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I wouldn't say I love Microsoft, but they do have the market for computer software and I do have quite a bit of their hardware, the MS stearing wheel been a fine bit of kit.
I have used Windows operating systems since Windows 3.1 to the present XP (Vista any day now). I have been using a PocketPC for the past few years with software ranging from Windows Mobile 2003 to the 2005 version, all under licence from the vendor I bourght the phone from.
Whilst the pre packaged software on my PDA is all good and well I have had a much more productive and fun time using my device since I stumbled across XDA-developers.com website, usefull information, people who are in the same boat and development on the software to only increese the usabillity of it.
This is the reason I started this thread.
Everyone that own's a PocketPC/PDA has bourght it. This means that once the device has been bourght you have paid for the Microsoft licence of the installed software.
When you buy a copy of Windows for your home or business computer you have a few differnet ways you can install the software, there are lots of third party bits of software you can install, so you can customize the way your computer is setup.
Microsoft are gonna make xda-developers.com to take down the files that are posted on this site.
I believe that as we have all payed to have the software on our PDA's we have the right to have any version that we want, modified or not. Yes, we shouldn't have versions that haven't been "officially" realeased on our PDA's but even with those there are people who have got the ROM's and made them better.
Microsoft should be quite gratefull that there are people out there to make a bit of software they have developed even better, why should it be any skin of there noses for a bit of software they have allready been paid for!!!
Microsoft can't stop new ROM's been realesed on the internet, if Vista is on all the torrent sites there's no way they are gonna stop a new Windows Mobile ROM appearing.
To conclude...Microsoft should know a good thing when they see it. XDA-Developers.com is that!
Well laid out. I totally agree with you. What M$ doesn't understand is that more roms will start to fly around on un-monitored sites. These sites will lack the support provided at xda-developers and customer complains will sky rocket through the roofs.
Like jack bauer say... "Damn it M$", we need our own Chloe O'brian (a mean betatester)... YOU GUYS!
LONG LIFE XDA-DEVELOPERS!!!
You are right !
M$ have a basic problem in their buisness concept ... not letting people have the freedom that they need and want to upgrade and evolve their OS
And that's why (i believe) people are starting to switch to other OS like OSX or linux.
I am very much afraid that it will also start happening in our mobile decives with symbian and others ...
because although WM5 (and 6) tend to .... crash, hang, or just not work, in my opinion it is the most versitile OS there is .... plenty of programs for it ... and plenty of programmers making new stuff as they go, and that's without including ROM maker which are a whole highly respectable group on their own.
I believe that it is our decision to upgrade, as well as our legal right(for the OS' price is no doubt included in the device's retail price) BUT people must have no right to complain after screwing with their device or worse (bricking it).
And in that respect i agree with M$.
So i propose the middle ground, asking M$ if writing a diclaimer here on XDA that users must go through before downloading and/or upgrading their device will do, and hope that they accept.
if not ...
find a legal loophole, because I for one am not willing to give XDA up just yet !
sorry if i bored you guys, but that's just the way i feel about this whole thing.
UPGRADE ON !
heh.
I have never been one to defend Microsoft, but from reading their letter carefully, it would appear it has more to do with the mobile operators putting pressure on them. Two things I would like to say in response to this.
1) If the mobile operators and manufacturers would employ developers who were even half as quick and resourceful as the developers here, they might actually have sold me a phone that worked properly to start with, unlike my SPV M5000 which was crashing on a daily basis, even with their latest ROM, until I updated it with a ROM from this forum. Had I not been saved by this this amazing forum, I would have demanded a refund, Orange would have lost money and I would have moved to a different company.
2) People who update their phones with ROM images from this forum should know better than to seek support from their mobile operator after having updated their ROM. They should have known that they would not like this.
Now we all have to suffer.
They'll have to face't!
columbo said:
I have never been one to defend Microsoft, but from reading their letter carefully, it would appear it has more to do with the mobile operators putting pressure on them. Two things I would like to say in response to this.
1) If the mobile operators and manufacturers would employ developers who were even half as quick and resourceful as the developers here, they might actually have sold me a phone that worked properly to start with, unlike my SPV M5000 which was crashing on a daily basis, even with their latest ROM, until I updated it with a ROM from this forum. Had I not been saved by this this amazing forum, I would have demanded a refund, Orange would have lost money and I would have moved to a different company.
2) People who update their phones with ROM images from this forum should know better than to seek support from their mobile operator after having updated their ROM. They should have known that they would not like this.
Now we all have to suffer.
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Click to collapse
I have never gone to my mobile operator nor the phone support service center! I have not a single doubt in my mind that I know better than the "technician" sitting behind his desk claiming to fix my PDA whenever it hicks up!
This forum and only THIS FORUM, helped 100K of people to fix their own PDAs and even created a wide knowledge to those beginners who knew nada about roms or tweaking pdas!
But sorry to say that OS developers have gone too far this time and as it was rightly said, the tighter and tougher they become the more roms ther will be out there even more than they can imagine, since it is a challenge they've started, they'll have to face't.
columbo said:
I have never been one to defend Microsoft, but from reading their letter carefully, it would appear it has more to do with the mobile operators putting pressure on them.
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Click to collapse
I think that, in this case, M$ is hiding itself behind the mobile operators. Bit too easy, ain't it...
In the end
In the end it all comes down to this:
We ALL get F*CKED in the (*) by Bill Gates and his friends
bastiaanoskam said:
In the end it all comes down to this:
We ALL get F*CKED in the (*) by Bill Gates and his friends
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Click to collapse
What an amazingly constructive comment you made there...... I would say that this is just a part of life and there is nothing we can do about it. To be honest we all knew this course of action was inevitable.
This action is corporate companies trying to protect there product - can you really blame them for that....... Money makes the world go round and all that...
columbo said:
1) If the mobile operators and manufacturers would employ developers who were even half as quick and resourceful as the developers here, they might actually have sold me a phone that worked properly to start with...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well why don't they employ US
I am unemployed atm...
The official HTC forum in Norway has confirmed that HTC will release an WM6 update for TyTn.
http://smartmobil.no/Article639.phtml
Sorry if this information is outdated
Its also on Qtek's swedish site that theres 5 HTC phones definitly getitng the official upgrade.. http://www.qtek.se/sweden/nyheter/senaste_nytt.aspx
I'm sure it has already been covered someplace else on the forums already mind.
Yea, i think it have been posted earlier today/this week. Says late summer, so im thinking july, august
well, this is great news.
let's hope the official update will have all problems fixed etc.
Cingular announced this a few weeks ago. Actually they confirmed WM6 for the 8525, blackjack AND treo 750. No release dates though, but engadget reported that the Blackjack update is probably going to be released the earliest.
official WM6
Hi
Its true that TyTn gone have an official WM6. But I’m not sure that they can delivery it in June or July because TyTn Europe couldn’t jet delivery a new Swedish MW5 Rom witch been known since months on xda-developers forum it was suppose to delivery in January 07. so I satisfying so long with current WM6 such as Black, LVSW etc.
regards
Yes, and the question is: witch one will be better? Or better suiteable...
I believe that the heroes here (we all are) investigated so much in this stuff that I will make this statement: HTC learn from XDA or you lose!!! Probably they've read all our treads and learnd from it.
Question: What do you think concerning this matter?
I think Cingular/HTC waits for the developers here to solve all the problems then they just copy and release what was done here Saves them time and money developing their own stuff. lol
krisg0 said:
I think Cingular/HTC waits for the developers here to solve all the problems then they just copy and release what was done here Saves them time and money developing their own stuff. lol
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Click to collapse
hahaha, lol, man, its cool.
They will read your post and theirs faces will be red.
Its true though... even if an offical release becomes available for my Vario II, I'm not totally sure that I would upgrade giving tha I'm so happy with my LVSW WM6 install
i have the same sentiments... the roms here are almost "made to order" with features that majority of us agree on. I really can't imagine upgrading to an official "operator" or "manufacturer" rom unless there's a big boo boo in the one's i've installed from here (which there have been none I might add).
Cheerios! Leo
hjkl;' why no delete?
krisg0 said:
I think Cingular/HTC waits for the developers here to solve all the problems then they just copy and release what was done here Saves them time and money developing their own stuff. lol
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Click to collapse
For sure, this is the development field of WM6.
Where are the going to find such gurus as here?
And for free....
leo-chan said:
i have the same sentiments... the roms here are almost "made to order" with features that majority of us agree on. I really can't imagine upgrading to an official "operator" or "manufacturer" rom unless there's a big boo boo in the one's i've installed from here (which there have been none I might add).
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Click to collapse
I presonally prefer official ROMs over these user-made. WM6 roms I've tried do have more or less annoying bugs and unusefull software (xcept maybe for vanillas).
Original roms are (or at least should be) guaranteed to work on phones they have been made for.
jfrm said:
For sure, this is the development field of WM6.
Where are the going to find such gurus as here?
And for free....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, advanced users here provide very much, but not that many actually developes the OS itself. They just add tweaks
and some freeware programs in it.
Oh and believe me, there are more gurus out there as well. This is just a forum with few experts and I doubt they
do this for a living, more like a hobby.
For free? How many times you have paid for a rom that operator releases?
And WM6 for free? I'd say that's piracy. You do pay for at least to upgrade from Windows XP to Vista?
When you buy a new computer that comes with an OS, you can't assume that you are entitled for a free upgrade
to OS when ever one is released.
I find the best thing this forum has to offer is free problem solving when it comes to bricking your device when
you either don't have a clue what you are doing or then something goes wrong while flashing your phone.
Hats off for the expert for that.
Wiper said:
And WM6 for free? I'd say that's piracy. You do pay for at least to upgrade from Windows XP to Vista?
When you buy a new computer that comes with an OS, you can't assume that you are entitled for a free upgrade to OS when ever one is released.
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Click to collapse
I found this comment interesting - and technically, it sounds true , so as not to diverse from the original post, I've started a new thread incase anyone else wonders what the legalities are... I don't know, I'm just wondering myself!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=302409
Great news...
I wonder if this is the reason the upgrade that was announced for Q1 still hasn't been released?
Jörg
Wiper said:
You do pay for at least to upgrade from Windows XP to Vista?
When you buy a new computer that comes with an OS, you can't assume that you are entitled for a free upgrade
to OS when ever one is released.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is quite different thing for several reasons:
1. You can't go and buy an OS for a PocketPC or smartphone. Moreover, there is no and can't be a market for OSes for such devices: any build is device dependent. Show me that shop, and I'll buy Symbian or Linux for my TyTN!
2. When you buy a motherboard, you expect free BIOS update, especially if the original is buggy. For embedded devices (STB, modem, router, MP3 player etc) you do expect free firmware update, especially if the original one is buggy. No matter that the firmware is based on a Linux or even no OS. Windows Mobile is just a part of the firmware for our devices.
And, because Windows Mobile is always buggy, we do expect free updates!
Yes, you get free updates for BIOS as you do get for your phone. They are called ROM updates, which include fixes for radio, bootloader, OS fixes and stuff, but NOT a new OS.
As I see it, when a new OS has been released, it will be sold as a part of a new phone (OEM). As you can't purchase OEM versions you are stuck with the one you currently own, but you still do get free updates.
I would find it quite strange if you would be supported with brand new OS for no additional cost, since I believe the operators/manufacturers sure has to pay license fees for
new OS's.
Wiper said:
I would find it quite strange if you would be supported with brand new OS for no additional cost, since I believe the operators/manufacturers sure has to pay license fees for
new OS's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't be so restricted, look wider!
Manufacturers get money from selling their devices. If they won't update the OS on just released models (and TyTN is far from EOL), they loose sales. Then they can give the same ROM to us, old owners, for no cost for them.
Then, they just announced new models on almost the same hardware. They have to use the new OS on them, so they have to make the new ROM for them. But if they won't update our ROMs with the new OS, they'd have to continue supporting two different lines of ROMs, instead of one with small very specific changes. It's additional cost. Or, drop support for recent devices, means loose their face and then sales of new devices.
Believe me, it's not free, and not for no cost from us. We paid enough to let them support us until EOL, and they earn enough from such upgrades.
Just like owners of other devices paid for all the firmware updates, we paid for our updates. The early we purchased the more we paid, BTW. An update with the new OS for recent devices for HTC is cheaper than no updates or updates with old OS. Even if the update would be less stable/useful than WM5 AKU3.5!
Wiper said:
Yes, you get free updates for BIOS as you do get for your phone. They are called ROM updates, which include fixes for radio, bootloader, OS fixes and stuff, but NOT a new OS.
As I see it, when a new OS has been released, it will be sold as a part of a new phone (OEM). As you can't purchase OEM versions you are stuck with the one you currently own, but you still do get free updates.
I would find it quite strange if you would be supported with brand new OS for no additional cost, since I believe the operators/manufacturers sure has to pay license fees for
new OS's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Microsoft provides the upgrade to the OEM for free (which it looks like they are doing for WM6) and the OEM provides the upgrade to current owners for free (which it looks like they will do when they eventually do it), then it is not piracy.
Keep in mind that Microsoft really makes its money on its core products (currently Vista, Office 2007 and Exchange 2007). They REALLY want users (especially enterprise users) to upgrade to those new products. If you have a Windows Mobile device, you need WM6 on those devices to take full advantage of the new features in the core products, so why wouldn't they give it away? It will pay for itself twice or three times over. Besides, as other users have pointed out, WM6 is really just a bug fix maintenance release for WM5.0!
John
I've owned a couple of these HTC phones, formerly a Cingular/Siemens SX66, and also a small one by Audiovox...can't remember model but WM based, now got a Tmobile Dash.
All based on Windows Mobile, and my question is: HTC PHONES DO THEY REALLY WORK???
In the Forums I read nothing but problems, my experience's not good either. My first SX66 was defective, the replace froze way too often/needed reset (WM froze, CONNECTIVITY was POOR as it was on the Audiovox (I threw it against the wall and smashed to pieces) and STILL IS on the Dash..maybe not as BAD
I want to install a new language support on the Dash....doesn't seem to be possible
I "upgraded" to WM6 but I think I actually lost rather than gained in terms of versatility features and feel...
I'm thinkin of gettin a TyTn....but is it worth the aggravations and headaches, since I'm going to need to unlock and most likely extra language support for text messaging.....Is it possible to Add???
INPUT/OPINIONS WELCOME
THANKS
Sounds like you'd be happier with a iPhone...
Probably I'd be happier....
with an iPhone...if it was a 3rd Gen but still lags behind
BTW in the list I forgot to include the Treo 750....another flop...I've had it for some time and it's a waste
Just out of curiousity, what are you expecting from your phone? So far the dash has handled a lot of what I threw at it.
And yes, HTC phones work...at least as well as WM6 lets them.
I would recommend a title change for this thread. The question "do they really work" is a really stupid one.
ReverseImage said:
I've owned a couple of these HTC phones, formerly a Cingular/Siemens SX66, and also a small one by Audiovox...can't remember model but WM based, now got a Tmobile Dash.
All based on Windows Mobile, and my question is: HTC PHONES DO THEY REALLY WORK???
In the Forums I read nothing but problems, my experience's not good either. My first SX66 was defective, the replace froze way too often/needed reset (WM froze, CONNECTIVITY was POOR as it was on the Audiovox (I threw it against the wall and smashed to pieces) and STILL IS on the Dash..maybe not as BAD
I want to install a new language support on the Dash....doesn't seem to be possible
I "upgraded" to WM6 but I think I actually lost rather than gained in terms of versatility features and feel...
I'm thinkin of gettin a TyTn....but is it worth the aggravations and headaches, since I'm going to need to unlock and most likely extra language support for text messaging.....Is it possible to Add???
INPUT/OPINIONS WELCOME
THANKS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course you're only going to hear about problems on forums, that's what they're there for: to find answers to your problems. People don't normally spend time praising something they own, there's no need for it.
As far as HTC goes, I have been pretty happy with my Dash. After getting all the nuisances tweaked, I can't picture the phone being much better.
PS - **** the iPhone. Worst device I have ever used.
PPS - I agree with changing the title of this thread. It is silly.
perhaps this is more the OP's speed?
I wouldn't get a Tytn.
I was so happy changing from a tytn to the Excalibur. There's still problems with the stability of WM professional vs WM standard.
Standard seems more robust and usable as a phone.
Also 3G on the tytn although is nice drains the battery.
I used to change phones every six months. The tytn only lasted 3 months before I was fedup with it. The excalibur is a phone which might actually be used for the full 2 year contract.
Well can't understand what's silly about the title, but the question is: 1) As with the "normal" Windows...xp-mill...etc" the OS suckes!!!
Microsoft spends so much money on developing but still SUCKS! keeps freezing and it's very unstable...I had so many fights with my GF because she couldn't hear me while using a "Blue Angel"..."this only happens with your phone...etc"
as for the connection quality these HTC if don't have a GOOD connection you're very likely to be stuck with an UNUSABLE piece of hardware.
I hate when the person next to me 's talking madly and I can't even connect.
Last but not LEAST, I think companies try too hard to limit/direct people's free choice! If there's a contract in force leave free choice how I want to use MY phone, therefore they ought to be HIGHLY CUSTOMIZEABLE...
In other words they only do a GREAT JOB @ screwing you around.
If someone 's satisfied with that, well...their choice...I know I'm not
Best Wishes
ReverseImage said:
HTC PHONES DO THEY REALLY WORK???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope.
This is why there is a dedicated website, forum, community, etc revolving around them.
I'm a huge fan of the Elmo walkie talkie myself.
-Mc
Choose something non-HTC for yourself, this forum will thank you
ReverseImage said:
Well can't understand what's silly about the title, but the question is: 1) As with the "normal" Windows...xp-mill...etc" the OS suckes!!!
Microsoft spends so much money on developing but still SUCKS! keeps freezing and it's very unstable...I had so many fights with my GF because she couldn't hear me while using a "Blue Angel"..."this only happens with your phone...etc"
as for the connection quality these HTC if don't have a GOOD connection you're very likely to be stuck with an UNUSABLE piece of hardware.
I hate when the person next to me 's talking madly and I can't even connect.
Last but not LEAST, I think companies try too hard to limit/direct people's free choice! If there's a contract in force leave free choice how I want to use MY phone, therefore they ought to be HIGHLY CUSTOMIZEABLE...
In other words they only do a GREAT JOB @ screwing you around.
If someone 's satisfied with that, well...their choice...I know I'm not
Best Wishes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Short: Yes they do work
But I have had a HTC Blue Angel (SX66), Faraday (2125), Tornado (sp5m), Wizard (8125), Tytn (8525), Excalibur (dash), Treo 750, Star Trek (8500), Vox (s710), Cavalier (c730). All phone have some issues, but I can tell you seriously they work better than any other phone on the market. And you shouldnt be worried that people complain about them you should be excited that these phones give you the freedom to log onto a website like this in order to solve problems instead of just complain.
I had my cavalier for a month before all of a sudden I just upgraded it with full youtube integration because of this website.
Be happy you have a phone that gives you the ultimate ability to do everything.
Plus HTC knows how to make a phone teh sexy
ReverseImage said:
Well can't understand what's silly about the title, but the question is: 1) As with the "normal" Windows...xp-mill...etc" the OS suckes!!!
Microsoft spends so much money on developing but still SUCKS! keeps freezing and it's very unstable...I had so many fights with my GF because she couldn't hear me while using a "Blue Angel"..."this only happens with your phone...etc"
as for the connection quality these HTC if don't have a GOOD connection you're very likely to be stuck with an UNUSABLE piece of hardware.
I hate when the person next to me 's talking madly and I can't even connect.
Last but not LEAST, I think companies try too hard to limit/direct people's free choice! If there's a contract in force leave free choice how I want to use MY phone, therefore they ought to be HIGHLY CUSTOMIZEABLE...
In other words they only do a GREAT JOB @ screwing you around.
If someone 's satisfied with that, well...their choice...I know I'm not
Best Wishes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If your computer freezes or gets blue screens it's 90% of the time your hardware that fails. And if you are so unhappy about windows xp then I suggest you use linux..see what you can make of that.
As far as i'm consurned the Windows mobile phones are quite customizeable as long as you have some sense of what you are doing.
IGNORANCE IS BLISS!
I an a tech junkie, computer geek through and through, but I feel like a complete n00b when I come on here. If you can help, I have a few questions that I think you can answer, or at least point me in the right direction.
First, I haven't dealt with WM since...I think 5.0 that I had on my HTC 8125 back in 2006 so please cut me some slack. I am going to buy a new phone but ATT has sh*t for good smart phones and unlocked HTC phones are expensive so I'll probably go with a chinese smartphone. I have 2 lined up, the first is a clone of the Touch Cruise called HTY T4242+ and the second is the HTC P3470 clone called Flagship P660+. Can you give me a hint which is better? I get the specs but I'm wondering if anyone has actually dealt with actual hardware of these 2 clones before.
And second, I'm looking to upgrade one of the phones to 6.5 but I have no idea how, is there any step by step tut out there that could help me or could someone throw one together? I have a Zune HD, and the Zune 4.0 software that runs on it is basically a simplified version of the main screen of 6.5 and I love it, but looking forward to Manila.
I may not be a guru, but I will say this: It's extremely unlikely that a chinese clone will get an official upgrade to 6.5, and being that there is probably not a huge enthusiast community for either of those, I'd say that an unoffical upgrade is out of the question. Not to mention that the methods detailed on this forum are only valid for HTC manufactured devices. I'd say that if you want a phone with 6.5, you'll have to at least purchase a clone that comes with 6.5, or buy a device with a large community of developers.
On another note, I'm on AT&T, and I really like the AT&T Tilt2. It comes with 6.5, and has tons of cooked ROMs and support here at XDA-Developers. Also, rumor has it that the high spec Sony XPERIA X10, running android, will make it to AT&T sometime next year. Hope that helps
Helped some, thanks. One comes with 6.5 and that sounds good right now. Do you know of any clone that has a good dev following? I can't afford a 400 dollar unlocked phone, ATT has a bogus concept that you have to buy the data plan to even get a smart phone.
I do hope they get an Android phone though, I hope someone comes up with a way to replace Windows Mobile with Android to it's very roots, not just an app but to be able to swap OSes through replacing files on actual hardware.
Hi all.
I'm new to both the Android OS, having been a happy solitary XDA Pocket PC user until last week, and also to posting so I hope this query is in the correct area. Please excuse and move if I'm wrong.
So my first query is this: does any one know if the best ever and most addictive game on Pocket PC ever, NEOTILES by SHEALD, is available to play on the Samsung Galaxy S. I have played this game since it first arrived on my XDA II and I am missing the calming effect it has had on me ever since.
So to my second and third questions: if it's not available to play on Galaxy S can anyone recode it from Pocket PC code to an Android compatible code please, or if you happen to know the author Mr Stephan Heald, can you ask him to recode it and post it on Android Market as soon as possible before I murder someone from stress lol.
I sincerely believe from comments I have read on the net that the fans of neotiles love this game and would happily pay for a new version of it for the many new Android smart phones.