Develop Bugs

Note to NOOBS. You're really annoying. READ!

Attention NOOBS. I'm becoming less patient with your posts that include whining and redundancy. This forum isn't here to provide you with all the comforts of your carrier. These roms and installing them is for people who are advanced users of WM. If you need your device for work and you're new to PocketPCs this isn't the place for you. These roms aren't for you so please stick to your carriers’ rom.
WM6 is new. SO NEW that Third-Party app developers haven't gotten all their fixes in. Our ROM chefs aren't responsible for those errors. Research and develop a fix, wait until someone develops a fix, or wait for the app developer...But before installing a rom you need to weigh whether or not it is worth it to loose some of your favorite apps. If you must have SPB plus and you read that people are having issues with it don't install the rom UNLESS you want to help find the fix. IF NOT...WAIT until the app developer upgrades their app. Don't install it and then post complaints and threads.
The chefs of these roms aren't here to help you setup your device and to solve all of your issues. If you have issues read, search and fix them. The research is part of the fun...finding fixes is part of the fun. Finding new ways to configure your device and setups is FUN. By asking first you're not participating in the best part of the forum.
As for fixing the "noob" issue...I think there is one pretty good solution.
I think the only way to fix such an issue is to either restrict new users from posting in the the WM6 forums for a period of time after joining. Hopefully you'll use that period of time to read. Because if you choose to install a rom and you know you can't ask a question you'll probably be more apt to read.
I'm not anti-noob. I was a noob once and I am still a noob in many ways. I also know that there are some good noobs in the forum. But I'm tired of taking the time to read the threads for critical information and coming across posts for how to install a new theme or where did the backlight on my keyboard go. That's where your user manual or the HTC website comes in. For Cingular people you have a great resource over @ the Cingular forums.
This is a community of like minded technical individuals. This is not HTC tech support or your carriers support. No one here owes you ANYTHING. You install a rom it's on you. If you can't take the responsibility then don't install the rom. It's pretty simple really.
I just had to get that off my chest. I'm sick and cranky but that only played a small role.
Again TIP YOUR CHEF!!!!! and donate to XDA. To all of you that make this a interactive vibrant technical-minded environment THANK YOU!
X (donning flame suit)

Helping is useless you just get bashed for it. Instead of putting useless programs that the "chef" uses they could spend that time using the carrier files located in the rom kitchen to help out users which takes all of what 3 minutes if that to recompile for a carrier. This would be much more productive then *****ing when someone tries to help by doing that. It's a joke suggesting someone help when they get nothing but grief and sarcasm when they do.

the time it takes to put "useless" apps in a rom is about 40 seconds.
99.9percent of the time is spent on optimizing the OS to ensure i runs efficiently and stable.
Carrier settings are a big no no as the ROMS being developed should be portable from one carrier to another. the perosn who installs the ROM should know what their carrier settings are etc.... not the ROM chefs.
EDIT: there is a fine line between "helping" (ie developing a fix and posting it in the official rom thread) as compared to re-releasing the hard work that went into optimizing wm6 etc and just adding one XML customization (what you did)
Also note, that recompiling a compressed ROM will cause issues to the people that have installed it. you must decompile the original OS.nb that hasnt been compressed.

jasjamming said:
the time it takes to put "useless" apps in a rom is about 40 seconds.
99.9percent of the time is spent on optimizing the OS to ensure i runs efficiently and stable.
Carrier settings are a big no no as the ROMS being developed should be portable from one carrier to another. the perosn who installs the ROM should know what their carrier settings are etc.... not the ROM chefs.
EDIT: there is a fine line between "helping" (ie developing a fix and posting it in the official rom thread) as compared to re-releasing the hard work that went into optimizing wm6 etc and just adding one XML customization (what you did)
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Yes, you have proved you dont give a **** seeing you post the files that dont work

tell WPbear that and the hundreds of people that got cingular working with that.
And just to remind you its not my job to ensure u set up your carrier. You found a fix, damn mate, post it in the thread.
Although this is an open source community in a way, it is still harmful to the developrs if their work is ripped off without courtesy. ASk first then post later, not post first and hope its ok!

this matter of discussion will stop right now. by the fact that your posts were deleted by mods is a clear sign that you push the boundaries of helping.

jasjamming said:
this matter of discussion will stop right now. by the fact that your posts were deleted by mods is a clear sign that you push the boundaries of helping.
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You must have missed the part where I could care less if they were or not? Who are you to say when this will or will not stop? I could care less if you have more pull here or not the forum is bullsit pulling favortism.
/story

xultar said:
Attention NOOBS. I'm becoming less patient with your posts that include whining and redundancy. This forum isn't here to provide you with all the comforts of your carrier. These roms and installing them is for people who are advanced users of WM. If you need your device for work and you're new to PocketPCs this isn't the place for you. These roms aren't for you so please stick to your carriers’ rom.
......
Again TIP YOUR CHEF!!!!! and donate to XDA. To all of you that make this a interactive vibrant technical-minded environment THANK YOU!
X (donning flame suit)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you that people shouldn't have complained too much on this and that regarding the ROMs cooked by our good fellows.
However I believe there is a better way pursuading people instead of yelling here, in this way you are not much different from those people.
Also you make sounds like it's a must to donate. Well I believe ROM chefs were doing this voluntarily without any intension to collect money. It would be nice for people to donate as a kind of support, but putting it this way may have make it sounds like there are financial motivations behind this ROM cooking thihg.
Anyway, well done CHEFs, keep it up.

AdamZhang said:
I agree with you that people shouldn't have complained too much on this and that regarding the ROMs cooked by our good fellows.
However I believe there is a better way pursuading people instead of yelling here, in this way you are not much different from those people.
Also you make sounds like it's a must to donate. Well I believe ROM chefs were doing this voluntarily without any intension to collect money. It would be nice for people to donate as a kind of support, but putting it this way may have make it sounds like there are financial motivations behind this ROM cooking thihg.
Anyway, well done CHEFs, keep it up.
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Click to collapse
no its not a must to donate... but its nice to be appreciated especially when the 'CHEF' has spend hours upon hours of his time and experience to benefit the community... honestly where would we be without these guys??? we would have locked handsets and be stuck with crappy carrier ROM's...

Hmmm
The noobs who post the ridiculous questions that have been answered many times before are (by their very nature) highly unlikely to read or care about this thread.....
Whilst I agree with some of the underlying points (read the wiki and the threads, use the search function etc) surely the more people who get interested in these devices, the wider they will be available and the better support etc from the carriers and htc will be available, meaning people here can spend more time developing rather than fixing bugs? The initial post just reads as if basically if you are not an experienced developer then you can just **** off. Not sure if (a) that is how it was meant or (b) that is the majority view.

Me thinks that xultar and custel need to grow up! Although you both evidently came into this as experts(sic), some others did not have your apparent vast wealth of experience to fall back on. To insult senior members, mods, and our chefs is unacceptable behavior! I, and I am sure others, are hoping to see you go!
The search functions can be a bit of a challenge....LOL, but insults and criticism are not needed.....Do us all a favor and just leave!
Okay.....there's my 4 cents worth..........
Later

NOOBS are ok i guess, but I like like BOOBS much more! We need more BOOBS around here! ;-)

cruiserman said:
NOOBS are ok i guess, but I like like BOOBS much more! We need more BOOBS around here! ;-)
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Even better NOOBS with BOOBS,

ElGato65 said:
Even better NOOBS with BOOBS,
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Click to collapse
... or boobs with noobs

ROFLMAO!!!

Same song, different forums. Yes, the noobs need to read the wiki and learn more, but we've all been there and need to remember what it was like getting yelled at in the forums. Yes, some of the "experts" think they're on a pedestal and can be huge jerks, but they've seen the same 10 questions about 1000 times and they help create noob resources like the wiki and the cool roms. Most of us are sitting in the middle just watching both sides screaming and thinking, "it's just a forum, wtf?"
I realize that the real issue began because of all the noobs bricking their phones trying to do things they don't fully understand and the animosity that comes from the ROM archive being removed as an indirect result. In case no one has noticed, this is not exactly an underground site and has become pretty popular with the increasing popularity of HTC products and the fine work that many of the contributors here have done. (Not to mention all the ppc sites that have linked to this one.)
The original post had some good points and I think was well-intended, however, Custel and Jasjamming decided to bring their personal beef with each other into it. If you two would like to argue with each other, feel free to use the private message function. Neither of you are helping this topic and only furthering the idea that a low post count means you're flame bait and a high post count means that you're allowed to tell people what they can and cannot post openly in the threads despite not being a mod. The moral here? We're all part of the same community here, so stop pissing on the neighbor's flowers and just tell him calmly that you're allergic while keeping in mind the other neighbors might like them.
As for the noobs destroying their phones with software they didn't understand and asking really simple over-asked questions, maybe we should make a quiz of basic information that pertains to each model and the information needed to do basic mods to them that all members have to answer with a certain percentage of success before allowing posts or access to download links (exluding a few basic forums). Each group that's active enough could make up their own pop quiz (Hermes, Trinity, etc...). All questions sourced from the wiki of course. Just a thought, since the only other suggestion seems to be to scream at the new guys and tell them to read (and search, which btw, really sucks on most forums since you have to know exactly what you're searching for to find anything useful in many cases).

having successfully upgraded several different models of HTC device to WinMo6 I know that there's very little risk from the process and a hell of a lot to gain.
Nobody here with a new-ish handset that's considering the upgrade is destitute and penniless, considering what the devices cost I'm beginning to wonder why donations to either the chefs or XDA devs isn't the norm...
Seriously, there are a lot of tight bastards around here, more than there are 'new' users who can't be arsed to use the search before opening the 30th thread asking for help on the exact same issue.

Post from a NOOB
Guys,
Let me give you a viewpoint from a NOOB. I would not call myself technically challenged nor lazy, but definitely new to this wonderful forum where some people who are way more cooler than me have found ways to help me make better use of my handheld than what I had stock.
Yes, I read the Hermes wiki checked through all (or the threads I thought were relevant) to make sure that this was something I wanted to (and could) do without bricking my expensive device. Even though I thought I read quite a lot, and did everything the wiki said, after I did something I could not verify whether what I did worked or not (like the time I SuperCID-ed my phone and did not know what the steps where to confirm it happened). So I ask. Some times people answer my questions, sometime they dont.
Yes, noobs need to know not to quote large message chunks, they need to read before they ask. I agree to all that. But some people say things like if you are not technical dont even bother to be here, that's insulting.
Though I read and re-read Xultar's initial post and I did not see anything there that really insulted me. I think he had a valid point that if you think you are faint of heart, please stick to your carrier's forum. These forums and this great site is for those adventurers (it just gives me an ego boost to think that way ;-)) who like to go where no man has gone before.
I have been here probably 2 weeks, and I feel like I found a place where I can belong. I just wish I were cool enough to really cook some ROMS. But I think I can get started in small ways.
Jasjamming, I understand your frustration when people take what you have taken great pains in doing and then repackage it, especially without your permission. No excuses for that. But it does not behoove for someone of your stature in this community to bad mouth people. I (and am sure more noobs like me) look up to people like you, kyphur and LVSW who can do things that most of us can just dream about. Just let go or I am sure that the moderators of this forum can remove those posts without much problem.
Sorry for the long rant, but I like this place. And felt I had to weigh in on this conversation.

CUSTEL said:
You must have missed the part where I could care less if they were or not? Who are you to say when this will or will not stop? I could care less if you have more pull here or not the forum is bullsit pulling favortism.
/story
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its not about pulling favoritism, its about respect... if you want to use someone else's work for your own then ask permission from the creator and give credit where credits due... the chefs work hard on what they do, kyphur, jasjamming, etc.. all of them.. spend countless hours developing cooked roms for everyone, donations or not.. If you dont like the rules of the community then there are other boards you can point your browser to. Most of the times when you ask permission then the chef will be more than happy to lend you a hand...
Now everyone play nice or find a different board.

shogunmark said:
its not about pulling favoritism, its about respect... if you want to use someone else's work for your own then ask permission from the creator and give credit where credits due... the chefs work hard on what they do, kyphur, jasjamming, etc.. all of them.. spend countless hours developing cooked roms for everyone, donations or not.. If you dont like the rules of the community then there are other boards you can point your browser to. Most of the times when you ask permission then the chef will be more than happy to lend you a hand...
Now everyone play nice or find a different board.
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Click to collapse
Please delete this thread. I'll send a PM to a Mod as well.
Thanks.

Respect to the Cookers

I would jus like to say RESPECT to all of the cookers who have worked hard to produce these ROM’s for us.
I have used Tom’s B&B 4.0 and.4.1 Mischle’s premium plus and 2.1, and also Fracoon’s 2.1 final. Tom’s is cosmetically brilliant, Meschle’s is very stable with excellent apps cooked in, and Fracoon’s is lightning fast and stable. I must say that these men have put in a tremendous amount of hours into producing these ROM’s. These ROM’s all work much better than that of O2, T-Mobile and all of the other providers.
What I especially like about these men is that they provide and excellent service and support right around the clock, in spite of the abuse for some complainers, who forget that these guys are giving freely of their time and resources. I have logged sometimes late into the night and these men are still providing support for us.
Please guy’s don’t forget that the majority of us appreciate the hard work that you do for us.

/signed!!!

absolutely correct! Thanks a lot to all of them, great work guys !

romac,
Thanks for saying exactly what I'm thinking. And you guys (Tom, Meschle, aje_fr, Fracoon and I know I'm far from having listed one hundredth of all the guys that are cooking or helping cookers), thanks for your hard work on making us such good ROMs. Your work is definitely better than the one made by all these providers we bought our P3300s from
The_Steph

-=RESPECT=-
""""For all cookers."""""
----------------------------
God bless you guys

A bear hug to all of them - trust me - my size is big enuf for all
Cooks are important no doubt....but then what would cooks do if the spices were missing....along with them - I think the ones who build the smaller particles (individual cabs, apps etc) deserve to be recognized also....
A bear hug (or jadu ki jhappi) to all of them - trust me - my size is big enuf for all !

Add Mine too
My admiration too for the excellent work.

Hear...Hear
+1000000...my greatest compliment for all of the cookers out there. You are the ones that make things run the way it should.
Best Regards,

i'll second that
All the cookers are talented guys who we all owe a great deal of respect......even Meshle who has been sent ot Coventry

Great job, guys.

RESPECT! great job

good staff
thanks you and respect peace and love Tom, Meschle, aje_fr, Fracoon and ME lol

Thanks to all the cooks

Agree 100%. You guys ROCK!!!

My Thanks goes out to all the peeps behind the scene, not to forget Pof, without his USPL program, we wouldn't be able to enjoy the aftermarket roms
Kudos to all!

Very Good Point!!!!
mikron15 said:
My Thanks goes out to all the peeps behind the scene, not to forget Pof, without his USPL program, we wouldn't be able to enjoy the aftermarket roms
Kudos to all!
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Click to collapse
Me too.....
I think it should be made known that the term cookers cover everyone who makes ROM and ALL developers created tools to install the ROM to our PPC and ALL developers that creates new programs/fixes....I hope that covers it this time....
Great job...please keep it up...thanks

/signed, what more is there to say!

The work you people do is amazing, I bought my Orbit and was saddened at the sloooow speed of the thing but you guys changed that! ROMS, stability, CABS, tips, help!
Thanks goes out to ALL of you!

They just made a great phone even better, a big respect to all cookers

Guys thankyou for respect
For myself i cooked these roms for you guys to enjoy - to have something bug free (well almost ) that you could use day in and day out

!!!!!!! Extra Extra Super Ultra New Wm6.1 Version !!!!!!!!!!!!

@Admins, Banish me if you will for this post, but i think it has to be said...
All rom cookers do a great job (i my self use a rom made from them for my Hermes).
But i wonder if it would be better to create much less frequent but also much more stable and bug-less roms.
I can not stop feeling i enter a super market when ever i visit this forum, where you have a multitude of the same products only with a different label, and company's try to sell them as innovative new ones.
Just an opinion.....

Obnoxious Comment
If you do no tlike it or if you are, somehow, displeased you have three options:
1. Simply don't use them
2. Look the other way
3. Leave the Forum
Greetings,

or just cook your own Ideal Rom

Kevlar-Source said:
If you do no tlike it or if you are, somehow, displeased you have three options:
1. Simply don't use them
2. Look the other way
3. Leave the Forum
Greetings,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed 101%

the whole reason they are frequent is to keep them bug free
or more stable cores etc.
at the end of the day if you dont like it as Kevlar source said - dont come to the forum..
and my 2cents - use an official rom and quit complaining!

Tech world changes every darn minute, no wonder why this forum changes every minute too! Just take what you want and leave the rest alone!! Makes everyone happy!!!!

Junk Thread!!
kingsizeriz said:
the whole reason they are frequent is to keep them bug free
or more stable cores etc.
at the end of the day if you dont like it as Kevlar source said - dont come to the forum..
and my 2cents - use an official rom and quit complaining!
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Totally Agree!

ai6908 said:
Tech world changes every darn minute, no wonder why this forum changes every minute too! Just take what you want and leave the rest alone!! Makes everyone happy!!!!
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+1
amen

... where is JR from Ewing Oil?

There's LEARNING and EXPERIENCES when you have some problem. And here WE are to solve THAT problem together. If you can't make any CONTRIBUTION for this Forum, then STOP complaining and START to be a "USER" and help the author (and other member) to make a better result for all of us.
The point is USE WHAT YOU LIKE but NEVER JUDGE what you don't like .
rgds,
Ermen

Please now that you see you made a or half point please change your title (advanced edit) . It's pity for all the real cookers. Thanks

i like the roms... and the most are stable enough.
i know this isn't the right section, but it had to be said:
i don't like the way the roms are presented in this forum.
for example the title of the topics. it's so chaotic. on every title is "update" but in real they are so old.
another example: there are topics sticky which are one year old. and nobody needs them.
correct me if i'm wrong that nobody needs them. for example again: the rom kitchen of bepe. the images are also down of that topic.
but i like the roms and i am happy that this great forum exists XD but this forum could be better, if the topics were more coherent.
*sry for bad english*

I happen to like seeing all of the new rom postings. It's a great way to see what new software is out there, along with I cannot cook a rom if my life depened on it. The heck with this guy..
Great job to all rom chefs! Thanks for all the hard work!

Yes, some of these old stickys have out lived their usefullness and just take up space. They need to be reviewed & removed periodically by someone!

Asxetos said:
... you have a multitude of the same products only with a different label, and company's try to sell them as innovative new ones.
Just an opinion.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the biggest problem with your statement is that you're expecting something with no cost (read: free) as if you do with commercial products.
it's like expecting linux community (or open source community for that matter) that they can come up with an absolute software suite like Microsoft's, sure you get 1 option to choose from and you can expect quality and such, the thing is that Gates makes billions off of it while the chefs here don't.

I gotta ask, do you expect someone to make this "PERFECT" rom, or just pull it out of their bum? Thats why this site exists, to try to refine and make the perfect rom. Impossible mission if you ask me as MY perfect rom WON'T be YOURS...
All feed back given goes into making a stable and fast rom BUT that takes time. By the time someone has cooked the "perfect" rom, another core has come along that makes the rom just cooked look bad. Why do you think the chefs keep cooking???
Thank you to all the rom chefs out there.... Love your work.

I'll probably catch H-e-double hockey-stick for saying this, but I half way agree with the post... I definitely appreciate the hard work the chef's put in, and realize that the majority of them never see a dime for their efforts. But it does seem, at times, that some of them are just putting out ROMs as fast as they can with little or no attempt to thoroughly test the stability of what they're about to imply is ok to put on our (expensive) phones. Again - I understand this is time consuming and they cannot possibly test all the combinations of hardware and software configurations, but some ROMs have seemed so instable as to imply they weren't tested *at all*. I think a certain few chefs (eg VP3g) go the extra mile to make sure what they put on here is worthy of this forum.
Having said that, the chefs definitely do us all a great service and I thank them all. I'm a proud holder of an 8525 with a DVH ROM and, as a software developer for the government I'm sure I could cook a ROM... but the point is - I don't have the time or desire... These chefs sacrifice their time so that people like us can (better) enjoy our phones...
That's just my 2c worth.

lol nobody can make a bugless rom.. if you dont like cooked roms use an official one and see how you like that, half the speed, zero features, resets every day, doesnt even work really.

I can't see how topics like this keep getting everyone's attention. I mean the topic's title is one thing and the content is another. People who do nothing and expect/demand everything should not get this kind of attention at all. This topic should be locked asap.
"In Japan, you'd be dead" -- Jet Li (Lethal Weapon 4)

Asxetos said:
@Admins, Banish me if you will for this post, but i think it has to be said...
All rom cookers do a great job (i my self use a rom made from them for my Hermes).
But i wonder if it would be better to create much less frequent but also much more stable and bug-less roms.
I can not stop feeling i enter a super market when ever i visit this forum, where you have a multitude of the same products only with a different label, and company's try to sell them as innovative new ones.
Just an opinion.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really don't understand this attitude. What is the name of this forum? XDA-DEVELOPERS. What does that mean? That means this is a developers forum. And that implies that everything in this forum is in development. All the roms you find here are created by developers for developers. We are the parasites. We are leeching on whatever we find. Most of the time, we don't know what we are leeching on. That is because we are not DEVELOPERS. But that doesn't mean we can teach the DEVELOPERS how to behave. Don't you think that it would be very very cruel to come here, leech on their products and then teach them how to work?

[Q] Locked roms, unable to dump, do the chefs hide something?

Why is allmost every rom on this forum dumplocked?
Do people have something to hide, or is it something else?
Is it mayb that people don't want to share things anymore(the main part where xda thrives on)?
Do the chefs who learned from copying and examining others work have some kind of arrogance, somekind of thought that noone may copy their work?
I personally find this a crappy way of work here on xda.
Any other thoughts on this?
Gr. Bram

Try with my ROMs, nothing is locked.

bram_smulders said:
Why is every rom on this forum dumplocked?
Do people have something to hide, or is it something else?
Is it mayb that people don't want to share things anymore(the main part where xda thrives on)?
Do the chefs who learned from copying and examining others work have some kind of arrogance, somekind of thought that noone may copy their work?
I personally find this a crappy way of work here on xda.
Any other thoughts on this?
Gr. Bram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is thin ice you stepped on!
I am a retired Chef myself. I always protected my ROMs from being dumped. The main reason is that packages and tweaks mainly added through the rgus are the result of many many hours of research, countless flashes, testing and work.
Packages are all over the place, so are the cabs.
The majority of tweaks can be found anywhere.
But it's just unfair when a Chef collects everthing he needs for his kitchen throughout time and someone who is just beginning to cook dumps it, replaces a few packages and voila, a new ROM from a new Chef, as good as the old dumped ROM.
It's not about hiding, it's about somehow protecting endless hours of work that just don't pay back.
I know my ROMs were intended for my own use, but somehow decided to share them, I believe most Chefs around here pretty much do the same with their work, so it is a huge favor this sharing.

bram_smulders said:
Why is every rom on this forum dumplocked?
Do people have something to hide, or is it something else?
Is it mayb that people don't want to share things anymore(the main part where xda thrives on)?
Do the chefs who learned from copying and examining others work have some kind of arrogance, somekind of thought that noone may copy their work?
I personally find this a crappy way of work here on xda.
Any other thoughts on this?
Gr. Bram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also find it very strange.... the only reasoning I can think is people don´t want their working copied but hey I completely agree with you it´s a very strange way to work as, certainly for me, this forum has always been about sharing. Sharing knowledge, information, ideas, ROMs, creativity and most of all a passion for these devices... it´s a real shame.
Thankfully though, in my experience, most the experienced chefs here are very willing to help out to us aspiring new chefs with pointers and files we need to build a decent kitchen.
I cook for myself really but ended up releasing a few of my ROMs when I have a bit more time to support them but I must admit I´m not bothered about people re-cooking them if they want. I´m just happy that the peolpe here get the most out of their Diamond.

tnyynt said:
This is thin ice you stepped on!
I am a retired Chef myself. I always protected my ROMs from being dumped. The main reason is that packages and tweaks mainly added through the rgus are the result of many many hours of research, countless flashes, testing and work.
Packages are all over the place, so are the cabs.
The majority of tweaks can be found anywhere.
But it's just unfair when a Chef collects everthing he needs for his kitchen throughout time and someone who is just beginning to cook dumps it, replaces a few packages and voila, a new ROM from a new Chef, as good as the old dumped ROM.
It's not about hiding, it's about somehow protecting endless hours of work that just don't pay back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Allright i can live with that, BUT, what are we doing right here?
Microsoft and HTC engineers also spend many hours on their precious work, pushing the limits of WM. If we all must respect hard work, then we should not dump roms of those guys either.
I feel strongly that this is an open community an that requires that everything is open, i've cooked many roms but never thought about protecting it.
I'ts MY hobby, and if i want to implement(find) tweaks and enhancements it's for MY satisfaction. I dont care if someone from here dumps my rom and steals all of MY found tweaks.
Let him learn about rom cooking by inspecting my rom, i dont give a ****, in this way the community gets stronger.
And by the way, if the chefs have nothing to hide and share their tweaks on the forum, why not open their roms?
Gr. bram
I'm not flaming that chefs, but i'm posting out my opinion about this.
I can totally get into the thought of those guys.

christonge said:
I also find it very strange.... the only reasoning I can think is people don´t want their working copied but hey I completely agree with you it´s a very strange way to work as, certainly for me, this forum has always been about sharing. Sharing knowledge, information, ideas, ROMs, creativity and most of all a passion for these devices... it´s a real shame.
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Sharing is one, stealilng and taking credit for someone else's work is another thing. And look at this beyond the Forum. Do you have any idea how many places host, discuss, etc. the ROMs made here? I don't want to get into details, but this is how it works. ROMs published are downloaded and posted on some other forums, where some other cooks try to do something with them. When they manage, they've got themselves a new ROM with upgoing rep and paypal ballance! You should really look into this. I know my ROMs were subject to such on some other forums.
But if this is still not enough for you, there is always an option to start learning how to cook, dump an Official ROM, port it (if it's the case), make a baserom, collect all your packages, collect and edit all your registries, skin till you drop, test for a week or so, build and release without protection.

bram_smulders said:
Microsoft and HTC engineers also spend many hours on their precious work, pushing the limits of WM.
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Yes, maybe because dumping and cooking is grey field towards illegal. There's a really thin line between legal and illegal, but that's some other stuff I don't want to get into.

tnyynt said:
Sharing is one, stealilng and taking credit for someone else's work is another thing. And look at this beyond the Forum. Do you have any idea how many places host, discuss, etc. the ROMs made here? I don't want to get into details, but this is how it works. ROMs published are downloaded and posted on some other forums, where some other cooks try to do something with them. When they manage, they've got themselves a new ROM with upgoing rep and paypal ballance! You should really look into this. I know my ROMs were subject to such on some other forums.
But if this is still not enough for you, there is always an option to start learning how to cook, dump an Official ROM, port it (if it's the case), make a baserom, collect all your packages, collect and edit all your registries, skin till you drop, test for a week or so, build and release without protection.
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I have spent days, weeks and perhaps months (to scared to add it up!!) reading and learning how to cook so I can see your point. In fact I have also been through this very experience here where somebody has posted my work on another forum and yes it was annoying but I think what Bram was trying to point out that as time goes by things are becoming more and more "closed". Perhaps due to the number of users now?? I´m not sure but it´s a debate that will always be here

christonge said:
I have spent days, weeks and perhaps months (to scared to add it up!!) reading and learning how to cook so I can see your point. In fact I have also been through this very experience here where somebody has posted my work on another forum and yes it was annoying but I think what Bram was trying to point out that as time goes by things are becoming more and more "closed". Perhaps due to the number of users now?? I´m not sure but it´s a debate that will always be here
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It's not user quantity, it's user quality. You can never stop a user to register and you can never check his/her intentions when joining. Private Messaging always works and I don't think anyone contacted for help ever refused on this Forum (I'm referring to Chefs). I've been helped by stranger fellow XDA Chefs and I helped stranger Chefs myself. But won't go for putting everything on a silver tray to some second hand B forum Chef.
As for XDA DEVELOPERS, here's a hint of what it is: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45

christonge said:
In fact I have also been through this very experience here where somebody has posted my work on another forum and yes it was annoying but I think what Bram was trying to point out that as time goes by things are becoming more and more "closed". Perhaps due to the number of users now??
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This experience is very nasty, but you cant entirely stop it. Someone flash your rom, the dump it the "device way", he has an exact copy of it.
Thats in a way true how i feel, i have a feeling lately that this forum is becoming closed, everyone keeping stuff for their selves. Wich in a way i can understand that(all the hard work etc.) but then the "openness" of this forum is slightly dripping away.
In my time in the wizard forums there was no such thing, every cook tried to help the other out. If a tweak(or something else new) was found, they posted it right away. Or cooked it into rom, and encoraged others to take it from them.
Lately in the diamond furoms i have the feeling some people don't want to share anymore, just the credit of a great rom.
Wich they have to know and do theirselves, but i'm against such a way of work here.
tnyynt said:
Yes, maybe because dumping and cooking is grey field towards illegal. There's a really thin line between legal and illegal, but that's some other stuff I don't want to get into.
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I was't talking about illegal stuff here(becouse all we do is illegal) but about the morale to steal from someone.
tnyynt said:
But won't go for putting everything on a silver tray to some second hand B forum Chef.
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I totally understand that, but i feel strongly against it(my opinion)
gr. bram

tnyynt said:
It's not user quantity, it's user quality. You can never stop a user to register and you can never check his/her intentions when joining. Private Messaging always works and I don't think anyone contacted for help ever refused on this Forum (I'm referring to Chefs). I've been helped by stranger fellow XDA Chefs and I helped stranger Chefs myself. But won't go for putting everything on a silver tray to some second hand B forum Chef.
As for XDA DEVELOPERS, here's a hint of what it is: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
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Great post by kyphur.... and I agree. As I posted above I have been helped by many great chefs here since I start with my Hermes, then with my Kaiser and Polaris and now here on Diamond and most of it has been done by PM. As for giving everything on a silver tray... well I think it´s a personal choice and I personally don´t think to much about it when I have posted my ROMs but hey maybe I have a different take on things
All I know is I am personally very very gratefull to many people who contribute to this forum and I have mentioned most of them in the past when posting my ROMs but as I said before this debate will always run.....

Chefs do it mainly to protect there investment in time. They have no reason to give you the ROMs, so why should you complain when they do things?
I personally do not do anything to protect my ROM, other than grouping files under one dsm to save space - the overheads for DSM files are quite big - rather than to stop people dumping the ROMs.
Why should we as chefs give you anything?

l3v5y said:
Chefs do it mainly to protect there investment in time. They have no reason to give you the ROMs, so why should you complain when they do things?
I personally do not do anything to protect my ROM, other than grouping files under one dsm to save space - the overheads for DSM files are quite big - rather than to stop people dumping the ROMs.
Why should we as chefs give you anything?
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I dont say they haven got the right close roms, I just dont feel like that, and wanted to know if there are some others who think the same.
For me this is an open forum so all what i do is open, if other decide otherwise, let that be, i dont mind.
My point is that i feel that the forum is getting more to a closed forum rather that coming together, and just wanted to know if i was the only one.
Mayb is misformed my statement in the first post.
If this thread is non constructive, please close and/or delete it.
gr. bram
ps. i dont intend to flame anyone, i respect everyones work & decisions!

Protection of investment of time is a good reason.
Another good reason to protect ROMs is:
Stop the wild-groth of ROM-releases.
Every wanabee chef nowadays uses a simple kitchen, trows in a already cooked ROM.
Changes a few packages and a splashscreen, and trows it on the forum as something new.
I don't call that cooking, that is trowing something into the microwave (after putting ketchup on it)!
Also removing all RGU's and replacing DSM files by a single one does improve the device!.
Your personal tweaks aren't directly visible (like it would in a rgu).
Your own privatly build packages are more difficult to steal/recycle by a third party.
Also Nofi,
Regards,
EqX

the-equinoxe said:
Protection of investment of time is a good reason.
Another good reason to protect ROMs is:
Stop the wild-groth of ROM-releases.
Every wanabee chef nowadays uses a simple kitchen, trows in a already cooked ROM.
Changes a few packages and a splashscreen, and trows it on the forum as something new.
I don't call that cooking, that is trowing something into the microwave (after putting ketchup on it)!
Also removing all RGU's and replacing DSM files by a single one does improve the device!.
Your personal tweaks aren't directly visible (like it would in a rgu).
Your own privatly build packages are more difficult to steal/recycle by a third party.
Also Nofi,
Regards,
EqX
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Fully Agree also some roms are targets for other people who waits to steal your work and also cover it and and re-build it up its thiers.
I do protect my roms for more than one reasons which I cant say, but time is also one big factor to do with it.
bram totally respect u as a chef, but things have change so much now since XDA have expanded in worldwide website and also other forums lark on this site to steal other works

Ready meals are nice though!

l3v5y said:
Ready meals are nice though!
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and I suppose even better when they´re spoon feed!
I see all your points and respect them completely.... we are all here for similar reasons and that´s the beauty of this forum. I agree with dutty that things have changed a lot, even in the time I´ve been here.

duttythroy said:
Fully Agree also some roms are targets for other people who waits to steal your work and also cover it and and re-build it up its thiers.
I do protect my roms for more than one reasons which I cant say, but time is also one big factor to do with it.
bram totally respect u as a chef, but things have change so much now since XDA have expanded in worldwide website and also other forums lark on this site to steal other works
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100% agree,
I believe we are all willing to share, but one bad apple will mess it up for everyone.

duttythroy said:
Fully Agree also some roms are targets for other people who waits to steal your work and also cover it and and re-build it up its thiers.
I do protect my roms for more than one reasons which I cant say, but time is also one big factor to do with it.
bram totally respect u as a chef, but things have change so much now since XDA have expanded in worldwide website and also other forums lark on this site to steal other works
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Exactly my thoughts!

I'm not part of the Diamond community... yet... but I'd like to give opinion on the subject.
I've been cooking for a while for trinity users, and as many chefs here, I've spent countless hours analyzing official ROMs, and even other chefs ROMs, reading, searching, testing, to better understand the whole cooking process, to improve myself.
Along the way I've had many questions, problems, and so on, and so on... Mainly I was fortunate enough to have had a great teacher and friend, and also the basis to build my work on.
This happened in a time when it all was a passion, when it was about making the ROMs better(not just customize them but also to improve them in performance and/or stability), but now?... Well, now it's more about having the best ROM, with more downloads... and ultimately more donations...
I have nothing against chefs, or developers, or whatever, being rewarded for their work, hell, I have a paypal link too(even though I don't really advertise it, it just sits there on my signature)!!
I guess the trigger for all this, was some chefs, making other chefs work their own without asking in the first place. If this really was sharing community, why not ask, instead of "stealing"? In the end it becomes a sort of a cooker's war, to see which one has the best security methods implemented on their ROM, and which one can get through that same security, so they can take instead of asking once again...
As l3v5y said, I also remove the RGUs and patch the DSM into one, for performance purposes, as colateral I get some protection against ROM package rebuilding, but I can only go so far. I have no programing skills whatsoever, so I couldn't protect my ROMs further, even if I wanted!!
I tottaly agree that with the growth in the number of members, comes a growth in new chefs, or chef wannabies, and if all is given away that easily, the forums will end up flooded with new ROMs. But on the other hand, I'm in favor of sharing. I'm just sad this is getting to a point where it get harder and harder to get some things that used to be available to everyone....
I could go on, but this is getting rather long... Sorry everyone!

Why doesn`t anyone do something?they all want donation!!!..

Hello!I`m a memmber of this forum for some time and now for about 2 weeks i changed my device and go to other part of this forum but i noticed that almost all power users from here are waiting for donations to make something once all of this wasn`t like this what happend with that days?

I'm not power user or cooker but a donation isn't a must: you can do or not do it.
They spend a lot of time to do their works and if I want to donate some € for a good work I do it else I can use the SW without problem and w/o donation.
D'rath

If people are not releasing something because they will only do so if they get donations they are violating Forum Rule 8. Feel free to report them.
See rules here. http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=256
FORUM RULES said:
8. Donations.
We appreciate all donations to xda-developers.com, it keeps our forum online and well maintained. As a user you're allowed to ask for donations in your signature as a thank you for your hard work. However donations up front are not allowed, this forum is about sharing, not about getting paid to do something, that's what your job is for.
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D'rath said:
I'm not power user or cooker but a donation isn't a must: you can do or not do it.
They spend a lot of time to do their works and if I want to donate some € for a good work I do it else I can use the SW without problem and w/o donation.
D'rath
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Most of them make roms because they like to do it and they want to, that's it!
It's wrong to put in BIG words in the signature and everywhere else, as if the roms that they do, are really, really, really hard work.
What hard work? lol! Nobody force them to make roms...

rogeriopcf said:
Most of them make roms because they like to do it and they want to, that's it!
It's wrong to put in BIG words in the signature and everywhere else, as if the roms that they do, are really, really, really hard work.
What hard work? lol! Nobody force them to make roms...
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=539407

As a modder I put in lots of time into my work. I release about 4-8 ROM variations a week. I also release some other minor stuff, packages for chefs and a few other things. There are plenty of sleepless nights for me. A little something in return is always nice.
Here is a little story and how end users can be greedy too.
A couple of weeks ago I had to sell my device for finacial reasons. I posted in my ROM thread that I will not be releasing a new ROM because I had to sell my phone. I came back online around 3 hours later to find about 140 private messages in my inbox. All but 3 asked for my ROM without a thanks and/or sorry to hear about your current situation. That got me very mad. So I changed how my ROMs were distributed.
All of my Lite and Super Lite ROMs, ROMs with no TF3D 2.1 or 2.5 or for Public use. All my TF3D2.X are for private users. To be a private user you have to be an active member of the community who comes in here and tries to help others. You are not a user who just downloads stuff, does not say thanks and then always complains about a few bugs. Or if you prefer you can make a donation. Lets say you would rather not bother helping others, don't have the time too or just want to say thanks to the modder with a little donation.
For myself I do not use TF3D and I take the time out to make something I do not use for myself for the end user so what is wrong with getting a little something in return for my time?
Every other thing I do on XDA is up for grabs for everyone...

rogeriopcf said:
Most of them make roms because they like to do it and they want to, that's it!
It's wrong to put in BIG words in the signature and everywhere else, as if the roms that they do, are really, really, really hard work.
What hard work? lol! Nobody force them to make roms...
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Have you ever tried to make a ROM? To say it is not hard work is just plain stupid.
I do agree with you with the big buttons and what not...
You should be thankful that people on here like make ROMs. Have any idea what it would cost you to walk into a phone store and have something like this done, that's if even they know how too?
If it is not hard work then give it a shot and see how easy it is.
Some people are just so ungrateful...
I am glad that you don't have a Rhodium...

Since I shared a bad story here is a...
very amazing story!!!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4545746&postcount=771

Shocked. But if it's a donation...
I'm a chef, but I don't ask for any donation for releasing my ROMs.
I develop my ROMs for the people who wants it, and I'm happy to help you all to have a good OS and functional PDA.
However, my "Donation" link is always in my signature because if someone would like to help my hard work with his donation I'll be happy to accept it... but I'll continue to release my ROMs even if noone donates.
As for now, noone donated.. and I released a lot of versions of my ROMs, and I don't ask for any obligatory donation ^^
Chefs here doesn't ask for anything... donation is only for "giving" a simple "Thank You!" for the hard work we are doing!
Sincerely,
kholk.

At0mAng said:
very amazing story!!!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4545746&postcount=771
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That is very generous of the user. Even if he does not follow through with the device, that must be a great compliment to receive.

Possible solution
I don't know how xda feels about this but could they place something akin to google adwords into the topic so that the user who made the topic could get a piece of the pie. Of course xda would get a cut too. =p