Hello,
I would like to keep the maximum amount of RAM memory free for device use. If I install all my applications on an MicroSD card, (thus keeping the device's RAM clear), will this optimize performance?
Thanks
You can't install apps into RAM. You have 3 types of memory on your device and you seem to be mixing them up and causing confusion.
1. Program memory - this is RAM.
2. Storage memory - this is flash based memory on your device. The ROM is stored here.
3. SD card - self explanatory.
For best performance, you should install everything into program memory.
ohyeahar said:
For best performance, you should install everything into program memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't you mean storage memory (i.e. ROM)?
You can't install programs in RAM. Program information is stored in RAM when the application is running thats the only time RAM is used. Therefore to conserve RAM make sure you close any active programs after using them. You could disable TouchFlo 3D and get a big chunk of RAM back.
On my Mogul I run a program called "Oxios Hibernate" that helps free up RAM from the crap that grabs it as it stays on over time. It helps a lot, but I still need reboots. On the TP2, it would probably work wonderfully.
Thanks for the reply, but the answer is still unclear.
Where should I install applications for best device performance?
Well, you can't install a programm onto the RAM. The RAM is used when you load a programm.
For example, imagine that you install a programm named "Text Editor". You can choose to install it on phone memory (Storage Memory) or on the SD card.
That does not uses RAM. But when you launch (use) the programm, then you use some RAM to launch it. Well, and then, when you close the programm, it does free the RAM used to launch it (or should be).
It's the same in a computer: you can install a game, which require some hard disk space. But to launch the game, you will generaly need some RAM.
So, you can choose to install a programm on SD card or on storage memory. The difference is that, when you want to launch the programm, access will be a little faster on storage memory than on SD card. But once the programm is launched, there isn't any difference any more.
Well, now, to keep RAM, you just need to minimise the programms runnings (for example, installing a screensaver will uses some RAM, as this programm will always be loaded). To do so:
- Don't install to many programms that keeps running all the time (like S2P)
- You can tweak your system and choose not to launch some services (like direct push, which uses 10MB RAM)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not an expert.
And sorry for my poor english
Thanks for the detailed explanation, but the question is still open. To make sure we are on the same wave, the device has:
ROM - 512 MB
RAM - 288 (including 32 MB in the 'baseband' according to specs, whatever that is)
SD Slot - Storage up to 32 GB with a Micro SD card I would add
With this information, where should I install applications for best performance? It seems the 512 MB ROM is probably read-only (the operating system should sit here). So if I do not have an SD card, am I forced to install applications in the RAM? I assume I cannot install my applications in the ROM ("Read Only Memory"). My understanding is that the RAM should be kept as clear as possible to allow good performance, and thus programs should not be installed in it? What exactly is meant by "storage memory", the RAM or the ROM?
I am very familiar with PC concepts, but this one has confused me.
Thank you in advance
mail_e36 said:
Thanks for the detailed explanation, but the question is still open. To make sure we are on the same wave, the device has:
ROM - 512 MB
RAM - 288 (including 32 MB in the 'baseband' according to specs, whatever that is)
SD Slot - Storage up to 32 GB with a Micro SD card I would add
With this information, where should I install applications for best performance? It seems the 512 MB ROM is probably read-only (the operating system should sit here). So if I do not have an SD card, am I forced to install applications in the RAM? I assume I cannot install my applications in the ROM ("Read Only Memory"). My understanding is that the RAM should be kept as clear as possible to allow good performance, and thus programs should not be installed in it? What exactly is meant by "storage memory", the RAM or the ROM?
I am very familiar with PC concepts, but this one has confused me.
Thank you in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROM is like your hard drive on your computer. Also the hard drive on a phone. You can't install anything on your ram.
You install it on your SD card !!
So it looks like the ROM in this device isn't actually Read Only Memory like one would think?
jayr04 said:
ROM is like your hard drive on your computer. Also the hard drive on a phone. You can't install anything on your ram.
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Click to collapse
Isn't it ROM, as in meaning it's non-volatile. i.e. if your battery dies, you are not going to loose what's stored in it...
Here's how I do things:
Essential utils like task managers, anything that runs in the background etc, MUST go onto the phone and not a card.
Anything I'd want to have regardless of the SD card inserted also goes on the phone. Media players and so on.
Games and large apps go on the SD where possible.
I also have another class: "apps that don't need installed". Some apps you can copy the install directory and just run the exe after a hard-reset. Only works with one that don't modify the registry much. I've figured out which ones of mine work OK and they sit on a special folder on the SD with shortcuts also set up on the SD card. Just copy the shortcuts into the Start Menu after a hard reset and you are set.
However, the TP2 has a huge internal storage area compared to my previous WM phones. Running out isn't going to be an issue.
sakshaug007 said:
Don't you mean storage memory (i.e. ROM)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, you're right! I guess I got confused myself as well!
Anyway, install everything into storage memory!
mail_e36 said:
So it looks like the ROM in this device isn't actually Read Only Memory like one would think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it is ROM,
there are several tyopes of ROM. the ROM we are talking about is EEPROM (can be erased and programmed electrically - using software) or some say EEPROM is Flash Memory.
so,
ROM in the device is Read Only Memory (non volatile)
your SD CARD is also a type of ROM (flash memory) but an external one. So, ROM is basically where you store your data permanently and RAM only temporer when that data is in use (open, edited, etc).
Thank you to everyone who responded to my post, you were a lot of help.
it seems these phones dont actually follow the traditional fetch decode execute cycle that a computer does. instead of a hdd there is a eeprom or flash chip in the phone.. the rest of the cycle seems the same. it will be quicker running things from the device as appose to the storage card as the "busses" are faster however if you have loads of apps open yes device will slow down as the ram will be full everything thats happening goes in to the ram before it goes in to the cpu to be crunched. so you can fill your device with apps and it will nto make it slower, it will only be slower if you leave everything running using up all the ram. sorry naff reply lol
and use cleanRAm by htc adics its great!
ROM isn't the correct term to use anymore (it was back before WM5 where the ROM really WAS read only) (unless you were flashing) but is still used anyways. It is a flash chip that has partitions. After the OS and radio and everything is stored in, one more partition is made with all the space left over and that is where you install programs and save things to. RAM is never used to install programs (it was before WM5, but no longer).
use HtcAddicts cleanRam - is works verry well
Nice post. thanks for the file. So if you want to compare your phone's hardware to the equal function of hardware on your PC: ROM is like your internal hard drive; RAM is like your memory; and the storage card is like an external hard drive. Though keep in mind they really aren't the same, just performing comparative functions.
So if you want your phone to respond more quickly, you want as much free RAM as possible. The open applications and all the processes that are running are in the RAM. Limit those and your phone will respond better (by closing unused applications, running the previously mentioned program, etc.). How full your ROM or your storage card are do not effect performance (to my knowledge). However, applications installed on your ROM will be accessed more quickly than if installed on the storage card. So install all the programs you want on the ROM, there should be plenty of space. Put all your big files like pics and music on the storage card.
Related
Hi all,
Can someone please explain to me how the memory is configured in the wizard ? When I look in the Settings>>Memory>>main, I can see that I have Storage memory ( 42.55 Total) and Program memory ( 44.01 Total)
In both areas I have almost 25mb free, what is actually stored in each ? Where is the ROM stored ?
I have read about the 'Extended Memory' is this in one of these or is there another area ? I have read that it is possible to unlock the extended memory, what exactly does that mean, what can I do with this unlocked memory ?
Is there a way to store programs is a memory area where they will not get deleted after a hard reset ?
Hope some one can clarify these points to me.
Chees AZ :roll:
Here is the explanation. It is the same for all WM5 based phones:
1) Program memory - This is your RAM. Just like in the PC it is the memory used to run programs. Part of it will always be used by the OS and other things you have running in the background, which is why you never get all the 64MB printed on the box.
2) Storage memory - This is like your hard disk. It's actually flash memory (just like disk on key) and is used to store files, settings, and all the outlook databases. It is deleted when you hard reset the device.
3) Extended ROM - This is another partition of the flash memory, but unlike storage memory it is hidden and read only. Usually the cellular provider puts it's customization cabs there. If you check the Wizard section of the wiki you will find a tool that will make this partition visible and writable so you can use it just like a built-in storage card. It's contents will not be erased during hard reset, but it will become hidden and read only again.
4) ROM - This is where your OS is stored. It isn't really ROM, but another partition of the same FLASH that contains storage and extended ROM, except it is always hidden and can only be written to by special programs (like the ROM updater). The files there are organized in a special way so they are ready to run and you can see most of them in your windows directory.
On the box of your (and most new devices) it says 128MB ROM. About 64 of those are the OS, another 10MB extended ROM and the rest is storage.
Hi All,
Today I got my new TP2 and it looks great, but I think I have a problem with the memory.
In the Storage I have total 277.72MB and in the Program I have 187.61MB, as I understand its spouse to be 512MB/256MB?
By the way in the Device Information I have 512MB/256MB.
Please let me know if its OK?
Thanks,
Same with my one, Datamemory is 291,04 and Programmemory is 188,21.
I think it's because of prorams and system data that can't be deleted, so only the memory that you can completely use is showed.
=Crux= said:
Same with my one, Datamemory is 291,04 and Programmemory is 188,21.
I think it's because of prorams and system data that can't be deleted, so only the memory that you can completely use is showed.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for very quick answer.
some storage space is used up by stock rom for the applications cooked in. these application use up some of your memory to run. the remainder is what you see once stock rom has booted and loaded! perfectly fine. future custom roms should require less memory to run and the apps cooked in will also use up less storage space. memory will improve and you will have more storage space.
i need help i want a way to make my storage for files more than my storage for programs i use wm6.5 pda2k i dont care if i have to downgrade for a while to do it i have no problem but what is an os that makes u change the space of the storage
if there is i would me helped by u giving me the rom
25 veiws no answer :|
Thats probably because you didn't write big enough.
Dirk
hehe, nice one, spades01!
ok, no one answers, i'll take it.
@almaster:
you are confusing a few things:
you are probably referring to that memory dialogue you had in wm2003 where you could choose the ratio of program and storage memory yourself. that was possible, because wm2003's storage space "\" (like the C:\ on your pc) was actually a RAM drive, and therefor lost, when the battery and backup battery run dry. there was also a 2nd drive, "storage" that had an icon like a storage card, it was 44mb and was persistent, even after you ran out of energy, because it was not ram based but a real memory chip, like in a usb storage stick, that can also hold data without batterys.
the point is: you cannot pick the ratio of program and storage space yourself, because the only storage space you have now, is the old "storage" drive, the 44mb (or in case you resized the extrom space to 128kb and reparted the drive, like 60mb) that old storage, that looked like an external memory has now become your C:\ drive and that ram space you had is now ram. yes, all of it. 112mb, because while wm2003 could easily run with 30mb of ram, you will see, that wm6.5 with titanium and things like that, will easily take up 60mb or more, with customizations or running programs you might get as high as 90mb, and that is why there is hardly any tolerable loss of ram. but if you do want to have a little more space, either look for a rom that has a ramdisk built in of maybe 16mb, then you will have a 2nd drive again, or, if you haven't done it yet, repart your wm2003's extrom, so your basic storage will go up to 60 mb.
if you happen to have done neither so far, at least you will gain another 32mb to your existing 44mb, that is 70% more, and all i can do for you here.
for the extrom resize, go here: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Blueangel_WM6_WizzardUpgrade1_WM2003SE0
or here:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=BA_Extrom_and_Repart
for a wm6.5 rom with ramdisk, have a look for yourself, i just looked in xplode's, sun_dream's and swampy395's rom threads and didn't find any, but they are out there
Phones typically have a partition of encrypted memory for the OS and Apps. Most Win7 Phones have 512MB of this ROM. In other phones, the ROM severely limits the number or size of apps. Are apps in Windows 7 Phone stored in the ROM as well?
I didn't think so until I saw some phones have 1GB of ROM. If just the OS + 60MB of pre-installed software is allowed, what's the advantage of 1GB of ROM?
ROM should be Read Only Memory, so I guess that nothing except maybe major system updates will be installed on the ROM.
ROM is a misnomer but nevertheless the ROM partition is what manufacturers refer to for application space.
I don't see the point of having larger ROM partitions unless apps will be stored on the ROM. I'm hoping that if Windows 7 Phone stores apps on the ROM, it can efficiently recognize and install only the necessities onto the ROM and string the rest of the app over the single storage volume. Otherwise, we're looking at an OS with severely limited app storage.
I read in the Microsoft spec that any app pre-installed by the manufacturer needs to be restorable. So they probably have a backup copy of the app in the ROM section in that case.
athompson said:
I read in the Microsoft spec that any app pre-installed by the manufacturer needs to be restorable. So they probably have a backup copy of the app in the ROM section in that case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you are correct, however, as stated in the original post, the limit for pre-installed software is 60MB.
I know that side-loading isn't possible, but I still have to ask: can you remove the sd card and load an app directly onto it with a card reader? I know that removing the card causes a hard reset, but if you pull the battery first, then can you remove the card, mess with it, replace the card and then replace the battery without having the device hard reset? It seems like you could at least access the sd card file system this way (but I'm probably missing something).
Farmer Ted said:
I know that side-loading isn't possible, but I still have to ask: can you remove the sd card and load an app directly onto it with a card reader? I know that removing the card causes a hard reset, but if you pull the battery first, then can you remove the card, mess with it, replace the card and then replace the battery without having the device hard reset? It seems like you could at least access the sd card file system this way (but I'm probably missing something).
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Click to collapse
Surely, if the OS is split between the SD and phone memory then trying to just use the SD in that way would result in corruption?
Also, I imagine that the OS does self consistency checks, in some way, so that when you reinserted the SD card it'd notice that it's been altered?
Of course, that's a guess and I could be completely wrong.
I think I read in another thread that a few people have pulled the sd card, and couldn't read it with a reader. I guess it's encrypted (makes sense, but it still sucks).
Farmer Ted said:
I think I read in another thread that a few people have pulled the sd card, and couldn't read it with a reader. I guess it's encrypted (makes sense, but it still sucks).
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Click to collapse
Da_G mentioned its like a RAID0 with striping between the internal flash and the external flash card. Striping means that the data is divided between the two storage divices, which makes access faster (since you can get them both in parallel). It also means that if one of the memory devices fails, all data is lost. Which comfirms what we've seen in the Microsoft documentation, that if you remove the flash card and replace it with a different one, all your data is lost.
athompson said:
Da_G mentioned its like a RAID0 with striping between the internal flash and the external flash card. Striping means that the data is divided between the two storage divices, which makes access faster (since you can get them both in parallel). It also means that if one of the memory devices fails, all data is lost. Which comfirms what we've seen in the Microsoft documentation, that if you remove the flash card and replace it with a different one, all your data is lost.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That makes me think, If it's like a raid0, and your internal memory has 8gb, then you dump in a 16gb card, will it be like raid where only 8gb of the 16gb will be usable (in the raid) ?
DavidinCT said:
That makes me think, If it's like a raid0, and your internal memory has 8gb, then you dump in a 16gb card, will it be like raid where only 8gb of the 16gb will be usable (in the raid) ?
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Click to collapse
That's a good point, it doesn't sound too cool, does it. From what I understand about raid0, the purpose is to divide the data between two different disks, so you can get twice the IO bandwidth (since you can load half the file from each one, get it twice as fast). Raid0 doesn't do any backup, so if either hard drive fails, the whole thing is unrecoverable. Which is why most people don't use raid0.
But since it doesn't do any backup, it means there's no 'wasted' space, which means the full 16gb will likely be usable.
RAID0 is in ", better expression is JBOD (but data is stripped between the drives somehow).
Anyway, it is similar to current WM. There is IMGFS with some reserved space (a lot more actually, so all image updates fit in there without flashing phone, I'd be guessing that about 200MB is left as reserved space). The rest of the storage is as userspace, where are all stuff installed.
DavidinCT,
Your thinking of RAID 1 (mirroring) RAID 0 is striping without parity. So it basically writes/reads across both .. it looks like one volume but writes/reads could be on either storage.. depending on where they were written..
So.. when you remove the card .. or if you alter the card... it beaks the stripe set.. and toasts the storage volume.. if the storage is encrypted that would additionally complicate things..
I put Kings shooter and it is working awesome. It's not glitchy, it's smooth and everything works. I partitioned the sd card with Rom Manager. When I use Task Manager the total memory is 404 mb, but free is only 75-90 mb. The apps are downloading to the sd card, but I need to verify they are running from there right? Should I have made it so the Rom runs off the sd card too? Probably dumb questions.
I guess my question is, after loading the rom then I partitioned the sd card, then downloaded a couple apps. I didn't tell it to do anything. I thought I read somewhere I need to tell it to load apps to sd card or something?
Ok, I read where I can go into the settings, applications, yada yada and move it to the sd card. All the ones I downloaded are on the sd card. Is it recommended that I move most other apps to the sd card also to free up lots of memory? Will the phone respond quicker? Thanks
sounds like someone is about to learn the difference between memory(RAM) and storage
Thank you for raising your hand young Mr. Sled=)
deathsled said:
sounds like someone is about to learn the difference between memory(RAM) and storage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now for your first lesson:
RAM = random access memory, used to temporarily store information for quick access, to put it simply.
storage = self explanatory.
Now to the question at hand. Just like we install apps to our sd card and then run them off that versus installing to our internal memory, is this able to be done with for our Rom to save more internal memory? Unlike a computer which uses a hard drive, our phones actually have solid state storage. But maybe it doesn't matter where the apps or roms are stored for speed of use.
I was talking about you not me.....
I based it off of this statement:
"When I use Task Manager the total memory is 404 mb, but free is only 75-90 mb."
and then you go on to talk about storage and apps on SD and blah blah blah.
You understand that Task Manager is showing you the amount of RAM free and not storage space? right?
haha
deathsled said:
I was talking about you not me.....
I based it off of this statement:
"When I use Task Manager the total memory is 404 mb, but free is only 75-90 mb."
and then you go on to talk about storage and apps on SD and blah blah blah.
You understand that Task Manager is showing you the amount of RAM free and not storage space? right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very nice of you to base it off not asking me in the first place and then not offering any info, thanks mr sled. Yes, I do. I'm not up on the latest hardware capabilities, but I know years ago back when nokias were big, we were discussing the use of internal memory as a possible source of expanding ram. Although it doesn't sound like that is the case still since you're not aware of it. Thanks for splaining it to me.
Do you actually have the answer to if we can and should run the rom off the sd card, just like we would run the OS off a hard drive in a computer?
The only devices I'm really aware of that allow running the actual ROM (or OS if you will) from the SD card are the Nook and the HD2. For anything else you're going to have the ROM reside on the internal storage.
You would be taking a big performance hit running a ROM in SD anyway, SD is typically much slower than the internal storage.
You can however install plenty of apps on SD and move lots of stock apps to SD if your has App2SD built in.
deathsled said:
The only devices I'm really aware of that allow running the actual ROM (or OS if you will) from the SD card are the Nook and the HD2. For anything else you're going to have the ROM reside on the internal storage.
You would be taking a big performance hit running a ROM in SD anyway, SD is typically much slower than the internal storage.
You can however install plenty of apps on SD and move lots of stock apps to SD if your has App2SD built in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, very true, for os speed is everything. It would be a slug with slow sd memory. Thanks Deathsled.