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I would like to know if there's gonna be an application HUB in the new Windows Phone 7 Series??
Would be nice to have a hub where you can add your favorite 3rd party applications like:
- Location/Navigation software (Google Maps, TomTom, iGO, CoPilot etc.)
- Browser software (Opera, Skyfire etc.)
- Games
- Multimedia software (CorePlayer, TCPMP etc.)
Sorted by example on Category or Most used.
Would be nice, usefull and marketable.
I don't get why Microsoft would introduce an "Application Hub" when the point of Hubs was to get rid of the "applications".
Games would be in the games hub, multimedia would be in the multimedia hub. There's an applications list in alphabetical order on the start page if the right arrow is pressed...
according to http://www.modaco.com/ there's a marketplace hub. does this mean this is the only entry point to install applications? Makes me get panic attacks!
I guess that there'd be another way to install applications, unless they want to have corporate users stay with WinMo 6.5.* for the future, as when a company wants to have a mobile app tied to there custom company software for in house use, they for sure wouldn't want it to take the way over the Marketplace.
As for having the most used applications easily available: you could just pin them to the Startscreen a.k.a. Live-Tiles. You can pin single contacts, single albums, single songs there and I believe somebody already said, that u could pin programs from the App-List to the right too. Depends on the application how it then uses the Live Tile (to display highscore, in-game scenes or what not).
StevieBallz said:
I guess that there'd be another way to install applications, unless they want to have corporate users stay with WinMo 6.5.* for the future, as when a company wants to have a mobile app tied to there custom company software for in house use, they for sure wouldn't want it to take the way over the Marketplace.
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That is a good point. I hope you are right. Not being able to run whatever program I want to is a big deal breaker for me. If this were the case I would go Android unless WP7 gets jailbroken (I feel so sad using this term for WM/WP; it is so open right now. Why restrict it in such ways?).
the reason that they are restricting the apps, is to make the system more stable. They want the experience to be amazing on every phone, eg making the hardware requirements so strict. They want to be able to evaluate what an app does to the system before it is released. They are making the submission parameters easier to comply with, so it will be easy to put your work on marketplace. They new marketplace specs for 6.5 will give developers the ability to make links straight to the app on the marketplace.
Initially I was starting to kinda freak out, but I think this is for the best. It will force people to use the marketplace, and since it won't support old apps, it will move all the applications for windows mobile to one spot, it is just one more way they are trying to compete with apple.
And on a side note, I'm not actually sure that winpho7 has a file explorer... Nothing in the demo gave me reason to think that one would be there. I think they are trying to replace explorer with the hubs.
If you swipe left on the start page, you get a list of all your applications.
I don't think there's a seperate, categorised hub.
I believe you can also add shortcut tiles on the start page, but that's all I know.
(And yeah, I too would like to find out whether WP7 has a file explorer...)
webpatrick said:
I would like to know if there's gonna be an application HUB in the new Windows Phone 7 Series??
Would be nice to have a hub where you can add your favorite 3rd party applications like:
- Location/Navigation software (Google Maps, TomTom, iGO, CoPilot etc.)
- Browser software (Opera, Skyfire etc.)
- Games
- Multimedia software (CorePlayer, TCPMP etc.)
Sorted by example on Category or Most used.
Would be nice, usefull and marketable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't mean to be rude but this doesn't make any sense.
Add your favorite applications to your Start Screen. All the rest are in a list when you swipe to the right.
Apps that fit a certain category would go in that category's hub. Why would you have Games in an Application hub and then have a Games hub? Remember under the Music&Video hub there was Pandora (right now they have it under a list of apps under the hub).. that's your Multimedia software.
I do agree that additional hubs would make sense.. we don't only care about people and pictures etc. but also things like RSS news updates, or like you said, location and navigation. An Internet hub would be a good place for Favorites/Bookmarks, History (shared across every installed browser), RSS, IE8 Web Slices, website notifications (not every update on Twitter and Facebook is by an actual person/contact), etc. If you give the same treatment to Location/Mapping, then suddenly you don't have the standalone apps of IE and Bing sticking out in the hub-centric experience.
but a bunch of shortcuts to different programs doesn't make sense as a hub, just pin them to Start.
reformedctrlz said:
the reason that they are restricting the apps, is to make the system more stable. They want the experience to be amazing on every phone, eg making the hardware requirements so strict. They want to be able to evaluate what an app does to the system before it is released. They are making the submission parameters easier to comply with, so it will be easy to put your work on marketplace. They new marketplace specs for 6.5 will give developers the ability to make links straight to the app on the marketplace.
Initially I was starting to kinda freak out, but I think this is for the best. It will force people to use the marketplace, and since it won't support old apps, it will move all the applications for windows mobile to one spot, it is just one more way they are trying to compete with apple.
And on a side note, I'm not actually sure that winpho7 has a file explorer... Nothing in the demo gave me reason to think that one would be there. I think they are trying to replace explorer with the hubs.
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The problem is that you have to pay $100 for your spot at the marketplace table. Even if your app is free. Simply not fair. No more xda members coding up their own programs and releasing free.
And hubs is not a file explorer. I dont want a device that thinks it knows what I want to do with my files. If I want something that restricts where I get apps and what files I am allowed to store on my device I will get an iphone.
The only thing wp7 might have over iphone os (besides interface; I do think wp7 has a very cool and original ui; that is a matter of opinion though) is multitasking. While details are slim and it sounds like multitasking capability will be very restricted, it sounds like background processing will be available to third party apps at least in some form. Thats more than iphones can say.
Unfortunately I think its android time for me. But I'm not sad about it. Ive started really looking into it and it seems pretty cool. It has full multitasking now and the latest phones are sporting some awesome hardware. I will probably get my first android phone over the summer and i'm excited.
I'm not waiting nearly another year to get hands on an actual wp7 device. Maybe when more details come out it won't be so bad but I doubt it and I'm not waiting to find out. The direction of Microsoft is back in time toward more restriction and control of the product. It's time I jump ship to an open source OS. Sad because I love MS desktop products. My computing world is a constant battle between google and MS. I use windows 7, outlook, exchange, windows mobile office ect. But I choose google over ie, google over bing, and soon android over wm. Will be interesting to see how well this combination will play together.
I don't think installing Cab files will change all too much..I believe it will be much like it is today except we aren't putting the cart before the horse this time. I mean Marketplace just launched months ago even though WinMo has been around for over a decade...its hard to have an effective marketplace when people who want apps know the better places to find them. This time around the app store will launch with the OS so i think it puts more emphasis on the App store (to the average consumer) as well as being better integrated into the phone...but who's/what's stopping us from just downloading Apps the same as usual? Microsoft has mentioned that Activesync will still work with WP7 (Zune will be just for music, pictures, movies) so why is it all of a sudden impossible just to do what we've been doing for years?
It seems odd the exodus that seems to be happening lately. Its like you guys were perfectly happy with with Windows the way it is now?!?! If you are then stay with it the way it is now..lol. I personally can't wait to the what the guys here are gonna come up with for HUB's...hell I can't wait for HTC to put their special touch on WP7..I can imagine the HUB put together in a TF3D fashion...with their own additions of Weather (with that gorgeous UI) stocks...etc. I'm not gonna lie...the possibilities are as endless in the future as they are with the current OS. I think it will be fun to see in about a year, how many of you guys who are riding the fence or doubting the upcoming release will change your minds.
I once had to drag my best friend on a double date....he didn't want to go, he complained the whole way there...saw the girl, and did everything he could to make an excuse to get out of there (she wasn't his type)...now they're married, crazy things happen when you give something a chance. I've waited 2+ years for this and won't back out now just because I see something I don't know the answer to...once I get the OS in hand I will make my decision. I think thats the most logical way
~style~
style1 said:
I don't think installing Cab files will change all too much..I believe it will be much like it is today except we aren't putting the cart before the horse this time. I mean Marketplace just launched months ago even though WinMo has been around for over a decade...its hard to have an effective marketplace when people who want apps know the better places to find them. This time around the app store will launch with the OS so i think it puts more emphasis on the App store (to the average consumer) as well as being better integrated into the phone...but who's/what's stopping us from just downloading Apps the same as usual? Microsoft has mentioned that Activesync will still work with WP7 (Zune will be just for music, pictures, movies) so why is it all of a sudden impossible just to do what we've been doing for years?
It seems odd the exodus that seems to be happening lately. Its like you guys were perfectly happy with with Windows the way it is now?!?! If you are then stay with it the way it is now..lol. I personally can't wait to the what the guys here are gonna come up with for HUB's...hell I can't wait for HTC to put their special touch on WP7..I can imagine the HUB put together in a TF3D fashion...with their own additions of Weather (with that gorgeous UI) stocks...etc. I'm not gonna lie...the possibilities are as endless in the future as they are with the current OS. I think it will be fun to see in about a year, how many of you guys who are riding the fence or doubting the upcoming release will change your minds.
I once had to drag my best friend on a double date....he didn't want to go, he complained the whole way there...saw the girl, and did everything he could to make an excuse to get out of there (she wasn't his type)...now they're married, crazy things happen when you give something a chance. I've waited 2+ years for this and won't back out now just because I see something I don't know the answer to...once I get the OS in hand I will make my decision. I think thats the most logical way
~style~
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I think you have misunderstood the announcements. Activesync (as in sync with PC) will NOT be available. It also seems that there is no way to access the file system on the device. The only way to install apps is through the marketplace. They are removing the ability to just install a cab as we have always done. That is the problem. I am not saying I won't give it a chance. These points may turn out to be wrong. All I am saying is that current info suggests that this is the case and if so WP7 is not for me. Of course I am not going to pass final judgement until it is released. But since all indicators point to the negative I am not going to wait to find out for sure when there are tempting alternatives. And no I am not satisfied with WM as it currently is. The problem is that WP7 fixed what was wrong with WM6 and at the same time trashed everything that was good about WM6 (once again, nothing is for certain but this is what evidence points to).
ok even if it's like that it's microsoft.
Even iphone has jailbreak. In our case we will not have to worry for warranty.
The so called no oem sw will return as bumerang on them.
This is the most hardcore forum on pda's and every one says bhaaaa on MS.
When they did their survey they mast asked only iphone and simple phone users, sertainly not wm users. )
Applications that were made for Windows Mobile 6 are compatible with Windows Phone 7 Series. The interface of the new mobile operating system has been changed though, so the user interface for these applications will have to be changed as well.
"So there is no reason why programs written for Windows Mobile 6 cannot run on the new version of the OS", said Maarten Sonneveld of Microsoft Netherlands to Tweakers.net. "The interface is complete different though, so the applications will have to be changed somewhat before being ready for Windows Phone 7 Series".
It is still unclear how developers can port their user interfaces to the new version of Windows Mobile. Microsoft will only disclose how applications can be developed and distributed at their developer event Mix2010.
Microsoft announced it’s new OS on Monday afternoon at the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. The OS is primarily aimed at synchronisation and integration with Microsft-services like Windows Live, Bing, Zune and Xbox Live. Aside from those Windows Phone 7 Series can also synchronise with Google-accounts and facebook.
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Source
So in summary, while none of the current applications will run on it, the underlying non-UI APIs will be compatible. So if understand correctly, porting would just a case of redeveloping the UI then recompiling, rather than starting completely from scratch. This acts to filter out apps with no more developer support, and promote a consistent UI.
Doesn't sound too bad to me.
That might explain why TomTom was seen on that screenshot of WP7 running on the HD2 (although, it could be a fake!). TomTom takes control of the screen, so uses no WM interface elements. So, it might be able to run full-screen apps/games without changes.
But, who knows...
elyl said:
That might explain why TomTom was seen on that screenshot of WP7 running on the HD2 (although, it could be a fake!). TomTom takes control of the screen, so uses no WM interface elements. So, it might be able to run full-screen apps/games without changes.
But, who knows...
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Click to collapse
I was just thinking the same except if you use the included .net controls, there's no reason that the OS couldn't just reskin them automatically to be at least somewhat more in line with the WP7 styling.
This would be excellent if it's true - and I can't see why it wouldn't be. The UI may be new but why throw away a perfectly good underlying core.
What would also be ideal is if the "multi-tasking" involved an app being set to pause in the background by default, but with a "keep me running" API call available for apps that needed it. I'm sure most apps hog resourses not because they need to but because the developer hasn't really thought about how the rest of the device performs when his app has been left running.
Makes sense, WindowsCE core is still the same
Zaim2 said:
Applications that were made for Windows Mobile 6 are compatible with Windows Phone 7 Series
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Click to collapse
Absolutely wrong statement due to incorrect translation. Original: "De interface van Windows Phone 7 Series is totaal anders, waardoor er in elk geval iets aan de applicaties moet gebeuren voordat ze geschikt zijn voor Windows Phone 7 Series"
Even google translates it correctly:
"The interface of Windows 7 Phone Series is different, which in any case something should happen to the applications before they are suitable for Windows 7 Phone Series".
We have some "ms confidential" documentation dated January 2010 that proves that none of the existing apps would be compatible with WinPhone7. And the only programming suite that is available to "generic" application-writers is Silverlight+XNA. Native apps are prohibited. Only OEMs and MO are allowed to create them (and even they have a set of limitations).
We would not have even source code compatibility - as all our C++ apps have to be converted to .NET.
mamaich said:
We have some "ms confidential" documentation dated January 2010...
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What the heck? And you say that only now? What else is in there? Any word about how background tasks are handled? Please give us some more information, or maybe, can you upload that documentation?
freyberry said:
maybe, can you upload that documentation?
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Obviously I cannot. As it would reveal the person who provided it.
Just to prove that such info really exists - see attached screenshots.
I really hope that the community would force MS to change such a dumb idea to limit independent software vendors to create only managed apps. Prohibiting C++ as a developing language, and "hiding" Windows API from programmer would force lots of developers to abandon this platform. The main reason of success of old WinMobile OSes was the ability to recompile "desktop" apps to WinMobile with just a minor set of changes (ANSI->Unicode + some interface changes).
P.S. I don't read PMs.
Obviously I cannot. As it would reveal the person who provided it.
Just to prove that such info really exists - see attached screenshots.
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Click to collapse
Well, there's certainly a way to remove that information. But anyway, what about background tasks? Are third party applications allowed to run in the background?
mamaich said:
Obviously I cannot. As it would reveal the person who provided it.
Just to prove that such info really exists - see attached screenshots.
I really hope that the community would force MS to change such a dumb idea to limit independent software vendors to create only managed apps. Prohibiting C++ as a developing language, and "hiding" Windows API from programmer would force lots of developers to abandon this platform. The main reason of success of old WinMobile OSes was the ability to recompile "desktop" apps to WinMobile with just a minor set of changes (ANSI->Unicode + some interface changes).
P.S. I don't read PMs.
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Wow, I can't believe noone has picked up on this
freyberry said:
Are third party applications allowed to run in the background?
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OS itself supports multitasking, see attach. But "Windows Phone OS 7.0 Application Platform" that we'll be forced to use to create apps may force our application to be paused in background. I never programmed Silverlight and XNA and can't tell how multitatsking is made in them.
WinPhone 7 == Zune Phone. Both are based on CE kernel, and they should have lots of common in implementation of multitasking, clipboard, etc.
OS itself supports multitasking, see attach. But "Windows Phone OS 7.0 Application Platform" that we'll be forced to use to create apps may force our application to be paused in background.
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The question is, can we write applications that are not automatically suspended when sent to the background? What are the policies on this?
It says multiple processes can run at the same time, but it does not say whether they get suspended automatically.
Is there any info on this? Maybe in the "Scheduling" section?
I’m not sure this is a big deal. I can see them saying a lot of native C++ apps may have compatibility issues. I could go either way on it with the limited amount of information I have on this. I’ll have a better opinion at and after MIX
Note that this could be old documentation, and it’s pretty annoying you're leaking confidential documentation. Personally, I hope you get into trouble for breaking your contract - they trust you and you're posting it? Yuck.
To be fair, though, every app we’ve written has been managed, and Microsoft hasn't t said P/Invoking is verboten, so what would be the problem?
There’s probably exceptions for games and the like, and the documents you've scanned even say a waiver is available to use the Native APIs. So I don’t know what you're complaining about…
Microsoft's dev teams have been listening to developers - why not get them to chime in and also give them a chance to hear you. Posting confidential Microsoft documents, assuming those are real, is not the way to get them to listen
Best,
-Auri
freyberry said:
The question is, can we write applications that are not automatically suspended when sent to the background? What are the policies on this?
It says multiple processes can run at the same time, but it does not say whether they get suspended automatically.
Is there any info on this? Maybe in the "Scheduling" section?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I like Android's approach to this, where Services can run in the background, but UI apps are allowed to be "put to sleep" while other apps run. But then again, we may see a lot of that come into play come MIX and "Answer Time"
Best,
-Auri
Well, I am now both excited and nervous -I think I will just cool my jets until MIX10 and just enjoy the eye candy for now. At worst - if the interface is nice, but the core is crap I am sure some of the boys here at xda will make us an inteface port for 6.5.x that acts and looks like the new hotness with the old compatibility. - lets see MIX
AuriRahimzadeh said:
Note that this could be old documentation, and it’s pretty annoying you're leaking confidential documentation.
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Docs are dated 2010.
I'm not leaking the documentation. I'm sharing the information that anyway would be opened in some days, maybe weeks.
And screens are posted here just as a confirmation of my words. You may think that these pics come from my mind and are made with photoshop - it is your opinion.
I really think that WinPhone 7 would be a failure similar to desktop Vista. Of cause some people would like it, but most would stay on WM 6.x and wait for the next version.
Regarding P/Invoke. As far as I've seen, "unsafe" operations are prohibited in XNA and Silverlight. Otherwise we would be able to call coredll funcs and run native apps (and do everything else that is allowed in our chamber).
mamaich said:
Docs are dated 2010.
I'm not leaking the documentation. I'm sharing the information that anyway would be opened in some days, maybe weeks.
And screens are posted here just as a confirmation of my words. You may think that these pics come from my mind and are made with photoshop - it is your opinion.
I really think that WinPhone 7 would be a failure similar to desktop Vista. Of cause some people would like it, but most would stay on WM 6.x and wait for the next version.
Regarding P/Invoke. As far as I've seen, "unsafe" operations are prohibited in XNA and Silverlight. Otherwise we would be able to call coredll funcs and run native apps (and do everything else that is allowed in our chamber).
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Mamaich any though of a WP7 ce6.0 bsp for all the current cortex A8 devices running on a ce5.2 bsp, will the new kernel support them natively or will extensive bsp/bootloader hacking be required?
P/invoke surely is a limitation of .NET CF, rather than Silverlight/XNA libraries?
I think it would be a bit stupid to remove P/Invoking, because it's just not realistic to rely on .NETCF alone which has soooo much stuff stripped out to minimize size.
Will we be seeing a whole new .NETCF so soon after 3.5? I highly doubt it...Unless MS have been working overtime the past year
Shame, time to stop mobile development altogether if this is true. When we developers are considered as dumb earning pipes for companies who in their arrogant big ways think they have all the wisdom, and app developers only make annoying software that makes their precious leaky OS'es crash, it's time to move on. i would have been talking about IPhone, Android etc, but sadly we must add Microsoft to the list also.
Then there's the $1195,- and airplane tickets we have to pay to get to the Mix2010 in oder to maybe maybe get to be a "partner" with access to limited native API's (probably only reserved for the big companies) and don't even bother talking about giving away 30% of our earnings to a company that last year made how many billions of profits was it ?
Time to start an XDA OS based on REAL Linux maybe ? NVidia have a nice dev-board available for $400,- with Tegra on it. That's what I call developer friendly.
Cheers !
Regardless of how this will play out, I'm pretty sure of two things:
1. Closing down the OS may be beneficial for the majority of users by bringing stability, ease of use, UI consistency, etc. Even though I don't like it.
2. Because the OS itself is multitasking, any and all restrictions may be hacked around, and a "jailbreak" will be possible.
Depending on how this whole thing will be implemented, jailbreaking and using "illegal" apps may be a major PITA (think iPhone 3GS/tethered jailbreak) or as easy as a few registry tweaks/installing additional certs/whatever. If Apple didn't chase JB with every update it would be a rather good platform for both mainstream "ordinary" users and those who want rather unusual things from their phones.
We'll have to wait and see how it evolves really to make a final judgment.
looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599
No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...
A twitter client is already on board isn't it?
Probably they'll also add a fart app to the final retail version. so the only thing you could do is add customized fart sounds!
I really wish it was different but to be honest I don't see any potential for interesting apps on WP7.
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
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Click to collapse
yeah but firefox did take awhile to produce nothing on Wm6 with access to native code so maybe MS doesnt trust them with native code cuz those fennec browser cause the phone to crash sometimes..im holding out hope that they give opera permission
gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff. That's why they focus on .NET. They will eventually have quite a big app library by the end of the year, but most of it will be "fart apps".
Will there ever be an NDK? Who knows...
C:Sharp! said:
No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...
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Click to collapse
LOL..I hate those fart apps...or fart jokes for that matter.
The latest IE that I have on the Prime-II ROM is very good at rendering and formatting the columns for readibility, esp when used in mobile mode. Panning large pages is also very smooth and does not show any blank/white "still loading" when moving rapidly left or right or top or down. I actually stopped using opera because it suck memory and still shows white spaces when panning pages.
I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)
C:Sharp! said:
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff.
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Click to collapse
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
See: PowerShell, which is unashamedly built directly on top of .NET, and yet is a viable replacement to the command prompt due to the fact it can do pretty much anything.
Spike15 said:
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
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Yes, that's correct. You can do that via P/Invoke.
You could also do that on Windows Mobile.
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.
C:Sharp! said:
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.
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I had guessed.
I was just pointing out that .NET on Windows Mobile and Windows is more powerful than it's going to be on Windows Phone.
C:Sharp! said:
I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)
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make some musical ones, to live up to your name!
Hehe
But actually, the name is inspired by the programming language.
No more. Now you will be a music apps developer for WP7!
Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.
C:Sharp! said:
Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.
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Nope. I did not know. Thanks for the info. Now I know just a bit more about the WP7 platform
havox22 said:
looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599
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Click to collapse
I am sure .net framework in wp7s can access all hardware,so why Mozilla need native api access? just performance issues...but Mozilla do a sucked Firefox on WM6.X
Finally, I think .net framework good enough to develop great browser and developer can get benefit by GUI Acceleration
Managed is slow? May be but not critical
http://www.grimes.demon.co.uk/dotnet/man_unman.htm
It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.
vangrieg said:
It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So,this is not .net or Wp7 problem
All about the money
Everything in business is about money, so what? Restricting development to Silverlight makes developing alternative browsers for WP7 impossible because of a huge investment barrier.
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Meatballs said:
i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In other words, it has everything android has and then some - namely, UI you like. Sounds like a reason.
I personally will most probably go to WP7 via Android as WP7 most probably won't be available here for a while, and I never start a new year without a new phone. But that'll be a temporary stop. Android for me is like buying a Ford. It may be a great deal but I just couldn't possibly love the thing.
Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well for me xbox live and the gaming & android was never an option for me since it just felt boring when i pick it up, i was thinking about the evo until i used it & after that i realized that i just dont like android. for you tho im not sure what your into, but silverlight should bring some amazing apps that other platforms cant match supposedly
thats all i have since i never owned an android phone I wont speak to much on it
Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a spec list is important to you, Android is your choice.
If a seamless experience with a responsive UI is more important, WP7 is the better option. WP7's spec list will grow over time (probably rather quickly). It provides the "it just works" aspects of the iPhone while giving you the carrier and hardware choice of Android.
So at this point, it really depends on what you value more.
1) Hubs - WP7 is an information centric OS vs Android, which is app centric. Hubs allow you to have all of the information and applications that you need one click away, instead of jumping in and out of apps continuously.
2) Games - Xbox Live is the largest and most poplar gaming platform ever. Games will integrate into Live and will allow you to play fantastic games online, and most likely cross-platform. (Probably not until v1.1)
3) Music - Every WP7 is a Zune HD. The Zune interface is integrated and beautiful, much better than music on an iPhone (IMO) and undeniably better than the music experience on any Android Device.
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
5) Other random tidbits -
Applications are super super easy to create (I'm taking hours instead of weeks), thus developers will jump on this, and lots of apps will be created.
Hardware minimum is very high, 1ghz snapdragon, WVGA, and 5megapixel cameras are the min (but the platform supports much higher specs).
Large phone selection! Almost all phone manufactures have signed up to make a windows phone, and you will find a couple on every carrier guaranteed.
Lastly, Android is free! this means its likely we will be able to duel boot on a WP7 device, but you will never be able to do this on an android device
Somebody help me out, this is all i could think of off the top of my head. Hope it helps
For me: the clean interface, Live (and Xbox Live) integration and Zune Pass.
I've tried Android and didn't really like it. In a post-iPhone world I don't think it cuts the mustard, it's basically Google's take on Symbian/WinMo.
I like these arguments...
Keep them coming
- Uniform design language for applications
- Better business model for distribution applications
- Trial API for letting users try-before-buy
- More strict hardware requirements (= easier to write apps)
- Larger coverage of paid apps in Europe
- Zune integration
- Xbox integration
-- Xbox achievements (oh yeah!)
- No fragmentation in OS updates
- Supports OTA updates from version 1
- Better design and development tools (Expression Blend and XNA Studio specifically)
- Support for vector graphics
- Windows Live integration
- Cloud storage
- Automatically ("it just works") sync with the PC.
- Best platform for creating mobile games
- Hubs
I could go on, but what I think is really important, is that application and games development is easier than on any other platform. It's more rapid, with larger amount of tooling.
And this means more than people think.
Combined with the good business model for using the marketplace, the market will thrive. Which iPhone proved to be a really killer point.
Apps and iTunes are two points contributed large amount of the iPhone's success. It's scary how little Google cares about these two points for Android.
sprinttouch666 said:
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}
Agent Zach said:
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ops. Not sure what i was thinking, you are very correct about twitter. But, its time for M$ to blow that 3 year old polished turd out of the water with WP7!!!!
(P.S. Thanks for reminding me about Longhorn! I was 11 or 12 at the time!!! I'm gunna QQ all over again!! haha)
It was a minor error, so no biggy. I'm sure Microsoft will somehow introduce their Twitter Integration with an update of some-sort, assuming that they'll do "Client-Side" device updates, like they do with the Zunes.
I use both Facebook and Twitter, so both would be preferred, but if Facebook is all we can get 'out-of-the-box', then I guess I'll have to suffer.
[Actually, I don't mind.. I'm sure there will be a nice TouchTwit 7 App.]
Let me give you a real reason, instead of ****ty phone feature bullet point lists as above:
Android didn't go anywhere yet. Granted, while every app store has its rather tremendously huge share of **** applications, the respective share of good applications on Android is way smaller than in the Apple app store. Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent). Call WP7 minimalistic, but at least they're trying to go for a certain style and presentation, and that consistently. And even with third party applications, look at Facebook for Android, then at Facebook for iPhone. Maybe it's just me, but I want everything I use on the phone to be somewhat attractive. Now look at the upcoming Facebook integration in WP7. Unless you're absolutely disgusted by the Metro style, it looks way more attractive than the Android offering. This'll apply to a lot of future applications, too.
And with the easy and powerful programming environment available in WP7, you should see quite a bunch of decent and innovative applications. Because applications is where it's at in the end. An example: WP7 isn't even out yet, some guy is already demoing a panorama stitching application on Youtube, while there isn't even such a thing available for Android, and the platform's out since quite a while.
I've tried programming with the Android SDK, it was a pretty frustrating experience. Unless someone's a sperg or has tangible financial opportunities to be had (i.e. killer app or hired as Android developer), I don't see people giving it enough effort. As to be witnessed by current application quality.
Tom Servo said:
Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
The amount of games available months before launch is also staggering.
^ your opinion only.
You have several FB and twitter apps to choose from on android, so your point there is completely bogus.
And they're all winners in terms of visual prowess and usability (note: sarcasm).
Windcape said:
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want. I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software. Granted, it's kinda Metro-like, but still completely breaks the norm in relation to the system UI.
I'm aware it's possible, but it's common practice for UI developers from the .NET / Windows stack to stick to the design guidelines. The vast majority will be using the Metro design language, and utilizing pivot/panorama controls, and so on. (Except for games, of course).
Tom Servo said:
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Tom Servo said:
I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?
vangrieg said:
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
vangrieg said:
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. That obviously relies on the application continuing to run on the phone, if you lock the screen. Sadly I couldn't test this yet, since the emulator locks up when you set a screen timeout and let it happen.
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Remains to be seen, if calls interrupt the application. Not sure how to initiate fake incoming calls on the emulator.
Tom Servo said:
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard to beat a professional design, with some talent or not. People spend a lot of time on those for a reason.
Tom Servo said:
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. They promised to supply Pivot and Panorama in the final version of tools, AFAIR.
Tom Servo said:
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it was difficult to do it in Silverlight when it wasn't ready? Apart from that, you don't want a web browser done in C#.
Tom Servo said:
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use GPS loggers myself but always thought one of the core usecases was logging your track while you're using satnav.
I would not take any win oh no matter what version over Android. Personally windows phone 7 def.ly is a major upgrade but it still can't be compared to the open source Android. You will def.ly be by far more restrictive with win 7 ph, plus the apps market for WP7 can't be compare to the Android market.
Don't get me wrong WP7 is a total and competely new UI with a bunch of features that would def.ly be useful to some, but at the end of the day it's MS.
Sent from my Evo using XDA App
MiX2011(12-14.04)-Will There Be Any New"additions" to wp7 ANOTHER UPDATE BEFORE MANGO
The MiX conference is just around the corner and i thought that it would be interesting to see what the users think, hope, want software vise.....
On the other hand, maybe a new handset will be revealed or the new minimum requirements...
With certainty new api's will be introduced...
My hope is for another update in june-july...
The things I would like to see in this order:
#1 Open up APIs that use address book which will open the door for whatsapp and skype.
#2 Bug fixes.
#3 An improved way of delivering updates.
#4 More new features.
I expect announcements of other upcoming features which have not yet been announced.
I fully expect some of the API's to be opened up to developers.
Maybe an announcement of a smaller update which will come out before Mango.
I don't expect any phone announcements, but maybe some Nokia teasers? That would be pretty cool.
nicksti said:
The things I would like to see in this order:
#1 Open up APIs that use address book which will open the door for whatsapp and skype.
#2 Bug fixes.
#3 An improved way of delivering updates.
#4 More new features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I made a bit of a list myself. Well, it's kind of large: http://n8ter.wordpress.com
Skype is a bit meh for me.
There is more to gain by developing a good Windows Live Messenger integration with VoIP and Video Calling, in addition to Facebook Chat and Integrated Presence information in the People Hub. Add in Push Notifications, Group Chat, and File Transfer from the Office/Picture Hubs and it would be just perfect.
They need to add Tasks to Hotmail and add Task Synchronization to WP7's ActiveSync support.
The rest is in the link above. Don't want to bloat up the thread listing all my thoughts...
IE9 needs to be pushed out the minute it's done. Just upgrading IE would be considered a ridiculously big update to many users, and seriously... It would make tons of websites either usable, or much much easier to use.
A Basic RSS Reader integrated into the Platform (with configurable polling times and notifications on new items) would be nice. However, Windows Live allows you to subscribe to Blogs from there, so maybe that serves that purpose and you can just get this form people HUB.
They need to make Facebook Pushed, IMO. And add support for giving Push Notifications adn a counter on the People Hub tile when you get a new Direct Message/Facebook Message/Mention. Perhaps they can roll out Twitter support early.
I think it's pretty bad that they're holding back so much for one big update. I wonder how many people at Microsoft are actually closet iOS/Android users. They don't seem to be clued in much with the way they're iterating on the platform.
I expect nothing new so that I don't get disappointed again.
My wish list:
- ful Skydrive integration so all office documents can be synced
- Twitter integration in the people hub
- some way to allow zune streaming music and video not only to the XBox but to the WP7 devices as well
New apis like above said to make whatsapp available, youtube embedded vids working properly on all regions, bing maps merged with ovi so i can actually use maps, skydrive for office, taskswitcher and facebook im/private messages integerated in messaging app (a pivot next to sms would be cool) and people hub. Ill be a more than happy guy, will be all i need
Interesting if they will show anything we don't already know there.
Talks about NoDo and more Mango previews. Maybe a mention of some API, maybe, and that is all. Any bets?
N8ter said:
I made a bit of a list myself. Well, it's kind of large: http://n8ter.wordpress.com
There is more to gain by developing a good Windows Live Messenger integration with VoIP and Video Calling, in addition to Facebook Chat and Integrated Presence information in the People Hub. Add in Push Notifications, Group Chat, and File Transfer from the Office/Picture Hubs and it would be just perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of the few times we agree 100%. MSN Messenger by Miyowa is not good enough. If MSN Messenger was as feature-rich as you described I would buy a WP7 phone tomorrow.
If there are no new APIs I will be very surprised. And if there aren't, as much as I love my Omnia7, I'm picking up an Xperia Play the very next day. I can understand not having some functionality, but not providing APIs to developers is just plain stupid.
Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express
blade0rz said:
if there are no new apis i will be very surprised. And if there aren't, as much as i love my omnia7, i'm picking up an xperia play the very next day. I can understand not having some functionality, but not providing apis to developers is just plain stupid.
Sent from my omnia7 using board express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+11111111111
Yep, the lack of functionality isn't what stinks. Developers can develop apps to fill those voids.
What stinks is the API blackholes in the platform. That pretty much makes this functionally is impossible to implement at the moment, and there is nothing you or any non-OEM/Microsoft developer can do about it.
You guys shouldn't really expect much in the way of new features. MIX is where the development platform was unveiled last year, I imagine any announcements will be centered around that.
I'm expecting a focus on IE9, hopefully some additional APIs like sockets (which they said has been the #1 request from developers).
vetvito said:
Talks about NoDo and more Mango previews. Maybe a mention of some API, maybe, and that is all. Any bets?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll take the bet that you're 100% right. That's what they do with the 360, it's like "you won't want to miss our announcements" then they serve you the same old sh.. you already knew about.
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
dkp1977 said:
My wish list:
- some way to allow zune streaming music and video not only to the XBox but to the WP7 devices as well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Marketplace (or Zune > Marketplace) > Music > Find Music > Click on Album/Single > Click on Play icon next to album or single = Streaming music,
I mean streaming media that I have on my windows 7 PC.
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
doministry said:
Interesting if they will show anything we don't already know there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Joe Belifore mentioned in a Channel 9 interview last week, that they will be revealing Mango features that they have not talked about before. Expect some major announcements. It was obvious that he was holding back some good stuff.
wheelerk said:
Joe Belifore mentioned in a Channel 9 interview last week, that they will be revealing Mango features that they have not talked about before. Expect some major announcements. It was obvious that he was holding back some good stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
This year, MIX will highlight Microsoft’s commitment to web standards and HTML5, build on the excitement for IE9, and showcase the future of the Windows Phone developer ecosystem. Plus, we’ll unveil what’s new for developers in the next version of Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they announce new features, great I've learned to keep expectations in check when it comes to WP7 though.
Edit: There are 13 sessions on the platform updates. That should mean a good number of APIs are coming our way.
foxbat121 said:
I expect nothing new so that I don't get disappointed again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here....lol