This things worries me a little: when you use the fingerpring sensor, the brightness in its position is set to the maximum.
Couldn't this lead to screen burn-in?
Eventually. Organic LEDs have a finite lifespan.
White and blue are the highest damaging colors.
Blue pixels have the shortest lifespan, while the lower energy red generally have the longest.
As the blue pixels start to fade it will cause a gradually worsening color balance and white point shift.
Obviously the brighter and longer they run, the shorter they last.
Will it matter? Depends how long you keep the phone. Blue pixels probably have a lifespan of at least 5000 hours or more... probably.
If you use it a lot in direct sunlight, the outlook may not be so good.
Personally I avoid buying used AMOLED phones because of this. I set my brightness manually and rarely exceed 50%. If used in sunlight it's for seconds and I avoid that almost completely. Results, after close to 2.5 years of heavy usage my N10+ shows no display damage or degradation. Looks identical to my new N10+'s display and with ScreenTest.
gpvecchi said:
This things worries me a little: when you use the fingerpring sensor, the brightness in its position is set to the maximum.
Couldn't this lead to screen burn-in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theoretically, yes.
It's also important to keep in mind that burn-in works cumulative, so that means only the "absolute" number of screen-on time counts. Meaning - let's say we have a fixed point, where after 5000 hours of white we'll get burn in, it doesn't matter whether you had
5000 days with 1 hour of total white usage, or
1000 days with 5 hour of total white usage, or
500 days with 10 hour of total white usage.
Burn-in is inevitable, but will probably not affect you in the lifetime of your product (1-3, maybe 1-4 years I guess). Also keep in mind that simply unlocking your phone is relatively fast in terms of "time", meaning the total cumulative hours of pixel-wear in that spot will be significantly shorter than, say, the white background of browser tabs that you scroll through for years. Even though the brightness of the pixel has significant value, meaning the brighter an OLED gets, the faster it will wear. Meaning that the fingerprint-part of the display (shining bright as daylight) will wear much faster than other pixels.
It should also be noted that organic LEDs are susceptible to outside influence, mainly heat by light (sunlight). Meaning if you place your phone in direct sunlight, the display will "age" faster.
The best thing that you can do to avoid burn-in is vary content, since that will cause a more uniform wear across the board. Meaning you should not use an OLED panel as a secondary display to display a sport channel 24/7, for example.
Practically, I only hear about burn-in when reading about used products, that are being sold to people "second hand".
The tech is getting better and better and there are certain measures taken by the manufacturers to avoid burn-in (just take a look at Google, they always went for the low brightness path with their pixels - both to save battery life (probably since that one was always bad) and to avoid burn-in).
It should also be kept in mind that ALL display technologies age. Even a "normal" LED will age in time. They stop functioning, lose color accuracy, become less bright... this whole burn-in "fear" has been blown out of proportion for years now, since I have not come across one single pixel tech that did not lose quality with time. All displays need to be replaced "short"-term (5-10 years usually). Maybe Micro-LEDs will save us, but that only time can tell. Even though, practically, often another part of a device dies, before the display becomes completely unusable (mainboard battery, some processor, maybe the RAM, faulty flash chip, etc). Meaning that because a modern device consists out of 10000 different parts - and all of these can fail - and many single failures can have catastrophic consequence for the "overall" usability of a device, giving so much focus on one single thing ("burn-in") is a bit ridicolous (not talking about you specifically here, but overall the fact that the burn-in question is arising in every forum sub I know when OLEDs are concerned, especially since Samsung started their anti-OLED marketing campaign years ago, even though they backtracked on that one, since they now want to sell OLED TVs aswell).
There are several things that are much more important to the longevity of a device, like: Decent flash drives and RAM (just look at all the old pixels dying overnight, because the storage part dies without warning - displays had nothing to do with that), easy battery replacement, good after market part availability, low repair prices. These are the things customers should worry about, not burn-in. When burn-in becomes a "real" problem, the rest of the phone will already be half-dead.
I mostly agree with Morgrain, but I do feel you treaded a bit too close to excusing away the disposable nature of OLED in the way that you said "but all display tech does this". Yes, it does, but with LCD, it generally has AT LEAST double the lifespan (and usually quadruple or more). LCD Computer monitors and even smartphones from an entire decade ago still look as good as new, and it's only around 15-20 years or so that delamination and yellowing glue and plastic really set in (EG polycarbonate MacBook screens from the late 2000s). Sure, what you say is very true, but it's important to remember that an OLED phone screen used at medium to max brightness for many hours a day will show burn in within 2-4 years, whereas the only aging that would have occured and LCD with similar usage is a lowering in brightness that is undetectable in normal user. I say this as someone with a Galaxy S5 with horrible burn in and an LG V20 that has gotten exponentially more use that has no burn in and still is very bright and vibrant. OLED is one of the biggest planned obsolescence tricks in modern times, since it supersedes the battery as the first part of the phone to age beyond usability (now that most phones have 4000+ mAh batteries). In an age with regressive software design (coughs in Android 12) and missing features (coughs in Galaxy S22 series) there's less of a reason than every to upgrade, and 5 year old phones are still faster and nicer than even some midrange phones, so imagine how useful a high end phone released in 2022 will be in a decade (very usable, the software and the screen will be artificial limitations that force users to upgrade even though it has plenty of power under the hood).
On the other hand, after 4 years, your battery will also be replacement worthy. Ye, it will still be usable due to large capacity and fast charging but it aint easy changing a habit of your battery lasting 2 days back to 1 day. Also i wouldnt fast charge a 4 year Li-ion without a fire extinguisher nearby, not at crazy W of today anyway.
At 4 year mark, you can refurbish your old amoled flagship with a new battery and a screen which will cost about as much as 1/2 price of an entry almost mid range phone (~150e) and you basically get a new phone (like, objectivelly). I mean i hate OLED obsolence as much as the next guy but playing it "smart" it can actually work ok. You can replace that S5 amoled for like 30$. Those screens are actually cheap as **** they just follow the trend price of the phone. I got Xiaomi 13 recently and RN replacemnt is ~250$, yikes. Next year its gonna be close to 150 and 4 years in it will be 100$ at best ($/eur, not gonna go into economics).
Bottom line, yeah, a premium segment LCD over amoled for phones, any day, but it aint as bad as it seems at a glance.
Related
I just came across to this forum thread:
http://androidforums.com/htc-desire/59486-amoled-black-wallpaper-battery-saved.html
This was also my question some times ago when I start checking HTC Desire.
Anyone can do this kind of experiment? Because if this true and have significant impact on battery level, it could be a really good way to get more juices. We know that HTC Desire battery live is not that amazing.
Benchmarking could be very simple like this:
Code:
1. Use bright wallpaper with a lot of white color and [B][COLOR="Blue"]set the brightness at maximum[/COLOR][/B]
2. [B][COLOR="Blue"]Set your phone to NOT turn-off screen automatically[/COLOR][/B]
3. Write down your battery level at start
4. Leave it turned-on for 1 hour or more and do nothing
5. Compare the battery level
You should get the battery level differences.
Then do it again with complete black background.
Or better, you can do this overnight. Just write down the start-time and battery level of the experiment and compare at the end.
We should be able to calculate the battery drain per minute!
PS: I will do this, but I have not received my HTC Desire yet
the following quote is from wikipedia
Power consumption
While an OLED will consume around 40% of the power of an LCD displaying an image which is primarily black, for the majority of images, it will consume 60–80% of the power of an LCD - however it can use over three times as much power to display an image with a white background[53] such as a document or website. This can lead to disappointing real-world battery life in mobile devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and check the following chart (not from wikipeda, from other website)
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And this is the complete presentation from Irkan post:
http://data.4dsystems.com.au/downloads/micro-OLED/Docs/4D_AMOLED_Presentation.pdf
See on page 17 for example (image attached).
I am really sure that using black background will have quite significant different on battery life. Note that this is the main reason on Microsoft Windows Phone 7, to use mainly black background.
Now, can anyone who already own HTC Desire do the "real-world" test that I suggested above?
We need to know how this power saving translated to more hour/minute battery power
since i got my phone i been using the carbon/black background but because its been only about 2 charges my battery hopefully isnt at its best yet but each time after a battery i will change the background for basic testing
cez10 said:
since i got my phone i been using the carbon/black background but because its been only about 2 charges my battery hopefully isnt at its best yet but each time after a battery i will change the background for basic testing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your battery won't get better after more charges. It's at its best now and only degrade from now on. It's the chemistry of a lithium battery
Why would a black background give battery results over night when the screen is not being used, that's nonsense.
A black background only helps you a bit. Once you run an app or start browsing the effect is mostly gone.
It will help in some way for sure, especially when you use the home screen a lot. But it won't be earth shattering...
Still, the amoled screen should save power in most other situations as well when you look at the pic posted earlier.
RaptorRVL said:
Your battery won't get better after more charges. It's at its best now and only degrade from now on. It's the chemistry of a lithium battery
Why would a black background give battery results over night when the screen is not being used, that's nonsense.
A black background only helps you a bit. Once you run an app or start browsing the effect is mostly gone.
It will help in some way for sure, especially when you use the home screen a lot. But it won't be earth shattering...
Still, the amoled screen should save power in most other situations as well when you look at the pic posted earlier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
does the battery require calibration(fully discharge) when you receive the phone?
I think HTC should immediately, AT LEAST give an option, to view all their Sense application in reverse colors (black background). If you note,
-People
-Messages
-Mail
-Calendar
-Photos...
-Adding to it the Android Market
They ALL use white backgrounds! And these are the applications mostly used.
It doesn't make sense they missed that.
All in all ... I still can't see the sense behind using AMOLED. It's really disappointing.
cez10 said:
does the battery require calibration(fully discharge) when you receive the phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that could be yes. But that depends really. That would be the only reason why the battery might 'improve'. But, I would assume that the phone will only shut down when the battery reaches a certain voltage. Until that point the percentage just falls down fast, but stays about the same in the lower percentages.
So, it could be useful to fully charge the first time and then wait/use until the phone shuts down. Then fully charge and hope the device has a nice average to show reliable percentages
salahag said:
I think HTC should immediately, AT LEAST give an option, to view all their Sense application in reverse colors (black background). If you note,
-People
-Messages
-Mail
-Calendar
-Photos...
-Adding to it the Android Market
They ALL use white backgrounds! And these are the applications mostly used.
It doesn't make sense they missed that.
All in all ... I still can't see the sense behind using AMOLED. It's really disappointing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because on average the amoled will be much more efficient. And there are more things that influence battery life.
Besides that, most people like white backgrounds much more than black ones
Grey might be a nice option. I wonder it going to 80% from white will also save around 20% of power.
RaptorRVL said:
Well, that could be yes. But that depends really. That would be the only reason why the battery might 'improve'. But, I would assume that the phone will only shut down when the battery reaches a certain voltage. Until that point the percentage just falls down fast, but stays about the same in the lower percentages.
So, it could be useful to fully charge the first time and then wait/use until the phone shuts down. Then fully charge and hope the device has a nice average to show reliable percentages
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok well so far i charged it with the phone off just after i received it for about 1.30h then bout 8h later I started charging while using it for a bit and then switched it off to continue charging 'overnight'. started using it heavily at 8 this morning (mainly wifi) and now its 4 and its on 37% so reckon will easily die before midnight so then can calibrate it over night
RaptorRVL said:
Because on average the amoled will be much more efficient. And there are more things that influence battery life.
Besides that, most people like white backgrounds much more than black ones
Grey might be a nice option. I wonder it going to 80% from white will also save around 20% of power.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, it's a combination of things that we should optimize for best power durability. Yes I think gray is nice and should make a difference in power
But I disagree that it's more efficient on average, most applications have a white background, most websites have a white background, even if you use a dark wallpaper, it won't be there most of your time using the phone.
Also photos must have a relatively large black portion to use less power than LCDs.
I like the desire and was waiting for it for some time now, just disappointed. I'll wait for someone to make that background test and decide if I will buy it or probably buy it
salahag said:
I agree, it's a combination of things that we should optimize for best power durability. Yes I think gray is nice and should make a difference in power
But I disagree that it's more efficient on average, most applications have a white background, most websites have a white background, even if you use a dark wallpaper, it won't be there most of your time using the phone.
Also photos must have a relatively large black portion to use less power than LCDs.
I like the desire and was waiting for it for some time now, just disappointed. I'll wait for someone to make that background test and decide if I will buy it or probably buy it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are making too much out of it.
Try to look at it from a different angle, all the text in those screens (usually black) save you energy! So the more text you get, the less energy it costs! A normal lcd always uses the same amount of energy.
Perhaps someone should measure the amount of 'black' being used in a text only e-mail (within the screen). And then you get a nice estimate of how much power the screen will actually use. Maybe I will do it when I find some time for it
In most cases (any other case than full white background) the AMOLED is better than TFT (more colorful, saves more power, ... etc).
so if the "white background power consumption" is an excuse for you to not get an AMOLED, than think again
irkan said:
In most cases (any other case than full white background) the AMOLED is better than TFT (more colorful, saves more power, ... etc).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm really not convinced that the Desire's AMOLED is better than TFT in any way. This is why not:
1) The longevity of these displays is questionable. From wikipedia: "AMOLED displays are prone to material degradation. However technology has been invented to circumvent this problem. Whether these mechanisms have been implemented in current applications of AMOLED displays is unknown, as are potential effects on power consumption."
2) Less accurate colour reproduction due to pixels being RRGBBG rather than the RGBRGB pattern on normal screens. The AMOLED RRGBBG pattern is used to try to avoid material degradation.
3) The Desire's 800*480 AMOLED screen does not have the same sharpness/resolution as a TFT 800*480 screen since any one pixel can not display the full range of colours (see 2). This is particularly noticeable with white text since it takes two pixels to display a white colour instead of one on a normal screen.
4) Power consumption in practice is not any better. This is proved by the fact that the HD2 has 35% more screen area powered by a 12% smaller battery, yet the battery life is at least comparable if not better.
5) Do you really want a display that makes you think twice about showing anything that's white because it'll drain the battery 3 times as fast? It would be like living in a house where you're scared to turn the lights on! Fine if you're a Goth and live in a dark world I suppose.
6) AMOLED is supposedly "more colourful" than TFT. I would suggest that "more colourful" = "less true to life". My HD2 colours are very accurate and I wouldn't want them any more colourful. Similarly I could turn the colour up on my TV to make it "more colourful" but I don't because it doesn't look right.
I love these "My thingy is better than you're thingy" debates - they can go on for ever without anyone changing their own opinion! Now if only I could get Android 2.1 with HTC Sense on my HD2...
Moandal said:
I'm really not convinced that the Desire's AMOLED is better than TFT in any way. This is why not:
1) The longevity of these displays is questionable. From wikipedia: "AMOLED displays are prone to material degradation. However technology has been invented to circumvent this problem. Whether these mechanisms have been implemented in current applications of AMOLED displays is unknown, as are potential effects on power consumption."
2) Less accurate colour reproduction due to pixels being RRGBBG rather than the RGBRGB pattern on normal screens. The AMOLED RRGBBG pattern is used to try to avoid material degradation.
3) The Desire's 800*480 AMOLED screen does not have the same sharpness/resolution as a TFT 800*480 screen since any one pixel can not display the full range of colours (see 2). This is particularly noticeable with white text since it takes two pixels to display a white colour instead of one on a normal screen.
4) Power consumption in practice is not any better. This is proved by the fact that the HD2 has 35% more screen area powered by a 12% smaller battery, yet the battery life is at least comparable if not better.
5) Do you really want a display that makes you think twice about showing anything that's white because it'll drain the battery 3 times as fast? It would be like living in a house where you're scared to turn the lights on! Fine if you're a Goth and live in a dark world I suppose.
6) AMOLED is supposedly "more colourful" than TFT. I would suggest that "more colourful" = "less true to life". My HD2 colours are very accurate and I wouldn't want them any more colourful. Similarly I could turn the colour up on my TV to make it "more colourful" but I don't because it doesn't look right.
I love these "My thingy is better than you're thingy" debates - they can go on for ever without anyone changing their own opinion! Now if only I could get Android 2.1 with HTC Sense on my HD2...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you only see the empty half of the cup, and even the other full half that really exists, you deny it.
if you are not convinced that that is your personal opinion, but you have to into consideration the studies that has been shown how AMOLED is more suitable than TFT in some applications (including mobile)
Since you copied wikipedia, i will copy from it and other places
advantages of AMOLED:
1. Thin and light-weight (this allow the mobile phone to be thiner and more compact, and more "MOBILE").
2. Lower power consumption (in almost all the cases but white). this is an advantage not a disadvantage. noone is forcing you to not use white bg, but if you dont use it you will save MORE than usual power, either ways IMO the battery life consumption is better than TFT (even if you used white occasionally, and normally). I highly doubt that anyone would use full pure white screens all the times.
3. better viewing angle, not a biggie, but its better than TFT viewing angle so its an advantage.
4. High color contrast ratio (Black is Black) and the other colors look better and sharper, that is the real "true to life" color, not like TFT where black and other colors are "washed out" (washed out is not true to life btw )
5. High Ambient Contrast Ratio, in fact AMOLED are suppose to look better in ALL conditions including under sun-light, however that feature has been crippled somehow by the manufacturers cuz they added a reflective layer on top of it (to better protect the screen i suppose, not sure). its still +1 for AMOLED in general.
6. Fast response time, the LEDs response faster and better to moving pictures , yes faster than the response time or TFT, AMOLED response <50uS, TFT response 3000~30000uS, so if you wanna see a movie and there is someone very speedy is racing, you will see it blurry in the TFT (and this is different than, CPU power. this is the response time of the display).
7. wide temperature operation, AMOLED can work from
-40 ~85C while TFT from -20 ~70C (I doubt that this will be useful, but hey its an advantage over TFT)
8. Significantly higher Colour Gamut, AMOLED looks brighter, sharper and more visually pleasing when tested under constant color gamut using gray levels
overall, nothing is perfect, .. but its advantages, outweighs its disadvantages
Of course using mostly black colors will not give you over night more battery life. I know that.
But at least it should give you "additional" juices compare to white or bright one.
How much additional? I don't know yet. That's why if someone could test it.
And yeah, we all know that not only the screen will influence battery life But, in this test is about to measure the screen ... so, if you want to test it, turn off all other services like WiFi/GPS/Data.
Or do you think this is silly test? Well, this just for fun and to test the theory
You know, even if it give additional 5% (from 10 hours battery life to 10 and 30 minutes, I would be happy!).
RaptorRVL said:
Your battery won't get better after more charges. It's at its best now and only degrade from now on. It's the chemistry of a lithium battery
Why would a black background give battery results over night when the screen is not being used, that's nonsense.
A black background only helps you a bit. Once you run an app or start browsing the effect is mostly gone.
It will help in some way for sure, especially when you use the home screen a lot. But it won't be earth shattering...
Still, the amoled screen should save power in most other situations as well when you look at the pic posted earlier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
irkan said:
you only see the empty half of the cup, and even the other full half that really exists, you deny it.
if you are not convinced that that is your personal opinion, but you have to into consideration the studies that has been shown how AMOLED is more suitable than TFT in some applications (including mobile)
Since you copied wikipedia, i will copy from it and other places
advantages of AMOLED:
1. Thin and light-weight (this allow the mobile phone to be thiner and more compact, and more "MOBILE").
2. Lower power consumption (in almost all the cases but white). this is an advantage not a disadvantage. noone is forcing you to not use white bg, but if you dont use it you will save MORE than usual power, either ways IMO the battery life consumption is better than TFT (even if you used white occasionally, and normally). I highly doubt that anyone would use full pure white screens all the times.
3. better viewing angle, not a biggie, but its better than TFT viewing angle so its an advantage.
4. High color contrast ratio (Black is Black) and the other colors look better and sharper, that is the real "true to life" color, not like TFT where black and other colors are "washed out" (washed out is not true to life btw )
5. High Ambient Contrast Ratio, in fact AMOLED are suppose to look better in ALL conditions including under sun-light, however that feature has been crippled somehow by the manufacturers cuz they added a reflective layer on top of it (to better protect the screen i suppose, not sure). its still +1 for AMOLED in general.
6. Fast response time, the LEDs response faster and better to moving pictures , yes faster than the response time or TFT, AMOLED response <50uS, TFT response 3000~30000uS, so if you wanna see a movie and there is someone very speedy is racing, you will see it blurry in the TFT (and this is different than, CPU power. this is the response time of the display).
7. wide temperature operation, AMOLED can work from
-40 ~85C while TFT from -20 ~70C (I doubt that this will be useful, but hey its an advantage over TFT)
8. Significantly higher Colour Gamut, AMOLED looks brighter, sharper and more visually pleasing when tested under constant color gamut using gray levels
overall, nothing is perfect, .. but its advantages, outweighs its disadvantages
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In response to your "advantages":
1) If AMOLED allows the phone to be thinner and more compact, how come the HD2 is thinner than the Desire?
2) You haven't explained how the HD2 can run a 35% bigger screen with a 12% smaller battery if it's screen requires more power in real-life usage.
3) Fair enough.
4) You're talking about AMOLED displays in theory. I'm talking about the specific implementation on the Desire (and Nexus One). I don't have a Desire to compare side-by-side with the HD2. However Neowin.net do have an iPhone to compare it with, and it doesn't compare well. http://www.neowin.net/news/nexus-one039s-amoled-screen-only-uses-16-bit-color
5) "+1 for AMOLED in general" is irrelevant when we're talking about the Desire specificially. Both the Desire and the HD2 are poor, although given how poor the HD2 is, maybe the Desire does sneak a point on this one.
6) The image response on the HD2 is fast enough for any delay to be un-noticeable. Anything better than un-noticeable is still no better in practice. If you think it's noticeable on the HD2, give me a link to a review or article to back up your claims.
7) I stop operating below -20C and above +35C, never mind my phone, so this point is utterly irrelevant.
8) Same comment as 4) above.
You're grasping on to the theory of AMOLED displays in general. I'm talking about the Desire specifically and how it stands up in real life against other phones for important things like power usage and colour reproduction.
Moandal said:
In response to your "advantages":
1) If AMOLED allows the phone to be thinner and more compact, how come the HD2 is thinner than the Desire?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come on, you came up with this kind of question?
The hardware is DIFFERENT, do you think ALL AMOLED devices should be this thin or that thin?
Moandal said:
2) You haven't explained how the HD2 can run a 35% bigger screen with a 12% smaller battery if it's screen requires more power in real-life usage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I don't think this would be an exact comparison. You simply cant, because the OS is different, the video driver is different, etc! Which one is more efficient? How do you measure real-life usage? The hardware is DIFFERENT.
You cant just factor the screen alone on this.
It would be meaningful if you come up with similar Android device that runs same level of OS but using LCD as the screen.
Moandal said:
You're grasping on to the theory of AMOLED displays in general. I'm talking about the Desire specifically and how it stands up in real life against other phones for important things like power usage and colour reproduction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please, don't bring this to a discussion about HD2 vs Desire!!!
This thread is intended to find out if "black background" could SAVE MORE BATTERY LIFE on HTC Desire.
*begging* ... please don't stir this discussion out of context.
gogol said:
This thread is intended to find out if "black background" could SAVE MORE BATTERY LIFE on HTC Desire.[/B]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does
Sure, but as I said, how big is the additional battery life saving?
If it is not that significant, then forget it.
10% would be nice ... Imagine average 10 hours battery life , +10% = 11 hours
Damn! I need my HTC Desire NOW!!
irkan said:
It does
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I was dating my ex, I always kept our text conversation open on my Note 4, and my Note 4's screen was set to never sleep/dim while plugged in. I had the screen on with our text messages for probably 8-10 hours a day for months.
Now her name, phone #, the keyboard, texting app, everything is burned into my Note 4 screen. It's really bad and noticeable in every app.
I tried running the screen burn-in fixer (that flashes different colors every 2-3 seconds) for over 18 hours and it did not seem to help the problem.
Does anybody know of a fix? Could I perhaps open a pure white screen for two days and hope that burns in?
There's really no fixing it. OLED screen burn-in is a brutal thing. If you're lucky, you might be able to get it replaced under a warranty.
The important thing to do is to learn from the experience. I mean that sincerely, and I hope it doesn't come across as at all condescending in tone. Going forward, if you get an OLED device, you'll want to make sure to avoid letting things like the status bar stay the same color for very long periods of time, and shorten the time before the screen shuts off.
---------- Post added at 03:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 AM ----------
Your idea to potentially resolve it with a pure white image for an extended time, as I understand, is generally effective with LCD technology, but not OLED.
To understand why running the screen burn-in fixer for 18 hours will not fix it, you must understand how OLED, and plasma display panels, and even old-school CRTs work.
All 3 display technologies have self-illuminating phosphors. OLED panels use organic LEDs. Plasma display panels use tiny cells filled with, well, plasma. CRTs use phosphors which are illuminated by being bombarded with electrons. These phosphors slowly degrade over the life of the display, and as they do so they grow dimmer over time. By the end of their long production run, CRT phosphors reached the point where they would not noticeably dim during a human lifetime. Plasma phosphors never did, which is why burn-in was possible on the very last Panasonic plasma TVs that were manufactured before the whole thing was scuttled by the nearly bankrupt company.
Now we come to OLEDs. OLEDs are still a very immature technology and the problem of phosphors dimming rapidly and having a short lifetime has not been solved. There is a reason why LG is purposely using white OLEDs with an overlaid color filter on their OLED TVs. Samsung attempted to make OLED TVs for mass production using RGB OLEDs but withdrew from the market while they worked to improve the effective lifetime of the OLEDs, especially the blue ones.
So what actually is burn-in? It's simple. If you leave something showing statically on the OLED panel forever, such as your text message window, the illuminated OLEDs will drastically dim relative to the ones which are dark. What you're seeing is uneven wear of your OLED panel. Some pixels are worn out a lot, others are mostly unused.
Now you understand why your burn-in fixer will not do anything. Because the burn-in fixer shows static, full screen colors, it will wear down all your OLED phosphors evenly. This will never fix burn-in because you have some which are worn down unevenly, so wearing all of them down more does nothing!
Some people have attempted clever solutions, like taking a color-inverted screenshot of their burn-in and displaying that for a long time to try and wear the non burned-in pixels more to match the wear on the burned-in ones. This may theoretically work, but you must leave this image displaying for as long as you displayed the original screen that caused the burn-in. In your case, since you left your ex's text window on the screen for months, you will need to display the color-inverted image for months to wear the non burned-in pixels enough to match the burned-in ones.
My point is that you should just throw your phone away and buy a new one. You have basically destroyed your phone's OLED panel, chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on. Turn the damn screen off when you're not using your phone!
Colton127 said:
Now her name, phone #, the keyboard, texting app, everything is burned into my Note 4 screen. It's really bad and noticeable in every app.
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This thread is now over a year old, and I don't know if you've thrown away the phone by now/had the screen replaced under a warranty as user Bicknasty suggested/something else, but here's a relatively simple solution I'm surprised no one else has mentioned:
While you can't actually get rid of AMOLED screen burn-in per se, you can certainly burn in other parts of the screen to the point where everything is burnt in about the same and the difference isn't really noticeable. You would do this by first pulling up the exact image that's burnt in (go to screen you had open for so much time that it burned in; you might want to take a screenshot and edit out all the dynamic elements of the user interface like the stuff on the notification bar and individual messages, so that you don't end up with those burnt in when you're done), then inverting the colors (you can find an option to do this in the settings application), and then leaving that image open 24/7 until the burn in of the inverted image has canceled out the original burn-in (you should check on this periodically by pulling up a white image that fills the screen). Remember, this won't technically get rid of the burn-in, but it'll make it impossible to notice. Good luck
I use an always on display like the s7s on my oneplus 3 (using the glance plus app). I keep it on even throughout the night. I've read about AMOLED burn in on the web. Is it something to worry about?
This is what the always on screen is like
I mean...Amoled burn in was a real thing on my GNexus and Nexus 6 so I'd expect it to come into play at some point.
ming3r said:
I mean...Amoled burn in was a real thing on my GNexus and Nexus 6 so I'd expect it to come into play at some point.
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Hmm
Approximately how much time did it take for it to be significantly visible??
neildalal said:
Hmm
Approximately how much time did it take for it to be significantly visible??
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Dude, it's nonsense, don't worry about it. Even if you were to somehow keep the phone for a decade, I don't think that it would matter much. I used to be all paranoid about it with my S3, and to this day it's something that I haven't noticed assuming it's even there.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
In the past 4 years I've owned 5 different phones, of which 4 were AMOLED and I didn't have burn in on any of them.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Burn in problems with amoled displays usually come in play after 2 to 3 years of usage. My old S3 has some solid burn in problems but they were only visible after a couple of years. After the S3 non of my phones had amoled displays unfortunately. Nexus 5 > Oneplus 2
I would not recommend that always on scheme you have.
I have owned several AMOLED phones since 2010 and not one of them has showed signs of burn-in, but I never had always on features running and would always use the lowest screen brightness possible for the situation at the time.
I had a Moto X 2014 and the navigationbar has burned in after only one year. I recommend you to stay away from apps like this and to use the capasative buttons
thrill1985 said:
I had a Moto X 2014 and the navigationbar has burned in after only one year. I recommend you to stay away from apps like this and to use the capasative buttons
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I had several amoled devices since the release of an amoled phone. I only had 1 burn in (nexus 6) which took about 6mos. on my s6, 6p and note 5 I don't have it yet. lol
don't worry about it. what irritates me on some amoled screen is the uneven hues.
Hmm i think its better not to use an always on display. Thanks everyone for your suggestions...
neildalal said:
I use an always on display like the s7s on my oneplus 3 (using the glance plus app). I keep it on even throughout the night. I've read about AMOLED burn in on the web. Is it something to worry about?
This is what the always on screen is like
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Click to collapse
It was a thing of past galaxy s and s2 used to have that now amoled technology has enhanced it no longer burns i had s4 with same image on it for over 3 hours it has no burn-ins :good:
just use your op3 as a normal lcd display worry about anything.
Nevertheless with ambient display and possibility to wake up by waving above detector I don't see the point of permanent display on, except if docked, but there too there are special features in Rom.
Envoyé de mon ONEPLUS A3003 en utilisant Tapatalk
Burn-in is definitely a 'thing'. I don't ever use screen on, but I had burn-in on my Note 3 after 3 years, where the notification bar is probably in various other places that were constantly on. It wasn't overly noticeable because the notification bar is pretty much always there.
Personally I wouldn't worry about it. If you find it burns in enough to bother you, buy and fit a new screen. :good:
Had a nexus 6 for a year and a half prior to this phone. No burn in at all...not even the nav bar.
I've had burn in with every amoled phone I've used, usually the top bar with the clock there is a definitive line where the screen is brighter.
LEDs fade over time, at different rates, depending on several factors including temperature and time they are lit. There may be ways to minimize this, but its true for all LEDs regardless what form factor they are in.
I've seen Android make advancements to make this better, from auto hiding the clock/status bar to changing the color of the status bar depending on the colors of the apps being used, using dark themes (which also helps with battery life). Honestly, I don't worry about screen burn in - what are the chances you are going to be using the same phone in 5 years? Hell, even 2 years? Chances are there will be scuff, dent, and wear marks on your phone before burn in becomes an issue, and by the time it does you will be looking at an upgrade anyways.
I never faced it in any AMOLED device I saw. My S3 from june 2012 has no burn at all, and also devices of friends with amoled are working great after years.
I have a slight burn-in on my old SGS2 on the upper screen bar. None on SGS4 mini, Nokia Lumia 735 or SGS5. But it definitely exists
"Burn in" is inherent to the technology, unless some of the naysayers think they know more than the manufacturers themselves, however how fast you get it is dependent on your usage, brightness and temperatures. Oleds degrade at varying rates depending on color, blue has the least lifespan. So areas with the whites or blues that are constantly lit will wear out the blue Oleds significantly faster than red or green giving you a color shift. It's more like a fade out than a "burn in". It's not like image retention on LCDs which is reversible. It's common on display models at BestBuy etc within like a month because they leave the screens on 24/7 at full brightness. A regular user probably won't see it until 2-3 years of usage. I've had 2 AMOLED phones in my family, a Galaxy S and an S4 and only noticed it on the S4 on its second year but was barely visible.
TLDR: Burn in is very real, however don't worry too much, unless you use you phone at max brightness 12+ hrs a day with the same image on the screen like a display model... Which you wouldn't.
Take burn in serious
Based on my first hand experience, burn in is a serious problem. I own a moto z and never used always-on function. Yet after only four months of routine usage, My device's display has turned considerably yellowish in showing white and neutral tones and also has a ghost of navigation bar which is more visible when showing blue tones.
The blue LEDs deteriorate much faster than the other LEDs, making the screen yellowish and show traces of what was on screen for long periods of time. Like the status and navigation bars.
there are some mods or ROMs that provide burn in protection by moving pixels slightly every few minutes i think.
dont know how well that works actually, just sharing.
Just got the US version, 64GB capacity... A warning to everyone that the phone is not 190g (6.7oz) as advertised on their website. I weighed it and it's actually 205g = 7.23oz (without sd card and without sim card).
I would never have thought to weigh the phone except that I noticed the phone being noticeably heavier (and more tiring to hold) compared to my Pixel 2 XL (at 175g). Before weighing it, I just couldn't believe that a supposed 15g (0.53oz) difference would be this noticeable -- so I weighed it to be sure.
I'm still deciding whether to keep it. I also haven't rooted it yet because I want to use it for a month or so to make sure there are no hardware issues where I may need to get a replacement.
UPDATE: The false advertisement is even worse. On the US Asus Store site where I purchased the phone, it's advertising the weight as 0.4lbs = 181grams, even less than the 190grams advertised on their general tech specs page.
Not only US version, but EU version too...
I weighed:
200.2g phone with one SIM card
216.8g phone with one SIM card and this silicone case https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32891428136.html
16.6g silicone case itself
Oh wow, not just the US version.
I'm trying to figure out why ~1oz extra feels so much heavier (and tiring to hold).... maybe the small increase in thickness and the change in weight distribution is making it more tiring to hold?
_jis_ said:
Not only US version, but EU version too...
I weighed:
200.2g phone with one SIM card
216.8g phone with one SIM card and this silicone case https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32891428136.html
16.6g silicone case itself
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even worse
Just found out that the false advertisement is even worse.
On the US Asus Store site where I purchased the phone, it's advertising the weight as 0.4lbs = 181grams, even less than the 190grams advertised on their general tech specs page.
Hmmm, doesn't glass make phones heavier? Asus has a gorilla glass 3 on the back and gorilla glass 6 on the front. (in addition to 5k mah battery). That contributes to the weigh of it. If the back was only plastic or even aluminum, it might be lighter. But i take the main OP point. Specs should be on point and not off from customers tests. (like weight). They should have advertised the original weight rather than making it look more appealing by reducing it on the specs lol.
PS: (I personally don't care much about weight since, well, I spend the entire day dealing with heavy objects and the phone should feel like a feather to me (if i ever end up buying it). Also I have never though about buying or not buying a phone basing my decision on the "weight" factor.) LOL
Aside from the weighting, @neo_lithic3K , have you experience any technical issues? Please do create a thread regarding that if you do find some. Thank you!
Yeah, I'd imagine glass and bigger battery would make it heavier. I agree that the weight isn't normally a major factor in my decisions. The only reason I noticed it is because, before buying, I was comparing dimensions of the Pixel 2 XL vs Zenfone 6 to make sure it's not too big... and I also happened to see the weight as well (and thought... ok 15g isn't much heavier).
I'm hoping that I'll get used to the increased weight.. but I think a difference between 'dealing with heavy objects' all day and holding a smartphone is that the way I hold my phone isn't the same I would hold/carry, eg, a hammer or a UPS package. With a smartphone, it's more in the fingers.... a bit of a delicate balance between having a firm grip but not dropping it and not accidentally touching the screen at wrong place. The phone is also thicker so I have to stretch and extend my finger muscles just a tad bit more to hold it firmly.
No other technical issues but I did notice some technical differences. I did notice decreased brightness when looking at the phone from a 45 degree angle compared to my Pixel 2 XL which was noticeably brighter. Not a dealbreaker of course. I also notice that the vibration seems weaker compared to the Pixel 2 XL to the point where I cant feel it in my jeans pocket, even with vibration on max.
jinkerz9430 said:
Hmmm, doesn't glass make phones heavier? Asus has a gorilla glass 3 on the back and gorilla glass 6 on the front. (in addition to 5k mah battery). That contributes to the weigh of it. If the back was only plastic or even aluminum, it might be lighter. But i take the main OP point. Specs should be on point and not off from customers tests. (like weight). They should have advertised the original weight rather than making it look more appealing by reducing it on the specs lol.
PS: (I personally don't care much about weight since, well, I spend the entire day dealing with heavy objects and the phone should feel like a feather to me (if i ever end up buying it). Also I have never though about buying or not buying a phone because basing my decision on the "weight" factor.) LOL
Aside from the weighting, @neo_lithic3K , have you experience any technical issues? Please do create a thread regarding that if you do find some. Thank you!
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neo_lithic3K said:
No other technical issues but I did notice some technical differences. I did notice decreased brightness when looking at the phone from a 45-degree angle compared to my Pixel 2 XL which was noticeably brighter. Not a dealbreaker of course. I also notice that the vibration seems weaker compared to the Pixel 2 XL to the point where I cant feel it in my jeans pocket, even with vibration on max.
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That's the downside of OLED screens vs IPS screens. IPS screens in some occasions are crispier than OLED screens. But certain angles do affect the overall brightness and visibility on IPS screens if compared with OLED, (in pixel 2 xl situation P.OLED). If there were only a way to create a screen with both worlds (a screen that wouldn't get a permanent burnt image and get crispy images and infinite contrast ration under normal circumstances, and high contrast ration under sunlight) boi that screen would be a beast!
hmmm vibration weaker. I wonder if we could change the vibration motor :3 . I feel like buying a broken zenfone 6 just to experiment with that. LOL
LOL that would be interesting... changing the motor out for a better one. Wishful thinking of course... but I was also wondering myself if it's possible to swap out the battery for a slightly lower capacity one. I'm never far from an outlet so I wouldn't mind getting a lower capacity battery if it makes the phone lighter....
LOL maybe in 10-20 years... technology would get to the point where we could get a screen with all those positives.
jinkerz9430 said:
That's the downside of OLED screens vs IPS screens. IPS screens in some occasions are crispier than OLED screens. But certain angles do affect the overall brightness and visibility on IPS screens if compared with OLED, (in pixel 2 xl situation P.OLED). If there were only a way to create a screen with both worlds (a screen that wouldn't get a permanent burnt image and get crispy images and infinite contrast ration under normal circumstances, and high contrast ration under sunlight) boi that screen would be a beast!
hmmm vibration weaker. I wonder if we could change the vibration motor :3 . I feel like buying a broken zenfone 6 just to experiment with that. LOL
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so this is something i discovered just now, using max brightness does not output max brightness it seems to be limited, if you go into device care management or whatever it's called and set the mode to high performance you have a choice to increase brightness if you set it to 10 it gets much brighter than max brightness, the difference is huge i don't believe it's a placebo the difference really is huge to me, white looks more white and colors seem to pop more.
Just be aware, the brighter you have your screen, the faster you will get screen burn...
Reducing brightness and the time the screen takes to turn off will mitigate this but the extra brightness will be petrol thrown on the fire...
This seems to affect Oled displays more than LCD's...
ultramag69 said:
Just be aware, the brighter you have your screen, the faster you will get screen burn...
Reducing brightness and the time the screen takes to turn off will mitigate this but the extra brightness will be petrol thrown on the fire...
This seems to affect Oled displays more than LCD's...
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why buy oled if you're not going to use it i have a sony af9 oled tv i have been using for nearly a year as a monitor for my pc and gaming i use max brightness all contrast enhancements turned all the way up i have no burnin i would never pay money for something and never useit thats like buying a glass phone and putting a plastic case around because you're afraid it breaks then why buy a glass phone? just buy a plastic one
zzcool said:
why buy oled if you're not going to use it i have a sony af9 oled tv i have been using for nearly a year as a monitor for my pc and gaming i use max brightness all contrast enhancements turned all the way up i have no burnin i would never pay money for something and never useit thats like buying a glass phone and putting a plastic case around because you're afraid it breaks then why buy a glass phone? just buy a plastic one
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Because I wanted a Note 10+ and they don't come in plastic? Also, I wouldn't want an LCD screen, but I don't want to burn in the AMOLED on this Note 10+. It's not about not using what you bought, it's about taking care of it. And I don't think Ultramag69 was telling you to not use your phone the way you want, they were merely pointing out that risk of burn in. It's called being helpful.
Mr. Orange 645 said:
Because I wanted a Note 10+ and they don't come in plastic? Also, I wouldn't want an LCD screen, but I don't want to burn in the AMOLED on this Note 10+. It's not about not using what you bought, it's about taking care of it. And I don't think Ultramag69 was telling you to not use your phone the way you want, they were merely pointing out that risk of burn in. It's called being helpful.
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yeah i understand that and i al thankful for it i just don't like the idea of limiting what you bought as it defeats the purpose of buying it in the first place, guess i hated the idea of having to limit something just to be safe
No harm, no foul...
As has been stated above, just an FYI to others who might not realise this...
Your device and you use as you like but if someone doesn't realise the consequences, this is a rather EXPENSIVE toy to destroy, albeit unknowingly and others may not have the $$$$ to replace or fix it...
In the end, I think that this enhaced brightness is a good thing to have available, just simply not all the time on
This is actually a good reminder about the high performance mode and the display getting brighter. I already know this setting is available, but I have never really used it. I just turned on high performance and my Note 9 display is brighter/whiter. Working outside a lot, this is a good thing. So I think I will be using high performance a lot on my Note 10+ once if finally arrives.
As far as not using a case on an all glass phone - sorry, but you will be breaking your phone sooner than later. That is your choice, but not a very wise choice IMHO. There are some really nice, thinner cases, that still offer protection, but don't "ruin" the phone. These phones are slippery glass without cases - destined to be broken often and easily without protection. Is what it is.
teegunn said:
This is actually a good reminder about the high performance mode and the display getting brighter. I already know this setting is available, but I have never really used it. I just turned on high performance and my Note 9 display is brighter/whiter. Working outside a lot, this is a good thing. So I think I will be using high performance a lot on my Note 10+ once if finally arrives.
As far as not using a case on an all glass phone - sorry, but you will be breaking your phone sooner than later. That is your choice, but not a very wise choice IMHO. There are some really nice, thinner cases, that still offer protection, but don't "ruin" the phone. These phones are slippery glass without cases - destined to be broken often and easily without protection. Is what it is.
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i've used glass phones since 2013 with no issues and no cases or displayprotectors, at the worst my xz1 ended up getting a displayscratch after a few years which was a first, i have never in my life shattered a phone in any way shape or form.
How are your eyes not melted yet? Max brightness on this phone is pretty intense LOL