Develop Bugs

better battery life with wm5.0

hi, i just wanted to say that my findings after yesting wm5.0 this week that after using my device the same way i used it on wm2003se, that at 12.00pm my battery is usually on about 20% , using wm5 i now have 65% left doing the same thing. i do have backlite on low, and im not sure if it has anything to do with patches, but its better than wm2003se, an its only a beta copy. lol.
anyone else having bettery battery life using wm5.0?
p.s, i am still waiting for someone to explain the difference between rom and ram that wm5.0 uses.

I am seeing better battery life, but nothing I can put a number too.
Also, GPRS works everytime. No resets required.
If only bluetooth worked right!

even by Bluetooth works perfect, i havent got bt headset, so havent tried, but i dont need one so even if it didnt work, i wouldnt care, lol.
if u have that mamiach patch, for backlight and stuff, u will see the old icon for battery and at gives u the % of battery. and today plugins for battery meters also work, i have tried a few, and they seem to work.
but i use o2 plus, and that runs perfect, hell, i might even be Brave enough to try o2 active, lol, i can always reflash if it fooks up!

WM5 RAM and ROM... (for joey jojo)
The difference between RAM and ROM (for any computer) is that the ROM (Read Only Memory) must be flashed to change state. This means that data stored/flashed to the ROM is persistent and is not affected by a loss of power. It can only be altered by a flash operation, but can be read at any time. RAM (Random Access Memory) can be written, read, stored only with power applied. This means that RAM is cleared whenever power is lost.
What this means in terms of WM5 is that your personal data and programs are written (flashed) to ROM, which is not affected by battery (or backup battery) failure. Since this information does not require any changes to be used (a program is loaded into RAM when it is run, so it occupies ROM until called by the user), it is not necessary for it to occupy RAM space for storage. This means that RAM is used to run the OS and programs, not to store your PIM data or programs.
This explanation is in layman's terms and is not applicable to all operating systems, but does describe in general terms how RAM/ROM work in PDA's.
Hope this offers some insight into memory function...
Mick...

Mine installed like a dream and seemed to last about the same but now its bein cained big time bcause iv overclocked it to make it run smoothly. just ordered a better battery

And battery life matters a lot less now! I can run it to the ground without fear of loosing any data!

In addition to what mwheeler2 said, under 2003SE there was what was known as the 72 hour rule, meaning that manufacturers were obliged to make sure that even when the battery reads 0% and the device shuts off there is still enough power to keep the ram contents stored for a period of 72 hours, so in other words a large proportion of the battery capacity was used just to store the data in RAM, although dont ask me if that includes the backup battery as well!
But don't just take my word for it, read for yourself:
http://buzzdev.net/index.php?option=com_newsfeeds&task=view&feedid=12&Itemid=64

Twiglet said:
Mine installed like a dream and seemed to last about the same but now its bein cained big time bcause iv overclocked it to make it run smoothly. just ordered a better battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you tell me how you overclocked it? or refer me to the right post?

i dont seem to have any different battery life with my 1490 mAh. But I just put an order in for a 2400 mAh, can't wait to see how this baby runs

dilipc said:
Can you tell me how you overclocked it? or refer me to the right post?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@Dilipc: might be what you're looking for: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=27976

is Universal very slow...

Hi all... I need your help... I have a Blue Angel and I want to buy a universal. But I read that Universal is very slow in compare with fx. blue angel... Is it tru? How can it be true...! because BA`a processor is 400 mhz..! Please tell me a little abouet universal... What is hot and not... thanx...

BA is 400mhz powering a 320x240 display.
Uni is 520mhz powering 640x480 display.
BA running WM2003se runs from RAM.
Uni running WM5 runs from NAND.
The Uni is slower, but it's a far better device If your BA is running WM5, then it's already slower than the BA running WM2003se, but the display is what makes the Universal great

AlanJC said:
BA is 400mhz powering a 320x240 display.
Uni is 520mhz powering 640x480 display.
BA running WM2003se runs from RAM.
Uni running WM5 runs from NAND.
The Uni is slower, but it's a far better device If your BA is running WM5, then it's already slower than the BA running WM2003se, but the display is what makes the Universal great
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your answer... But my BA with wm5 is very faster then BA with WM2003... And I think speed is VERY important, if you would like enjoy your machine... and yes the display is what makes the universal great : )
by the way... you said Uni running WM5 runs from NAND. What is nand?thanks again...

For an explenation of NAND memory look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#NAND_memories
It's true the universal was very slow at first but with the new rom's comming out it actually performs quite up to speed imho.

I agree it's faster than the AKU2 and earlier days, but it's still slow compared to a BA running from RAM, especially when you run things like TomTom or anything else that renders the whole screen in high res.

thanks for link for NAND... Is it so a minus that uni run from nand. Can I also change the Q... What is the plus and minus with the universal... I have now a BA. I know uni has a great display but is there anything else that can be a reason to buy and use an universal in stead of BA?

I Used to have a BA, the universal beats it in every way except size.

Midget_1990 said:
I Used to have a BA, the universal beats it in every way except size.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so you say the speed is not annoying...

I don't know how many of you are running the HTC phone skins, but that certainly is a major slow down. If you use the OS default phone skin it speeds things up significantly.
The processor can also be kicked up to full speed (not exactly overclocking, since it's a standard clock speed), and things will fly along, although I've never found the need to do so.
It's fast enough. It's not going to beat Blue Gene or anything, but it works and is a nice device. Particularly at VGA.
V

vijay555 said:
I don't know how many of you are running the HTC phone skins, but that certainly is a major slow down. If you use the OS default phone skin it speeds things up significantly.
The processor can also be kicked up to full speed (not exactly overclocking, since it's a standard clock speed), and things will fly along, although I've never found the need to do so.
It's fast enough. It's not going to beat Blue Gene or anything, but it works and is a nice device. Particularly at VGA.
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you tell me how to put the default OS Skin without losing the video call button?
And also how to speed up the processor without overclocking it?
Thanks

I don't use video calling but you can access video calling externally, don't have to use the video call button. However, frankly I've not investigated this much, so in you case it may be worth sticking with the phone skin.
Since it also disables dialing prediction I think, stick it out if you need that stuff.
But do try it with the OS skin just to see how much difference it makes!
Speed up the processor - the standard overclockers do this I imagine.
I wrote a clock speed changer that will notch up the speed: I don't consider this overclocking, since the pxa27x specifies it can be clocked to 624mhz, just normally isn't. This app was unreleased since it's only for my research, and not required since other apps do the same better.
V

VJ: can you recommend an application for the uni to clock it up to 624?

I think Pocket Hack Master is the standard recommendation:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=246214
V

vijay555 said:
I don't use video calling but you can access video calling externally, don't have to use the video call button. However, frankly I've not investigated this much, so in you case it may be worth sticking with the phone skin.
Since it also disables dialing prediction I think, stick it out if you need that stuff.
But do try it with the OS skin just to see how much difference it makes!
Speed up the processor - the standard overclockers do this I imagine.
I wrote a clock speed changer that will notch up the speed: I don't consider this overclocking, since the pxa27x specifies it can be clocked to 624mhz, just normally isn't. This app was unreleased since it's only for my research, and not required since other apps do the same better.
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info.
I try'd the OS phone skin and didn't noticed much diference. So I switched back to my previous one from Helmi-c rom.
One bigger problem that I have with this skin is that i'm using the VGA hack version of Helmi_c rom (the latest version) and sometimes when I switch from the phone skin to the today screen, the phone hangs and only the bottom bar works, so I have to rebbot the phone to comeback to normal. I'm using the vga phone hack too.

I don't recommend using it, but have you tried VJBigPhone?
V

vijay555 said:
I don't recommend using it, but have you tried VJBigPhone?
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what i'm using, but why don't you recomend it?
Is there any alternative to make the dialpad big for VGA hack?

I thought there were some hacked versions of the Eten skins or similar for VGA... not sure tho. I don't use my own apps..
V

SPEED

Anybody found anything useful on how to speed up this slow bugger? ive tried cleaner ROMS, wm 6.1, changing the pp, and doing the usual reg hacks for changing the glyph, font, and file system cache as high as they will go but...its still so slow all the time!
for a dual-core, brand new device...i was really expecting more.
anything anyone?
thanks.

You say it's slow but in what sense though..
Also, if you expect it to be PC fast then we all know it's not going to happen. Also, fast could be referring to personal preference (I think), cuz my device is fast in terms of menu responded in timely manner, connection is good enough. For most part, I don't have to wait 8 seconds for something to show up after I clicked it. But some programs I have require a little time to load like sprint tv it takes about 3 seconds.
Also, checkout HTC Performance, some say it worked on Touch some say it doesnt due to dual core in touch.
Good luck.

vboyz103 said:
You say it's slow but in what sense though..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i mean that when i click "settings" in the start menu, i have to wait a good 3-4 seconds before it comes up, and another 3 seconds before it will respond. on a clean stock rom, 6.1, or dcd's 0.2.0 rom. messaging is (slightly?) slow to open...
not sure what other specific things there are. the device just seems to be overall sluggish.
thanks for the tip on the htc performance, i will give that a shot and see.
i just wish wizcode could put out their v5 build that supports the 7500 chipset! looks like the wait for a faster device and longer battery is still about a month off sadly...

HTC Performance won't work on the qualcomm processor in your device. I haven't seen any word yet on an overclocker for the qualcomm chips.

I find the vogue quite fast, but not as fast as my 624mhz dell axim x50v with wm6
thats stinkin fast.

My Mogul was faster then the damn Touch guys, come on... half as much RAM, otherwise, same hardware. Explain THAT. If HTC would just get off their collective asses and release the video drivers...

I agree, my XV6700 (WM6, Helmi) was quite a bit faster at some things.
I hate the lag I'm seeing on some of the buttons (end call for one even with hack to speed it up) and others.

trehouse said:
I agree, my XV6700 (WM6, Helmi) was quite a bit faster at some things.
I hate the lag I'm seeing on some of the buttons (end call for one even with hack to speed it up) and others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pretty sure that my dads axim x30, with ppc 2003 or whatever, has a screen that is A HUNDRED times more responsive/sensitive (pretty retarded of HTC to make an all touch device for the masses that isnt have as responsive as a device released 4-5 years ago) and the device just runs so much faster.
everything is instant on the x30. you barely even have to touch the screen, adn BAM. you are already there. whereas on the vogue you would still be in the process of getting the screen to recognize that you had touched it, then wait for it to respond and get moving.
true, that device has a 624mhz processor, but it only has half the ram. this device is 5 years newer with an os 5 years newer, yet still FAR slower.
it makes me so mad how unresponsive the screen on this device is compared to the x30.

I know the HTC Performance app supposedly doesn't work on our touch....but with mine overclocked to 524Mhz, it seems like everything just opens much faster. (I can especially tell with Opera and the Messaging app).

Red49er said:
I know the HTC Performance app supposedly doesn't work on our touch....but with mine overclocked to 524Mhz, it seems like everything just opens much faster. (I can especially tell with Opera and the Messaging app).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm, strange. i didnt notice any difference when i tried it.
have you tried shutting off the "overclocking", waiting 10 seconds, then shutting down, then waiting 10 seconds, then poking the reset hole and trying the app's mentioned again? is there a definite speed increase if you try doing that?

ludester said:
I find the vogue quite fast, but not as fast as my 624mhz dell axim x50v with wm6
thats stinkin fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the X50V on the lastest wm6 rom and the vogue runs circles around it. The only way the x50v is fast is with one small application open. The only speed advantage I see is in games and videos because of built-in video acceleration.
Nate

Vogue is plenty fast for me.

$120 worth it to upgrade Axim X50V to 128mb Ram???

Hi, I have an old Axim X50V that i don't know what do with. My mom was using it for Skype and its been working ok but now that we have a dedicated skype phone and i have Touch Pro I don't know what to do with it.
I had it upgraded to WM 6.0 but the performance was really poor due to some kind of slow ram problem. I don't want to give the unit away and was planning on using it as a dedicated PMP with its huge vga 3.7 screen and the possiblilty of 32GB with it's two flash slots but even that wasnt working to well. i was trying videos but sometimes it would slow down to a crawl and suddenly be back to normal again. i was using it for opera in bed but even that wa impossible at times.
I would downgrade it to WM2003SE but i would lose alot of the newer software that only works with WM5 and above. and the annoying problem of losing all data when the unit was drained of battery.
I read a long time ago about upping the ram to 128mb using somekind of faster bga memory or something like that so i searched and found the cheapest place was expansys-usa which charges $117 to do the upgrade.
Is this something that i can do myself? Im pretty ok with the soldering iron and magnifer or is it really small and requires professional work?
also would this change in ram still cause the same problems with the slowdowns or would it completely solve the problem?
or should i look elsewhere for a better dedicated pmp? like $199 for a hx4700
any chance of getting abdroid working on this thing?

hmm perhaps i might have misunderstood the problem maybe it was the rom and not the ram that is slow
i heard somewhat suggest that some kind of ramdisk method helped the problem can anyone explain this to me?

dont sound like an ram issue
you have to understand that if it came with wm2003
it used ram for storage and one could adjust it
but with wm5 flash was used for storage and flash being much much slower
then ram
pagepool was interduced as cache it was a part of the ram used for that spc purpos
so imho i would look into changing the pagepool size as adding more ram will
not fix the issue of pagepool being absent or too small

TouchPro2 w/android 2? touchpro2VShero?

hey friends,
I'm still wondering about these two.
is there a way to put the android 2 and sense in the touchpro 2?
that's a consideration for the phone.
regarding droid, well, i hear motorola still trying to regain themselves and i had no good experience with their phones (especially voice quality and performance), so i'm not so sure about the droid.
moreover, i'd like to hear you guys out, if the answer for android 2 to TP2 is a YES, which one is better, the hero or the TP2?
how's the user experience with small-medium palms with the keyboard?
how's the performance? lag time? loadbalance?
how's wm6.5?
preety much noob in all that stuff, but still i have so many answers missing. internet reviews are not that helpful though, not comparing to XDA anyway
please, you're help.
Thanks.

There is no info because it can't be done. You can't run android on TP2 at the moment, and if it happens to run on it, you will have to boot WinMo first so that being said, you will sort off be running 2 os's... so speed will be slow, might as well stick with WinMo 6.5.

Thanks,
I was hoping for a summarized reply
now,
I'm NOT a buisness user, but i'm moving on to work in QA.
I'd like to have excel and word on my phone,
i'd like the thought i can run pc-like apps for winmo (say dosbox for running games) or a lot of others (heroes of might and magic?),
i like customizations, i guess i'll sometime NEED push emails to my phone,
web browsing is actually not so issue to me, unless it's the ONLY alternative.
so i guess winmo is better for me?
or does the hero can do the job? (is it true it gets android 2? sense too?)
which OS is better for me?
i'm looking at the near future but i cannot see past to the long run, so i really have no idea which one to take on both phones. Keyboard can be VERY useful for writing documents and playing games \ browsing i guess.
can u play games that require buttons on the hero?
and a noob question, can i run XP apps on winmo 6.5 or do they need to be adjusted for it?
a lot of questions but they'r the branches of the original, i'd apretiate the answers. The main idea is to take something that may fit my needs & usage, and not something needs to be suited for them.
thanks again.

I say you should go for WM.
Just because you are going to use word excel and other programs.
This just isn't possible on Android. (yet)

Same question
I hear ya HTCwannabe
I am deciding on the TP2 vs Hero for my wife who will be using for business function more than movies, pics, movies and games.
I went and saw both at a local store to actually see them and feel the hardware. Both are quality construction.
I have to say, Android is great, but, as a business user, I have to say that WM is the better way to go and having the keyboard is great too.
Not to say Android won't become more introduced into the business world, but Android is just hitting puberty with 2.0.
I really want to give Hero a chance and "make it work", but too scared.
Probably going with TP2 for now after I do a bit more research.

First of all, I can edit Excel and word docs on my G1, so that is NOT WM only.
Second of all, Hero runs on version 1.5 (Cupcake). HTC has not updated to Android 2.0 (Eclair) for the Android version of Sense. I'll be honest with you, I switched from Android to the TP2, for one reason, Android is a battery hog. With a $50 extended battery (That added significantly to the size of the phone) I got less then 10 hours of battery. The task management is pretty much crap on that device right now.
So if you need a phone that'll last for at LEAST a day (Heavy Internet/AIM/Skype/SMS/Phone calls) and that has a good speaker phone, you are going to want to go with the TP2.
If you don't care about Battery, want free turn by turn directions, an AWESOME App market, then you want to get an Android device. *EDIT* Also way better games on WM. I have Warcraft 2, and Age of Empires. You can't just run programs from XP, it has to be modified/ported over. However, as I said, I have the full version of Warcraft 2, so it obviously can be done. If anyone finds StarCraft/Quake 2, and sends me a PM, you'll be my best friend! lol
I have heard a RUMOR (from an unverified internet blog/thread) that when the HTC HD2 arrives in America, it will have two flavors - Android, and WinMo. So you may want to wait till the HD2 is out, because if it does come out in two flavors, I'm positive someone will get it to dual boot, or you will at least be able to change from one to the other with a simple flash. (Assuming of course that they stick identical hardware into both devices.)

Although I'm kinda biased, I'd say the Touch Pro2 is the way to go. It's an excellent device, the best I've ever had. As others have said, Android is still kind of young, and not the best quite yet. Also, as someone else has mentioned, the battery life is abysmal. I ran it on my HTC TyTN II and I couldn't get a full day out of it. On the same device, I could go 2 days without recharging.
Regarding Android on the Touch Pro2, it is possible. However, it is NOT possible at this time. The developers are still working on hardware support. Eventually, they will release a .zip file with all the necessary files. You put them on your SD card, and run an executable which will start Android and kick Windows Mobile out of RAM. This means that for now you still have to boot WM before you boot Android. And also, you might have to wait a while before stuff like the camera, GPS antenna, and keyboard are fully supported. After a while, they'll probably be able to get Android fully working. Also, there is a project that is centered around getting linux natively booting with code injection, but that's gonna move slowly.
As for the HD2 Android rumor, I don't believe that will happen. HTC should be releasing a device with comparable specs to the HD2, except with Android.

Touchpro2
I have touchpro2 and this is my opinion based on friends of mine that have android
1)battery power- android on heavy use only last 3 hours max...touchpro2 7-8 hours.
2) All buisness apps plus voice quality ,internet sharing,etc. right out the box. No updates requires.
3)As far as games konami has signed a contract to make games for touchpro2 so in 1-3 month you see major improvement plus lots of freeware games you can find online.
4)windows mobile will be able to run android later on anyway...so whats sense of buying android lol!!!
The only advantage android has is its a little faster and thats about it. For now they have better selection of games by a little margin. Windows Mobile is the way to go. In couple days I will release a 6 level arcade shooter for free so that should help your gamming fix. Any other questions just ask

I really don't understand the idea of "heavy usage" being given here for the TP2.
There is no way I could get more than a few hours of heavy usage out of mine. If I have a really slow data connection it improves battery life because it stops the thing heating up but with full on HSDPA the battery gets eaten through really very quickly. A flight doesn't haveto be delayed for very long before I have to reach for the charger.
And that's without using the GPS. Have you tried walking about with Google Maps connected to HSDPA and GPS whilst getting calls over bluetooth? Battery life is really only 2-3 hours, if that!
This has been pretty much the same (although the TP2 is the best) with every HTC device I have ever owned.
I am not saying Android is any better but I'm not sure if it's the OS, more the number of features sucking the power.

dik23 said:
I really don't understand the idea of "heavy usage" being given here for the TP2.
There is no way I could get more than a few hours of heavy usage out of mine. If I have a really slow data connection it improves battery life because it stops the thing heating up but with full on HSDPA the battery gets eaten through really very quickly. A flight doesn't haveto be delayed for very long before I have to reach for the charger.
And that's without using the GPS. Have you tried walking about with Google Maps connected to HSDPA and GPS whilst getting calls over bluetooth? Battery life is really only 2-3 hours, if that!
Ok honestly any phone that you make calls over bluetooth will zip mega energy , theres no way around that. As far as overheating thats an issue. If you have insurance I suggest you tell them your touchpro2 is overheating and to send you a replacement. Your touchpro2 should not get hot like that.
The android under the same use as you just talked about in the above quote will only last an hour tops!! I dare any android user to say it lasts longer under those conditions.
As far as apps and games concerned I found awesome apps
I put them up when i get a chance or link them here. The amount of programs does use up alot of energy , but when 6.5 official rom comes it will reduce battery consumtion by about 30%. Long live the King!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Where did I say overheat ?
I gets warm/hot depending on definition and every HTC device I have had does the same when dealing with high data throughput, just like the Wifi card on your PC will warm up when transferring large files. It's normal, but it's also a waste of battery power.
Anyway, it's kind of difficult to compare the power usage of an OS without having the exact same hardware to test both on.
Has this ever been done ?

Yes in a way
dik23 said:
Where did I say overheat ?
I gets warm/hot depending on definition and every HTC device I have had does the same when dealing with high data throughput, just like the Wifi card on your PC will warm up when transferring large files. It's normal, but it's also a waste of battery power.
Anyway, it's kind of difficult to compare the power usage of an OS without having the exact same hardware to test both on.
Has this ever been done ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well right now as it stands no one has the same OS on both systems but even with half of the programs that touchpro2 has the G2 last less. But I talk facts and not my opinion. So the only thing I can compare is this.
With internet on only surfing thru websites no downolading the G2 last about
2hours45 minutes. Thats 15 minutes less than testers of large magazines said it lasted.
Touchpro2 with internet on surfing thru websites and downloading (i couldnt resist saw some apps) lasted about
6hours 25 min. Me and my friend david( G2 fanboy) did the test. The only variable is david had his phone for 10 months and I had mine 8 months. But I dont think 2 months could have put a dent in his battery that bad. Anyone else test this out.

Not very scientific

go on cnet then
dik23 said:
Not very scientific
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Iam not a scientist lol .
2. Thats the best I can do...I really dont know what your looking for. I just compared battery power.
3. If you want to be very detailed I did a search for you ...go on google type...cnet reviews G2..
4)then after that type..cnet reviews touchpro2..
5)Finally everyone here tries to help there no need for sarcasm. I always try to find answer for anyone who asks. Enjoy your cnet reviews . peace.

Sorry if I didn't find you and your friend browsing the internet on your phones a good comparison of two OS' power usage, and those two reviews still aren't comparing the same hardware.
Without a comparison in which all other influencing factors are ruled out it is impossible to reach any conclusion either way.

what?
dik23 said:
Sorry if I didn't find you and your friend browsing the internet on your phones a good comparison of two OS' power usage, and those two reviews still aren't comparing the same hardware.
Without a comparison in which all other influencing factors are ruled out it is impossible to reach any conclusion either way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Both phones will never have the same hardware or software. Microsoft and google are 2 different companies aiming for different uses.HTC produces both according to what the companies are aiming for. So that comparision will never happen. Its just not possible.
2. Mircosoft doesnt put consideration into games or total speed. Microsoft concentrates on buisness and navagation apps. Microsoft also has better and more frequent updates to thier OS. The bad part is sometimes Mircosoft OS is slow.
3.Android is more a youth movement. Games and apps for teens to young adult is googles focus. Google doesnt recieve updates regularly so critical errors in thier OS usually dont get fix without a long waitinig period. Android however is faster as far as interfacing and jumping from app to app.

Well, I do think that there are some people on this board that would like to disagree on your first point since they are currently trying to make Android work on the TP2 and other WM devices. "It's just not possible" is a bit strong.
You may be correct with the Microsoft concentrating on business but since when have they released any navigation software ? If it exists please give me a link. I know there are a lot of 3rd party navigation apps and Google have their maps and new navigation app (only for Android 2.x in the US at the moment). But Microsoft ?
And saying that WM is slow in comparison is, yet again, impossible to gauge without a proper test, trying to exclude other factors.
I'm not sure about this teen thing with relation to Android either. Apple maybe. And the idea that Google doesn't release fixes quick enough kind of misses the point of open source. I'm aware certain parts of any released Android firmware are closed but the fact most of it's open means that you don't have to wait for a fix, you can do it yourself, or if you're not that way inclined you can get a fix from people who are. With Microsoft, however, you do have to wait and that is that.

conterpoints
As far as running android on touchpro2 , if it happens, I put money on it that touchpro2 will run the android OS faster than G2. The reason I say this is because touchpro2 handle on a daily basis way more programs. With Andriod it comes with the basics internet,google maps,youtube,clock, calender,notepad, sorry Iam having a hard time listing cant think of too much that it comes with.
Windows Mobile touchpro2 I dont even have the time to list
what it comes with but I know you already know.
As far as navagation I dont really use much except for what comes with the touchpro2 is good but I have seen some in these 2 websties www.freewarepocketpc.net and
www.wm6software.com . Hope that helps if I have some time later I find direct links for you.
As far as making applications I only know the basics of making games for touchpro2. If you want to and have time I invite you to my website , its the link on my signature. I enjoy debates like this one , Iam glad I could find someone who can hold intelligent conversation like you without flaming.
I have only 1 question why is it just you and me in this conversation , I was hoping more people would join in , this topic we are discussing is not complex. I was hoping someone else with access to both phones like me would have run a test too and see what thier fesult was.

I moved to the Touch Pro 2 from the G1 (still have it), and I have to say that I get MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better battery life from the Touch Pro 2 than I EVER did from the G1. The Android OS has no task manager (w/o it being rooted/cooked, which I have) and even then, it won't end every application and doesn't save much battery life. The Android OS was less dependable (IMO,) ex: my alarm was unreliable due to sometimes me waking up and it would give me a process error... My Touch Pro 2 would never have that issue (which was recurring atleast 3 times a week on my G1.) I don't know that i would necessarily say that the Android OS is "faster"... but just that it does run "smoother" than sense... I loved Android, but it did happen to be kind of a children's phone (I'm only 22 lol!) and I am in the military so I have to have a very reliable phone! Just my opinion... No "scientific testing" or anything... But I do believe that Zarpy is probably pretty correct in his findings whether they were scientific or not~

army!
If your in military I will assume you like shooting games. This freeware shooter might be fun for you to play try it here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5289209#post5289209
enjoy!