Develop Bugs

Some information needed about memory in the Wizard

Hi all,
Can someone please explain to me how the memory is configured in the wizard ? When I look in the Settings>>Memory>>main, I can see that I have Storage memory ( 42.55 Total) and Program memory ( 44.01 Total)
In both areas I have almost 25mb free, what is actually stored in each ? Where is the ROM stored ?
I have read about the 'Extended Memory' is this in one of these or is there another area ? I have read that it is possible to unlock the extended memory, what exactly does that mean, what can I do with this unlocked memory ?
Is there a way to store programs is a memory area where they will not get deleted after a hard reset ?
Hope some one can clarify these points to me.
Chees AZ :roll:

Here is the explanation. It is the same for all WM5 based phones:
1) Program memory - This is your RAM. Just like in the PC it is the memory used to run programs. Part of it will always be used by the OS and other things you have running in the background, which is why you never get all the 64MB printed on the box.
2) Storage memory - This is like your hard disk. It's actually flash memory (just like disk on key) and is used to store files, settings, and all the outlook databases. It is deleted when you hard reset the device.
3) Extended ROM - This is another partition of the flash memory, but unlike storage memory it is hidden and read only. Usually the cellular provider puts it's customization cabs there. If you check the Wizard section of the wiki you will find a tool that will make this partition visible and writable so you can use it just like a built-in storage card. It's contents will not be erased during hard reset, but it will become hidden and read only again.
4) ROM - This is where your OS is stored. It isn't really ROM, but another partition of the same FLASH that contains storage and extended ROM, except it is always hidden and can only be written to by special programs (like the ROM updater). The files there are organized in a special way so they are ready to run and you can see most of them in your windows directory.
On the box of your (and most new devices) it says 128MB ROM. About 64 of those are the OS, another 10MB extended ROM and the rest is storage.

Memory problem

Hi All,
Today I got my new TP2 and it looks great, but I think I have a problem with the memory.
In the Storage I have total 277.72MB and in the Program I have 187.61MB, as I understand its spouse to be 512MB/256MB?
By the way in the Device Information I have 512MB/256MB.
Please let me know if its OK?
Thanks,

Same with my one, Datamemory is 291,04 and Programmemory is 188,21.
I think it's because of prorams and system data that can't be deleted, so only the memory that you can completely use is showed.

=Crux= said:
Same with my one, Datamemory is 291,04 and Programmemory is 188,21.
I think it's because of prorams and system data that can't be deleted, so only the memory that you can completely use is showed.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for very quick answer.

some storage space is used up by stock rom for the applications cooked in. these application use up some of your memory to run. the remainder is what you see once stock rom has booted and loaded! perfectly fine. future custom roms should require less memory to run and the apps cooked in will also use up less storage space. memory will improve and you will have more storage space.

RAM - How to Keep Max RAM Available?

Hello,
I would like to keep the maximum amount of RAM memory free for device use. If I install all my applications on an MicroSD card, (thus keeping the device's RAM clear), will this optimize performance?
Thanks

You can't install apps into RAM. You have 3 types of memory on your device and you seem to be mixing them up and causing confusion.
1. Program memory - this is RAM.
2. Storage memory - this is flash based memory on your device. The ROM is stored here.
3. SD card - self explanatory.
For best performance, you should install everything into program memory.

ohyeahar said:
For best performance, you should install everything into program memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't you mean storage memory (i.e. ROM)?
You can't install programs in RAM. Program information is stored in RAM when the application is running thats the only time RAM is used. Therefore to conserve RAM make sure you close any active programs after using them. You could disable TouchFlo 3D and get a big chunk of RAM back.

On my Mogul I run a program called "Oxios Hibernate" that helps free up RAM from the crap that grabs it as it stays on over time. It helps a lot, but I still need reboots. On the TP2, it would probably work wonderfully.

Thanks for the reply, but the answer is still unclear.
Where should I install applications for best device performance?

Well, you can't install a programm onto the RAM. The RAM is used when you load a programm.
For example, imagine that you install a programm named "Text Editor". You can choose to install it on phone memory (Storage Memory) or on the SD card.
That does not uses RAM. But when you launch (use) the programm, then you use some RAM to launch it. Well, and then, when you close the programm, it does free the RAM used to launch it (or should be).
It's the same in a computer: you can install a game, which require some hard disk space. But to launch the game, you will generaly need some RAM.
So, you can choose to install a programm on SD card or on storage memory. The difference is that, when you want to launch the programm, access will be a little faster on storage memory than on SD card. But once the programm is launched, there isn't any difference any more.
Well, now, to keep RAM, you just need to minimise the programms runnings (for example, installing a screensaver will uses some RAM, as this programm will always be loaded). To do so:
- Don't install to many programms that keeps running all the time (like S2P)
- You can tweak your system and choose not to launch some services (like direct push, which uses 10MB RAM)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not an expert.
And sorry for my poor english

Thanks for the detailed explanation, but the question is still open. To make sure we are on the same wave, the device has:
ROM - 512 MB
RAM - 288 (including 32 MB in the 'baseband' according to specs, whatever that is)
SD Slot - Storage up to 32 GB with a Micro SD card I would add
With this information, where should I install applications for best performance? It seems the 512 MB ROM is probably read-only (the operating system should sit here). So if I do not have an SD card, am I forced to install applications in the RAM? I assume I cannot install my applications in the ROM ("Read Only Memory"). My understanding is that the RAM should be kept as clear as possible to allow good performance, and thus programs should not be installed in it? What exactly is meant by "storage memory", the RAM or the ROM?
I am very familiar with PC concepts, but this one has confused me.
Thank you in advance

mail_e36 said:
Thanks for the detailed explanation, but the question is still open. To make sure we are on the same wave, the device has:
ROM - 512 MB
RAM - 288 (including 32 MB in the 'baseband' according to specs, whatever that is)
SD Slot - Storage up to 32 GB with a Micro SD card I would add
With this information, where should I install applications for best performance? It seems the 512 MB ROM is probably read-only (the operating system should sit here). So if I do not have an SD card, am I forced to install applications in the RAM? I assume I cannot install my applications in the ROM ("Read Only Memory"). My understanding is that the RAM should be kept as clear as possible to allow good performance, and thus programs should not be installed in it? What exactly is meant by "storage memory", the RAM or the ROM?
I am very familiar with PC concepts, but this one has confused me.
Thank you in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROM is like your hard drive on your computer. Also the hard drive on a phone. You can't install anything on your ram.

You install it on your SD card !!

So it looks like the ROM in this device isn't actually Read Only Memory like one would think?
jayr04 said:
ROM is like your hard drive on your computer. Also the hard drive on a phone. You can't install anything on your ram.
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Click to collapse

Isn't it ROM, as in meaning it's non-volatile. i.e. if your battery dies, you are not going to loose what's stored in it...

Here's how I do things:
Essential utils like task managers, anything that runs in the background etc, MUST go onto the phone and not a card.
Anything I'd want to have regardless of the SD card inserted also goes on the phone. Media players and so on.
Games and large apps go on the SD where possible.
I also have another class: "apps that don't need installed". Some apps you can copy the install directory and just run the exe after a hard-reset. Only works with one that don't modify the registry much. I've figured out which ones of mine work OK and they sit on a special folder on the SD with shortcuts also set up on the SD card. Just copy the shortcuts into the Start Menu after a hard reset and you are set.
However, the TP2 has a huge internal storage area compared to my previous WM phones. Running out isn't going to be an issue.

sakshaug007 said:
Don't you mean storage memory (i.e. ROM)?
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Click to collapse
Haha, you're right! I guess I got confused myself as well!
Anyway, install everything into storage memory!

mail_e36 said:
So it looks like the ROM in this device isn't actually Read Only Memory like one would think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it is ROM,
there are several tyopes of ROM. the ROM we are talking about is EEPROM (can be erased and programmed electrically - using software) or some say EEPROM is Flash Memory.
so,
ROM in the device is Read Only Memory (non volatile)
your SD CARD is also a type of ROM (flash memory) but an external one. So, ROM is basically where you store your data permanently and RAM only temporer when that data is in use (open, edited, etc).

Thank you to everyone who responded to my post, you were a lot of help.

it seems these phones dont actually follow the traditional fetch decode execute cycle that a computer does. instead of a hdd there is a eeprom or flash chip in the phone.. the rest of the cycle seems the same. it will be quicker running things from the device as appose to the storage card as the "busses" are faster however if you have loads of apps open yes device will slow down as the ram will be full everything thats happening goes in to the ram before it goes in to the cpu to be crunched. so you can fill your device with apps and it will nto make it slower, it will only be slower if you leave everything running using up all the ram. sorry naff reply lol

and use cleanRAm by htc adics its great!

ROM isn't the correct term to use anymore (it was back before WM5 where the ROM really WAS read only) (unless you were flashing) but is still used anyways. It is a flash chip that has partitions. After the OS and radio and everything is stored in, one more partition is made with all the space left over and that is where you install programs and save things to. RAM is never used to install programs (it was before WM5, but no longer).

use HtcAddicts cleanRam - is works verry well

Nice post. thanks for the file. So if you want to compare your phone's hardware to the equal function of hardware on your PC: ROM is like your internal hard drive; RAM is like your memory; and the storage card is like an external hard drive. Though keep in mind they really aren't the same, just performing comparative functions.
So if you want your phone to respond more quickly, you want as much free RAM as possible. The open applications and all the processes that are running are in the RAM. Limit those and your phone will respond better (by closing unused applications, running the previously mentioned program, etc.). How full your ROM or your storage card are do not effect performance (to my knowledge). However, applications installed on your ROM will be accessed more quickly than if installed on the storage card. So install all the programs you want on the ROM, there should be plenty of space. Put all your big files like pics and music on the storage card.

Confused: Clarify Free storage

I am looking thru some roms, and whatever ... i see some that have storage and programs free space. This is just one, the last one i looked at before having had anough of the confusion.
Here is what the rom lists
Free Storage: 224.62
Free Program: 70.83 (Manila Running) 78.06 (Titanium Running)
Total storage on my tilt 2 is 225.93 !!!!!! This doesnt make much sense to me. If i install that rom, i will have all of my internal storage free??????????????????
And my program used will be about tha same as i have now??? Well, with a reboot first

The storage (FLASH) of TP2 (and Tilt2 as well, I guess) is 512MB, what you see is what left after the system/being available for programs you would install in so called "internal memory".
Same for program (RAM) - the total is 256MB (plus 32MB for radio section) and what you see (70MB etc.) is a free memory for programs you would run.
More is better, of course, but who cares on "internal memory" when one can fit a card with 32GB of capacity...?
A free RAM is an issue however, so please judge on it rather when choosing a system to install ;-)
Regards.

[Q] was I cheated?

Hi
I am so curious about my phone ROM size. I'm not sure if I was cheated. My phone specs say that Internal Memory(ROM) is 4G but when I check it with Antutu, it show only 222MB. Was I cheated? Please check the link and attachment for screenshot.
http://www.handsetdetection.com/properties/vendormodel/Singtech/SGT-X40

Are you asking about your phones ROM, RAM or internal storage? The only number give in the Specifications is 4GB of internal memory... which means internal storage for apps and such.

steelred said:
Are you asking about your phones ROM, RAM or internal storage? The only number give in the Specifications is 4GB of internal memory... which means internal storage for apps and such.
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It should be 4GB but Antutu show only 222MB. That's why I'm curious. Did you check attachment for my screenshot?

No the attachment was unable to open for me... But to answer your question I have seen some factory installed ROM's as large as 6gb so im not suprised that most of your space has already been taken. Just add an Micro SD card. Another way to check is to hook it up to your PC and see how much space windows says it should have. You can also find the largest files and see if its bloatware or something else.

steelred said:
No the attachment was unable to open for me... But to answer your question I have seen some factory installed ROM's as large as 6gb so im not suprised that most of your space has already been taken. Just add an Micro SD card. Another way to check is to hook it up to your PC and see how much space windows says it should have. You can also find the largest files and see if its bloatware or something else.
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Click to collapse
OK, I attached JPG. Why 4GB turn to 222MB? It is not even close.

First of all you are not in the right forum, this is the i747(m) forum. Secondly the information you are looking at is the physical memory (RAM), and the size of the rom that is installed (ROM, go figure). This simply means that the partition size to install an OS on your device is 222 MB large, which is stored on the internal storage (sdcard). The specs for the device list 4GB total internal storage, after subtracting system reserved space (ROM, Recovery, Bootloader, etc.) you are probably left with a little over 3 GB of actual accessible storage space. The screen shot you have provided does not include the internal storage capacity.

dntesinfrno said:
First of all you are not in the right forum, this is the i747(m) forum. Secondly the information you are looking at is the physical memory (RAM), and the size of the rom that is installed (ROM, go figure). This simply means that the partition size to install an OS on your device is 222 MB large, which is stored on the internal storage (sdcard). The specs for the device list 4GB total internal storage, after subtracting system reserved space (ROM, Recovery, Bootloader, etc.) you are probably left with a little over 3 GB of actual accessible storage space. The screen shot you have provided does not include the internal storage capacity.
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That Internal Storage is ROM, isn't it? Why did you say it doesn't include Internal Storage Capacity? I attached another half of Device Information. Please check.

Rexkh said:
That Internal Storage is ROM, isn't it? Why did you say it doesn't include Internal Storage Capacity? I attached another half of Device Information. Please check.
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Click to collapse
No, as i stated in the instance of this screen shot the ROM label is signifying the size of the partition you have available to install an OS, i say it doesn't include internal storage because it doesn't mention internage storage (or sdcard) anywhere in the pictures. I have never used Antutu so i downloaded to see what it looked like on mine and it is much more detailed. I attached a screenshot, and i also attached a screenshot of the storage menu from the settings menu, which is all you need to look at to find out how much internal storage you have. As you can see my device has 1700 MB of RAM (physical memory) and although their label of 'memory' under storage is incorrect and misleading you can see it matches exactly and is in fact the internal storage size...the information you are seeking. You can see the same information on internal storage with the built in storage menu. You will also notice that i only have a useable 12GB, when my phone actually has 16GB internally....this is because of system reserved space. Im not really sure how much more specific i can get about the difference between RAM, ROM, and storage....i hope this helps.
On a commentary note, seriously dude if your device only had 222 MB of internal storage after the intial install size of your ROM you are left with 46 MB, you would be hardly able to install a couple apps and cache a few websites before you phone decided life isn't worth it and jumped out the window.

dntesinfrno said:
No, as i stated in the instance of this screen shot the ROM label is signifying the size of the partition you have available to install an OS, i say it doesn't include internal storage because it doesn't mention internage storage (or sdcard) anywhere in the pictures. I have never used Antutu so i downloaded to see what it looked like on mine and it is much more detailed. I attached a screenshot, and i also attached a screenshot of the storage menu from the settings menu, which is all you need to look at to find out how much internal storage you have. As you can see my device has 1700 MB of RAM (physical memory) and although their label of 'memory' under storage is incorrect and misleading you can see it matches exactly and is in fact the internal storage size...the information you are seeking. You can see the same information on internal storage with the built in storage menu. You will also notice that i only have a useable 12GB, when my phone actually has 16GB internally....this is because of system reserved space. Im not really sure how much more specific i can get about the difference between RAM, ROM, and storage....i hope this helps.
On a commentary note, seriously dude if your device only had 222 MB of internal storage after the intial install size of your ROM you are left with 46 MB, you would be hardly able to install a couple apps and cache a few websites before you phone decided life isn't worth it and jumped out the window.
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Do you think Android 2.3 OS take more than 3GB? It could be enough for OS for PC. I'm not sure if you say ROM and Internal Storage is different?

Rexkh said:
I'm not sure if you say ROM and Internal Storage is different?
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Click to collapse
That is precisely what i said, in great detail.

I don't get it well. If they are different, why both of them are not mentioned together in specs list. Basically, If Internal is mentioned, no ROM is mentioned. Look at this link for example. Spec show only ROM, no Internal Storage.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-THL-W10...1233484441?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item3cd2baa299

Rexkh said:
I don't get it well. If they are different, why both of them are not mentioned together in specs list. Basically, If Internal is mentioned, no ROM is mentioned. Look at this link for example. Spec show only ROM, no Internal Storage.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-THL-W10...1233484441?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item3cd2baa299
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Their specification is labeled wrong. Like i said several posts ago, go into the settings menu on your phone, then storage. This will tell you how much internal storage you have available and a chart of what is using it.

dntesinfrno said:
Their specification is labeled wrong. Like i said several posts ago, go into the settings menu on your phone, then storage. This will tell you how much internal storage you have available and a chart of what is using it.
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Click to collapse
One reason I'm trying to figure out if manufacturer sold me what I've been told. The second reason, I want to buy a new phone which is not popular brand like Samsung. If I can't figure out what is the real Internal Storage, I might end up buying a phone with very small internal storage which I won't be able to install many apps. I mean 4GB is really enough for me if it is really 4GB, not 222MB or less.