Develop Bugs

LOOK HERE WM7 photon build for hermes

Im sure that got your attention...
There seems to be some recent issues with the massive amounts of new members that just learned how to type but dont know how to read or click the search button located in the upper right corner of your screen...
Now look, enough is enough, if your not going to read, or search, or post things in the proper threads then dont ***** when your being flamed... This forum has very simple rules and i used to think they werent hard to follow...
some of you will say, "The search button doesnt work, just brings up a bunch of junk and i have to sift through useless threads and cant find what i am looking for".... anyone wanna guess why?!? its because of the people that post without reading, its becoming a cluttered mess and a few noob's short of xda-developers.howardsforums.com
So some suggestions before you post:
Search
Read the f*cking wiki
Make your posting it in the right thread
If you have to start a new topic then make sure you include very detailed information if you want help, otherwise you will be ignored
If you like a rom then dont waste thread space by telling the creator how much you like the rom, update your signature and proudly display what rom you are using, or donate some $ to XDA, or to the creator(s)
Be smart and the other members will play nice
Oh one other thing to the frequent senior members (or the ones that dont post useless ****)
Instead of flaming on the noob's(which i know is fun ) could we just ignore them instead? im shooting for a less hostile enviroment.
p.s. any useless replies to this topic could be subject to edit

my new hero
dude you are so my new hero

A heuristic noob post filter would be nice, automatically diverting such posts to the New Beginners Forum called /dev/null . . . or "Recycle Bin" for you Windows guys

Yes, lately there have been a huge number of new members, and yes, the noob questions are sometimes annoying.
But to
3) Flame the crap out of them
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is in my opinion not the right way to react.
Some more or less senior members have tried that in the last few weeks, and it didn't work - there are still as many noob posts as there were before.
But that approach definitely changed this place - from being a friendly and helpful forum to a hostile place full of foul language and an arrogance from some "senior" members who seem to think newcomers are inferior human beings. You know, there are areas where the Wiki has outdated or incomplete information, so "Read The F*ing Wiki" is not always the appropriate answer.
And even in cases where it is, insulting people like it has become standard here by a few "senior" members is extremely rude, and for me is not an acceptable way of communication.
Thanks for listening,
Daniel

tadzio said:
But that approach definitely changed this place - from being a friendly and helpful forum to a hostile place full of foul language and an arrogance from some "senior" members who seem to think newcomers are inferior human beings. You know, there are areas where the Wiki has outdated or incomplete information, so "Read The F*ing Wiki" is not always the appropriate answer.
And even in cases where it is, insulting people like it has become standard here by a few "senior" members is extremely rude, and for me is not an acceptable way of communication.
Thanks for listening,
Daniel
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I totally agree with you, moderators or seniors should never use such language, no matter hoe right they are.
Shogunmark and some other "seniors", you should be ashamed of yourself...

pietrucci said:
I totally agree with you, moderators or seniors should never use such language, no matter hoe right they are.
Shogunmark and some other "seniors", you should be ashamed of yourself...
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Just to clarify: my comment wasn't directed towards shogunmark. In the first post of this thread, he also asks senior members to stop flaming noobs.

that might not be in a proper place to say , i may sound noob .
but i have a suggestion , why don't you make a spam bot like some forums do .
that spam bot detects autimatically any posts by the same user if they are close in time of posting ,
example : user named Noob posted 4 threads with the same exact content in less than 10 minutes .
"hi i'm noob and i don't know **** in this forum and i'm having fun ."
so the spam bot detect this noob posts and informs the moderators of it .
i hope it might help .
WBR

shogunmark said:
some of you will say, "The search button doesnt work, just brings up a bunch of junk and i have to sift through useless threads and cant find what i am looking for".... anyone wanna guess why?!? its because of the people that post without reading, its becoming a cluttered mess and a few noob's short of xda-developers.howardsforums.com
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in point of fact, the search button is "useless" because it defaults to the "show thread" mode in displaying query results. the "show thread" search result display mode presents only the topic ("thread / thread starter") under which the relevant result was posted (and thus only the ability to click into the thread from the first post). the response to any given query is therefore a list of top-level post titles (topics) which may or may not have relevance to the more deeply-nestled posts that the search engine has deemed pertinent to the user's inputted keywords/constraints. this is exacerbated by the default forum settings, which yield in excess of 50 display pages for many threads-- a condition that becomes all the more likely when a thread generates a lot of traffic/discourse (i.e.; when a thread might likely contain a worthwhile and relevant search result).
i find search results displayed in this fashion to be utterly useless. if i'm looking for an answer to question A, which was raised under topic X three weeks and 400 posts after the thread began, i'll never find it. i'd probably then start a new thread with just that already-answered question as it's topic-- certainly and evidently to the chagrin of moderators forum-wide, but within their power to remedy.
incidentally, what if any advantage is there to the default display method? i may be showing some naivete here, but i've never found it at all useful (quite the contrary); i use the forum's search engine only and precisely in those cases where my brain's proprietary search agency has failed-- that is, *because* no thread topic seems applicable to my question, i pose it to the engine, and on its default setting, it responds by reiterating the top-level subjects i've already discarded.
that is the very definition of uselessness in search results, the blame for which, i think, does not lay with new users as you claim, but with a (seemingly?) foolish server setting.
shogunmark said:
Instead of flaming on the noob's(which i know is fun ) could we just ignore them instead? im shooting for a less hostile enviroment.
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it's never the new users who are hostile, though, is it? in fact, they're usually overly obsequious, probably owing to the fact that every time in the past that they've asked a question of one of the hallowed mobile-device-forum moderators, they've been made to feel stupid for lacking experience enough to solve their own problem. systematic ignorance of any one sector of the mobile device community would conspicuously diminish the broad appeal and utility of xda-developers amazing wealth of techknowledge.

Simple. When people register - send them an email that explains some of the forum do's and don'ts and how to search for individual posts.

I never meant for this to spark such a debate,
the point i wanted to make was this is a "technical development forum" and should be treated as such
if the situation spirals into too much garbage then the people who actually contribute to this community might give up due to frustration that could have otherwise been avoided.
i much prefer to be a forum troll rather than a post count hungry noise creator.
But at the moment even being a reader not poster sucks
/rant

endipott said:
in point of fact, the search button is "useless" because it defaults to the "show thread" mode in displaying query results. the "show thread" search result display mode presents only the topic ("thread / thread starter") under which the relevant result was posted (and thus only the ability to click into the thread from the first post). the response to any given query is therefore a list of top-level post titles (topics) which may or may not have relevance to the more deeply-nestled posts that the search engine has deemed pertinent to the user's inputted keywords/constraints. this is exacerbated by the default forum settings, which yield in excess of 50 display pages for many threads-- a condition that becomes all the more likely when a thread generates a lot of traffic/discourse (i.e.; when a thread might likely contain a worthwhile and relevant search result).
i find search results displayed in this fashion to be utterly useless. if i'm looking for an answer to question A, which was raised under topic X three weeks and 400 posts after the thread began, i'll never find it. i'd probably then start a new thread with just that already-answered question as it's topic-- certainly and evidently to the chagrin of moderators forum-wide, but within their power to remedy.
Blah blah blah
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Have you never seen the link for "SEARCH THIS THREAD"? its not hard.
I want to know, mmm, which SPL to use, i get a myriad of search results, some CLEARLY from the headers useful.
However, i've searched something a little more ambigeuos, i find and open what i feel are relevant threads, then search them. The 5 mins it takes to do that search will 99.9% of the time result in an answer, and take them less time than waiting for someone to answer.
Currently there are a massive amoun tof new idiots on the forums. Im fairly new myself, but i read the Wiki, read most of the current threads and searched before i asked for something. Its not hard.
Personally i think the forum needs for stronger moderation, in that users are given a three strike rule. Post utter rubbish without searchinig three times, and they become banned.
Clearly anyone not capable of the simplest of forum ettiqette doesnt belong here and will never really contribute anything.

tadzio
you dont have to be politically correct, you can name me as being a senior member who uses foul language. the fact of the matter is i dont give a crap!. i have to deal with hundreds of PM's per day asking the darn same thing and its getting frikken annoying.
i think from this point forward i will hold off on new builds of wm6 till this forum gets sorted.
One thing you have to realise, these noobs who ask the same darn thing over and over again are mostly (not all) here NOT to contribute to the vast pool of knowledge, they are here to frikken leach, then if something dont work for them they frikken complain, *****, winge, and post numerious threads and posts.
I am not ashamed of myself because i dont give a ****.... i think i got the right to use foul language when enough is enough.,
my ****en 2cents worth!
anybody doest like what i am saying can go **** themselves and use wm5! Welcome to the Land Down Under ****wits!
tadzio said:
Yes, lately there have been a huge number of new members, and yes, the noob questions are sometimes annoying.
But to
is in my opinion not the right way to react.
Some more or less senior members have tried that in the last few weeks, and it didn't work - there are still as many noob posts as there were before.
But that approach definitely changed this place - from being a friendly and helpful forum to a hostile place full of foul language and an arrogance from some "senior" members who seem to think newcomers are inferior human beings. You know, there are areas where the Wiki has outdated or incomplete information, so "Read The F*ing Wiki" is not always the appropriate answer.
And even in cases where it is, insulting people like it has become standard here by a few "senior" members is extremely rude, and for me is not an acceptable way of communication.
Thanks for listening,
Daniel
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Tadzio,
the wiki might be outdated with some information but not the basic! which is the answers to 90% of the questions asked! Im with Jaz in that they are here for one thing and thats to leech and leave, if there is a problem then ***** and whinge... i thought this was 'xda-developers' not 'xda-noobs', i have some patience for noobs for resonable questions but when they download a ROM and cannot be bothered to read the 'How To' and where to post sections enough is enough... its hard enough for us Cookers to keep track of real bugs and issues enough without sifting through useless threads about crap.
i came here for one thing to broaden my knowledge of PDA's and Windows Mobile and i have learnt so much from this site, because i read and read before posting.
I am not ashamed of the way i speak to ppl who dont take the time to read the pages that we write to help benefit the noobs in the first place.
my ****n two cents!

tadzio said:
Just to clarify: my comment wasn't directed towards shogunmark. In the first post of this thread, he also asks senior members to stop flaming noobs.
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This was so funny ...
Oops, sorry but I really couldn't help it.
Mr Tadzio just means well. You can see he does not want to offend anyone as you can see from his immediate note.
I'm also a newbie, as you can see from the amount of my posts, but I really really really try to search and read everything you guys post. It is a difficult task, though, to encourage everyone to read, read and read and then ask questions later but I guess nothing comes easy.
I also like the 'heuristic programming' to block noobs from posting. Hilarious. Like, you can create key phrases like 'how do you hard-reset' or 'where are the office applications' and just block them from posting. haha

jasjamming said:
Welcome to the Land Down Under ****wits!
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That must be from the live version of the Men At Work song...

junior my self
I agree with the senior members, Mods, as a junior I flashed my universal countless of times without asking too much questions on the board it just took time reading through the wiki and sometimes reading through the posts relating to topics you want your question to be answered.
Having bought my new MDA Vario II it took me one week reading through the wiki, forums almost everything topic relating to Upgrading my device and the risks involved, since my first flash i havent encounter any bad flash of sort.
I read through the posts every hour and sometimes, I get irritated of the questions been asked repeatedly, so in terms of the senior members, Rom Cookers devoting thier own time giving us thier great work to share and let our devices look and feel as if it couldnt be better the least we do is just read, think and just before posting just think ( Is this question been mentioned before?)
I think the Mods,senior members should introduce some sort of membership before registering to new or to make it fair even existing members as to lessen new members who just want to come and go when they find what they want and also this would incorporate fundings towards XDA DEVELOPERS,
jUST MY 5CENTS

where can I download photon....
Eh?

.... seriously though... I used to have problems with the search function - hadnt taken the time to use the "show posts" option rather than the "show threads". Once I'd made the switch.. easy street...

mxlaser said:
Have you never seen the link for "SEARCH THIS THREAD"? its not hard.
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yes, we'll i spent about a year on the site thinking i couldn't use the search function at all because of the issue discussed above, only to recently discover the "search posts" option. you've just blown my mind with that "search thread." maybe now i'll be able to enable the internal gps on the hermes or successfully cook a simple damn ext_rom. ok, so i really missed the boat on the search functionality, but this illuminates the apparently widespread issue of search confusion, no? there is no treatment on queries in the wiki of any kind, aimed either at beginners or SQL engineers. i'm really rather technologically adept (notwithstanding present evidence to the contrary) and for whatever reason, i, too, managed to miss those functions. now, granted, in two years this is the first discussion i've been involved in, so obviously i worked silently through that very newbish failure to read the whole page without disturbing any other community members, but we can't expect all people who find themselves in the possession of a PPC to be able to immediately comprehend all that's needed in order for them to even begin to practically consider messing with the device.
unwired's point here is "simple," (as advertised) but really kind of elegant. i'd maybe extend it thus: perhaps someone (i clearly am not qualified, having missed that button which would have saved me many fruitless google domain searches) should draft a wiki treatment of the query interface. perhaps another could take up general forum ettiquette. mxlaser, maybe you could take up an introduction to SPL. make each section efficient and accurate, and call it the "new member welcome package." update the FAQ. do these things, and then you have a right to "flame" users who abrogate those then explicitly-posted regulations.
ultimately, the only way to ensure that threads stay on topic and avoid duplication is to heavily moderate. intrusive measures like probationary no-posting periods for new users run counter to the underlying concept of this type of web forum. i don't know how any system of regulations would or could work, but moderators should at least be deleting off-topic posts, and removing those other posts, too. you know the ones, where established users get all angry at a newbie for something or other and wax profane about how that newbie might better spend his time? yeah, well, those just waste more of everyone else's. if someone wants to give me privileges, i'd take on the challenge of cleaning up a little corner of the xda universe.
just as long as we're all on about the moderators, i think we should remember something my grandpa used to say: "everything in moderation, including moderation..."
oh also quickly:
mxlaser said:
Clearly anyone not capable of the simplest of forum ettiqette doesnt belong here and will never really contribute anything.
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in which canon of bulletin-board etiquette did you read that it was acceptable to intentionally misquote the person to whom you are responding? ["blah blah blah"] that seems to me to be a pretty simple, basic, fundamental requirement of discussion forums in general, i.e.: respect the written record... it looks as if you're behind in the count; you'd better protect the plate...

Can the board software be modded to set search posts as default?

Changes to rules, practices and standards while on XDA?

Have there been some rule, practices or standards changes to how members should be interacting on the forums of XDA?
More now than ever I see an increase in moved threads, derogatory comments from older members and a lack of consistency in regulating and allowing questions, answers and comments to be made on the forums. Is this a fabrication of my own mind or has there been an increase that other have noted?
If there have been changes and if there has been an increase in complaint about usage of the forums, conduct, etc, than why have members not received an updated TOS or an email indicating what the changes are? Why are pinned, stickied threads not universally posted across forums so all members see them regardless of what sub-forum they are in?
In other words, why for 4 years does the forum seem polite, friendly and awesome but today I fear to press SUBMIT on anything?
Is the community being stiffled because there are so many new HTC users and they are newbs and taking advantage of the positive community that XDA is?
Anyway I hope that XDA is not seeing an influx of stupidity in it's user community and thus causing pain to the real heroes on this forum. Some of us have politely used this forum as a resource and LIFE SAFER for our devices and we definately don't want things to change.
Thanks for any input to help me ease back into posting and having dialogs with the rom devs and cooks.

On my personal opinion, I´m not a Mod or Dev, I´m just a simple member
Of course XDA-DEVS has been changing and adapting
Is not the same to have a site with 30 members with more personal and friendly contact between them than to have a site with hundreds of users...
personal friendly contact of course is lost in certain way, I don´t mean that XDA is not friendly anymore, but rules must change and adapt to the big site that has become now
Of course more rules have to apply.
Also imagine you are a Mod and you find that in a year you answered the same question like 1000 times!, of course you´ll be more sensitive when someone ask the same again.
80% of the members here never READ the rules so they don´t care about them, they just want to be attended and answered by their personal needs
In a few words only a few people really respect this site.
Just my personal point of view, not intend to offend anyone
Cheers,

There have been a lot of threads being moved to help with the organization. Mainly with the floods of anonymous questions in the wrong areas.

One major problem seems to be the people who never think to read the wiki, seems that 90% of the 'help' posts could have been answered by looking at the wiki.
(I'm definitely a wiki fan as it helped me to learn to flash my phone correctly).
I imagine the problem is that now these phones are more accessible to a wider public, people turn up without any real idea of how things function in here (and indeed in many forums of all sorts).
I've only been here a short while & at first (after learning how to modify my device) did try to answer a few questions with links to the wiki, but after a few days I've become lazy when I see those 'help ! my phone is bricked !' type threads. Which is actually pretty crap on my part as I'm a noob who learnt by looking (& has still much to learn & look through) & I should make an effort to help out other noobs & relieve a bit of the pressure off the older members & mods.
Maybe an idea would be that someone (or some people) could make a small section of noob help to be added to the first mail a member receives when signing up. It could contain links to the wikis & the general hints upon searching before asking obvious questions.

That´s the main problem
Nobody READS, so if more threads pointing to the Wiki are created is going to be the same, noobs will not READ, because as I´ve said before only a few members really care for this site, the mayority only cares for it´s own device problems, want to be answered and in the best case you get a thank you...

Thresher said:
Have there been some rule, practices or standards changes to how members should be interacting on the forums of XDA?
More now than ever I see an increase in moved threads, derogatory comments from older members and a lack of consistency in regulating and allowing questions, answers and comments to be made on the forums. Is this a fabrication of my own mind or has there been an increase that other have noted?
If there have been changes and if there has been an increase in complaint about usage of the forums, conduct, etc, than why have members not received an updated TOS or an email indicating what the changes are? Why are pinned, stickied threads not universally posted across forums so all members see them regardless of what sub-forum they are in?
In other words, why for 4 years does the forum seem polite, friendly and awesome but today I fear to press SUBMIT on anything?
Is the community being stiffled because there are so many new HTC users and they are newbs and taking advantage of the positive community that XDA is?
Anyway I hope that XDA is not seeing an influx of stupidity in it's user community and thus causing pain to the real heroes on this forum. Some of us have politely used this forum as a resource and LIFE SAFER for our devices and we definately don't want things to change.
Thanks for any input to help me ease back into posting and having dialogs with the rom devs and cooks.
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Please See:
TheChampJT said:
There have been a lot of threads being moved to help with the organization. Mainly with the floods of anonymous questions in the wrong areas.
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Click to collapse
aE3-ink said:
One major problem seems to be the people who never think to read the wiki, seems that 90% of the 'help' posts could have been answered by looking at the wiki.
(I'm definitely a wiki fan as it helped me to learn to flash my phone correctly).
I imagine the problem is that now these phones are more accessible to a wider public, people turn up without any real idea of how things function in here (and indeed in many forums of all sorts).
I've only been here a short while & at first (after learning how to modify my device) did try to answer a few questions with links to the wiki, but after a few days I've become lazy when I see those 'help ! my phone is bricked !' type threads. Which is actually pretty crap on my part as I'm a noob who learnt by looking (& has still much to learn & look through) & I should make an effort to help out other noobs & relieve a bit of the pressure off the older members & mods.
Maybe an idea would be that someone (or some people) could make a small section of noob help to be added to the first mail a member receives when signing up. It could contain links to the wikis & the general hints upon searching before asking obvious questions.
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orb3000 said:
That´s the main problem
Nobody READS, so if more threads pointing to the Wiki are created is going to be the same, noobs will not READ, because as I´ve said before only a few members really care for this site, the mayority only cares for it´s own device problems, want to be answered and in the best case you get a thank you...
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So yeah, there have been an influx of "stupid" newbs. people who take without regard for the informal structure that has existed for years.
There haven't been any Changed to the Rules. Just maybe MORE enforcement to respond to MORE infractions.

orb3000 said:
That´s the main problem
Nobody READS, so if more threads pointing to the Wiki are created is going to be the same, noobs will not READ, because as I´ve said before only a few members really care for this site, the mayority only cares for it´s own device problems, want to be answered and in the best case you get a thank you...
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What I meant was to not create new threads but answering the posts with the link to the wiki. I just did a few here :
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=481763
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=481739
Mainly trying to make them go to the wiki to find their answer.
I guess it's doing half the work for them but I can imagine that some people come along & aren't used to digging around & sometimes need a wee shove to help them along.
Of course some just don't care & I imagine you long timers & mods/admin get really tired of them, so us newer members should start to help out even if it is only in a small way.

orb3000 said:
Of course more rules have to apply.
Also imagine you are a Mod and you find that in a year you answered the same question like 1000 times!, of course you´ll be more sensitive when someone ask the same again.
80% of the members here never READ the rules so they don´t care about them, they just want to be attended and answered by their personal needs
In a few words only a few people really respect this site.
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Good point, well taken.

Thanks, for the input. I do appreciate it.

Actually, if you read the guidelines Peter P wrote all them years ago they still apply.
For example:
1. Check if something hasn't been asked before - a lot of the mod activity is enforcing this, removing / closing redundant questions that already have answers. The other day I closed a thread with the answer of the wiki home page, nothing more (I was feeling mean ), and 10 minutes later I saw the user download the software they asked for - they must have found the software by searching and reading the wiki .
Just my 2p's worth,
Dave

@Thresher
I guess JimmyMcgee is a bit harsh (stupid newbs), but has a good point anyways. I have been a member of this since July 2005 and this place has not changed a bit. Every single value and rule is the same as when I joined. The structure that this site has, has worked for many years, making this a haven for people that either want to learn or simply need help. It is not the site's rules and regulations that have changed, but the quality of people joining the site...
Over the past year, I have seen virtually every single one of the main and most common sense rules being broken. Point and case, do you know how many threads in Chinese, German, French, Italian (I have yet to see one in Spanish but I have seen a few posts with a lot of cursing in Spanish ) and an endless number of other languages have been started over the last year?? This is an English speaking forum and if I am not mistaken, one of the rules is "please post in English so others can understand"... one would think thats common sense. Of course, you will have the good ol' fashioned person (to avoid name calling) that will rant about how they don't speak English and that it is very unfair how they cannot ask questions (or read the comments) because of that... To that I say, "Google is a wonderful thing, you know? You can do things such as writing your stuff and then using the translate function to turn your question into something that some people might actually be able to understand." Believe me, my first language is Spanish and I would like nothing more than to make less effort into writing, but hey it's not a matter of what I like and what is more convenient... it's common sense.
Now, I read your original thread in the Q&A question where you complained that you posted something in the Raphael forums and got moved somewhere else. That thread where you placed your post clearly stated that no posts/replies were supposed to be made. So, the mods decided to move it where they saw fit to belong. That is what the mods are here for, to turn this utterly, disorganized, never ending chaos that we call a forum and make it enjoyable for them as well as for other members. And they do a great job at that!
Long story short, (again quoting JimmyMcgee)
"There haven't been any Changed to the Rules. Just maybe MORE enforcement to respond to MORE infraction."
Thanks for understanding.

The longer one is on the site, the more one answers the same questions over and over the less nice you are going to be about it.
Loads and loads of people have google search XDA link in there sig, and 90% of questions have been answered at least once before, sometimes even on the same page.
People are lazy, and want it handed to them on a plate, its sad.

The world is constantly developing and changing, the internet reaches more places in the world than ever. With satallites, virtually the whole earth is covered by some sort of cell service ( well except my downstairs office where I can never get a signal ). With the advent of global email and texts, more people than ever have cell phones, and the number of PDA's grow every month.
What used to be a small forum of enthusiats trying out and sharing hacks, to try to make their phones better, has turned into one of , if not the best source of information on the net for Windows Mobile phones. I have not been to a windows mobile , HTC or carrier forum on the net that doesn't reference XDA to people with " unanswerable " questions.
With this designation of " the authority " comes the influx of human nature. "The I want it and I want it now's." The people who think that this is HTC's tech support. The people who don't really care about their phones and don't want to, but just have one question and cannot see why you cannot just anwer it and let them get on with their lives, etc...etc.... Go to any other enthusiast site and see how ignorant ( ie: unknowledgeable ) people get treated, not much differently. " I know that this is a high performance engine forum, where people trade ideas on how to increase the horse power of high performance cars, but can someone tell me where the dipstick is on my 1999 mini van ?"
Too bad there wasn't a way to route every noob or web redirect through a home page that includes the " what XDA is " and the posting rules page, before they can navigate to the site itself. Maybe for at least their first 10 posts or more. The fustrations with redundant questions, ungrateful noobs, people that think this is tech support are endemic of any forum. But I really think that ti is not a problem here, as much as I have seen on other sites. And if someone wants to remedy it, I think the remedy has to work friom the noobs up and not from the seniors down.

Google is a wonderful thing but as Google admits to: human nature, vocabulary, language and grammar make search engine results wildly different for each user. Google also has issues with short words and abbreviations which are used a lot throughout XDA.
The WIKI is great.
I guess other forums I use have a feature to show you similar questions based on the language you used before you finish your post. I wonder if this forum has that ability. I think it comes as part of the vBulletin package but it takes a toll on the server due to DB hits.

Moderation in the Dream forums...

What is going on with the moderation in the Dream forums? I have been coming here for quite a few years now, though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.
In the past on the other subforums locking a thread was fairly rare and moderation more in tune with keeping it civil than anything. Moderators kept the peace but left topics and threads to being mostly self-governing. Occasionally a thread would get moved to off topic or the rebellious user warned but nothing like this. About a dozen threads in the last week, six in the last two days alone.
It seems any thread that the moderators feel is a repeat or not needed is locked. There is no warning or explanation by the moderators, just a lock. Instead of educating the user, search first with a link to what the user should have looked for as an example, the discussion is left in limbo. This is making the forum more of a moderated police state than a area for open conversation on topics. This detracts from the ability to have open discussions and the enjoyment of trying to help others.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.

I am not active in the Dream forum, but I will add my thoughts here.
Certain sections of XDA's forums are subject to stricter moderation then others due to the sheer volume of active members in them. For example, the Raphael has seen a US release on all three nationwide carriers, whereas the prior models only saw release on one carrier. This led to more people buying the Raphael, and a large influx of members in the related forums. Due to that influx, we moderators needed to step up our monitoring of those forums in order to keeping them as clean and concise as possible.
This same example applies to the Dream due to it being the first Android phone released.
While I agree with you that a moderator should always leave a quick note as the final post in a closed thread, I also support closing down redundant threads in order to help keep all relevant information in an existing thread; not spread across 5 or 6 different ones.

So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
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NotATreoFan said:
While I agree with you that a moderator should always leave a quick note as the final post in a closed thread, I also support closing down redundant threads in order to help keep all relevant information in an existing thread; not spread across 5 or 6 different ones.
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Just thought I would add my two cents in here ( like anyone cares ) because I too have been irritated once or twice by over zealous moderation. Once by a moderator from the Dream forum who came over to the Kaiser forum to delete a whole conversation, because he " thought " we were getting too heated in our debate over M$ supposed actions . There was no flamebaiting, He just thought.
And several times by threads ( not mine ) that were closed without warning or stated reason. I know this is a huge site with a lot of heavy traffic and the Mods are " overworked and under paid " . I also realize that Mods are from around the world, and Moderation style is subject to differing personalities, social and interpersonal customs from different countries. But common courtesy is universal. While many people don't deserve it, please take the time to include a note on why, the thread requires moderation. If you don't have the time , then maybe you should pass the job on to someone who can take the time.
Also in my 1 1/2 years on this site, ( six mo lurking and 1 yr member ) I have PM'd three mods, asking them to please explain their actions in moderating a thread I was posting in, and in all three cases, received nothing, not even an acknowledgement.
This is not a criticism, just my two cents, should someone read this. I have my favorite mods, (natf is one ) Dave and Josh are excellent in the Kaiser forums, mostly because they adhere to the basic tenet, " Moderation in Moderation. "

mikechannon said:
I realise you are being modest there, and the truth is we do care what members think and voicing concern in a calm fashion is appreciated and this kind of feedback is what moderates the Moderators. This is what makes us a community and avoids an "us and them" situation developing.
I don't have anything of value to add to NotATreoFan's comments which match my own feelings on the matter and IMHO reflect the kind of balance we need between being tolerant, courteous and yet maintaining a degree of organisation.
Mike
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Thanks for taking that in the context that it was meant, I know that Admin and Mods do care what membership thinks.

denco7 said:
Thanks for taking that in the context that it was meant, I know that Admin and Mods do care what membership thinks.
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AND they are simply men and women They could make mistakes, they act differently in the same situation. Suggestions and opinions are always welcome!

i reckon there should be a new button next to the report post button that serves as an appeal button if someone thinks that a tread has been closed for no reason the the button should allow for appeal. a box is filled n explaining the thread and why there was no reason to delete it this is then pmd to the closer of the thread then negotaiations will start

Please do not take my original post too harshly. I do appreciate the mods here on XDA-developers and think that they do a great job. But at the same time when the mods get a little over zealous this seemed the best way to bring up my protest. (I could not PM the moderator in question because I do not know who was closing the threads.)
So thanks again for making this a great place to come back to over the years and keep up the good work.

JanetPanic said:
What is going on with the moderation in the Dream forums? I have been coming here for quite a few years now, though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.
In the past on the other subforums locking a thread was fairly rare and moderation more in tune with keeping it civil than anything. Moderators kept the peace but left topics and threads to being mostly self-governing. Occasionally a thread would get moved to off topic or the rebellious user warned but nothing like this. About a dozen threads in the last week, six in the last two days alone.
It seems any thread that the moderators feel is a repeat or not needed is locked. There is no warning or explanation by the moderators, just a lock. Instead of educating the user, search first with a link to what the user should have looked for as an example, the discussion is left in limbo. This is making the forum more of a moderated police state than a area for open conversation on topics. This detracts from the ability to have open discussions and the enjoyment of trying to help others.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
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If you ask me there aren't enough locked threads in the dream section. There are over 80 different threads for the new haykuro build there, 80!!! Probably more because i stopped counting at page 20. I also might add that the main haykuro thread has over 6000 posts and counting. The dream section is out of control and needs serious moderator intervention. One moderator simply cannot do all this himself. I know the dream mod, or at least the only active mod there that i can see and he is excellent at not only helping people but moderating in general. Let a thread be self governed? That's a very scary though!!! I am a moderator at another site and i can say it is not a moderators job to be a friend, be respectful or give you an explaination as to why he or she did what they did. Yes i do give an explaination and most mods on here do as well but they are here to maintain the rules of the forum and the upkeep of the forum in general. If threads were locked its more than likely because you or others got off topic, double posted or started a new thread when another about the exact same thing already existed. Case in point, there is a section for members to post questions to mods about anything already and you opened a new thread on the subject.

Ha I couldn't agree MORE with Ryanmo. There should be tighter and more rigid controls there. In fact I don't think it's (currently) possible for there to be moderation there at the moment...too many new bodies added to the fray. And we all know most of them are not reading the Sticky posted at top saying "Must read before you post". I don't have any problem with xda mods enacting 1-3 day temp bans on some of the frequent offenders.

knight4linux said:
Ha I couldn't agree MORE with Ryanmo. There should be tighter and more rigid controls there. In fact I don't think it's (currently) possible for there to be moderation there at the moment...too many new bodies added to the fray. And we all know most of them are not reading the Sticky posted at top saying "Must read before you post". I don't have any problem with xda mods enacting 1-3 day temp bans on some of the frequent offenders.
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Haha yeah the sticky at the top about the rules says a little over 23,000 views. The hacking thread has been viewed over 300,000 times, go figure. I probably report 15 posts a day to try and help but your right its outta control.

Hello Friends,
Well i have seen these site and i am quite surprise here that though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.As i am not a active member but ya i will add my though if any and will discuss So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason. Thanx

can someone please unlock this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=429808&page=22

It is not that rules and regulations are not in place in this site. They are posted all over the place. In fact, if you look at my sig, I have them there as a hyperlink (many other members do the same). Why do threads and posts get locked, moved, or otherwise deleted left and right? It is because lots of users (particularly new ones but seasoned users also) do not read these rules. They do not know that they should search before posting or opening new threads; they do not know that there are sections to ask questions that are not relevant to the section they posted at; they do not know that profanity shouldn't be used around here due to a large young crowd; they do not know that flaming (particularly for no apparent reason) is strictly prohibited....
Moderators have little time to be messing around with people who simply do not understand that there are rules that must be followed (or read for that matter). Hence, they close the threads with no previous notice and at times, leave no excuse behind. They don't do it out of the content of their hearts, and they are definitely not watching over every single thread at all times. If you see a thread being closed, it is normally due to someone complaining about it, and more often than not, mods will analyze the trend of the thread and if necessary either warn users to stop, or just flat out close it (normally they warn unless the thread itself is breaking the rules... think of posting warez for instance).
I have yet to see abuse of power by a mod in this forum. And I am pretty sure that if there happens to be a mod that does abuse his/her God-given powers.... let's just say that they will be judged by a higher power
My 2 cents!

Although some moderators try and go out of their way to leave a message as to why they lock a thread, that is not their job. Our job is to make sure people are following the rules.
Here is a little scenario, i log on at night and jump over to the D&H section.... there i find 10 new threads asking questions.
A) I can delete the threads
B) I can close the threads by simply going through and checking every thread and then closing.
C) i can individually open each thread and leave a message for each person
D) i can wait for another moderator to do it
E) move the thread for them
Well i cant delete them or people will think their thread never got posted and just post it AGAIN. If you move peoples threads for them they think they can post anywhere and it will just be moved where it needs to go. I dont have time to open every thread and leave a message for every person everytime, and if i leave it for another moderator, it might not get done.
Really i am only left with checking all of the threads and closing them. if you have a question you can READ the rules, as it is your resonsibilty as a member, and find the answer. (Or of course you can pm a mod)
You guys have to remember that there are over 1,537,526 members on this site and around 66 mods and admin. We do our best to help you guys but we dont always have the time to write a personal letter for everyone of your and put it in you lunch box.

I agree (not that it matters). Mods have absolutely NO responsibility to post why they closed a thread...Why? Because they already are posted...in the rules up top. Its you, the new users that have the resposibility. That responsibility to read the rules before you post (RTFM). It even says at the bottom (of the rules) what will happen if they are not followed.
And by allowing multiple threads of the SAME simple questions (Especially in a phones development section) this completely ruins development and progress, not to mention this is a free and public forum. That means its hosted on servers, and these duplicate threads/posts start to add up.
Trust me. Frequent the forums for more than a few months and it'll start to wear on you too, almost as much as it does to the mods.

UPDATE:
As of late, there seems to be a lot of issues with the dream section, many many topics on bricked phones, new OS releases, old releases, random topics, and other posts. The title of the forum is Dream android 'development', and its actually hard now to find 'development' scattered in many of the different types of topics in there.
SUGGESTION/RECOMMENDATION:
Make a sub-forum of the development forum (or of the whole dream forum like the current 5 main sub-forums), named something like troubleshooting, or repair, or something like that. That way, anyone with a broken phone can post in there maybe. It might be a bad suggestion simply because the 'helpers' may not check there...but I cant think of a better way to keep the 5 different topics a day saying "I have a different brick problem" organized so actual development [important] topics can stay up top, where they should be.
Anyone with a better idea, express it so something can be done, its quite a mess right now.
[Oh and maybe a description under the android dev. forum something in capital letters saying: be careful, and read everything before taking action!!!, because I think some people end up with bricks because of anticipation and possibly dont read. Just as a [duh] advisory, ya know?]
/rant
Thanks [btw not bashing the mods, its just a bit hectic it seems right now, many things going on there]

theslam08 said:
UPDATE:
As of late, there seems to be a lot of issues with the dream section, many many topics on bricked phones, new OS releases, old releases, random topics, and other posts. The title of the forum is Dream android 'development', and its actually hard now to find 'development' scattered in many of the different types of topics in there.
SUGGESTION/RECOMMENDATION:
Make a sub-forum of the development forum (or of the whole dream forum like the current 5 main sub-forums), named something like troubleshooting, or repair, or something like that. That way, anyone with a broken phone can post in there maybe. It might be a bad suggestion simply because the 'helpers' may not check there...but I cant think of a better way to keep the 5 different topics a day saying "I have a different brick problem" organized so actual development [important] topics can stay up top, where they should be.
Anyone with a better idea, express it so something can be done, its quite a mess right now.
[Oh and maybe a description under the android dev. forum something in capital letters saying: be careful, and read everything before taking action!!!, because I think some people end up with bricks because of anticipation and possibly dont read. Just as a [duh] advisory, ya know?]
/rant
Thanks [btw not bashing the mods, its just a bit hectic it seems right now, many things going on there]
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That has been added as a suggestion and I will push for it again in the mod section.
BTW I am a Dream mod and I am usually the one that closes threads or deletes them. I don't always leave a message because it is more time consuming. I can have an unclean section with everyone getting a response and therefore getting their locked post bumped. Or I can have a cleaner (it will never be clean) section with angry users who didn't search in the first place.
I chose the later by the way.

neoobs said:
That has been added as a suggestion and I will push for it again in the mod section.
BTW I am a Dream mod and I am usually the one that closes threads or deletes them. I don't always leave a message because it is more time consuming. I can have an unclean section with everyone getting a response and therefore getting their locked post bumped. Or I can have a cleaner (it will never be clean) section with angry users who didn't search in the first place.
I chose the later by the way.
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Mhm, and you do what you can, I notice somethings being done by you, which is good that something is being done. I used to mod/administrate big places so I know what its like, its a pain when people cant search, or arent sure of where to post so they post anywhere (sometimes in the effort of 'just getting an answer').
This causes the clutter, especially when there are multiple 'different but very similar' type topics being created, and its tricky to know which to close and which not to close. Thats why I think maybe a separate forum 'might' be the best solution, because as of right now, bricks are happening pretty quickly and thats not good (no one to blame, just the anticipation again).
I appreciate the backing, hope 'something' can be done, its just really crowded right now (making the 'new' browsers get lost [causing the multiple similar topic issue], and your job harder).

One problem is the sticky's need to be updated by the people who started them. Many are older and with 5 different roms available to flash now they simply don't meet the demand for all these different roms. The rom developers need to do a better job of explaining how to flash their roms. The newest one tried to get a little too cute and force a new apps2sd method on users and the result was a lot of looped (not bricked) g1's. The sub forum could consist of how to's and guide's. I'm not sure a sub forum is the best way to go though, There are already 5 and most phones on here don't even have 4. Xda simply need more help with this section, neoobs has been cleaning house and i thank you but you can't do it all lol. I am a moderator on another site, not here but will do what i can to report posts as much as possible to help the mods.

Ryanmo5 said:
One problem is the sticky's need to be updated by the people who started them. Many are older and with 5 different roms available to flash now they simply don't meet the demand for all these different roms. The rom developers need to do a better job of explaining how to flash their roms. The newest one tried to get a little too cute and force a new apps2sd method on users and the result was a lot of looped (not bricked) g1's. The sub forum could consist of how to's and guide's. I'm not sure a sub forum is the best way to go though, There are already 5 and most phones on here don't even have 4. Xda simply need more help with this section, neoobs has been cleaning house and i thank you but you can't do it all lol. I am a moderator on another site, not here but will do what i can to report posts as much as possible to help the mods.
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Agreed 100%, it seems there are alot of stickies there, maybe redundant on some, but are necessary on others. There should be a way to make it distinguishable between information/guides, developments, and problems. They do need to be updated as well.
I agree, a forum might not be the best way because there might be 'lost' posts which would not work either (like the new magic thread that showed up, though I dont dissagree with that simply because the OP is correct, android is android, and the magic needs some help, maybe because we stole quite a bit from it too? lol. but still posting to 'get help' anywhere).
Is there a modification for vb that makes stickies different color than the regular topics? I never administrated vb only ipb and smf so I dont know. But that would be a big help there, then the new comers can instantly see which are informal.
Im trying to report, to help you so you dont need to spend as much time 'looking' as doing the task. Its not 'too' bad right now, when I first posted though omg it was disaster. Once the new rom comes out though....thennn its gonna be biig trouble again.
Update: I was looking at something...the first forum, named Dream. That I was actually looking at for the first time, it seems pretty useless really. A lot of the topics in there could definitely go into the development thread...OR that forum could get changed to something else and cleaned up. There arent many 'general' topics for the phone I dont think, whats general for the phone? What is the g1? Maybe but useless indeed. So maybe instead of MAKING a new forum, just change that one and clean it up. Make it a troubleshooting forum, or a tutorial section, or just updates, or something I dont know. But maybe just better use of it I think.

Similar to "Thanks" button, please add "Unhelpful" or "Dislike" button

Similar to "Thanks" button, please add "Unhelpful" or "Dislike" button
Some forums on here have grown out of control with nonsense and useless posts and it is too much and even unnecessary work sometimes, for mods to have to deal with. The thousands of users that read these posts daily are perfectly capable of judging these posts and should be able to + or - a post based on its usefulness. This +/- button could be attached to every post similar to the way the "Thanks" button is. It wouldn't require every post to be +'ed or -'ed, but usually the REALLY HELPFUL posts would be +'ed (similar to being thanked) and the real BS posts would be ranked down. Simple.
People who don't bother to read or search first before posting something are an annoyance for many in this community.. and posting stickies at the top of every page titled "PLEASE READ FIRST" or anything similar just doesn't work. Users then "flame" one another, and that doesn't help in correcting the problem either. Additionally, the mods shouldn't have to be monitoring posts like they would a kindergarten class.
Allowing users to simply rate posts with a +/- like on many other sites, would improve the visibility of helpful posts on this forum greatly, while allowing nonsense posts to be hidden. When a posts receives an overwhelming number of -'s as opposed to +'s, that post will be automatically hidden so that other users may ignore it. There is already a "Thanks" button to thank users for being helpful; I think it's unrealistic to not include a way to flag unhelpful posts as well since there are just as many of those. (These aren't always derogatory or negative posts that SHOULD be reported to mods, but instead just wasteful and nonsense posts that add nothing informative to a thread).
Yes, this is a community where we are all here to help each other. In reality though, some users just don't care about anything except what they're here for and end up cluttering the forums with questions that have been answered several times before, or posting in wrong sections, etc . Those posts should be able to be flagged or ranked down by us users (this can be limited to even junior/ senior members for those worried of abuse in such a system, which is really not a threat at all [I explain in a post further down]). Please consider this improvement.
Thoughts?

Love it.
TechReport.com does a similar thing, and if you get five downvotes the post isn't automatically displayed.
Would streamline the site immensely, although I have a sneaky feeling something along these lines may well be implemented in the future.

This would cause so many problems too... All it would take is a few pissed off kids to downrank a helpful/brutally honest/ROM post into oblivion.
I think the way it is is fine, Although I wish they had a "Report as Trolling" button so we could send those ****ers into space somewhere...

posts like this

Not at all. If other users see a post getting downranked and they think it shouldn't be, they can just + it and if the overall community thinks the post shouldn't be downranked, enough people will + it to unhide the post. You sound like you have no faith in the community to do something right. It is such a large community that it will take a large number of posters to downrank something. And the general consensus about the post will eventually trump inappropriate downranks. It's so simple but difficult to explain. Also, this wouldn't require every post to be ranked. It's just there as an option.
Check out some androidandme posts for example. It works wonderfully on there.

IISiDeK1CKII said:
This would cause so many problems too... All it would take is a few pissed off kids to downrank a helpful/brutally honest/ROM post into oblivion.
I think the way it is is fine, Although I wish they had a "Report as Trolling" button so we could send those ****ers into space somewhere...
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Click to collapse
Good point Sidekick (Hi btw ) but I do think this would occur much less frequently than the opposite (ranking down trollers and threadcrappers, myself included )
Also, 'sensible users' could easily just rank it back up.

^^ Exactly. It's already a system in place on many sites, and it's obviously used because it works.

I'm in for this. We all know XDA has grown too fast for moderation to keep up. Let the users help out.

This is definitely a really good idea, it would bring up the quality of posts especially on the development related threads. +1 from me

Aspeds2989 said:
Some forums on here have grown out of control with nonsense and useless posts.
The issue of lazy people who don't bother to read or search before posting something annoys a lot of people in this community.. and posting stickies at the top of every page titled "PLEASE READ FIRST" or anything similar just doesn't work. Users flaming one another doesn't help in correcting the problem either. The mods also have enough on their hands to have to worry about monitoring and deleting and moving wrongfully placed posts.
So, in an effort to better the experience for everyone, why not allow users to simply rate posts with a +/- like on many other sites. When a posts receives an overwhelming number of negatives, that post will be automatically hidden (check androidandme.com for example).
I think this will be a more effective and simple way for the community to keep tabs on itself. There is already a "Thanks" button to thank users for helping one another. I think it's unrealistic to not include a way for users to rank down unhelpful posts as well. The report button just unnecessarily pushes more work onto the mods.
Yes, this is a community where we are all here to help each other. In reality though, some users just don't care about anything except what they're here for and add nothing positive to the community. Those posts should be able to be ranked down by us users.
Thoughts?
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How about a [Solved Button]? For those Damn threads you read about a Million Replies to just to find out Help is No Longer Needed!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1178716

PMGRANDS said:
How about a [Solved Button]? For those Damn threads you read about a Million Replies to just to find out Help is No Longer Needed!
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There is actually another thread about this in here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1178716

Unksi said:
There is actually another thread about this in here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1178716
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I know... Sorry!
I actually Started the other thread!
Lol, just trying to Promote the Idea!

Yea.. I didn't think anyone would listen either :-! Oh, well. I tried.

Preach it! This system would be extremely helpful for everyone, especially since there is alot of cluttering going on.

Ehh.. I think writing an essay was enough for me. If people like this maybe they can just keep bumping it until it catches attention.

Aspeds2989 said:
Ehh.. I think writing an essay was enough for me. If people like this maybe they can just keep bumping it until it catches attention.
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I Hear that... I Feel the Same way as you do with my Idea! I actually thought I'd have a lot More comments than I have in my thread. But oh well... Lol!

meeeowww..

Potential for abuse = Huuuge...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face......

Realistic threat of abuse = Non-existent
Again, I refer to a site like Yahoo that uses this in their comments section that sees multiple times the amount of traffic than does this site and.. EDIT - nevermind

Aspeds2989 said:
Realistic threat of abuse = Non-existent
Again, I refer to a site like Yahoo that uses this in their comments section that sees multiple times the amount of traffic than does this site and.. EDIT - nevermind
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First off, I apologise, I did not pay attention and therefore my last post was irrelevant, allow me to respond properly....
Also, I hope that you didnt decide to edit your post because you noticed I was a mod, contrary to popular belief, users DO NOT receive bans/infractions for speaking their minds
Aspeds2989 said:
People who don't bother to read or search first before posting something are an annoyance for many in this community.. and posting stickies at the top of every page titled "PLEASE READ FIRST" or anything similar just doesn't work. Users then "flame" one another, and that doesn't help in correcting the problem either. Additionally, the mods shouldn't have to be monitoring posts like they would a kindergarten class.
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Click to collapse
Couldnt agree more....
Aspeds2989 said:
That is why allowing users to simply rate posts with a +/- like on many other sites, would improve the quality of posts on this forum greatly. When a posts receives an overwhelming number of negatives, that post will be automatically hidden so that other users are aware and may ignore it (check androidandme.com or any Yahoo news articles for examples). I think this will be a more effective and simple way for the community to keep tabs on itself. There is already a "Thanks" button to thank users for helping one another. I think it's unrealistic to not include a way for users to rank down unhelpful or even negative posts as well. It's like not wanting to acknowledge the fact that there are a lot of nonsense posts throughout the forums. And the report button just unnecessarily pushes more work onto the mods and the majority ignores it, so it's not effective.
Yes, this is a community where we are all here to help each other. In reality though, some users just don't care about anything except what they're here for and add nothing positive to the community, and end up cluttering the forums with questions that have been answered several times before, or posting in wrong sections, etc . Those posts should be able to be flagged or ranked down by the community. Please consider this improvement.
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Click to collapse
Im not sure if this is possible with the version of VB that XDA uses. It probably is but then there is always the possibility that it may not work smoothly due to the existing amount of tweaks to the system that are already in place.
The problem you describe is due to the "gimme gimme gimme" mentality of the current userbase and we are currently taking steps to address this.
In the meantime please alert us to any such posts and we can remove duplicates and tag items as [SOLVED]. We dont mind doing it if people are willing to let us know that it needs to be done.
IISiDeK1CKII said:
This would cause so many problems too... All it would take is a few pissed off kids to downrank a helpful/brutally honest/ROM post into oblivion.
I think the way it is is fine, Although I wish they had a "Report as Trolling" button so we could send those ****ers into space somewhere...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It could be an issue, there will always be a certain "fanboi" mentality that would be inclined to abuse such a system. Some of the developers can be quite blunt (and rightly so) when it comes to people asking dumbass questions in a thread, I would hate to see for threads to be tarnished with downvotes (even if it is just one) all because some asshat wasnt happy about receiving a public dressing down.
There is already a Report button... Use it, we dont like trolls, they will be promptly escorted off the premises.
Aspeds2989 said:
Not at all. If other users see a post getting downranked and they think it shouldn't be, they can just + it and if the overall community thinks the post shouldn't be downranked, enough people will + it to unhide the post. You sound like you have no faith in the community to do something right. It is such a large community that it will take a large number of posters to downrank something. And the general consensus about the post will eventually trump inappropriate downranks. It's so simple but difficult to explain. Also, this wouldn't require every post to be ranked. It's just there as an option.
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As much as I hate to say it, I have to agree with the bold part at the moment.
I think that too much of the current userbase just want the easy option and want it now.
I think that we would need to adress the issue of discipline and improving the content of posts before we could implement a system like this, we are currently doing this but it will take time.
karnovaran said:
I'm in for this. We all know XDA has grown too fast for moderation to keep up. Let the users help out.
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If you want to help, drop us a PM when you see something that needs attention or use the report button.
I think its unfair to say that XDA has grown too fast for the mods to keep up, we have a highly dedicated and hard working team of many moderators who give up their free time to keep this place running. New moderator applications are being processed at the moment as well, so expect to see a few more jackbooted, goosestepping, uptight internet rent-a-cops strutting around sometime soon.
The problem lies not with the amount of users we have to deal with, it is the amount of stupidity and ignorance displayed by some (too many) of them.
I guess that is going to come off as a pretty negative post but I am not against such an idea, I just think there are more pressing matters to attend to first.
If you havent already done so I suggest you read the forum announcement by Svetius outlining the roadmap for the site.
/rant

Better alternative to postcount limit in development forums

Why are you judging members by their post count?
For lack of a better alternative. I challenge anyone to come up with a better alternative.
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OK. You need a 'user points' system. I'm more familiar with Drupal than vb (you should probably upgrade sometime), so I'm not sure what's available for vb, if anything. You want something similar to this: http://drupal.org/project/userpoints
Users then earn points for performing certain actions on your site (not just posting), you can assign different amounts of points for different actions. Points can be removed too.
Then have a minimum userpoint limit for posting in certain forums.
Then you'd have better control over what activities you were encouraging users to do, rather than just encouraging short spam posts.

Chalenge accepted.
wbaw said:
12aon said:
]Why are you judging members by their post count?
For lack of a better alternative. I challenge anyone to come up with a better alternative, and share it with us.
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OK. You need a 'user points' system.
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First of all I'd like to say "challenge accepted"
@wbaw: I like your Idea of a 'user points' system. To make sure that there are only posts that are above a certain level of standard, you need to create some kind of 'filter'. But I think that, such a system as you have suggested could be exploited as well. As long as there are technical rules to be fulfilled one can just do so and get his status right.
@12aon: In my opinion we need a rating system for the quality of posts and based on this a hiding mechanism for posts.
Let me explain why I came up and what I mean by this.
I have to confess that I'm a heavy user of youtube. And here you have a good example what I mean. You do not only have the ability to press a "like", "+1" or "thump up" -button but also the possibility to press "thumps down". What I figured out is, that the rating of the videos are surprisingly close to my own opinion. That implies that everyone is sensitive to the quality of a video (or post?!?) and furthermore that the average opinion about the quality is in average the opinion of the single reader itself (myself).
In the XDA-Forum you have the "Thanks" button. What I suggest is a ... hmmm ... "ingratitude" button (or just do "thumps up and down", "plus and minus", "happy and sad" or whatever you like). Each user has a single voice for each post.
With this mechanism in place, a post that is below a certain threshold could be automatically minimized. I don't mean that they should be deleted, because there might be answers that refer to this particular post. But by minimizing it, bad quality posts get out of the focus of the reader. If wanted, one can still expand and read it (by pressing some kind of an "open button").
That is the first step. In the second step there is a user rating that is based on the post rating of all his posts. So if one does not mind his behavior or is asking stupid questions over and over again. His Account is restricted to post only in the non developer parts of the forum.
The first advantage by applying this functionality is, that silly posts get quite fast out of the focus of the reader.
The second advantage is that silly poster (no offense here ^^) are removed from development forums in the long run.
The third advantage is, that one have to take care of all his posts even in the long run (writing 10 posts does not necessarily means that one have learned its lesson). So the over all quality of the forum itself is increasing.
In my opinion this functionality is a little bit better than restricting everyone (even the high quality poster) to non development forums just because they are not active enough to reach 10 posts.
The problem is, to define the threshold. I've some ideas in my mind, but that would leave the scope of this post which is to invite a new (I know its old, but new to this forum) idea.
Cheers
Ponsel
p.S. Sorry 4 my bad English. Its not my native language.

wbaw said:
OK. You need a 'user points' system. I'm more familiar with Drupal than vb (you should probably upgrade sometime), so I'm not sure what's available for vb, if anything. You want something similar to this: http://drupal.org/project/userpoints
Users then earn points for performing certain actions on your site (not just posting), you can assign different amounts of points for different actions. Points can be removed too.
Then have a minimum userpoint limit for posting in certain forums.
Then you'd have better control over what activities you were encouraging users to do, rather than just encouraging short spam posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate your ideas on this topic, although I have to admit I am really mystified by this: "....rather than just encouraging short spam posts".
Why do you believe that encouraging users to post in the proper sections with helpful answers to other users is "encouraging short spam posts"? I seriously don't get this idea. It is not really any more difficult to try a little to post even marginally helpful answers to other people in the General and Q&A forums as opposed to "short spam posts".
It is not like getting 10 not-spam posts is that difficult. Probably hundreds do it any given week here. Is it too much to ask that people read a little first, gain some knowledge, try to be a little helpful to others in the General, Q&A, Themes and Apps, and Accessories device forums, or in the general discussion forums, in order to be able to post into any dev thread on this site?
I am not sure if there is a way to add this type of functionality to VBulletin, but I think it just becomes a meaningless stat over time just like the thanks counter, and users will figure out a way to scam it as well.
Ponsel said:
First of all I'd like to say "challenge accepted"
@12aon: In my opinion we need a rating system for the quality of posts and based on this a hiding mechanism for posts.
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This is already in the works from what I hear, there will be rating buttons on each post, enough positive votes raises it up, enough negative votes hides it (not delete).

mf2112 said:
Ponsel said:
First of all I'd like to say "challenge accepted"
@12aon: In my opinion we need a rating system for the quality of posts and based on this a hiding mechanism for posts.
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Click to collapse
This is already in the works from what I hear, there will be rating buttons on each post, enough positive votes raises it up, enough negative votes hides it (not delete).
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That sounds great. I'd love to increase the visibility of my favorite ROM and further more rate away bad posts.
Cheers
Ponsel
p.S. Just writing to increase my "noob counter" ;-D

Ponsel said:
That sounds great. I'd love to increase the visibility of my favorite ROM and further more rate away bad posts.
Cheers
Ponsel
p.S. Just writing to increase my "noob counter" ;-D
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I would advise not writing posts to simply increase your post count. That can get the wrong kind of attention. Instead, simply try to write good posts that help people less experienced than you in your devices General or Q&A forum and it won't ever be a problem to worry about.

@wbaw - While the user points system would be a massive change to how things are run at the moment, I can't help feeling that mf2112 is completely right when he says that it'll become just like the thanks button.
In an ideal world, it would be a great idea and would work perfectly well. But in amongst the realms of the internet, a lot of people will simply do all they can just so they can post something wherever they'd like to.
@Ponsel - Even though this rating system can be a great idea and will probably be put into action at some point, I can't help feeling that this system will be exploited aswell.
I say this because quite a few times, in my short time here, I've seen moments when there's been a casual discussion going on with 6/7 people and everything's going great. Then all of a sudden, one states their opinion and none of the others agree with it or like it, so they all gang up on the individual.
In this instance, the 'gang' could quite easily vote all the individuals comments down, thus resulting in him/her being penalized.
Obviously the situation would be able to be rectified in the end, but until a mod has been able to view the whole situation, the individual would still have to be without certain posting rights, which wouldn't be fair.
The third advantage is, that one have to take care of all his posts even in the long run (writing 10 posts does not necessarily means that one have learned its lesson). So the over all quality of the forum itself is increasing.
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^^^I really love this bit because as you mention, people will have to take care of what they post, even if they have thousands of posts. Also, I really do think it would improve the forum quality aswell. Only time will tell as to whether it with get implemented or not and whether it would even be effective, but I do like the idea so far.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

mf2112 said:
Ponsel said:
p.S. Just writing to increase my "noob counter" ;-D
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would advise not writing posts to simply increase your post count.
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I just could not resist to show how easy it is to exploit the "noob counter" system. You just need to start a discussion and keep trolling.
But here's the non trolling reply:
KidCarter93 said:
@Ponsel - Even though this rating system can be a great idea and will probably be put into action at some point, I can't help feeling that this system will be exploited aswell.
I say this because quite a few times, in my short time here, I've seen moments when there's been a casual discussion going on with 6/7 people and everything's going great. Then all of a sudden, one states their opinion and none of the others agree with it or like it, so they all gang up on the individual.
In this instance, the 'gang' could quite easily vote all the individuals comments down, thus resulting in him/her being penalized.
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I know, that my idea is not without any fault. But I think that this problem can be solved by a good threshold. I think its to early to go into details, but to support my idea and to encourage everyone to participate in this discussion (I can't fight the feeling that I'm just trolling again ^^) I'll now suggest one possible solution how to solve this problem.
I think the threshold should work in two steps:
Step 1. As long as there are no more than 5 ratings the post is visible.
Step 2. As long as there are 10% or more positive votes the post should still be visible.
These numbers have materialized out of thin air in front of my inner eye and I'd be glad if some "number cruncher" could calculate better ones. But first let me explain why I've chosen this particular ones.
First of all I'd like to state that I'd rather let a bad post stay visible then losing a good idea. So I would be very careful when filtering them out. By the method that I've suggested, a post would be as visible as long as not at least 6 persons have rated against it. And even then a single positive vote can keep the post above the threshold until there are 10 negative votes against it.
Normal posts will get voted very seldom (just because they don't polarize as much).
Posts that polarize will get some positive and some negative votes and stay above the threshold.
I figure that bad posts are so obvious bad that barely anyone will ever vote them positive (well ... the poster should not be allowed to rate his own post ^^).
The rating system for the account itself must work somehow different. I've no Idea how it should work, but I think that the lowest 5-15% of the "most unpopular" accounts should be restricted on non development forums (these numbers are out of thin air as well ^^).
KidCarter93 said:
Ponsel said:
The third advantage is, that one have to take care of all his posts even in the long run (writing 10 posts does not necessarily means that one have learned its lesson). So the over all quality of the forum itself is increasing.
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^^^I really love this bit because as you mention, people will have to take care of what they post, even if they have thousands of posts. Also, I really do think it would improve the forum quality aswell. Only time will tell as to whether it with get implemented or not and whether it would even be effective, but I do like the idea so far.
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Well in this point I'm not sooo optimistic because normal posts rarely get a rating at all. Giving those assumption someone with a lot of posts might stay above the threshold. It might be advisable to take only the posts with a rating into account, but I'm not sure.
I hope my remarks support my Idea of a rating system for posts ^^
Cheers
Ponsel

only issue i have is i am very experience in flashing roms just new to this site and i have a couple very specific questions about ombg nand and i could not ask. which is my main reason for signing up. there is a ton of great info here but i was having a specific issue with the rom on my rhod400 and i hope to get a answer in general since i couldnt ask directly in that thread.

orangezx10r said:
only issue i have is i am very experience in flashing roms just new to this site and i have a couple very specific questions about ombg nand and i could not ask. which is my main reason for signing up. there is a ton of great info here but i was having a specific issue with the rom on my rhod400 and i hope to get a answer in general since i couldnt ask directly in that thread.
Click to expand...
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As others have stated, you should make some helpful posts around the forums. If you say you're sharp at flashing, I'm sure there's a ton of questions you can answer around the forums.
The TP2 is a strange device, in that it runs both Android and WinMo. We really need an "Android General" section for the TP2, which I have tried many times to get...
So unfortunately there's not a whole lot you can do. Just don't go spamming forums with worthless drivel... that will certainly get you unwanted attention.

This is the kind of thing we think about a lot. We actually do have a "points" system in beta on some forums but there are a lot of issues that come into play when you start showing/hiding threads based on points. What if a group gets together and starts voting competing projects down in collective voting blocks?
Right now we simply ask that in order to post in certain sections, that you help others out first. It may not be the ideal solution but it is working for the community at the moment.
Anyway, rest assured we continually evaluate the best way to balance user interaction vs limiting the cruft.

bitpushr said:
This is the kind of thing we think about a lot. We actually do have a "points" system in beta on some forums but there are a lot of issues that come into play when you start showing/hiding threads based on points. What if a group gets together and starts voting competing projects down in collective voting blocks?
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I'm not quite sure how to answer this. I'll try it anyway
My suggestion is for single posts, not for threads. Probably its a good idea to disable the the voting for the initial post of a thread.
It's all about visibility. I don't want to delete the post, just minimize it within the thread.
I'd like to mention the REALLY low threshold. 10% means that every 10 negative votes can be countered by one single positive vote.
If there is a project that figures that there is a competitor the competitor itself must have accumulated enough interest to be recognized as such one. That means that there is a fan base to keep it above the threshold mentioned in point 3.
Last but not least. It might sound harsh, but if a Project can not build up as many fans as needed to defend itself, then probably this project might be not worth working on it (just a thought).
Cheers
Ponsel

We can mention who all have voted up/down on every post (through some expandable option, ofcourse)..
This way, group behaviour can be identified, and accordingly dealt with, by the mods...

Ponsel said:
[*]Last but not least. It might sound harsh, but if a Project can not build up as many fans as needed to defend itself, then probably this project might be not worth working on it (just a thought).
Cheers
Ponsel
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Sorry but an app that is genuinely useful but may only have a handful of responses is just as, if not more valuable to a site like this than some annoying fart/wallpaper application which may have hundreds.
Quantity of responses/thanks clicks is no gauge for quality.
This is a difficult issue to approach and I don't really have an answer for you but my personal feeling has always been that the post count limit should be raised.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

conantroutman said:
Sorry but an app that is genuinely useful but may only have a handful of responses is just as, if not more valuable to a site like this than some annoying fart/wallpaper application which may have hundreds.
Quantity of responses/thanks clicks is no gauge for quality.
This is a difficult issue to approach and I don't really have an answer for you but my personal feeling has always been that the post count limit should be raised.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
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You,sir,are amazing... LOL... Anyway,i also agree that the post count limit should be increased rather than decreased..

conantroutman said:
Sorry but an app that is genuinely useful but may only have a handful of responses is just as, if not more valuable to a site like this than some annoying fart/wallpaper application which may have hundreds.
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See point 4 on my list. A project as small as you seems to have in mind, would never collect enough attention to be recognized as a competitor. it's just to small.
conantroutman said:
Quantity of responses/thanks clicks is no gauge for quality.
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Neither is a "noob counter".
conantroutman said:
This is a difficult issue to approach and I don't really have an answer for you but my personal feeling has always been that the post count limit should be raised.
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Following your argumentation that even small projects might contribute to the developer community, I'd like to express the thought, that even the first post of a completely new account could include the spark of genius that is needed to solve a problem for which even recognized developers could provide a solution since years. One should not use different standards to similar problems. :angel::laugh:
conantroutman said:
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
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Quality of a post is not only based on its contents, but on the manners of the poster as well. The phrase quoted would have made me hesitating to give a positive vote (neither would I rate it down, because your arguments help to figure out the pro and cons of my suggestion and we urgently need to discuss the boundaries of a new idea before doing a field test).
Cheers
Ponsel

Ponsel said:
See point 4 on my list. A project as small as you seems to have in mind, would never collect enough attention to be recognized as a competitor. it's just to small.
The examples given aren't really important, its the principle, just because something is popular does not make it any more relevant or valid. I'm also unsure where the idea of competition comes from. XDA is about collaboration not competition.
Neither is a "noob counter".
It's not a counter, it's a period of introduction to the forums and a chance to contribute to the community befor gaining access to the development forums. It's unfortunate that such measures are necessary but due to the majority of new member simply wishing to ask inane questions or make demands of the developers, they are necessary.
Following your argumentation that even small projects might contribute to the developer community, I'd like to express the thought, that even the first post of a completely new account could include the spark of genius that is needed to solve a problem for which even recognized developers could provide a solution since years. One should not use different standards to similar problems. :angel::laugh:
Very true and one of the major drawbacks to this rule. However, anyone with such knowledge will no doubt either make ten useful posts or alert the relevant party via PM. Anyone who has the attitude of "I know the answer but I'm not sharing it because of the ten post rule" is probably not suited to XDA.
Quality of a post is not only based on its contents, but on the manners of the poster as well. The phrase quoted would have made me hesitating to give a positive vote (neither would I rate it down, because your arguments help to figure out the pro and cons of my suggestion and we urgently need to discuss the boundaries of a new idea before doing a field test).
lol, the phrase you quoted here is my mobile signature and not directed at you or your post here
Cheers
Ponsel
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Responded to your points in red.

Here is my take on the 10-post "issue". I signed up for the forum a few days ago to hopefully get an answer regarding the win mobile phones and Ive searched for an answer and could not find one. I'm not a windows phone user so I dont have a lot of knowledge about the devices so Im not the best person to help (hence lowering my post count). So I have to reply with posts like this to be able to post a real question in the category I really want to post it in. I've asked the question in the Q&A section but because its flooded with everyone's questions I dont think people actually go there to help assist anyone (my short observation).

vitaliyt said:
Here is my take on the 10-post "issue". I signed up for the forum a few days ago to hopefully get an answer regarding the win mobile phones and Ive searched for an answer and could not find one. I'm not a windows phone user so I dont have a lot of knowledge about the devices so Im not the best person to help (hence lowering my post count). So I have to reply with posts like this to be able to post a real question in the category I really want to post it in. I've asked the question in the Q&A section but because its flooded with everyone's questions I dont think people actually go there to help assist anyone (my short observation).
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The development section is not the place for questions. I can assure that posting a question there will get you a response, however it won't be the one you want.

So here is my partial proposed solution to the issue. Upon signup, perhaps the users need to go through a rotating question system (10 questions?) and another captcha? This may take the user longer to sign up and be able to post but maybe there wont be so many abandoned user accounts, not sure if you have current viability on this or not.

Abandoned accounts is not the problem...
The problem is that people think that the dev area is for newb questions...it isn't...
Hence, the initial limitation posed to all, so that they atleast try and understand what this site is about...
"By the power vested in me, I now pronounce you, Man and Knife"