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Applications that were made for Windows Mobile 6 are compatible with Windows Phone 7 Series. The interface of the new mobile operating system has been changed though, so the user interface for these applications will have to be changed as well.
"So there is no reason why programs written for Windows Mobile 6 cannot run on the new version of the OS", said Maarten Sonneveld of Microsoft Netherlands to Tweakers.net. "The interface is complete different though, so the applications will have to be changed somewhat before being ready for Windows Phone 7 Series".
It is still unclear how developers can port their user interfaces to the new version of Windows Mobile. Microsoft will only disclose how applications can be developed and distributed at their developer event Mix2010.
Microsoft announced it’s new OS on Monday afternoon at the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. The OS is primarily aimed at synchronisation and integration with Microsft-services like Windows Live, Bing, Zune and Xbox Live. Aside from those Windows Phone 7 Series can also synchronise with Google-accounts and facebook.
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Source
So in summary, while none of the current applications will run on it, the underlying non-UI APIs will be compatible. So if understand correctly, porting would just a case of redeveloping the UI then recompiling, rather than starting completely from scratch. This acts to filter out apps with no more developer support, and promote a consistent UI.
Doesn't sound too bad to me.
That might explain why TomTom was seen on that screenshot of WP7 running on the HD2 (although, it could be a fake!). TomTom takes control of the screen, so uses no WM interface elements. So, it might be able to run full-screen apps/games without changes.
But, who knows...
elyl said:
That might explain why TomTom was seen on that screenshot of WP7 running on the HD2 (although, it could be a fake!). TomTom takes control of the screen, so uses no WM interface elements. So, it might be able to run full-screen apps/games without changes.
But, who knows...
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I was just thinking the same except if you use the included .net controls, there's no reason that the OS couldn't just reskin them automatically to be at least somewhat more in line with the WP7 styling.
This would be excellent if it's true - and I can't see why it wouldn't be. The UI may be new but why throw away a perfectly good underlying core.
What would also be ideal is if the "multi-tasking" involved an app being set to pause in the background by default, but with a "keep me running" API call available for apps that needed it. I'm sure most apps hog resourses not because they need to but because the developer hasn't really thought about how the rest of the device performs when his app has been left running.
Makes sense, WindowsCE core is still the same
Zaim2 said:
Applications that were made for Windows Mobile 6 are compatible with Windows Phone 7 Series
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Absolutely wrong statement due to incorrect translation. Original: "De interface van Windows Phone 7 Series is totaal anders, waardoor er in elk geval iets aan de applicaties moet gebeuren voordat ze geschikt zijn voor Windows Phone 7 Series"
Even google translates it correctly:
"The interface of Windows 7 Phone Series is different, which in any case something should happen to the applications before they are suitable for Windows 7 Phone Series".
We have some "ms confidential" documentation dated January 2010 that proves that none of the existing apps would be compatible with WinPhone7. And the only programming suite that is available to "generic" application-writers is Silverlight+XNA. Native apps are prohibited. Only OEMs and MO are allowed to create them (and even they have a set of limitations).
We would not have even source code compatibility - as all our C++ apps have to be converted to .NET.
mamaich said:
We have some "ms confidential" documentation dated January 2010...
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What the heck? And you say that only now? What else is in there? Any word about how background tasks are handled? Please give us some more information, or maybe, can you upload that documentation?
freyberry said:
maybe, can you upload that documentation?
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Obviously I cannot. As it would reveal the person who provided it.
Just to prove that such info really exists - see attached screenshots.
I really hope that the community would force MS to change such a dumb idea to limit independent software vendors to create only managed apps. Prohibiting C++ as a developing language, and "hiding" Windows API from programmer would force lots of developers to abandon this platform. The main reason of success of old WinMobile OSes was the ability to recompile "desktop" apps to WinMobile with just a minor set of changes (ANSI->Unicode + some interface changes).
P.S. I don't read PMs.
Obviously I cannot. As it would reveal the person who provided it.
Just to prove that such info really exists - see attached screenshots.
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Well, there's certainly a way to remove that information. But anyway, what about background tasks? Are third party applications allowed to run in the background?
mamaich said:
Obviously I cannot. As it would reveal the person who provided it.
Just to prove that such info really exists - see attached screenshots.
I really hope that the community would force MS to change such a dumb idea to limit independent software vendors to create only managed apps. Prohibiting C++ as a developing language, and "hiding" Windows API from programmer would force lots of developers to abandon this platform. The main reason of success of old WinMobile OSes was the ability to recompile "desktop" apps to WinMobile with just a minor set of changes (ANSI->Unicode + some interface changes).
P.S. I don't read PMs.
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Wow, I can't believe noone has picked up on this
freyberry said:
Are third party applications allowed to run in the background?
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OS itself supports multitasking, see attach. But "Windows Phone OS 7.0 Application Platform" that we'll be forced to use to create apps may force our application to be paused in background. I never programmed Silverlight and XNA and can't tell how multitatsking is made in them.
WinPhone 7 == Zune Phone. Both are based on CE kernel, and they should have lots of common in implementation of multitasking, clipboard, etc.
OS itself supports multitasking, see attach. But "Windows Phone OS 7.0 Application Platform" that we'll be forced to use to create apps may force our application to be paused in background.
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The question is, can we write applications that are not automatically suspended when sent to the background? What are the policies on this?
It says multiple processes can run at the same time, but it does not say whether they get suspended automatically.
Is there any info on this? Maybe in the "Scheduling" section?
I’m not sure this is a big deal. I can see them saying a lot of native C++ apps may have compatibility issues. I could go either way on it with the limited amount of information I have on this. I’ll have a better opinion at and after MIX
Note that this could be old documentation, and it’s pretty annoying you're leaking confidential documentation. Personally, I hope you get into trouble for breaking your contract - they trust you and you're posting it? Yuck.
To be fair, though, every app we’ve written has been managed, and Microsoft hasn't t said P/Invoking is verboten, so what would be the problem?
There’s probably exceptions for games and the like, and the documents you've scanned even say a waiver is available to use the Native APIs. So I don’t know what you're complaining about…
Microsoft's dev teams have been listening to developers - why not get them to chime in and also give them a chance to hear you. Posting confidential Microsoft documents, assuming those are real, is not the way to get them to listen
Best,
-Auri
freyberry said:
The question is, can we write applications that are not automatically suspended when sent to the background? What are the policies on this?
It says multiple processes can run at the same time, but it does not say whether they get suspended automatically.
Is there any info on this? Maybe in the "Scheduling" section?
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Personally, I like Android's approach to this, where Services can run in the background, but UI apps are allowed to be "put to sleep" while other apps run. But then again, we may see a lot of that come into play come MIX and "Answer Time"
Best,
-Auri
Well, I am now both excited and nervous -I think I will just cool my jets until MIX10 and just enjoy the eye candy for now. At worst - if the interface is nice, but the core is crap I am sure some of the boys here at xda will make us an inteface port for 6.5.x that acts and looks like the new hotness with the old compatibility. - lets see MIX
AuriRahimzadeh said:
Note that this could be old documentation, and it’s pretty annoying you're leaking confidential documentation.
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Docs are dated 2010.
I'm not leaking the documentation. I'm sharing the information that anyway would be opened in some days, maybe weeks.
And screens are posted here just as a confirmation of my words. You may think that these pics come from my mind and are made with photoshop - it is your opinion.
I really think that WinPhone 7 would be a failure similar to desktop Vista. Of cause some people would like it, but most would stay on WM 6.x and wait for the next version.
Regarding P/Invoke. As far as I've seen, "unsafe" operations are prohibited in XNA and Silverlight. Otherwise we would be able to call coredll funcs and run native apps (and do everything else that is allowed in our chamber).
mamaich said:
Docs are dated 2010.
I'm not leaking the documentation. I'm sharing the information that anyway would be opened in some days, maybe weeks.
And screens are posted here just as a confirmation of my words. You may think that these pics come from my mind and are made with photoshop - it is your opinion.
I really think that WinPhone 7 would be a failure similar to desktop Vista. Of cause some people would like it, but most would stay on WM 6.x and wait for the next version.
Regarding P/Invoke. As far as I've seen, "unsafe" operations are prohibited in XNA and Silverlight. Otherwise we would be able to call coredll funcs and run native apps (and do everything else that is allowed in our chamber).
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Mamaich any though of a WP7 ce6.0 bsp for all the current cortex A8 devices running on a ce5.2 bsp, will the new kernel support them natively or will extensive bsp/bootloader hacking be required?
P/invoke surely is a limitation of .NET CF, rather than Silverlight/XNA libraries?
I think it would be a bit stupid to remove P/Invoking, because it's just not realistic to rely on .NETCF alone which has soooo much stuff stripped out to minimize size.
Will we be seeing a whole new .NETCF so soon after 3.5? I highly doubt it...Unless MS have been working overtime the past year
Shame, time to stop mobile development altogether if this is true. When we developers are considered as dumb earning pipes for companies who in their arrogant big ways think they have all the wisdom, and app developers only make annoying software that makes their precious leaky OS'es crash, it's time to move on. i would have been talking about IPhone, Android etc, but sadly we must add Microsoft to the list also.
Then there's the $1195,- and airplane tickets we have to pay to get to the Mix2010 in oder to maybe maybe get to be a "partner" with access to limited native API's (probably only reserved for the big companies) and don't even bother talking about giving away 30% of our earnings to a company that last year made how many billions of profits was it ?
Time to start an XDA OS based on REAL Linux maybe ? NVidia have a nice dev-board available for $400,- with Tegra on it. That's what I call developer friendly.
Cheers !
Regardless of how this will play out, I'm pretty sure of two things:
1. Closing down the OS may be beneficial for the majority of users by bringing stability, ease of use, UI consistency, etc. Even though I don't like it.
2. Because the OS itself is multitasking, any and all restrictions may be hacked around, and a "jailbreak" will be possible.
Depending on how this whole thing will be implemented, jailbreaking and using "illegal" apps may be a major PITA (think iPhone 3GS/tethered jailbreak) or as easy as a few registry tweaks/installing additional certs/whatever. If Apple didn't chase JB with every update it would be a rather good platform for both mainstream "ordinary" users and those who want rather unusual things from their phones.
We'll have to wait and see how it evolves really to make a final judgment.
May be of interest in the context of WM7.
http://www.zuneboards.com/?p=vB50442
http://www.zuneboards.com/forums/zune-news/50442-zune-hd-hacked-well-previous-zune-models.html
http://zunedevwiki.org/wiki/
Zune and WP7 are entirely different, so this won't translate directly, but nonetheless very exciting as a Zune HD 32GB owner!
If something similar could happen on WP7, it might allow more open app development.
yay!! now we might start to see some interesting apps or hacks come along now
WP7 desperately need a 3g to wifi tethering app like myfi. I used to have an iphone but switched WP7 and now I need a 'myfi' like app badly.
Can someone some building this app ASAP.
at present it's not possible to even build one as there aren't any APIs for it. I'm sure this has been asked quite a few times on this forum already... please search... rather than just continually asking what people deem as a common requirement. also search the pinned threads as they're a good place to start for missing functionality...
There are APIs. Samsung phones can tether so yh APIs are there. WP7 is just CE with some changes/additions. Microsoft just isn't allowing access to the APIs...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
I would think that OEMs have a different set of APIs which provide them with native capabilities. I doubt the OEMs are writting their apps in just C# otherwise MS would have released those APIs as well.
also to note, those phones that can tether is done through the diagnostics, which would imply that they should be already in all windows phones and just dormant. i highly doubt it's specific to samsung phones. it may be that we only know how to do it with samsung phones now.
The Gate Keeper said:
I would think that OEMs have a different set of APIs which provide them with native capabilities. I doubt the OEMs are writting their apps in just C# otherwise MS would have released those APIs as well.
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That's my point. The APIs exist, as does the base Windows CE system.
We just don't have the development tools nor do we have access to that level of the system to be able to write those applications ourselves.
We're limited to sandboxed Silverlight-based applications, but Microsoft and OEMs can use Native Code and APIs we don't have access to.
They exist, we just don't have access to them. Apple does the same thing with iOS.
Thanks for agreeing with me, though
also to note, those phones that can tether is done through the diagnostics, which would imply that they should be already in all windows phones and just dormant. i highly doubt it's specific to samsung phones. it may be that we only know how to do it with samsung phones now.
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Which also means WP7 supports tethering. The functionality just isn't exposed to users in the general user interface, that is why you have to dig for it. The same thing is true for Sideloading XAPs, among other things.
It's there. The OS is totally capable of it. WP7 did, in fact, inherit a ton of functionality from Windows Mobile. The difference is that the new UI doesn't expose it to the user, and applications (and the system) are managed in a totally different way.
There's a huge difference between "does not exist" and "exists, but functionality is not exposed in the UI."
Windows on a PC can access drives, etc. by device name, but that is not exposed in the UI - for example. The same is true for many features in WP7 that are there by virtue of it being based on CE and tied (although Microsoft would want you to think differently) to Windows Mobile. They just chose not to expose this functionality.
Not saying it's totalyl based on WM, since that's obviously untrue. If that was the case stuff like full Exchange support, Video support for MMS, etc. would be working.
But the fact that this stuff is there and they're dragging their feet to allow users to use it is what's keeping lots of users off of WP7 at the moment. It's taking them too long to make changes that seem too simple... Maybe for the sake of security, I don't know. They haven't really been transparent with early adopters, IMO.
EDIT: Also, you can call Native Code from managed languages (C#, VB.NET, Java, etc.), so I'm pretty sure they are writing their apps in C# and only calling native code/libraries when they need to. Writing it in straight C/C++ is [potentially] more dangerous than using a Managed Language with Interop. I can't see Microsoft going for that.
I just installed Google+ on iPhone, but what I am truly wanting is G+ for my WP7. Anyone with news?
Seeing as the mobile webpage says "Also available on the Android Market and coming soon to the iTunes App Store" I wouldn't get my hopes up for a WP7 app anytime soon.
Is it out for iPhone?
vetvito said:
Is it out for iPhone?
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Yeah, just came out today...or late yesterday. As soon as I read it I installed it on my iPhone.
MartyLK said:
I just installed Google+ on iPhone, but what I am truly wanting is G+ for my WP7. Anyone with news?
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it will never happen, my opinion is based on the fact that they list windows mobile as supported, and wp7 is not listed, they have not released google maps, and they have impeded Microsoft from releasing a better youtube app
revrak said:
it will never happen, my opinion is based on the fact that they list windows mobile as supported, and wp7 is not listed, they have not released google maps, and they have impeded Microsoft from releasing a better youtube app
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Yeah, seems Google dislikes MS more than Apple. Considering MS is making Google pay royalties, maybe that is why.
My guess is, that the iOS market is simply too big not to support, whereas the minor userbase of WP7 is "neglectable" for google.
revrak said:
it will never happen, my opinion is based on the fact that they list windows mobile as supported, and wp7 is not listed, they have not released google maps, and they have impeded Microsoft from releasing a better youtube app
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Well...that's one reason I say Google will have its competitors by the 'nads because of G+ becoming the dominant social site. People will want and need it on their phones and if their phones don't have it or will get it, people will adopt a new phone system.
MS needs to be really, really nice to Google so they can get G+. It is important. MS doesn't have the infrastructure enough to make their own social site like Google has.
Once G+ is "live", they'll probably have APIs available that allow third party developers to code G+ apps, though.
Doesn't Microsoft own or partner with FB?
Anywho my thoughts. I think Google and Apple have been secretly working together for a long time. Minus the lawsuits, I think competitively they work together. Or is it that Apple uses Google as it search engine? Anywho, I'm rambling.
Woo hoo let's spout completely uninformed rubbish about google hating wp7 because they put priority on the two most used smartphone platforms first!
From the horse's mouth: https://plus.google.com/10624605617...b9Pdh#106246056177889976095/posts/i528uHb9Pdh
Look at point 6
vetvito said:
Doesn't Microsoft own or partner with FB?
Anywho my thoughts. I think Google and Apple have been secretly working together for a long time. Minus the lawsuits, I think competitively they work together. Or is it that Apple uses Google as it search engine? Anywho, I'm rambling.
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From my experience Apple uses Yahoo as the default or main search engine in iOS. You can select Google or Bing as well. I switch mine to Google.
quactaur said:
Woo hoo let's spout completely uninformed rubbish about google hating wp7 because they put priority on the two most used smartphone platforms first!
From the horse's mouth: https://plus.google.com/10624605617...b9Pdh#106246056177889976095/posts/i528uHb9Pdh
Look at point 6
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What's your major malfunction, pal. Nobody is spouting anything except you. I never said Google hated WP7. From *history* and from many reports Google gives MS a hard time and hinders them.
This is all I will say to you because I just have no room in life any more for people who want to start trouble and cause problems. From this point on you will be permanently ignored.
quactaur said:
Woo hoo let's spout completely uninformed rubbish about google hating wp7 because they put priority on the two most used smartphone platforms first!
From the horse's mouth: https://plus.google.com/10624605617...b9Pdh#106246056177889976095/posts/i528uHb9Pdh
Look at point 6
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That's an unofficial blog. That list was in the news last week or so, and its not a list compiled by Google to say they are working on those items. A Google developer posted something on his blog about Google+, and a bunch of people commented on it and left him suggestions, and so the developer simply compiled the most popular suggestions (which is that list). No one said those things would ever be worked on.
Nothing official, and considering Google has not shown any interest in Windows Phone 7, I don't see anything in the near future.
G+ does work on the current IE version but in a basic mobile format
you need to go to https://m.google.com/app/plus
DJRedLine said:
G+ does work on the current IE version but in a basic mobile format
you need to go to https://m.google.com/app/plus
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Ohh...sweet! That'll do, till WP7 gets an app.
Thanks much
DJRedLine said:
G+ does work on the current IE version but in a basic mobile format
you need to go to https://m.google.com/app/plus
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The mobile page is too limited, you could also use the full page. It works perfectly fine.
revrak said:
it will never happen, my opinion is based on the fact that they list windows mobile as supported, and wp7 is not listed, they have not released google maps, and they have impeded Microsoft from releasing a better youtube app
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They will eventually release one because a social network has to have broad platform support to succeed, and with the App-Centric nature of modern smartphone OSes they cannot depend on a browser. People are starting to demand stuff like PUSH notifications and in-app chat functionality and a Browser is clearly inferior to an app when it comes to delivering that type of functionality.
N8ter said:
They will eventually release one because a social network has to have broad platform support to succeed, and with the App-Centric nature of modern smartphone OSes they cannot depend on a browser. People are starting to demand stuff like PUSH notifications and in-app chat functionality and a Browser is clearly inferior to an app when it comes to delivering that type of functionality.
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Fortunately for right now, saving the page as a favorite and then pinning it to the start screen almost satisfies. The thing lacking, as you say, is push notes.
another thread about this useless wannabe Facebook, google only did this to get back at FB for rejecting them and of course to try to gain this ridiculous monopoly over the world. what's worse? they don't even give a **** about peoples privacy and safety.
Namaste my fellow developers.
I am a rather young developer, who started off with Android and have developed about 10-15 apps till today out of which 2 are up on Google Play.
Just to increase my knowledge and sector I was planning to make a shift into web apps. I did learn Java specifically for Android but want to get my hands on the other platforms as well. So my questions, Sirs and Madams, are:
1.Technically, How is Android and Web Apps different?
2.Should I make the transition?
3.How do i start? (some resources would be helpful)
All and Every feedback would be appreciated. Thank YOU!
hi karantrehan, my two cents on the matter
1. you can think of a web app as a web site running inside an Android Webview, with all its files (html, images, javascripts, css, ...) bundled inside the app. The enclosing app just launches an Activity with a webview, everything else is done by html and javascript (although you can bind java code to javascript function to exploit Android's APIs).
2. It depends: I think web apps are a viable choice in two situations:
you're a web developer that want to build an app without having to learn Android
you want to build a cross-platform app, reaching Android, iOS, WP without learning every single language
Otherwise, I would not advise it, I don't see particular advantages... unless you want to learn something new!
3. for the Android integration part, take a look here: developer.android.com/guide/webapps/webview.html
For the html/css/js part.... well, web development is as old as the web itself, there are tons of guides out there Don't miss some helpful projects like jQuery Mobile.
karantrehan said:
Namaste my fellow developers.
I am a rather young developer, who started off with Android and have developed about 10-15 apps till today out of which 2 are up on Google Play.
Just to increase my knowledge and sector I was planning to make a shift into web apps. I did learn Java specifically for Android but want to get my hands on the other platforms as well. So my questions, Sirs and Madams, are:
1.Technically, How is Android and Web Apps different?
2.Should I make the transition?
3.How do i start? (some resources would be helpful)
All and Every feedback would be appreciated. Thank YOU!
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Click to collapse
1. Web Apps are made using multiple languages. Front-side/Client-side, they are developed in HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. Out of the three, JavaScript is the only programming language. HTML is a markup language, and CSS is used for UI and UX. You could also use the Dart language. Dart is a new client-side language developed by Google. Currently, however, no major browser supports it (not even Google Chrome), and so in the end, it gets compiled into JavaScript.
Server-side (backend), there are a multitude of programming languages you could use. Java (through JSP), PHP, Ruby on Rails, Python. Typically you're using PHP and SQL for anything in regards to a database.
Web Apps can be hosted in a browser, or you can submit them into App Stores using things like Apache Cordava.
2. As a developer of any sort, you should always improve and learn new languages. Its better for marketability, improves your skillset, and overall can make you a better developer. So, in the end, the choice is up to you. I would highly recommend you to do so.
3. There are tons of resources available. You can search for tutorials on google or youtube. When I got started, I used w3schools to learn HTML, CSS, and PHP. I would really recommend using YouTube as well if you are a visual learner like me.
1. Like reProgrammed said, web apps are a bit different in that there's a couple of layers to them as opposed to Android apps. The back-end logic that does your database fetches and such is programmed in PHP, Python, ASP.NET (C#/VB.NET), etc. The front-end website, the pages and stuff you interact with, are done with primarily (X)HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. And for databases you've got SQL Server or MySQL, mainly.
2. Absolutely. I'm a developer myself, professionally and as a hobby, and it's never a bad idea to learn a new language or framework or environment. It'll make you a better developer and can get you jobs, or foot in the door, if that's your profession.
3. I don't really have many resources. However, in the past I've used:
W3Schools
MSDN (for C#)
Stack Overflow
Google
And then there's always books. They can get outdated but they can be great resources. I still sometimes refer to my "Android for Dummies" book when I'm working on my Android app, even though I Google search more often. Hope that helps.