Develop Bugs

A complaint about this section of XDA-DEVS. (Development and Hacking)

quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.

It saddens me
I was a bit disappointed hearing this from a marvelous developer such as you are but I believe you are not evil because you have tried your best to bring us the best out of our devices
Please do reconsider...

I hear what you're saying, mate. I lurked around this place for over six months before making my first post, just reading up and learning. People don't want to read anymore...they think that this place is the instant free tech support center.

djboo, I don't agree! Most of the threads in D&H subforum are developer or constructive threads. This is not an easy thing to accomplish, and I think it shows the quality of the forum. You can't disable access to "noobs", developers make their stuff for everyone, not just other developers or experienced people! I'm glad if other people like something I make.

Partially agree...
djboo said:
quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.
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I partially second that, although I think that membership seniority based on number of posts isn't the best practice if to implement what you proposed. As I, for example, don't post a lot but read the forum for almost 2 years, and have dev. background (and I guess there a lot of others like that), there are some that post a lot of questions and/or comments that are not that dev. inclined or do not have the knowledge (yet?).
I do see your point here, and me too stopped following the TF3D thread after tons of non development related issues. Maybe putting Dev/Hack as read-only and people would have to ask a mod / admin for posting rights on it? And then giving full access to the Q&A thread / new section? So devs. could enjoy it more, general community could still get the latest (downloading newer version from Dev/Hack, etc.) and get questions answered in an orderly fashion... BUT, what with those nice little apps people write and post here from time to time, that come from someone that is not THAT involved in the community? They'd simply go elsewhere, and I guess this IS the most valuable asset the community have. With all due respects to the "regulars", I think those that pass by once in a while and contribute are
invaluable too. Guess it's the price to pay for innovation, having to sort through the non-sense to find the gems.
In the end, I think the problem here are the filters we use. Maybe we just need to find a better way to organize the data here, so it's easier to follow... What I do hope, is that whatever is done, doesn't change the essence of this great oasis...

I kinda agree with ur second part but i'm sure someone would have told the mods if it was a "dangerous app", rite?

I am a noob
Ok, I understand quite well what you are saying. Being a noob myself, i am learning as much as i can, slowly but I hope surely.
I try to read thoroughfully each thread that I have interest in.
The only regret I have is the search engine. For example, I'm still searching for a thread where it explains how to modify spb mobile shell files to have PI8 as the default calendar. I know the intel is there somewhere, but I'm having a hard time to find the right post/thread.
So maybe one of the possibilities would be to enhance a little the search engine or the way results are shown => enlighten the searched words...
Please reconsider, don't be to hard on the noobs, I think we aren't so bad, some of us want to learn.
And thank you very much for your patience, talent and ideas.

I do agree too that there is too much "I like that.... whats it for?" when a lot of the time the developers do put the information in their posts. BUT..... sometimes these STUPID, RANDOM comments do contribute by putting an idea out there to be expanded on. Sometimes they provide needed feedback and ideas.
If you restrict access to these areas then you may as well shut down the site.
This is a forum and as such there will ALWAYS be those annoying clueless posts but you have to remember that you were once there yourself...
You have to make allowances for those members who DON'T speak english very well as they may be very tech savy but just have difficulty putting their ideas down in English. They may actually give something back..
And thats my 2 cents

hi all
in fact there was a section missing , here , for asking
seems they are doing something very soon , reading the sticky thread
Here
and so the D&H will come back to be free for real dev

djboo perhaps you are a little hasty in this thread and I agree with some of what you say, however, alot of ppl respect everything you and other developers give us immensely! without ppl like yourself alot of us would never use Windows Mobile devices, instead following the masses of other "mind washed" CrApple iphone uses, anyway please don't stop sharing just because a few mindless teenagers didn't get enough Oxygen at birth!

people make their own choices. if you post something which might trigger a brick and someone uses it you can blame him for either trying something without investigating first or for just being plain stupid (depending on the circumstances).
the fact that this section is a target for terrorist idiots action isn't different from any other internet or real forum in the world. people tend to go wherever's warmer and cuddle there.. and try to suck every little ounce of good they can find in that place.
that's why you can find thousands of stupid posts and questions instead having a clear, professional section. not using search, not being able to read rules before posting.. that's international.
as for restricting... I must disagree to the proposal. it would require more work from the dev to find the members he'd like to share this with instead of just posting his work. and being a senior member on this forum means NOTHING considering it depends on the number of posts you have rather on how long you've been around or how much you have contributed to this community.
but what i do suggest is, that a member will have to be at least X months old in this forum to post. this will make people use search and learn before they come up with stupid questions.
cheers.

As a link above has p[pointed out, there is a new forum coming for questions. If you really have a problem with some of this noob questions, PM a mod/report the post.
Also, if you want to post a thread as an announcement, rather than a questions/answers thread, PM a mod to get it locked.
If you don't let new members post, they will never find anything out.
One final thing: you yourself have posted this in an area in which it doesn't belong. It has nothing to do with Development or Hacking, it's about what happens in this forum. As such, I'm going to move the thread to the "About xda-devs" section.

Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave

i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.

djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
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If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?

DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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that man said it better than i ever could.

l3v5y said:
If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?
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Click to collapse
i dont want closed developing. i want developing. currently the main thread in question is more like doing lines for teacher. once a day, log in, "HTC-CA drivers disable shutdown, TF3D uses those drivers. use manilatoggle to disable TF3D before you power down" x10

djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
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Click to collapse
djboo... I understand where you are coming from, but I also do not totally agree with your comments. Although I may be a noob, I do have a lot ov experiance in computing. I do not have the time to develop of backwords engineer apps. I wish I did. I would enjoy doing it. I agree with you that the thread owner should be able to delete posts that are off topic, but I think the thread owner should also move a question with an answer to the first page if they see multiple posts. This would make it easier to find some of the common answers. I agree that users should use the search, but it does not always return what you are looking for. I have made a post and been berated for not using the search (when in fact I had). I truly enjoy the work you and the rest of the developers are doing. Without you guys, my phone would be quite boring, but because of the work done on this site, I am quite happy with my phone and how it operates. I have friends that think I am a god because I help them with thier phone, but I would not be able to do half of what I do if it were not for the work done here. I hope you go back to work on Manilla3D. We noobs need the knowledge you provide. As for off topic posts such as the nes on the Manilla3D thread, a lot of them go on due to people endulging these people by answering thier post or flaming them. I have seen senior members do this and all it does is fuel a lot of these guys. Ignore them! Geez, I have had my ligidimate questions ignored, why not ignore the non-ligitimate ones? Anyway, I will get off my soap box. I appreciate everthing all of you developers do and I hope one day I will have the time to contribute to the development community. Take care.

It is possible to set up a "thread owner" or thread based permission system but it would take some work and more importantly a Vbulletin developer to iron out the issues that may come up.
I have tried it on one other site but it was a little difficult. Of course I think a more productive idea is to have developer groups. Vbulletin has a group system built in as of 3.7 and it allows for comments and such. In 3.8 it will allow groups to have their own message boards. With a little help you can set up 3.7 to also have message boards controlled by the owner of the group.

DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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djboo said:
that man said it better than i ever could.
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Yup that's why it's in my signature under XDA Mantra.

About THREAD CLOSING ...

No, this is not the usual WHY HAS MY THREAD BEEN CLOSED complain!
I just wonder if closing a thread is really useful? A closed thread still appears in the search results and therefore it does not matter how many replies it has, so, closing it is pointless!
A better idea would be to remove / delete threads if they do not contribute anything to the XDA community. This way that 'non-content threads' wouldn't even show up while searching for things.

You have a point there.
Sometimes we leave threads only closed just to let them pop up in search results to prevent another one opened for the same topic.
Sometimes there is no apperent reason not to delete it.
If you happen to find such a thread, feel free to report that thread to a mod or admin so he/she can take action.
Best Regards,
EquinoXe

I agree, most of the time we don't delete them because it causes more issues that it solves. That being said, it would probably benefit us greatly to start at some of the oldest threads and just start deleting information that is not longer relevant or useful anymore. Eventually it would greatly improve the quality of searches.

I think the Mods walk a fine line of censorship here and on other forums. Forums, especially development forums grow and evolve through the free flow of ideas and the back and forth bantering of it's members. Because of human nature this bantering often ( too often ? ) disinigrates into unproductive flaming , ego driven hard feelings and other such behaviour. At which point the Mods need to step in .
I think when a Mod steps in with a valid reason and posts why he/she is closing a thread, he/she walks on one side of the censorship line. When they close and delete all traces of a thread, I fear they cross to the other side of the censorship line.

guys, you all have the point...mike has most...
i think closed threads are good example and reminder to all members (not just juniors)
eg. i won't ask a question if i saw it in a closed thread...so you get less new useless threads and there for less work for mods...
by the way closing is best way of preserving good solved threads from being rocked with all those stupid and useless posts and replies...like thanks...it worked for me...and so on

i think as long as a post provides information or the answer to a question that may be a popular one, then it should be closed rather than deleted if the reader has further question maybe a pm to a mod to reopen it

Removed Thread
I personally have had several very offensive flame threads removed at my request by the moderators. In every instance, they were removed shortly after I reported them. Removal is a very drastic step that should be reserved for those threads that are offensive to their core. Apparently our moderators agreed with my view because the threads were removed.
So I think there is a place for removal--but do like the idea of some threads being moved to the trash forum...as an example of what not to do. Sometimes, we do put information in threads that are closed that is very valuable but fully discussed and those, as noted above, do not belong on the trash heap.

I hear the sentence 'value in older threads' quite often and surely understand the fact that nobody wants to lose such information.
So,
keeping this fact in mind, older threads still could be deleted easily if their content is covered in the WIKI. This - at least in my opinion - makes sense since the WIKI should be one of the first places users should look at before posting / starting a new thread.
A big 'task before house cleaning' would be to add anything of value to the WIKI, then the deletion of a thread wouldn't really matter but would add a bit more quality to the boards since all those 'not-more-needed' threads would be reduced to a minimum.

Junner2003 said:
So,
keeping this fact in mind, older threads still could be deleted easily if their content is covered in the WIKI. This - at least in my opinion - makes sense since the WIKI should be one of the first places users should look at before posting / starting a new thread.
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nice idea...but only in theory...because someone has to go through both the wiki and the forum to merge,replace and delete threads if they are in the wiki
you'd need people to do it...and you can't just point the finger at anyone, not even mods...they are volunteers, not slaves
generally the idea has sense and would be a good time and space preservation...you just have to do it yourself when you become so stressed and angry because of redundancy, useless info...and people in general
i tried to run some actions in cleaning the threads of those offtopics so i gathered over 200 offtopic (non htc) threads and provided them to mods...and they deleted the most
but it's a one time action....those threads will come again over time...and nobody really gives a damn about it

Forum sugestion: A "No thanks" button...

So I have been a member on here for a while and have observed the changing trends in devices and users. But something has gotten much worse in last year and I think we need to address it in proper XDA fashion. I am not the type to complain without trying develop a solution and I am looking for some feedback from mods and users of all types, shapes and sizes here.
This forum has a real problem with people making useless posts in the wrong sections, about the wrong topics and while I think the mods do a great job they clearly can't keep up. I am no saint and will admit my own guilt on one or two occasions but some users just post meaningless post after meaningless post and really great threads are being destroyed as a result. This problem has clearly gotten out of hand and it isn't limited to just the devices I follow. A review of the forum shows this behavior in just about every device category. Just my observation...
My proposed solution to this problem I perceive is a "No thanks" button that will function in exactly the opposite way the "Thank you" button works with a few caveats I see as a huge value add.
1. If a certain post is given X amount of no thanks clicks it is automatically sent to a mod for review or perhaps even automatically deleted.
2. 1 Thanks click cancels out X no thanks clicks. This would keep trolls from using it in destructive ways if you are just someone that has a few enemies. Hopefully...
3. One thanks click cancels out X no thanks clicks.
4. After a user receives X amount of no thanks clicks they are redirected to the forums rules page for a period of 24 hours. No matter what link they click or how they access the site they will just be redirected to a page with the forum rules so they can study them.
I could go on listing things but I want to see what you guys think about something like this. It would allow all of us to some degree the ability to moderate our favorite threads and keep the BS posts to a minimum. User that continue to post things off topic or in the wrong threads will find themselves spending a lot of time studying the forum rules. Even if we don't add the enhanced features the no thanks button is long overdue. These people can wear their lack of respect for forum rules like a badge of shame the same way devs wear the thanks button like a badge of honor. It will give them more incentive to think about the things they post and will help ensure that good threads are not destroyed by the same question asked 100 times.

Moved to About xda-developers.com section

i agree it would bring alot of excitement to the forum , and the automatic mod contact would be a great idea for members who are a constant problem , also total negative points could show up in the profile and maybe have a forum top list for easy overview of troublemakers
also it has to be understood that it would bring a massive amount of work as ive never seen 2 types of thanks (or positive-negative)buttons in a vBulletin system

jnutz said:
This forum has a real problem with people making useless posts in the wrong sections
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Moved to About xda-developers.com section
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Sorry, that just made me chuckle..

This has two ways it could go.
one way:
A bury down system, if there is a post that is irrelevant or off topic and not needed in that thread users could bury it (IE: Hide for themselves) and enough votes hides it for all members of that thread.
other way:
Exactly like thanks button but instead has no thanks. Thing is this serves really no purpose as if Post A was useful and then Post B wasn't very helpful and one got "thanked", the other "no thanked" then it would balance out to zero. In the end this means nothing as XDA is about sharing, not who has the best thanks ratio.
I dont think this is the best route for XDA as we move on and mature as there are much more important issues to focus on at the moment

Bury down system seems like a good idea, since inevitably people may reply to the poster before he recives enough -1 to bury the post and if that post is then deleted it will just make the forum read flow badly
Let me suggest that not everyone should be entitled to the -1 button to bury a post, only lets say 60-70% of the members either deicded apon by join date/thanks recived andor post count.
Another problem I've seen in regards to the new 10 post rule is that people are just trolling on other forums typing random useless things in just to increase their post count to 10.
Persistant offenders that have had their posts buried should get some sort of mail to warn them if things dont improve their account will be looked at by a moderator.

arielc said:
Bury down system seems like a good idea, since inevitably people may reply to the poster before he recives enough -1 to bury the post and if that post is then deleted it will just make the forum read flow badly
Let me suggest that not everyone should be entitled to the -1 button to bury a post, only lets say 60-70% of the members either deicded apon by join date/thanks recived andor post count.
Another problem I've seen in regards to the new 10 post rule is that people are just trolling on other forums typing random useless things in just to increase their post count to 10.
Persistant offenders that have had their posts buried should get some sort of mail to warn them if things dont improve their account will be looked at by a moderator.
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Click to collapse
Report the posts of anyone who is spamming other areas, as I'll simply ban them for spamming the board. The limit is there for good reason, and people trying to get round it will be dealt with severely.
Cheers
P

jnutz said:
So I have been a member on here for a while and have observed the changing trends in devices and users. But something has gotten much worse in last year and I think we need to address it in proper XDA fashion. I am not the type to complain without trying develop a solution and I am looking for some feedback from mods and users of all types, shapes and sizes here.
This forum has a real problem with people making useless posts in the wrong sections, about the wrong topics and while I think the mods do a great job they clearly can't keep up. I am no saint and will admit my own guilt on one or two occasions but some users just post meaningless post after meaningless post and really great threads are being destroyed as a result. This problem has clearly gotten out of hand and it isn't limited to just the devices I follow. A review of the forum shows this behavior in just about every device category. Just my observation...
My proposed solution to this problem I perceive is a "No thanks" button that will function in exactly the opposite way the "Thank you" button works with a few caveats I see as a huge value add.
1. If a certain post is given X amount of no thanks clicks it is automatically sent to a mod for review or perhaps even automatically deleted.
2. 1 Thanks click cancels out X no thanks clicks. This would keep trolls from using it in destructive ways if you are just someone that has a few enemies. Hopefully...
3. One thanks click cancels out X no thanks clicks.
4. After a user receives X amount of no thanks clicks they are redirected to the forums rules page for a period of 24 hours. No matter what link they click or how they access the site they will just be redirected to a page with the forum rules so they can study them.
I could go on listing things but I want to see what you guys think about something like this. It would allow all of us to some degree the ability to moderate our favorite threads and keep the BS posts to a minimum. User that continue to post things off topic or in the wrong threads will find themselves spending a lot of time studying the forum rules. Even if we don't add the enhanced features the no thanks button is long overdue. These people can wear their lack of respect for forum rules like a badge of shame the same way devs wear the thanks button like a badge of honor. It will give them more incentive to think about the things they post and will help ensure that good threads are not destroyed by the same question asked 100 times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love this idea. I came in to this section, getting ready to request a 'No Thanks' button myself, when I found your post. Some of the completely frustrating examples are:
1) Posting the message 'Thanks' instead of just clicking the thanks button
2) Asking what the battery life on a new ROM is, 2 minutes after the ROM has been posted
3) Asking questions that have been asked 20 times in the current thread
This problem gets exacerbated by other members posting to tell them that they're post is not useful, in the wrong place, or redundant.
If we had a way to flag these posts, maybe by adding more options to the 'report' functionality, without further polluting the thread, it would go a long way towards keeping threads clean.
Thx,
Jason

djgromit said:
I love this idea. I came in to this section, getting ready to request a 'No Thanks' button myself, when I found your post. Some of the completely frustrating examples are:
1) Posting the message 'Thanks' instead of just clicking the thanks button
2) Asking what the battery life on a new ROM is, 2 minutes after the ROM has been posted
3) Asking questions that have been asked 20 times in the current thread
This problem gets exacerbated by other members posting to tell them that they're post is not useful, in the wrong place, or redundant.
If we had a way to flag these posts, maybe by adding more options to the 'report' functionality, without further polluting the thread, it would go a long way towards keeping threads clean.
Thx,
Jason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, seeing battery related and other FAQ can be frustrating, but they are not exactly spam, and XDA is growing and new users are discovering the world of custom ROMs and flashing because of which certain excitement and stupidity at the same time.
It's in the right spirit to welcome and be good to new members, but indeed if you notice a particular member getting out of hand or a little to n00bish please do report and we the MODs will do the needful.
We all need to strive for a balance between the developers and old school XDA members part and the new members, it can be tough; but i'm sure it can be done
JM2C's.

Hola, I would have liked to quote all of you, since you all have pro´s but there are also plenty of con´s and so I´ll only quote this last ones as reference...
djgromit said:
I love this idea. I came in to this section, getting ready to request a 'No Thanks' button myself, when I found your post. Some of the completely frustrating examples are:
1) Posting the message 'Thanks' instead of just clicking the thanks button
2) Asking what the battery life on a new ROM is, 2 minutes after the ROM has been posted
3) Asking questions that have been asked 20 times in the current thread
This problem gets exacerbated by other members posting to tell them that they're post is not useful, in the wrong place, or redundant.
If we had a way to flag these posts, maybe by adding more options to the 'report' functionality, without further polluting the thread, it would go a long way towards keeping threads clean.
Thx,
Jason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think and welcome the idea of "flagging" certain posts after it is totally clear (I know, sometimes it seems obvious) that the post is "trash" or BS (by the way, my initials). But there are also plenty of drawbacks to the way this can be done, so no hard/personal feelings get "hurt" und thus agrrevate the situation and lead to more discontent and "wrong" behaviour. Maybe anonymously after a poll? But then again, this would also mean more work for the admins or further involucration and responsibility for the OPs (which is my opinion, that they should be held more responsible for their threads and given more authoroty with that rensponsability - but that´s a different thing and not the point here).
As for your "frustrating" examples:
1.) When the "thanks" button got introduced (again), like in so many other boards, for some it´s enough just to push that button to show their appreciation, but others "need" to write a "thank you" post (which used to be the way before) - call it education, need to get the post count up, what ever... I personally think, there is nothing wrong with either method, hitting the button, or writing a thanks post. Doesn´t harm anybody, and btw, to bad the limit is 5 per day, cause a lot of times I find very usefull posts for me (mostly more than 5 per day) and I can´t thank the users for it, unless writting a thanks post. Both of these methods are positive and encouraging...
Now to the "no thanks".... It´s neither encouraging, nor positive, nor really constructive and could lead to further discussions within a thread instead of the intended result.
2.) Answered by madnish below
3.) It´s a pitty, but it´s human lazyness, sometimes not to read the posts from others (not the questions and not the answers to those questions), or simply call it egoism, wanting a personal solution, lack of time... or simply not having payed attention. I´ve answered quite some questions asked over and over again, just like a lot of other members. You can either try to help people, and remind them to use the search and/or read the thread thoroughly before posting a question...., or you can tell them their post is BS, not usefull, has been answered a million times, etc, or you can simply ignore them. All of these lead to the same result. After a while, these users tend to read, search and think before posting, so it has a positive and beneficial effect on the mid/long term...
So YES, "flagging" would be OK, depending on how it´s put into practice.
madnish30 said:
I understand, seeing battery related and other FAQ can be frustrating, but they are not exactly spam, and XDA is growing and new users are discovering the world of custom ROMs and flashing because of which certain excitement and stupidity at the same time.
It's in the right spirit to welcome and be good to new members, but indeed if you notice a particular member getting out of hand or a little to n00bish please do report and we the MODs will do the needful.
We all need to strive for a balance between the developers and old school XDA members part and the new members, it can be tough; but i'm sure it can be done
JM2C's.
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I´m kinda representing the noob´s side. I´m only a simple and yes, stupid user. No dev, no technical background, but lot´s of questions... Maybe xda used to be different and only for developers, as the name states, but times have changed and also the "kind" of members. The profile is no longer only dev´s and tec´s, but also a lot of users with different expertice (less), skills (other), background, knowledge, age, education, culture, language, etc.
All users should me more responsible, but hey, we are all human and act according to different standards, believes, etc. The only way to solve this problem is by all enforcing and encouraging the rules, "helping" out the OPs, Moderatrors & Admins to keep the threads as integer, clean and "on topic" as possible. I know there are times when some posts are interpreted (and actually are) off topic, but sometimes this is also beneficial for the users and thus for the thread itself.
Basically all this is just to say, it´s not about all that can or needs to be done by rules, limitations, mods and admins - it´s about what WE can ACTIVELY do to improve the situation and avoid it becoming worse...
Btw, I would have pushed the "no thanks" button for this request. Not because I don´t think that it´s a good thing, simply because I don´t agree with it. Very good innitiative, but in my honest and humble opinion, bad judgement, so YES, thank you, but no thanks

Why So Hostile?

Hi!
I really enjoy the forum but why is it so hostile to new users? For example, being forced to do a CAPTCHA every time I write a new post, and when I wanted to share my desktop in the share your desktop thread in the Galaxy Tab 10.1 forum I was blocked because I'm new, and then when I went to fix a typo in a post I'd just made, it told me I had to wait FIVE minutes! Believe me, I understand what a problem spammers are. I am a moderator on another tech forum and I used to be a moderator for MTV. I get it. But treating all your new users as if they are spammers and making them jump through hoops or blocking them from being able to do simple things like share a screenshot just gives off a "we hate new users, we know you're all evil spammers so we hope this frustrates you enough to drive you away" vibe.
I understand that your rules are your rules and respect that, and I like it here. I just wanted to put in my two cents about the impression it gives new users.

BretonGirl said:
Hi!
I really enjoy the forum but why is it so hostile to new users? For example, being forced to do a CAPTCHA every time I write a new post, and when I wanted to share my desktop in the share your desktop thread in the Galaxy Tab 10.1 forum I was blocked because I'm new, and then when I went to fix a typo in a post I'd just made, it told me I had to wait FIVE minutes! Believe me, I understand what a problem spammers are. I am a moderator on another tech forum and I used to be a moderator for MTV. I get it. But treating all your new users as if they are spammers and making them jump through hoops or blocking them from being able to do simple things like share a screenshot just gives off a "we hate new users, we know you're all evil spammers so we hope this frustrates you enough to drive you away" vibe.
I understand that your rules are your rules and respect that, and I like it here. I just wanted to put in my two cents about the impression it gives new users.
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even though ive given you a thanks or this, i do believe its set correctly. This forum has soooooo many existing users plus the new ones joining everyday its very suprising how little advertising,spamming goes on here and i do think its contributed by the new user rules.
I myself have only ever been a mod for a 200+ forum and the amount of spam we had to delete each day was a joke, imagine how many links around the web lead to xda....the amount of spam this site would be suffering had they not placed these rules the xda maybe not what we all cherish today
edit "NOTE", lol just wait until you accidentally post in the wrong section

I understand your situation, considering that you have been a forum moderator in other forums
But when I was a new user i never got to enter any captcha or so !
I have no clue that Captcha was being used on XDA to be honest!
But one thing that can help you is that you can answer others's questions in the Q and A forum of the device(s) you own. Helps to get that 10 post thing done early, especially if you know enough to help someone else out
Anyways all the best and you can PM me if you need any more help or you may contact a senior admin
just my 2 (+1) cents p) and Peace!

I've never been a moderator for any forum and even I know the effect spammers can have if the proper procedures don't take place.
But you gotta know, it's only for a few posts...it's not like you'll be entering captcha codes in forever and never be able to share weblinks or screen shots.
Just ride it out, we all had to

Well, this is a touchy subject.
Being such a high traffic forum we really do need aggressive anti spam measures.
As for the restrictions on the development sections.... We'll that's also a touchy subject but for entirely different reasons.
Once upon a time XDA was populated solely by developers, developers who developed for no other reason than the love of developing. Then the smartphone became accessible to more and more people, which led to more and more members who weren't developers. This led to lots and lots of questions, many of which were placed in the development forums, which isn't the right place for non development related questions. Therefore a system was put in place which prevents new users from posting in the development sections with the intention of giving them the opportunity to get to know how XDA works before jumping straight in and spamming up the hallowed halls of the development forums.....
That's about it really.. Check out the sticky in this section for a more detailed explanation
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

I appreciate everyone's replies. I have no problem with the 10 posts before getting access to the developer's section. You certainly don't want anything but quality in a section like that.
I also understand the spam issue. One of my day jobs is as a staff writer for a blog hosted by a company that makes anti-spam software. I know more than I ever wanted to on the subject!
This is a great forum!

I agree
The forum is very anti-noob. I hate entering capta images that I can hardly read, can only post every 5 minutes, this really sucks. I hope when I hit 10 posts this crap goes away

I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.

Chaotic Peace said:
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
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most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .

i kind of like the idea of captcha on the first few post i may use it on my site. i have a xbox modding site and it generates a bit of spam from time to time.

webjunky said:
most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
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Yep, and at the same time most new users don't understand the concept of searching the forums so their first 10 posts which are asking rather than helping would probably have already been asked previously. i.e. forum gets cluttered up, which is pretty much a form of spam.

Chaotic Peace said:
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
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Yeah exactly! And making ten posts isn't that time consuming either at the same time.

webjunky said:
most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
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This is true as well. But if they need help they should be posting in the Q&A sections of their device not the development section.

I think the rules are there for a reason and the MODs and Admin have thought a lot on this issue and its only for first 10 posts.

It's not too bad, it's worth it.
---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 PM ----------
I think if people were able to sign in with their google accounts though there wouldn't be need for all this...

conantroutman said:
This led to lots and lots of questions, many of which were placed in the development forums, which isn't the right place for non development related questions. Therefore a system was put in place which prevents new users from posting in the development sections with the intention of giving them the opportunity to get to know how XDA works before jumping straight in and spamming up the hallowed halls of the development
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And now they post Questions in the general forums =.=
Sent from my E15i using Tapatalk

We're always trying to make things better on the forums. This means we have to try stuff to see if it works. It's basically trial & error for the most part.
The spamming has decreased alot the past couple of months with the new captchas and 10 post rule. Still, we need to find a way to make it less difficult to join our forums and more difficult to post spam. Ideas are always welcome of course.

Annoying for non noobs
I still haven't made my 10 posts because all the stuff I want to respond to is in the developer forums so now I have to search the boards for things to reply to to actually find something to respond even though I've been a member for over a year and a user of this website for a few years!
Whilst I understand the reasoning security vs usability can sometimes be a massive P.I.T.A

Slotty_AU said:
I still haven't made my 10 posts because all the stuff I want to respond to is in the developer forums so now I have to search the boards for things to reply to to actually find something to respond even though I've been a member for over a year and a user of this website for a few years!
Whilst I understand the reasoning security vs usability can sometimes be a massive P.I.T.A
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Is it so much to ask that you read for a bit first, pick up some knowledge and experience, help a few people in the 90+% of the site which is completely open to you such as your devices General or Q&A forums or any of the General discussion forums, to participate with quality posts instead of BS posts, in return for being able to post into any of the ROM threads from any dev on this site?

I've had the immense privilege of watching this site grow since just a couple months after it introduced a few new phone models to the original O2 XDA. I actually get my soap opera fix and tech fix all in one! I'm hooked.
It's not just spam. I was a horrendous new user, posting in the wrong forum, responding to emotional posts enough to encourage them, I even chewed out a guy for blasting a noob. The problem is organic, and though spam has become part of that (probably the hugest part, now) it's that organic nature of this forum that makes it so great. Really tough problem to grow something cleanly without squelching it.
I was wondering if XDA could track a user's searches, or forums "read" for more than a minute, and after 30 or so, then stop the captchas. It seems like over the years it's folks who don't search & read (spammers or otherwise) that are the detraction. Maybe something like being in "reader" status as a step to becoming a new user & able to post at all.
1. I could have used it.
2. I'm putting this here, in the weird forum for this topic it's in, to see what people think. Wanting to have input as a developer is definitely a magnification of the problem. I'm glad it's here.
(ThinkPad Tablet:Tapatalk 2)

XDA Feedback

Moderators: I understand that this post is in the wrong forum, yet there doesn't seem to be a "XDA feedback" forum so I have no idea what the proper location is. I hope that a helpful moderator will move it to a proper location AND let me know where that location is.
XDA has changed quite a bit over the years. It used to be a "developer" forum. These days, not so much. In fact, and this is my problem, it almost feels anti-developer these days. If that's what XDA wants, great. If not, please take the time to read this message written by a developer.
I've been around XDA for a very long time. I've been a programmer for a much longer time. I think it's important to at least mention my professional qualifications, as this is (or was?) a DEVELOPERS forum, and I've been doing development for over 20 years. Going back only 10 years, I worked for Electronic Arts developing video games for both PC's and consoles. Unlike development here, game development has to be done right the FIRST time. There's no way to patch a game burned on to a cDROM for a console such as the original playstation, nor a way to fix a Nintendo64 cartrigde. (BTW, that was really a "rom" - not the firmware people call "roms" here on XDA.) I've also done quite a bit of development in various Windows CE platforms, including PocketPC (when I first started with XDA!) My current job has me doing (among other things) development on iOS, Android, and Windows Mobile. It's a very safe assumption that I'm extremely fluent with development on handheld devices.
Of course, as a hobby, I mostly work with Android these days. I've shared my work with people on XDA and rootzwiki, and when the changes could be applied to AOSP, I've shared them with CM and AOKP projects - as well as directly with Google via their gerrit system.
No, I don't have a "recognized developer" tag on XDA. I've never actually applied for it and currently have no interest in doing so. Part of my reason for that decision is that I feel XDA has given that tag out too freely. They've given it to people who don't actually do development, but just "kang" other people's work in order to collection donations. (I also don't accept donations, instead prefering people to send that money to real charities.) That's a different subject...
So, the purpose of this (already rambling) post is to try and give some feedback on the "current state" of XDA in general, of some of the moderators in particular, and to ask for a clear, consistent and easily understood set of guidelines.
I'm an engineer, and if the rules are fuzzy, it's impossible to clearly follow them.
So, here we go...
For any given phone model, there is a "general" subforum that is used for threads like "Post pictures of your phone" and "Where to buy this phone." Then there's a Q&A subforum that, I think, is where newbies are told to go to ask questions (and then other newbies respond with nasty replies.) There's a "development" subforum that, despite its name, is not to discuss development, but apparently only to post finished things. What those "things" are is a subject of debate, and I've heard many different things from different moderators. There might be an "original development" subforum which, I think, is used for development done from source (as opposed to modifying stock firmware?) Finally, a "themes and apps" subforum for theming existing work and misc applications.
There really is no place to discuss DEVELOPMENT for a device. Really, talking about the IO registers for a given device doesn't belong in the same place as "post pictures of your phone", and gets lost in the newbie questions in the Q&A subforum. Where does a developer discuss development for a specific platform? There's also no good place to share methods for doing development. For example, what's the best subforum for "HOWTO configure a N7100 kernel to work with stock firmware"? How about a thread that discusses how to modify the CSC files on a samsung firmware to enable features hidden by AT&T?
This all leads me back to the existing "development" subforum. At least for samsung devices, these generally end up being like an app-store for themed stock firmwares. (I refuse to call it a ROM when it's not "read-only.") There isn't any clear rule on what, exactly, is put in this subforum. One moderator posted "For something you CREATED." Well, not a single poster on XDA created touchwiz - they only modify it. Another moderator said "The only thing in Development will be true development. Roms and kernels." Well, tweaking touchwiz isn't really "true" development, is it?
Taking those two posts together, and combining with the current reality (at least in the samsung device forums), it appears that the "development" forum is used for modified stock firmware. However, at what level? I've seen people deodex a touchwiz stock firmware, change the "build.prop" and post it in development. Others take that same deodex'd firmware, modifying a couple of apk's, and post that there. Is this "development?" If so, what about if the person only posted the apk's that they modified without forcing the users to take the entire package? I've seen this frequenty in the development forum, but apparently this is a case where some moderators have different rules than others. From a DEVELOPER point of view, the latter is better as it gives people the chance to have the modifications they want and not the ones they don't want.
You see, the "rules" are vague.
There needs to be a clear and precise set of guidelines on what these subforums are for - and those guidelines posted in the general forum rules where everyone can read them. As well, I think it would help prevent the issue of each moderator having a different interpretation of what post belongs in what forum. Oh, and if someone actually does this, please include a note telling developers where they are allowed to discuss development.
That leads, of course, to the current XDA moderators. Honestly, there are too many and they apparently aren't given clear guidance.
I'm playing around with the AT&T Note2, and I think there are currently 5-7 active moderators each enforcing their own interpretation of the rules in that forum. As a user of the forum, I've learned to expect that each moderator has a different style and different view of the rules, but at least one of those moderators isn't even consistent in his own enforcement. If two threads are nearly identical, and one is closed for "meaningless content", why isn't the other one also closed? The best part was when I sent a PRIVATE message to that moderator pointing this out, the response I got was "Sir, your thoughts should be kept to yourself." As well, this moderator informed me that "the report system on XDA is not for making a statement and or to submit feedback." (Okay... that's a new rule.) I think it's probably significant that this particular moderator seems to have something personal against me. Not sure what or why. Honestly, at this point, I don't even care why.
So, here I am as a developer. I'm on a forum called "xda-developers" (And I've been here for over 6 years.) However, I feel at this point that this "developers" forum is no longer targeting developers. In fact, it appears to be chasing them away. I've had development discussion threads shut down by non-developer moderators. I've had my threads where I share my development work moved around (out of "development".) and been told by that moderator to keep my feedback to myself. (That's from a PRIVATE MESSAGE!!!!)
Why are forums like "rootzwiki" becoming so popular? Perhaps it's due to the lack of developer friendliness here on XDA.
Personally, I REALLY hate to see XDA going this way. I've been here a long time and while I have no hope of seeing it be the way it once was, it can still be a development forum. Why isn't it?
Yes, this message is being written in response to something that happened. However, that was only the "straw that broke the camels back" so to speak. This is something that's been building up for at least a year.
For now, I've pulled my contributions for the AT&T note2 down from XDA. At this point, I'm not even sure which location they should be posted in (and I have moderators telling me different things.) I'd pull down my other stuff from other devices, but most are out of date by now, so there's really no point.
As well, I have a specific moderator in this set of forums who seems to have an issue with me personally. Right now, I need to back away and cool off.

Gary - there IS an XDA general discussion forum that you apparently missed - http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=263
As to the RD tag - if you recall my currently ongoing G+ saga, I did mention that the RD program had some serious issues at the end of 2011. That was why the ERD program was created, and also why the rules for becoming an RD were made stricter/clearer about a month ago. (With the addition of RC/RT tiers, it's easier to "raise the bar" for RD since there are now lower titles available to those who don't quite make the cut.)
I think some aspects of XDA's process might need to be better documented/clearer - for example, I wasn't even aware of the "Moderator Committee" account until today. I knew there WAS a Moderator Committee, but didn't know exactly who was on it, and that there was a "catchall" account for PMing them all simultaneously.
Unfortunately, I think the rules are indeed unclear in terms of, for example, single-APK modifications. In the I9100 forums, these seem to be split 50/50 between "Themes and Apps" and "Development" - The defining line for some of these is so vague that usually, the moderators let it go unless it's obvious. For example, if you just replaced graphics assets in something, it obviously belongs in "Themes and Apps". If you did smali hacks - it's borderline. In my opinion, if you just post a smali-hacked APK, it goes in T&A. If you actually documented the process for performing the modification so others could apply it to different devices/firmware images, then it probably is justified as "Development". Knowing your past work and ethics, I'm assuming your modifications were from the latter category, however I currently can't review them.

Damn, you're right - I did miss that forum. Well, between the PM I sent to "moderator committee" and its somewhat obvious location here, I'm sure it'll get moved soon (and I'm good with that.)
As for RD - I'll save that for another day.
Take care
Gary

I've moved this thread into the General 'General' section. Gary has some good points, I also think it's strange that development, real development, discussions have no real place other than General, where good work can easily get lost - however, if you have an issue with a moderator you need to take that up with the moderator - you can, of course, report your issues to the Moderator Committee as Entropy has mentioned.

reinbeau said:
I've moved this thread into the General 'General' section. Gary has some good points, I also think it's strange that development, real development, discussions have no real place other than General, where good work can easily get lost - however, if you have an issue with a moderator you need to take that up with the moderator - you can, of course, report your issues to the Moderator Committee as Entropy has mentioned.
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Ann, I TRIED taking it up with that moderator in a private message and was ripped by that person for doing so. I was told to keep my thoughts to myself and that I wasn't supposed to submit feedback.

garyd9 said:
Ann, I TRIED taking it up with that moderator in a private message and was ripped by that person for doing so. I was told to keep my thoughts to myself and that I wasn't supposed to submit feedback.
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THAT particular issue, in my opinion, was uncalled for. (uncalled for from the Moderator you tried to work things out with, not uncalled for from you.)

Thank you for the second move. I just hope it's read by the proper people.
Take care
Gary

The correct process is to direct this sort of thing to the Moderator Committee. Especially make sure to include the PM from the FSM.

jerdog said:
Especially make sure to include the PM from the FSM.
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Pardon my ignorance... "FSM"?

Would it be helpful to post the pmid's of the PM's sent back and forth?
(If I post the pmid's in this thread, can a moderator access them but not anyone else? I don't think it'd be appropriate to post the contents of all the PM's in a public location. I've also very carefully avoiding calling out the name of the moderator.)
Also, the issue that that moderator is only a very small part of the overall thing. If there were CLEAR rules to begin with, I think there'd be less of an issue with specific moderators.

Gary, please either forward your concerns about specific moderators to myself or another member of the moderator committee via pm when you have the chance.
Although it sometimes might not seem like it I can assure you that we intend to keep xda as developer orientated as we possibly can, however we cannot do that without feedback from people such as yourself.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

Sorry, I see you've already sent a pm to the mod committee account. Disregard my last post. Well, the first part anyway.....
That's what I get for skimming the thread.....
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

I've sent you a PM, conantroutman. If there's anything else I can do for that particular issue, please let me know.

In my post, I mentioned the inconsistency of the moderating and dealing with the so-called "Development" subforums. I had a post moved out of that subforum and was told (among other things) that "The only thing in Development will be true development. Roms and kernels."
Since that time, a few other threads have been posted in there.
One is nothing more than a deodex of the stock firmware. No "development" in running a deodex script. (I had to deodex the stuff I posted before working on it... no effort there.)
Another is (and this is some high end "development") an empty edify zip file. I'm serious. Someone made a generic .zip file that has nothing in the /system directory, but will copy everything from that (empty) directory to the device system directory.
Finally, there's a thread with modem dumps. Seriously, a "development" subforum thread containing dumps of a "dd" command.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1986556
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1986645
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1986480
If I'm going to be attacked and have my threads moved when they involve actual development effort (even if it's only a single apk), then I don't see how purely stock stuff or empty shells are permitted. At least what I posted changes the behavior of the device when installed.
I'm not even sure who or what to blame for this. Is it that a specific moderator was attacking my post? Was it that each moderator has a different idea of what goes where? Is it that the rules are so vague that it's perfectly reasonable for a moderator to roll dice to decide if a thread should be moved?
This message isn't to attack the posts above. Personally, I think the development subforum is a reasonable place for at least the first two. (The modem dumps should probably be a sticky in the general subforum based on what I've seen in the past.) However, based on the guidelines quoted to me by moderators of XDA, none of this stuff should be in there.
I really hope this gets addressed.
Gary

Some rather interesting points being made here which I think we, XDA, should take on board. We obviously want XDA to be easy to navigate through, plus we also want it to be easy for people to contact us (The MC) amongst others
Personally, I thought it was rather easy and straight forward, but then again I've been here for years, it may not be so easy for others, especially new users
I'm going to create a new thread in the "About XDA" forum asking for users to give feedback or recommendations on site layout, contacts, procedures etc?
I hope you add any thoughts you may have
Rick
Moderator Committee

Here's the kinds of things that this leads to:
I'd like to post a thread trying to document and catalog the CSC variables in a samsung stock firmware, how to change them, and the impacts of changing them. This single set of variables can change nearly any aspect of a phone from what settings are available for the user to what color scheme the stock email app uses.
Which subforum does it get put in? Its certainly targeted for development purposes. Does it get put into "general" (and get lost in the clutter of "Post pictures you take with your phone")? It's certainly not a theme. I have NO IDEA the proper place to put this, and now I wonder if it's easier to just not contribute to XDA than to waste my time trying to navigate the mess.
This one amuses me: There are now SEVERAL threads in that development subforum I had my stuff moved from that are nearly identical to a post I made (and which was moved out of dev.) I mentioned these via PM to one of the moderators who supported moving my stuff before. He responded that he'd look into those new posts last night. Yet, they (and many more) are still there without being moved.
What message should I take from that?

I think you're touching on one of those issues where XDA's growth has caused difficulties to manage things, and an ideal solution has yet to be determined.
For example, on the topics of how certain types of development discussion (like figuring out a register map) might not be considered "development" in the current rules even though they should be - If you don't use the current rules, what DO you use? If you're not careful, you wind up with Development subsections cluttered with threads of "Let's fix X" (even though we have no clue how) - Some users consider that "development" even if they're in WAY above their heads and the thread has zero actual development.
It helps when moderators for a forum are developers themselves. It helps them make those "grey area" calls - as a result the I9100 forums are in pretty good shape because a number of the I9100 moderators were experienced developers, and a few senior moderators/admins owned the I9100 and hence hung out in those forums. (For example: Pulser). But as XDA grows, it's harder to get FSMs that have development experience for all forums, without overloading them and frying their brains.
What's the answer? I don't know - but please keep in mind that unfortunately, for some of these, there is no easy answer.
BTW, there is some planned rework for organization of the "Development" sections that was mentioned in the "Future" part of Jerdog's "XDA: Past, Present, and Future" presentation at BABBQ. Unfortunately, issues with the conference center network prevented the talk from being recorded/streamed as was originally planned. BTW, this is one reason I think you should apply for RD status - some issues like this are things that do get discussed in the RD forums.
As to your example of CSC modification - I think a comprehensive guide for this WOULD be highly useful. The problem is, you know that within days, someone will see that and throw up a "hey everyone, throw this **** in your build.prop and it'll be AWESUM!!1!!!1!1!" thread... A detailed technical analysis of each entry and what it does would be something I'd consider "development" especially if some research needed to be done (including baksmali'ing, etc.) to determine something's true function - but just "OMG THIS WILL MAKE UR PHONE AWESUM!!11!!!!" threads wouldn't be... And that's the problem, how do you let the former reside in Development without the latter creeping in? Decisions like that are going to be difficult for many moderators.

Entropy512 said:
And that's the problem, how do you let the former reside in Development without the latter creeping in? Decisions like that are going to be difficult for many moderators.
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Perhaps some form of OP moderated post? Any replies are reviewed by the OP before being visible. Sadly, I don't think XDA's forum software supports this type of thing.
As an alternative, a thread locked to all but the OP. The person who started the thread states that comments/additions should be sent via PM and will be added if deemed appropriate. (I read somewhere that RD's can moderate their own threads... if true, that might be the perfect solution.)
There'd still need to be some moderation, as surely as I write this, you'll have certain people starting those types of threads everyplace one doesn't already exist regardless of their own ability to test things, etc. (Just look at how any time a new device section is added even weeks before anyone has the device, there are instantly "post your homescreens", "guide to kernels/roms" and other things the mods only allow one of.)
Oh, and Entropy512... sorry about trying to give you more work in that other thread that Fallen Spartan started.

Entropy512 said:
BTW, this is one reason I think you should apply for RD status - some issues like this are things that do get discussed in the RD forums.
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Heh - at this point, I doubt that would happen. In the past 2 days, I've managed to get quite a few people on XDA pissed at me. It's not that I've tried to, just that I got to the mental point of speaking "plainly" instead of trying to be politically correct.
As well, and to be completely fair, I haven't been posting most of my code contributions here on XDA lately. Then again, there's no good place to post things like "add support for sms messaging over bluetooth" on XDA. It's not product by itself, but something that needs to be compiled into a larger project - hence there's no home for it here.
(I'm (perhaps incorrectly assuming that the RD program on XDA depends on a certain number of things posted here on XDA.)

Hi Gary,
First of all, I'd just like to say that I've read through your posts in this thread and the "feedback/ recommendations for xda" thread and you've had some great thoughts and ideas which I reckon could definitely improve certain aspects of this site. The main problem just seems to be putting it into action and making sure the ides stays as true as possible to what it's meant to be, rather than filter off into something which will fizzle out and have nothing more mentioned about it.
Now onto the suggestion of OP moderated posts.
While this could be a great idea on other forums, I don't really think it's feasible here on XDA.
If a thread is at the stage where it may be needed for the OP to review what posts are allowed, that is the exact same moment when that idea would simply become unmanageable.
I think this because no matter what the persons "level" on XDA is, there would be too many posts to review to give them time to do anything else. This is especially true for those who are developers, not just RDs.
As a result of it being too much for them to handle, things would revert back to the system currently in place. We've then gained nothing.
The same would also ring true if OPs would need to add posts themselves, out of all the PMs they'd received. Even if the OP of a thread was happy to wade through all the PMs they receive, it's quite easy to accidentally miss some messages.
Even mods have missed a message of mine at times simply because they have loads come through. The OP would surely have even more PMs come through meaning that loads more messages could be skipped by accident.
And yes, RDs can moderate their own threads but only to the extent of closing/reopening it. They can't remove comments like moderators can.
James
''Absolute power corrupts absolutely, but absolute powerlessness does the same''