Develop Bugs

Newest / Best windows 7 phone? Worth it?

Hi there,
I am due an upgrade on my Orange contract. In one regard I'm tempted to wait a while to see what new phones are on the horizon - but whether or not I can resist grabbing a phone straight away is another matter.
I was among the first early adopters of android and I'm very pleased with the OS. If I was to stick with it it's quite likely I'd upgrade to the HTC DESIRE HD...
BUT!!! I have been looking at videos demonstrating windows phones and I have to say I've been impressed. I love the UI and everything seems exceptionally fluid - more so than android, which is what I'm on at the moment and up until now has been what I was intending on sticking with.
A few questions I suppose;
Is there multitasking on board?
I'm aware applications are in shorter supply than its competitors - that's not a huge issue to me as long as I have the essentials covered.
How is windows getting on sales wise? Seeing as it's still early I risk going for a platform which could be abandoned by app authors and left stranded and unsuported by websites / media outlets.
So what would you say is the latest and greatest windows 7 phone?
Cheers,
V

Multi-tasking is very limited for the time being. Announcements from microsoft say this will be included in the febuary update.
Windows has said they will back this OS regardless and I believe it. It's certainly doing better than windows mobile and I'm confident that it wont be abandoned.
The best WP7 phone is hard to say. with the OS I'd always go for the biggest screen of maybe a physical keyboard.

I would go for soldered memory (way faster ) like Samsung .
I have a hd7 and it is a real good phone but I would love to play with a Samsung .

z33dev33l said:
Multi-tasking is very limited for the time being. Announcements from microsoft say this will be included in the febuary update.
Windows has said they will back this OS regardless and I believe it. It's certainly doing better than windows mobile and I'm confident that it wont be abandoned.
The best WP7 phone is hard to say. with the OS I'd always go for the biggest screen of maybe a physical keyboard.
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just to supply correction...
multitasking is only capable at present for particular applications including zune (music/video), web (internet explorer), and a few of the other built in things already on the phone. there is no official word from MS as to if/when multitasking will be available, but there have been rumours (not from MS) that they have been working on some form of it, and it could be seen as early as the first update (but highly unlikely).
and now to your questions...
multitasking = covered above
essentials [apps] covered = well it's best if you tell us what your day to day use of your current Android phone is, and we can help in giving you the information available. At present though, the current APIs do limit the development and release of some of the more desired applications, but a lot have come on board, whether that be through MS doing the leg work, or the companies getting excited about it.
windows getting sales = well they (MS) are still "mum" on it (not saying), as it's still early days. i don't believe MS is out to sell as many as iPhone/Android straight out of the gate, but they have said that they're committed to getting this really going (windows mobile had 4 people employed for it's development, windows phone (it's current form) has over 400 people employed for it's development... you do the math). in terms of it being abandoned, i don't see it happening with their level of commitment. as more people get on board, it will encourage others (devs/companies) to as well.
latest/greatest phone = depends on where you live and what you're after. this is the just one of the best things about windows phone. there are several different flavours from the music/entertainment (surround/hd7), to the expandable memory [read up on this first before jumping into it] (focus), to the picture taker (mozart), to the general use (trophy/omnia 7/optimus 7). of course there are plenty more reasons for each model, but these are just examples of how you could see the phones. the experience is close to the same on each device, so you just need to find one that meets your day to day needs/desires.
hopefully this gives you a bit of insight.

z33dev33l said:
Multi-tasking is very limited for the time being. Announcements from microsoft say this will be included in the febuary update.
Windows has said they will back this OS regardless and I believe it. It's certainly doing better than windows mobile and I'm confident that it wont be abandoned.
The best WP7 phone is hard to say. with the OS I'd always go for the biggest screen of maybe a physical keyboard.
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Click to collapse
The multi-tasking will most probably be included in the updates. there is no definitive list of what is going to be included in the first update besides copy and paste.

Thanks so much everyone - all very insightful replies.
I'd be clicking thank if I could!

My take, after getting the Trophy just for having a look at the OS is that it is indeed worth it. I've actually been on of the people moaning about the change of direction and claiming to desert and go to the Android camp. However, even though this is all very new and scary, I think I'm starting to like this new platform.
I will still install Android on my HD2, but my main phone will be the trophy (until I can get a good phone with SAMOLED )

My gf is jealous of my relationship with my Samsung Omnia 7. Enough said. hehe

jhughesy said:
My gf is jealous of my relationship with my Samsung Omnia 7. Enough said. hehe
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i love my HD7, but i wish the Omina 7 was here in the states .

jz9833 said:
i love my HD7, but i wish the Omina 7 was here in the states .
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I have a feeling it will be coming to Verizon eventually. They had the previousl Omnia's and Samsung is going all in on WP7 so I think a LTE Omnia 7 may be in the future.

Omega Ra said:
I have a feeling it will be coming to Verizon eventually. They had the previousl Omnia's and Samsung is going all in on WP7 so I think a LTE Omnia 7 may be in the future.
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I'm not so sure about an LTE WP7 device. The reason why HSPA+ is on the HD7 and Venue Pro is because the processor didnt support it. I believe this will also be the case for LTE.
If it is on LTE then I might be going back to verizon even though I said I'd never do that again

jz9833 said:
I'm not so sure about an LTE WP7 device. The reason why HSPA+ is on the HD7 and Venue Pro is because the processor didnt support it. I believe this will also be the case for LTE.
If it is on LTE then I might be going back to verizon even though I said I'd never do that again
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well perhaps with the Gen 2 Chassis it will have a processor that will support it, I hope at least.
EDIT: though I would be happy with a version of the focus with 16GB and 512MB RAM. (card slot too)

New Handsets

DO we know if anymore new handsets are being released with WP7 something preferably 4G for tmo or sprint

we don't know, but there may be some announcements at CES in a couple of days

I know that the Asus phone is being released pretty soon and the HTC 7 Pro on Sprint (most likely it will be 4G).

canadariot2312 said:
I know that the Asus phone is being released pretty soon and the HTC 7 Pro on Sprint (most likely it will be 4G).
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Highly doubtful it would be 4g, since WP7 currently doesn't support it.

canadariot2312 said:
I know that the Asus phone is being released pretty soon and the HTC 7 Pro on Sprint (most likely it will be 4G).
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I am buying ASUS phone the day its getting released.. its by far the most professional looking WP7 so far.. maybe after Dell Venue Pro..

I regret not buying ASUS P750 every single day of my life.. I went for HP Ipaq 614C which was a miserable choice.

Can anyone tell me what model, what company this Phone is???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr_n-aoohoI

Its the phone they use in a lot of their marketing materials, I don't believe its real.
Omnia looks closest though.

I am guessing that they will releases the Asus phone at MWC, which isn't too far away. Oh and Toshiba is releasing a WP7 phone sometime in the future, maybe an Acer phone.

Well CES came and went and WP7 was barely a blip in the radar besides the update confirmatin coming this month. im starting to become a little dissapointed as MS, to me, is unfortunately not being aggresive enough following WP7 deployment

Yes, CES was a failure for WP7, not much news, very upsetting in my eyes, Android really showed their azz. Putting Wp7 to shame. I was expecting to see something.

what were y'all expecting to see??? The OS just released, a little early for a huge showing at CES.

937dytboi said:
Yes, CES was a failure for WP7, not much news, very upsetting in my eyes, Android really showed their azz. Putting Wp7 to shame. I was expecting to see something.
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It was CES!!
The reason why there was little to no announcements on the mobile front from anyone (even the Android announcements were majority tablet based) was because MWC is just over a month away:
http://www.mobileworldcongress.com/
It is here where they will announce more phones, what's featured in the update to come, new games etc etc.

brummiesteven said:
The reason why there was little to no announcements on the mobile front from anyone (even the Android announcements were majority tablet based) was because MWC is just over a month away:
http://www.mobileworldcongress.com/
It is here where they will announce more phones, what's featured in the update to come, new games etc etc.
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I kind of think tablets were the main focus. Even though AT&T and Verizon released a boatload of phones, not many phones were released for Sprint or T-Mobile and even those phones weren't so hot.
Well, last year they did unveil Windows Phone 7. I would expect something big this year.

brummiesteven said:
It was CES!!
The reason why there was little to no announcements on the mobile front from anyone (even the Android announcements were majority tablet based) was because MWC is just over a month away:
http://www.mobileworldcongress.com/
It is here where they will announce more phones, what's featured in the update to come, new games etc etc.
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Rumors are going around that Samsung could announce the first 4G WP7 at MWC next month. I'm not getting my hopes too high though. This is only a rumor which is based on 'hints' from a Samsung head.
http://wmpoweruser.com/samsung-hinting-at-4g-windows-phone-7-smartphone/
Besides that, I'm expecting Sprint and Verizon to have their WP7s by April and the second generation of handsets sometime between August and November.

I agree with MWC being next month where we'll get more WP news, and maybe new form factors (chassis 2 and 3?)
In the end, M$ needs to push really hard in getting the word out, I don't think much people even know about WP7 and what advantages it has over competing platforms. Once M$ can get more public awareness, will we see OEM's have more confidence in the platform, and produce more handsets.

We will see a lot more at MWC from WP7. CES is about a lot more than just phones, and is really a bad place to for a company like MS to focus on their phone platform. MWC is the proper stage to do that, and they will.
I think we see the big news being CDMA phones; and secondary to that will be the first update (either just released or to be released very soon), hints at the next update(s), and a glimpse of WP7 phones to be released this summer. Anymore, phones have about a 6 month cycle, so by summer the first release of WP7 handsets will be due for updates.

pjcforpres said:
I think we see the big news being CDMA phones;
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I'm not sure why people think MS will announce anything CDMA-related there. MWC is an international event and for the past number of years, almost every single phone announced there was GSM-only (i.e. requires SIM card).
MS could just drop some general info about when CDMA phones will be available, but I seriously doubt they will go into any further details and will instead launch more devices for international markets.

OGCF said:
Besides that, I'm expecting Sprint and Verizon to have their WP7s by April and the second generation of handsets sometime between August and November.
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i really really really really hope that is not the case. Give me something HPSA+ capabilities soooon.

Kontagious said:
i really really really really hope that is not the case. Give me something HPSA+ capabilities soooon.
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This coming update will provide drivers for the new snapdragon chips. The ones that are capable of 14.4 mpbs down. I am guessing we will have HSPA+ really soon.

Will WP7 devices today lose features when upgraded to WP8? I'm worried.

So it is pretty much confirmed that Windows Phone 8 will use the Windows 8 ARM kernel, and Windows Phone 8 will be compatible with apps for Windows Phone 7/7.5. This is true because most WP apps today are written in Silverlight or XNA, which does not care what kernel the OS uses as long as there's an interpreter for the compiled code. Only a few apps use native code that needs to be recompiled for Windows Phone 8.
But what about the hardware drivers and OEM customizations on our phones? OEMs are mandated to use Qualcomm processors, but they can use whatever brand of camera modules and sensors as long as the drivers are there. Special camera modes and functions are provided by the phone OEM which I believe is low level enough, they are written in native code. Special functions not provided by Windows Phone 7 itself, such as DLNA or SRS Sound Enhancer, are also likely to be native code.
How can these native code intended for the Windows CE 6 kernel survive a kernel change to Windows 8 ARM? Will the OEMs rework their stuff to support Windows Phone 8? Or will we lose the OEM features when we upgrade to WP8? Will there be devices stuck in WP7.x forever because crucial hardware drivers (e.g. driver for the camera and sensors) aren't available for WP8?

Who knows. But the only existing rumor that would give an answer to your query is that no single WP7 device will ever be updated to Apollo, so no features will be lost.

vangrieg said:
Who knows. But the only existing rumor that would give an answer to your query is that no single WP7 device will ever be updated to Apollo, so no features will be lost.
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WTF you smoking?
The rumor is that ALL EXISTING windows phone 7 devices including 1st generation will update to apollo. They may however not have all the features if hardware requires them. Tango brings support for lowerend handsets and will update to apollo. If your carrier doesn't roll out the update, look for it in the send cab thread and load it yourself. They are ms stock updates so no worries about a hacked version.

I didn't say that's what I think or believe. There hasn't been any official info on the upgrade path whatsoever. The only information was that WP7 apps would work on WP8. Which, come to think of it, doesn't say anything about current device upgradeability.
The rumor is that there won't be any upgrades. Take it as a rumor, I'm not trying to endorse it in any way, just acknowledging it exists.
I personally would give it some credit but not in the sense the source implies. I'd say he's playing. WP7 devices may never get "Apollo" which is this unicorn WP based on NT kernel, but from the end user perspective all you need is Apollo runtimes ported to WP7. So you'll have most of the WP8 experience on WP7 without running WP8. And of course you'd keep your beloved HTC hub and such stuff on your current device.
But all that is my speculation, not founded on any solid data.

http://wmpoweruser.com/tag/apollo/
The rumors are false. No one has actually said but it would be logical that it would... especially for 2nd gen handsets.

vangrieg said:
I didn't say that's what I think or believe. There hasn't been any official info on the upgrade path whatsoever. The only information was that WP7 apps would work on WP8. Which, come to think of it, doesn't say anything about current device upgradeability.
The rumor is that there won't be any upgrades. Take it as a rumor, I'm not trying to endorse it in any way, just acknowledging it exists.
I personally would give it some credit but not in the sense the source implies. I'd say he's playing. WP7 devices may never get "Apollo" which is this unicorn WP based on NT kernel, but from the end user perspective all you need is Apollo runtimes ported to WP7. So you'll have most of the WP8 experience on WP7 without running WP8. And of course you'd keep your beloved HTC hub and such stuff on your current device.
But all that is my speculation, not founded on any solid data.
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I've been spending half my net time today trying to find an answer for this question. I've resisted putting WP7 on my HD2, but it's slowly dying, and my contract ends in a couple of months, so I'm researching the best options now, only to find that I may yet again be buying another obsolete OS as WP8 is due in Q4. My problem is to buy the phone with the best hardware, which isn't much different to the lowest spec in WP7, and then upgrade the OS when it's released, or to buy a 1st gen phone cheap on a shorter contract so that my time on WP7 is limited and I can get a new WP8 phone a while later. Hopefully MS will announce something soon...
WMPoweruser has these pages-
We [MS]were pretty clear on this. Any app built today will run on next major Windows Phone version.
microsoft-needs-to-reassure-windows-phone-7-buyers-their-phones-are-upgradable
do not base a whole rumour on only something Eldar say
windows-phone-roadmap

because of the newer phones coming out though prolly what i would do is pick up a cheap surround or focus off ebay to get you buy (they are less then 100.00) and use your upgrade on a premium phone on release. Apollo is bringing multicore phones so you won't see them until then since pre-apollo doesn't support them. Once it's released, if you 1st gen makes it, sell it and you'll get your 100 bucks back with apollo already on it. If it doesn't, well you still haven't used your upgrade so you can get a new phone at a low cost with contract renewal.

bbobeckyj said:
I've resisted putting WP7 on my HD2, but it's slowly dying, and my contract ends in a couple of months, so I'm researching the best options now, only to find that I may yet again be buying another obsolete OS as WP8 is due in Q4.
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Also, remember that Mobile World Congress runs from 27 February to 1 March. There will probably be more information coming out around that time.
Here's another article (published in November) from a former Microsoft distinguished engineer.
http://hal2020.com/2011/11/04/windows-phone-8-and-windows-8-cousins-or-siblings/
His opinion was:
It is likely WP8 will run on first generation WP phones, and near certain it will work on the second generation (those that initially ship with) WP7.5 Microsoft wants a reputation of being as end-user friendly as Apple and so will not drop updates on older phones until their is a technological reason to do so. Plus it isn’t likely to want to piss people off who are sill in a 2-year contract period, which will be the case with most of the installed base. So I don’t see WP8 as a reason to wait. Now if you already have a first gen device (e.g., Samsung Focus) you might want to skip the second gen (e.g., Focus S) and see what happens next summer or fall.
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At the moment, I haven't seen any compelling evidence about WP8 upgrades one way or the other.

I don't think they will even have a beta for it this year, i would say they would push it out by this time next year, maybe we will get something from MIX13?

ROCOAFZ said:
because of the newer phones coming out though prolly what i would do is pick up a cheap surround or focus off ebay to get you buy (they are less then 100.00) and use your upgrade on a premium phone on release. Apollo is bringing multicore phones so you won't see them until then since pre-apollo doesn't support them. Once it's released, if you 1st gen makes it, sell it and you'll get your 100 bucks back with apollo already on it. If it doesn't, well you still haven't used your upgrade so you can get a new phone at a low cost with contract renewal.
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No such luck, nothing is going that cheaply in England, and the shortest contract on a new phone is for 18 months. I've got about 2 months to go, hopefully we'll know more by then, and the Titan 2 and Lumia 900 are due out soon after that...

The first Gen devices will be updated, just like the iPhone 3GS is still updated (released in 2009 and just got iOS5).

prohibido_por_la_ley said:
The first Gen devices will be updated, just like the iPhone 3GS is still updated (released in 2009 and just got iOS5).
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Do you know this for a fact, or is it just what you think will happen?
If the former, do you have a source?
If the latter, I would like to agree, and my gut feeling is the same. But this being microsoft you can't assume too much.

bbobeckyj said:
Do you know this for a fact, or is it just what you think will happen?
If the former, do you have a source?
If the latter, I would like to agree, and my gut feeling is the same. But this being microsoft you can't assume too much.
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you folks have craigslist ( or similar local for-sale listings ?) in england ? that's where i buy and sell my handsets. generally they're between 1/2 to 1/4 of the new price at a store, and you have hands-on experience before handing off the cash.
anyway, as to the update rumors and assumptions... i wouldn't trust any of them until it's in hand. not one.

ohgood said:
you folks have craigslist ( or similar local for-sale listings ?) in england ? that's where i buy and sell my handsets. generally they're between 1/2 to 1/4 of the new price at a store, and you have hands-on experience before handing off the cash.
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We do have craigslist, but it's not anywhere near the same size as the US site, it's next to useless outside of the major urban areas like London. eBay is more popular and even that has very few WP7 items for sale. The ones on sale are still quite expensive, I'm watching less than ten, all first gen, and I expect all will end at well over £100. There are also not many different models, a few HD7s, one or two others, but most are not listed. Also the sim only contracts are barely cheaper them the ones with the phones, the major difference is that the contracts are shorter. Do that negates the cost savings from buying second hand.

At the very list 2nd Gen devices (ship with Mango) will get a one form of the update. Can't say i'm as sure about 1st Gen devices though. However i'd imagine MS wants to reward their loyal users (1st Gen owners) so they may also get a toned down version of the update too.

bbobeckyj said:
We do have craigslist, but it's not anywhere near the same size as the US site, it's next to useless outside of the major urban areas like London. eBay is more popular and even that has very few WP7 items for sale. The ones on sale are still quite expensive, I'm watching less than ten, all first gen, and I expect all will end at well over £100. There are also not many different models, a few HD7s, one or two others, but most are not listed. Also the sim only contracts are barely cheaper them the ones with the phones, the major difference is that the contracts are shorter. Do that negates the cost savings from buying second hand.
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Understood, good info here- thanked

I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!

XxAndrexX said:
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
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don't worry, there is no benefit to doing that. all it would do is cause terribly bad publicity, and millions of customer dissupport calls.

XxAndrexX said:
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
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there already is a form of this, but its only triggered when it's detected that WP is being installed on a device it wasn't designed for. Like an android or WM device for example and the very early builds did encounter it.

A major MAJOR advantage WP7 has over Android is not being fragmented. Why would they throw that away? That seems stupid.
Sent from my SGH-I897

Rumors, Lies, Truth and Sorcery: Gizmodo: Every Windows Phone Will Get Windows 8

http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...

Hopefully because I just bought a Lumia 800 to change my trophy.

I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....

I agree wholeheartedly.
I'd even be happy if older devices got a "subset" of WP8, to be honest. However, with that said, I'm still using my first gen Samsung Focus, it's gotten nothing but faster and more feature complete with each update, and it's been my intention all along to grab a WP8 native devices when they come out, so I'll be OK either way.
One thing I'm glad for: even if WP7 first generation devices don't wind up with an upgrade, Microsoft has been very conscientious about making each update trimmer and faster than the one before, so people "stuck" with WP7 aren't going to be screwed over by a crappy software update that cripples their device, a la Apple with the iOS4/iPhone 3G debacle. And honestly, if the first gen WP8 devices aren't up to what I expect, well, then I'm happy to keep using my first generation device until they do get their. I'm hoping to hell that all the secrecy surrounding WP8 means that it'll be a mind blowing spec, with a full-bore implementation of TellMe, integrated Kinect camera and mic array, etc. Time will tell!
DavidinCT said:
I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....
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Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: ‏@thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable

magicsquid said:
Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: ‏@thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable
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And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.

http://m.gizmodo.com/5903416/current-windows-phones-may-not-be-getting-upgraded-after-all
So. No. I'll have to change my thread title. Ah. Rumors.

dtboos said:
And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah there are already two versions of Tango in the pipeline, the one going on the 256MB devices and the one that's a refresh for Mango. So why not two Apollo's.

Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.

mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple design his own hardware.

mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
& in his definition of fragmentation, Apple is too. There will always be fragmentation when you add new features/enhance/mature an OS. The problem with fragmentation that MS was talking about is that what you can do on an Android is wholly dependent on the device you have. My ex-roommates have non top of the line Androids & they are total garbage. You have no flash support, no hotspot support, it lags to all hell (ui takes seconds to respond to touch input)/etc. All WP7's look the same & perform almost the same. This is the kind of fragmentation MS was talking about. How a Top tier Android could have all these cool features & be fast & smooth while low end devices are garbage.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

lqaddict said:
Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, 5 phones, but second generation got 3 years of support. That's remarkable, lets admit. I dont like iPhone, but I envy how Apple just go, release their updates without carriers crying around, at the same time to everyone. Lets give them some credit here.
And fragmentation is fragmentation. I never doubt my 3 months old iPhone wouldnt be updated. My Lumia, otherwise.. This silence of MS is making me anxious.
Just think, why MS would keep in secret something like "the second generation will be updated"?! Makes no sense. It's not marketing strategy, it's worse for them with all those rumors.
And everytime someone ask one of the team, they avoid the direct answer.
I had a HTC Trophy, and 3 months ago bought a Lumia 800. I regret that for now.

drupad2drupad said:
No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry that a link to a picture of something resembling a phone screen with Chinese characters and a bunch of speculation in English text underneath.
People throw fragmentation all over the Android world, yet turn blind eye to things like Bing non-support in markets where MSFT launched their product, etc.
Simply put, there are too many excuses surrounding this platform, and MSFT seem to play that card pretty well with 90% satisfaction rate as the one of few statistics thrown around.
http://andrewtechhelp.com/andrews-t...feature-availability-matrix-the-mango-edition
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

bmstrong said:
http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We heard this about the HTC HD2 and moving to Windows 7.
Safety Notice:
DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH
But still, even if 8 isn't officially released, you can put money on a port. Gotta love XDA.
EDITED: NOT HAPPENING.

If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2

narta said:
If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.

oldpueblo said:
Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's wrong that MSFT is allowing such harmful speculation as to the support of previous generation devices. Their silence is allowing people to get in a tizzy over what could be absolutely nothing. I met someone last month at a dinner party who works at MSFT and said that Apollo runs beautifully on the Lumia 900.
I find flaw with the article you linked when it said...
"Second, the experience would be terrible; Windows Phone 8 is based on Windows 8, not Windows Phone 7.x, and requires headier, higher-end hardware with two or more core processors."
This is in direct opposition to the entire purpose of the Tango release to allow for lower-end hardware. Why would MSFT make an effort to allow for more affordable devices if the WP8 platform won't work on them in the future? This means that lower-end devices will never exist on WP8 until dual core becomes cheap.
Rather, what I think this article gets wrong is that WP8 does not require dual core, but allows for it to exist in the first place.
WP7 has a high floor and a low ceiling. Tango lowered the floor and Apollo will be raising the ceiling. Whether we'll get the update is up in the air, but I'm personally anticipating it to happen.
MSFT does need to stop being so secretive though. It's hard to build and keep a fanbase under the current business model.

Lumia owner cheated and angry.

Of the lumia 900 owners, how many of you feel cheated and angry over how Microsoft is handling WP8.
1. Yes
2. No

A little cheated. Glad MS tried with 7.8 but I'm just worried about how that will fare down the line with 22 months left on my contract. Don't think I'll be waiting to find out.

pgsxdjp said:
A little cheated. Glad MS tried with 7.8 but I'm just worried about how that will fare down the line with 22 months left on my contract. Don't think I'll be waiting to find out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe it's a very good point for the class action against MS and AT&T. Just keep googling for that and be ready to join

Won my lumia 900, and I planed to get an updated wp8 device anyway, so, to answer your question, no I don't feel cheated. I might be angry at myself anyway for buying one knowing dual core was coming in a few months (if I had signed a contract)

Considering all the features coming for WP8 and 7.8 haven't been announced yet, I don't feel cheated at all. I imagine more is coming in 7.8 than they stated today. Joe Belfiore was very specific that they have MANY great things to talk about with consumer features, but that wasn't the point of the conference today.

I'll feel pretty cheated if the only features WP7.8 gets is the new start screen...

pgsxdjp said:
A little cheated. Glad MS tried with 7.8 but I'm just worried about how that will fare down the line with 22 months left on my contract. Don't think I'll be waiting to find out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im going to sell.

The technoweenie in me wants to buy a WP8 when it comes out, but the realistic human in me feels cheated...
I just bought the Lumia 900, and to hear that a new version of the OS is coming out soon and that the product I just bought will be un-supported and development ceased (for the most part) pisses me off...
I'm pissed off enough that I'm still waiting for a purple screen fix, and now this?

If I were a Lumia owner I'd definitely feel cheated.
Looks like the Lumia 900 is going to be the Galaxy S+ of the Windows world.
Thrown to the market and 2 months afterwards you got outdated software because the manufacturer never planned to provide updates.
Not receiving updates seems to get normal in the mobile industry in some way.
This would be the point to switch to Android for me, but I'm not a big WP7 fan I have to admit.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA

land.apfel said:
If I were a Lumia owner I'd definitely feel cheated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? We don't even know the Windows Phone 7.8 features?
land.apfel said:
Thrown to the market and 2 months afterwards you got outdated software because the manufacturer never planned to provide updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We've received two manufacturer updates already. And there have been at least two announced future updates... Tango and Windows Phone 7.8.
dtboos said:
Considering all the features coming for WP8 and 7.8 haven't been announced yet, I don't feel cheated at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is an interesting concept. So you think we should actually wait and see what updated features we will be getting before criticizing them? Great idea!
gbjohnson said:
Of the lumia 900 owners, how many of you feel cheated and angry over how Microsoft is handling WP8.
1. Yes
2. No
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once all Windows Phone 8 and 7.8 are out why don't you ask this question and add a poll to your thread? Make it a good poll with at least one option that says I'm satisfied.

There is still a chance that Nokia will provide WP8 on the Lumia 800/900 isn't there? I wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet.
Before anyone starts ranting about the announcement, Nokia is not Microsoft. Stop, think. Avoid replying anyway.

at45 said:
There is still a chance that Nokia will provide WP8 on the Lumia 800/900 isn't there? I wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet.
Before anyone starts ranting about the announcement, Nokia is not Microsoft. Stop, think. Avoid replying anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about the Hardware requirements. I haven't watched the keynote, but I don't think they've given a NFC requirement for all phones. Interesting thought. I guess it could happen. I don't think it will, although it would be nice, of course. Then again, maybe WP7.8 will be better than thought. Who knows?

I don't understand what it is people think they will be missing. WP8 brings support for dual core, high def screens, and NFC hardware. Does your phone have any of that? No. So you wouldn't be able to enjoy those features anyway even if WP8 did run on your phone.
Ok so we may not get the true multi tasking and Skype running in the background - we don't actually know yet - but did you buy your phone only on the basis that you would definitely get that one day? Is your phone suddenly going to stop working the day WP8 comes out? Are app developers all suddenly going to abandon the installed base of users for a new OS that doesn't have one yet?

When I got my Lumia two weeks ago, I knew that there was Skype coming with "serious" integration and VoIP API for others. I also knew that Microsoft bought Skype so I was expecting it.
At least that the Lumia 800 was for free.

OndraSter said:
When I got my Lumia two weeks ago, I knew that there was Skype coming with "serious" integration and VoIP API for others. I also knew that Microsoft bought Skype so I was expecting it.
At least that the Lumia 800 was for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its always been said that skype couldnt work on WP7 due to the way the OS operates and while its not great im still happy they released some sort of app rather then not bother at all

sensboston said:
I believe it's a very good point for the class action against MS and AT&T. Just keep googling for that and be ready to join
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't be serious?!

Zero. Give thanks that you get 7.8. Try to image Android users still stuck on Froyo or Gingerbread. Or 3GS or iPhone 4 users moving to iOS6.
Get over it and move to the future. 8 looks to be a fantastic competitor to iOS and Android.

bmstrong said:
Zero. Give thanks that you get 7.8. Try to image Android users still stuck on Froyo or Gingerbread. Or 3GS or iPhone 4 users moving to iOS6.
Get over it and move to the future. 8 looks to be a fantastic competitor to iOS and Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is different. The Lumia is a flagship that just came out. I'm amazed at how some of you are okay with this.
"Get over it and move to the future."?
Wtf man, what about all the people who got this on contract? You expect them to just "move to the future" and buy a new device off contract this early on?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium

LOL... I think Nokia gonna do something to help out the customer who did bought the Lumia product recently... I got what you mean...
Da, it sucks to register for a device for 2 years and then stuck with it (that is why i never sign the damn contract). But i believe Windows Phone 7.8 is actually Windows Phone 8 BUT without all the functions that require the physical hardware to handle.
Time will tell. Personally, i don't feel any lost, i changed phone almost every holiday season of the year. 2010 = First Windows Phone (HD7), 2011 = Mango Windows Phone (Eternity) , 2012 = Windows Phone 8. I am curious about what HTC has to offer for us.

redwhiteandblue said:
I don't understand what it is people think they will be missing. WP8 brings support for dual core, high def screens, and NFC hardware. Does your phone have any of that? No. So you wouldn't be able to enjoy those features anyway even if WP8 did run on your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you may have just described Microsoft's reason for not updating existing phones i.e. not because they are too old or too slow but because they won't benefit enough from the new features to justify the investment.
"Microsoft’s Greg Sullivan revealed the reasons behind the company’s choice not to offer a direct upgrade from Windows Phone 7.x to Windows Phone 8.
Describing some of the latest hardware changes in Windows Phone 8, that we outline here, Sullivan explained that "the nature of the investment [in Windows Phone 8] is primarily in areas that are not exploitable by existing hardware." Windows Phone 8 introduces support for multi-core processors, amongst other things, so the "Lumia 900 getting support for using dual-core or NFC doesn't mean a lot," says Sullivan, "because it doesn't have the hardware to take advantage of that." Microsoft decided to focus its efforts on Windows Phone 8 to make it as good as it possibly could. "To do the work to bring all of those elements to a platform that can't exploit them wasn't necessarily the most efficient use of resource," explains Sullivan."
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