I'm not sure of the legal basis for O2 refusing to supply onlock codes (which they have done with me 3 times now, despite others' success), so I have decided to complain to OFCOM.
1) I don't see how they can control what I do with a phone I have bought privately, SIM free on the open market.
2) I have no contract with them, so they cannot bind me to anything. They have tried telling me I can have the unlock code when I have had my PAYG SIM for a year; however, this is nothing to do with the xda. These were two separate transactions. There is no term in my SIM contract relating to a particular phone.
3)the original owner still has a contract with them and is using his SIM in his new phone, thus they are not losing out. Furthermore, by refusing to unlock it they are getting two customers from one contract.
4) It is anti-competitive, as I cannot choose to go to a cheaper network (I want to use T-Mobile for the free voicemail). They could raise their PAYG tariff astronomically, and I would still have to use O2 or my phone would be useless. I am also unable to use a foreign SIM card when abroad, thus am tied in to expensive international calls, with the money going to O2.
5) What would I do if O2 go bust or cease to trade, or fail to get their licence renewed, etc? My phone would be absolutely useless.
Below is the link I have used to register my complaint. If they are inundated with complaints, hoefully they will do something about it.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/contact_ofcom/general_complaint
Cathy
I guess I am playing Devil's Advocate, but I have to say that I see there point.
Otherwise, ANYONE could buy an XDA2 for just one example, sell it on at a high profit from the subsidisation cost he/she paid/will pay through the contract term, and make a tidy profit there and then, whilst still selling it to you for less than an unlocked SIM free handset from the likes of eBay.
I appreciate your views, BUT, to the letter of the law, UNTIL the original purchaser fulfills his 12 months, its technically not even HIS to sell to you.
Its a grey area, but to the letter of the law, that's the situation.
We ALL know that in reality it doesn't work that way, and we all sell stuff on before the 12 months is up, knowing that we as the original owner are liable to ensure we see out the 12 months.
BUT, in your case however, you are not talking about a day to day ownership, but arguing a point of law because of the difficult situation you are in.
And as I outlined, this is one of the very reasons why, to the letter of the law, its not even meant to pe permissable to even sell it on to you.
It becomes the property of the original purchaser, only at the point he has satisfied his 12 month term, and only then is he really meant to sell it.
We all know this isn't what happens, but it DOES mean we are not in any position to argue law, if we choose to agree to buying it.
Otherwise, i could buy a £120 XDA2 from onestop, with a contract bringing it to £360 all in, over a year, BUT sell it straight on to you now for £400, unopened, sealed, brand new in effect, sim free, and make a tidy profit of £40, AND spread the rest of my repayments to O2, IF they were to then instantly agree to give you the unlock code.
An unlikely scenario to say the least.
(All this of course aside from the fact that the XDA2 can easily be unlocked using any of the tools on this site - including the latest ROM version I beleive - so I am not sure waht the purpose of the post is Cathy - why not just unlock it like I did, to use it on Orange?)
im with you Shadamehr. Why bother complaining when its so easy to unlock it anyway. i unlocked mine without problem using the tools available on this website.
...However, there have also been posts from people who have used the download tools and have then experienced problems. I have the ROM version that requires the hard reset and using bootloader mode, or whatever it is. I am not a computer expert, and I have forund from experience that tampering with things that are at present working is not a good plan. It is very time consuming, and I don't feel competent to deal with any problems that arise.
Cathy said:
I have the ROM version that requires the hard reset and using bootloader mode, or whatever it is. I am not a computer expert, and I have forund from experience that tampering with things that are at present working is not a good plan. It is very time consuming, and I don't feel competent to deal with any problems that arise.
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I completely agree with your right and demand to get services in such a case. However, for anyone that does not want to go through the unlock process with the bootloader and hard reset (the 'old' method), I advise you to upgrade. As far as I know all major sellers now provide upgrades. These will also upgrade your radio to version 1.10.x, which is a very much improved radio version. Well worth the upgrade. After that upgrade the simple upgrade tool (the 'new' method) works.
Cathy, I never meant to offend - just to point out the basic premise that on a point of law, you have no legal basis to ask for the unlock code, because to the letter of the law, he had no legal right to even sell you it.
It's a bit hard insisting on an unlock code from the netowrk, for a device that the owner shouldn't even have sold you anyway now is it?
I know we ALL do it QUIETLY, but that doesn't make a whole lot of difference when we need to kick up a fuss and publicise it does it?
But believe me, the Unlock method you refer to, if you have radio stack version 1.05, is REALLY easy enough, and in fact, the LEAST dangerous, in that it isn't actually CHANGING anything unlike the others, as it is only working out what the unlock code is - it doesn't actually unlock it - it only works out the code for you, so it could be argued it's the least intrusive/dangerous.
You then just put another network SIM into the XDA2, so it gives the obvious unathaurised SIM message, and then asks you to enter the unlock code - just exactly the same as if it was supplied by the network.
Failing that, and if you still are unhappy, which I understand, then the new GENUINE, OFFICIAL ROM Upgrade is now available from the O2 UK website.
It's a long process of around an hour all in, but it updates to the latest version whereby you can run a simple unlock tool on the phone to do it all for you.
Hope this is of some use, and if any of us can help more, just ask here...
Thank you...
ahhh, but...
I would contend that although the owner no longer has the phone and has sold it, he is in fact meeting the subsidation requirement by maintaining his contract.
I would also contend or pose the question that what if you broke the phone (by mistake)?
As long as the contract period is still upheld by the original owner, than the provider has no right to hold the unlock code of the now, transferred phone. That's why there are cancellation fees and long-term contracts.
JS
If a locked phone presents a problem for a potential customer then they should, at the outset, request that the phone be unlocked and that your signing the contract depends on this, the reason, if asked, is that you may have to use a 3rd party sim in another country and you dont wish to carry 2 phones, or see why you should.
Re: ahhh, but...
wiredup said:
I would contend that although the owner no longer has the phone and has sold it, he is in fact meeting the subsidation requirement by maintaining his contract.
I would also contend or pose the question that what if you broke the phone (by mistake)?
As long as the contract period is still upheld by the original owner, than the provider has no right to hold the unlock code of the now, transferred phone. That's why there are cancellation fees and long-term contracts.
JS
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Of course there IS mate.
Because under UK law, the network is within the law to with-hold the code to the actual contract holder, never mind the person they re-sold the handset on to. (Save for them charging a 'small' admin fee and supplying you with it IF you pay of the equivalent of the remainder of your contract).
So they are WELL within their rights to do what they are doing.
Let's not forget here, we are talking about heavy subsidisation by the networks towards the original handset.
My XDA2 cost £119. With my contract, that will be still only £360 or even less, all told.
i can't even buy an equivalent Pocket PC itself for that sort of money, never mind something as swanky as an expensive XDA2 that would cost loads more.
This is becuase the network is so heavily subsidising the cost of it.
And yet you expect them just to say "certainly sir/madam, with pleasure" when you ask them for an unlock code part way through your contract?
Er yeah, right.
Put it this way, the day they do, is the day our handsets start costing £400 or even £500 WITH A CONTRACT.
Let's be real folks!
Again, im with u Shadamehr :wink: . The networks have every right to deny you the unlock code as technically it is still their phone until the contract is fully paid as the handset is heavily subsidised. the networks would lose a lot if the phone was unlocked out of the box or they gave the code away before the contract was up. As i said previously, why bother complaining to them when there are tools available on this website for unlocking the phone , pre and post update. it is just a waste of time and energy when u can have the code in less time than it would take to get through to them to explain to them why they should giv u the code. im not a phone techy but i followed the instructions on the pre update tool and it worked without problem giving me the code. i put my old Vodafone SIM in and entered the code the tool gave me. it worked without a problem . they obviously arent giving you the code Cathy, so cheat like the rest of us :wink: .
Re: ahhh, but...
Shadamehr said:
wiredup said:
I would contend that although the owner no longer has the phone and has sold it, he is in fact meeting the subsidation requirement by maintaining his contract.
I would also contend or pose the question that what if you broke the phone (by mistake)?
As long as the contract period is still upheld by the original owner, than the provider has no right to hold the unlock code of the now, transferred phone. That's why there are cancellation fees and long-term contracts.
JS
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Of course there IS mate.
Because under UK law, the network is within the law to with-hold the code to the actual contract holder, never mind the person they re-sold the handset on to. (Save for them charging a 'small' admin fee and supplying you with it IF you pay of the equivalent of the remainder of your contract).
So they are WELL within their rights to do what they are doing.
Let's not forget here, we are talking about heavy subsidisation by the networks towards the original handset.
My XDA2 cost £119. With my contract, that will be still only £360 or even less, all told.
i can't even buy an equivalent Pocket PC itself for that sort of money, never mind something as swanky as an expensive XDA2 that would cost loads more.
This is becuase the network is so heavily subsidising the cost of it.
And yet you expect them just to say "certainly sir/madam, with pleasure" when you ask them for an unlock code part way through your contract?
Er yeah, right.
Put it this way, the day they do, is the day our handsets start costing £400 or even £500 WITH A CONTRACT.
Let's be real folks!
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Shadamehr,
Clearly you do not understand. Let's suppose: As you stated, the phone would normally be 360, but since the network subsidize the phone, they sell it for 199. Fair enough. I know I am responsible for a contract term of 1 year. Done.
I have later sold the phone after just 3 months. I am STILL responsible for the one year contract... still paying back their "subsidation!" So, what the BIG deal whether I still own the phone or not--the contract obligations are still being met!... own the phone or not.
Like I said before, WHAT IF I broke the phone? What's the difference, I am still obligated to continue the contract--phone or no phone! AND, they still get their SUBSIDATION!
Geez... and, it's no different in USA!
Don't be so bloody stupid.
No one ever said it doesn't HAPPEN. Or are you blind?
What I CLEARLY said is that just because it goes on, unspoken, quite regular, doesn't help one little bit when it comes to wanting an unlock code from the network provider within year one.
May I suggest you re-read my post again?
And PLEASE - if you are in the USA, dont make the mistake of assuming that things must automatically be the same.
If you buy a car on H.P. (slightly different, admittedly), then you CANNOT automatically sell that car on in the UK, if you are still paying back the H.P. on it, and to do so can be illegal. That is a simple given fact that most people in the UK know about - so please don't assume for one second that things have to be the same.
If you want to settle this definitively, then feel free to ring OFCOM, and then post your response here for us to share. But I offer you don't need to, as I already posted what the situation is in the UK.
Besides, let me end by saying as LOUD as I can, as you seem to have missed it...
The day that the networks start giving out Unlock codes within the first 12 months, is the day our handsets suddenly cost 100% more money to obtain, even WITH a contract included.
YOU might want that mate...
But us sensible sorts in the rest of the world surely DON'T want to see an average cost increase of at least £100 on an XDA2 for example, just to cover those people who want an unlock code from the start.
There is a method already in existance for getting a phone network free...
It's called BUYING SIM FREE/UNLOCKED. And if you are going to tell me that it costs MUCH MORE to buy it that way, as opposed to on a contract, now why on earth might that be I wonder... now let me think...?
Oh dear me - not because on contract the networks heavily subsidise them by any chance - well there you go - would you look at that!
Sorry for being flippant, but isn't that what I already said in my post, and I now find I am repeating it here...
(And as an EDIT to this post, as I realised it hasn't sufficiently covered your post, let me remind you that one little detail - no matter whether you DO continue to pay your bills in respect of it, as the original owner. UNTIL the subsidisation period is met, even with you still happily paying for a phone you sold, then the networks do not give out the unlock code, and are within their rights under UK law to do so - so your argument has no merit, or productive outcome anyway - it doesn't make a jot of difference to the new owner anyway, until YOU have paid your 12 months - which is also covered in my post).
Shadamehr said:
Don't be so bloody stupid.
No one ever said it doesn't HAPPEN. Or are you blind?
What I CLEARLY said is that just because it goes on, unspoken, quite regular, doesn't help one little bit when it comes to wanting an unlock code from the network provider within year one.
May I suggest you re-read my post again?
And PLEASE - if you are in the USA, dont make the mistake of assuming that things must automatically be the same.
If you buy a car on H.P. (slightly different, admittedly), then you CANNOT automatically sell that car on in the UK, if you are still paying back the H.P. on it, and to do so can be illegal. That is a simple given fact that most people in the UK know about - so please don't assume for one second that things have to be the same.
If you want to settle this definitively, then feel free to ring OFCOM, and then post your response here for us to share. But I offer you don't need to, as I already posted what the situation is in the UK.
Besides, let me end by saying as LOUD as I can, as you seem to have missed it...
The day that the networks start giving out Unlock codes within the first 12 months, is the day our handsets suddenly cost 100% more money to obtain, even WITH a contract included.
YOU might want that mate...
But us sensible sorts in the rest of the world surely DON'T want to see an average cost increase of at least £100 on an XDA2 for example, just to cover those people who want an unlock code from the start.
There is a method already in existance for getting a phone network free...
It's called BUYING SIM FREE/UNLOCKED. And if you are going to tell me that it costs MUCH MORE to buy it that way, as opposed to on a contract, now why on earth might that be I wonder... now let me think...?
Oh dear me - not because on contract the networks heavily subsidise them by any chance - well there you go - would you look at that!
Sorry for being flippant, but isn't that what I already said in my post, and I now find I am repeating it here...
(And as an EDIT to this post, as I realised it hasn't sufficiently covered your post, let me remind you that one little detail - no matter whether you DO continue to pay your bills in respect of it, as the original owner. UNTIL the subsidisation period is met, even with you still happily paying for a phone you sold, then the networks do not give out the unlock code, and are within their rights under UK law to do so - so your argument has no merit, or productive outcome anyway - it doesn't make a jot of difference to the new owner anyway, until YOU have paid your 12 months - which is also covered in my post).
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The debate was a discussion of whether network should indeed allow unlock codes to be made available before the contract term--of which I replied.
My comments addressed your arrogant, definitive statements surrounding why carriers do not release unlock codes. That is, and what you believe to be, a dependency between contracts and subsidation. However, my opinion was simply the two are mutually exclusive.
Law is the law. While you might prefer subsidation and being locked into a carrier, others may prefer the contractless freedom--of which, some are available.
In addition, I think your condescending, rude and utterly poor communication skills are of an entirely new thread. I suggest a filter between your brain and keyboard as clearly your intuition to write without consideration is overwhelmingly powerful.
It is simply a discussion.
Best regards,
JS
Mmm - I've spent seven years as a die hard internet user, from forums, to newsgroups, to chat rooms and all in between.
I learned a LONG time ago, that the rudest, most arrogant and obnoxious posters are never the brainless ones, but rather, just like you so emphatically prove, the ones that try and hide their attacks behind smooth words, and flowing language.
Consequently, I'll grant you one thing mate... You probably the rudest and most offensive to post to me, in a wee while.
Another thing I learned a long time ago, is not to bother arguing.
I will simply say, the post, the entire thread, is there for all to see, and more importantly, all to judge as they see fit.
Whilst I have no reservation in saying this thread is indeed one of my more flippant posts, compared to the help I try and chip in with round here, I have no suspicions whatsoever that I will be the one judged to be the perpertrator round here - after all, I merely pointed things out. Its not MY fault that you don't LIKE what I had to report. Hey, I never even said that I LIKED it either - I'm merely messenger, pointing out a few home truths.
And not letting you get away with it that easily, I would just remind you that once again, if people DO wish to prevail themselves of a handset that is NOT network locked, the facility already exists for them to do so, and its called BUYING SIM FREE.
Or did you miss that yet again.
Making it as clear as possible for you, in case you haven't worked out yet that I have NO reason to defend the networks per se, nevertheless mate, if a Network heavily subsidises a handset, provided you agree to stick with them 12 months, not tariff change until after 4 (or 6) months, and not get an unlock code until after the twelve months, then it couldn't be simpler mate...
You either take it, or you leave it.
But if you go into it with open eyes, as you surely should, then you have no right, or place, or reason, to later post in here that you think its unfair that the network won't give you an unlock code in the first twelve months.
If you don't like that idea, you DON'T take out the contract mate.
ITS THAT SIMPLE.
And if you want to, you can then buy a SIM FREE handset.
But please, don't complain about the cost being too high then. Of course it is - that is the REAL price.
The price you are used to, on contract, is a heavily subsidised one, available to you provided you AGREE to certain conditions etc.
Note that word "agree". Because it means that once you accept it, then there is little point or purpose to whingeing on later, about something that you, as a consumer, of your own volition and free will, AGREED to.
Now please, my Email address should be in my profile.
If you want to flame me or troll me anymore - by all means do so by Email, and keep your incesant ramblings OFF this board.
Like I said - both our comments are there for all to see.
More importantly, they are there for others to judge.
I'm more than happy to let the members judge me.
I trust you are the same.
Now leave it please. (Or rather, troll and flame me as much as you feel the need to, but use my email in future instead of boring everyone else in this forum).
Shadamehr said:
Mmm - I've spent seven years as a die hard internet user, from forums, to newsgroups, to chat rooms and all in between.
I learned a LONG time ago, that the rudest, most arrogant and obnoxious posters are never the brainless ones, but rather, just like you so emphatically prove, the ones that try and hide their attacks behind smooth words, and flowing language.
Consequently, I'll grant you one thing mate... You probably the rudest and most offensive to post to me, in a wee while.
Another thing I learned a long time ago, is not to bother arguing.
I will simply say, the post, the entire thread, is there for all to see, and more importantly, all to judge as they see fit.
Whilst I have no reservation in saying this thread is indeed one of my more flippant posts, compared to the help I try and chip in with round here, I have no suspicions whatsoever that I will be the one judged to be the perpertrator round here - after all, I merely pointed things out. Its not MY fault that you don't LIKE what I had to report. Hey, I never even said that I LIKED it either - I'm merely messenger, pointing out a few home truths.
And not letting you get away with it that easily, I would just remind you that once again, if people DO wish to prevail themselves of a handset that is NOT network locked, the facility already exists for them to do so, and its called BUYING SIM FREE.
Or did you miss that yet again.
Making it as clear as possible for you, in case you haven't worked out yet that I have NO reason to defend the networks per se, nevertheless mate, if a Network heavily subsidises a handset, provided you agree to stick with them 12 months, not tariff change until after 4 (or 6) months, and not get an unlock code until after the twelve months, then it couldn't be simpler mate...
You either take it, or you leave it.
But if you go into it with open eyes, as you surely should, then you have no right, or place, or reason, to later post in here that you think its unfair that the network won't give you an unlock code in the first twelve months.
If you don't like that idea, you DON'T take out the contract mate.
ITS THAT SIMPLE.
And if you want to, you can then buy a SIM FREE handset.
But please, don't complain about the cost being too high then. Of course it is - that is the REAL price.
The price you are used to, on contract, is a heavily subsidised one, available to you provided you AGREE to certain conditions etc.
Note that word "agree". Because it means that once you accept it, then there is little point or purpose to whingeing on later, about something that you, as a consumer, of your own volition and free will, AGREED to.
Now please, my Email address should be in my profile.
If you want to flame me or troll me anymore - by all means do so by Email, and keep your incesant ramblings OFF this board.
Like I said - both our comments are there for all to see.
More importantly, they are there for others to judge.
I'm more than happy to let the members judge me.
I trust you are the same.
Now leave it please. (Or rather, troll and flame me as much as you feel the need to, but use my email in future instead of boring everyone else in this forum).
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Mr. Shadamehr,
Please don't patronize me with your comments like, "If you want to flame me or troll me anymore - by all means do so by Email, and keep your incesant ramblings OFF this board." If you review your postings above, it is your posts that "ramble" (i.e. are the longest!)
Last time I checked, freedom of speech is well within the bounds of this board. Your decisive statements, most of which are opinion-driven, are your position only. I'm not sure anyone complained of the cost of the PDA's--if you review the posts, no one actually did. I have plenty of income, so cost isn't an issue for me... so, why would you assume it does?
And, may I say, that this conversation will last as long as it needs to; again, isn't freedom awesome?
All I'm saying is: we agree law is the law. The debate lies in whether it is fair or not (personal opinions); as consumers, we have the ability to persuade the industry.
I'll refrain from the "are you STUPID mate?," "Or did you miss that yet again" statements as they are useless, condescending remarks that provide no value to the debate.
At what point do you believe you're more intelligent than the rest of us?
JS
Freedom of speech is indeed a truly wonderful thing.
But YOU were the one that said:
"In addition, I think your condescending, rude and utterly poor communication skills are of an entirely new thread."
Implying this should be kept well off the board, or at least, THIS thread!
But NOW you are saying:
"And, may I say, that this conversation will last as long as it needs to; again, isn't freedom awesome? "
I'm sorry, there's not a lot I or anyone else can do to help you, if you yourself are unsure as to what you want, and change your mind to suit, as and when you feel like it.
This whole thread was about Networks with-holding the Unlock code within the first twelve months.
I have just CHECKED again, and my first post on this topic, was an indication of the current position, based on my OWN issues I had, just like Cathy, and what OFTEL (as it was then), informed me was the law, and the issues around it.
I posted that information here, and as such, was only the messenger for what I am all too aware is unpopular knowledge. Nevertheless, I was nothing more than messenger.
Because that information was not popular reading however, you took it on board to somewhat hold me to blame, or at very least to turn the argument around onto me.
Suit yourself.
I end, after having demonstrated how you blow hot and cold in the same debate (a frightening quality indeed), simply by referring the Learned Gentleman to my last post, where I said:
"The members, ultimately will decide who they feel is right, and who is in the wrong..." (or similar)...
And in that respect nothing has changed.
Now, finally, you DID originally say you wanted this kept off the board, so I implore you to do so now.
But of course, you being you, you later contradicted yourself by then saying you will keep this going as long as you want, so I doubt you will leave it now.
Funny how you change your mind to suit yourself best.
But give the matter thought, because I really can't be bothered. You see:
"I learned a long time ago never to argue overly long with fools. All they ever do is bring you down to THEIR level, and of course once they manage that, they then go on to beat you with their vast experience over you they have in that role..."
And in an effort to reach closure, can I make something clear where your WHOLE debate is wrong...?
You say:
"All I'm saying is: we agree law is the law. The debate lies in whether it is fair or not (personal opinions); as consumers, we have the ability to persuade the industry."
Forgive me for completely correcting you...
This is Cathy's post.
And she called it:
"Are O2 acting legally in with-holding the unlock code"
Clear as day, a question on whether the issue was legallly correct or not. Nothing at all, as you seek to save grace by now implying, about the relative morals of it. I can't even see where that aspect creeps in other than your OWN posts.
And my response, pointing out the LEGAL position, was thus therefore a completely correct, and completely appropriate response to her thread.
You are therefore completely incorrect in saying this is a thread about the MORALS of it - it was a CLEAR question on the LEGALITIES of it.
If you wish to have a moral debate about the relative rights or wrongs of the netoworks doing this, then I would be HAPPY to join you in such a debate.
But as this would be a NEW aspect, then I would expect an apology from you (which there is no chance I will get), for you completely having wrongly judged me, by saying this debate was already one about morals.
It isn't - please read Cathy's title again.
My response to her, that you so deride and find worthy of argument, was thus totally appropriate - she asked if O2 were acting LEGALLY (it's in the title).
I replied explaining that they were - from my own experinces with OFTEL.
I trust, and I mean this fairly and not conflictory, that you now realise that I had done noting wrong. This was NOT a debate, as you so keep saying, about the MORALS of it.
That post would be entitled:
"Are O2 acting immorally or unreasonably by with-holding the unlock code"
And in that post, your comments would be far more correct then, and appropriate, and I couldn't fault them half as much.
But, er, this is NOT that thread though.
This is the "Are O2 acting LEGALLY..." one.
Sorry for keep repeating it.
Well, that gave me a laugh during lunch time....
Related
will this ever happen!!!!!!!!!
well considering that the imei is the identifier for a mobile phone i dont think you will ever get to change it, and if you could, why would you want to?, the only reason someone would want to change an imei on a mobile is if its a stolen mobile and that person wanted to change the identifier *imei* so as not to get caught...
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think it ever will!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
never say never. i guess the imei is just a few bits on an unknown adress in one of these flash memory chips inside. what i am trying to say: the imei is nothing hard coded in the device, it is programmable. for mobile phones there are a lot of hacking tools for changing the imei e.g. of nokia phones, philips, sagem etc.
but i agree: what would be the sense of changing imei? covering a stolen phone from being identified and possibly tracked?
greetings
peter
There are legitimate reasons for wanting to change one's IMEI. For instance: if I were to use pepaid cards for multiple identities which I wish to remain separate towards the state, then I must use many phones, or change IMEI. And if you think resisting the eyes of a state is somehow evil, then please consider not all nation states are equally friendly at any given time. Union organizers and human rights activists in many countries stand to lose if we only associate their technical needs with crime and terrorism.
Excellent point of view Peter!
So I wonder which Nas is: Union organiser or human rights activist?
IMHO, changing IMEI number is something that will help more criminals than secretive activists, and it shouldn't be encouraged. Of course, just MHO.
Ha Neither!
But what are the chances that a simple minded phone thief will actually have the intelligence to join a form and ask, die hard users if they could unlock the phone he has stolen from probably another die hard user.
We all have our reasons, and it makes me smile, when every time there is a chat about changing this or that on a product that people assume the worth or blindly give their assumptions on the reasons!
I remember back in the early 90s when people like myself were hacking the Amiga games and putting them in the public forum, it was the same thickle minded people that said we were all gangsters raising money to have drug parties in Europe.
The reason i wanted to unlock my IMEI is simple, the prices in the UK are far too high, so on a trip to Singapore i brought one, boxed receipt ect!
It worked fine out there an no matter what i do with it here its not working, so i have flushed it, and changed various settings and unlocked it but it has never worked as a phone.
This is just another throw of the dice.
So will all the people thinking im a freaking mugger or two bit crim, please stay away when the grown folks are talking!!!!!!
Nas said:
But what are the chances that a simple minded phone thief will actually have the intelligence to join a form and ask, die hard users if they could unlock the phone he has stolen from probably another die hard user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The organised gangs of criminals who deal in stolen handsets are very cunning, and far from simple minded. The petty criminal who snatches a phone may well not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he isn't the one who does the real business and makes all the profit.
Right now I would say that a fixed IMEI number is the best deterrent we have against large-scale phone crime, and I'd be happy to keep it that way.
Agreed the big fish are very smart, however the smartest thing to do with a stolen hand set is simply take it out of the country it was stolen in.
Why go through the need of replacing IMEI numbers and possibly bringing attention to yourself in chat rooms, when you can get on a plane and sell the phone as perfectly working.
these gangs make big money, and i agree any method stopping them doing what they do, especially in light of the recent killing in the UK is a good thing.
What gets me is when, guys like me ask a question, for a valid reason and a chat room full of people that most probably all hack for fun, turn around not even question but put foward opinions on my motives, and liken me to a mugger!
Did you buy the phone brand new in Singapore? I cant think of any reason for the phone not to work here unless it was previously blocked here in UK and found its way out east. Have you tried different sims from different providers? What do you hear/see when you try to place a call?
Nas said:
Ha Neither!
But what are the chances that a simple minded phone thief will actually have the intelligence to join a form and ask, die hard users if they could unlock the phone he has stolen from probably another die hard user.
We all have our reasons, and it makes me smile, when every time there is a chat about changing this or that on a product that people assume the worth or blindly give their assumptions on the reasons!
I remember back in the early 90s when people like myself were hacking the Amiga games and putting them in the public forum, it was the same thickle minded people that said we were all gangsters raising money to have drug parties in Europe.
The reason i wanted to unlock my IMEI is simple, the prices in the UK are far too high, so on a trip to Singapore i brought one, boxed receipt ect!
It worked fine out there an no matter what i do with it here its not working, so i have flushed it, and changed various settings and unlocked it but it has never worked as a phone.
This is just another throw of the dice.
So will all the people thinking im a freaking mugger or two bit crim, please stay away when the grown folks are talking!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nas said:
will this ever happen!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It happened a long time ago. This forum is not the right place to search for.
I can sell you IMEI resetting tool which works fine for both XDAs. It doesn't change your IMEI to desired one, but replaces your number with 0000-s.
Get your resetting tool today only for 99,99$! PM me anyway!
-if you want to be anonymous, you are using a prepaid card
-but, with an imsi catcher anyone (who does own such a device) can listen to your calls
-the guy behind the catcher does some filtering regarding the sim-number "guess" - and also the imei of your device
-so your are "transparent" with your prepayd-cards and also your imei.
-card changing is not that big problem, but doing this with new phones every 2 weeks or so is not fine.
-this cardf/imei changing does not regard only illegal activitys/criminals.
-imsi catcers are not only used by police, etc. - also from criminals, so it is an useable part of keeping your secrets (think about an top manager, ....)
if anyone is interested:
a imsi-catcher does nothing as simulating an gsm-Cell - doing some forwarding to the real network.
but:
the imsi-catcher doe have more tx-power, as other cells in the area, so the phone connects to the catcher.
the imsi-catcher uses not encrypted communication witch the phone, so the calls can be logged without any problems. (i only know the siemes S4 (S10to?), telling you, if the communication is not encrypted)
sorry for my bad english
It will be changed if you change your mazard board,,,,,,
hello lads, wish everybody is fine and doin well, ive been doing some intelligence and detective work around around the weired fact that IMEI check are the only guyz around with an unlock solution for the UNIVERSAL.
what i accumilated was kindda weired. according to information gathered from this website and specially from my favourite two super stars (BUZZ lightyear and Mchinegod) those legendary stars got it all fine lolll.
what i found is.
IMEI check has some source in HTC inovations in taiwan.
this source has probably supplied em classified Hardware Software information on how to unlock the Universal.
second speculation is that they also has a source that has unrestricted acess to the IMEI-Unlock code database. and he supplies them the assigned codes for some percentage from every unlock they make.
in both cases there is an insider who must ve supplied critical info on raming this device into the corners.
just for the info, i mentioned before that i had a weired problem and that is i wanted to unlock my MDA pro and T-mobile the netherlands told me that my IMEI doesnt exist in thier database or its not a T-mobile universal varient. however i managed my way in contacting someone in HTC and my honest source tracked my IMEI back to T-mobile the netherlands, i offered this source paying him money to gimme the unlock code but he refused in great honesty and said, the entire HTC cant supply me these codes not for free not for a fee, acoording to a business agreement with the T-Mobile. after a while, i got an email from T-Mobile telling me that they have my Unlock code right now and they are ready to supply me the code for like 70 euros or something,,
that shows that there are some leaks around between HTC and its business partners and, our freiends at IMEI check, has foudn some way to access these leaks and make some money.
wish i explained my theory
best regards
shady
why dont they offer then an online unlock... you send them imei number and money... they send you unlock code....
there is an other way they do it
€70 is much less than I was first asked for to have an Unlock code. It was more like €175, and that was for a little Samsung phone before T-Mobile took over One2One.
After you've been using the device for 1 year, your first year contract is finished. After this first year contract, the Universal belongs to you - NOT T-Mobile - and you are therefore legally entitled to do anything you want to with it, including unlocking it. T-Mobile CANNOT legally deny you this right - if they could, the central IMEI databases which disallow network access from stolen devices would simply disallow access to other networks from your IMEI.
thas exactly the point
asking for physical acess to the machine while still sayint that they will not open it and hat all stuff will be made through cable. sooo i think this provides perfect diversion.
Yeah, I think I said in an earlier post that the whole thing about 'sending your Universal in because physical access is required' is a load of bullcrap. It's as shady said, they have an insider at HTC which really makes me question the ethics of their dealings in the first place. I don't think I like these guys very much.
I think you forgot something US (imei-check):
We killed JFK, we are green and we come from Mars. Somewhere on other forum I saw that someone says that we like to collect the MDA PRO's. Yes we love to swim in them . We are aliens and we like that.
These declarations are as true as your conspiracy theory.
WE HAVE NO connection with HTC or any other manufacture or operator. We are just a bunch of programmers which like to work till late not to stay and see if anyone comes with anything for free for us.
This forum should be called Warez and freeware searchers since here all you can read is where to download such software and were to get such thing for free. Only a handful of people from here does developing, rest just a bunch of beggars (sorry for the previos spelling mistake, but hey I'm not a native speaker ).
Florin Mandache
Director of MIGsofT LTD (imei-check.co.uk)
Imei Check
I resent your comments regarding the rest of us no-hopers being 'baggers'.
If it wasn't for forums like this you guys wouldn't have any business cos the vast majority of us would have returned our pda phones due to lack of network support.
I have no qualms paying for unlocking but the networks take the mick by making you wait weeks for the unlock codes.
I dare say you guys have learnt from this forum and if you didnt charge 50 squid for a universal unlock code you would get more respect.
We all have a part to play mate so just remember this:
Without consumers(or baggers as you like to call us) you would have to latch onto somting else so give us a break !!!
i vote with jonboy. if u dont respect this forum why are you on it,,, i have no idea actually + if you think my claims are wrong, there is no need to insult all of us, my friend the way you answered is a hard proof that at least some of my claims have taken a byte at the neck of the truth.
anyway thanks for calling us baggers, but again as jonboy says, these baggers are the guyz making business for you and giving you money. so i wont call em baggers cuz if its not for them you would ve been a bagger.
you IMEI guyz are asking for astaggering 74 E to unlock well i have to mention that T-mobile unlocked my MDA pro for 70 euros which is still 4euros less than what you asked + i dotn have to send it all the way to another country or stuff.
again thanks dear brother for insulting the forum and its people.
best regards
shady
florin_m said:
I think you forgot something US (imei-check):
We killed JFK, we are green and we come from Mars. Somewhere on other forum I saw that someone says that we like to collect the MDA PRO's. Yes we love to swim in them . We are aliens and we like that.
These declarations are as true as your conspiracy theory.
WE HAVE NO connection with HTC or any other manufacture or operator. We are just a bunch of programmers which like to work till late not to stay and see if anyone comes with anything for free for us.
This forum should be called Warez and freeware searchers since here all you can read is where to download such software and were to get such thing for free. Only a handful of people from here does developing, rest just a bunch of beggars (sorry for the previos spelling mistake, but hey I'm not a native speaker ).
Florin Mandache
Director of MIGsofT LTD (imei-check.co.uk)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Florin, you are a fool.
'nuff said.
florin_m said:
I think you forgot something US (imei-check):
We killed JFK, we are green and we come from Mars. Somewhere on other forum I saw that someone says that we like to collect the MDA PRO's. Yes we love to swim in them . We are aliens and we like that.
Florin Mandache
Director of MIGsofT LTD (imei-check.co.uk)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you really who you say you are? If you are, you must be about ten years old because that statement is so immature, not fit for a grown mature adult.
BTW, where are all the warez on this site? I haven't seen any, or am I just blind, naive or both? We all visit this forum so that we can "hack" some the system parameters of our devices to enhance them and give them "personalities" we like or prefer to have.
actually, i think this florin is just a very erogant man, i still am feeling offended that he called us beggers. do everybody really has to be a developer. well mr wiered headless brainless, when u go to a Dr to take out the permenant disease out of your head do u become a begger, when you go to psyciatrist to take the wiered erogance of your soul do u become a begger, so if you think that when u go to a pro that well help you get rid of all of these wiered stuff in your miniature nature that will make you a bagger, then we might also be considered bagger. and by the way plz when u speak to people again try to get first some schooling second learn some ethics
again lads, just think deeply if our ideas on this forum about how IMEI check got thier hands on the unlocking codes are wrong, what would piss thier boss off, hehehe if someone said soemthing thas not right about me i wouldnt really start a fight on someones wrong calims, but if he uncovered my business then ill fight to recover it back, even by insulting people heheh
best regards
shady
shadykw said:
my friend the way you answered is a hard proof that at least some of my claims have taken a byte at the neck of the truth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you lost me here - why you are so sure you are right just because someone responded to you? No offence, but what you said is questionable in the first place... and i simply cannot understand what has the pricing got to do with this? it can be 100 euros - so what?? WHY are you so unhappy?
and generally he was right, most people do not produce anything new for the device, the max we do is copy-paste. Its the truth - why are you complaining - what have you done?
btw, i have got nothing to do with them, never used the service and do not know anyone there in any way... so that you will not say i am from their company too, just because i have a different opinion to yours. And it will not prove that you are 100% right - i hope this is clear at least.
im sorry guyz, i aint no dectaort here and ieve never said im right i just speculated some stuff, and to be honest as i said, i have no proof, its just speculation, and im not complaining about the price the market is open, u dont like someones service, take another. and i have no offense against anybody as well i havent attacked him, it was just someone that began attacking all the forum not me only. and again, im not so sure and im not running an invistigation here buddy, and im usually dotn speak so much here in the forum, but i just dotn wanna get kicked whenever im gonna say soemthing someone is gonan call me a bagger. and yes not everybody is doign something cuz so simply not everybody is a developer, does the fact that im in another field rather than IT or software development must make me shut up and not even talk.
well guyz im sorry anyway if i attacked any body or offended anyone without intentions
again im sorry for that
best regards
shady
igs said:
shadykw said:
my friend the way you answered is a hard proof that at least some of my claims have taken a byte at the neck of the truth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you lost me here - why you are so sure you are right just because someone responded to you? No offence, but what you said is questionable in the first place... and i simply cannot understand what has the pricing got to do with this? it can be 100 euros - so what?? WHY are you so unhappy?
and generally he was right, most people do not produce anything new for the device, the max we do is copy-paste. Its the truth - why are you complaining - what have you done?
btw, i have got nothing to do with them, never used the service and do not know anyone there in any way... so that you will not say i am from their company too, just because i have a different opinion to yours. And it will not prove that you are 100% right - i hope this is clear at least.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well said that man
The rest of you n00b-muppets need to shut the hell up. I've known Florin for quite some time now and back in the early days he was of great help to the Windows Mobile community and still is today. To be quite honest, he's right, the majority of you are all beggers. You all want something for nothing. Why should someone break their back to make YOU happy? What have YOU done for the community? Why should anyone spend their precious time helping YOU when all YOU do is leech information?
You want the "truth" behind imei-check? They spend alot of time working on devices to get them unlocked. Sometimes they kill the devices. Said devices cost money. Then when all the hard work is over and they start to earn a reward from their work, some jumped up little prick decides to reverse engineer the software and sell it on ebay. Thats why you have to send Universal's in to them.
I would like to react to this
that shows that there are some leaks around between HTC and its business partners and, our freiends at IMEI check, has foudn some way to access these leaks and make some money.
And please do not take this like "racism" or anything else.
HTC is a Taiwanese Company POINT ! In Taiwan China Korea (Much difficult in Japan) Money is the most important thing ! I was living Before in HK, and has often be oblige to deal with the mainland but the things is that Money can buy anything over there or allow you a lot of things. I had last year a "Weird" problem with a Taiwanese PC, Pocket PC, smartphone manufacturer. Well I was dealing for a potential of 300 Units (PC) and things were going well at the begning until... they bypass me and contacted my client to make business with them.
This is how things work there and will always work.
If you take for example Korea... nobody follow any contract, in Fact in business matter it works like this, you firs sign the contract, and then you discuss about the term of the contract. If for example you want to "punish" a Korean company you just has to force them to follow a contract (this is the worst punition for them)
Once again, there are no racism in my story I am living in Asia since a long time now, my wife is Korean/Japanese and I had the chance to live, before I met my wife, with a Chinese lady (Be quiet on this one ok )
Absolute bollocks :roll:
Did you even read the rest of the posts here or did you just read the first one and reply straight away?
How exactly does this show that there are leaks? Where's your proof? One dumbass hatches a theory and you take it as gospel :roll:
nedge2k said:
Absolute bollocks :roll:
Did you even read the rest of the posts here or did you just read the first one and reply straight away?
How exactly does this show that there are leaks? Where's your proof? One dumbass hatches a theory and you take it as gospel :roll:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just share experience, that all
hey guyz, again ive said there is no proof these are just speculations, and again im not a damn developer, as far as i remeber ihavent insulted anyone, would you plz choose a better language describing the people on this forum,, if you think that we are all beggars, fine dont be around us, but plz just stop this insulting. and why are my words so painfull, i just said what i though nothing more. specially that in various threads in this forum, some guyz managed to get the codes from HTC so im not totally inventing a story, i think prooving me wrong would be much easier that saying all of this, jesus why is insulting so easy
florin_m
A year ago i unlocked more than 20 phones (s100 and 9090) with imei-check's help so don't say we all beggars here.
Would there be an online service soon to unlock the MDA-PRO? Because sending your MDA to England isn't accepltable for everyone and i really need to use the service quite often.
@florin_m
hi florin,
i seriously doubt, that you've programmed an unlocker for Universal, just few days after it was released to the market.
Either you have/had:
1. engineering prototypes with certain bootloader functions opened
2. access to special service SD cards
3. bootloader passwords
4. access to IMEI/lock database
i'd say 2. or 4. is right
BTW, why do you call your company IMEI-CHECK?
Wouldn't it be more apropriate to call it unlock-programming ?
IMEI-CHECK is invoking a vision of checking IMEI against a list or such...
buzz
Hello,
Is there a way to change the imei number on an HTC device using freely available tools?
I have down-graded the ROM of my device and its no longer CID-locked.
Then I tried to use Rascal's tool (based on his post which says that you don't need credits to change IMEI), but apparently while you indeed don't need credits, you still need the dongle.
Ordering a dongle seems like a rather inconvenient method, I would have ordered his/her tool already if it was available for sale online, but a dongle seems rather odd in this time and age of purely electronic commerce.
Can aWizard, or any of the other tools available somewhere help to manually change the IMEI?
And if you're wondering WHY I need to change the IMEI:
1) I live in Turkey
2) The administration in this country decided it was better to inconvenience legitimate users of cell phones acquired abroad, rather than actually muster the resources to find and prosecute the people who really do steal, clone, and smuggle phones illegally into the country
3) This amazing administration has just shut off my phone with a 24 hour (how gracious is that!) warning
4) Being a non-paranoid person (BIG mistake for Turkey), I don't keep my purchase receipts etc., so I have no way to prove I have legally purchased this phone, except for a credit card transaction and online receipt, which they don't have the "brains" to figure out
Yes, yes - I know I need to upgrade my country. Sadly, I don't know of any other countries which would just let me immigrate into. So, if anybody here has ideas/procedures for fixing an IMEI without using commercial tools (or by using electronically delivered commercial tools), PLEASE let me know.
Oh, and next time I'm abroad, I'm FOR SURE getting a foreign line, and using that in Turkey to roam, instead of dealing with this despotic state nonsense.
u can simply check this topic http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=54910
or use this function http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php instead of opening a new thread
Dear Raskal,
I've already read those threads, but I was looking for an electronic solution.
As I have already PMed you, I am willing to pay you $100 for a one-time solution to change my fixed IMEI so you are sure there is no risk of piracy.
I was unable to find a secure reseller to ship your physical dongle product to Turkey, therefore I am forced to seek electronic alternatives.
mimarsinan said:
Dear Raskal,
I've already read those threads, but I was looking for an electronic solution.
As I have already PMed you, I am willing to pay you $100 for a one-time solution to change my fixed IMEI so you are sure there is no risk of piracy.
I was unable to find a secure reseller to ship your physical dongle product to Turkey, therefore I am forced to seek electronic alternatives.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u can send me payment by western union or paypal and i can send you one. 100 usd is okay for one jafwm incl dhl to turkey. it can arrive in 3-4 day after payment. But you must make sure that your device is supported and that your device is CID unlocked. If your device is cid locked it will cost 25 euro more if you can not find a free cid unlocker.
Dear Raskal,
I've already downgraded my ROM and cid-unlocked my device, as I explained the post above. In fact I've even customized the startup screen :lol: Everything but change the IMEI. The device is a Wizard and I have also used your tool - it works fine until hitting the "Write to SD Card" stage, at which point it bails out with a "check hardware" error, because the dongle is missing. So I presume the procedure works fully.
I've already responded to you in a PM, explaining I am willing to order from a guaranteed local reseller, or direct from you. I am happy to try either option.
However, I thought you might be happier too, if you pocketed the entire $100 for the tool, instead of shelling out half of that money for DHL shipping to Turkey. Honestly, that works better for me too, because I can instantly unlock my phone, AND I don't have to worry about the parcel getting stuck in customs, AND I don't wait for physical shipment. This is certainly something that would benefit both of us.
I suspect you are concerned about piracy. Well, I am a shareware developer by trade, and I understand how you feel. However I'm sure if somebody out there wants to crack JAFwm, (s)he can crack it with or without the dongle. Nothing seems uncrackable - please correct me if I am wrong, and the dongle provides you with some sort of extreme protection.
My original post here to this forum was also trying to see if there is a way to unlock this phone without paying for tools. I have tried all freely available tools and gotten nowhere, sadly. For instance one tool looked promising, but I don't have a USB-to-serial cable, so I am totally locked out of it. Getting such a cable also seems like a pretty hard-core task, at least in Turkey!
At this point, I've spent three days on this issue with zero resolution, I have been greatly inconvenienced by my phone being offline, and I just want to get it unlocked ASAP. Like I said, I am happy to pay you, and look forward to getting your response. I hope you have a reliable Turkish reseller, or are willing to ship to me direct.
And I'm sure if you consider a purely electronic solution for the future, your users will appreciate your products even more, and the promise and effect of instant gratification will surely boost your sales, offsetting any possibe damages caused by piracy. Its better to sell 100 products and lose 10 to piracy, than sell just 50 products and have no piracy, in my opinion.
Respectfully,
Mimar
Obviously Mimar has no idea of the realities of phone unlocking software! It's very cut-throat and any and all possible protection is used to defend a product against hackers :roll:
Maybe once a handset is 5+ years old perhaps?...or then again...
Richard
Competition is always cut-throat. Products don't sell because they are hard to crack, they sell because they are easy to use, and easy to buy.
mimarsinan said:
Competition is always cut-throat. Products don't sell because they are hard to crack, they sell because they are easy to use, and easy to buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not with phone unlocking. I think Raskal know's a bit more about his market than you or I ever would....his products sell becuase he offers features no-one else does and they are hard to crack - if they were easy to crack they wouldn't sell....
Usually phone unlockers ( furious boxes etc ) can cost $500 - $1000 so they are used to protecting their software via hardware. Maybe look into it further before talking about what you know little?
Richard
Richard -
Please try to keep the discussion on-topic and professional. I'm sure people visit this forum to find solutions to their problems, and not to hear what you think about how much/little others know.
Software companies sell products on the Internet that are priced far in excess of $1000, which you quoted as a high bound below. You can also find cracks for those products on most pirate sites. Having a crack for a product indicates that there is demand for it - this should not be viewed as something negative. In fact, if you cannot find a crack for a product, that usually means there isn't much demand for it.
People often send me cracks that have been released (by God knows whom) for my products, expecting me to "fix" my products so they are no longer crackable. I am always pleased to see these cracks - its concrete proof that there is solid demand for my product. And instead of spending time and resources to "fix" my products in this way, I'd rather add new features and improve usability, so the dollars I get actually make my products better, and my users happier.
Do cracks lower my sales? Absolutely not! People who don't have the money (or ethics) to buy my software won't buy it anyway. Those customers are already lost - why worry about them?
I'm still waiting to hear from Raskal about payment instructions using PayPal...if Raskal had online delivery, I would have ordered two days ago. That's money Raskal is losing on a daily basis from customers like me from all over the world, except lost customers don't usually write about their situation and explain themselves. They just walk away.
Raskal isn't a reseller, he appoints agents worldwide as the sales of his other products are so high...
And as for going off topic - looks who's talking. :evil:
$1000 for phone unlock software is the high end. As the people who use it generate $25 - $50 each time they charge a customer of course there is going to be people who want to crack it and make that money for no outlay - it isn't simply warez cracking that is the issue here like you say, it is a tool for earning large revenues, so they are more likely to protect it with hardware or any method they can - not only to protect their sales but also the sales / earning potential of those who have bought their products - once the unlocking product is free, everyone has it, and prices the people then charge end users for unlocking fall, so the people who paid a lot for it loose out. Raskal actively stops this. -
hence my explaining that your begging for a purely electronic software solution to your problem is going to fall on deaf ears. OOoooh, offer him $100! He really needs that (little) money....
'but I promise I won't let a Russian team crack the code, honest Raskal'...
yeah, he'll fall for that one. :wink:
If he sends you one directly rather than through his network of resellers he is doing you a favour. Don't be so rude and impatient - if you need it quickly perhaps contact him via his own website rather than this one?
Richard
Of course, you do realize you're hurting your own credibility by your unwarranted language and accusations, right?
I've pointed out problems in Raskal's fulfillment which are very likely hampering his sales. Why someone would want to slow his business down in this way is beyond me, but I don't call them names or try to discredit them :roll:
As for the objections you state below, which comprise the only sensible parts of your post, they do not stand up to scrutiny. Raskal could improve his sales model and sell direct to the end-user, eliminating the middlemen and dramatically increasing his profits. I have already explained why I do not consider cracking a legitimate concern.
I have no business with you, although for some reason you have appointed yourself Raskal's advocate. :lol: Forgive me if I don't indulge in more replies to you on this thread. Well, I guess my business practices give me better things to do, after all! :lol:
Well frankly I'm glad no-one is helping you with that attitude. :lol:
You have no idea about Raskal's business. I have some idea. I'm sure he's very happy the way he is without 'instant experts' such as yourself coming along and telling him how to run it.
'cracking is not a legitimate concern'.
Ok.... :roll:
I bet Raskal will be glad to know you think that too when he's deciding whether to do your software only solution.... :wink:
Richard
Chillax people.
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mimarsinan: As much as I sympathise, I don't understand why someone in Turkey doesn't just buy Raskal's unlocker and capture an enormous captive market. You can unlock all the phones you want, for whatever price you want. For that market, surely any price for his unlocker would be reasonable? Better do it before the next guy does, eh?
There are software only solutions, but AFAIK they have not been made available for legal reasons.
This is a friendly board, even if I have to beat it into you with a stick
Be nice, or the thread gets locked.
V
Hi Vijay,
Thanks for stepping in.
I have no interest in unlocking other people's phones. I just need a solution that unlocks my phone, in a timely manner. Raskal has yet to provide me with ordering instructions for his solution, and as I've already said, I'm not too excited about the shipping delay and potential problems in customs.
Are you aware of any other solutions I can try in the meantime? XDA Developers have a solution that requires a usb to serial cable, which I cannot find here either. I even studied the source code of their VB program, and tried to gather the same data from the device ROM using EXEs that ship with aWizard...but either the addresses are wrong in the VB program for my device, or I'm missing something (quite likely).
I appreciate any and all assistance you can provide in this regard - I just want this phone unlocked, I don't mind paying for it, but while I'm waiting for a response from the dealer, I'll keep trying to figure a way on my own. That way at least if I come up with something, I can give it back to the community
I will pay up to $1,500 for the development of a free IMEI restore tool under GNU/GPL.
Please see:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=58095
for details.
Make your bid today - get paid for helping people, get paid for doing the work you love, get paid for advancing the state of freely available tools.
Note: Because this is work-for-hire, the employer assumes all legal risk associated with the project, and the employee is free from any risk of litigation. Please review the topic post for details.
mimarsinan said:
Make your bid today - get paid for helping people, get paid for doing the work you love, get paid for advancing the state of freely available tools.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get paid NOWHERE NEAR what you will get fined for breaking the law in whatever country you live in....
Get paid VERY LITTLE whilst you are locked up for 3 years in prison washing shirts / stampling out licence plates etc etc.
IMEI manipulation, in the UK at least, carries a 3yr prison sentence and £10,000 fine.
Richard
i have an m1000 spv, in trying to unlock the phone, i run an exe program. in doing this it changed my imei, witch has kill the phone part. i have the old, imei that was on the phone. is there a way that i !!! can change it back.
what do i need to buy to do it
sorry if i have not asked in the right part i am new to forums
PK Please help!!!!!!
Richard,
I've got to say your graphic descriptions of the "hard prison life" are very rich. Just wanted to ask you some questions, so I can better understand what's involved here. Obviously you know a lot more than I do.
First, a backgrounder; obviously your good buddy Raskal has already built a working solution, he even SELLS it for PROFIT, so surely, not only is he in jail by now (assuming you're being serious in your post), he's also suffering a really bad penalty since he made profit from this illegal venture.
So, how many years does Raskal have left on his 3 year sentence?
Did you see one of the license plates that he has made so far?
Or is he washing shirts, ironing them instead?
Did Raskal pay his 10,000 fine yet? Did he still have a profit remaining after paying that? Has he sold enough dongles to cover his 3 years in jail? Maybe if he had electronically sold his product?
These are just some questions so our readers can put into better context your defamation of my posts.
You obviously have some sort of commercial interest to protect - why else would you be bothering people who have nothing other than good intentions in mind, with a non-commercial project on top of that?
I have posted an interesting project, called for developers, and even offered payment for their time. I'm really sorry if that hurts your commercial interests, but you don't really have many options at this point:
o You can walk away, swallowing your pride
o You can try to improve the fulfillment process for your buddy's tools, so interest in this free project lessens
o You can continue defaming, bringing in more eyeballs to our case
Given your history, I'm pretty sure you won't be swallowing your pride and walking away. Careful - anything else hurts you even more.
'Given my history'? What a knob you are! Anyone in sales is bound to have people *****ing, and the only problems I have are with items that go abroad....hmmm, funny that.
http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=fluffcat1&ssPageName=STRK:ME:UFS
There's my ebay reputation - unique feedback - 1895, total positive - 2455, negative - 8.
Eight negative. Out of 2455. Makes me a crook does it? Winker.
You're the one making yourself look petty bringing up other threads you have no knowledge about and mentioning reputations - I have tried to help those people who have thrown it back at me so screw 'em - and it has no bearing on my comments on your actions in this thread despite you thinking it affects my 'reputation' - how can my fair comment 'hurts me even more.'? . How very pathetic of you.
You are the one who has made it personal, attacking both Raskal and I with no basis other than that he will not subvert his distribution process and cut out his middlemen just for you because you ewant him to, or write a special application just for you, and that I do not agree with you. It's no surprise no one wants to help you. This project is doomed frankly.
I have bought 1 jafWM from a UK reseller. I have had 2 email corresspondance with Raskal when the unlocking was first launched for jafWM ( it didn't do it out of the box) and I know a little of the unlocking industry and how it works.
jafWM is not aimed at 'hobbyist' phone unlockers or those who want to use it once or twice - it is a solution designed to make phone flashing ( and now unlocking) quick and painless for those not used to flashing HTC devices i.e market stall unlockers etc, and compared to some other devices it is relatively inexpensive. It is cheap as the device out of the box will not do anything other than flash files overriding CID, unlcoking needs a server credit at a cost of €25 IIRC.
If you wanted to flash your Nokia, would you pay € 500 for a furious box that could also change the IMEI? No. You'd get someone else with the box to do it...
Raskal actively promotes the free solutions for one-off unlocking use, and supports this site, but jafWM is desgned to save time and make flashing easier without reg edits etc to save time FOR THE PROFESSIONAL.
I have nothing to do with Raskal and no revenue to protect as you claim, I am merely stating my opinion to counter your ridiculus posts slagging him and other 'commercial' solutions.
IMEI manipulation is illlegal in most European countries. Raskal is not in a european country. The fact his device can do this does not render having it illegal. Using it to manipulate IMEI's is illegal, possession is not. It's his risk to develop the tool, but as all the other products he makes and sells for 'normal' phones can manipulate 'corrupt' IMEI's ( a handy euphemism) he obviously doesn't care as no-one has bothered him yet.
You say removing sim locks is illegal - IT ISN'T - it is perfectly legal and absolutley nothing to do with IMEI changing. You're just showing your lack of understanding of what you are talking about.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2002/20020031.htm
"1 Re-programming mobile telephone etc.
(1) A person commits an offence if-
(a) he changes a unique device identifier, or
(b) he interferes with the operation of a unique device identifier.
(2) A unique device identifier is an electronic equipment identifier which is unique to a mobile wireless communications device.
(3) But a person does not commit an offence under this section if-
(a) he is the manufacturer of the device, or
(b) he does the act mentioned in subsection (1) with the written consent of the manufacturer of the device.
(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable-
(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both, or
(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to a fine or to both.
2 Possession or supply of anything for re-programming purposes
(1) A person commits an offence if-
(a) he has in his custody or under his control anything which may be used for the purpose of changing or interfering with the operation of a unique device identifier, and
(b) he intends to use the thing unlawfully for that purpose or to allow it to be used unlawfully for that purpose.
(2) A person commits an offence if-
(a) he supplies anything which may be used for the purpose of changing or interfering with the operation of a unique device identifier, and
(b) he knows or believes that the person to whom the thing is supplied intends to use it unlawfully for that purpose or to allow it to be used unlawfully for that purpose.
(3) A person commits an offence if-
(a) he offers to supply anything which may be used for the purpose of changing or interfering with the operation of a unique device identifier, and
(b) he knows or believes that the person to whom the thing is offered intends if it is supplied to him to use it unlawfully for that purpose or to allow it to be used unlawfully for that purpose.
(4) A unique device identifier is an electronic equipment identifier which is unique to a mobile wireless communications device.
(5) A thing is used by a person unlawfully for a purpose if in using it for that purpose he commits an offence under section 1.
(6) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable-
(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both, or
(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to a fine or to both. "
Changing the IMEI to disguise the origin of a phone is illegal in the UK and most other european countries that I have looked into.
Your developers should go into this with their eyes open - they are producing a tool to commit an offence which has severe penalities in this country and others to deter mobile phone theft. If they can in any way be traced by IP / bank account / registration etc then they should be wary.
How do they know you aren't just bait from law enforcement to get the underground hackers prosecuted? Look how many posts you have made - most are begging for a software IMEI changer - there are already free software unlockers for the wizard.
p.s when I bought jafWM it couldn't unlock phones or 'repair' IMEIs so as I haven't updated my software I am not committing any offence, and it is not jafWM's primary purpose although it is sure to drive sales ;-)
Richard
mimarsinan said:
Well, I am a shareware developer by trade,...
Respectfully,
Mimar
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just forgot your home page, can you say me again where it was?
Hello,
I just want to know since there was a set of prizes worth $4 million that I think was being sponsored by Samsung how much does XT a development make every year? Obviously you are under no obligation to tell me since it's probably a private firm or maybe ohm by a larger firm. I only ask because most of the money this page because the developers store their hard earned software here and the forms that relate to them and they publish the results of their builds to these forums.
If I don't have quite right please still free to correct me. Please send a no circumstances at defensively and trying to lose your cool. We live in the capitalistic country thank God at least for now until socialism tries to take over. Or continues to try to take over.
Great Darlas I just wondered if any of the money was shared with the developers make the site possible. Are any or all of the developers actually paid by the proceeds from the site? Is any type of compensation whatsoever to the developers for their hard work that make some money that is generated by ADS that the owners of the site profit from? With just for now a set of $4 million in prizes I would think that the amount of money that the site generates is astronomical. By the way where do I sign up for these prizes see in all the videos?
If the developers are not making any money from this, G is the way that they can be made possible?
This is a perfect site for making money because of all the ads in the fact that people come here almost every day for a new set of operating systems to put on the phone, and that the source code from one phone can be used for many phones in general, well at least 60 to 80% or more. Feel free to correct my figures.
Go
Btw your friends does not work very well with voice dictation
Especially with the program called Swype. Example if I
say period it's supposed to put a dot, if I say question mark it should put a?
I wouldn't complain except that you need your text boxes are extremely hard because we're you touch is not where the cursor goes. This makes editing impossible especially at the end of the line. As such ask for your patience because I'm highly disabled list nerve damage and it's very difficult to work your forums. It's not just with this keyboard software it is with others as well. Could you try to fix us as soon as possible
heartspeace said:
Hello,
I just want to know since there was a set of prizes worth $4 million that I think was being sponsored by Samsung how much does XT a development make every year? Obviously you are under no obligation to tell me since it's probably a private firm or maybe ohm by a larger firm. I only ask because most of the money this page because the developers store their hard earned software here and the forms that relate to them and they publish the results of their builds to these forums.
If I don't have quite right please still free to correct me. Please send a no circumstances at defensively and trying to lose your cool. We live in the capitalistic country thank God at least for now until socialism tries to take over. Or continues to try to take over.
Great Darlas I just wondered if any of the money was shared with the developers make the site possible. Are any or all of the developers actually paid by the proceeds from the site? Is any type of compensation whatsoever to the developers for their hard work that make some money that is generated by ADS that the owners of the site profit from? With just for now a set of $4 million in prizes I would think that the amount of money that the site generates is astronomical. By the way where do I sign up for these prizes see in all the videos?
If the developers are not making any money from this, G is the way that they can be made possible?
This is a perfect site for making money because of all the ads in the fact that people come here almost every day for a new set of operating systems to put on the phone, and that the source code from one phone can be used for many phones in general, well at least 60 to 80% or more. Feel free to correct my figures.
Go
Btw your friends does not work very well with voice dictation
Especially with the program called Swype. Example if I
say period it's supposed to put a dot, if I say question mark it should put a?
I wouldn't complain except that you need your text boxes are extremely hard because we're you touch is not where the cursor goes. This makes editing impossible especially at the end of the line. As such ask for your patience because I'm highly disabled list nerve damage and it's very difficult to work your forums. It's not just with this keyboard software it is with others as well. Could you try to fix us as soon as possible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you have failed to understand exactly WHY this site exists. Tip, it is not for the money....
mf2112 said:
I think you have failed to understand exactly WHY this site exists. Tip, it is not for the money....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do understand why this site exists period and I wouldn't be surprised that you actually make a lot of money orange that you barely break even . I am just curious to to know whether you make a lot of money are you barely breakeven. I only ask us because there was a set of $4 million in prizes being given away . Maybe that was just to third parties companies generosity. Does it hurt at all to ask these questions? /Can /will you answer them?
Also can you answer how I can sign up for the prizes?
heartspeace said:
I do understand why this site exists period and I wouldn't be surprised that you actually make a lot of money orange that you barely break even . I am just curious to to know whether you make a lot of money are you barely breakeven. I only ask us because there was a set of $4 million in prizes being given away . Maybe that was just to third parties companies generosity. Does it hurt at all to ask these questions? /Can /will you answer them?
Also can you answer how I can sign up for the prizes?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never heard about the prize so I am not sure. It doesn't hurt to ask although I am not sure this is the proper forum for it, and I am not sure why you felt the need to inject a political message into it, that tends to be frowned upon here as the site is about mobile phones and mobile phones aren't political.
As for your other questions, you might PM svetius. You certainly won't get an answer about finances posted back on a public thread, and frankly I doubt you will get an answer to it at all since you don't need to know it. I apologize if that seems rude, but this is a business like any other and is under no obligation or duty to show anybody anything with regards to finances except the owners.
mf2112 said:
Never heard about the prize so I am not sure. It doesn't hurt to ask although I am not sure this is the proper forum for it, and I am not sure why you felt the need to inject a political message into it, that tends to be frowned upon here as the site is about mobile phones and mobile phones aren't political.
As for your other questions, you might PM svetius. You certainly won't get an answer about finances posted back on a public thread, and frankly I doubt you will get an answer to it at all since you don't need to know it. I apologize if that seems rude, but this is a business like any other and is under no obligation or duty to show anybody anything with regards to finances except the owners.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those are the only two questions I'm really asking. Is this a for profit business? And that's a subquestion of that I wondered if the developers work for this business or if they work as a volunteer project? I know that if this is a for profit business it would not exist except for the developers putting up their ROMs and other support here for the many users. I think it would be good if it is a for-profit business Khala that perhaps the business gives some support monetarily to the developers. Is there is a 4 1/2 million dollar set of prizes as it said in the videos, I would love to be signed up for that and I wonder where I can?
I just think sites that are built upon the developers backs or other people's efforts should give back to those people more then just hosting in their software if and only if the company is profitable. On this page alone I see there are three ads. The other side is if this is a business and it needs help because it's not profitable and we can help it then maybe we can give donations? As this is a very valuable resource it to be nice to know what condition it send financially so it
doesn't fail to disappear like so many thousands of other business over the last few years.
HP
mf2112 said:
I think you have failed to understand exactly WHY this site exists. Tip, it is not for the money....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree.
I agree too
Sent from my MT11i using xda premium
The prizes in that competition are provided entirely by Samsung.
If it's the same competition I think you are referring to, you would need to publish an app on Samsung's store, and the most popular apps on a given date win...
Regarding developers, we have introduced a program recently to give a small number of developers phones and tablets to develop with. This is still a relatively small program, but I'm sure with time it will expand a bit, in a controlled manner
heartspeace said:
Hello,
I just want to know since there was a set of prizes worth $4 million that I think was being sponsored by Samsung how much does XT a development make every year? Obviously you are under no obligation to tell me since it's probably a private firm or maybe ohm by a larger firm. I only ask because most of the money this page because the developers store their hard earned software here and the forms that relate to them and they publish the results of their builds to these forums.
If I don't have quite right please still free to correct me. Please send a no circumstances at defensively and trying to lose your cool. We live in the capitalistic country thank God at least for now until socialism tries to take over. Or continues to try to take over.
Great Darlas I just wondered if any of the money was shared with the developers make the site possible. Are any or all of the developers actually paid by the proceeds from the site? Is any type of compensation whatsoever to the developers for their hard work that make some money that is generated by ADS that the owners of the site profit from? With just for now a set of $4 million in prizes I would think that the amount of money that the site generates is astronomical. By the way where do I sign up for these prizes see in all the videos?
If the developers are not making any money from this, G is the way that they can be made possible?
This is a perfect site for making money because of all the ads in the fact that people come here almost every day for a new set of operating systems to put on the phone, and that the source code from one phone can be used for many phones in general, well at least 60 to 80% or more. Feel free to correct my figures.
Go
Btw your friends does not work very well with voice dictation
Especially with the program called Swype. Example if I
say period it's supposed to put a dot, if I say question mark it should put a?
I wouldn't complain except that you need your text boxes are extremely hard because we're you touch is not where the cursor goes. This makes editing impossible especially at the end of the line. As such ask for your patience because I'm highly disabled list nerve damage and it's very difficult to work your forums. It's not just with this keyboard software it is with others as well. Could you try to fix us as soon as possible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BTW for typing via swype, have you considered trying the XDA app or Tapatalk? Much easier to use, as it's a native android app...
For the punctuation, I think that is a restriction of the voice to text software used within Swype, which I think is provided by Nuance.
I suggest you start typing your posts like everyone else if possible. Your voice dictated ones are horrible. They remind me of the kind of garbled messages spammers send or the garbage that results when lazy spammers scrap content and put it through an article spinner. Either that or get some decent voice dictation software.
BretonGirl said:
I suggest you start typing your posts like everyone else if possible. Your voice dictated ones are horrible. They remind me of the kind of garbled messages spammers send or the garbage that results when lazy spammers scrap content and put it through an article spinner. Either that or get some decent voice dictation software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm curious were you in a bad mood when you posted that, or were you just lacking enough charity to have any responsible foresight?
I use voice dictation because I had a bad operation which left me with severe nerve damage and muscle damage and muscle atrophy throughout my upper body; I am in moderate to severe pain about 24 hours a day even while undergoing pain management treatment. I used to run a worldwide software development organization with world-class developers for governmental programs. Forgive me if voice dictation is being my arms for now, and most likely rest my life.
But please if you can recommend voice dictation software better than Nuance on Android please do tell me about it. Google is still a large leap behind. I do not know of any others, do you? Perhaps this is a calling for you to write one to help many without the ability to type. What languages do you know? How proficient are you at programing? What is your background and education? I'm sure I can touch base with some of my old research buddies in the government who would love your donated time for such a project, if you have any programming skills or development background or even research background in linguistics, speech algorithms, or other related technologies.
hp
I suspect she is a teenager. There are quite a few here.
I don't know of any other voice dictation software, sorry. Never had a good opportunity to use it so I never investigated any of the available packages out there personally beyond a guick google once. Actually your posts were not any worse than many of the ones I read by the teenagers here with their abbreviations. :-/
So its been a while since i had an htc.
The last one i had was so easy to root s-off super cid.
when it wasnt, i always loved the challenge.
If i recall you had to extract a file called mmcblk0p4 and modify it. Or just modify it with a hex editor right on your phone and place it back with a root explorer. actually i still have it in an old folder.
What is the problem here? How did htc fix that exploit? Why cant we figure it out?
Not that i dont appreciate an awesome app that does it for you. But i always loved doing it myself.
Not trying to bash or start a debate over moralities. Just an interesting and informative convo.
where there is a will there is a way!
Well actually I guess because the people who were discovering the exploits actually created sunshine and are distributing methods via this app only.
There's nobody that can use the app to figure out how the actual app does it?
Maybe I am thinking its more simple than it is. I know i sure as hell cant.
myphonesbetter said:
There's nobody that can use the app to figure out how the actual app does it?
Maybe I am thinking its more simple than it is. I know i sure as hell cant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's an old discussion, but if you look up the Sunshine app thread you'll come across the explanation of why they decided to charge and what went into achieving S-OFF. Short answer: it's really hard.
Been about a year since i logged in apparently.
computerslayer said:
It's an old discussion, but if you look up the Sunshine app thread you'll come across the explanation of why they decided to charge and what went into achieving S-OFF. Short answer: it's really hard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the perfect answer. it really hard.
its because some people are lazy and others are greedy thats why.
Honestly paying for an app to just do everything takes the fun out of it. Im not a coder or anything but most of what i have learned is from flashing phones and modding video games lol. Just dont have quite enough of an obsessive personality to be a full on mr robot.
I can see making a payed version that does the work for you and takes away the risk of bricking your phone. for the people who just want want want.
This im sure would make more than enough to cover costs. especially if the dev was in india or something.
Used phones with cracked screens or broken headphone jacks are a dime a dozen.
Or how about someone just reverse engineer the sunshine app. Or FIND AN EXPLOIT. and release it to the forums.
FAIR GAME right?
This team spent 100s of dollars and 100s accumulative hours to exploit something that costs 100's of millions of dollars and who knows how many hours to create and distribute.
The development thread seems so commercial now. Wouldn't be surprised if most of them were making money data mining selling info to advertisers.
Isnt that where the real money is these days.
I cant pay for it for the same reason i cant pay money for the better gun in a video game. Just pay to win. doesn't feel the same.
Also android is open source and free.
It blows my mind that only this one group of people can figure out how to do this.
Seems like the fact that there is money to be made would encourage more guy fawkes' to create some friendly compotish.
Plus if more "exploiters" could start from there then eventually it could end up so much more refined. Just like everything else on these forums.
Anyways sunshine is free and along with water gives life to the entire planet. I think they got the name wrong.
walmart mod group. buy out all other "developers" (hackers) and charge the people that keep this whole thing going.
I can appreciate and even envy the business sense and intelligence it takes to do what they do. cant say if i was in their shoes i wouldnt do everything i could to monetize it. But its just sad to the the community go down the toilet. This forum used to be so much more exciting. it seems like it used to create developers now you just pick a rom and move on. mother ****ing sad face.
You do realize, if it was trivial and cheap to do, the dozens of people who come complain would have done it sometime in the last three years.
We even publish detailed write ups, and source code snippets to parts of sunshine, including vulnerabilities and exploits. We get people 90% of the way there.
Even with use giving away critical parts of the project, people still don't release free versions. Why? because it isn't easy, and it isn't cheap. You are going to ruin a lot of phones along the way, and your work on the "cheap ones" doesn't apply to the new expensive ones, you are starting over from scratch with each generation, often with each firmware release.
We don't sell data to anyone, no ads on our sites or apps, even the numerous free apps like weaksauce and depixel8 have no ads, nor do their associated websites (not counting the thieves that rehost them with ads, thats not us).
We bought out no one, we pay no one to develop for us. We reinvest funds into more phone and equipment, sometimes some booze, and often into charity. Even google called us out for our charity work on their VRP blog.
Good luck on your endeavors, I encourage you to make a free alternative, to invest the money and time we did out of your own pocket. Neither of us are educated in security or computer scienece, we picked it up along the way when trying to hack on phones. No excuses! Anyone complaining should be working on an alternative. Don't expect much donations, or if you put a price on it don't expect much money from it, it isn't there.
myphonesbetter said:
Been about a year since i logged in apparently.
That is the perfect answer. it really hard.
its because some people are lazy and others are greedy thats why.
Honestly paying for an app to just do everything takes the fun out of it. Im not a coder or anything but most of what i have learned is from flashing phones and modding video games lol. Just dont have quite enough of an obsessive personality to be a full on mr robot.
I can see making a payed version that does the work for you and takes away the risk of bricking your phone. for the people who just want want want.
This im sure would make more than enough to cover costs. especially if the dev was in india or something.
Used phones with cracked screens or broken headphone jacks are a dime a dozen.
Or how about someone just reverse engineer the sunshine app. Or FIND AN EXPLOIT. and release it to the forums.
FAIR GAME right?
This team spent 100s of dollars and 100s accumulative hours to exploit something that costs 100's of millions of dollars and who knows how many hours to create and distribute.
The development thread seems so commercial now. Wouldn't be surprised if most of them were making money data mining selling info to advertisers.
Isnt that where the real money is these days.
I cant pay for it for the same reason i cant pay money for the better gun in a video game. Just pay to win. doesn't feel the same.
Also android is open source and free.
It blows my mind that only this one group of people can figure out how to do this.
Seems like the fact that there is money to be made would encourage more guy fawkes' to create some friendly compotish.
Plus if more "exploiters" could start from there then eventually it could end up so much more refined. Just like everything else on these forums.
Anyways sunshine is free and along with water gives life to the entire planet. I think they got the name wrong.
walmart mod group. buy out all other "developers" (hackers) and charge the people that keep this whole thing going.
I can appreciate and even envy the business sense and intelligence it takes to do what they do. cant say if i was in their shoes i wouldnt do everything i could to monetize it. But its just sad to the the community go down the toilet. This forum used to be so much more exciting. it seems like it used to create developers now you just pick a rom and move on. mother ****ing sad face.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sunshine has been about since the HTC One M7 days, I paid and used it on my M7 and M8 and about to use it on 2 x M9's, me personally, I really dont have a problem paying the $25 for it to do what it does, personally I think its dead cheap for what these guys did to get around HTCs so called fixes.
Now on to why it even costs in the first place, imagine whilst developing an app to this level, how many phones you had to buy and destroy along the way, this app isnt just for pretty much every HTC made since the M7, of course you are going to want some of it back, if you didnt, you'd be bankrupt in 2 days, with every release of firmware or every new phone release, the app needs to be modified and updated, Hell, you pay $200 for Microsoft Windows for the same reasons.
jcase said:
You do realize, if it was trivial and cheap to do, the dozens of people who come complain would have done it sometime in the last three years.
We even publish detailed write ups, and source code snippets to parts of sunshine, including vulnerabilities and exploits. We get people 90% of the way there.
Even with use giving away critical parts of the project, people still don't release free versions. Why? because it isn't easy, and it isn't cheap. You are going to ruin a lot of phones along the way, and your work on the "cheap ones" doesn't apply to the new expensive ones, you are starting over from scratch with each generation, often with each firmware release.
We don't sell data to anyone, no ads on our sites or apps, even the numerous free apps like weaksauce and depixel8 have no ads, nor do their associated websites (not counting the thieves that rehost them with ads, thats not us).
We bought out no one, we pay no one to develop for us. We reinvest funds into more phone and equipment, sometimes some booze, and often into charity. Even google called us out for our charity work on their VRP blog.
Good luck on your endeavors, I encourage you to make a free alternative, to invest the money and time we did out of your own pocket. Neither of us are educated in security or computer scienece, we picked it up along the way when trying to hack on phones. No excuses! Anyone complaining should be working on an alternative. Don't expect much donations, or if you put a price on it don't expect much money from it, it isn't there.
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thanks for the response. It would be nice to get a response on the actual q i posted lol. (different thread)
I guess its easier when its trivial.
Its good to hear you guys donate some of it. and that youve release the majority of the code. i guess people are just lazy.
Honestly you dont need s-off. The main reason i would want it is incase i need to go back to stock for warranty reasons. In which case the money would be worth it. still more fun do follow a write and learn about what i am doing in the process.
As far as data mining im talking about some of the more popular roms and apps out there. not just in the htc forum. Just a thought. why wouldn't they.
And the question isn't why its $25. I get that. It is totally worth it. Its so easy to use. I used to spend hours troubleshooting to get my phones s-off'd and running smooth on all the roms. now you can do it in seconds. these days i just pick one that works better than stock and stick with it. seems like stock updates kill the phones now.
Its why hasn't anybody exploited sunshine or made a completely different app that does the same thing. Or even better a write up on how to do it yourself.
To say its expensive on the older phones is a stretch and to say its too hard is eh.
I couldn't do it but you guys did (very quickly). so that means there is some 8 year old that could do it in his sleep.
And to say its out of pocket is a stretch when its a payed service. Most business endeavors or charities require some sort of investment.
And you can make a large chunk of the money back selling a bricked phone for parts. especially if its the latest model.
Why don't you guys release the code for free when you once you pay yourselves back. If more people started out where you left off (much like how you guys started) then the next generation would take no effort. If there were a thousand people testing and communicating and working together then the cost and time would be nothing.
There is nowhere to start anymore. there used to be all kinds of write ups that forced you to learn more about how everything works. then naturally some people figure out what they are actually doing are inspired to improve on it (sunshine for example). but now its just seems so overwhelming. Like nobody is there to help out when you get stuck.
I guess it dragged a little deeper than i wanted. But every time someone asks these questions it turns into insult matches or just the copy pasted comment of i don't think $25 is too much. if you cant afford that then blah blah . then all credibility is lost and people are persuaded to think as the majority of commenters think. Mouthbreathers will be mouthbreathers. But they are the ones that make this consumer based economy function properly.
Again, not trying to bash the people that put their time into this. More so trying to spark thoughts in people's minds who would normally just follow suit. Highlight different perspectives.
myphonesbetter said:
Its why hasn't anybody exploited sunshine or made a completely different app that does the same thing. Or even better a write up on how to do it yourself.
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Many people have tried to crack sunshine, I'm unaware of anyone being successful. It is actually pretty funny seeing how many hours people put into cracking SunShine, it is an worthless endeavor considering that most of the calculations are done server side, cracking the app doesn't get you anything as it is done server side. They would need to hack our WAN facing server, proxy through it and then hack the "offline" box we do the work on. This would be a felony on many levels. I like to think most people are honest, and don't go committing felony violations of CFAA over the fact that an app isn't free.
As far as a different app, it is hard, it is expensive, and most people with the skillset or drive, are tackling bigger problems.
Far as a writeup, we make plenty of them, where are your technical write ups?
myphonesbetter said:
To say its expensive on the older phones is a stretch and to say its too hard is eh.
I couldn't do it but you guys did (very quickly). so that means there is some 8 year old that could do it in his sleep.
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None of this is "very fast", it all has years of research behind it. Research we did, we put the time and money into. Yes even on old phones it is expensive, the software we use (IDA Pro and Jeb) alone are $1000s a year in licensing fees. Considering each person needs a license, its very costly. And yes, we are not thieves, we actually have licenses in our names. Many models we have spent money on, never sell more than a couple licenses. So the more popular models also fund the work done on models that don't make any sales. Sure we could just not add support for oddball models sold in only one country, but what fun is that.
myphonesbetter said:
And to say its out of pocket is a stretch when its a payed service. Most business endeavors or charities require some sort of investment.
And you can make a large chunk of the money back selling a bricked phone for parts. especially if its the latest model.
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The investment would be the out of pocket part, money to start projects doesnt just magically show up. New HTC u11 is what $600 bucks? One we fried the soc and mmc on? What $50 if we are selling it honestly (cause that thing wont EVER be repaired, and screen is about the only part re-usable)? Plus we run the risk of our debug builds leaking if someone is able to extract memory from the device, no thanks, not reselling a burned phone for $50(or even $300) and risk losing everything we have worked on for the last few years.
myphonesbetter said:
Why don't you guys release the code for free when you once you pay yourselves back. If more people started out where you left off (much like how you guys started) then the next generation would take no effort. If there were a thousand people testing and communicating and working together then the cost and time would be nothing.
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We have released plenty of free training material, white papers and example source code for people to start off of. Those resources would be much better than starting off with SunShine source code. As we have said, when SunShine is done, we will open source it. Considering no one does anything with what we do release, I have doubts anyone would do anything with everything we don't release. We were sure we would get 0 sales on Droid Turbo after publishing that write up, we thought someone would have a free exploit written that day. It has been years, nothing so far.
myphonesbetter said:
If there were a thousand people testing and communicating and working together then the cost and time would be nothing.
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LOL. People don't contribute to most mobile OSS projects, go look at copperhead, look at their commit history. I'm even guilty of it, my contributions besides projects I helped started are minimal (even my commits to AOSP are few).
myphonesbetter said:
There is nowhere to start anymore. there used to be all kinds of write ups that forced you to learn more about how everything works. then naturally some people figure out what they are actually doing are inspired to improve on it (sunshine for example). but now its just seems so overwhelming. Like nobody is there to help out when you get stuck.
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All of our write ups are still up, and we still publish more each year, I don't know what the heck you are going on about here. Please take the time to look rather than just make such claims.
myphonesbetter said:
Again, not trying to bash the people that put their time into this. More so trying to spark thoughts in people's minds who would normally just follow suit. Highlight different perspectives.
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Again, feel free to use the free resources we have and continue to provide to the community for free to build your own. We DO NOT discourage people from doing so, we actively encourage it by publishing a fair bit of our work for free. I even traveled on my own dime (not sunshine money, not someone else's money, but from my paycheck) without reimbursement to Las Vegas with Tim Strazzere and Caleb Fenton to provide trading FOR FREE. We over filled the maximum occupancy for the room. We were not allowed to take any more people.
In reality, and not to be insulting, it is pretty obvious you didn't properly research all of this.