Related
So I have been a member on here for a while and have observed the changing trends in devices and users. But something has gotten much worse in last year and I think we need to address it in proper XDA fashion. I am not the type to complain without trying develop a solution and I am looking for some feedback from mods and users of all types, shapes and sizes here.
This forum has a real problem with people making useless posts in the wrong sections, about the wrong topics and while I think the mods do a great job they clearly can't keep up. I am no saint and will admit my own guilt on one or two occasions but some users just post meaningless post after meaningless post and really great threads are being destroyed as a result. This problem has clearly gotten out of hand and it isn't limited to just the devices I follow. A review of the forum shows this behavior in just about every device category. Just my observation...
My proposed solution to this problem I perceive is a "No thanks" button that will function in exactly the opposite way the "Thank you" button works with a few caveats I see as a huge value add.
1. If a certain post is given X amount of no thanks clicks it is automatically sent to a mod for review or perhaps even automatically deleted.
2. 1 Thanks click cancels out X no thanks clicks. This would keep trolls from using it in destructive ways if you are just someone that has a few enemies. Hopefully...
3. One thanks click cancels out X no thanks clicks.
4. After a user receives X amount of no thanks clicks they are redirected to the forums rules page for a period of 24 hours. No matter what link they click or how they access the site they will just be redirected to a page with the forum rules so they can study them.
I could go on listing things but I want to see what you guys think about something like this. It would allow all of us to some degree the ability to moderate our favorite threads and keep the BS posts to a minimum. User that continue to post things off topic or in the wrong threads will find themselves spending a lot of time studying the forum rules. Even if we don't add the enhanced features the no thanks button is long overdue. These people can wear their lack of respect for forum rules like a badge of shame the same way devs wear the thanks button like a badge of honor. It will give them more incentive to think about the things they post and will help ensure that good threads are not destroyed by the same question asked 100 times.
Moved to About xda-developers.com section
i agree it would bring alot of excitement to the forum , and the automatic mod contact would be a great idea for members who are a constant problem , also total negative points could show up in the profile and maybe have a forum top list for easy overview of troublemakers
also it has to be understood that it would bring a massive amount of work as ive never seen 2 types of thanks (or positive-negative)buttons in a vBulletin system
jnutz said:
This forum has a real problem with people making useless posts in the wrong sections
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Moved to About xda-developers.com section
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Sorry, that just made me chuckle..
This has two ways it could go.
one way:
A bury down system, if there is a post that is irrelevant or off topic and not needed in that thread users could bury it (IE: Hide for themselves) and enough votes hides it for all members of that thread.
other way:
Exactly like thanks button but instead has no thanks. Thing is this serves really no purpose as if Post A was useful and then Post B wasn't very helpful and one got "thanked", the other "no thanked" then it would balance out to zero. In the end this means nothing as XDA is about sharing, not who has the best thanks ratio.
I dont think this is the best route for XDA as we move on and mature as there are much more important issues to focus on at the moment
Bury down system seems like a good idea, since inevitably people may reply to the poster before he recives enough -1 to bury the post and if that post is then deleted it will just make the forum read flow badly
Let me suggest that not everyone should be entitled to the -1 button to bury a post, only lets say 60-70% of the members either deicded apon by join date/thanks recived andor post count.
Another problem I've seen in regards to the new 10 post rule is that people are just trolling on other forums typing random useless things in just to increase their post count to 10.
Persistant offenders that have had their posts buried should get some sort of mail to warn them if things dont improve their account will be looked at by a moderator.
arielc said:
Bury down system seems like a good idea, since inevitably people may reply to the poster before he recives enough -1 to bury the post and if that post is then deleted it will just make the forum read flow badly
Let me suggest that not everyone should be entitled to the -1 button to bury a post, only lets say 60-70% of the members either deicded apon by join date/thanks recived andor post count.
Another problem I've seen in regards to the new 10 post rule is that people are just trolling on other forums typing random useless things in just to increase their post count to 10.
Persistant offenders that have had their posts buried should get some sort of mail to warn them if things dont improve their account will be looked at by a moderator.
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Report the posts of anyone who is spamming other areas, as I'll simply ban them for spamming the board. The limit is there for good reason, and people trying to get round it will be dealt with severely.
Cheers
P
jnutz said:
So I have been a member on here for a while and have observed the changing trends in devices and users. But something has gotten much worse in last year and I think we need to address it in proper XDA fashion. I am not the type to complain without trying develop a solution and I am looking for some feedback from mods and users of all types, shapes and sizes here.
This forum has a real problem with people making useless posts in the wrong sections, about the wrong topics and while I think the mods do a great job they clearly can't keep up. I am no saint and will admit my own guilt on one or two occasions but some users just post meaningless post after meaningless post and really great threads are being destroyed as a result. This problem has clearly gotten out of hand and it isn't limited to just the devices I follow. A review of the forum shows this behavior in just about every device category. Just my observation...
My proposed solution to this problem I perceive is a "No thanks" button that will function in exactly the opposite way the "Thank you" button works with a few caveats I see as a huge value add.
1. If a certain post is given X amount of no thanks clicks it is automatically sent to a mod for review or perhaps even automatically deleted.
2. 1 Thanks click cancels out X no thanks clicks. This would keep trolls from using it in destructive ways if you are just someone that has a few enemies. Hopefully...
3. One thanks click cancels out X no thanks clicks.
4. After a user receives X amount of no thanks clicks they are redirected to the forums rules page for a period of 24 hours. No matter what link they click or how they access the site they will just be redirected to a page with the forum rules so they can study them.
I could go on listing things but I want to see what you guys think about something like this. It would allow all of us to some degree the ability to moderate our favorite threads and keep the BS posts to a minimum. User that continue to post things off topic or in the wrong threads will find themselves spending a lot of time studying the forum rules. Even if we don't add the enhanced features the no thanks button is long overdue. These people can wear their lack of respect for forum rules like a badge of shame the same way devs wear the thanks button like a badge of honor. It will give them more incentive to think about the things they post and will help ensure that good threads are not destroyed by the same question asked 100 times.
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Click to collapse
I love this idea. I came in to this section, getting ready to request a 'No Thanks' button myself, when I found your post. Some of the completely frustrating examples are:
1) Posting the message 'Thanks' instead of just clicking the thanks button
2) Asking what the battery life on a new ROM is, 2 minutes after the ROM has been posted
3) Asking questions that have been asked 20 times in the current thread
This problem gets exacerbated by other members posting to tell them that they're post is not useful, in the wrong place, or redundant.
If we had a way to flag these posts, maybe by adding more options to the 'report' functionality, without further polluting the thread, it would go a long way towards keeping threads clean.
Thx,
Jason
djgromit said:
I love this idea. I came in to this section, getting ready to request a 'No Thanks' button myself, when I found your post. Some of the completely frustrating examples are:
1) Posting the message 'Thanks' instead of just clicking the thanks button
2) Asking what the battery life on a new ROM is, 2 minutes after the ROM has been posted
3) Asking questions that have been asked 20 times in the current thread
This problem gets exacerbated by other members posting to tell them that they're post is not useful, in the wrong place, or redundant.
If we had a way to flag these posts, maybe by adding more options to the 'report' functionality, without further polluting the thread, it would go a long way towards keeping threads clean.
Thx,
Jason
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I understand, seeing battery related and other FAQ can be frustrating, but they are not exactly spam, and XDA is growing and new users are discovering the world of custom ROMs and flashing because of which certain excitement and stupidity at the same time.
It's in the right spirit to welcome and be good to new members, but indeed if you notice a particular member getting out of hand or a little to n00bish please do report and we the MODs will do the needful.
We all need to strive for a balance between the developers and old school XDA members part and the new members, it can be tough; but i'm sure it can be done
JM2C's.
Hola, I would have liked to quote all of you, since you all have pro´s but there are also plenty of con´s and so I´ll only quote this last ones as reference...
djgromit said:
I love this idea. I came in to this section, getting ready to request a 'No Thanks' button myself, when I found your post. Some of the completely frustrating examples are:
1) Posting the message 'Thanks' instead of just clicking the thanks button
2) Asking what the battery life on a new ROM is, 2 minutes after the ROM has been posted
3) Asking questions that have been asked 20 times in the current thread
This problem gets exacerbated by other members posting to tell them that they're post is not useful, in the wrong place, or redundant.
If we had a way to flag these posts, maybe by adding more options to the 'report' functionality, without further polluting the thread, it would go a long way towards keeping threads clean.
Thx,
Jason
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Click to collapse
I think and welcome the idea of "flagging" certain posts after it is totally clear (I know, sometimes it seems obvious) that the post is "trash" or BS (by the way, my initials). But there are also plenty of drawbacks to the way this can be done, so no hard/personal feelings get "hurt" und thus agrrevate the situation and lead to more discontent and "wrong" behaviour. Maybe anonymously after a poll? But then again, this would also mean more work for the admins or further involucration and responsibility for the OPs (which is my opinion, that they should be held more responsible for their threads and given more authoroty with that rensponsability - but that´s a different thing and not the point here).
As for your "frustrating" examples:
1.) When the "thanks" button got introduced (again), like in so many other boards, for some it´s enough just to push that button to show their appreciation, but others "need" to write a "thank you" post (which used to be the way before) - call it education, need to get the post count up, what ever... I personally think, there is nothing wrong with either method, hitting the button, or writing a thanks post. Doesn´t harm anybody, and btw, to bad the limit is 5 per day, cause a lot of times I find very usefull posts for me (mostly more than 5 per day) and I can´t thank the users for it, unless writting a thanks post. Both of these methods are positive and encouraging...
Now to the "no thanks".... It´s neither encouraging, nor positive, nor really constructive and could lead to further discussions within a thread instead of the intended result.
2.) Answered by madnish below
3.) It´s a pitty, but it´s human lazyness, sometimes not to read the posts from others (not the questions and not the answers to those questions), or simply call it egoism, wanting a personal solution, lack of time... or simply not having payed attention. I´ve answered quite some questions asked over and over again, just like a lot of other members. You can either try to help people, and remind them to use the search and/or read the thread thoroughly before posting a question...., or you can tell them their post is BS, not usefull, has been answered a million times, etc, or you can simply ignore them. All of these lead to the same result. After a while, these users tend to read, search and think before posting, so it has a positive and beneficial effect on the mid/long term...
So YES, "flagging" would be OK, depending on how it´s put into practice.
madnish30 said:
I understand, seeing battery related and other FAQ can be frustrating, but they are not exactly spam, and XDA is growing and new users are discovering the world of custom ROMs and flashing because of which certain excitement and stupidity at the same time.
It's in the right spirit to welcome and be good to new members, but indeed if you notice a particular member getting out of hand or a little to n00bish please do report and we the MODs will do the needful.
We all need to strive for a balance between the developers and old school XDA members part and the new members, it can be tough; but i'm sure it can be done
JM2C's.
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I´m kinda representing the noob´s side. I´m only a simple and yes, stupid user. No dev, no technical background, but lot´s of questions... Maybe xda used to be different and only for developers, as the name states, but times have changed and also the "kind" of members. The profile is no longer only dev´s and tec´s, but also a lot of users with different expertice (less), skills (other), background, knowledge, age, education, culture, language, etc.
All users should me more responsible, but hey, we are all human and act according to different standards, believes, etc. The only way to solve this problem is by all enforcing and encouraging the rules, "helping" out the OPs, Moderatrors & Admins to keep the threads as integer, clean and "on topic" as possible. I know there are times when some posts are interpreted (and actually are) off topic, but sometimes this is also beneficial for the users and thus for the thread itself.
Basically all this is just to say, it´s not about all that can or needs to be done by rules, limitations, mods and admins - it´s about what WE can ACTIVELY do to improve the situation and avoid it becoming worse...
Btw, I would have pushed the "no thanks" button for this request. Not because I don´t think that it´s a good thing, simply because I don´t agree with it. Very good innitiative, but in my honest and humble opinion, bad judgement, so YES, thank you, but no thanks
I just really don't understand.. I have been reading though many different threads for a long time now (lurking cuz I dont have any issues to report on) but thats not the point of my post right now...
most people are helpful and respectful and thats what we fellow android lovers should be about, BUT then there are some people that are just straight up A-holes... and people in the android community wonder what is happening to XDA as a whole... just read through pretty much any thread and you can see it...
we are all here to HELP not FLAME!!! we are NO better than others cuz we know more or have more posts, big deal, we all started out at post count 1... alot of times I wonder how old the people on here really are? cuz they act like high schoolers... again, the majority is a good group of people but alot of people need to check themselves... i hate to say it(not really) but everyone is going to rootzwiki and android central for this reason alone... DISRESPECT... think about it.... seriously, just think about it.
If we, or anyone who honestly gives a sh** wants to restore this site to its former glory, then first start showing respect!!!
/END RANT
This thread is for voicing opinions/issues ONLY!!! Rumors will not be allowed and NO flaming tolerated!!! thanks
THIS. Over in Fascinate land, we're losing our best developers as well as some VERY helpful "average users" due to an apparent surge in all-around immaturity and stupidity. Thing is, in my 27 years, I have yet to find a community (online or not) bereft of the "our community's dying!" mentality.
Wherever you have people, you have politics; wherever you have politics, you have conflict. While it's frustrating to see highly valued contributors moving on, we can still follow (and learn from) their continuing efforts while remaining part of XDA ourselves. The Internet's handy like that, but it's a double-edged sword: the masses always follow the content they desire and migrate as needed. The devs are our content providers, but donations and "Thank You" buttons can only go so far to outweigh general Internet shenanigans / douchebaggery.
Basically, I am confident that the greater XDA community will continue to thrive as long as the vast majority of users continue to conduct themselves appropriately and remain intersted in the subject matter. There'll always be petty squabbling and "shocking" departures, but it takes more than that to truly ruin a community.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
Omnichron said:
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
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I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
ssethv said:
I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
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I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
MartyLK said:
I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
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Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
Jazz848 said:
Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
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That's very true. But there are some who are not children who are just as disrespectful as some of the younger ones.
ssethv said:
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
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Though it is possible such disrespectful people could have valuable info, I would rather not use it anyway. I'm funny that way. If someone disrespects me, nothing they do is liked. And I personally don't consider anything from them of use.
Thanks for the compliment. It was an addition when I started using the ignore list.
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
@orb3000
Thanks for the feedback... I never feed the fires of a flame... I am here for two reasons only... to get info (by READING or using the search tool) and to help other people out...
I am looking forward to "said" changes coming to the site
tek818 said:
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
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I somewhat agree with you... but we all started at post count 1, and were all noobs at one time... everyone that enters this site should be treated with dignity and respect. unless, the are undeserving of it, then as Marty said "block them"
but i understand exactly what you mean.. and it can be annoying at times. thats when i go smoke a cig or take a breath and break from the computer for a while.
orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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You are going on my block list. Sheesh, flaming on a thread about stopping the flames. Shame on you!
LOL.... i cant stop laughing, you just made my day a little better
ssethv said:
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
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The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
When you're the kind of person who does things like, say, read all 800 pages of a thread (and weeding out al the useless posts) so you're sure to be up to date, then someone waltzes in and asks a question for the 100th time... it's just incredibly frustrating. For every user that does that, there's one that has come in quietly and found the information on their own, which means the information CAN be found. Heck, I was able to find it. I know it's out there. I earned it and they want it for free. So how many lazy so-and-sos should I give it away to before I get a bit irate? Frustration is instantly doubled if the post is in a Development thread.
We're all standing on the shoulders of those that have gone before us. Problem is, some n00bs don't seem to care if they kick the guys under them in the nuts on the way up. It gets old.
But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
mrkite38 said:
The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
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But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
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well said, and I understand and agree with you... I am low on my post count on this site becuase I do use the search tool and EVERY singe question known to man has been asked and answered on this site, thats why I lurk and reseach, so I don't ask the same question again... I am on Android Central and know exactly what you mean. I was asked to be a moderator but turned it down cuz I don't always have the time... I mainly try to create guides/fixes/tutorials for the thunderbolt rooting roms and hacks section.
thanks to everyone for there thoughts and replies thus far, hopefully some more people will read and take to heart all of our opinions and issues
orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, especially the bold part. But the current system in place doesn't help us report any problem posts. I've been here since 2007 (in fact the only other older person in this thread is you) and just comparing what was back in 2007 to now, the problem is worse with hot tempered devs and or members in general. Like I said the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
And while I agree that the site is mostly created by developers for developers, everyone started on page 1. Everyone started asking questions. I understand that some devs (and members) will get frustrated after the same question is asked over and over. But there isn't any need to go off the deep end. The same goes for any member. In the time that one wastes making a post flaming the member, they could have reported it or better yet, provide the answer.
I've gone through threads with hundreds of pages to get an answer, but seeing so many with flames, arguments and nonsense forces those that rather not deal with it to ask the question even if it was asked before.
Now mind you, I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere. Its a fine line to cross. Now, what the solution or middle ground is, is anyone's guess. Hopefully the upcoming changes will be a start. But in the meantime, I for one will continue to report anyone that is out of line regardless of post count or title.
TS out
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere.
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Very true!!!
the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
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Click to collapse
Hopefully this idea will be considered by the mods, its a good idea!!!
I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
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well put... thanks for contributing to this thread... I want this to get the wheels turning, I love this place and hate what is and has happened to it...
New report post system is on the way pretty soon
First of all I apologise if this suggestion has been already said and discussed. I haven't noticed it in some other thread.
I'm sick and tired of watching 10posters or just spammers to flud developers sections with their idiotic repeatable questions which are already answered in stickies, faqs, etc.
I guess since everyone in our days can buy a smartphone or tablet, this is a situation that we can not avoid that easy. But what we can do is to keep the unworthy out of dev areas at least until the prove otherwise.
10 post count is just rubbish...anyone can just troll these posts out at the OT section and he's done in 2 minutes.
Instead of post count, make it "thanks" count. If anybody has something worthy to say or is a new promising dev he can be "chosen" by the others by his thanks count.
I read many suggestions about dislike/nothanks buttons and such. This is much simplier and imho it could prove much more effective to filter out the noobs and take in the newbies that they deserve it and also can make the mods do their tracking through the forums easier.
Keep the noobs at the general section and out of the dev areas and let in those who have really something good to do or say. Everyone in here, from the users up to developers are trying to help the most they can but Jesus!!! this is not a shelter for retards or something.
I'm trying to remember when it was the last time a saw a proper dev thread not getting noob raped but I don't have so deep memories
Again I'm sorry if this has been said already
+1...ive seen people post stuff like "im trying to get 10 posts" over and over again. this will bring an end to that
but on the other hand, ive seen people with hundreds of posts and only one or two thanks
sweetnsour said:
+1...ive seen people post stuff like "im trying to get 10 posts" over and over again. this will bring an end to that
but on the other hand, ive seen people with hundreds of posts and only one or two thanks
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That's the point!
Everyone can raise their post count with one way or another. This doesn't mean that they have something useful to contribute. There are members for example 1000 posts and 5 thanks and other members (devs almost everyone) with 100 posts and 500 thanks to say the least.
I haven't seen any noob (at least in the subforums I read ) no matter how old member he is or how many posts he has, to have a high thanks count and that's because he doesn't say anything usefull to actually make other members hit that thanks button.
We got the evaluation variable, so let's use it!
Instead for thanks button to be just a cosmetic in the forums, it can really be used as an evaluation measure.
I think it should be 15 or even 20 thanks
Sent from my SCH-I400 using XDA App
I actually like that idea. Interestingly enough I've been working on my 10 posts but I've been doing it the right way.I hate spamming and its a shame that people do that.
Tapped from my CherryPi Atrix
The person who rooted the D3 on this board had to spam in a general forum to get his post count high enough to post in the dev forum.
Excellent idea. A huge +1 to this..
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk
Actually there are still some ppl who can post some usefull thoughts or questions...
Not everyone is a newbie who cant use the search button.
B-Ace said:
Actually there are still some ppl who can post some usefull thoughts or questions...
Not everyone is a newbie who cant use the search button.
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Of course there are. But for each new contributing member in here, come other 100 lamers that just want to turn their phone into a space shuttle or something. Those are the ones who make the dev threads unsufferable to follow properly. 1 good post among 50 whining and asking lame things.
Either someone should find a proper way to filter them out of the dev sections or could might as well remove completely this useless 10 post count. It serves absolutely no good.
We have the same problem on the forum I mod at, we lowered it to 5 posts and it's better this way, but still there is no perfect solution.
Right now, I'm stuck in a situation where I want to download a file linked here and I can't until I reach 10 posts, that's pretty frustrating.
It's true that even people with higher post counts don't always have many thanks, but you must also take in to consideration that the Admin/Mods recently added the "Thanks" feature. I already had around 4k post before the thanks feature was added in, and I've helped many people in different sections. It's hard to actually get around the spam on the forum, you just have to hope people have common sense to not post non-sense in the wrong section.
Abradax said:
The person who rooted the D3 on this board had to spam in a general forum to get his post count high enough to post in the dev forum.
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And as a DROID3 owner I'm so glad that he was able to get his post count up so he could post in the developers section. I also understand being frustrated with people who don't search. Even tho i don't post here often I'm here often reading threads so i can learn more about developing. If you make the requirements stricter you may want to have a way for people to bypass said requirements if deemed worthy by a mod.
I would wholeheartedly agree to this, even being new here myself, however I was browsing through 20 or so Q&A threads, and I saw one person thanked for giving an answer. There aren't a whole lot of thanks being given outside the dev forums...
Part 2... spammers making a 2nd account to thank themselves. Slightly more work ending in the same result... and more work for the mods
I've seen this idea raised before, and I love it. 100%.
The only issue is that 'thanks' are completely subjective. Someone may 'thank' a completely useless, inflammatory or derogatory post because it's funny or because they've stated the obvious, but may completely dismiss an actually useful post, with no recognition whatsoever.
Posts, on the other hand, are objective. They're universal. Whether they're **** or not, everybody gets them.
Until the 'thanks' feature gets utilised properly by all users (but remember this is a huge ask) it'll be quite difficult to implement effectively. While the 'I'm getting 10 posts' posts will disappear, the 'Why wasn't I thanked for...' will go through the roof.
juzz86 said:
I've seen this idea raised before, and I love it. 100%.
The only issue is that 'thanks' are completely subjective. Someone may 'thank' a completely useless, inflammatory or derogatory post because it's funny or because they've stated the obvious, but may completely dismiss an actually useful post, with no recognition whatsoever.
Posts, on the other hand, are objective. They're universal. Whether they're **** or not, everybody gets them.
Until the 'thanks' feature gets utilised properly by all users (but remember this is a huge ask) it'll be quite difficult to implement effectively. While the 'I'm getting 10 posts' posts will disappear, the 'Why wasn't I thanked for...' will go through the roof.
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Yes you're right, usage of the thanks button is completely subjective and this is obvious all around the forums.
But still, even under those circumstances there is a pattern even if it is a bit loose.
Contributing active users and devs especially tend to have more thanks than the rest of the mass. Maybe this "trend" it could be used in a way to clear out dev forums and keep it this way.
This is how I originally thought of its application and imho I believe it's making more sense.
mprou said:
Yes you're right, usage of the thanks button is completely subjective and this is obvious all around the forums.
But still, even under those circumstances there is a pattern even if it is a bit loose.
Contributing active users and devs especially tend to have more thanks than the rest of the mass. Maybe this "trend" it could be used in a way to clear out dev forums and keep it this way.
This is how I originally thought of its application and imho I believe it's making more sense.
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You are 100% correct.
Devs and solid members tend to have a much higher 'thanks' count than others. It would be a good way of thinning down the crap in the Dev forums, for sure.
It could even be broadened, so that you had to have X number of posts, and X% of your total post count 'thanks'.
neilrl79 said:
And as a DROID3 owner I'm so glad that he was able to get his post count up so he could post in the developers section.
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I ended up here too because I have a D3 and wanted to just thank the person who posted about getting root access. Signed up just to do so. But apparently I can't, either because I haven't existed long enough or haven't made enough posts.
I also see people with less than 10 posts posting in the dev forums, asking the same redundant questions that the 10 post limit is supposed to detour. x.x
While I do agree, I don't think it will rid us of the scourge of noobs with entitlement issues. I literally saw someone post and ***** about the 10 post limit saying "I'm a customer of that product and I should be able to tell him what to do" <-- verbatim.
I just don't want to see the kids who think they are entitled to everything, also the thanks being subjective is completely true, I have helped around 50 people total in the past month or 2 and yet only 19 thanks. That proves people really only thank you if they feel like it or if they are actually grateful rather than just "Oh cool some dude on the internet helped me" *leaves xda forever* No, I am not complaining about my amount of thanks, I'm glad I was able to help people regardless, I'm just showing it's completely subjective.
Indirect said:
While I do agree, I don't think it will rid us of the scourge of noobs with entitlement issues. I literally saw someone post and ***** about the 10 post limit saying "I'm a customer of that product and I should be able to tell him what to do" <-- verbatim.
I just don't want to see the kids who think they are entitled to everything, also the thanks being subjective is completely true, I have helped around 50 people total in the past month or 2 and yet only 19 thanks. That proves people really only thank you if they feel like it or if they are actually grateful rather than just "Oh cool some dude on the internet helped me" *leaves xda forever* No, I am not complaining about my amount of thanks, I'm glad I was able to help people regardless, I'm just showing it's completely subjective.
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Thanks Indirect!
Seriously, we had a similar issue on another board of which I am an admin, what we did is put a 50 post count limit on new accounts in addition to a throttle of course for daily limits. It sort of works but the quality of the posts went down significantly.
The thanks idea is better but as stated a few posts above it's really subjective.
Instead of thanks I might suggest reputation levels. When the users rep level is zero or when it hits a new "low" the section moderator can chose to make his perms go to read only. The user can protest and or try and improve on it by helping or keeping in the general sections.
I am not too particularly fond of these types of comments either.
"I didn't need that file jackass!"
or
"I need help now because I am Chuck Norris dammit!"
By using that system peers can get pretty mean but it really starts to get people to think about what they post. Everybody has to start somewhere.
That's my 2Cents.
Well, I actually don't like the idea of reputation because on another forum there are "repwhores" and rep becomes kind of like a commidity. I'm not saying that's what will happen here, it's just a chance it could. It happened with alot of the 13-15 year old members and though they aren't common here, that doesn't make it impossible for them to be here. D:
Why are you judging members by their post count?
For lack of a better alternative. I challenge anyone to come up with a better alternative.
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OK. You need a 'user points' system. I'm more familiar with Drupal than vb (you should probably upgrade sometime), so I'm not sure what's available for vb, if anything. You want something similar to this: http://drupal.org/project/userpoints
Users then earn points for performing certain actions on your site (not just posting), you can assign different amounts of points for different actions. Points can be removed too.
Then have a minimum userpoint limit for posting in certain forums.
Then you'd have better control over what activities you were encouraging users to do, rather than just encouraging short spam posts.
Chalenge accepted.
wbaw said:
12aon said:
]Why are you judging members by their post count?
For lack of a better alternative. I challenge anyone to come up with a better alternative, and share it with us.
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OK. You need a 'user points' system.
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First of all I'd like to say "challenge accepted"
@wbaw: I like your Idea of a 'user points' system. To make sure that there are only posts that are above a certain level of standard, you need to create some kind of 'filter'. But I think that, such a system as you have suggested could be exploited as well. As long as there are technical rules to be fulfilled one can just do so and get his status right.
@12aon: In my opinion we need a rating system for the quality of posts and based on this a hiding mechanism for posts.
Let me explain why I came up and what I mean by this.
I have to confess that I'm a heavy user of youtube. And here you have a good example what I mean. You do not only have the ability to press a "like", "+1" or "thump up" -button but also the possibility to press "thumps down". What I figured out is, that the rating of the videos are surprisingly close to my own opinion. That implies that everyone is sensitive to the quality of a video (or post?!?) and furthermore that the average opinion about the quality is in average the opinion of the single reader itself (myself).
In the XDA-Forum you have the "Thanks" button. What I suggest is a ... hmmm ... "ingratitude" button (or just do "thumps up and down", "plus and minus", "happy and sad" or whatever you like). Each user has a single voice for each post.
With this mechanism in place, a post that is below a certain threshold could be automatically minimized. I don't mean that they should be deleted, because there might be answers that refer to this particular post. But by minimizing it, bad quality posts get out of the focus of the reader. If wanted, one can still expand and read it (by pressing some kind of an "open button").
That is the first step. In the second step there is a user rating that is based on the post rating of all his posts. So if one does not mind his behavior or is asking stupid questions over and over again. His Account is restricted to post only in the non developer parts of the forum.
The first advantage by applying this functionality is, that silly posts get quite fast out of the focus of the reader.
The second advantage is that silly poster (no offense here ^^) are removed from development forums in the long run.
The third advantage is, that one have to take care of all his posts even in the long run (writing 10 posts does not necessarily means that one have learned its lesson). So the over all quality of the forum itself is increasing.
In my opinion this functionality is a little bit better than restricting everyone (even the high quality poster) to non development forums just because they are not active enough to reach 10 posts.
The problem is, to define the threshold. I've some ideas in my mind, but that would leave the scope of this post which is to invite a new (I know its old, but new to this forum) idea.
Cheers
Ponsel
p.S. Sorry 4 my bad English. Its not my native language.
wbaw said:
OK. You need a 'user points' system. I'm more familiar with Drupal than vb (you should probably upgrade sometime), so I'm not sure what's available for vb, if anything. You want something similar to this: http://drupal.org/project/userpoints
Users then earn points for performing certain actions on your site (not just posting), you can assign different amounts of points for different actions. Points can be removed too.
Then have a minimum userpoint limit for posting in certain forums.
Then you'd have better control over what activities you were encouraging users to do, rather than just encouraging short spam posts.
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Click to collapse
I appreciate your ideas on this topic, although I have to admit I am really mystified by this: "....rather than just encouraging short spam posts".
Why do you believe that encouraging users to post in the proper sections with helpful answers to other users is "encouraging short spam posts"? I seriously don't get this idea. It is not really any more difficult to try a little to post even marginally helpful answers to other people in the General and Q&A forums as opposed to "short spam posts".
It is not like getting 10 not-spam posts is that difficult. Probably hundreds do it any given week here. Is it too much to ask that people read a little first, gain some knowledge, try to be a little helpful to others in the General, Q&A, Themes and Apps, and Accessories device forums, or in the general discussion forums, in order to be able to post into any dev thread on this site?
I am not sure if there is a way to add this type of functionality to VBulletin, but I think it just becomes a meaningless stat over time just like the thanks counter, and users will figure out a way to scam it as well.
Ponsel said:
First of all I'd like to say "challenge accepted"
@12aon: In my opinion we need a rating system for the quality of posts and based on this a hiding mechanism for posts.
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This is already in the works from what I hear, there will be rating buttons on each post, enough positive votes raises it up, enough negative votes hides it (not delete).
mf2112 said:
Ponsel said:
First of all I'd like to say "challenge accepted"
@12aon: In my opinion we need a rating system for the quality of posts and based on this a hiding mechanism for posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is already in the works from what I hear, there will be rating buttons on each post, enough positive votes raises it up, enough negative votes hides it (not delete).
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That sounds great. I'd love to increase the visibility of my favorite ROM and further more rate away bad posts.
Cheers
Ponsel
p.S. Just writing to increase my "noob counter" ;-D
Ponsel said:
That sounds great. I'd love to increase the visibility of my favorite ROM and further more rate away bad posts.
Cheers
Ponsel
p.S. Just writing to increase my "noob counter" ;-D
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I would advise not writing posts to simply increase your post count. That can get the wrong kind of attention. Instead, simply try to write good posts that help people less experienced than you in your devices General or Q&A forum and it won't ever be a problem to worry about.
@wbaw - While the user points system would be a massive change to how things are run at the moment, I can't help feeling that mf2112 is completely right when he says that it'll become just like the thanks button.
In an ideal world, it would be a great idea and would work perfectly well. But in amongst the realms of the internet, a lot of people will simply do all they can just so they can post something wherever they'd like to.
@Ponsel - Even though this rating system can be a great idea and will probably be put into action at some point, I can't help feeling that this system will be exploited aswell.
I say this because quite a few times, in my short time here, I've seen moments when there's been a casual discussion going on with 6/7 people and everything's going great. Then all of a sudden, one states their opinion and none of the others agree with it or like it, so they all gang up on the individual.
In this instance, the 'gang' could quite easily vote all the individuals comments down, thus resulting in him/her being penalized.
Obviously the situation would be able to be rectified in the end, but until a mod has been able to view the whole situation, the individual would still have to be without certain posting rights, which wouldn't be fair.
The third advantage is, that one have to take care of all his posts even in the long run (writing 10 posts does not necessarily means that one have learned its lesson). So the over all quality of the forum itself is increasing.
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^^^I really love this bit because as you mention, people will have to take care of what they post, even if they have thousands of posts. Also, I really do think it would improve the forum quality aswell. Only time will tell as to whether it with get implemented or not and whether it would even be effective, but I do like the idea so far.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
mf2112 said:
Ponsel said:
p.S. Just writing to increase my "noob counter" ;-D
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would advise not writing posts to simply increase your post count.
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I just could not resist to show how easy it is to exploit the "noob counter" system. You just need to start a discussion and keep trolling.
But here's the non trolling reply:
KidCarter93 said:
@Ponsel - Even though this rating system can be a great idea and will probably be put into action at some point, I can't help feeling that this system will be exploited aswell.
I say this because quite a few times, in my short time here, I've seen moments when there's been a casual discussion going on with 6/7 people and everything's going great. Then all of a sudden, one states their opinion and none of the others agree with it or like it, so they all gang up on the individual.
In this instance, the 'gang' could quite easily vote all the individuals comments down, thus resulting in him/her being penalized.
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I know, that my idea is not without any fault. But I think that this problem can be solved by a good threshold. I think its to early to go into details, but to support my idea and to encourage everyone to participate in this discussion (I can't fight the feeling that I'm just trolling again ^^) I'll now suggest one possible solution how to solve this problem.
I think the threshold should work in two steps:
Step 1. As long as there are no more than 5 ratings the post is visible.
Step 2. As long as there are 10% or more positive votes the post should still be visible.
These numbers have materialized out of thin air in front of my inner eye and I'd be glad if some "number cruncher" could calculate better ones. But first let me explain why I've chosen this particular ones.
First of all I'd like to state that I'd rather let a bad post stay visible then losing a good idea. So I would be very careful when filtering them out. By the method that I've suggested, a post would be as visible as long as not at least 6 persons have rated against it. And even then a single positive vote can keep the post above the threshold until there are 10 negative votes against it.
Normal posts will get voted very seldom (just because they don't polarize as much).
Posts that polarize will get some positive and some negative votes and stay above the threshold.
I figure that bad posts are so obvious bad that barely anyone will ever vote them positive (well ... the poster should not be allowed to rate his own post ^^).
The rating system for the account itself must work somehow different. I've no Idea how it should work, but I think that the lowest 5-15% of the "most unpopular" accounts should be restricted on non development forums (these numbers are out of thin air as well ^^).
KidCarter93 said:
Ponsel said:
The third advantage is, that one have to take care of all his posts even in the long run (writing 10 posts does not necessarily means that one have learned its lesson). So the over all quality of the forum itself is increasing.
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^^^I really love this bit because as you mention, people will have to take care of what they post, even if they have thousands of posts. Also, I really do think it would improve the forum quality aswell. Only time will tell as to whether it with get implemented or not and whether it would even be effective, but I do like the idea so far.
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Well in this point I'm not sooo optimistic because normal posts rarely get a rating at all. Giving those assumption someone with a lot of posts might stay above the threshold. It might be advisable to take only the posts with a rating into account, but I'm not sure.
I hope my remarks support my Idea of a rating system for posts ^^
Cheers
Ponsel
only issue i have is i am very experience in flashing roms just new to this site and i have a couple very specific questions about ombg nand and i could not ask. which is my main reason for signing up. there is a ton of great info here but i was having a specific issue with the rom on my rhod400 and i hope to get a answer in general since i couldnt ask directly in that thread.
orangezx10r said:
only issue i have is i am very experience in flashing roms just new to this site and i have a couple very specific questions about ombg nand and i could not ask. which is my main reason for signing up. there is a ton of great info here but i was having a specific issue with the rom on my rhod400 and i hope to get a answer in general since i couldnt ask directly in that thread.
Click to expand...
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As others have stated, you should make some helpful posts around the forums. If you say you're sharp at flashing, I'm sure there's a ton of questions you can answer around the forums.
The TP2 is a strange device, in that it runs both Android and WinMo. We really need an "Android General" section for the TP2, which I have tried many times to get...
So unfortunately there's not a whole lot you can do. Just don't go spamming forums with worthless drivel... that will certainly get you unwanted attention.
This is the kind of thing we think about a lot. We actually do have a "points" system in beta on some forums but there are a lot of issues that come into play when you start showing/hiding threads based on points. What if a group gets together and starts voting competing projects down in collective voting blocks?
Right now we simply ask that in order to post in certain sections, that you help others out first. It may not be the ideal solution but it is working for the community at the moment.
Anyway, rest assured we continually evaluate the best way to balance user interaction vs limiting the cruft.
bitpushr said:
This is the kind of thing we think about a lot. We actually do have a "points" system in beta on some forums but there are a lot of issues that come into play when you start showing/hiding threads based on points. What if a group gets together and starts voting competing projects down in collective voting blocks?
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I'm not quite sure how to answer this. I'll try it anyway
My suggestion is for single posts, not for threads. Probably its a good idea to disable the the voting for the initial post of a thread.
It's all about visibility. I don't want to delete the post, just minimize it within the thread.
I'd like to mention the REALLY low threshold. 10% means that every 10 negative votes can be countered by one single positive vote.
If there is a project that figures that there is a competitor the competitor itself must have accumulated enough interest to be recognized as such one. That means that there is a fan base to keep it above the threshold mentioned in point 3.
Last but not least. It might sound harsh, but if a Project can not build up as many fans as needed to defend itself, then probably this project might be not worth working on it (just a thought).
Cheers
Ponsel
We can mention who all have voted up/down on every post (through some expandable option, ofcourse)..
This way, group behaviour can be identified, and accordingly dealt with, by the mods...
Ponsel said:
[*]Last but not least. It might sound harsh, but if a Project can not build up as many fans as needed to defend itself, then probably this project might be not worth working on it (just a thought).
Cheers
Ponsel
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Sorry but an app that is genuinely useful but may only have a handful of responses is just as, if not more valuable to a site like this than some annoying fart/wallpaper application which may have hundreds.
Quantity of responses/thanks clicks is no gauge for quality.
This is a difficult issue to approach and I don't really have an answer for you but my personal feeling has always been that the post count limit should be raised.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
conantroutman said:
Sorry but an app that is genuinely useful but may only have a handful of responses is just as, if not more valuable to a site like this than some annoying fart/wallpaper application which may have hundreds.
Quantity of responses/thanks clicks is no gauge for quality.
This is a difficult issue to approach and I don't really have an answer for you but my personal feeling has always been that the post count limit should be raised.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
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Click to collapse
You,sir,are amazing... LOL... Anyway,i also agree that the post count limit should be increased rather than decreased..
conantroutman said:
Sorry but an app that is genuinely useful but may only have a handful of responses is just as, if not more valuable to a site like this than some annoying fart/wallpaper application which may have hundreds.
Click to expand...
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See point 4 on my list. A project as small as you seems to have in mind, would never collect enough attention to be recognized as a competitor. it's just to small.
conantroutman said:
Quantity of responses/thanks clicks is no gauge for quality.
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Neither is a "noob counter".
conantroutman said:
This is a difficult issue to approach and I don't really have an answer for you but my personal feeling has always been that the post count limit should be raised.
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Following your argumentation that even small projects might contribute to the developer community, I'd like to express the thought, that even the first post of a completely new account could include the spark of genius that is needed to solve a problem for which even recognized developers could provide a solution since years. One should not use different standards to similar problems. :angel::laugh:
conantroutman said:
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
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Quality of a post is not only based on its contents, but on the manners of the poster as well. The phrase quoted would have made me hesitating to give a positive vote (neither would I rate it down, because your arguments help to figure out the pro and cons of my suggestion and we urgently need to discuss the boundaries of a new idea before doing a field test).
Cheers
Ponsel
Ponsel said:
See point 4 on my list. A project as small as you seems to have in mind, would never collect enough attention to be recognized as a competitor. it's just to small.
The examples given aren't really important, its the principle, just because something is popular does not make it any more relevant or valid. I'm also unsure where the idea of competition comes from. XDA is about collaboration not competition.
Neither is a "noob counter".
It's not a counter, it's a period of introduction to the forums and a chance to contribute to the community befor gaining access to the development forums. It's unfortunate that such measures are necessary but due to the majority of new member simply wishing to ask inane questions or make demands of the developers, they are necessary.
Following your argumentation that even small projects might contribute to the developer community, I'd like to express the thought, that even the first post of a completely new account could include the spark of genius that is needed to solve a problem for which even recognized developers could provide a solution since years. One should not use different standards to similar problems. :angel::laugh:
Very true and one of the major drawbacks to this rule. However, anyone with such knowledge will no doubt either make ten useful posts or alert the relevant party via PM. Anyone who has the attitude of "I know the answer but I'm not sharing it because of the ten post rule" is probably not suited to XDA.
Quality of a post is not only based on its contents, but on the manners of the poster as well. The phrase quoted would have made me hesitating to give a positive vote (neither would I rate it down, because your arguments help to figure out the pro and cons of my suggestion and we urgently need to discuss the boundaries of a new idea before doing a field test).
lol, the phrase you quoted here is my mobile signature and not directed at you or your post here
Cheers
Ponsel
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Responded to your points in red.
Here is my take on the 10-post "issue". I signed up for the forum a few days ago to hopefully get an answer regarding the win mobile phones and Ive searched for an answer and could not find one. I'm not a windows phone user so I dont have a lot of knowledge about the devices so Im not the best person to help (hence lowering my post count). So I have to reply with posts like this to be able to post a real question in the category I really want to post it in. I've asked the question in the Q&A section but because its flooded with everyone's questions I dont think people actually go there to help assist anyone (my short observation).
vitaliyt said:
Here is my take on the 10-post "issue". I signed up for the forum a few days ago to hopefully get an answer regarding the win mobile phones and Ive searched for an answer and could not find one. I'm not a windows phone user so I dont have a lot of knowledge about the devices so Im not the best person to help (hence lowering my post count). So I have to reply with posts like this to be able to post a real question in the category I really want to post it in. I've asked the question in the Q&A section but because its flooded with everyone's questions I dont think people actually go there to help assist anyone (my short observation).
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The development section is not the place for questions. I can assure that posting a question there will get you a response, however it won't be the one you want.
So here is my partial proposed solution to the issue. Upon signup, perhaps the users need to go through a rotating question system (10 questions?) and another captcha? This may take the user longer to sign up and be able to post but maybe there wont be so many abandoned user accounts, not sure if you have current viability on this or not.
Abandoned accounts is not the problem...
The problem is that people think that the dev area is for newb questions...it isn't...
Hence, the initial limitation posed to all, so that they atleast try and understand what this site is about...
"By the power vested in me, I now pronounce you, Man and Knife"
Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!! They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming! If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life. Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.
Let me begin by saying that I'm not attacking you or anyone else personally in this reply. My intention is to illustrate the other side of this argument. You see useless members starting flame wars; I see members protecting other users from potentially bricking their devices, teaching them manners, and upholding the sanctity of our developer forums.
petermg said:
Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!!
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I can assure you that the majority of the time, the person in which the flame is directed did not use the search feature. If they did, then common sense would dictate that you give the most amount of information relevant to your problem in order for someone else to help. We are not mind readers. If the majority of the problems that are posted about here could have been answered by the simple use of the search feature, and that person did not use it, well, it gets extraordinarily annoying after a time. In any case, if they did search, but didn't provide that bit of information in their post, then you can't get mad at us for not being mind readers.
They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming!
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This is an issue which is always in a bit of flux here. You have to understand that this isn't a support website. This website is dedicated to development. As such, developers on this website come first and foremost. If you or anyone else decide to clutter up the development forums, which are provided as a haven for our developers, with inane posts about simple things that could have been answered with the search feature or should have simply been posted in the proper forum, this too gets very old very quickly. I'm not condoning the flaming, but you have to accept that there is just cause for the disdain on this topic.
If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
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First off, as a mod, tracking down these people should not be your primary concern. There are far more pressing matters to attend to than this select group of people. Besides, pointing out the obvious isn't against the rules. Cross posting, however, is against the rules. The bottom line for the time-sensitive posts is that it is a risk you take by flashing a custom ROM, or doing something the manufacturer didn't intend. It comes back around to my point about us not being a support website. If someone has the spare time to get you an answer, then good for you, but it is never something that anyone should expect here.
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
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More likely than not, you simply need to change your search terms. If you aren't able to find your answer by searching, then make a post about it letting us know what exactly you searched for that garnered no results.
This does two things:
1) It narrows down our search criteria to exclude the terms you have already exhausted.
2) It shows us that you didn't come here just to leach an answer from the community, but also put in some effort at troubleshooting your own issue.
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life.
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This happens because most of the senior members here, including myself, feel that anyone with half a brain should be able to tell that questions go in the question and answers fora. They are labeled like that for a reason. If you didn't create something developmental, then there isn't a reason to post a thread in the development fora.
Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.
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Just because people know about Google doesn't mean they've actually used it. It is far more rare to come across a user asking a question who has done a search first than not.
The problem isn't so much about people asking questions. The problem lies a bit deeper now. Things used to be different here, indeed. I've personally been a registered XDA user for 6 years now. Things were more development focused back in the old WM days. It was normally only those of us who were looking for ways to get more out of our Pocket PCs that would frequent the forum. This mentality you are describing wasn't any different then from what it is today. The only difference is that now that Android has flooded the market that Apple made popular, we have a different set of users who are looking for a different type of development.
When I was a noob here, the flaming for not searching and doing the work myself was what eventually taught me how to find my own answers and not rely on others to support my device. I learned how to search, compose a proper post, and ask for help in a way that showed I wasn't trying to be a leach but had legitimately tried to solve my issue and failed.
The other big difference at the time was the age difference between WM users and the current generation of Android and iOS users. Back then, WM users were generally in their 20s or older. Most of the people using it, such as myself, needed it as a professional portable workstation. We had a more mature mentality towards our precious piece of technology. There were few times where you could get one of these Pocket PCs for under $400, so we valued what we had spent our money on, since insurance claims on them were all but nonexistent at the time. If we did something wrong, then there was a good chance that our expensive gadget would be just another paperweight. Since a fair portion of us needed these devices for a daily job, there was more caution thrown towards modding, flashing, or installing software.
Now, our devices are known as smartphones, and our users are mostly teenagers to whom their device was given by their parents. They don't have the same sense of worth towards their devices that used to be present since they didn't pay anything for it, or paid very little.
These users aren't taught that respect needs to be show if you want to receive it. I know it may seem as though they didn't say anything warranting a flame war, but by not showing other members of this community who donate their time to it enough respect to out line their problem and how they tried to solve it, all it sounds like to us is, "Here, I broke this. You need to fix it for me for free."
I hope that this has shown you the other side of the coin.
There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.
im also newbie,still learning to theme my rom,applying and make new mod from the tutorial that posted here in developement forum,i read all threads and posts to understand how to make it on my phone,not just asking for help,if you say you are tired reading all threads and posts to find an answer,what about the devs??are'nt they tired of answering same question over and over??say something with you mind open,just an advice
Sent from my LT18i
Some good points made on each side, but the fact is that this is NOT the regular use forum, it's for the "pro" people, so I think it's understandable when they get annoyed with some of the users asking seemingly simple questions.
zelendel said:
There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.
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xda is for developers and users.
Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
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No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
If you are in urgent need of help I would recommend trying IRC first, it's usually a lot easier to get real time feedback from people on there compared to a forum.
Some of the flaming may be unnecessary, but you have to realize that a large amount of time goes into a lot of the ROMs, kernels, etc. If you're nice enough to share it then you deserve to have a chance for everyone to see it. To have everyone bury their posts just so they can ask a question is inconsiderate, to say the least. Plus the clutter makes it harder for those looking for something to find it.
When I first started lurking here I only needed to see one question in the dev section for me to figure out that was the last place to post one. Sure I was cautious the first time or two I posted there, but you better believe I made sure it fit in with the other posts there before I posted it.
cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
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You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.
arrrghhh said:
You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.
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Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
conantroutman said:
Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
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Save your trolling for OT. I'll meet you there later. Lol
I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.
Archer said:
I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.
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I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.
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Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.
Archer said:
Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.
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Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.
cajunflavoredbob said:
Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.
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Hahaha nah mate - I wasn't referring to you. You're still a troll
This sort of thing happens all the time in automotive forums, oldsters get super cranky from answering the same questions over and over and new people get mad because they're told to use search literally every time they have a question valid or not. You're probably going to find that this is an issue no matter where you go on the internet.
The only time I've seen this mostly resolved is on a forum where moderation of user behavior is swift, brutal, and pretty impartial, and registration to the forum costs $10. Not likely to work on a forum such as this.
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To compliment and support what cajunflavoredbob mentioned, please read my signature, you may now understand the nature of XDA:
This is and always will be a site for developers, pure and simple. Without them we are nothing, without them there would be no reason for XDA Developers to exist; we should never ever forget that. Without them this place would not be called XDA-Developers but something else, e.g Mobile Phone User Support Services For Ungrateful Nerds.
XDA is about developing and is for developers. Any user that recognises that will gain the most benefit from this site
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Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
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cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
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Jesus! A quick search would have brought up like 20+ threads just like this one. All of them with the same answer. You could have googled Asshats with tudes and XDA would have been your first answer. Read the rules! Post only when posted at! Never wear white after labor day, and some other stuff that is off topic!!!!
Here is something I don't understand. Yes this site might be for developers, but without users developers would server no purpose so that claim that this isn't for both users and developers seems counter productive. I myself haven't gotten around to making 10+ posts just to justify my rooting knowledge.
Yet the fact remains that without users the developers wouldn't really need to even have a website like this or it would be private which it's clearly not. How many bigger developers actually live off of their user donations?
Just my two cents, but I disagree.