Than, they'd complain there's no default/built-in Turn by Turn Navigation. This is a no win scenario. People have to realize that MS was severely neutered by that anti-trust law suit. Now they are alot less aggressive & very careful so they are not sued again in this manor. Besides, people forget the 3rd Party apps like Garmin/etc & the fact that Nokia's map app is coming. The Mango Turn by Turn Navigation is nothing more than a way to tie people over till that comes.
Now, don't get me wrong, WP7 & Mango are far from perfect, but MS is working on it. They just posted a job listing to bring better PC/WP7 USB syncing of docs/etc.
Finally! Microsoft planning to connect Windows Phone and the desktop
Molly is supposed to be a power user btw, & she got so many things wrong in her review. I have to wonder if she even tried. It took her 2 weeks to set up WP7, it took me 2 hours tops. She must of never looked in the Office/Pictures Hub as she claims there's no Skydrive integration. Her review is nothing more than a joke. Scott Adams did a better review & he's an "average user," go figure.....
I think the only thing Molly can do now is to read up and post another review along the lines of "When I learnt how to use it" which should correct most of her errors.
Of course, as has been pointed out, if she genuinely made these errors then there must be a reason...(and I'm not going to say she's stupid).