Related
I have frequented this site over the past few weeks or so and am outright disturbed by the disrespect some "NEW" members are getting. I haven't actually encountered this personally, but as I have read numerous post, I see things that make me want to turn around and split! Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members. Is this really tolerated here? I really hope not because I like the site for the most part. I just refuse to be part of a forum that lets rudeness and disrespect go unattended.
I don't mean to be a bother, but the forum I moderate at would NEVER let this happen. We BAN members for disrespecting one another. I thought that's what I would encounter here as well.
I am not really looking for a response here, just wanted to let someone who cares know what I experienced over the past few weeks here as a new member. Thank you to whomever takes the time and interest to read this.
-Tommy
NOTE TO ALL: DO NOT POST REPLIES TO THIS THREAD! IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ALREADY. THANKS -Tommy
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm glad to see you guys are aware of this and working to cut down on the rudeness. I myself have told "newer" members to search instead of posting new threads that look like new mods as well. I do like the site though, and will continue to frequent it. I am SOLD on htc's, as I have recently chased a TD2 and love it. I will also be able to contribute new mods as soon as I can get used to the platform.
Thanks again,
-Tommy
tomtommy306 said:
Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members.
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Tommy, I'm someone who felt, 2 years ago, exactly what you describe here. It was always justified as senior members getting tired of volunteering their time to help people -- only to have some new members bypass reading any "sticky threads" or any admonitions to "please read before posting a new thread" (in which tips are provided for how to get answers to frequently asked questions) -- and seemingly never bothering to search at all.
Over the past 2 years I have observed 2 things, trend-wise: (1) Once I gained some decent baseline proficiency in understanding how the basics work re upgrading my phone with new & improved software, I then started to see, as though appearing for the first time (but they were always present) the TONS of repeated questions and downright disrespect some new members had for even following the most basic of protocols -- like -- "please post that at the forum dedicated to your phone model; you can find it here..." generating responses like
"I don't have time for that. I just need to know what HardSPL means and where I can find the latest ROM for my T-Mobile Wing"
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Personally I attribute a HUGE amount of this to the less-than-optimal information design of this site, which sends people back and forth from here to there to a wiki, then searching for acronyms and definitions, then to a sticky thread (MANY OF WHICH ARE NOW OUTDATED AND HAVE BEEN FOR OVER A YEAR), then back to a hacking section, being shouted at that "this isn't for asking questions, moron; this is for contributing software hacks", and eventually generating some dog-chasing-tail experiences for new members. One of the people working his damned hardest to help minimize this is nir36 (SHOUTOUT!) with his excellent GUIDES, and with his patience within the "Questions and Answers" section.
But -- (2) Here's what I have also seen: A huge disruption of culture here at XDA, prompted, I believe, by the mainstreaming of touchscreen phones with the introduction of Apple's iPhone. Two- to three- to four years ago, the people who frequented this site were predominantly hackers who banded together to solve many of the deficiencies of WindowsMobile software, and who shared their expertise knowing that other people's expertise would benefit them and solve annoying problems, or push a certain envelope. There was, as a result, a culture of CONTRIBUTION, vs one of "gimme gimme gimme, I don't have time, just gimme".
I've seen many an essay posted here by veteran members of XDA expressing a real frustration for some of the behaviors caused by the new influx of people seeing tricks and hacks now posted on YouTube, and then discovering XDA, and coming here to "find that and get it onto my device".
This has created a culture clash which is totally understandable from both sides of of the issue. There's more and more abuse of basic rules & process, where, as I said, more people seek to bypass all that rigamaroll and just post wherever it seems to fit, and seek a specific answer about how to get XXX on my device. There are MANY MANY senior members, even veteran senior members who've been here 4-5 years, who still use a soft touch in asking people to "read this FAQ please" or "please post that in THIS forum". But at the same time, when the response to gentle nudges like that is along the lines of "I don't have time for that, I'm in a hurry, and I just need to get this installed", then patience grows thin.
And so yes, of course, you'll see people snapping at one another. But it's born of frustration for the lack of respect of the culture of XDA -- where it had always been part of the quest to have new people work a little at finding answers, not to punish them, but rather to help them connect the dots and see the solutions available to them, and how they often build atop prior work.
Anyway these are my thoughts. I speak only as a member, not as any representative of the site or group of Mods.
I have been looking around quite a bit lately(here @ XDA), and have better feelings about it. There are a lot more helpful and kind people here, then there are rude ones. I guess I was running into a lot of newer members that were being disrespectful to the seniors. I understand the frustrations of members not being appreciative as I see it often where I mod. It does get frustrating when people don't say "please" and "thank you" , but some people must have forgotten what their families have taught them. MANNERS...
I will continue to be around the site.
You ALL do great work here, and I appreciate the time and effort involved.
I rarely ask for help, but I wanted to know it was welcome, just in case.
We are all here for the same thing, and I am very glad to have found XDA to fuel my need.
The site has a great REP, and that means a lot to me.
It was also the reason for concern in the first place.
Thanks again guys,
-Tommy
Note to MODS or ADMINS: PLEASE CLOSE or DELETE THIS THREAD. I am very happy with the responses I have been given, and am happy to be here. The topic will not be brought up again unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
vijay555 said:
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
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You got that right.... Howard forums are very out there.
That's where I discovered modding cell phones for the first time.
If any complaints were ever to arise(doubtful), I would communicate via PM only.
Thanks vijay.
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
Drybonz said:
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
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Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
tomtommy306 said:
Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
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Well an assumption is an assumption. There is nothing you can do about it if a skeptic has little information to analyze.
To explain the frustrations of the "meanies" here are two situations I come up with:
Situation 1
The problem is that XDA is very likely to be the most visited forum as a technical support forum but stupid idiots are just too stupid to fix their problem when the answer is right there.
Example
For example, I have seen plenty on the Xperia forums in which some dude asks for panels when it is available as a sticky called "panels library" and the links worked at the moment, and yet the he requests for an existing panel.
Situation 2
Someone asks for a Windows Live Messenger download, and he/she says that he "looked everywhere, up and down" ... I tell him that it's easy to find and he isn't really looking ... he defense himself saying that he really did look ... we say o rly?
Example
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=517909
By the way, I declare this a skeleton war, since both of you are likely to argue and you both have skull faces
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
But if a skeleton war is in order...... I have some tattooed on me and am infatuated with them, so I WIN...hahaha
sakshamkatyal said:
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
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Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
tomtommy306 said:
Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
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No its not mine but it was our's.
Even we are stunned with what happened to her in this little age.
get more about her here.
http://www.supportalessandra.com/
I wish you have a nice time over here. Dont worry xda is community inhabited more by mature people fortunately. Or else mods would be always there.
Regards
Saksham Katyal
tomtommy306 said:
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
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Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
Drybonz said:
Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
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What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
poetryrocksalot said:
Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
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Dunno... I'm 32 and I was quoting it.
Yeash, this is turning into that thread about religion.
Guys, please.
Noobs: sometimes, seniors get tired of answering the same old questions that can be easily found by a quick google.
Seniors: sometimes noobs are coming from a world of Nokias and iphones. You live in a world where people make ROMs for fun. Seriously.
The lot of you: you live in a world where you rub shoulders with Doctor Manhattan style giants, and don't even know it. Some of the guys on this site will astound you with their knowledge of the intricacies of the minutiae of the encryption systems used in the CE rom structure. They could blow you all away.
Experience is a sliding scale, and even George Lucas knows that "there's always a bigger fish".
Everyone should be polite, you were all noobs once.
V
PS be polite, serious, cus I'll start getting medieval soon.
poetryrocksalot said:
What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
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Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
wagonis said:
Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
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kudos to you sir
I agree with Wagonis: just ignore any remarks by others that you dislike for any reason.
To Tomtommy: I agree with you that everyone ought to be polite, it is an excellent thing to strive for yourself. But if you let impolite remarks bother you, you just make things worse than they need be. If you ignore them, they will bother you far less. Indignation is a dangerous emotion, because it tends to swell with time. Just let people bicker; when they are really offended, they will make it known. Most people can take a bit of bullying.
[What I am going to say now borders on the insolent, so that I must apologize beforehand, but: I think those who are most insecure about themselves are the ones most easily offended. Those who are confident just think: "oh, an impolite remark" without experiencing much emotional impact. Sometimes, others are judged "offended" even when they themselves do not care.
Another option is that there are just differences in culture: in some groups, rude remarks are considered a form of innocent teasing.]
Similar to "Thanks" button, please add "Unhelpful" or "Dislike" button
Some forums on here have grown out of control with nonsense and useless posts and it is too much and even unnecessary work sometimes, for mods to have to deal with. The thousands of users that read these posts daily are perfectly capable of judging these posts and should be able to + or - a post based on its usefulness. This +/- button could be attached to every post similar to the way the "Thanks" button is. It wouldn't require every post to be +'ed or -'ed, but usually the REALLY HELPFUL posts would be +'ed (similar to being thanked) and the real BS posts would be ranked down. Simple.
People who don't bother to read or search first before posting something are an annoyance for many in this community.. and posting stickies at the top of every page titled "PLEASE READ FIRST" or anything similar just doesn't work. Users then "flame" one another, and that doesn't help in correcting the problem either. Additionally, the mods shouldn't have to be monitoring posts like they would a kindergarten class.
Allowing users to simply rate posts with a +/- like on many other sites, would improve the visibility of helpful posts on this forum greatly, while allowing nonsense posts to be hidden. When a posts receives an overwhelming number of -'s as opposed to +'s, that post will be automatically hidden so that other users may ignore it. There is already a "Thanks" button to thank users for being helpful; I think it's unrealistic to not include a way to flag unhelpful posts as well since there are just as many of those. (These aren't always derogatory or negative posts that SHOULD be reported to mods, but instead just wasteful and nonsense posts that add nothing informative to a thread).
Yes, this is a community where we are all here to help each other. In reality though, some users just don't care about anything except what they're here for and end up cluttering the forums with questions that have been answered several times before, or posting in wrong sections, etc . Those posts should be able to be flagged or ranked down by us users (this can be limited to even junior/ senior members for those worried of abuse in such a system, which is really not a threat at all [I explain in a post further down]). Please consider this improvement.
Thoughts?
Love it.
TechReport.com does a similar thing, and if you get five downvotes the post isn't automatically displayed.
Would streamline the site immensely, although I have a sneaky feeling something along these lines may well be implemented in the future.
This would cause so many problems too... All it would take is a few pissed off kids to downrank a helpful/brutally honest/ROM post into oblivion.
I think the way it is is fine, Although I wish they had a "Report as Trolling" button so we could send those ****ers into space somewhere...
posts like this
Not at all. If other users see a post getting downranked and they think it shouldn't be, they can just + it and if the overall community thinks the post shouldn't be downranked, enough people will + it to unhide the post. You sound like you have no faith in the community to do something right. It is such a large community that it will take a large number of posters to downrank something. And the general consensus about the post will eventually trump inappropriate downranks. It's so simple but difficult to explain. Also, this wouldn't require every post to be ranked. It's just there as an option.
Check out some androidandme posts for example. It works wonderfully on there.
IISiDeK1CKII said:
This would cause so many problems too... All it would take is a few pissed off kids to downrank a helpful/brutally honest/ROM post into oblivion.
I think the way it is is fine, Although I wish they had a "Report as Trolling" button so we could send those ****ers into space somewhere...
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Good point Sidekick (Hi btw ) but I do think this would occur much less frequently than the opposite (ranking down trollers and threadcrappers, myself included )
Also, 'sensible users' could easily just rank it back up.
^^ Exactly. It's already a system in place on many sites, and it's obviously used because it works.
I'm in for this. We all know XDA has grown too fast for moderation to keep up. Let the users help out.
This is definitely a really good idea, it would bring up the quality of posts especially on the development related threads. +1 from me
Aspeds2989 said:
Some forums on here have grown out of control with nonsense and useless posts.
The issue of lazy people who don't bother to read or search before posting something annoys a lot of people in this community.. and posting stickies at the top of every page titled "PLEASE READ FIRST" or anything similar just doesn't work. Users flaming one another doesn't help in correcting the problem either. The mods also have enough on their hands to have to worry about monitoring and deleting and moving wrongfully placed posts.
So, in an effort to better the experience for everyone, why not allow users to simply rate posts with a +/- like on many other sites. When a posts receives an overwhelming number of negatives, that post will be automatically hidden (check androidandme.com for example).
I think this will be a more effective and simple way for the community to keep tabs on itself. There is already a "Thanks" button to thank users for helping one another. I think it's unrealistic to not include a way for users to rank down unhelpful posts as well. The report button just unnecessarily pushes more work onto the mods.
Yes, this is a community where we are all here to help each other. In reality though, some users just don't care about anything except what they're here for and add nothing positive to the community. Those posts should be able to be ranked down by us users.
Thoughts?
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How about a [Solved Button]? For those Damn threads you read about a Million Replies to just to find out Help is No Longer Needed!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1178716
PMGRANDS said:
How about a [Solved Button]? For those Damn threads you read about a Million Replies to just to find out Help is No Longer Needed!
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There is actually another thread about this in here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1178716
Unksi said:
There is actually another thread about this in here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1178716
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I know... Sorry!
I actually Started the other thread!
Lol, just trying to Promote the Idea!
Yea.. I didn't think anyone would listen either :-! Oh, well. I tried.
Preach it! This system would be extremely helpful for everyone, especially since there is alot of cluttering going on.
Ehh.. I think writing an essay was enough for me. If people like this maybe they can just keep bumping it until it catches attention.
Aspeds2989 said:
Ehh.. I think writing an essay was enough for me. If people like this maybe they can just keep bumping it until it catches attention.
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I Hear that... I Feel the Same way as you do with my Idea! I actually thought I'd have a lot More comments than I have in my thread. But oh well... Lol!
meeeowww..
Potential for abuse = Huuuge...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face......
Realistic threat of abuse = Non-existent
Again, I refer to a site like Yahoo that uses this in their comments section that sees multiple times the amount of traffic than does this site and.. EDIT - nevermind
Aspeds2989 said:
Realistic threat of abuse = Non-existent
Again, I refer to a site like Yahoo that uses this in their comments section that sees multiple times the amount of traffic than does this site and.. EDIT - nevermind
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First off, I apologise, I did not pay attention and therefore my last post was irrelevant, allow me to respond properly....
Also, I hope that you didnt decide to edit your post because you noticed I was a mod, contrary to popular belief, users DO NOT receive bans/infractions for speaking their minds
Aspeds2989 said:
People who don't bother to read or search first before posting something are an annoyance for many in this community.. and posting stickies at the top of every page titled "PLEASE READ FIRST" or anything similar just doesn't work. Users then "flame" one another, and that doesn't help in correcting the problem either. Additionally, the mods shouldn't have to be monitoring posts like they would a kindergarten class.
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Click to collapse
Couldnt agree more....
Aspeds2989 said:
That is why allowing users to simply rate posts with a +/- like on many other sites, would improve the quality of posts on this forum greatly. When a posts receives an overwhelming number of negatives, that post will be automatically hidden so that other users are aware and may ignore it (check androidandme.com or any Yahoo news articles for examples). I think this will be a more effective and simple way for the community to keep tabs on itself. There is already a "Thanks" button to thank users for helping one another. I think it's unrealistic to not include a way for users to rank down unhelpful or even negative posts as well. It's like not wanting to acknowledge the fact that there are a lot of nonsense posts throughout the forums. And the report button just unnecessarily pushes more work onto the mods and the majority ignores it, so it's not effective.
Yes, this is a community where we are all here to help each other. In reality though, some users just don't care about anything except what they're here for and add nothing positive to the community, and end up cluttering the forums with questions that have been answered several times before, or posting in wrong sections, etc . Those posts should be able to be flagged or ranked down by the community. Please consider this improvement.
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Im not sure if this is possible with the version of VB that XDA uses. It probably is but then there is always the possibility that it may not work smoothly due to the existing amount of tweaks to the system that are already in place.
The problem you describe is due to the "gimme gimme gimme" mentality of the current userbase and we are currently taking steps to address this.
In the meantime please alert us to any such posts and we can remove duplicates and tag items as [SOLVED]. We dont mind doing it if people are willing to let us know that it needs to be done.
IISiDeK1CKII said:
This would cause so many problems too... All it would take is a few pissed off kids to downrank a helpful/brutally honest/ROM post into oblivion.
I think the way it is is fine, Although I wish they had a "Report as Trolling" button so we could send those ****ers into space somewhere...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It could be an issue, there will always be a certain "fanboi" mentality that would be inclined to abuse such a system. Some of the developers can be quite blunt (and rightly so) when it comes to people asking dumbass questions in a thread, I would hate to see for threads to be tarnished with downvotes (even if it is just one) all because some asshat wasnt happy about receiving a public dressing down.
There is already a Report button... Use it, we dont like trolls, they will be promptly escorted off the premises.
Aspeds2989 said:
Not at all. If other users see a post getting downranked and they think it shouldn't be, they can just + it and if the overall community thinks the post shouldn't be downranked, enough people will + it to unhide the post. You sound like you have no faith in the community to do something right. It is such a large community that it will take a large number of posters to downrank something. And the general consensus about the post will eventually trump inappropriate downranks. It's so simple but difficult to explain. Also, this wouldn't require every post to be ranked. It's just there as an option.
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As much as I hate to say it, I have to agree with the bold part at the moment.
I think that too much of the current userbase just want the easy option and want it now.
I think that we would need to adress the issue of discipline and improving the content of posts before we could implement a system like this, we are currently doing this but it will take time.
karnovaran said:
I'm in for this. We all know XDA has grown too fast for moderation to keep up. Let the users help out.
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If you want to help, drop us a PM when you see something that needs attention or use the report button.
I think its unfair to say that XDA has grown too fast for the mods to keep up, we have a highly dedicated and hard working team of many moderators who give up their free time to keep this place running. New moderator applications are being processed at the moment as well, so expect to see a few more jackbooted, goosestepping, uptight internet rent-a-cops strutting around sometime soon.
The problem lies not with the amount of users we have to deal with, it is the amount of stupidity and ignorance displayed by some (too many) of them.
I guess that is going to come off as a pretty negative post but I am not against such an idea, I just think there are more pressing matters to attend to first.
If you havent already done so I suggest you read the forum announcement by Svetius outlining the roadmap for the site.
/rant
I just really don't understand.. I have been reading though many different threads for a long time now (lurking cuz I dont have any issues to report on) but thats not the point of my post right now...
most people are helpful and respectful and thats what we fellow android lovers should be about, BUT then there are some people that are just straight up A-holes... and people in the android community wonder what is happening to XDA as a whole... just read through pretty much any thread and you can see it...
we are all here to HELP not FLAME!!! we are NO better than others cuz we know more or have more posts, big deal, we all started out at post count 1... alot of times I wonder how old the people on here really are? cuz they act like high schoolers... again, the majority is a good group of people but alot of people need to check themselves... i hate to say it(not really) but everyone is going to rootzwiki and android central for this reason alone... DISRESPECT... think about it.... seriously, just think about it.
If we, or anyone who honestly gives a sh** wants to restore this site to its former glory, then first start showing respect!!!
/END RANT
This thread is for voicing opinions/issues ONLY!!! Rumors will not be allowed and NO flaming tolerated!!! thanks
THIS. Over in Fascinate land, we're losing our best developers as well as some VERY helpful "average users" due to an apparent surge in all-around immaturity and stupidity. Thing is, in my 27 years, I have yet to find a community (online or not) bereft of the "our community's dying!" mentality.
Wherever you have people, you have politics; wherever you have politics, you have conflict. While it's frustrating to see highly valued contributors moving on, we can still follow (and learn from) their continuing efforts while remaining part of XDA ourselves. The Internet's handy like that, but it's a double-edged sword: the masses always follow the content they desire and migrate as needed. The devs are our content providers, but donations and "Thank You" buttons can only go so far to outweigh general Internet shenanigans / douchebaggery.
Basically, I am confident that the greater XDA community will continue to thrive as long as the vast majority of users continue to conduct themselves appropriately and remain intersted in the subject matter. There'll always be petty squabbling and "shocking" departures, but it takes more than that to truly ruin a community.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
Omnichron said:
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
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I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
ssethv said:
I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
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I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
MartyLK said:
I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
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Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
Jazz848 said:
Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
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That's very true. But there are some who are not children who are just as disrespectful as some of the younger ones.
ssethv said:
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
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Though it is possible such disrespectful people could have valuable info, I would rather not use it anyway. I'm funny that way. If someone disrespects me, nothing they do is liked. And I personally don't consider anything from them of use.
Thanks for the compliment. It was an addition when I started using the ignore list.
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
@orb3000
Thanks for the feedback... I never feed the fires of a flame... I am here for two reasons only... to get info (by READING or using the search tool) and to help other people out...
I am looking forward to "said" changes coming to the site
tek818 said:
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
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I somewhat agree with you... but we all started at post count 1, and were all noobs at one time... everyone that enters this site should be treated with dignity and respect. unless, the are undeserving of it, then as Marty said "block them"
but i understand exactly what you mean.. and it can be annoying at times. thats when i go smoke a cig or take a breath and break from the computer for a while.
orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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You are going on my block list. Sheesh, flaming on a thread about stopping the flames. Shame on you!
LOL.... i cant stop laughing, you just made my day a little better
ssethv said:
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
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The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
When you're the kind of person who does things like, say, read all 800 pages of a thread (and weeding out al the useless posts) so you're sure to be up to date, then someone waltzes in and asks a question for the 100th time... it's just incredibly frustrating. For every user that does that, there's one that has come in quietly and found the information on their own, which means the information CAN be found. Heck, I was able to find it. I know it's out there. I earned it and they want it for free. So how many lazy so-and-sos should I give it away to before I get a bit irate? Frustration is instantly doubled if the post is in a Development thread.
We're all standing on the shoulders of those that have gone before us. Problem is, some n00bs don't seem to care if they kick the guys under them in the nuts on the way up. It gets old.
But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
mrkite38 said:
The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
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But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
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well said, and I understand and agree with you... I am low on my post count on this site becuase I do use the search tool and EVERY singe question known to man has been asked and answered on this site, thats why I lurk and reseach, so I don't ask the same question again... I am on Android Central and know exactly what you mean. I was asked to be a moderator but turned it down cuz I don't always have the time... I mainly try to create guides/fixes/tutorials for the thunderbolt rooting roms and hacks section.
thanks to everyone for there thoughts and replies thus far, hopefully some more people will read and take to heart all of our opinions and issues
orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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I agree, especially the bold part. But the current system in place doesn't help us report any problem posts. I've been here since 2007 (in fact the only other older person in this thread is you) and just comparing what was back in 2007 to now, the problem is worse with hot tempered devs and or members in general. Like I said the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
And while I agree that the site is mostly created by developers for developers, everyone started on page 1. Everyone started asking questions. I understand that some devs (and members) will get frustrated after the same question is asked over and over. But there isn't any need to go off the deep end. The same goes for any member. In the time that one wastes making a post flaming the member, they could have reported it or better yet, provide the answer.
I've gone through threads with hundreds of pages to get an answer, but seeing so many with flames, arguments and nonsense forces those that rather not deal with it to ask the question even if it was asked before.
Now mind you, I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere. Its a fine line to cross. Now, what the solution or middle ground is, is anyone's guess. Hopefully the upcoming changes will be a start. But in the meantime, I for one will continue to report anyone that is out of line regardless of post count or title.
TS out
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere.
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Very true!!!
the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
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Hopefully this idea will be considered by the mods, its a good idea!!!
I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
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well put... thanks for contributing to this thread... I want this to get the wheels turning, I love this place and hate what is and has happened to it...
New report post system is on the way pretty soon
Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!! They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming! If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life. Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.
Let me begin by saying that I'm not attacking you or anyone else personally in this reply. My intention is to illustrate the other side of this argument. You see useless members starting flame wars; I see members protecting other users from potentially bricking their devices, teaching them manners, and upholding the sanctity of our developer forums.
petermg said:
Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!!
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I can assure you that the majority of the time, the person in which the flame is directed did not use the search feature. If they did, then common sense would dictate that you give the most amount of information relevant to your problem in order for someone else to help. We are not mind readers. If the majority of the problems that are posted about here could have been answered by the simple use of the search feature, and that person did not use it, well, it gets extraordinarily annoying after a time. In any case, if they did search, but didn't provide that bit of information in their post, then you can't get mad at us for not being mind readers.
They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming!
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This is an issue which is always in a bit of flux here. You have to understand that this isn't a support website. This website is dedicated to development. As such, developers on this website come first and foremost. If you or anyone else decide to clutter up the development forums, which are provided as a haven for our developers, with inane posts about simple things that could have been answered with the search feature or should have simply been posted in the proper forum, this too gets very old very quickly. I'm not condoning the flaming, but you have to accept that there is just cause for the disdain on this topic.
If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
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First off, as a mod, tracking down these people should not be your primary concern. There are far more pressing matters to attend to than this select group of people. Besides, pointing out the obvious isn't against the rules. Cross posting, however, is against the rules. The bottom line for the time-sensitive posts is that it is a risk you take by flashing a custom ROM, or doing something the manufacturer didn't intend. It comes back around to my point about us not being a support website. If someone has the spare time to get you an answer, then good for you, but it is never something that anyone should expect here.
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
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More likely than not, you simply need to change your search terms. If you aren't able to find your answer by searching, then make a post about it letting us know what exactly you searched for that garnered no results.
This does two things:
1) It narrows down our search criteria to exclude the terms you have already exhausted.
2) It shows us that you didn't come here just to leach an answer from the community, but also put in some effort at troubleshooting your own issue.
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life.
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This happens because most of the senior members here, including myself, feel that anyone with half a brain should be able to tell that questions go in the question and answers fora. They are labeled like that for a reason. If you didn't create something developmental, then there isn't a reason to post a thread in the development fora.
Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.
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Just because people know about Google doesn't mean they've actually used it. It is far more rare to come across a user asking a question who has done a search first than not.
The problem isn't so much about people asking questions. The problem lies a bit deeper now. Things used to be different here, indeed. I've personally been a registered XDA user for 6 years now. Things were more development focused back in the old WM days. It was normally only those of us who were looking for ways to get more out of our Pocket PCs that would frequent the forum. This mentality you are describing wasn't any different then from what it is today. The only difference is that now that Android has flooded the market that Apple made popular, we have a different set of users who are looking for a different type of development.
When I was a noob here, the flaming for not searching and doing the work myself was what eventually taught me how to find my own answers and not rely on others to support my device. I learned how to search, compose a proper post, and ask for help in a way that showed I wasn't trying to be a leach but had legitimately tried to solve my issue and failed.
The other big difference at the time was the age difference between WM users and the current generation of Android and iOS users. Back then, WM users were generally in their 20s or older. Most of the people using it, such as myself, needed it as a professional portable workstation. We had a more mature mentality towards our precious piece of technology. There were few times where you could get one of these Pocket PCs for under $400, so we valued what we had spent our money on, since insurance claims on them were all but nonexistent at the time. If we did something wrong, then there was a good chance that our expensive gadget would be just another paperweight. Since a fair portion of us needed these devices for a daily job, there was more caution thrown towards modding, flashing, or installing software.
Now, our devices are known as smartphones, and our users are mostly teenagers to whom their device was given by their parents. They don't have the same sense of worth towards their devices that used to be present since they didn't pay anything for it, or paid very little.
These users aren't taught that respect needs to be show if you want to receive it. I know it may seem as though they didn't say anything warranting a flame war, but by not showing other members of this community who donate their time to it enough respect to out line their problem and how they tried to solve it, all it sounds like to us is, "Here, I broke this. You need to fix it for me for free."
I hope that this has shown you the other side of the coin.
There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.
im also newbie,still learning to theme my rom,applying and make new mod from the tutorial that posted here in developement forum,i read all threads and posts to understand how to make it on my phone,not just asking for help,if you say you are tired reading all threads and posts to find an answer,what about the devs??are'nt they tired of answering same question over and over??say something with you mind open,just an advice
Sent from my LT18i
Some good points made on each side, but the fact is that this is NOT the regular use forum, it's for the "pro" people, so I think it's understandable when they get annoyed with some of the users asking seemingly simple questions.
zelendel said:
There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.
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xda is for developers and users.
Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
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No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
If you are in urgent need of help I would recommend trying IRC first, it's usually a lot easier to get real time feedback from people on there compared to a forum.
Some of the flaming may be unnecessary, but you have to realize that a large amount of time goes into a lot of the ROMs, kernels, etc. If you're nice enough to share it then you deserve to have a chance for everyone to see it. To have everyone bury their posts just so they can ask a question is inconsiderate, to say the least. Plus the clutter makes it harder for those looking for something to find it.
When I first started lurking here I only needed to see one question in the dev section for me to figure out that was the last place to post one. Sure I was cautious the first time or two I posted there, but you better believe I made sure it fit in with the other posts there before I posted it.
cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
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You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.
arrrghhh said:
You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.
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Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
conantroutman said:
Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
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Save your trolling for OT. I'll meet you there later. Lol
I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.
Archer said:
I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.
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I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.
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Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.
Archer said:
Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.
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Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.
cajunflavoredbob said:
Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.
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Hahaha nah mate - I wasn't referring to you. You're still a troll
This sort of thing happens all the time in automotive forums, oldsters get super cranky from answering the same questions over and over and new people get mad because they're told to use search literally every time they have a question valid or not. You're probably going to find that this is an issue no matter where you go on the internet.
The only time I've seen this mostly resolved is on a forum where moderation of user behavior is swift, brutal, and pretty impartial, and registration to the forum costs $10. Not likely to work on a forum such as this.
.
To compliment and support what cajunflavoredbob mentioned, please read my signature, you may now understand the nature of XDA:
This is and always will be a site for developers, pure and simple. Without them we are nothing, without them there would be no reason for XDA Developers to exist; we should never ever forget that. Without them this place would not be called XDA-Developers but something else, e.g Mobile Phone User Support Services For Ungrateful Nerds.
XDA is about developing and is for developers. Any user that recognises that will gain the most benefit from this site
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Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
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cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
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Jesus! A quick search would have brought up like 20+ threads just like this one. All of them with the same answer. You could have googled Asshats with tudes and XDA would have been your first answer. Read the rules! Post only when posted at! Never wear white after labor day, and some other stuff that is off topic!!!!
Here is something I don't understand. Yes this site might be for developers, but without users developers would server no purpose so that claim that this isn't for both users and developers seems counter productive. I myself haven't gotten around to making 10+ posts just to justify my rooting knowledge.
Yet the fact remains that without users the developers wouldn't really need to even have a website like this or it would be private which it's clearly not. How many bigger developers actually live off of their user donations?
Just my two cents, but I disagree.
This idea came about from a discussion, in the old requests to mods & admins thread, about dealing with new users across this site.
When I say dealing with new users, I mean how you respond to either posts where the user clearly hasn't searched, the user has done something they shouldn't have done etc etc.
Some users will simply report the members post and leave it down to the moderators to deal with. Some will respond with sarcasm/trolling/flaming. Some will simply give the person the correct information and mention nothing about what they've done wrong and others, like me, may feel the need to rant away at some users.
With me, if someone has done something they shouldn't have done, I won't ever report it. I'll only report a post if it's something serious like racism or illegal content. I'll generally give tell the person nicely what it is they've done wrong and what they should've done instead.
Obviously, doing so won't always work and the new member will continue doing wrong. I'll then PM the member and explain it to them fully away from public view.
However, if I come across a situation where a user has done wrong, and after being told so numerous times even by different people, that's when I'll step in and rant at them. My rants are never harsh and can never be mistaken for such. I simply tell them what they've done wrong and what they should've done, but I write it in such a way where it makes it seem angrier and makes the message sink in.
I'm interested to know what others opinions are on this and how you personally deal with such situations.
I already know that if moderators drop by in here, they'll probably say it's best to use the report feature but I'd like to hear everyone's opinions anyway
what i try to do is tell them as nicely as i can (not really that nice, but i don't flame) where they're wrong. i do realize mods are busy and i avoid reporting until i've given the new member at least a warning. i do report immediately when the issue is serious (ie: spamming in dev threads, warez, etc.).
Sent from my rooted tomato using xda app
I try to point out their mistakes. Then I explain (nicely) that xxx shouldn't have done yyyy. It doesn't hurt to be well-mannered. The member usually realizes his/her mistake and (tries to at least) never repeats it, hopefully.
I usually don't flame anyone.. I just reply them where they should have actually reported or posted it with link to that threads or forums.. and I ask them to post in proper section from next times.. usually using "please" or such words makes it better I feel.. they will feel we are trying to help them not to get in trouble in future and such.. and hopefully they will follow the advice in future..
But if I see same guy after been told does the same mistake.. then I report them..
Also I will report all wrong threads using PM with link to thread directly to our device mod as he is friendly and doesn't mind such PMs..
Sent from the MUST have app!
Great idea for a thread. I saw a very good post by FallenSpartan that really helped explain in the old mod requests thread, but I can't find it, must have been deleted. Anyways, the bottom line is, the person on the other side that computer could be anyone. For all you know, they could barely be able to speak English, or even have a mental disability . People need to be a little more understanding, trolling and flaming will only frustrate people and confuse them even more. A polite but pointed request to search next time and that the information is out there along with a link to it would be ideal in my opinion. The new users might not entirely grasp the concept of what's going on and how to easily search, and that information isn't exactly readily available. I know it is out there, but speaking from personal experience, I didn't go anywhere outside of my device's forum for quite some time after joining, not that I didn't know how to do those things. Point is, while the idea of searching and finding information for yourself is commonplace to you, it may not be to new users, and I don't think the importance of finding your own information is stressed enough for new members. While you may get angry and feel the need to rant and flame, it won't be nearly as effective at changing the way people act compared to a polite and firm request with the info attached, and possibly even what you did to find the information.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2
@cascabel & nitubhaskar - I used to find that reporting would work, especially considering that's what the mods always say is the best option rather than dealing with it yourself, but if I was to report all those who were report worthy, I'd never get anything else done lol.
Plus, the way I see it, if someone gets reported and a mod deals with it, there's generally no explanation as to why their post was wrong. Doing it in such a way that I do, it tells them what others tell them but seems to stick in their mind more because of the way it was written.
@sgt. meow - I guess with your forum being a fairly quiet forum, there's generally no need to do more than you do, as in such a forum people like that are really easy to notice and take action against if needed.
@prototype - I saw that post by FS aswell and I do agree with what he said. It could quite easily be a disabled person or someone with learning difficulties etc. but as of the time of the rants, I don't think about that because I just think about the fact they've constantly done the wrong thing.
Maybe I should put more consideration into things like that, but I just don't.
And while I do kind of agree that some people may be more open to listening if you actually help them out, as said above, in my experience ranting works.
It's not as if I rant at people all the time. That's truly not the case. The majority of the time I'll either help them in the thread by directing them to the right course of action or I'll PM them. It's only in certain situations that I feel a rant is actually necessary, whether others agree with that or not.
I've been approved by Snowflake. Jealous?
KidCarter93 said:
@cascabel & nitubhaskar -
Plus, the way I see it, if someone gets reported and a mod deals with it, there's generally no explanation as to why their post was wrong. Doing it in such a way that I do, it tells them what others tell them but seems to stick in their mind more because of the way it was written.
It's not as if I rant at people all the time. That's truly not the case. The majority of the time I'll either help them in the thread by directing them to the right course of action or I'll PM them.
I've been approved by Snowflake. Jealous?
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Actually you are right.. it helps them if we say what wrong they did and also give info what they asked in same post.. but I hope they won't feel that, even if he/she did made a wrong/ mistake they will get the quick info they need without any effort kinda feeling..
About mods not giving info on why they delete posts /lock threads.. well considering their busy work I guess its understandable..
But our forum mod The-Captain always kindly leaves a note for user as far as I have seen.. and I send PM only after I inform the newbie most of the times.. so both deeds are done.. lesson reached and reported
About your ranting...
Lol.. no way.. as far as I have seen your posts.. well your patience is pretty high.. ocassionally I have seen you going angry.. otherwise you are kind enough to give info and inform them of their mistakes.. well that's my observation.. excluding your device forum though
Sent from the MUST have app!
It's in the XDA rules to be nice to other members, whether new or old. So even if noob posts a warez content i never flame or troll him. Yeah, i do wanna give him a scolding but i don't. I'm gonna simply report it. Yes, i do sometimes post a reply or give him a PM, requesting him to remove the content with a link to the rules.
If a user dosen't search :-
Suppose a noob has bricked his phone, and creates a thread asking for help. In many cases of not searching, i advise users to search, but in these particular cases, i give 'em a link to the specific thread too.
If someone (racially) discriminates another user, i simply report him/her. Flaming him with sarcastic remarks might earn me a few thanks, (maybe) suppress the guy down, but it still isn't good for two reasons - one, as it's against the rules, two, as it proves that you're not a bit different from the user.
||I'm just a PM away for help||
How I respond depends on a new users thread, if it's to ask something particular then I'll either not reply or provide a link that's related or helps directly, if it's a new thread asking "how to root", how to unlock the boot loader", "how to install this ROM", "what's the best ROM" (there's at least 20+ threads asking that or similar in the Arc section in the last month or two) or asking about something in an existing thread that they could have just asked their question in, then I tend to be a bit more, how shall I say this, sarcastically direct :silly:, which some People take on the chin, and if they get it then I'll try to be more helpful, but you get the odd one or two who take umbrage then want to argue, needless to say I don't help that kind of user.
People joining here should be of a certain aptitude to begin imo and willing to learn, I'm much more inclined to help a user who has shown a bit of initiative but a lot are just sheer lazy and the amount of things that get asked that could be answered in the stickys amazes me.
But then you still get senior members who act like they've never been here before also, so I'm the same with them too. :angel:
KidCarter93 said:
@cascabel & nitubhaskar - I used to find that reporting would work, especially considering that's what the mods always say is the best option rather than dealing with it yourself, but if I was to report all those who were report worthy, I'd never get anything else done lol.
Plus, the way I see it, if someone gets reported and a mod deals with it, there's generally no explanation as to why their post was wrong. Doing it in such a way that I do, it tells them what others tell them but seems to stick in their mind more because of the way it was written.
@sgt. meow - I guess with your forum being a fairly quiet forum, there's generally no need to do more than you do, as in such a forum people like that are really easy to notice and take action against if needed.
@prototype - I saw that post by FS aswell and I do agree with what he said. It could quite easily be a disabled person or someone with learning difficulties etc. but as of the time of the rants, I don't think about that because I just think about the fact they've constantly done the wrong thing.
Maybe I should put more consideration into things like that, but I just don't.
And while I do kind of agree that some people may be more open to listening if you actually help them out, as said above, in my experience ranting works.
It's not as if I rant at people all the time. That's truly not the case. The majority of the time I'll either help them in the thread by directing them to the right course of action or I'll PM them. It's only in certain situations that I feel a rant is actually necessary, whether others agree with that or not.
I've been approved by Snowflake. Jealous?
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Your ranting works. That's because you've already told them what they're screwing up multiple times and just need to get it into their heads that they can't keep doing whatever they're doing. Ranting without giving any reasoning or advice isn't so effective.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2
I mention what they did wrong and just report it or send a pm to a moderator...Don't like making the situation worse
I got transformed into a potato while writing this post..
Well, I always try to understand the situation of the user, I mean on the SGSII forums,for example, I've recognize some users that always post questions instead of search even if the answer it's on the previous page, to them, I ask nicely to search but also I remember that me or some other user told him yet that please follow the rules and search before of post.
In the case of the total newbie users, mostly, I guide them to the thread, post or forum that they need but also, I mention that the rules are clear and need start to search before.
Sometimes I do the recomendation of put (in the next post that they do) where they search or how, if they do it yet, in that way we can give a better help (maybe it's not searching by the right terms or something like that)
I'm totally hate the flame to an user, when I see a post that could be the probably cause of a flame war I report it ASAP. And also, when I see someone flaming I ask nicely to stop because it's against the rules.
Sent from Nyarlathothep's SGSII..."Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"
When I first started, I advised them on the said thread itself, giving as much help as I could. I would wait for a response before PM-ing him/her about what they did and how to avoid getting into more trouble. Along the way, I realised that the more I tried to be nice to them, the more they would just step on me and act as if nothing has happened. The final straw was when this one guy, started hurling abuse at me for pointing out his mistake, vandalised my ROM thread and IRC channel. Soon after more and more hate PM's started to arise. Now I don't bother with wrong do-ers. I find them guilty, I report them. If it get's out of hand, I'll give a sarcastic yet hard hitting post that he/she will never forget. I know it's wrong and some of them will hate me till the rest of their days, but I find monkeys like these only listen to a nice warm infraction instead of kind words. Now I just focus on bug related problems in my forum. Common courtesy is eroding in new users everywhere. Sorry, but this is what more than a year in XDA has made me into . No, I will not change my ways
What I do when users keep posting ETAs/refuse to oblige when told politely - I usually post a image showing what I mean.e.g.facepalm for repeated ETA.it seems to work because-
1.the user seems embarrassed on seeing an actual expression of a person in the image e.g.facepalm.
2.more effective than a wall of post.
3.stands out, no need to read.
4.based on same principle of pie-diagrams, frequency polygons, bar diagrams - more attractive, more efficient.
"your lips move, but I cannot hear what you're saying..."
Bumping for mods/admins to get involved
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
KidCarter93 said:
Bumping for mods/admins to get involved
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
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I don't think they will.
||I'm just a PM away for help||
anasdcool71 said:
I don't think they will.
||I'm just a PM away for help||
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I don't think they will either, but it's worth a try.
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
And it seemed to work, that bump.
On topic:
Simply abide the rules. If you see someone breaking the rules (e.g. posting warez, flaming, spamming, etc) report it, using the "!" button on the post. The report will be picked up by a moderator and will be registered, in case we need to review afterwards. Of course, if it's a minor offence, a PM to a mod is ok too.
But how to deal with new users who just ask alot of questions and don't know our "netiquette"?
Try a calm approach and tell them to use the Search function ALOT.
Just remember one thing and live by it: We all were newbs at one time.
Good to see this discussion, shows people care.
Big multiquote coming in 3, 2, 1....
nitubhaskar said:
I usually don't flame anyone.. I just reply them where they should have actually reported or posted it with link to that threads or forums.. and I ask them to post in proper section from next times.. usually using "please" or such words makes it better I feel.. they will feel we are trying to help them not to get in trouble in future and such.. and hopefully they will follow the advice in future..
But if I see same guy after been told does the same mistake.. then I report them..
Also I will report all wrong threads using PM with link to thread directly to our device mod as he is friendly and doesn't mind such PMs..
Sent from the MUST have app!
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Using common courtesy will go leaps and bounds to remedy the situation. People sometimes do need a not-so-gentle nudging on how things work, but also a simple Please and Thanks can go much further. Otherwise if you flame them for posting something that has been asked just a few pages back, this place can get the mob mentality and all of a sudden, that one comment has turned into 4 pages of dribble that usually has to be cleaned by us and sometimes results in infractions for 1 or more members. Nobody wants that, right?
****The one thing that everyone should do is put on their way-back-hats and remember is when they were first tinkering with their phone and messed something up. Do you remember that Panic Mode your were in? :crying: Palms all sweaty, reading 5-6-7 pages at a time. Thinking that you just bricked your $600usd device. It sucks big time. I've been there many times (long ago )
nitubhaskar said:
About mods not giving info on why they delete posts /lock threads.. well considering their busy work I guess its understandable..
But our forum mod The-Captain always kindly leaves a note for user as far as I have seen.. and I send PM only after I inform the newbie most of the times.. so both deeds are done.. lesson reached and reported
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We generally try to leave a message as to why a thread was closed or moved. It isn't really a rule but again more of a common courtesy.
Also, The-Captain That guy is a class act. Nice, friendly and efficient. :good::good::good:
anasdcool71 said:
It's in the XDA rules to be nice to other members, whether new or old.
Suppose a noob has bricked his phone, and creates a thread asking for help. In many cases of not searching, i advise users to search, but in these particular cases, i give 'em a link to the specific thread too.
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Actually it isn't in the rules to be nice per se. But Rule #10 does say,
10. Help others if you can
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. Don't be shy.
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******
Giving a link is great and I do it all the time. But where does that cross the line of you doing their searching for them. I find if it is obscure enough, i will give a link, but the Department of Redundancy Department questions don't get such treatment, if you know what I mean.
loneagl said:
What I do when users keep posting ETAs/refuse to oblige when told politely - I usually post a image showing what I mean.e.g.facepalm for repeated ETA.it seems to work because-
1.the user seems embarrassed on seeing an actual expression of a person in the image e.g.facepalm.
2.more effective than a wall of post.
3.stands out, no need to read.
4.based on same principle of pie-diagrams, frequency polygons, bar diagrams - more attractive, more efficient.
"your lips move, but I cannot hear what you're saying..."
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I have done this more often than not. A simple picture can change the whole attitude of the thread. But not some stupid meme that has a personal attack or durogotory in any manner. I have one picture of a kid sticking a butter knife into a wall outlet and it say "nOOb" on it. Something as simple as that can change the tone and the OP wil make light of it and figure out where he went wrong. Sometimes not though and I have had it backfire on me a few times as well. But then in my next post, I would gently explain why I posted a picture and then guide them in the right direction. Some people tend to remember the visual, so the next time they want to start a thread, they may in-fact remember my picture and not the 4 pages of flaming they received.
KidCarter93 said:
I don't think they will either, but it's worth a try.
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
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Now you have an SM and FSM.
Edit::: One thing that I forgot to mention was the shear numbers we have here. At any given time there are between 35 & 50k users online. That's huge. If you Google anything about mobile/tablets, XDA is almost always at the top and at the very least top 5. That is some tough numbers we're dealing with.
That's really a big multi-quote! And quite a big explanation!!
||I'm just a PM away for help||
---------- Post added at 08:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 AM ----------
Actually it isn't in the rules to be nice per se.
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I suppose it is under rule #2.5. And also under rule #10, as you stated.
||I'm just a PM away for help||