Develop Bugs

Are O2 acting legally to refuse to supply unlock codes?

I'm not sure of the legal basis for O2 refusing to supply onlock codes (which they have done with me 3 times now, despite others' success), so I have decided to complain to OFCOM.
1) I don't see how they can control what I do with a phone I have bought privately, SIM free on the open market.
2) I have no contract with them, so they cannot bind me to anything. They have tried telling me I can have the unlock code when I have had my PAYG SIM for a year; however, this is nothing to do with the xda. These were two separate transactions. There is no term in my SIM contract relating to a particular phone.
3)the original owner still has a contract with them and is using his SIM in his new phone, thus they are not losing out. Furthermore, by refusing to unlock it they are getting two customers from one contract.
4) It is anti-competitive, as I cannot choose to go to a cheaper network (I want to use T-Mobile for the free voicemail). They could raise their PAYG tariff astronomically, and I would still have to use O2 or my phone would be useless. I am also unable to use a foreign SIM card when abroad, thus am tied in to expensive international calls, with the money going to O2.
5) What would I do if O2 go bust or cease to trade, or fail to get their licence renewed, etc? My phone would be absolutely useless.
Below is the link I have used to register my complaint. If they are inundated with complaints, hoefully they will do something about it.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/contact_ofcom/general_complaint
Cathy

I guess I am playing Devil's Advocate, but I have to say that I see there point.
Otherwise, ANYONE could buy an XDA2 for just one example, sell it on at a high profit from the subsidisation cost he/she paid/will pay through the contract term, and make a tidy profit there and then, whilst still selling it to you for less than an unlocked SIM free handset from the likes of eBay.
I appreciate your views, BUT, to the letter of the law, UNTIL the original purchaser fulfills his 12 months, its technically not even HIS to sell to you.
Its a grey area, but to the letter of the law, that's the situation.
We ALL know that in reality it doesn't work that way, and we all sell stuff on before the 12 months is up, knowing that we as the original owner are liable to ensure we see out the 12 months.
BUT, in your case however, you are not talking about a day to day ownership, but arguing a point of law because of the difficult situation you are in.
And as I outlined, this is one of the very reasons why, to the letter of the law, its not even meant to pe permissable to even sell it on to you.
It becomes the property of the original purchaser, only at the point he has satisfied his 12 month term, and only then is he really meant to sell it.
We all know this isn't what happens, but it DOES mean we are not in any position to argue law, if we choose to agree to buying it.
Otherwise, i could buy a £120 XDA2 from onestop, with a contract bringing it to £360 all in, over a year, BUT sell it straight on to you now for £400, unopened, sealed, brand new in effect, sim free, and make a tidy profit of £40, AND spread the rest of my repayments to O2, IF they were to then instantly agree to give you the unlock code.
An unlikely scenario to say the least.
(All this of course aside from the fact that the XDA2 can easily be unlocked using any of the tools on this site - including the latest ROM version I beleive - so I am not sure waht the purpose of the post is Cathy - why not just unlock it like I did, to use it on Orange?)

im with you Shadamehr. Why bother complaining when its so easy to unlock it anyway. i unlocked mine without problem using the tools available on this website.

...However, there have also been posts from people who have used the download tools and have then experienced problems. I have the ROM version that requires the hard reset and using bootloader mode, or whatever it is. I am not a computer expert, and I have forund from experience that tampering with things that are at present working is not a good plan. It is very time consuming, and I don't feel competent to deal with any problems that arise.

Cathy said:
I have the ROM version that requires the hard reset and using bootloader mode, or whatever it is. I am not a computer expert, and I have forund from experience that tampering with things that are at present working is not a good plan. It is very time consuming, and I don't feel competent to deal with any problems that arise.
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I completely agree with your right and demand to get services in such a case. However, for anyone that does not want to go through the unlock process with the bootloader and hard reset (the 'old' method), I advise you to upgrade. As far as I know all major sellers now provide upgrades. These will also upgrade your radio to version 1.10.x, which is a very much improved radio version. Well worth the upgrade. After that upgrade the simple upgrade tool (the 'new' method) works.

Cathy, I never meant to offend - just to point out the basic premise that on a point of law, you have no legal basis to ask for the unlock code, because to the letter of the law, he had no legal right to even sell you it.
It's a bit hard insisting on an unlock code from the netowrk, for a device that the owner shouldn't even have sold you anyway now is it?
I know we ALL do it QUIETLY, but that doesn't make a whole lot of difference when we need to kick up a fuss and publicise it does it?
But believe me, the Unlock method you refer to, if you have radio stack version 1.05, is REALLY easy enough, and in fact, the LEAST dangerous, in that it isn't actually CHANGING anything unlike the others, as it is only working out what the unlock code is - it doesn't actually unlock it - it only works out the code for you, so it could be argued it's the least intrusive/dangerous.
You then just put another network SIM into the XDA2, so it gives the obvious unathaurised SIM message, and then asks you to enter the unlock code - just exactly the same as if it was supplied by the network.
Failing that, and if you still are unhappy, which I understand, then the new GENUINE, OFFICIAL ROM Upgrade is now available from the O2 UK website.
It's a long process of around an hour all in, but it updates to the latest version whereby you can run a simple unlock tool on the phone to do it all for you.
Hope this is of some use, and if any of us can help more, just ask here...

Thank you...

ahhh, but...
I would contend that although the owner no longer has the phone and has sold it, he is in fact meeting the subsidation requirement by maintaining his contract.
I would also contend or pose the question that what if you broke the phone (by mistake)?
As long as the contract period is still upheld by the original owner, than the provider has no right to hold the unlock code of the now, transferred phone. That's why there are cancellation fees and long-term contracts.
JS

If a locked phone presents a problem for a potential customer then they should, at the outset, request that the phone be unlocked and that your signing the contract depends on this, the reason, if asked, is that you may have to use a 3rd party sim in another country and you dont wish to carry 2 phones, or see why you should.

Re: ahhh, but...
wiredup said:
I would contend that although the owner no longer has the phone and has sold it, he is in fact meeting the subsidation requirement by maintaining his contract.
I would also contend or pose the question that what if you broke the phone (by mistake)?
As long as the contract period is still upheld by the original owner, than the provider has no right to hold the unlock code of the now, transferred phone. That's why there are cancellation fees and long-term contracts.
JS
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Of course there IS mate.
Because under UK law, the network is within the law to with-hold the code to the actual contract holder, never mind the person they re-sold the handset on to. (Save for them charging a 'small' admin fee and supplying you with it IF you pay of the equivalent of the remainder of your contract).
So they are WELL within their rights to do what they are doing.
Let's not forget here, we are talking about heavy subsidisation by the networks towards the original handset.
My XDA2 cost £119. With my contract, that will be still only £360 or even less, all told.
i can't even buy an equivalent Pocket PC itself for that sort of money, never mind something as swanky as an expensive XDA2 that would cost loads more.
This is becuase the network is so heavily subsidising the cost of it.
And yet you expect them just to say "certainly sir/madam, with pleasure" when you ask them for an unlock code part way through your contract?
Er yeah, right.
Put it this way, the day they do, is the day our handsets start costing £400 or even £500 WITH A CONTRACT.
Let's be real folks!

Again, im with u Shadamehr :wink: . The networks have every right to deny you the unlock code as technically it is still their phone until the contract is fully paid as the handset is heavily subsidised. the networks would lose a lot if the phone was unlocked out of the box or they gave the code away before the contract was up. As i said previously, why bother complaining to them when there are tools available on this website for unlocking the phone , pre and post update. it is just a waste of time and energy when u can have the code in less time than it would take to get through to them to explain to them why they should giv u the code. im not a phone techy but i followed the instructions on the pre update tool and it worked without problem giving me the code. i put my old Vodafone SIM in and entered the code the tool gave me. it worked without a problem . they obviously arent giving you the code Cathy, so cheat like the rest of us :wink: .

Re: ahhh, but...
Shadamehr said:
wiredup said:
I would contend that although the owner no longer has the phone and has sold it, he is in fact meeting the subsidation requirement by maintaining his contract.
I would also contend or pose the question that what if you broke the phone (by mistake)?
As long as the contract period is still upheld by the original owner, than the provider has no right to hold the unlock code of the now, transferred phone. That's why there are cancellation fees and long-term contracts.
JS
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Of course there IS mate.
Because under UK law, the network is within the law to with-hold the code to the actual contract holder, never mind the person they re-sold the handset on to. (Save for them charging a 'small' admin fee and supplying you with it IF you pay of the equivalent of the remainder of your contract).
So they are WELL within their rights to do what they are doing.
Let's not forget here, we are talking about heavy subsidisation by the networks towards the original handset.
My XDA2 cost £119. With my contract, that will be still only £360 or even less, all told.
i can't even buy an equivalent Pocket PC itself for that sort of money, never mind something as swanky as an expensive XDA2 that would cost loads more.
This is becuase the network is so heavily subsidising the cost of it.
And yet you expect them just to say "certainly sir/madam, with pleasure" when you ask them for an unlock code part way through your contract?
Er yeah, right.
Put it this way, the day they do, is the day our handsets start costing £400 or even £500 WITH A CONTRACT.
Let's be real folks!
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Shadamehr,
Clearly you do not understand. Let's suppose: As you stated, the phone would normally be 360, but since the network subsidize the phone, they sell it for 199. Fair enough. I know I am responsible for a contract term of 1 year. Done.
I have later sold the phone after just 3 months. I am STILL responsible for the one year contract... still paying back their "subsidation!" So, what the BIG deal whether I still own the phone or not--the contract obligations are still being met!... own the phone or not.
Like I said before, WHAT IF I broke the phone? What's the difference, I am still obligated to continue the contract--phone or no phone! AND, they still get their SUBSIDATION!
Geez... and, it's no different in USA!

Don't be so bloody stupid.
No one ever said it doesn't HAPPEN. Or are you blind?
What I CLEARLY said is that just because it goes on, unspoken, quite regular, doesn't help one little bit when it comes to wanting an unlock code from the network provider within year one.
May I suggest you re-read my post again?
And PLEASE - if you are in the USA, dont make the mistake of assuming that things must automatically be the same.
If you buy a car on H.P. (slightly different, admittedly), then you CANNOT automatically sell that car on in the UK, if you are still paying back the H.P. on it, and to do so can be illegal. That is a simple given fact that most people in the UK know about - so please don't assume for one second that things have to be the same.
If you want to settle this definitively, then feel free to ring OFCOM, and then post your response here for us to share. But I offer you don't need to, as I already posted what the situation is in the UK.
Besides, let me end by saying as LOUD as I can, as you seem to have missed it...
The day that the networks start giving out Unlock codes within the first 12 months, is the day our handsets suddenly cost 100% more money to obtain, even WITH a contract included.
YOU might want that mate...
But us sensible sorts in the rest of the world surely DON'T want to see an average cost increase of at least £100 on an XDA2 for example, just to cover those people who want an unlock code from the start.
There is a method already in existance for getting a phone network free...
It's called BUYING SIM FREE/UNLOCKED. And if you are going to tell me that it costs MUCH MORE to buy it that way, as opposed to on a contract, now why on earth might that be I wonder... now let me think...?
Oh dear me - not because on contract the networks heavily subsidise them by any chance - well there you go - would you look at that!
Sorry for being flippant, but isn't that what I already said in my post, and I now find I am repeating it here...
(And as an EDIT to this post, as I realised it hasn't sufficiently covered your post, let me remind you that one little detail - no matter whether you DO continue to pay your bills in respect of it, as the original owner. UNTIL the subsidisation period is met, even with you still happily paying for a phone you sold, then the networks do not give out the unlock code, and are within their rights under UK law to do so - so your argument has no merit, or productive outcome anyway - it doesn't make a jot of difference to the new owner anyway, until YOU have paid your 12 months - which is also covered in my post).

Shadamehr said:
Don't be so bloody stupid.
No one ever said it doesn't HAPPEN. Or are you blind?
What I CLEARLY said is that just because it goes on, unspoken, quite regular, doesn't help one little bit when it comes to wanting an unlock code from the network provider within year one.
May I suggest you re-read my post again?
And PLEASE - if you are in the USA, dont make the mistake of assuming that things must automatically be the same.
If you buy a car on H.P. (slightly different, admittedly), then you CANNOT automatically sell that car on in the UK, if you are still paying back the H.P. on it, and to do so can be illegal. That is a simple given fact that most people in the UK know about - so please don't assume for one second that things have to be the same.
If you want to settle this definitively, then feel free to ring OFCOM, and then post your response here for us to share. But I offer you don't need to, as I already posted what the situation is in the UK.
Besides, let me end by saying as LOUD as I can, as you seem to have missed it...
The day that the networks start giving out Unlock codes within the first 12 months, is the day our handsets suddenly cost 100% more money to obtain, even WITH a contract included.
YOU might want that mate...
But us sensible sorts in the rest of the world surely DON'T want to see an average cost increase of at least £100 on an XDA2 for example, just to cover those people who want an unlock code from the start.
There is a method already in existance for getting a phone network free...
It's called BUYING SIM FREE/UNLOCKED. And if you are going to tell me that it costs MUCH MORE to buy it that way, as opposed to on a contract, now why on earth might that be I wonder... now let me think...?
Oh dear me - not because on contract the networks heavily subsidise them by any chance - well there you go - would you look at that!
Sorry for being flippant, but isn't that what I already said in my post, and I now find I am repeating it here...
(And as an EDIT to this post, as I realised it hasn't sufficiently covered your post, let me remind you that one little detail - no matter whether you DO continue to pay your bills in respect of it, as the original owner. UNTIL the subsidisation period is met, even with you still happily paying for a phone you sold, then the networks do not give out the unlock code, and are within their rights under UK law to do so - so your argument has no merit, or productive outcome anyway - it doesn't make a jot of difference to the new owner anyway, until YOU have paid your 12 months - which is also covered in my post).
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The debate was a discussion of whether network should indeed allow unlock codes to be made available before the contract term--of which I replied.
My comments addressed your arrogant, definitive statements surrounding why carriers do not release unlock codes. That is, and what you believe to be, a dependency between contracts and subsidation. However, my opinion was simply the two are mutually exclusive.
Law is the law. While you might prefer subsidation and being locked into a carrier, others may prefer the contractless freedom--of which, some are available.
In addition, I think your condescending, rude and utterly poor communication skills are of an entirely new thread. I suggest a filter between your brain and keyboard as clearly your intuition to write without consideration is overwhelmingly powerful.
It is simply a discussion.
Best regards,
JS

Mmm - I've spent seven years as a die hard internet user, from forums, to newsgroups, to chat rooms and all in between.
I learned a LONG time ago, that the rudest, most arrogant and obnoxious posters are never the brainless ones, but rather, just like you so emphatically prove, the ones that try and hide their attacks behind smooth words, and flowing language.
Consequently, I'll grant you one thing mate... You probably the rudest and most offensive to post to me, in a wee while.
Another thing I learned a long time ago, is not to bother arguing.
I will simply say, the post, the entire thread, is there for all to see, and more importantly, all to judge as they see fit.
Whilst I have no reservation in saying this thread is indeed one of my more flippant posts, compared to the help I try and chip in with round here, I have no suspicions whatsoever that I will be the one judged to be the perpertrator round here - after all, I merely pointed things out. Its not MY fault that you don't LIKE what I had to report. Hey, I never even said that I LIKED it either - I'm merely messenger, pointing out a few home truths.
And not letting you get away with it that easily, I would just remind you that once again, if people DO wish to prevail themselves of a handset that is NOT network locked, the facility already exists for them to do so, and its called BUYING SIM FREE.
Or did you miss that yet again.
Making it as clear as possible for you, in case you haven't worked out yet that I have NO reason to defend the networks per se, nevertheless mate, if a Network heavily subsidises a handset, provided you agree to stick with them 12 months, not tariff change until after 4 (or 6) months, and not get an unlock code until after the twelve months, then it couldn't be simpler mate...
You either take it, or you leave it.
But if you go into it with open eyes, as you surely should, then you have no right, or place, or reason, to later post in here that you think its unfair that the network won't give you an unlock code in the first twelve months.
If you don't like that idea, you DON'T take out the contract mate.
ITS THAT SIMPLE.
And if you want to, you can then buy a SIM FREE handset.
But please, don't complain about the cost being too high then. Of course it is - that is the REAL price.
The price you are used to, on contract, is a heavily subsidised one, available to you provided you AGREE to certain conditions etc.
Note that word "agree". Because it means that once you accept it, then there is little point or purpose to whingeing on later, about something that you, as a consumer, of your own volition and free will, AGREED to.
Now please, my Email address should be in my profile.
If you want to flame me or troll me anymore - by all means do so by Email, and keep your incesant ramblings OFF this board.
Like I said - both our comments are there for all to see.
More importantly, they are there for others to judge.
I'm more than happy to let the members judge me.
I trust you are the same.
Now leave it please. (Or rather, troll and flame me as much as you feel the need to, but use my email in future instead of boring everyone else in this forum).

Shadamehr said:
Mmm - I've spent seven years as a die hard internet user, from forums, to newsgroups, to chat rooms and all in between.
I learned a LONG time ago, that the rudest, most arrogant and obnoxious posters are never the brainless ones, but rather, just like you so emphatically prove, the ones that try and hide their attacks behind smooth words, and flowing language.
Consequently, I'll grant you one thing mate... You probably the rudest and most offensive to post to me, in a wee while.
Another thing I learned a long time ago, is not to bother arguing.
I will simply say, the post, the entire thread, is there for all to see, and more importantly, all to judge as they see fit.
Whilst I have no reservation in saying this thread is indeed one of my more flippant posts, compared to the help I try and chip in with round here, I have no suspicions whatsoever that I will be the one judged to be the perpertrator round here - after all, I merely pointed things out. Its not MY fault that you don't LIKE what I had to report. Hey, I never even said that I LIKED it either - I'm merely messenger, pointing out a few home truths.
And not letting you get away with it that easily, I would just remind you that once again, if people DO wish to prevail themselves of a handset that is NOT network locked, the facility already exists for them to do so, and its called BUYING SIM FREE.
Or did you miss that yet again.
Making it as clear as possible for you, in case you haven't worked out yet that I have NO reason to defend the networks per se, nevertheless mate, if a Network heavily subsidises a handset, provided you agree to stick with them 12 months, not tariff change until after 4 (or 6) months, and not get an unlock code until after the twelve months, then it couldn't be simpler mate...
You either take it, or you leave it.
But if you go into it with open eyes, as you surely should, then you have no right, or place, or reason, to later post in here that you think its unfair that the network won't give you an unlock code in the first twelve months.
If you don't like that idea, you DON'T take out the contract mate.
ITS THAT SIMPLE.
And if you want to, you can then buy a SIM FREE handset.
But please, don't complain about the cost being too high then. Of course it is - that is the REAL price.
The price you are used to, on contract, is a heavily subsidised one, available to you provided you AGREE to certain conditions etc.
Note that word "agree". Because it means that once you accept it, then there is little point or purpose to whingeing on later, about something that you, as a consumer, of your own volition and free will, AGREED to.
Now please, my Email address should be in my profile.
If you want to flame me or troll me anymore - by all means do so by Email, and keep your incesant ramblings OFF this board.
Like I said - both our comments are there for all to see.
More importantly, they are there for others to judge.
I'm more than happy to let the members judge me.
I trust you are the same.
Now leave it please. (Or rather, troll and flame me as much as you feel the need to, but use my email in future instead of boring everyone else in this forum).
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Mr. Shadamehr,
Please don't patronize me with your comments like, "If you want to flame me or troll me anymore - by all means do so by Email, and keep your incesant ramblings OFF this board." If you review your postings above, it is your posts that "ramble" (i.e. are the longest!)
Last time I checked, freedom of speech is well within the bounds of this board. Your decisive statements, most of which are opinion-driven, are your position only. I'm not sure anyone complained of the cost of the PDA's--if you review the posts, no one actually did. I have plenty of income, so cost isn't an issue for me... so, why would you assume it does?
And, may I say, that this conversation will last as long as it needs to; again, isn't freedom awesome?
All I'm saying is: we agree law is the law. The debate lies in whether it is fair or not (personal opinions); as consumers, we have the ability to persuade the industry.
I'll refrain from the "are you STUPID mate?," "Or did you miss that yet again" statements as they are useless, condescending remarks that provide no value to the debate.
At what point do you believe you're more intelligent than the rest of us?
JS

Freedom of speech is indeed a truly wonderful thing.
But YOU were the one that said:
"In addition, I think your condescending, rude and utterly poor communication skills are of an entirely new thread."
Implying this should be kept well off the board, or at least, THIS thread!
But NOW you are saying:
"And, may I say, that this conversation will last as long as it needs to; again, isn't freedom awesome? "
I'm sorry, there's not a lot I or anyone else can do to help you, if you yourself are unsure as to what you want, and change your mind to suit, as and when you feel like it.
This whole thread was about Networks with-holding the Unlock code within the first twelve months.
I have just CHECKED again, and my first post on this topic, was an indication of the current position, based on my OWN issues I had, just like Cathy, and what OFTEL (as it was then), informed me was the law, and the issues around it.
I posted that information here, and as such, was only the messenger for what I am all too aware is unpopular knowledge. Nevertheless, I was nothing more than messenger.
Because that information was not popular reading however, you took it on board to somewhat hold me to blame, or at very least to turn the argument around onto me.
Suit yourself.
I end, after having demonstrated how you blow hot and cold in the same debate (a frightening quality indeed), simply by referring the Learned Gentleman to my last post, where I said:
"The members, ultimately will decide who they feel is right, and who is in the wrong..." (or similar)...
And in that respect nothing has changed.
Now, finally, you DID originally say you wanted this kept off the board, so I implore you to do so now.
But of course, you being you, you later contradicted yourself by then saying you will keep this going as long as you want, so I doubt you will leave it now.
Funny how you change your mind to suit yourself best.
But give the matter thought, because I really can't be bothered. You see:
"I learned a long time ago never to argue overly long with fools. All they ever do is bring you down to THEIR level, and of course once they manage that, they then go on to beat you with their vast experience over you they have in that role..."

And in an effort to reach closure, can I make something clear where your WHOLE debate is wrong...?
You say:
"All I'm saying is: we agree law is the law. The debate lies in whether it is fair or not (personal opinions); as consumers, we have the ability to persuade the industry."
Forgive me for completely correcting you...
This is Cathy's post.
And she called it:
"Are O2 acting legally in with-holding the unlock code"
Clear as day, a question on whether the issue was legallly correct or not. Nothing at all, as you seek to save grace by now implying, about the relative morals of it. I can't even see where that aspect creeps in other than your OWN posts.
And my response, pointing out the LEGAL position, was thus therefore a completely correct, and completely appropriate response to her thread.
You are therefore completely incorrect in saying this is a thread about the MORALS of it - it was a CLEAR question on the LEGALITIES of it.
If you wish to have a moral debate about the relative rights or wrongs of the netoworks doing this, then I would be HAPPY to join you in such a debate.
But as this would be a NEW aspect, then I would expect an apology from you (which there is no chance I will get), for you completely having wrongly judged me, by saying this debate was already one about morals.
It isn't - please read Cathy's title again.
My response to her, that you so deride and find worthy of argument, was thus totally appropriate - she asked if O2 were acting LEGALLY (it's in the title).
I replied explaining that they were - from my own experinces with OFTEL.
I trust, and I mean this fairly and not conflictory, that you now realise that I had done noting wrong. This was NOT a debate, as you so keep saying, about the MORALS of it.
That post would be entitled:
"Are O2 acting immorally or unreasonably by with-holding the unlock code"
And in that post, your comments would be far more correct then, and appropriate, and I couldn't fault them half as much.
But, er, this is NOT that thread though.
This is the "Are O2 acting LEGALLY..." one.
Sorry for keep repeating it.

Well, that gave me a laugh during lunch time....

IMEI CHANGE XDA 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

will this ever happen!!!!!!!!!

well considering that the imei is the identifier for a mobile phone i dont think you will ever get to change it, and if you could, why would you want to?, the only reason someone would want to change an imei on a mobile is if its a stolen mobile and that person wanted to change the identifier *imei* so as not to get caught...

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think it ever will!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

never say never. i guess the imei is just a few bits on an unknown adress in one of these flash memory chips inside. what i am trying to say: the imei is nothing hard coded in the device, it is programmable. for mobile phones there are a lot of hacking tools for changing the imei e.g. of nokia phones, philips, sagem etc.
but i agree: what would be the sense of changing imei? covering a stolen phone from being identified and possibly tracked?
greetings
peter

There are legitimate reasons for wanting to change one's IMEI. For instance: if I were to use pepaid cards for multiple identities which I wish to remain separate towards the state, then I must use many phones, or change IMEI. And if you think resisting the eyes of a state is somehow evil, then please consider not all nation states are equally friendly at any given time. Union organizers and human rights activists in many countries stand to lose if we only associate their technical needs with crime and terrorism.

Excellent point of view Peter!

So I wonder which Nas is: Union organiser or human rights activist?
IMHO, changing IMEI number is something that will help more criminals than secretive activists, and it shouldn't be encouraged. Of course, just MHO.

Ha Neither!
But what are the chances that a simple minded phone thief will actually have the intelligence to join a form and ask, die hard users if they could unlock the phone he has stolen from probably another die hard user.
We all have our reasons, and it makes me smile, when every time there is a chat about changing this or that on a product that people assume the worth or blindly give their assumptions on the reasons!
I remember back in the early 90s when people like myself were hacking the Amiga games and putting them in the public forum, it was the same thickle minded people that said we were all gangsters raising money to have drug parties in Europe.
The reason i wanted to unlock my IMEI is simple, the prices in the UK are far too high, so on a trip to Singapore i brought one, boxed receipt ect!
It worked fine out there an no matter what i do with it here its not working, so i have flushed it, and changed various settings and unlocked it but it has never worked as a phone.
This is just another throw of the dice.
So will all the people thinking im a freaking mugger or two bit crim, please stay away when the grown folks are talking!!!!!!

Nas said:
But what are the chances that a simple minded phone thief will actually have the intelligence to join a form and ask, die hard users if they could unlock the phone he has stolen from probably another die hard user.
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The organised gangs of criminals who deal in stolen handsets are very cunning, and far from simple minded. The petty criminal who snatches a phone may well not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he isn't the one who does the real business and makes all the profit.
Right now I would say that a fixed IMEI number is the best deterrent we have against large-scale phone crime, and I'd be happy to keep it that way.

Agreed the big fish are very smart, however the smartest thing to do with a stolen hand set is simply take it out of the country it was stolen in.
Why go through the need of replacing IMEI numbers and possibly bringing attention to yourself in chat rooms, when you can get on a plane and sell the phone as perfectly working.
these gangs make big money, and i agree any method stopping them doing what they do, especially in light of the recent killing in the UK is a good thing.
What gets me is when, guys like me ask a question, for a valid reason and a chat room full of people that most probably all hack for fun, turn around not even question but put foward opinions on my motives, and liken me to a mugger!

Did you buy the phone brand new in Singapore? I cant think of any reason for the phone not to work here unless it was previously blocked here in UK and found its way out east. Have you tried different sims from different providers? What do you hear/see when you try to place a call?
Nas said:
Ha Neither!
But what are the chances that a simple minded phone thief will actually have the intelligence to join a form and ask, die hard users if they could unlock the phone he has stolen from probably another die hard user.
We all have our reasons, and it makes me smile, when every time there is a chat about changing this or that on a product that people assume the worth or blindly give their assumptions on the reasons!
I remember back in the early 90s when people like myself were hacking the Amiga games and putting them in the public forum, it was the same thickle minded people that said we were all gangsters raising money to have drug parties in Europe.
The reason i wanted to unlock my IMEI is simple, the prices in the UK are far too high, so on a trip to Singapore i brought one, boxed receipt ect!
It worked fine out there an no matter what i do with it here its not working, so i have flushed it, and changed various settings and unlocked it but it has never worked as a phone.
This is just another throw of the dice.
So will all the people thinking im a freaking mugger or two bit crim, please stay away when the grown folks are talking!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Nas said:
will this ever happen!!!!!!!!!
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It happened a long time ago. This forum is not the right place to search for.
I can sell you IMEI resetting tool which works fine for both XDAs. It doesn't change your IMEI to desired one, but replaces your number with 0000-s.
Get your resetting tool today only for 99,99$! PM me anyway!

-if you want to be anonymous, you are using a prepaid card
-but, with an imsi catcher anyone (who does own such a device) can listen to your calls
-the guy behind the catcher does some filtering regarding the sim-number "guess" - and also the imei of your device
-so your are "transparent" with your prepayd-cards and also your imei.
-card changing is not that big problem, but doing this with new phones every 2 weeks or so is not fine.
-this cardf/imei changing does not regard only illegal activitys/criminals.
-imsi catcers are not only used by police, etc. - also from criminals, so it is an useable part of keeping your secrets (think about an top manager, ....)
if anyone is interested:
a imsi-catcher does nothing as simulating an gsm-Cell - doing some forwarding to the real network.
but:
the imsi-catcher doe have more tx-power, as other cells in the area, so the phone connects to the catcher.
the imsi-catcher uses not encrypted communication witch the phone, so the calls can be logged without any problems. (i only know the siemes S4 (S10to?), telling you, if the communication is not encrypted)
sorry for my bad english

It will be changed if you change your mazard board,,,,,,

SPB Clone - Nag Screen Removal

SPB Clone is a fine bit of software. It makes a full ghost copy of your BA that you can reinstall after a hard reset - all the registry settings, installed software. etc.
The demo version is fully working but after installing via a clone you get a nag screen that continually pops up to remind you to buy the software.
Because I was so impressed with SPB Clone, I wrote to SPB to ask them if they could provide me with a single user licence at a less painful price, since the PDA I was cloning was actually my phone, and I'm not a big company with many PDAs. They told me that, sadly, SPB Clone was only available on an enterprise licence but then they told me how to remove the nag screen....
1. Open the folder \Windows\StartUp in File Explorer.
2. Tap and Hold and select View All Files.
3. Select bootupdt.exe and select Cut from context menu.
4. Change to the root folder "\" and tap and hold on the empty space within folder view. Select Paste from context menu.
5. Soft reset.
6. Remove bootupdt.exe from the root folder.

And you were not able to find this out yourself?
Last year when I had my tires changed the clerk put a sign on my inner mirror to come back in 50km. And there was of course an ad on the sticker. Your post is like "Hey, today I opened my car and pulled the sticker of the mirror. You won't believe: I've got clear sight again!"

Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...

@tintoy: Generosity? I consider this being spam. Nobody wants new posts about "I now know how to reboot!" or "My how-to: Plugging USB cable in". I would accept those kinda posts if he'd just tell about product X, which is cheaper than Y but has same or more features like A, B, C. Only hassle you have to solve is to remove [filename] from autostart.

Chatty said:
And you were not able to find this out yourself?
Last year when I had my tires changed the clerk put a sign on my inner mirror to come back in 50km. And there was of course an ad on the sticker. Your post is like "Hey, today I opened my car and pulled the sticker of the mirror. You won't believe: I've got clear sight again!"
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Oh, well I'm terribly sorry that my lo-tech post offends your obviously tender, high-brow sensibilities.
God help you if someone with less knowledge than you asks you a question face-to-face; I'd imagine they'd deck you with an attitude like yours.
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful, although it's obviously far, far beneath someone who is clearly an IT deity. Please allow me to prostrate myself before you - in fact, I'm genuflecting before my monitor even now!
Mind you; your grammar, spelling and punctuation aren't up to much. If you're going to slight someone on a written forum, at least make sure you can write, eh?

tintoy said:
Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...
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Click to collapse
I'm a firm believer in freedom of information.
SPB gave me this information because I am a single user.
I have provided this information to other single users.
If an unscrupulous company wishes to use unlicensed software, possibly risking prosecution, that's their remit, not mine.

madcapmagician said:
Oh, well I'm terribly sorry that my lo-tech post offends your obviously tender, high-brow sensibilities.
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Ok, your're starting to get insulting. That's why I'll answer the last time to this thread.
madcapmagician said:
God help you if someone with less knowledge than you asks you a question face-to-face; I'd imagine they'd deck you with an attitude like yours.
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This is not comparable because this is a forum, not a chat. Most questions can be answered by just searching the forum. And I was not against your post in whole but about the way you described it.
madcapmagician said:
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful, although it's obviously far, far beneath someone who is clearly an IT deity. Please allow me to prostrate myself before you - in fact, I'm genuflecting before my monitor even now!
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Farcical. No comment.
madcapmagician said:
Mind you; your grammar, spelling and punctuation aren't up to much. If you're going to slight someone on a written forum, at least make sure you can write, eh?
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Click to collapse
Here you stepped over the line. If you ain't got no further arguments (if there has been at least one already) you start to insult people. That will make you look respectable, indeed. Although English is not my mother tongue I do speak more than one language. How many do you speak? (Not that I'm really interested.)

Chatty said:
Ok, your're starting to get insulting.
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Your original post was both rude and insulting, hence my reply.
This is not comparable because this is a forum, not a chat.
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How so? Do you not bring your manners to a forum? You are, in effect, saying that because you cannot see your fellow forumers face-to-face you feel you do not have to be polite to them.....and you then get upset when they are impolite back to you.
Most questions can be answered by just searching the forum.
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Why do you assume I didn't? Again, you are being insulting. I scoured the web to find the answer, like most other noobs would do. From the way you wrote, I got the impression you are very IT-literate - well, I am not and there are many others like me. My post is for them.
And I was not against your post in whole but about the way you described it.
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Then I suggest you re-read your first post: in your head, when you typed it, it may have sounded witty and polite and to-the-point; that is not how it came across. If you felt my description was at fault, you should have said so, rather than making rude, tangential comments.
madcapmagician said:
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful
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Just to reiterate the point.
Here you stepped over the line.
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Agreed, although in my head, when I typed it, it was quid pro quo.
I will publicly apologise here and now for being rude.
Please understand that there is nothing berating in this post - I am merely trying to articulate myself without you being able to physically hear my voice.

madcapmagician said:
Hey guys, I know a way that you can get the hard work of dozens of developers for free. Heck they gave it to me, and so it is implied that they want me to share it with the entire internet. Aren't I morally and ethically bankrupt?
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Yes, you are.
Chatty said:
There is this tire change sticker in my car that is driving me batty
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Hmmm, interesting
tintoy said:
Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...
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Chatty said:
Generosity? Huh...spam. X, Y, uh A, B, C, Marco, polo
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Exsqueezeme
madcapmagician said:
Everyone marvel at my use of polysyllabic word play. I am the master of the keyboard. Chatty, my swing thing is bigger than yours.
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madcapmagician again said:
I am a firm believer in freedom of unscrupulousness. It was granted to us in the 18th ammendment to the Constitution. SPB gave me the information because I am single minded and they have no desire to make money. They are actually just out to provide a community service.
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Wow, excellent points, all of them!
Chatty Cathy said:
Actually my swing thing is bigger. And I speak multiple languages, just not very well. A donde esta la casa de pepe?
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Stunning!
madcapmagician said:
Why are you rude to me just because I was rude to you? Don't you understand the consequences of disturbing the molecular dismobilization of the antisymmetric wave function? Egad man. Let me cut loose some more words from my Microsoft Word thesaurus...prostrate, genuflecting, forumers (huh?), tangential, exoskeletal, plebiscite. Take that!
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Click to collapse
Do you guys know how tired the rest of us are of this kind of non-productive grade school banter? I am waiting for the "your momma" insults to start any minute. Can someone please delete this thread.

The original post in this thread was a useful piece of information on how to remove the nag screen on a piece of software.
It was not a "How-to" on rebooting or plugging in a USB cable, and i am sure that anyone who wants to use the SPB Clone would be grateful for this information.
The fact that you either didnt understand what the post was about or didnt care doesnt mean you have to immediately flame the poster, if you have no use for the information in a certain thread just move on to the next thread. Trading insults back and forth is the biggest spam anyone could expect to see in a forum, especially this one, which provides so much good information to those of us who use these devices.

I continue to be floored by people's casual attitude toward trading software keys, hacking apps, and getting around nag screens. If the developer did not want you to see the nag screen then he/she WOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT THERE. If the developer gave instructions to one user on how to remove the nag, then great...what a nice developer/company. But unless they expressly gave that person permission to post it out to potentially thousands of people then it is JUST PLAIN WRONG. There is no gray area here, folks. Most of us have to live in a grown-up world and are tired of the impacts that other people's adolescent, situational ethics imposes on us. Do unto others...

cw6447 said:
I continue to be floored by people's casual attitude toward trading software keys, hacking apps, and getting around nag screens. If the developer did not want you to see the nag screen then he/she WOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT THERE. If the developer gave instructions to one user on how to remove the nag, then great...what a nice developer/company. But unless they expressly gave that person permission to post it out to potentially thousands of people then it is JUST PLAIN WRONG. There is no gray area here, folks. Most of us have to live in a grown-up world and are tired of the impacts that other people's adolescent, situational ethics imposes on us. Do unto others...
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I agree with you on the ethics of "stealing" software, my main complaint here was the instant flaming that madcapmagician received after posting, that is not what this community is about. he was not posting a "how-to" on the process of rebooting, he was relaying the information given to him as he received it, i think that the information can be used by those who are ok with "stealing" software and those who disagree can just disregard the information. If the mods decide that the information shouldnt be here they have the power to remove it.

Forgive me for carrying on with this ridiculous and pointless conversation but is it not in fact illegal to unlock contract mobile phones? Would the cellular providers be happy for 1000's of people to remove their branding and software from devices which they have sold? If the software company had not wanted to help the individual then they would not have told him to start with. I am sure that nobody is so special that a software company would whisper information into his ear that they didn't want to be made common knowledge.
This is a tech support forum, it has helped me as well as many, many other people. If you want to start talking about wrong, immoral, illegal or any other description you may have then start looking at what other people are doing.
I appreciate this forum, and it's members. For crying out loud, stop arguing and get on with the job in hand.

Zylo, I agree with you in one regard. The post is perfectly legit insomuch as it is helpful and technically related. But only for people without a conscience. Bret, you are symptomatic of this new generation of kids with no personal accountability in life. To pretend that you can guess that a software company doesn't mind you giving away their software for free is ludicrous. madcap probably got ahold of some sales guy who thought it would be nice to do him a favor. Do you think the owners, investors or developers would have told him to feel free to post it on forums around the internet? Why not take that info and sell it for a profit on eBay? Or better yet why not just sell the software as your own? If they were giving you a free copy then they wouldn't mind you doing whatever you want with it. Right? You see, you keep blurring the lines of common decency to the point where eventually anything goes. You won't understand until someday you actually become a responsible citizen, start your own business, and put your hard-earned money and time out on the line. I bet when the leeches and thieves come after your product you will have a whole different attitude. The "right thing" to do in this case is so easy and obvious. I fear for a world where people can't make that distinction.

Sorry if what i said came across as a flaming. It was not intended as such. I'm just aware that softweare companies have many employees, from designers to developers to marketing people to managers. Of all these people the ones who seeme to have the most alturistitc (read non commercially-minded) approach always seem to be the developers. They are typically just concerned with writing good software and makng it work. If you asked a developer for a free copy of his/her software for 'testing' they'd probally give it to you without complaint! If, however, you asked them if they'd like their contract to end at the end of its term becuase you were going to make the software they wrote completly unprofitable by telling everyone how to get it for free they might be slightly less generous!

Your points have been taken on board but for the record, I work for a small, local mobile phone dealer. How much business do you think we lose from people unlocking phones, and therefore not returning to us?
I'm not saying that is right or wrong but what I am saying is that it is illegal. It is stealing from the provider and taking profits away from independant dealers. Also, how are you to know that my own business did not fail due to non-payers? You obviously open your mouth before engaging your brain. I could not recover the debts owed to my company and it resulted in the business closing. Is that not also theft?
If you want to target anyone go for the real criminals who sell ripped off software and DVD's on the Sunday markets. They are the real problem, not one guy who has made a very small post who has admitted to have lttle understanding of what he has done. I'm sure you have now all alienated him so he will never return to this site again.
Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.

Yeah. Can we consider this conversation over?
Please don't be offended by my posts @madcapmagician, I was just making a point, not trying to demonise you! I would imagine there is even a fairly decent discsussion that could be had about what consitutes ripping off software and what consitutes fair use...

I found my original e-mail and SPB’s reply:
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerzy Bulowski
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:01 pm
To: [email protected]
Subject: Clone
Dear Sir or Madam,
I recently downloaded your demo of Clone and have to say that, already, it has served me well after my phone required a hard reset the other day.
I was so impressed that I decided to purchase a copy but was absolutely horrified to see the price of $199. Whilst I can appreciate that Clone is suited to large businesses with many corporate PDAs, I am a single user - the PDA in question is actually my HTC Blue Angel mobile phone - and I was wondering whether you could sell me a single-licence version for a price more similar to what you charge for Pocket Plus?
If this is not possible could you tell me how long the annoying reminder screen will continue to pop up on my phone?
I look forward to your reply.
Regards,
Jerzy Bulowski
Hello Jerzy,
Spb Clone is enterprise product and there's not any "single user" licenses.
How to remove the nag screen in your case:
1. Open folder \Windows\StartUp in File Explorer. 2. Tap and Hold and select View All files. 3. Select bootupd.exe and select Cut from context menu. 4. Change to the root folder "\" and tap-n-hold on the empty space within folder view. Select "Paste" from context menu. 5. Soft reset. 6. Remove bootupd.exe from the root folder.
Best regards,
Alexander Shalin
Customer Support Team
Spb Software House
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.spbsoftwarehouse.com
Phone: +7 812 324 49 44
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Bret, perhaps I should point out that you can download SPB Clone for free from their website, as a demo version. Corporate customers, if they liked it, would then buy a licensed copy for $199.00 – I have “stolen” nothing.
Chris - As far as the ethics of posting said information in the public domain are concerned, my conscience is clear. This information is for single users, like myself. If an unscrupulous company wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine.
Tintoy – I’m not offended. It was Chatty’s immediate, condescending, demeaning post that riled me. Zylograth said what I should have, instead of replying as I did:
The fact that you either didn’t understand what the post was about or didn’t care doesn’t mean you have to immediately flame the poster, if you have no use for the information in a certain thread just move on to the next thread.
Click to expand...
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And that’s that!

AFAIK I think it's still open to debate whether we discuss cracking. I'm happy to talk about cracking, but not cracks.
Odeean makes a good point that cracking and reversing is part of the education of programming; if you're a commercial developer, or would be one, it's worth knowing weaknesses and pitfalls.
People shouldn't come on here and say "wantttt - crack for thai-g" etc. That's just silly and damn lazy. If you don't know how to get warez, you should be using a Motorola, not even a Nokia. But you should be rewarding programmers, or you should understand when there aren't programmers left to program because they've all gone broke. (And I'm not just talking about cash.. we don't all program for the $$)
But if you want to learn how to crack thai-g, search, ask nicely, or learn and tell. But don't distribute cracks (at least publically). There are other boards for that, and we have enough trouble keeping this board clean enough now-a-days
V

Take it like a man!
Madcap, my almost 3-year old daughter tries to make equally bad logic when I have caught her sneaking a cookie before supper. If you were in court you would be your own worst enemy. The email from spb said "How to remove the nag screen in YOUR case". Not "in your case and EVERY other person you can broadcast it to". Show me where he added, "And please feel free to share this with other single users". ONCE AGAIN, if they did not expressly permit you to give this to other people then it is just plain wrong! No, not illegal...it's the spb CSR's ignorant fault for giving it out to you. Let's say you are standing behind a guy in line at the QuickTrip. You witness the cashier ring up his order, but forget to ring up his Snickers bar. When the customer makes the cashier aware of the error, the cashier says,"Oh that's ok, just go ahead and take it." Does that then give you the right to grab a Snickers bar and put it in your pocket without paying for it? If one person got a freebie then everyone should get it, right? How long do you think QuickTrip will survive giving away it's products? It really isn't any different. Software is intangible property that should be treated as tangible. Just because you can get away with it doesn't mean you should. It is just like all of the thieves who thought downloading music they did not pay for was OK. It wasn't...still isn't...never will be.
As for your equally weak argument of, "If an unscrupulous company wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine." Let's take the same QuickTrip. While you are at the counter paying for your snacks (except for the Snickers bar tucked into your pocket), you oversee another employee opening the safe behind the counter. Because of your excellent eyesight and brilliant mind, you see and remember the combination. When you get home you go out to the SafesAndVaultsDevelopers.com forums and post about the dummy at QuickTrip opening up the safe right in front of everyone. You also post the combination to the safe because "if an unscrupulous person wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine." Great logic. I wish I could send you to time-out like I can my daughter.
Try this. Reply back to spb. Tell that same Customer Service Rep that you are posting this hack on all of the popular PDA sites on the internet. And copy the support group at spb, too. After they respond to you, post their letter back here. I will be waiting to see the response.
Now I know you would never have posted the above spb info on a site where you thought "unscrupulous" people could visit and get hold of it. I mean, what jerk in their right mind would do that to a company and possibly expose them to real dollar losses? So since you know everyone here is trustworthy, why don't you go ahead and post your email account password, your xda forum password, and the PIN to your ATM account on here. Throw in your momma's phone number for grins. We won't do anything bad with it.
Am I going off on you? Yes. When someone tries to make a clearly black and white argument grey, and aggressively attempts to defend that indefensible position over and again, they deserve to be called out. Take it like a man.

XDA censored on Softbank's password?

Maybe I am not good anymore at searching using Google, but there was a recent thread posting Softbank's password for flat fee plan that seems to have completely disappeared...
Am I completely paranoid or this thread has just been deleted?

why?
Alcibiade said:
Maybe I am not good anymore at searching using Google, but there was a recent thread posting Softbank's password for flat fee plan that seems to have completely disappeared...
Am I completely paranoid or this thread has just been deleted?
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Click to collapse
not paranoid, man. Sobody complained and the post was censored out. Now, I wonder why XDA would bother doing that when once the cat has been let out of the bag, the thing could end up on any web page. I just don't get it. Consider also that the guy who posted it found it on a Japanese site (where softbank are more likely to find it posted, since it is in Japanes, right? So if the point of censoring it was to ensure that softbank did not change the password (again) then that failed.... since the thing is still out in the wild. Anyway, I just dont get it.

That may e true, but XDA could still get its backside kicked and have legal problems if Softbank found out. The legalities could very well mean the end of XDA...
Better to cover your arse than bend over knowing the foots coming...
Cheers...

XDA is not hosted in Japan as far as I know...
Very difficult for Softbank to go far on any kind of legal action (Except sueing the guy who posted the apssword since in all likeliness he is living in Japan...)
Nevermind, I was wise enough to save it
Thinking about purchasing a Touch HD and using this password to use it in Japan... since I believe it wont be available in Japan before a while
Or I ll just be lazy and buy the Touch Pro from Softbank (Will cost me less but the phone is a bit more bulky..)

When is the Touch Pro coming to Softbank? Oh, did you know about the Touch Diamond over at E-mobile? (only 100 yen up front for a 2 yr contact, 2000 a month rental). Anyway, together with all-you-can-eat data, phone, rental you pay between 5-7 thousand yen a month, from memory. Oh and the actually encourage you to use theirs in conjunction with a computer (as a wireless) at no extra cost. Might be the way to go.....
http://emobile.jp/products/ht/s21ht/
Or, any other suggestions/dates of when touch HD etc are coming to Japan would be great. I heard AU were getting the Raphael early next year... that's as much as I know.

Hello everyone,
we were discussing with larsuck on the best way to make this info available. It's not censorship, it's just people wanted that Softbank be aware of it at the latest time possible.
So I asked by myself to remove my thread. No pressure of Softbank. I just get "pressured" from Xda-Dev users. I was angry at some point. But now I can see the point. If anyone need some info, PM larsuck or me.
Toni
Edit : for anyone who needs explanations, please go to larsuck excellent post http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441400
Everything is clarified.

Verizon Note 4 Rooted!! Check description

As I was searching the Internet today I came across this! Can anyone verify it??
http://www.usoftsmartphone.com/t410056.html

For some reason I have my doubts about this. Not just that, but there is no link anywhere, just screenshots, which can be easily faked. This kind of thing happens in the gaming console arena all the time. People just do it for attention. Until a recognized developer we KNOW (on here preferrably......hsbadr????) can confirm this, Im going to rule it as fake.

chevycam94 said:
For some reason I have my doubts about this. Not just that, but there is no link anywhere, just screenshots, which can be easily faked. This kind of thing happens in the gaming console arena all the time. People just do it for attention. Until a recognized developer we KNOW (on here preferrably......hsbadr????) can confirm this, Im going to rule it as fake.
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Although, he has some petty good video of startup, reboot, and maintaining root...as well as showing root checker etc. so time will tell.

The guys a FRAUD. The XDA mods locked down his thread cause he was posting lies about permanent root which he willfully failed to show verity upon request. He is only looking for attention by means of "Thanks." pay him no attention. He's a troll. lol

Farse
This looks like a waste of time...delete.

So there is no reliable system yet to root the Note 4?

They way most of you have been treating and talking about this guy, if I were him and really did have the solution, I'd say "eff ya".

plainbum said:
They way most of you have been treating and talking about this guy, if I were him and really did have the solution, I'd say "eff ya".
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Agreed. I don't understand why everyone is so uppity. What's the harm in just being patient and having a "wait and see" attitude, instead of calling him a fraud and dropping the ban hammer just because he hasn't revealed details yet. Unless we know for certain that he hasn't achieved root, then I don't think we should push him away, even if we don't like his methods. Keep in mind that there is a language barrier here also, so there may be some misunderstanding.

He already said many times he wasn't going to release it. He said it would hurt his business and Samsung would patch it.
Which translates to I've found something that will work on many Samsung devices so if I release it I won't be able to use it to make money in my business, because having a solution for only the Verizon note 4 is not going to do his business much good as he is from outside US.

spocko said:
Agreed. I don't understand why everyone is so uppity. What's the harm in just being patient and having a "wait and see" attitude, instead of calling him a fraud and dropping the ban hammer just because he hasn't revealed details yet. Unless we know for certain that he hasn't achieved root, then I don't think we should push him away, even if we don't like his methods. Keep in mind that there is a language barrier here also, so there may be some misunderstanding.
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All you have to do is look at his past post. He did the same thing with an LG device. Posting he has achieved root when he had not. When the mods finally asked him to provide proof he declined to answer. When he's been contacted on his site, his number, etc, etc, he declines to answer the question and left the LG community it's in a complete disarray. We don't need people posting root achieved notices just to get their thanks scores higher. The Note 4 community it's has been thru enough already. And if it was going to hurt his business to release the method, then why release I've achieved root. No thanks, the guys a complete fraud.

I can appreciate that reasoning, thanks.
Here a genuine question, not trying to be argumentative:
How is this situation with vnmobile different than the video posted showing the Galaxy S5 bootloader unlock?
http://www.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5-bootloader-has-been-unlocked/
It appears that this dev (beaups) does not plan to release his methods either, yet he is not treated with the same disdain as vnmobile. Granted it appears that beaups has earned respect previously, but at the end of the day the same question remains: what is the purpose of sharing the video?

This guy definitely a fraud. His real name is Ngoc Vu and he's running a business selling tech equipments in Vietnam. Let me throw a few things on the table here.
1) Language barrier issue - Nope I speak his language and had visit his website and his facebood page. Just full of shi...
2)Hurt his business if he released the root fix? Another bull sh... 2 ways he could make money. a) release the fix and collect over 20k cash from XDA b) Offer a service to root the phone with a fee. Guess what? none existed.
Summary - he just want to drive traffic to his web site, and make his business more visible to the world specially XDA where everyone interested in cell phone/tablet and electronic equipments. Case closed!

i just saw this post. And i confirmed he is a Vietnamese guys. like me. ^^
But i am so surprise, because he used the Booloader and ROM from "hsbadr" of XDA forum.
- This is the post of HERO "hsbadr" (By hsbadr, Recognized Developer / Recognized Contributor on 13th August 2015, 10:46 PM) : http://forum.xda-developers.com/not...nt/firmware-safe-upgrade-to-lollipop-t3178148
------------------------AND this the post of the guy in Vietnam ^^ (it was 31-10-2015, 06:02 PM ) . in Asia country like Vietnam, the Day is first, then the Month. So his video was Oct 31,2015. After "hsbadr" released his tutorial. ^^ i wish i can upload photo for you guys.
http://vietfones.vn/forum/showthread.php?1047158
This: "N910VVRU2BOG5 - Android 5.0.1 : Fri, 31 Jul 2015" is f-u-c-king fake ^^
Pls Forgive him!!!