Develop Bugs

A bit of engineering on the audio!

Hi all! I have a question that someone who knows about electronics may be able to answer. Now, I know that a regular 2.5mm to 3.5mm audio jack converter won't work for the BA. I also know that I could (theoretically) buy one that will work. However, I have a spare XDA2s handsfree kit I can tinker with.
I want my XDA2s to play through an FM transmitter in my car so I can listen to it on the car stereo (like an iTrip, but not iPod specific, and externally powered). I was thinking how I could do this by just cutting the adapter off the transmitter and replacing it with the one off the spare handsfree kit.
Then I had a lovely idea. What if, I could simply wire it up AFTER the microphone of the handsfree kit?!?! Would this mean I effectively have a proper car kit that I will be able to talk through using the car speakers and handsfree microphone.
This picture should explain:
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I think if this is possible, with a bit of tidying up it would work a treat!! However, I have no idea about electronics. Would it really be this simple?
-Mike

Just cut up some old headphones. Now confirmed that each earphone has 2 wires going to it inside the rubber tube. Will it be possible to solder these together or will the thin wires be too delicate?

Those wires are almost impossible to solder but it can be done. I use a car baby transmitter, it clips over the speaker on the phone no connections are made, and transmits to a spare channel on the radio, the car baby is rechargeable and very cheap.

those things look good, but I want good quality audio for music.
I posted the question on an electronics site. Here's the thread:
http://www.dutchforce.com/~eforum/index.php?s=4c56bb9fd73d3ad08a11a1b42ec4cc03&showtopic=4174
If this actually works I will have an amazing car kit for the price of an FM transmitter off ebay (about £5).
Fingers crossed!

mike freegan said:
Now, I know that a regular 2.5mm to 3.5mm audio jack converter won't work for the BA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is that ?
I only just got my XDA IIs and wasn't keen on buying an expensive 2.5mm to 3.5mm adaptor cable. All I did was bought a 2.5mm plug from an electronics store for $2 and got an old 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable I already had and cut one end off and put the 2.5mm plug on the end.
Works a treat in the car when I plug into the CD input on my stereo (3.5mm)
The only thing is that there is a little bit of "noise" on the line when the charger is also plugged in.

Why is that ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because HTC like to tease us. I already have the Jack from use with my Himalaya but for some reason the wiring in the BA is reversed.
If this works, I will be able to have voice conversatuine in my car through the speakers
Most english stereos don't have a line in btw or I would do it like you

I bouthg the stuff on ebay to do this. Hopefully I will start arriving before the end of the week. I will let y'all know how it goes.
£10 says it won't work

mike freegan said:
Just cut up some old headphones. Now confirmed that each earphone has 2 wires going to it inside the rubber tube. Will it be possible to solder these together or will the thin wires be too delicate?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The wires are a bit difficult to solder, but it is not really difficult and it should work. Did something similar, by rplacing those terrible earpieces with something decent. The wires are color coded, so that left and right channels are easy to find.
You can also open the mic-piece (pry open the two end rings and it falls apart) and solder directly on the board.

[email protected] said:
You can also open the mic-piece (pry open the two end rings and it falls apart) and solder directly on the board.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like a pretty good idea...it shouldn't be that hard. Chip quik the old one off, solder on a new one that fits. Has anyone checked out how the default connector is soldered/mounted? I haven't even taken my BA apart yet, only had it a week or so, it looks like I will have to invest in a set of torx bits though. It would be great to solder on a standard stereo connector so I can plug in whatever I want, I don't see myself ever using the hands-free microphone.
edit:
I just pulled my BA apart and checked out the audio connector... It's some kind of SMD connector with 10 pins, only 4 of them seemed to be soldered down though. I searched Digikey for the part and couldn't find an exact replacement, in fact I couldn't find any audio connectors that had stereo and a microphone pin. I'm sure it would be easy to adapt a 3.5mm jack onto the board though.
Oh well... Not sure which pin goes to what, I guess an ohm meter would yeild which one is ground, but one would need to stick some vector wire onto the connections and check it with a scope while playing an MP3 or something to find out which ones were the stereo and the mic.
Damn backup battery... After I got it back together all of my settings were gone! Oh well, only had AIM, VLC player, and PHMregedit installed.

I just pulled my BA apart
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HAHA theres always one
Well, my FM transmitter arrived and works great with my laptop!! I also ordered a 3.5mm stereo extension cable off ebay. What I'm gunna do is attatch that to the hands free kit instead and then plug the FM transmitter into that. That way I avoid potentially destroying the transmitter as I won't have to cut that at all. Also, I will be able to use the transmitter on other stuff afterwards
Just waiting for my extention off ebay now. Should come tomorrow.

This is really difficult. I got everything here ready. Cut the earpices off, but couldn't get any sound. Even if I try and put the original earpieces back on I can't get sound. I haven't tried to solder them yet. AAARGH this is annoying!!! :evil:

PROJECT IS A SUCCESS!!
I soldered directly onto the circuitboard in the microphone!! It was really easy!
Now after the microphone, instead of crappy handsfree earphones, I have a 3.5mm socket where I can plug in my wireless FM transmitter, good headphone or connect to my tv/stereo!
In my car, I can play full quality music through the radio via the FM transmitter. When I get a call, it interrupts the music and the phonecall comes through my car stereo perfectly. There is no echo on either end of the call
Microsoft voice command makes playing songs easy! Better than any iPod. I just ask for the band I want and it plays it. No fumbling with buttons! Also, Media Player 10 with album art looks great on my dashboard!
Watching movies in the car on my XDA2s is awesome too. You can actually hear them now the sound is through the car stereo, so no need for a DVD player

if anyone wants any cheap brand new original xda2s head phones i have got them for sale for £11.98 inc p&p (UK) will ship international for extra
here is the link
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/XDA-EXTRAS_XDA2s-Accessories_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQftidZ2QQtZkm

cool, congrats... ;o)))
I'm thinking about this for a long time, but i'd rather buy a female 3,5mm cable plug and cut off earpieces 2 cms after mic housing. those two wires goes then into the female 3,5mm plug.
then you can stick in any headphones, transmitter, connector reduction, etc. and you have the whole headset functionality + hq stereo output.
buzz

but i'd rather buy a female 3,5mm cable plug and cut off earpieces 2 cms after mic housing. those two wires goes then into the female 3,5mm plug.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That Is what I did! I tried cutting after the mic, but it doesn't work. I think the wires were too thin, so I soldered my female 3.5mm plug to the chip board. It works a treat!
It looks really tidy! I had to make the hole in the plastic microphone case bigger, but there is no visible soldering. The wires are tied up so my car looks tidier.

That looks well tidy!
So let me understand what's going on here.
You plug the handsfree headset into the XDA as per usual:
XDA <----->mic<---->3.5mm Jack<---->FM Transmitter
Where does the mic sit so that it can clearly pickup your voice?
Also, I take it u still have to be able to reach the XDA in ya car so that you can trigger Voice Command?
Soz for the noob questions; just got my QTek 2020i yesterday and already starting to look at ways to "mod" it
I'm a .NET developer and one of the reasons I bought this was so that I could have a play with writting some media apps for in car use so what you've done here really interests me.
Cheers
Wayne

Does anyone know which of the three bands does what on the jack plug? (which is the left audio, right audio etc)

XDA <----->mic<---->3.5mm Jack<---->FM Transmitter
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
Where does the mic sit so that it can clearly pickup your voice?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Erm, well I have my XDA2s is in a holder stuck onto the windscreen. The microphone just hangs about 2 feet from my mouth. It works amazingly! My car is quiet inside but even the little engine noise doesn't seem to interfere. I'm thinking of making a case for all the wires and stuff.
Yeh, I still have to press a button to activate voice command, but it's still easier than fumbling with an mp3 player. Also, I can convince gullible girls that my car is talking to me
All in all, It cost £19 to build the whole car kit.

Fantastic bit of work, looking to do something like this myself!
I do have one question though......
As you are using an FM transmitter, imagine you are tootling through town and you get a phone call, you answer it, you chat happily away, several other people are listening to (probably half) of the conversation on their car radios, office radios and maybe even store PA systems!
Or have I completely got hold of the wrong end of the stick?!?
Cheers

HAHA no you're completely right :lol:
I was worried about that, but then I thought that a) they'll only be able to hear half of the conversation and b) I don't really have anything worth listening to
I think that the transmitter is on some odd frequencies. It has a choice of 4, so I use 107.1fm I know theres no local radio on that frequency, and shops aren't allowed to sell these transmitters, so the odds of anyone hearing my conversations are really slim.
If my stereo had line in it would be a hell of alot better, but it doesn't. If I ever get one that does, I can just use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm jack instead of the transmitter

adapter for sound *in*?

Hi all!
For sound out, there are adapters (I already have one), which convert from that custom 2.5" jack to a standard 3.5" - which even let the built in microphone active. OK.
But is there any adapter for the opposite? Converting the microphone / sound in part of that custom 2.5" to an e.g. 3.5" - so that some standard microphone or some other sound pickup could be attached?
Wether built in speaker would be left active or not isn't relevant for me.
Background: I have one of those programs for tuning musical instruments. It works fine with the built in mic in relatively silent rooms and for acoustic instruments. But imagine beeing on stage between two songs while the crowd is cheering!
If no such accessory is available: I would spend some extra Euros for a second hands free thing, cut off the side with the 2.5" plug and tinker a 3.5" on the open end.
But will this work - or have I to include some resistors or such?
Thanks, greetings
Manfred

There are such adapter on sales
http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=113967&tab=0
As for the issue of resister, I don't think you will be needing any. I've no experience on electric musical instruments, but a microphone is a essentially an active resistor/capacitor that convert sounds to resistance/capacitance-variation and hence electric signals. It does not produce any form of voltage itself (eg. you do not need battery for microphone).
Hence, it depends on your musical instruments. If you were to get the adaptor above, perform a voltage test on all 6 combinations (of the 3 contacts) to make sure your instruments does not produce any form of voltage/current. If it does not produce any form of voltage, you ought to be safe for a direct plug-in.

(oops, did I mix up " with mm in my initial post )
Are you using this adaptor yourself? With a Prophet? Does it work?
Not to appear nagging, but there are three facts that make me doubt:
- the description there tells me, that it "converts the standard 2.5mm three conductor jack"
- which can also be seen on the "larger image" (those pictures at expansys often are near causing eye cancer >;-) ), where the plug has *three* contacts
- description also tells us, the adaptor converts to a "3.5mm Mono Headphone Jack".
Well, the jack of Prophet has *four* contacts, and sound out comes in *stereo*. I guess that: tip and first ring are - stereo - out; 2nd ring is mic in; last "ring" obviously is ground. This I take from the fact, that my adaptor for standard 2.5mm to standard 3.5mm stereo earphones really delivers stereo out, but the internal mic is still working.
So I also guess, that this adaptor here has e.g. *mono* out on tip, mic in on 1st ring - and ground on third and last ring - which also would lead to connecting Prophet's mic to ground.
Or am I totally wrong here?
The question about resistors (and such) comes from looking at
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Connectors
(but that's Wallaby and Himalaya wiring, and with the latter there's also an extra (5th!) "outer sleeve" connector); but you can see in the drawing there, that there are a diode and three capacitors between mic and ground, and serially a resistor (but all without values).
So I fear, that just connecting a (passive) guitar pickup won't deliver satisfying results.

Hmm. didn't notice that one is a mono output. Anyway, can't really find one with mic and headphone out for streo (actually, gave up searching). I guess there aren't enough market for people pluging in their own mic.
As for the diagram, it looks like that, for the micrphone, the circular wiring thing is an inductor, not a resistor, since it is marked as L1. From what it seems, it looks like those capacitors and inductor is there to bias the circuit such that the mic is to be in the right impedance to pickup speech. That is more to "adjust" the mic such that it will gives the correct values (probably due to its small size?). So, if you were to plugin in your instruments directly, the result may not be that good. But probably it will. You may need to tune your software to adjust for this?
As for the z-diode there, it is a mystery to me. Can't think of anything useful for it, except to ensure the mic-in is always >= 0 (greater or equals to zero).

Well, first of all: thanks a lot for your answers!!
I also gave up searching before posting here; also searched for a separate 4-ring 2.5mm plug; but before investing in a second headset just to get that plug, I thought I'd ask here ...
Inductors, resistors et all ... it's been way too long since my physics intensive course on grammar school ...
Your thoughts sound logical.
So I'll get me the headset for the plug and tinker an adaptor myself - without any extra inductors or capacitors. Will see how it works - if not, well, I'll come back here again to ask for the values of them ... and tinker along ;-)

I build an adapter on my own out of the standard hands free headphone which was included in delivery.Unfortuately I had to destroy the case a bit I just made a kabel with a 3,5 mm jack and soldered it on the circuit board and bridged the build in mikrophone.Now I am able to connect a stand alone microphone to my Prophet.
Cheers

you can order one @ http://mobile.brando.com.hk/

@ Repose: you mean the handsfree headphone? I already ordered one at expansys
@ colida: that's another idea, keeping the circuit board. Such, all capacitors etc. are in place ... maybe just looks a bit ugly, you really have to break that little housing.

Car System with NOTE

I want to make the beast (aka note) the centre of entertainment/info in my car.
The problem: My car has no aux input.
Solution: FM Transmitter.
Now I tried a few cheapo fm transmitters, and they all had horrible sound connection. The transmission was fine but something was wrong. I pretty much gave up on this idea until I tried my brother's fm transmitter. It was crystal, however it had long cables which dangled over the driver -not ideal. Also, his one was from a good company and cost $120 -yikes.
Anyways, just the other day I saw my friends set-up. All he had was this:
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Which can be bought off ebay for ~$15, or even cheaper from other sources.
It is the perfect companion, since the rigid arm holds the phone just firm enough. It cleanly connects to fm. And charges it simultaneously.
Here's one for example: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FM-Trans...Accessories&hash=item20c69cb619#ht_3654wt_905
After looking for it for many hours, I can't find a suitable one for androids.
For once, I am jelly over Apple's monopoly of its proprietary connector.
Any good solutions you guys know of?

Why would you bother, just buy radio with aux and a stand.

dawids2k8 said:
Why would you bother, just buy radio with aux and a stand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, this was your first post on xda, I'm honored.
The thing is, I'm not planning on keeping this car for too many years... so a new head-unit will be a little pointless and expensive. Another thing, there is a separate display unit which pairs with the headunit...so removing it will stuff that up (which is handy for quick time and temperature).
It plays CD's but I don't have any cd's...they're all digital media.
I know I'm not the only one with an Android phone who has this problem, so a solution is out there.
Anyways, I found these solutions on ebay:
1) Bought, tested, its useless. Cables float everywhere. Costs ~$5.
Picture: http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab314/youkeshu/youkeshu-7/AA404_5-ALL.jpg
2)Then I found this one, costs ~$11, also suffers from the same noise distortion. Again cables galore!
Picture: http://cdn1.sellerimage.com/cdn2/120802/9e/78/f4/fmt-uni023_1_cc.jpg
3) I found this. Its just like the first crappy one. This one I haven't bought and tested, it may actually work well. But again cables galore!
Picture: http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab238/ebay510/home and garden/CBA00031-1.jpg
4) Okay I found this a working solution. The seller contacted me said it doesn't have the noise problem like the other options and backs it up with a full refund. Sad part is it costs ~$45...and what makes it worse is that the cables are still hanging about but at least not as much as the solutions prior to this.
Picture: http://gomadic.us/imgs-prod/fmt/samsung-galaxy-2-car-auto-charger-fm-transmitter.jpg

I finally found a (2yo?) thread in Google where they were discussing the same thing for the original Droid.
Anyways, I found a link to it on Amazon but it was discontinued.
Luckily enough, it was "related" to another product which led me to find this:
http://www.amazon.com/GOgroove-Flex...?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1339419456&sr=1-39
Same as the iPhone dock, only costs double the price. Instead of Apple connector, its a microUSB.
edit:
Hold on, found this. Same product (moreless) but $18
http://www.amazon.com/Accessory-Pow...?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1339419702&sr=1-19
edit:
Okay now its pouring in, found an even cheaper one ($13) lol.
http://www.amazon.com/GSI-Dock-Moun...-Smartphones/dp/B004006L7W/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_2

Okay, so there was more to this story than I thought. Wondering how I couldn't find any in the sea of thousands of other (mostly iphone) fm transmitters.
Anyways, back on ebay and finally found this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/17083475...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_3398wt_1270
Same as the other ones (~$20) but ships Internationally so anyone can get a hold of it.
It looks to be too small to fit the beast, and the seller hasn't responded back to my message.
But another seller has.
And no, the clamps maximum width is 80mm. We need at least 83mm, or ~90mm (comfortably) to clamp the note. But I have good news from the seller:
"But we will list another item which will fit for your Samsung NOTE,
Please come back to our shop 10 days later,or I can notice you when we list the item."
"Ok,I will let you know when we get new model.
Please don't worry,we have professional Technician?"
I'll keep this thread updated once I get my hands on it.
(ps I broke my windshield mount the other day, so hopefully 2-angry-birds-1-stone)

just to let u know, transmitters/holders that plugs into the cigarette lighter last a week max.
once the rubber that that goes into the cigarette light wears out, its all over, it wont stay up.

werks said:
just to let u know, transmitters/holders that plugs into the cigarette lighter last a week max.
once the rubber that that goes into the cigarette light wears out, its all over, it wont stay up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input.
I'm going to try anyway and give a review. It shouldn't cost much $15-$30 so the burden wouldn't be great.
And if it does fall apart, I'm planning on modifying it so it becomes a windshield mount.
That way I can have eyes on the road, and glanceable navigation... while having music from car speakers and hands-free phone function. The Ultimate Road Warrior! xD

this is what i would do if i werent to invest in a head unit.
www.firesport.com.au, buy a 2nd hand amp for cheap.
connect the amp to speakers.
connect the note directly to amp via cheapo 3.5mm to aux cable.
sound quality will be 10x better than transmitter lol.
migrate amp to next car

werks said:
this is what i would do if i werent to invest in a head unit.
www.firesport.com.au, buy a 2nd hand amp for cheap.
connect the amp to speakers.
connect the note directly to amp via cheapo 3.5mm to aux cable.
sound quality will be 10x better than transmitter lol.
migrate amp to next car
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
Of course the advantage of the ebay item is that its too easy to setup and can work in literally all cars. And the unit is still purposeful even if the fm isn't transmitting (ie phone holder + charger).
And you will definitely get x10 better sound via a wired solution.
I'm tempted to try both methods, not much to lose.
For now I just have to wait and see the item description when its up and report back.

The problem is the head unit in some cars, such as mine, are built in and cannot actually be changed our it's a big job. I was still using my Nokia N8 for music duties untill last week as it has a transmitter built in, but I've just gotten a Belkin from Amazon and it's superb. Still has to be plugged into the cigarette lighter but I don't mind that.

FlamingGoat said:
The problem is the head unit in some cars, such as mine, are built in and cannot actually be changed our it's a big job. I was still using my Nokia N8 for music duties untill last week as it has a transmitter built in, but I've just gotten a Belkin from Amazon and it's superb. Still has to be plugged into the cigarette lighter but I don't mind that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're into a bit of soldering, I have successfully added aux into older cassette deck stereos and my DAB stereo clock radio.
Basically, you open up the head unit/radio, google the chip numbers, find a datasheet. Only one of them will be some kind of mixer/preamp/processing chip. Find the pins that are the input L/R and ground. Then solder a 3.5mm stereo lead in. Close it up, plug in your phone, hey presto, AUX in! And better than any FM transmitter.
On the cassette radio, I just wired in to the cassette audio input and disconnected the tape motors. On my clock radio, I added a 2 pole 2 way switch to toggle between the tuner input and my phone. Later I'll add a bluetooth input to get rid of the slight noise hum when my phone is charging.

I bought one,but broken one.

china2834 said:
I bought one,but broken one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which one?
Can you link it for us.
I got a response from another seller, and one from local. They won't be getting it.
Its been 6 days since I received the email from one seller who said they will get NOTE compatible models (hopefully 90mm wide, so NOTE with case can also fit).
So there's another 4 days until he will respond back to me with the link, and then probably a week or two until I can test it.
Getting excited!

I know you said you wouldnt be keeping this car long but imho you would be much better served changing your head unit to one with bluetooth. You can find used ones in great condition shipped on ebay for$100. Installation time is under an hour. Trust me its worth it. My head (eclipse cd5030) automatically connects to my phone as soon as i start the car. No wires, just press play. And also, it has a usb plug for charging it.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

That's a good idea.
My options seem to be:
-FM transmitter/dock
-Change head unit for Bluetooth (break the overhead display and car cpu though)
-Change head unit for AUX in (break the overhead display and car cpu though)
-Install a low-powered/cheap amplifier with an AUX in.
Here's the inside of my car (though not so new, heh):
The head unit (ie CD slot and music controls) is located in the middle of the centre-console.
The actual display for it is displayed higher up on the centre-console.
The display is also wired into the car, if the engine runs out of power for a second, it locks and needs the password. Same thing if I jump start someone.
If I can install a new head-unit without stuffing up the relay going between the display and car cpu, I'd be all set... I wished I was more experienced in this field
Anyways, I've already decided on my next car, so I better start saving now:

I may be wrong buddy but i believe that your stock equipment is set up for an optional CD changer from the factory so there will be an option for an auxiliary input..
What you need to do is call an aftermarket car audio supplier and ask about a 3rd party wiring loom, more than likely they will have a plug in solution for it..

bazrippa said:
I may be wrong buddy but i believe that your stock equipment is set up for an optional CD changer from the factory so there will be an option for an auxiliary input..
What you need to do is call an aftermarket car audio supplier and ask about a 3rd party wiring loom, more than likely they will have a plug in solution for it..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with that,
Kangal,
Most of the car stereos have port to get AUX out behind. An audio shop can use this to get a 3.5 mm female port

A new quality brand like pioneer car stereo with aux on the front is about $45 NZ these days. Problem solved. And you never know your stereo may have line in in the back you could use.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app

I have the same problem as you.
My solution requires the following equipment :
1. Jabra SB600 car hands free
2. Original Samsung car dock for Note.
You basically pair your Note with Jabra via bluetooth and the Jabra transmits the audio via FM to your car radio. Simple, clean, no wire solution. Music and calls play via your car speakers and the Jabra's DSP does a fantastic job to cut out ambient noise in a moving car.
The sound quality is decent. Probably not the very best, but bearable. And more importantly, it gets the task done without any extra wires and stuff. Consider it a trade-off between ripping out / modding your car stereo and making no changes at all.
Though the Jabra's price may be a bit steep, it is a better bet if you consider it against replacing your stereo or spending the time (and taking the risk) on modding it.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app

I'm assuming that not a whole lot of people here are really into cars. I am really into modding my car and one aspect of that is audio. I love car audio and have a moderately nice system in my car. I can say that if you're looking for a good way to integrate your phone as your main source of media, then perhaps a new head unit would be a great upgrade for both your media and for your car.
Some people may be on a tight budget, and if so then the previously mentioned solutions may be the only options viable to you, but if you are willing to branch out and see what you can do with your ICE (in car entertainment), then you may find something that you might want to invest in.
So what are the options? You can use a wired fm transmitter, and as people have mentioned, you're dealing with wires and such. You also have wireless fm transmitters, which eliminates your wiring, and your results don't stray far from the wired transmitters in terms of sound quality. If you're willing to upgrade your headunit, then you have two options, single dins which is the base tier headunit. It has most, if not all, of the features your stock headunit has, and a few extras. If it is equipped with bluetooth, you can send/make calls from the headunit, but most single dins don't solve your audio needs in this way. What you want to look for is if it equipped with USB, so you can connect your phone via USB and play your music that way. Yes it does involve wiring, but there have been many ways to tie in a nice docking station for your phone to really make it appealing to many users. Double dins are almost always touchscreen type headunits and are a great way to upgrade your system. They have many more features that single dins will not have, such as GPS, movie viewing, etc. These types of headunits will follow single dins in that you will be wiring your phone via USB to source your music. I think there may be some double dins that are capable of bluetooth audio but I am not totally sure as mine does not have that feature as a 2011 model from Alpine.
W W W[dot]thebizzy[dot]com/technical_pages/thebizzy/audio/ipod2.jpg
Here is an example of how many users like to mount their phones/ipods/etc.
I will say that the benefit of a wired connection over a fm transmitted connection is that the sound quality is so much better. Music is much more crisp and clean with none of that distortion. Granted your overall sound quality will be determined by the quality of your speakers, but the differences from a USB connection and an fm transmitted connection are really noticeable.
So think about what your budget is and what you really want in your car audio system/integration. I went with a double din because the features are just spectacular. I do want to note though, that a headunit does not make your car system sound better, you need to upgrade your speakers, amps, subwoofers, etc. The main purpose for a new headunit is features. For me, I went with the double din because of benefits such as GPS, bluetooth (syncs my entire phonebook so I can just search for people whom I need to contact, shows recent call logs, auto answering for incoming calls), better interface when selecting music (it can utilize the entire interface of the ipod giving me access to movies, artists, playlists, genres, etc.), and overall ease of use.
So to conclude I'd recommend you find out what you want, and what your budget is, and start a project because my daily commute is worlds better than what it used to be because I made my upgrade happen. If you have any questions about ICE then feel free to ask.

SWC command repeat issue (VW CAN-BUS)

Hi, i hope this is the right forum to post my problem.
I have brought up this issue before, but would like to use the new layout to post again.
I'm still having issues with the SWC controls sending a repeat signal (3 repeats) every time one of the SWC buttons are pressed. I have tried apps like CarService and assigned a delay to the key press, but it does not seem to have any effect.
Has anyone had this issue before and how was it resolved? Is this a know issue or am i not setting it up correctly...

does this happen all the time or just during / short time after startup?

Hi @darkalex, this is a continues problem and is not affected by startup or uptime. I have kept my MCU and firmware updated with the hope that a update would fix it.

@kvantum had a similar problem with his SWC.
Posted in: Old Q&A-Thread - This Thread will be split into multiple KB-Thread soon Post #1868
"SWC and CANBUS
Ok so I've been dealing with a problem for some time, but my seller is now stumped, apparently involving an engineer at this point.
Wondering if anyone else experienced the same - I can't be the only one.
I have a KLYDE unit made for a mazda CX-5, and the SWC controls are... strange
Some buttons, when I hit them - get registered as 3 presses. So skipping a song skips 3. Hitting VOL+ increases by 3, etc. Pickup/hangup don't work.
The app for button re-mapping doesn't register any keypresses at all. CANBUS app sees me opening and closing a door. Seller confirmed I got the right decoder for my car, and all the settings are correct, including canbus type in Factory Settings.
Has anyone else experienced such behaviour?"

Oh yea, this issue drove me nuts
Seller/"engineer" couldn't figure it out. I ended up fixing it myself. The problem is with the canbus box.
To fix it you'll need to do some cable splicing.
There are 3 cables going from swc into the stereo - 2 data one return. One data for media and one for Bluetooth controls. You may have 1 data 1 return. It depends on the car.
Each button represents different resistor value. Stereo monitors this resistor value to determine if a button is pressed and which one, depending on resistance read. This is what's supposed to happen with that button learning utility in settings. You may have noticed that it's useless right now.
So, these cables are currently going into the canbus box, which interprets the resistor values and sends a command to android via serial interface, and it does send 3 signals (I monitored the serial port).
The stereo itself has the input cables necessary to interpret the resistor values itself without canbus unit.
My stereo unit has a schematic on top, and those cables are called Key1 & Key2 for data and "Steering wheel ground" for return.
In my case the data wires were just hanging loose, and steering wheel ground was connected to regular ground.
So, I had to figure out which cables to cut going into the canbus box. I happened to have a schematic for my car, but there are ways to figure it out without it. Feel free to post picture of your canbus box, one of the top and one of the cable connector, bonus if you got the full cable connector pic as well. I can help you figure it out.
So, what I've done is cut those cables away from canbus box and connected them directly to stereo. Now all buttons behave properly, and the button learning utility works as well. And since the canbus box is still connected, the door open indicator still works as well.
Also I bought a reverse camera which wouldn't turn on when in reverse gear. I managed to fix that by splicing cables as well.
I only got one picture of the actual work I did.
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I added some connectors so I could easily switch back if I had to, but I never did because everything works great now.
So, if you decide to go through with all of this, feel free to ask questions. Be as detailed as possible describing your set up if it looks different than mine, take lots of pictures, I'll try to help as much as I can.
PS Oh hey, new layout!

Thanks so much @kvantum, this is really awesome news and thanks for the explanation. I'm going to try this out on Saturday and hopefully i wouldn't have to bug you to much.
PS: I'm not able to see the picture you added, but i'm sure i'll manage.
I'll take your advise and document the mod and add to the forum later on, if successful.
I really appreciate the reply and i hope this will reach others that was struggling with this issue.
My specs for reference:
Vehicle: 2010 VW Jetta 5 1.4TSI DSG
Head Unit: KGL

Can you see the picture now?
And I have a correction to make. Looking at the image, I'm realizing that "steering wheel ground" was just going to regular ground.
So on the car end I didn't terminate that cable anywhere. On the stereo end that cable was already spliced into ground (you can see the bundle spliced under my nail in the photo above)

I can see you picture now, thanks!
I have taken some pictures of my setup, but not sure how to upload them (should i upload them somewhere and then post the link or how do you embed them?)
My Key1 & Key2 wires are also hanging loose so i suppose my mod will be similar to yours. I have the plug pinouts for both the head unit and the VW EOM square plug so it should not be to difficult to find the right wire to splice.
Once i figure out how to upload the pics i'll do so (Some guidance here will be appreciated)

Just to add, my CAN BUS does not show any of the car information. No indication of doors that are open and it also does not display any radio/music info in die instrument cluster...
Is there a trick to get this working or should it be working in the first place?
With all of these features not working i'm not actually certain what the Can Bus Box does in my setup.

I don't think there's a way to upload pictures to the forum. I use my web site. If you have dropbox you can put them into your public folder and embed or link. Include your schematic/pinouts too if you want me to confirm.
Canbus box might be responsible for things like dimming trigger when you turn headlights on or reverse camera trigger when in reverse gear. It wasn't in my case, but I've heard of others with such setup. Disconnect it and see if anything stops working.
I don't know of a simple way to get the canbus box to do more than what it does. Same as I don't know how to stop it from sending 3 signals instead of 1. They programmed it, and it's not worth trying to reverse engineer it.
I am however playing around with arduino canbus shield so I can have complete control of the information sent to the stereo. That'll take a while though as it's not really my priority right now.

The CANbus (controller area network bus) is a vehicle bus standard designed to allow devices to communicate with each other without the need of a host computer.
The HU don't come with a CAN bus they have a Decoder Box that tries to interpret signals on the bus for the HU. If you are having problems with the HU not responding correctly either you have the wrong decoder, the HU is set up for the wrong decoder, or that function is not available with aftermarket decoder boxes.
Maybe Contact Rambo @joying. When I original bought my unit they didn't support factory amps. I had to use a PAC decoder. Then he told me that they figured it out and he sent me a new decoder box. After replacing the PAC, all kinds of things started showing up.
What Vehicle, HU?

I have a 2014 Mazda CX-5 with a Klyde HU
My canbus decoder actually says CX-5 on it. Interesting to hear if there's a better decoder out there, I couldn't find anything

@kvantum As you can see i also have the Key1 & Key2 wires that are not connectet. If i understand correctly i must connect the (Brown) Key1 &Key2 wires directly to the CAN + and CAN - (Green) wires on the VW Quad Socket. How do i know which wire to connect to what pin. Eg Key1 -> CAN + and Key2 -> CAN - or vice versa?

Hear are the pictures of my wiring harness, CANBUS Decoder and VW Quadlock Socket as well as the wiring diagrams for the HU and the VW OEM Socket.
Wire to enable or disable CANBUS Power ON control of the HU:
CANBUS Decoder:
Head Unit Wiring Diagram:
Loose Wires [Brake, Amp-Ctrl, Key1 &Key2]:
VW OEM PLUG:
VW OEM PLUG Wiring Diagram:
VW Plug n Play socket:
Wiring Harness:

Hi have a 2010 VW Jetta 5 1.4TSI DSG and a HuiFei/Kei Ge Le [KGL] Head Unit

Ok, bad news.
Looks like your car doesn't supply direct wires to the steering wheel controls.
In my car, I had SWC wires going directly to the stereo.
In your case, SWC send signal to CANBUS, then stereo sniffs the signals from CANBUS, with no SWC cables to the stereo.
Unfortunately, there is no easy/cheap workaround for you. Sorry
Here are some other options I can think of:
-If you don't care about radio and stock mp3 player and instead use aftermarket MP3 player, there's CarService app that's now included with Malaysk's roms. On my request @KeiserSozeyFr included an option to ignore repeated button presses up to x ms (configurable).
Also available here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=53678587&postcount=1179
This was before I was able to figure out the wiring, but I believe the option is still there. Volume will still jump in 3s though.
-Try finding another decoder, or see if SWI-X by pac-audio can do the job
-See if your steering wheel has 2 or 3 cables coming from the SWC module before hitting canbus. To see if you can use them, use a multimeter to measure resistance between those cables (disconnect them first). When pressing a button, you should see changing resistance. If this is the case, then you'll need to connect those to key1+gnd (also key2 if there are 3 cables instead of 2)
-put arduino on the serial interface between canbus decoder and stereo. You can use it to catch the signals from decoder, drop the two repeats, and send single command on to the stereo.
Maybe someone else has better suggestions, but that's what I can think of.

Ah damn, thats unfortunate. Luckily i have not made any changes to the wiring as of yet, just as well.
Thanks for all your input! Much appreciated. I have tried CarService before, but i'll give the new ROM and CS a bash. Maybe just maybe it will work.
Hopefully someone else can assist, but the arduino option sounds like a fun project to explore. Any advise regarding the arduino circuit will be more than welcome.
It's been a while since I've last programmed something...

If you do decide to go the arduino way, I can help out.
It should be fairly simple, with maybe 20 lines of code total.
You can get mini arduino board from ali/ebay for under $5
I would also recommend getting some 2/4-pin male/female connector pairs so that you can easily switch between stock/modified wiring configurations.
Arduino technically has only one serial port, but there's a software serial library that you can use to turn digital pins into more serial ports
For wiring you'll need to cut the two serial cables(TX/RX) between stereo and canbus decoder. Plus you'll need to splice into power + ground to power the arduino(it can take 12V on the VIN pin)
Then serial cables going from canbus box get hooked up to one serial port, from stereo - to another.

I have been reading up on the Arduino option and it looks like most people use this Ardruino Board:
ARD UNO REV3
http://www.communica.co.za/Catalog/Details/P1424521842
and this shield:
CAN-Bus Shield Microchip MCP2515 CAN controller with MCP2551 CAN transceiver
http://www.communica.co.za/Catalog/Details/P1865739722
The CAN- and CAN+ connect to the shield and then the shield connects to the ardruino board via the seriel port or pin connections ? Arduino is then connects to a pc via USB to display output and write the code. The interpreted code is then sent via the serial connection/pins to the Rx and Tx inputs on the Head Unit?
Do you by chance know at what bus speed my VW CANBUS runs?
I'm planning to visit the electronics shop on Friday, if it doesn't work out to be to expensive to build. Otherwise i'll try online shops, but will need to figure out exactly what i'll need first.
Have you managed to finish and test your Arduino setup and get it working 100%

@Hein3G I have a 2012 Jetta with a factory amp. The PAC decoder did not allow for SWC but it did turn on the factory Amp. Which is why I harassed Rambo at Joying until they figured out how to turn the Amp on through the CANbus decoder. It cost me $20 in shipping to have them send me the new decoder. It was well worth it.
In the harness they sent me the Key1 and Key2 wires went to the decoder box plug they are not loose. The only loose wires are the Blue power ant., Orange/black ext amp, and the red ACC. My decoder says:
(VW-XZM-03) 18/09/15
For Passat, Sagitar, Tigu, Golf6, Touran, Magotan, Jetta
software: V2.3A (JY)
The decoder they sent you may be the wrong one or outdated. I would contact them before doing anything complicated or expensive.

ATOTO A6 installation in Audi TT RS

After a year of putting up with the outdated RNS-E in my 2010 TT RS and being disappointed with the pricing and capability of the “name” brands having GPS capability, I decided to go for an Android Head Unit from ATOTO. I was encouraged by some of the on-line reviews I'd seen and when the box arrived I could see that the ATOTO A6 was a nicely made item. I bench-tested the unit using a 12V power source and found everything claimed for the unit to be accurate. I used this opportunity to download some offline maps to give me coverage away from WiFi and mobile phone coverage. I installed it in the Audi, which has a Bose sound system, and am very pleased with the result, with much better sound than the original Audi RNS-E unit. The ATOTO owner's manual is well-written in excellent English, and easy to understand. User support for registered users is also excellent.
What’s in the Box:
It came with the Head Unit, microphone, Wi-Fi antenna, GPS antenna, microphone, 2x USB cables, mounting brackets, plastic trim surrounds, screen protectors (2x), a unit power plug with bare wires, and a double ISO power plug to suit my vehicle (a 2010 Audi TT RS).
What else you need (Connects2 products are branded AerPro in Australia)
Connects2: CTSAD002.2 or AerPro: CHAD3C Audi Can-Bus Steering Wheel Control Interface for cars with full Bose systems.
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Connects2: CT27AA56 or AerPro: APA60 Double Fakra Antenna Adapter
Connects2: CTMULTILEAD.2 or AerPro: APUNIPL2 Patch Lead (for self-learn of steering wheel controls)
Connects2: CT23AU05 or AerPro: FP8022 and FP953000 Facia kit and mounting cradle
ATOTO supplied ISO power Harness for Audi/VW
ATOTO supplied Bare wires Power Harness if you need to fabricate your own
Removing the RNS-E:
Make sure you get a proper set of HU removal keys. I tried some generic ones without success. The Audi/VW/Skoda ones worked perfectly.
You can fit three of the keys into their slots in the RNS-E, but the fourth requires the HU to be powered on so the screen can fold out of the way to allow access. Place a folded towel over the console to prevent damage to the surface during handling.
Once you’ve released the HU, power the HU down or pull the fourth key out quickly before the screen closes automatically. Release the keys by pressing on the spring-loaded retainers on the sides of the HU.
Here’s what’s left after you remove the HU and release the Audi harnesses. Please note this is an Australian delivered car and it does not have a seatbelt warning light to be removed from the original facia – just a blanking plate which is transferred to the new facia.
Installing the Facia Trim – just guide it in, allowing the plastic retainer pieces to bend, then snap into place
Inserting the cradle – guide it in, keeping it square to the facia piece - I had to Dremel the plastic in the corners of the Audi liner to allow easier insertion of the cradle, which was very tight.
Securing the Cradle – use a screwdriver to press as many of the triangular cut-outs into the liner as you can
Attach the mounting plates that came with the facia kit to the sides of the HU. I mounted the plates as far forward as the adjustment allowed to push the HU back as far as possible. There are tiny tabs that fit into slots in the plate, to give positive adjustment. The ATOTO mounting brackets supplied with the HU are not suitable for use with the Connects2 facia.
Assembling the harness and adapters to the HU – here’s what the HU looks like from behind.
 
Connecting the harnesses and adapter to the HU
Connecting the assembly to the car
The Quadlock connector is the main connection between the HU and the car. The other connections that must be made to the car are:
The aerial Fakra connector adapter to the car’s Fakra connector
Don’t plug the Steering Wheel Control plug into the HU – this is used only when using an aftermarket IR SWC. If plugged in, it prevents operation of the car’s original SWC.
USB and WiFi receivers can be placed in the glovebox in the area to be vacated by the music interface.
The 2x USB cables (one fast charge and one Easy Connect) can also be placed in this area.
There is one car connection that will not be used – this is the 32-pin connector that connects to the top left-hand corner of the rear of the RNS-E. It remains in the space behind the HU.
Booting the Unit up
When I first connected the unit to the car and powered it up, everything worked, except the sound! Disappointing, but I knew the sound worked, from my prior bench-testing. The radio and music displays showed that sound was happening in the HU, but not getting through to the amp. First reaction was to check the blue wire connection that tells the amp to power up. This was connected properly. Following this was a period of consternation and much re-reading of instructions, to no avail. After some serious thinking, I connected my VAG-COM and found that the code to allow an amplifier switch-on by remote wire was not enabled. When I re-coded to do this, all was well. Your vehicle, if optioned the same as mine, may or may not encounter this issue. Advice received from Aerpro was that they had not encountered this issue before, but it was now noted in their notes for installers.
Finishing off
With everything singing and dancing, all that remained was to load some offline maps and music from a smartphone or a WiFi connection, and allow blue-tooth phone connection, and to explore the Android capabilities of the HU. The HU is a good match (in my non-audiophile opinion) for the Bose system and I believe the sound quality is improved over the RNS-E. The HU has a broad range of capabilities, effectively being an Android phone hard-wired to your car, documented very well in the owner’s manual, as well as being well served by ATOTO Customer Support. At this stage, I’m extremely happy with my choice.

great post can I ask where you bought the unit from?

Hi
Mods won't let me post the link, but type "ATOTO A6" into EBay and you should find it...

Atoto A6
Thanks Rob,
I have sent you a PM

h0ssman1 said:
great post can I ask where you bought the unit from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These can be bought from Amazon as well. There is lots of discussion in the android head unit sub forums. A6 pro is the newest unit.

Rob in Oz said:
After a year of putting up with the outdated RNS-E in my 2010 TT RS and being disappointed with the pricing and capability of the “name” brands having GPS capability, I decided to go for an Android Head Unit from ATOTO. I was encouraged by some of the on-line reviews I'd seen and when the box arrived I could see that the ATOTO A6 was a nicely made item. I bench-tested the unit using a 12V power source and found everything claimed for the unit to be accurate. I used this opportunity to download some offline maps to give me coverage away from WiFi and mobile phone coverage. I installed it in the Audi, which has a Bose sound system, and am very pleased with the result, with much better sound than the original Audi RNS-E unit. The ATOTO owner's manual is well-written in excellent English, and easy to understand. User support for registered users is also excellent.
What’s in the Box:
It came with the Head Unit, microphone, Wi-Fi antenna, GPS antenna, microphone, 2x USB cables, mounting brackets, plastic trim surrounds, screen protectors (2x), a unit power plug with bare wires, and a double ISO power plug to suit my vehicle (a 2010 Audi TT RS).
What else you need (Connects2 products are branded AerPro in Australia)
Connects2: CTSAD002.2 or AerPro: CHAD3C Audi Can-Bus Steering Wheel Control Interface for cars with full Bose systems.
 
Connects2: CT27AA56 or AerPro: APA60 Double Fakra Antenna Adapter
Connects2: CTMULTILEAD.2 or AerPro: APUNIPL2 Patch Lead (for self-learn of steering wheel controls)
Connects2: CT23AU05 or AerPro: FP8022 and FP953000 Facia kit and mounting cradle
ATOTO supplied ISO power Harness for Audi/VW
ATOTO supplied Bare wires Power Harness if you need to fabricate your own
Removing the RNS-E:
Make sure you get a proper set of HU removal keys. I tried some generic ones without success. The Audi/VW/Skoda ones worked perfectly.
You can fit three of the keys into their slots in the RNS-E, but the fourth requires the HU to be powered on so the screen can fold out of the way to allow access. Place a folded towel over the console to prevent damage to the surface during handling.
Once you’ve released the HU, power the HU down or pull the fourth key out quickly before the screen closes automatically. Release the keys by pressing on the spring-loaded retainers on the sides of the HU.
Here’s what’s left after you remove the HU and release the Audi harnesses. Please note this is an Australian delivered car and it does not have a seatbelt warning light to be removed from the original facia – just a blanking plate which is transferred to the new facia.
Installing the Facia Trim – just guide it in, allowing the plastic retainer pieces to bend, then snap into place
Inserting the cradle – guide it in, keeping it square to the facia piece - I had to Dremel the plastic in the corners of the Audi liner to allow easier insertion of the cradle, which was very tight.
Securing the Cradle – use a screwdriver to press as many of the triangular cut-outs into the liner as you can
Attach the mounting plates that came with the facia kit to the sides of the HU. I mounted the plates as far forward as the adjustment allowed to push the HU back as far as possible. There are tiny tabs that fit into slots in the plate, to give positive adjustment. The ATOTO mounting brackets supplied with the HU are not suitable for use with the Connects2 facia.
Assembling the harness and adapters to the HU – here’s what the HU looks like from behind.
 
Connecting the harnesses and adapter to the HU
Connecting the assembly to the car
The Quadlock connector is the main connection between the HU and the car. The other connections that must be made to the car are:
The aerial Fakra connector adapter to the car’s Fakra connector
Don’t plug the Steering Wheel Control plug into the HU – this is used only when using an aftermarket IR SWC. If plugged in, it prevents operation of the car’s original SWC.
USB and WiFi receivers can be placed in the glovebox in the area to be vacated by the music interface.
The 2x USB cables (one fast charge and one Easy Connect) can also be placed in this area.
There is one car connection that will not be used – this is the 32-pin connector that connects to the top left-hand corner of the rear of the RNS-E. It remains in the space behind the HU.
Booting the Unit up
When I first connected the unit to the car and powered it up, everything worked, except the sound! Disappointing, but I knew the sound worked, from my prior bench-testing. The radio and music displays showed that sound was happening in the HU, but not getting through to the amp. First reaction was to check the blue wire connection that tells the amp to power up. This was connected properly. Following this was a period of consternation and much re-reading of instructions, to no avail. After some serious thinking, I connected my VAG-COM and found that the code to allow an amplifier switch-on by remote wire was not enabled. When I re-coded to do this, all was well. Your vehicle, if optioned the same as mine, may or may not encounter this issue. Advice received from Aerpro was that they had not encountered this issue before, but it was now noted in their notes for installers.
Finishing off
With everything singing and dancing, all that remained was to load some offline maps and music from a smartphone or a WiFi connection, and allow blue-tooth phone connection, and to explore the Android capabilities of the HU. The HU is a good match (in my non-audiophile opinion) for the Bose system and I believe the sound quality is improved over the RNS-E. The HU has a broad range of capabilities, effectively being an Android phone hard-wired to your car, documented very well in the owner’s manual, as well as being well served by ATOTO Customer Support. At this stage, I’m extremely happy with my choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, awesome post, how did you connect the SWC wires. the connects2 comes with key1, key2 and gnd but how are they connected to the head unit so that it works

Hi do anybody knows where I can buy a atoto power harness at